From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #566 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, May 30 2000 Volume 01 : Number 566 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: NOT FUR TRADE HISTORY................interesting gun stuff -       MtMan-List: Australia/NRA Rebuttal -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: NOT FUR TRADE -       MtMan-List: iron pots -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: NOT FUR TRADE HISTORY................interesting gun stuff -       Re: MtMan-List: Waugh! For Mountain Doins -       MtMan-List: Re:Cast ironware at Astoria -       MtMan-List: Planning for a Ronnyvous in Aug/Sep 2001 in W Va -       Re: MtMan-List: Planning for a Ronnyvous in Aug/Sep 2001 in W Va -       Re: MtMan-List: Planning for a Ronnyvous in Aug/Sep 2001 in W Va -       MtMan-List: Memorial day thought (off topic) -       Re: MtMan-List: Memorial day thought (off topic) -       MtMan-List: to whom it may concern -       RE: MtMan-List: Canteens ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:15:22 -0700 From: "Paul W. Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: NOT FUR TRADE HISTORY................interesting gun stuff This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BFC999.DA851FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, please provide me (us) with the source for this information. I = want to forward it to several news broadcasters that I know to see what, = if anything they will do with it, but I want to be absolutely sure it is = 100% accurate before I send it. =20 Thanks, Paul ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John C. Funk, Jr.=20 To: history line=20 Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 2:18 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Re: NOT FUR TRADE = HISTORY................interesting gun stuff ----- Original Message -----=20 just a little information that could be interesting to you!!!!! >>> Learn from the mistakes of others ... >>> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were >>> forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be >>> destroyed, a program costing the government more than $500 = million >>> dollars. >>> And now the results are in: >>> >>> Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent; >>> Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; >>> Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 = percent). >>> In the state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300 >>> percent. Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady >>> decrease in armed robbery with firearms (changed drastically in = the past >>> 12 months). There has been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults >>> of >>> the elderly. >>> >>> Australian politicians are on the spot and at a >>> loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been = observed >>> after such monumental effort and expense was successfully >>> expended in "ridding society of guns." >>> >>> Bet you won't see this data on the evening news or hear your governor or >>> members of the state Assembly disseminating this information. = It's time >to >>> state it plainly: Guns in the hands of honest citizens save = lives and >>> property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the law-abiding citizens. >>> Take note, Californians and other Americans, before it's >>> too late! >>> PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST! >>> > >> - ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BFC999.DA851FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John, please provide me (us) with the source for = this=20 information.  I want to forward it to several news broadcasters = that I know=20 to see what, if anything they will do with it, but I want to be = absolutely sure=20 it is 100% accurate before I send it. 
 
Thanks,   Paul
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 John C.=20 Funk, Jr.
To: history line
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 2:18 = PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: NOT = FUR TRADE=20 HISTORY................interesting gun stuff

 
----- Original Message -----

just a little information that could be = interesting to=20 you!!!!!
 >>> Learn from the mistakes of others=20 ...
 >>>=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 >>> It has now been=20 12 months since gun owners in Australia  = were
 >>>=20 forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to = be
 >>>=20 destroyed, a program costing the government more than $500=20 million
 >>> dollars.
 >>> And now = the=20 results are in:
 >>>
 >>> = Australia-wide,=20 homicides are up 3.2 percent;
 >>> Australia-wide, = assaults=20 are up 8.6 percent;
 >>> Australia-wide, armed = robberies=20 are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent).
 >>> In the = state of=20 Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300
 >>> = percent.=20 Figures over the previous 25 years show a = steady
 >>>=20 decrease in armed robbery with firearms (changed drastically in=20 the
past
 >>> 12 months). There has been a = dramatic=20 increase in break-ins and
assaults
 >>>=20 of
 >>> the=20 elderly.
 >>>
 >>> Australian = politicians=20 are on the spot and at a
 >>> loss to explain how = no=20 improvement in "safety" has been observed
 >>> = after such=20 monumental effort and expense was = successfully
 >>> =20 expended in  "ridding society of=20 guns."
 >>>
 >>> Bet you won't see = this=20 data on the evening news or hear=20 your
governor
or
 >>> members of the state = Assembly=20 disseminating this information.=20 It's
time
 >to
 >>> state it plainly: = Guns in=20 the hands of honest citizens save lives
and
 >>> = property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the=20 law-abiding
 citizens.
 >>> Take note, = Californians=20 and other Americans, before it's
 >>> too=20 late!
 >>> PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL = LIST!
 >>>
 >=20 >>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BFC999.DA851FC0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:14:07 EDT From: Htorr@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Australia/NRA Rebuttal There is an interesting article entitled "Australia Says NRA Got It Wrong" Alleges Inaccuracies on Gun Organization's Web Site dated Mar 22, 2000. The web address is: http://www.apbnews.com/newscenter/breakingnews/2000/03/22/aussiegun0322_01.htm l Tom Orr - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:01:40 -0400 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: NOT FUR TRADE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFC9B1.1620B5A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John (or someone)... you accidently sent a vir*us with you emails. Use = Norton or an AntiVir*us to check your system. Ad Miller - ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFC9B1.1620B5A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John (or someone)... you accidently = sent a vir*us=20 with you emails.  Use Norton or an AntiVir*us to check your=20 system.
 
