From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #452 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, January 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 452 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN -       Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN -       MtMan-List: Croatoan -       MtMan-List: Croatoan -       Re: MtMan-List: Croatoan -       MtMan-List: Croatoan -       Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN -       Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN -       MtMan-List: For Sale -       Re: MtMan-List: funny link! -       Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN -       RE: MtMan-List: Croatoan -       MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade -       Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade -       Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade -       Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade -       Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade -       Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade] -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade] -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade] -       Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:56:56 -0500 (EST) From: MedicineWolfe@webtv.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN That is however what the Lumbee belive to be true. I did not mean to implie it was "The Truth" or the only answer to a very interesting histori- cal riddle,just one of many explanations! Humbly, M.Wolfe http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin The road to progress is the path of fools!!! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:47:42 -0600 From: "Anne MacDonnald" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN Yeah, I know,.... what I have always found amusing is the way history is written, not only by the victors, but lately the slant is to write, or rather rewrite it to reflect poltical climes. I have my own high school history book, in it it states that the Japenese were winning in the Pacific, that was a factor in deciding to drop the A-bomb.... In my 17 yr old son's that tidbit is conveniently left out. I remember a conversation with my father, who was in intelligence during that time, in the Army Air Corps. He told me the same thing.... But now because we are buddy-buddy with Japan, we cannot say anthing that might be construed as 'wrong'. Another pet peeve of mine is that historians, and teachers, frequently teach history from a modern standpoint. Not either understanding or wishing to look at it from the attitude of the times whether or not, the attitudes were right or wrong, is totally immaterial, it was how they looked at things, and viewed the world during that time in history. ooopps, how did that soapbox slide over here...sigh.... anyway... annie > That is however what the Lumbee belive to be true. I did not mean to > implie it was "The Truth" or the only answer to a very interesting > histori- > cal riddle,just one of many explanations! > Humbly, > M.Wolfe > > http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin > > The road to progress is the path of fools!!! > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:11:42 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: Croatoan Matt, the story you are referring to is known as "the Lost Colony". There are a lot of theories and stories about the event. I believe the T.V. program referred to earlier was an episode of the program "in Search of" Or it may have been on "Histories Mysteries" I am not sure which. It still remains a mystery, but Virginia Dare remains the first white child known to be born in the new world. It is an interesting story, for sure. Dog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:48:01 -0600 From: "Wefarmasmidgen" Subject: MtMan-List: Croatoan If you visit Jamestown, the historians there will tell you that it is not known what is meant by CROATOAN, and where the settlers went is still a mystery. There are several theories; none of them proven. However, the most likely seems to be that some of the settlers were absorbed into the indian tribes - this is based on fact that there were blue-eyed indians to be found in the area. Someone mentioned that this would be most likely from the vikings; maybe, maybe not, maybe some from both sources. Sally Bridgham at Wefarmasmidgen in Beautiful Southwestern Wisconsin wefarm@pcii.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:01:40 -0600 From: "Anne MacDonnald" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Croatoan Seems to me another theory involved a mass grave, but I am working on a long ago tv show... yeah it was on History's Mystery's and Nat'l Geo did a spread on it some years back. another mystery is how a stele covered in viking runes exists in kansas [or was it okla.?] found the website one night when I typed in Rune as a search word... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wefarmasmidgen" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 12:48 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Croatoan > If you visit Jamestown, the historians there will tell you that it is not > known what is meant by CROATOAN, and where the settlers went is still a > mystery. There are several theories; none of them proven. However, the > most likely seems to be that some of the settlers were absorbed into the > indian tribes - this is based on fact that there were blue-eyed indians to > be found in the area. Someone mentioned that this would be most likely from > the vikings; maybe, maybe not, maybe some from both sources. > > Sally Bridgham at Wefarmasmidgen > in Beautiful Southwestern Wisconsin > wefarm@pcii.net > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:28:16 -0700 From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Croatoan Please take the Croatoan discussion off list..it doesn't fit here. