From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #421 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, December 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 421 In this issue: -       RE: Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: moccs -       Re: MtMan-List: moccs -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: A book review / a must have book.] -       Re: [Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?]] -       MtMan-List: Winter Mocs -       MtMan-List: Moccasin & Foot (Arch Support?) -       MtMan-List: OT U.N. coming for your guns -       Re: MtMan-List: Winter Mocs -       RE: MtMan-List: Packs -       MtMan-List: 1831 Newspaper -       Re: MtMan-List: 1831 Newspaper -       Re: MtMan-List: Moccasin & Foot (Arch Support?) -       MtMan-List: Self Serving Commercial Promotion -       Re: MtMan-List: Self Serving Commercial Promotion -       Re: MtMan-List: Self Serving Commercial Promotion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 18:36:10 -0600 From: Farseer Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: moccs I've heard the term "epishmore" used to describe a horse blanket as well, but as to the spelling? Can't help there. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of R Lahti > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 4:43 AM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: moccs > > > George Noe wrote: > > > > In the following; I found the term "Aphisamores" > > What Is he refering to ??? > > George, > > Not claiming to be a horse person but I believe the term describes the > blanket or blankets that are used under the saddle to protect the > horse's back. Osborne Russell mentions laying a couple of them on the > ground and rolling up in his blanket next to a good fire to make it > through a very cold night. I think he spelled it differently with an "e" > as in "epishamor". I can't find it in his journal, (which I just got > through reading) my dictionary or the pc's dictionary so I am not sure > how it is spelled. Buy I am pretty sure it is a saddle blanket. I > remain..... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:02:21 EST From: DickSummers@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: moccs George: If you're looking for something interesting to read and print out to save, go to the Drudy website and look up terms and definitions compiled by Mr. Walt Hayward and another gentleman whose name I can't recall. You'll find a concise and enjoyable dictionary of the era we all respect. Dick Summers - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 7 Dec 99 21:44:35 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: A book review / a must have book.] Thanks Buck for the review, sounds like Santa will be bringing me another= gift, and thank you John for your comments, looks like I will have to go = to the book store this weekend. If you have to stay in when the weather is b= ad, why not read something worthwhile like Buck has mentioned and then add to= the library with that set of books John has told us about, can wait for the n= ew one. Later Concho Smith Locks Bank, PA. - ---------------------------------- "John L. Allen" wrote: Thanks for the kind words, Buck. Your recommendation and review made MY d= ay. And yes, I've written a bunch of other stuff--but most of it consists of fairly dry articles in professional journals, along with some textbooks a= nd atlases designed for college students. One thing that might be of interest is a 3-volume work on North American Exploration (University of Nebraska Press,1997) that covers exploration f= rom the first Norse contacts around 1000 AD down to the end of the 19th centu= ry. The third volume contains two lengthy chapters on the explorations of the= Canadian and American fur trade in the 19th century. I'm now in the finishing stages of a book on the explorations of the Rock= y Mountain fur trade from 1806 to 1845 (beginning with John Colter and concluding with the travels of John Charles Fremont, the "Pathfinder" who= was guided by former members of the fur trade). This is a logical "sequel= " to the Lewis and Clark book and will use pretty much the same techniques = for examining the mountain men's knowledge of western geography of the West, what kinds of maps they made, and how their geographical information got passed on to other Americans by the middle of the 1800s. Conventional historical "wisdom" is that the mountain men didn't impart much formal information. I disagree with that and have located a considerable number = of published maps and descriptive essays in geography books, travel narrativ= es, newspapers, magazines, government documents, etc. from the first half of = the 1800s that relied heavily on information from mountain men. Hopefully, th= e book will go to the publisher this coming spring and will be available ab= out a year after that. I'll keep the list posted on this since this is a book that will be direc= tly of interest to most of you. Thanks again for your review. John Dr. John L. Allen 21 Thomas Drive Storrs, CT 06268 860/487-1346 johnlallen@uconn.cted.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Buck To: Dean Rudy's "hist_list" ; American_Mountain_Men Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 10:06 AM Subject: MtMan-List: A book review / a must have book. > Members, > > Over the last few years we have seen a few members author several books= , tapes, etc. of which have been interviewed from time to time. We have a = few of these folks still with us and several have moved on to other lists for= one reason or another. > > One gentleman that is a regular on the Hist_list with wonderful references, great documented information and so on - is Dr. John L. Allen= =2E John is a student of Lewis & Clark and has traveled in their footsteps in= an attempt to experience these gentlemen's lives and the lives of the Corps = of Discovery members, as has several of us done over the years. > > Dr. Allen wrote a book about these gentlemen and their adventure, yet I= have never seen anything about this great resource book, well written, wi= th 47 maps and a wealth of information on this event. This is a "must" have= book for any reenacter's library that's involved in the development of la= nd west of the Mississippi, western travel, the fur trade or westward