Re: MtMan-List: over-trapping

From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #442 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, January 3 2000 Volume 01 : Number 442 In this issue: -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: over-trapping -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: over-trapping -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Flint and Steel -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Flint and Steel -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: fabric dies -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. -牋牋牋 RE: MtMan-List: over-trapping -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Deschamps Sisters -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 19:26:36 -0800 From: "Hill" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: over-trapping > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3029685996_98804_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I believe, Osbourne Russell places the blackfeet just barely in the headwaters of the Snake in eastern Idaho. As I remember from being a kid in Eastern Idaho the Shoshone Indians were in the valley of the Snake. The Blackfeet were moved to Fort Hall Reservation later? - ---------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" To: Subject: MtMan-List: over-trapping Date: Sun, Jan 2, 2000, 3:58 AM : JW Stephens asked: . If they (the Blackfeet) were buddy-buddy with the HBC how could the HBC get away with destroying Blackfoot fur country? B'st'rd Correct me if I am wrong but the Blackfeet country centered in what would now be the Eastern Montana/Canada border. Of Course they wandered a great bit but I do not think that they would concider the Snake River country as their own. As I understand where Peter Ogden went with the Snake River Brigade it was through Oregon/Idaho/Northern Utah. Even without this topographical difference I do not believe the HBC would have been too worried about offending Indian allies if it got in the way of reaching an important objective. They knew the Blackfeet need English guns etc. The Blackfeet weren't going anywhere. Yours WYnn - --MS_Mac_OE_3029685996_98804_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: over-trapping I believe, Osbourne Russell places the blackfeet just barely in the headwat= ers of the Snake in eastern Idaho. As I remember from being a kid in E= astern Idaho the Shoshone Indians were in the valley of the Snake. The= Blackfeet were moved to Fort Hall Reservation later?
- ----------
From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: over-trapping
Date: Sun, Jan 2, 2000, 3:58 AM

: JW Stephens asked:
. If they (the Blackfeet) were buddy-buddy with the HBC how could the HBC get away with destroying Blackfoot fur country?

B'st'rd

Correct me if I am wrong but the Blackfeet country centered = in what would now be the Eastern Montana/Canada border. Of Course they= wandered a great bit but I do not think that they would concider the Snake = River country as their own. As I understand where Peter Ogden went wit= h the Snake River Brigade it was through Oregon/Idaho/Northern Utah.

Even without this topographical difference I do not believe = the HBC would have been too worried about offending Indian allies if it got = in the way of reaching an important objective. They knew t= he Blackfeet need English guns etc. The Blackfeet weren't going anywhe= re.

Yours
WYnn

- --MS_Mac_OE_3029685996_98804_MIME_Part-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:48:02 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: over-trapping Hello the List, Blackfeet were like grizz. They went where ever they wanted. If you include the Gros Ventre as Blackfeet, they deviled everyone in Snake River Country, Pierre's Hole, of course Three Fork (just east of modern Butte, MT), out in Wyoming, etc. You weren't safe from Bug's Boys most anywhere here in the "shinin' mountians". Blackfeet were never on Fort Hall reservation as "tenants". That dubious honor was given the various bands of Shoshoni and Bannocks. Blackfeet res is up in Browning, MT, bordering Glacier National Park. However, the Blackfoot River that does run near the Fort Hall reservation has been called the Blackfoot River since fur trade time. Shoshoni ranged clear up in Horse Prairie (near Dillon, MT) to the Yellowstone Park area, over south of Wind River, then down into Utah. Yup, all them boys got around! Allen Hall in Fort Hall Country At 07:26 PM 01/02/2000 -0800, you wrote: >I believe, Osbourne Russell places the blackfeet just barely in the >headwaters of the Snake in eastern Idaho. As I remember from being a kid in >Eastern Idaho the Shoshone Indians were in the valley of the Snake. The >Blackfeet were moved to Fort Hall Reservation later? >---------- >From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" >To: >Subject: MtMan-List: over-trapping >Date: Sun, Jan 2, 2000, 3:58 AM > > >: JW Stephens asked: >. If they (the Blackfeet) were buddy-buddy with the HBC how could the HBC >get away with destroying Blackfoot fur country? > >B'st'rd > >Correct me if I am wrong but the Blackfeet country centered in what would >now be the Eastern Montana/Canada border. Of Course they wandered a great >bit but I do not think that they would concider the Snake River country as >their own. As I understand where Peter Ogden went with the Snake River >Brigade it was through Oregon/Idaho/Northern Utah. > >Even without this topographical difference I do not believe the HBC would >have been too worried about offending Indian allies if it got in the way of >reaching an important objective. They knew the Blackfeet need English >guns etc. The Blackfeet weren't going anywhere. > >Yours >WYnn > > > > >Re: MtMan-List: over-trapping > > >I believe, Osbourne Russell places the blackfeet just barely in the headwaters of the Snake in eastern Idaho. As I remember from being a kid in Eastern Idaho the Shoshone Indians were in the valley of the Snake. The Blackfeet were moved to Fort Hall Reservation later?
>----------
>From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@favorites.com>
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: MtMan-List: over-trapping
>Date: Sun, Jan 2, 2000, 3:58 AM
>
>
>