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:38:22 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN there is a town in north carolina that was founded by the so called lost tribe---dont remember the name---someone else might have that info---they have been trying to get recognized as a indian tribe for years---it is located just south of fayetteville nc. On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:47:51 -0600 "Anne MacDonnald" writes: > your teachers have not touched on this one? > amazing.... it is still a mystery. No one knows... > they also contained the first childe born in the new world > Virginnia > Dare...think that was her name. > > And I bet they will tell you that St. Augustine was the first > village too... > there is another, a yr older.. > anne > > > > > > Thanks to all who responded to my post on the non-believers. I > have yet > > another question on that is not related to the mountain men. In > 1587 the > > English settled on a island off of North Carolina. Sir Walter > Raliegh and > > John White were the founders. Raliegh and white left to fight the > Spanish > > navy(the great defeat of the Spanish Armada by the hand of the > English) > and > > came back 3 years later bringing supplies. When they returned, > all they > > found was the inhabitants tools, huts, etc. and a tree with > "CROATOAN" > > carved in it. Raliegh did say to leave a message if they moved. > He > looked > > up and down the mainland coast but found no one but a group of > Indians > with > > lighter hair than the other local tibes. Does anyone know what > happened > to > > the English settlers? > > > > Matt > > Porter > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "HAWK" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 Phone: 1-727-771-1815 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:18:31 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN - -----Original Message----- From: Anne MacDonnald To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: January 19, 2000 11:49 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN >whether or not, the attitudes were right or wrong, is totally immaterial, it >was how they looked at things, and viewed the world during that time in >history. "Never judge the events of the past by using the perspectives of the present." Thats one of my favorite sayings. northwoods - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:22:50 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: For Sale Hi all, Excuse this crass commercial announcement. But a friend of mine, Jim Moore, Outta Pa. has the following for sale. It ia all high quality stuff and ENTIRELY hand sewn. The breeches are pricey, but the rest is worth it.. He will sell or trade...He trades well... D > > > > >Waistcoat--wool, grey, early, knee-length, with leather buttons--$250 > > > >Breeches--linen, olive drab-ish, fly waist, pockets, buttons at waist, > >leg ones missing...well used, small holes, greasy from being out in > the > >woods, hunting, etc. $200 > > > >Blanket, 6 X 6 1/2 feet, handspun, hand-dyed, handwoven, from > >Prickett's Fort $200, > > > >Trade or sell, on everything. Call James at 724-537-7240 after 8 pm > >EST... > > - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:13:25 -0800 From: "jdearing" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: funny link! >I researched this in great depth. Among the findings were: > 1. The French primarily came for this reason. > 2. But, the others (except Spain) used furs as a supplement to their > attempt to make money from the new world. > 3. You will soon study the Navigation Acts of England in Colonial > America. One of the major restrictions was on "hats." Colonials were not > allowed to have a hat industry An excellent source for the history of early British migrations to this country is "Albions Seed", Four British Folkways in America. David Hackett Fischer, Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-506905-6 The book discusses, in length, the four great migrations from Britain to the New World including the Speech ways, building ways, Family Ways, Marriage ways, Gender, sex, child rearing, naming ways, death ways, religious ways, magic ways, learning ways, food, fashion, sports, work, Time ways, distribution of wealth , rank, social ways, ways of order, power, and freedom. Lots of foot notes and a bibliography too. At $26 bucks in paperback and just over 900 pages, this book is a little intimidating for those of us without the benefit of higher education, but it is a very interesting read. J.D. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:15:12 -0500 From: tipis@mediaone.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: CROATOAN Actually there was the settlement at Ft. Caroline in Jacksonville, FLa. that can claim the first "white" child born in the new world that predates Dare. Unfortunately they also disappeared when force to go back to France and their ship was destroyed by a large storm off the coast of St. Augustine. Linda Holley Anne MacDonnald wrote: > your teachers have not touched on this one? > amazing.... it is still a mystery. No one knows... > they also contained the first childe born in the new world Virginnia > Dare...think that was her name. > > And I bet they will tell you that St. Augustine was the first village too... > there is another, a yr older.. > anne > > > Thanks to all who responded to my post on the non-believers. I have yet > > another question on that is not related to the mountain men. In 1587 the > > English settled on a island off of North Carolina. Sir Walter Raliegh and > > John White were the founders. Raliegh and white left to fight the Spanish > > navy(the great defeat of the Spanish Armada by the hand of the English) > and > > came back 3 years later bringing supplies. When they returned, all they > > found was the inhabitants tools, huts, etc. and a tree with "CROATOAN" > > carved in it. Raliegh did say to leave a message if they moved. He > looked > > up and down the mainland coast but found no one but a group of Indians > with > > lighter hair than the other local tibes. Does anyone know what happened > to > > the English settlers? > > > > Matt > > Porter > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:37:10 -0600 From: farseer Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Croatoan Heavener Oklahoma. Seems wierd, but if you look at a map, it would be possible to get to Heavener, by heading down the Mississippi, and then up the Arkansas. Put you to within a days walk of where the stone is. Fiction book called "The Runestone" by Dan Coldsmith that presensts some plausible ideas how the Mandan got their blond hair and green eyes, and how the stone got there. The author points out it IS fiction, and does not say this is how things happened, but how they could have happened. Pretty good read actually. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Anne MacDonnald > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 2:02 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Croatoan > > > Seems to me another theory involved a mass grave, but > I am working on a long ago tv show... > yeah it was on History's Mystery's and Nat'l Geo did a > spread on it some years back. > > another mystery is how a stele covered in viking runes exists in > kansas [or > was it okla.?] found the website one night when I typed in Rune > as a search > word... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wefarmasmidgen" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 12:48 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Croatoan > > > > If you visit Jamestown, the historians there will tell you that > it is not > > known what is meant by CROATOAN, and where the settlers went is still a > > mystery. There are several theories; none of them proven. However, the > > most likely seems to be that some of the settlers were absorbed into the > > indian tribes - this is based on fact that there were blue-eyed > indians to > > be found in the area. Someone mentioned that this would be most likely > from > > the vikings; maybe, maybe not, maybe some from both sources. > > > > Sally Bridgham at Wefarmasmidgen > > in Beautiful Southwestern Wisconsin > > wefarm@pcii.net > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:14:31 -0800 From: R Lahti Subject: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade Hello the camp, A friend has asked me the following question and I don't have the answer. "Does the AMM know or made a list of the type rifles, smoothbores, trade guns, etc. carried and used by the MM? Most prevalent type etc.? How much research into firearms has AMM done?" I took a look in the archives and found many references to rifles, guns and fusils, etc. but didn't find any specific references that really came close to answering the above question in any detail other that "so may of rifles, so many NW guns, so many fusils, etc. Has anyone compiled a report of what types and styles, etc. of guns were carried? Where can I find that information. Thanks, I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:40:08 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade Has anyone compiled > a report of what types and styles, etc. of guns were carried? Where can > I find that information. Thanks, I remain.....> YMOS> Capt. Lahti' Good question Capt. Lahti', you may find that this is breaking new ground. Signal fires appear rather limited around this campfire in the few days I have begin to participate. Maybe a new table is called for. Badgerhole. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:37:48 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade If you want to see what learn more about the types of firearms carried by the mountain men check out the book "The Plains Rifle". It probably covers the information you are looking for better than any other work I have seen. northwoods - -----Original Message----- From: R Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: January 19, 2000 11:13 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade >Hello the camp, > >A friend has asked me the following question and I don't have the >answer. > >"Does the AMM know or made a list of the type rifles, smoothbores, trade >guns, etc. carried and >used by the MM? Most prevalent type etc.? How much research into >firearms has AMM done?" > >I took a look in the archives and found many references to rifles, guns >and fusils, etc. but didn't find any specific references that really >came close to answering the above question in any detail other that "so >may of rifles, so many NW guns, so many fusils, etc. Has anyone compiled >a report of what types and styles, etc. of guns were carried? Where can >I find that information. Thanks, I remain..... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 2000 06:47:44 -0800 From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade On Wed, 19 January 2000, R Lahti wrote: > > Hello the camp, > > A friend has asked me the following question and I don't have the > answer. > > "Does the AMM know or made a list of the type rifles, smoothbores, trade > guns, etc. carried and > used by the MM? Most prevalent type etc.? How much research into > firearms has AMM done?" > > I took a look in the archives and found many references to rifles, guns > and fusils, etc. but didn't find any specific references that really > came close to answering the above question in any detail other that "so > may of rifles, so many NW guns, so many fusils, etc. Has anyone compiled > a report of what types and styles, etc. of guns were carried? Where can > I find that information. Thanks, I remain..... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' Capt., Charley Hanson tried to put together a list years ago and found there where to many unknowns. For example: the military gave you a musket when finishing your enlistment and many left for the mountains carrying that weapon, according to Charley the numbers are unknown - where the men went with their guns. But we see them in collections found in the Rockies, plain, tacked, broken or their parts used on other guns. Same with the NW, trade gun and everything from fowlers to plains rifles, everytime Charley thought he had a handle on it, another thing would come up to change his count or his mind. I have a pre 1813 Sharpe trade gun, limited in manf. numbers from England - sold for the east coast only according to the historians (that's where mine came from), yet Charley found a chopped down one at an old ranch in NE, a family hand-me-down - now at the museum. One's guess is as good as another's on what, type and numbers went to the trade. Later Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~ AMM ~ Lenni-Lenape Society ~ NRA ~~~ ~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory Aux Ailments de Pays! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:01:05 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade There are numerous books out there - well written, serious stuff. Plus there are many, many journal and diary entries from the period that provide a wealth of information. One just has to be willing to do the ground work of hunting for it. Start with the card or computer index at the local library. Bill C - -----Original Message----- From: R Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 9:13 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade >Hello the camp, > >A friend has asked me the following question and I don't have the >answer. > >"Does the AMM know or made a list of the type rifles, smoothbores, trade >guns, etc. carried and >used by the MM? Most prevalent type etc.? How much research into >firearms has AMM done?" > >I took a look in the archives and found many references to rifles, guns >and fusils, etc. but didn't find any specific references that really >came close to answering the above question in any detail other that "so >may of rifles, so many NW guns, so many fusils, etc. Has anyone compiled >a report of what types and styles, etc. of guns were carried? Where can >I find that information. Thanks, I remain..... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:59:01 -0600 From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade Re: Northwoods' post: on "The Plains Rifle" "The Plains Rifle" by Charles E. Hanson Gun Room Press 127 Raritan Ave Highland Park, NJ Excellent book, even for beginners. Has beautiful photographs. Lots of details. Be sure to get a cup of coffee because Mr. Hanson's style of writing is as if you and he are sitting at the kitchen table drinking coffee while he shares his perspective and knowledge. Texan On Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:37:48 -0600 "northwoods" writes: > If you want to see what learn more about the types of firearms > carried by > the mountain men check out the book "The Plains Rifle". It probably > covers > the information you are looking for better than any other work I > have seen. > > northwoods > > -----Original Message----- > From: R Lahti > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: January 19, 2000 11:13 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade > > > >Hello the camp, > > > >A friend has asked me the following question and I don't have the > >answer. > > > >"Does the AMM know or made a list of the type rifles, smoothbores, > trade > >guns, etc. carried and > >used by the MM? Most prevalent type etc.? How much research into > >firearms has AMM done?" > > > >I took a look in the archives and found many references to rifles, > guns > >and fusils, etc. but didn't find any specific references that > really > >came close to answering the above question in any detail other that > "so > >may of rifles, so many NW guns, so many fusils, etc. Has anyone > compiled > >a report of what types and styles, etc. of guns were carried? Where > can > >I find that information. Thanks, I remain..... > > > >YMOS > >Capt. Lahti' > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 00 09:58:43 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade] bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) wrote: There are numerous books out there - well written, serious stuff. Plus th= ere are many, many journal and diary entries from the period that provide a wealth of information. One just has to be willing to do the ground work o= f hunting for it. Start with the card or computer index at the local librar= y. Bill C - -----Original Message----- From: R Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 9:13 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade Hey Bill, A few issues back you had an article in the Tomahawk & Long Rifle on trad= e guns that Buck wrote, I use that article for reference when doing men's luncheons, etc. - good information and not much baloney to weed through. = I really like what you have done with that publication old friend. Buck has moved his web page to another server - ABOUT.COM, need to get th= e address, guess AT&T got a little pricey. Take care Bill, Concho. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 00 10:03:58 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade] Victoria Pate wrote: Re: Northwoods' post: on "The Plains Rifle" "The Plains Rifle" by Charles E. Hanson Gun Room Press 127 Raritan Ave Highland Park, NJ Excellent book, even for beginners. Has beautiful photographs. Lots of details. Be sure to get a cup of coffee because Mr. Hanson's style of writing is as if you and he are sitting at the kitchen table drinking coffee while he shares his perspective and knowledge. Texan _______________________________ That must be where Buck gets his style from, him and Charlie where friend= s for 30 years, ever free weekend Buck would make the trip from Denver to Chadr= on to be with his friend. Got we miss you Charles E. Hanson, Jr. Concho. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:10:40 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade] Thank you for the kind words. I just mailed the Feb issue - the PO should have it to everyone within about three weeks. Bill - -----Original Message----- From: Concho Smith To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade] bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) wrote: There are numerous books out there - well written, serious stuff. Plus there are many, many journal and diary entries from the period that provide a wealth of information. One just has to be willing to do the ground work of hunting for it. Start with the card or computer index at the local library. Bill C - -----Original Message----- From: R Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 9:13 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade Hey Bill, A few issues back you had an article in the Tomahawk & Long Rifle on trade guns that Buck wrote, I use that article for reference when doing men's luncheons, etc. - good information and not much baloney to weed through. I really like what you have done with that publication old friend. Buck has moved his web page to another server - ABOUT.COM, need to get the address, guess AT&T got a little pricey. Take care Bill, Concho. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:24:59 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF6338.FC365200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Capt., I think the right answer is, they carried whatever type of gun they = had when they initially went to the mountains. There are documents that = detail what type of guns were carried to the mountains by the trading = companies, but that doesn't reflect what the turnover rate was on guns. = By that I mean, how long did the average gun last that was taken to the = mountains. One thing we have to keep in mind, fine guns were highly = cherished then as they are now, but for the most part guns were just = tools, like traps, knives and all the other gear. They were neccessary = for the harvesting of furs, much like a carpenters or plumbers tools are = used today. when one wore out they got another one. I guess that was a rather longwinded way of saying, I don't know, and = I don't think anyone else does either. Like you I wish I did. One = thing that has always puzzled me is, why did the trading companies = document all the details of the cloth and the sizes and colors of the = beads, but didn't document the calibers of the guns that were taken or = sizes and styles of the knives that were taken. Now before I stir up = another discussion, I know that there are surviving examples of butcher = knives and scalpers, but in the records the say so many doz. butcher = knives and so many scalpers etc. without giving any detail of the style = or size. So many questions. Pendleton =20 -----Original Message----- From: R Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 9:12 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Guns of the fur trade =20 =20 Hello the camp, =20 A friend has asked me the following question and I don't have the answer. =20 "Does the AMM know or made a list of the type rifles, smoothbores, = trade guns, etc. carried and used by the MM? Most prevalent type etc.? How much research into firearms has AMM done?" =20 I took a look in the archives and found many references to rifles, = guns and fusils, etc. but didn't find any specific references that really came close to answering the above question in any detail other that = "so may of rifles, so many NW guns, so many fusils, etc. Has anyone = compiled a report of what types and styles, etc. of guns were carried? Where = can I find that information. Thanks, I remain..... =20 YMOS Capt. Lahti' =20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF6338.FC365200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Capt.,
  I think = the right=20 answer is, they carried whatever type of gun they had when they = initially went=20 to the mountains.  There are documents that detail what type of = guns were=20 carried to the mountains by the trading companies, but that doesn't = reflect what=20 the turnover rate was on guns.  By that I mean, how long did the = average=20 gun last that was taken to the mountains.  One thing we have to = keep in=20 mind, fine guns were highly cherished then as they are now, but for the = most=20 part guns were just tools, like traps, knives and all the other = gear.  They=20 were neccessary for the harvesting of furs, much like a carpenters or = plumbers=20 tools are used today.  when one wore out they got another = one.
  I guess that was a rather longwinded way of = saying, I=20 don't know, and I don't think anyone else does either.  Like you I = wish I=20 did.  One thing that has always puzzled me is, why did the trading=20 companies document all the details of the cloth and the sizes and colors = of the=20 beads, but didn't document the calibers of the guns that were taken or = sizes and=20 styles of the knives that were taken.  Now before I stir up another = discussion, I know that there are surviving examples of butcher knives = and=20 scalpers, but in the records the say so many doz. butcher knives and so = many=20 scalpers etc. without giving any detail of the style or = size.
So many questions.
Pendleton 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
To: = hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20 <hist_text@lists.xmission.com= >
Date:=20 Wednesday, January 19, 2000 9:12 PM
Subject: = MtMan-List: Guns=20 of the fur trade

Hello the camp,

A friend = has=20 asked me the following question and I don't have=20 the
answer.

"Does the AMM know or made a list of the = type=20 rifles, smoothbores, trade
guns, etc. carried and
used by the=20 MM?  Most prevalent type etc.?  How much research = into
firearms=20 has AMM done?"

I took a look in the archives and found = many=20 references to rifles, guns
and fusils, etc. but didn't find any = specific=20 references that really
came close to answering the above question = in any=20 detail other that "so
may of rifles, so many NW guns, so = many=20 fusils, etc. Has anyone compiled
a report of what types and = styles, etc.=20 of guns were carried? Where can
I find that information. Thanks, = I=20 remain.....

YMOS
Capt.=20 Lahti'

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