Ad Miller
- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFC9B1.1620B5A0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:12:31 -0600 From: "Terry R. Koenig" Subject: MtMan-List: iron pots The book "Otter Skins, Boston Ships, and China Goods" by James R. Gibson, makes several references to iron pots. On pages 214 -15, the author list the goods shipped to the NW Coast in 1800 onboard the Boston based "Atahualpa." Here along with 5,796 yards of broadcloth, 1,342 blankets, 1,980 yards of duck, 350 muskets, 623 gallons of molasses, 570 kettles and pans, are 301 iron pots. No specifics just "iron pots." Were they cast iron. . . . dunno, but in the same text a coastal Indian complained "that a ship had been given ten prime skins for an iron pot which broke the first time it was put on a fire." (p. 160 fn #163). The U.S. coastal trade was established in about 1788, and continued on through the heyday of the mountain fur trade. While much of the trade was conducted in more northern waters, ships regularly sailed on trading ventures up the Columbia River, which they could navigate up to the vicinity of the confluence of the Willamette with the Columbia. Near here, on the north shore of the Columbia, the British established Fort Vancouver in 1825. From this fort the HBC, launched numerous Snake River Expeditions which were designed to create a fur desert in an effort to ward off the predatory American fur trappers. The Snake River Expedition of 1830 under John Work, consisted of 41 men, 29 women, 22 boys, and 23 girls, for a total of 115. Along with 21 lodges, and 227 horses and mules "to transport themselves and baggage." (See "The Snake Country Expedition of 1830-31, John Works' Field Journal," ed. by Francis D. Haines p. 4) Now mountain men may not have gone to the trouble of packing iron cook pot/s, but if he took up with an Indian female helpmate, his mode of thinking may have changed. Her realm of responsibility included the lodge and such fixins'. She packed this stuff around so one would have to assume that if she wanted iron cook pot/s she damn well had em.' As for the use of dutch ovens, Allen Chronister documented Manuel Lisa being outfitted with a dutch oven for an 1811 expedition to the upper part of the Missouri. (See T&LR Summer "96", p 34 -35) Again no specifics as to size, style, etc. Terry R. Koenig - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:20:02 -0400 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: NOT FUR TRADE HISTORY................interesting gun stuff This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC9B3.A6B87A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My apologies... it was whoever responded to Johns post regarding = Australia.... Ad Miller - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC9B3.A6B87A60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My apologies... it was whoever = responded to Johns=20 post regarding Australia....
 