: JW Stephens asked:
>. If they (the Blackfeet) were buddy-buddy with the HBC how could the HBC
>get away with destroying Blackfoot fur country?
>
>B'st'rd
>
>Correct me if I am wrong but the Blackfeet country centered in what would now be the Eastern Montana/Canada border. Of Course they wandered a great bit but I do not think that they would concider the Snake River country as their own. As I understand where Peter Ogden went with the Snake River Brigade it was through Oregon/Idaho/Northern Utah.
>
>Even without this topographical difference I do not believe the HBC would have been too worried about offending Indian allies if it got in the way of reaching an important objective. They knew the Blackfeet need English guns etc. The Blackfeet weren't going anywhere.
>
>Yours
>WYnn
>
>
>

> > > Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 01:39:45 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson Where Swan (Johnson's Flathead wife) shows him how to hunt grouse? by throwing a stone from within 8 feet? - without using a leather sling! Can such a hunting technique be backed up from any American Indian historical records? - ----------------------------------- from Michigan Territory - ----------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:54:47 +0000 From: JW Stephens Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson I don't know about no steenkin' grouse, but I once nailed a goose taking wing from about 20 feet with a fist-sized rock. Dropped it dead, to my chagrin. I was in college and didn't want it dead. I've also stalked grouse to within about 10 feet, so I suspect such a technique is possible, but no, I've never read of an incident like that. B'st'rd JON MARINETTI wrote: > > Where Swan (Johnson's Flathead wife) shows him how to hunt grouse? by > throwing a stone from within 8 feet? - without using a leather sling! > Can such a hunting technique be backed up from any American Indian > historical records? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jan 2000 07:00:57 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson On Sun, 02 January 2000, JON MARINETTI wrote: > > Where Swan (Johnson's Flathead wife) shows him how to hunt grouse? by > throwing a stone from within 8 feet? - without using a leather sling! > Can such a hunting technique be backed up from any American Indian > historical records? > According to an article a few years ago in the American Hunter (NRA) magazine, Jefferson used the leather thong with a small piece of leather tied in the center (sling) to throw rocks into heavy cover when hunting birds or deer. A few presidents later Teddy R. was doing the same thing. He told reporters he had read about this and how well it worked, seems the Europeans watching the natives is where they got it from. The article didn't say which "natives" - Africa, North America, or who know's. Several of us have used this method for twenty years after seeing Robert Stack use it on American Sportsman while hunting game birds. It works for any game we have tried it on - elk, deer, bear, birds and even buffalo. Works very nicely to move game around for a better shot also. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jan 2000 07:34:13 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson On Mon, 03 January 2000, Buck wrote: > > On Sun, 02 January 2000, JON MARINETTI wrote: > > > > > Where Swan (Johnson's Flathead wife) shows him how to hunt grouse? by > > throwing a stone from within 8 feet? - without using a leather sling! > > Can such a hunting technique be backed up from any American Indian > > historical records? > > > According to an article a few years ago in the American Hunter (NRA) magazine, Jefferson used the leather thong with a small piece of leather tied in the center (sling) to throw rocks into heavy cover when hunting birds or deer. > > A few presidents later Teddy R. was doing the same thing. He told reporters he had read about this and how well it worked, seems the Europeans watching the natives is where they got it from. The article didn't say which "natives" - Africa, North America, or who know's. > > Several of us have used this method for twenty years after seeing Robert Stack use it on American Sportsman while hunting game birds. It works for any game we have tried it on - elk, deer, bear, birds and even buffalo. Works very nicely to move game around for a better shot also. > > Later, > Buck Conner > _________________________________ I hit "send" my mistake and didn't get to finish what I was writing, sorry. I have never seen anything written on just throwing small stones or rocks as a method of killing, usually everything read shows the use of another item involved with the use of a rock or stone - like a sling, slingshot, a bow with a stone or blunt rock attached and so on. Hollywood has made many movies with kids and adults throwing stones at game and people - from the cavemen to the street gangs !!! Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:03:07 -0800 From: "P. Amschler" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. Well, After almost a year in hidding I have a question about this question..'no pun here':) THe answer was give as to use Canvas well if one wanted to be a bit more "PC" in the Mounian Man Circles what about Osnbreg fabric? I have been told by a few AMM members that this is a very close match. - --- amschlers@mailcity.com LYCOShop is now open. On your mark, get set, SHOP!!! http://shop.lycos.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:07:42 -0500 (EST) From: MedicineWolfe@webtv.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson I remember reading as a youth a book about the historical Grizzly Adams where one of his Native American friends or helpers struck several birds off a tree branch with a stick for the supper pot! Many ideas in this book proved to be correct such as how to render Acorns edible,so this similar incident many be correct as well! YMOS M.W http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin The road to progress is the path of fools!!! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:15:29 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and Steel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF55DB.D76E6BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wynn, I pack mine much like Frank, except that my tin is roughly the = size of an old aspirin can. Not very big, but the striker I use is a two = finger one so fits right in. I also carry a small bag of tinder, usually = juniper bark or uncombed flax. Sometimes both. Bill C -----Original Message----- From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 10:23 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Flint and Steel =20 =20 My nephew and I were discussing the merits and faults of lighting = fires with flint and steel and he posed a question as to how someone in = say Boston in the 1800-1840 light their fires in the home. Or another = way to put it is what was then the state of the art fire making method? = I told him I did not know but I have a great source for such = information! =20 =20 My next question is how do some of you carry your "fire kit"? = Specifically, do you pack your char cloth in the same tin you make it = in? And how do you keep it from making a lot of noise? =20 Thank You all for sharing your knowledge and being so damned = entertaining WYnn=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF55DB.D76E6BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wynn, I pack mine much like Frank, = except that=20 my tin is roughly the size of an old aspirin can. Not very big, but the = striker=20 I use is a two finger one so fits right in. I also carry a small bag of = tinder,=20 usually juniper bark or uncombed flax. Sometimes both.

Bill = C

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Wynn & Gretchen Ormond <leona3@favorites.com>
T= o:=20 hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20 <hist_text@lists.xmission.com= >
Date:=20 Saturday, January 01, 2000 10:23 AM
Subject: = MtMan-List: Flint=20 and Steel

My nephew and I were discussing the = merits and=20 faults of lighting fires with flint and steel and he posed a = question as to=20 how someone in say Boston in the 1800-1840 light their fires in the=20 home. Or another way to put it is what was then the state of = the art=20 fire making method? I told him I did not know but I have a = great=20 source for such information!

My next question is how do some of = you carry=20 your "fire kit"? Specifically, do you pack your char = cloth=20 in the same tin you make it in? And how do you keep it from = making a=20 lot of noise?

Thank You all for sharing your = knowledge=20 and being so damned entertaining

WYnn

- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF55DB.D76E6BC0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:16:48 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and Steel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF55DC.068AF7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By the way, pioneers often had a little flint-pistol-like device in the = home that they used to start their char glowing with. Dixie may still = sell them. They work pretty neat. Bill C -----Original Message----- From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 10:23 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Flint and Steel =20 =20 My nephew and I were discussing the merits and faults of lighting = fires with flint and steel and he posed a question as to how someone in = say Boston in the 1800-1840 light their fires in the home. Or another = way to put it is what was then the state of the art fire making method? = I told him I did not know but I have a great source for such = information! =20 =20 My next question is how do some of you carry your "fire kit"? = Specifically, do you pack your char cloth in the same tin you make it = in? And how do you keep it from making a lot of noise? =20 Thank You all for sharing your knowledge and being so damned = entertaining WYnn=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF55DC.068AF7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

By the way, pioneers often had a = little=20 flint-pistol-like device in the home that they used to start their char = glowing=20 with. Dixie may still sell them. They work pretty neat.