moveme= nt. > > The name of this book is: > "LEWIS AND CLARK AND THE IMAGE OF THE AMERICAN NORTHWEST" by John Loga= n Allen. > Dover Publications, Inc., New York # 0-486-26914-0 (pbk.) > > Originally published in 1975 and now the Dover edition, published 1991 = is a gem that I, myself have over looked for some unknown reason, now found = and feel that you too, should be made aware of this important information and= guide that follows these captains across this great country. > > This book focuses on Lewis and Clark's epic journey of 1804-1806, following the expedition over the Rocky Mountains to the coast with information on the maps, plants, wildlife, etc. - wait until you see the detail on these maps. > > This would be a great Christmas present, pick one up for that special person or for yourself (that's a must do). > > John have you written anything else, I hope this wasn't the only one, brother you did an excellent piece of work. I started reading your book l= ast night and had to be told to go to bed (like a kid), hope this short revie= w is with your approval, you should be very proud of this, I'm proud we the= folks on this list know you through this list. > > Thank you for making my day, this is great reading. > > Later, > Buck Conner > _________________________________ > Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html > Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ > AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html > _________________________________ > Aux Ailments de Pays! > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.ne= t > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html= > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 7 Dec 99 21:51:39 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?]] I wonder why you didn't get a response to the "Silver Haired Gentleman" c= rack or "old coot" slamp Dennis, he must have missed them but that's OK. --- "= I'm tellin'" --- . You do any good with Mrs. Jager in PA ?? Later Concho Smith Locks Bank, PA. deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) wrote: Concho Wrote: Why didn't you mention this at Thanksgiving when I was at your place,apparently more than one turkey at the table, right Dennis M. ? >>Concho, as much as I would like to chime in on this, I won't.. You see,= Buck is patiently waiting for a knife, and I don't wanna rile the ol' coot.. If you catch m= y drift.. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:37:50 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: MtMan-List: Winter Mocs Hello the List, And now another question, What do you use for Winter moccasins? I have 2 sets I use. The first is a set of side seams from vegetable tanned hide, just below knee height. I use wool liners, also cut in a side seam style, with an extra layer of wool blanketing under the sole. I've used these for about 4 years now, with great results. They've been in -15 degree weather and still served well. Finally this fall I added 2 more layers of wool blanketing under the sole, as the originals got packed down from much use. My other set is hair-in buffalo. They are wonderful, and I mainly use them for sleeping in during really cold weather. Looking forward to your replies, Allen Hall in Fort Hall country Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:35:54 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: Moccasin & Foot (Arch Support?) Would appreciate hearing modern and ancient camp's experiences (non-Indian trapper and/or American Indian). How do the arches hold up? knee strain? Did they make their own from a small piece of bunched-up sock wool sewn to buckskin? - ----------------------------------- from Michigan Territory - ----------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:47:12 -0700 From: "Ron Chamberlain" Subject: MtMan-List: OT U.N. coming for your guns U.N. coming for your guns Private groups, governments team up to restrict use, ownership of firearms http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19991207_xex_un_coming_yo.shtml cstmzd@ida.net Lewis Fork Free Trappers www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/trappers.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 19:57:35 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Mocs Allen Hall wrote: > > Hello the List, > > And now another question, > > What do you use for Winter moccasins? Allen, I have one pair of brain tanned elk in the pucker toe style with a leather and trade wool insert in the vamp. They come up about 8" or so and wrap part way. I wear wool socks inside blanket booties made like the pack liners with two layers of blanket on the bottom and one on the sides. I haven't experienced as cold a weather as you but they seem to do a good job of keeping my feet warm and dry. I put an extra layer of leather on the bottoms for wearability. Jon writes: Would appreciate hearing modern and ancient camp's experiences (non Indian trapper and/or American Indian). How do the arches hold up? knee strain? Did they make their own from a small piece of bunched-up sock wool sewn to buckskin? - ----------------------------------- from Michigan Territory - ----------------------------------- Jon, I don't think that was a consideration or a problem. Man evolved to walk without arch supports, many aboriginal peoples don't use arch supports and we probably do only because we walk on hard flat surfaces and eat way too many biscuits with butter and honey on them. I am up to 250 and after a couple days don't have any foot problems (arch). I make my mocs with enough leather on the bottom to ignore the rocks pretty much and so never get tender feet. I guess if a fella has a foot problem that keeps him from wearing moc's the answer is an unobtrusive insert with arch support. No one is going to know and I sure as hell don't care. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 16:48:19 +0000 From: rick_williams@byu.edu Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Packs On page 74 of Donald Jackson's Letters of the Lewis and Clark Expedition, is a list of items that Lewis thought would be essential for the expedition. Here he states wanting "Materials for making up various articles into portable packs 30 sheepskins taken off the animal whole without being split on the belly and dress'd only with lime to free them from the wool; or otherwise about the same quantity of Oil Cloth bags well painted" (Rawhide bags or painted oil cloth) "Raw Hide for pack strings" "Dress'd letter(leather) for Hoppus-Straps" "Other packing" (Parens mine) Jackson desribes the 'hoppus' straps may have been 'hoppas' an indian term for knapsack He also lists awls, saddler needles and theread as being taken later on page 90 we see a paid invoice for "107 yds of 7/8 brown linen 461/2 yds of 7/8 (Russia) Flanders Sheeting 10 yds 7/8 Country linen To making the brown linen into 8 tents, with Eyelet-holes, laps, &c. Thread &c. To making the Russia Sheeting into 45 Bags. Thread & Cord. 2 Gross of Hooks & Eyes Oiling of all the linen & sheeting numbering all the bags & Tents" I've speculated that the Russia sheeting must have been heavier than the brown linen else why would he not have it all made of the same matierial. I've also wondered about the 7/8. Again I've speculated that this was the width of loom woven cloth or 7/8 of a yard wide or 31.5 inches wide. A fairly standard width of cloth at the time. and two widths sewn together would be about 5 feet. Dividing the yardage up by the 8 tents would give you 40.125 feet per tent, which when two are sewn together is 2 5 by 10 ft sections held together with hook and eyes. (About the size of most diamond flies). One thing I don't understand is shy the Eyelet-holes? I always saw hook and eyes as external sewn on attachments. Any ideas? Also there is no mention of his receiving his "rawhide casings" just the Russsia sheeting bags. Regards Rick - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:24:43 -0700 From: "Sickler, Louis L" Subject: MtMan-List: 1831 Newspaper Ho the list, This on e-bay right now! Look under American Fur Company They're asking $10.00 now, auction closes in 5 days. NEW YORK AMERICAN, Aug.5, 1831. Short back page report FROM MISSOURI - The Steamboat Yellowstone arrives at St. Louis, from her trip up the Missouri - THE YELLOWSTONE IS OWNED BY THE AMERICAN FUR COMPANY, and left this place (St. Louis) on the 15th of April last, for the purpose of proceedings as far up as the mouth of the Yellowstone--2000 miles--CARRYING GOODS FOR THE INDIAN TRADE with which the Company annually supplies the traders in its employ--owing, however, to the low stage of the water in the Missouri, the Yellowstone was unable to proceed beyond Fort Tecumsch, the mouth of the little Missouri, 1,300 miles above St. Louis. Etc. THE YELLOWSTONE BRIUGHT DOWN A FULL CARGO OF BUFFALO ROBES, FURS AND PELTRIES, BESIDES 10,000 POUNDS OF BUFFALO TONOGUES. Report from Arkansas on the prospects of a war between the Osages and Pawnees. Complete 4 page issue in fine condition with foxing spots. Various edge tears, not touching the contents listed. Add $3.50 for postage. Check out my other newspaper auctions. This isn't in my realm of ability to purchase at the moment, but I thought one of you out there would like to have this true relic from our period. if not, sorry for wasting bandwidth. Lou Sickler Colorado Territory "Having been so long absent from the business of trapping and so much perplexed and harassed by the folly of the men in power, I returned again to the woods, the river, the prarie, the camp and the game with a feeling somewhat like that of a prisoner escaped from his dungeon and his chains." Jedediah Strong Smith - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:10:23 EST From: Huss931@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1831 Newspaper Thanks for the heads up on the newspaper article. I plan to bid on it! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 00:40:58 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moccasin & Foot (Arch Support?) At 10:35 PM 12/07/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Would appreciate hearing modern and ancient camp's experiences >(non-Indian trapper and/or American Indian). How do the arches hold up? >knee strain? Did they make their own from a small piece of bunched-up >sock wool sewn to buckskin? We are descended from lots of generations of folks that didn't need or bother with this, and were on their feet more than us. I doubt that they used anything at all. I know that usually my feet feel better after a good long time in moccasins. This last summer I was on an extended (10 day) trip in side seams with no extra sole, and I was fine. Just my experience....... Allen Hall from Fort Hall country - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 14:45:12 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: Self Serving Commercial Promotion - --------------8CEC342D9004BC042A18D32F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, As per a request by a few of you I have worked up a copy of a EARLY common French knife. It can be seen a www.wesnet.com/deforge1/Knives.htm It is under the New Dec 9th along with two pics of the original. Thanks D - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - --------------8CEC342D9004BC042A18D32F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all,
 As per a request by a few of you I have worked up a copy of a EARLY common French knife.
It can be seen a
www.wesnet.com/deforge1/Knives.htm
It is under the New Dec 9th along with two pics of the original.
Thanks
D
--
 
"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
        DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
 Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
   http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
  - --------------8CEC342D9004BC042A18D32F-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 15:59:07 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Self Serving Commercial Promotion Dennis Miles wrote: > > Hi all, > As per a request by a few of you I have worked up a copy of a EARLY > common French knife. Dennis, Now that's a fine looking knife. How come it wasn't up for auction? I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:42:18 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Self Serving Commercial Promotion Cap't. Cause I gots bills to pay.. And a National to save up for... And thanks.. It is a fine feelin' sticker... D R Lahti wrote: > Now that's a fine looking knife. How come it wasn't up for auction? I > remain.... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #421 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.