Bill = C

Thank You all for sharing your = knowledge=20 and being so damned entertaining

WYnn

- ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BF55DC.068AF7C0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:06:10 -0800 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. "P. Amschler" wrote: > > Well, > After almost a year in hidding I have a question about this question..'no pun here':) > THe answer was give as to use Canvas well if one wanted to be a bit more "PC" in the Mounian Man Circles what about Osnbreg fabric? P. Amshler, I presume this question deals with shirt making material? Osneberg would work just fine, be authentic and be my choice over canvas for a shirt. It is quit a bit lighter in weight than even the lightest grades of canvas and usually has some small dark thick spots of fiber that give it a homespun look. I think it would be too light weight for pants or shelters but..... Hope that's what you were looking for in way of an answer. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:22:42 -0500 From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fabric dies >yup use a dye.. rit will work, if you do not mind modern stuff.. but you >must have a mordant... that is the stuff that sets the dye so it does not >fade. Lotsa things can be a mordant, vinegar, ammonia.. and hot piss.. >yeah, animal urine works real good... commercially it comes powdered and is >called urea. Natural dyes.. depends on the color you want to achieve.. >Black in not really period.. it was not until this century that a stable >black dye was created, it faded usually to a dark green... >anne > Given the availability of vinegar, then and now, I'd rather stay away from anyone's urine but my own. What proportion of vinegar mordant-to-Rit dye solution is recommended? HBC **************************************** Henry B. Crawford Box 43191 Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because It's There ****** - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 12:46:20 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. You can get onsnaberg and other period fabrics at good quality and prices from Hamilton Dry Goods. They have a web site under that name, and are owned by Ron Hamilton, generally known as "Tennessee." HE is located in, guess where, Cookeville, TN. - -----Original Message----- From: R Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, January 03, 2000 11:04 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greenhorn needs help. > > >"P. Amschler" wrote: >> >> Well, >> After almost a year in hidding I have a question about this question..'no pun here':) >> THe answer was give as to use Canvas well if one wanted to be a bit more "PC" in the Mounian Man Circles what about Osnbreg fabric? > >P. Amshler, > >I presume this question deals with shirt making material? Osneberg would >work just fine, be authentic and be my choice over canvas for a shirt. >It is quit a bit lighter in weight than even the lightest grades of >canvas and usually has some small dark thick spots of fiber that give it >a homespun look. I think it would be too light weight for pants or >shelters but..... Hope that's what you were looking for in way of an >answer. I remain.... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:21:19 +0000 From: rick_williams@byu.edu Subject: RE: MtMan-List: over-trapping This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_KJY1fp5kAP09WoBihykhqw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE When Andrew Henry took his group to the three forks area and tried to= trap in 1812, he was repeatedly attacked by blackfeet.=A0 This is where= =A0 Lewis and Clark's George Druilliard lost his life.=A0 Finally these trappers ga= ve up and most returned the Missouri to St. Louis.=A0 However Henry was met by = a party coming back up river went over the hills and established his fort on = the Snake side of the divide near the Lake and river that bears his name.= =A0 He apparently felt safe enough to built his fort on this side of the mou= ntains rather than on the other.=A0 This side would be considered more Banno= ck Shoshoni Flathead country. =A0 Further,=A0 Ogden's Snake River party that was given the charge to tr= ap out the Snake River Country to limit the American intrusion on THIS side = of the divide.=A0 The side was up for territorial debate=A0between England a= nd the US not the=A0Missouri or Louisiana Purchase side. - -----Original Message----- =46rom: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Wynn & Gretch= en Ormond Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 11:58 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: over-trapping : JW Stephens asked: =2E If they (the Blackfeet) were buddy-buddy with the HBC how could t= he HBC get away with destroying Blackfoot fur country? B'st'rd =A0 Correct me if I am wrong but the Blackfeet country centered in what w= ould now be the Eastern Montana/Canada border.=A0 Of Course they wandered = a great bit but I do not think that they would concider the Snake River count= ry as their own.=A0 As I understand where Peter Ogden went with the Snake R= iver Brigade it was through Oregon/Idaho/Northern Utah. =A0 Even without this topographical difference I do not believe the HBC w= ould have been too worried about offending Indian allies if it got in the = way of reaching an important objective.=A0=A0=A0 They knew the Blackfeet nee= d English guns etc.=A0 The Blackfeet weren't going anywhere. =A0 Yours WYnn =A0 - --Boundary_(ID_KJY1fp5kAP09WoBihykhqw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

When=20 Andrew Henry took his group to the three forks area and tried to trap= in 1812,=20 he was repeatedly attacked by blackfeet. This is where Le= wis and=20 Clark's George Druilliard lost his life. Finally these trappers= gave up=20 and most returned the Missouri to St. Louis. However Henry was = met by a=20 party coming back up river went over the hills and established his fo= rt on the=20 Snake side of the divide near the Lake and river that bears his name.= He=20 apparently felt safe enough to built his fort on this side of the mou= ntains=20 rather than on the other. This side would be considered more Ba= nnock=20 Shoshoni Flathead country.

Further, Ogden's Snake River party t= hat was given=20 the charge to trap out the Snake River Country to limit the American = intrusion=20 on THIS side of the divide. The side was up for territorial= =20 debate between England and the US not the Missouri or Louis= iana=20 Purchase side.

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Wynn= &=20 Gretchen Ormond
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 11:58=20 AM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Mt= Man-List:=20 over-trapping

: JW Stephens asked:

. If they (the Blackfeet) were bud= dy-buddy with=20 the HBC how could the HBC
get away with destroying Blackfoot fur= =20 country?

B'st'rd

Correct me if I am wrong but the B= lackfeet=20 country centered in what would now be the Eastern Montana/Canada bo= rder. =20 Of Course they wandered a great bit but I do not think that they wo= uld=20 concider the Snake River country as their own. As I understan= d where=20 Peter Ogden went with the Snake River Brigade it was through=20 Oregon/Idaho/Northern Utah.

Even without this topographical di= fference I do=20 not believe the HBC would have been too worried about offending Ind= ian allies=20 if it got in the way of reaching an important objective. = ; =20 They knew the Blackfeet need English guns etc. The Blackfeet = weren't=20 going anywhere.

Yours

WYnn

- --Boundary_(ID_KJY1fp5kAP09WoBihykhqw)-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 18:25:17 EST From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Deschamps Sisters Laura, Yes, Mr. Ferris had a way with words. Far more eloqunet than all the purposed "Trapper Talk" one hears from reenactors. Say, did you ever get any info on the Deschamps sisters? If not, there is an interesting story about a fued between the Deschamps and the Rems at Fort Union in Charles Larpenteur's "Forty Years a Fur Trader..." I don't have the page number (I'm at work) but if you need it, let me know and I'll get it to you. Jim Hardee - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:28:35 -0500 From: jerry derringer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson > > > Where Swan (Johnson's Flathead wife) shows him how to hunt grouse? by > > > throwing a stone from within 8 feet? - without using a leather sling! > > > Can such a hunting technique be backed up from any American Indian > > > historical records? Howdy! Been a lurker for a while but this one caught my attention.............no big deal!! Back in my younger days (in the eastern states) I used to go squirrel huntin with a pocket full o rocks & make my limit. Had to throw with my left hand tho,....tore'm up pretty bad with my right hand................ JD - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:16:01 -0800 From: "Wayne & Terri" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Incident in movie Jeremiah Johnson I don't know about historical documentation. But two years ago my foster son took a grouse with a rock about the size of a baseball and at about 12 feet. the grouse was along side a dirt road. He is a pretty big kid.(and at times pretty damn lucky) And in the same year I took one with a club about a foot long thrown in tomahawk style. The Grouse was sitting on a branch in a tree. 3strings - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #442 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.