Ad Miller
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC9B3.A6B87A60-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:46:38 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Waugh! For Mountain Doins Cliff The trap was set about two feet from the bank in about 12 to 14 inches of water. I try to set for a hide foot this was the best I could do with this set do to the river bottom being rocky and dropping strait off two to three feet out from the bank. As it was, it turned out to be a front foot set because that is where the raccoon was caught. I think he seen the shine of the trap in the water and had to mess with it. The set I caught the beaver in was only 30 feet away and set just about the same and I had him high on the hind foot. He does look like Ken now that you mention it. Jill said my old skins were still on a dummy only this new one had hair and was cuter. The Museum is real happy with the display. I want thank all The AMM Brothers that contributed to make it happen we only arranged it and filled in some of the holes. Allen did all the work cataloged every thing and kept the ball a rolling. My hat is off to him. If you think its good now just wait it is only going to get better as time goes on as every thing the AMM does. Thanks Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:42:14 EDT From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Cast ironware at Astoria I've been gone all week so have missed the hullabaloo over Dutch ovens. I note several references to cast iron at Astoria and include the following info for what it's worth. (I believe I have posted this before.) The "Inventory of sundries delivered to the Northwest Company, Astoria, Columbia River, October, 1813" inlcudes: 1 iron cast teakettle (on p. 22) 32 iron pots, weight 193 lbs. (on p. 24, no size other than wieght. 6+ pounds for cast iron??) 1 iron skillet (on p. 25, does not indicate "cast iron") 1 cast iron griddle (on p. 37) This is from "Message from the President of the United States, Communicating the Letter of Mr. Prevost, and other Documents, Relating to an Establishment Made at the Mouth of Columbia River, January 27, 1823." Printed in Washington by Gales & Seaton, 1823. Jim Hardee - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:06:19 -0400 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Planning for a Ronnyvous in Aug/Sep 2001 in W Va This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC9C2.7FDA13E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am trying to plan a Ronnyvous in the Green Brier Valley area of West = Virginia for Aug/Sep 2001. Anyone living in that area, and who may want = to help, please contact me OFF LIST. I am in hopes this can be an annual = event here, sponsored by the City of Alderson. If ths City doesn't want = to do it, the proprietors of Organ Cave said they would be interested. = I've been to lots of them, but have never put one on before... HELP!!!! = *laughs* :) Ad Miller admiller@brier.net - ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC9C2.7FDA13E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am trying to plan a Ronnyvous in the = Green Brier=20 Valley area of West Virginia for Aug/Sep 2001. Anyone living in = that area,=20 and who may want to help, please contact me OFF LIST. I am in hopes this = can be=20 an annual event here, sponsored by the City of Alderson. If ths City = doesn't=20 want to do it, the proprietors of Organ Cave said they would be = interested.=20 I've been to lots of them, but have never put one on before... HELP!!!!=20 *laughs*  :)
 
Ad Miller
admiller@brier.net
- ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC9C2.7FDA13E0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:07:36 -0400 From: "D Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Planning for a Ronnyvous in Aug/Sep 2001 in W Va You must be really bored Ad... Or borderline psycotic... D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:17:40 -0400 From: "John Hunt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Planning for a Ronnyvous in Aug/Sep 2001 in W Va I`m bored Dennis tell us a tale John (BIG JOHN) Hunt Longhunter Mountainman southwest Ohio - ----- Original Message ----- From: D Miles To: Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 8:08 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Planning for a Ronnyvous in Aug/Sep 2001 in W Va > You must be really bored Ad... Or borderline psycotic... > D > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements > http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 > "Knowing how is just the beginning" > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:19:19 EDT From: Iambrainey@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Memorial day thought (off topic) Credit: Andi Vaught He was getting old and paunchy, And his hair was falling fast, And he sat around the Legion, Telling stories of the past. Of a war that he had fought in And the deeds that he had done. In his exploits with his buddies; They were heroes, everyone. And 'tho sometimes, to his neighbors, His tales became a joke, All his buddies listened, For they knew whereof he spoke. But we'll hear his tales no longer, For ol' Bob has passed away, And the world's a little poorer, For a soldier died today. He won't be mourned by many, Just his children and his wife. For he lived an ordinary, Very quiet sort of life. He held a job and raised a family, Quietly going on his way; And the world won't note his passing; 'Tho a Soldier died today. When politicians leave this earth, Their bodies lie in state, While thousands note their passing, And proclaim they're great. Papers tell of their life stories, From the time that they were young, But the passing of a soldier, Goes unnoticed, and unsung. Is the greatest contribution, To the welfare of our land, Some jerk who breaks his promise, And cons his fellow man? Or the ordinary fellow, Who in times of war and strife, Goes off to serve his Country And offers up his life? The politician's stipend And the style in which he lives, Are sometimes disproportionate, To the service he gives. While the ordinary soldier, Who offered up his all, Is paid off with a medal And perhaps a pension, small. It's so easy to forget them, For it is so long ago, That our Bob's and Jim's and Johnny's, Went to battle, but we know. It was not the politicians, With their compromise and ploys, Who won for us the freedom, That our Country now enjoys. Should you find yourself in danger, With your enemies at hand, Would you really want some cop-out, With his ever waffling stand? Or would you want a Soldier, Who has sworn to defend, His home, his kin, and Country, And would fight until the end? He was just a common Soldier And his ranks are growing thin, But his presence should remind us, We may need his likes again. For when countries are in conflict, Then we find the Soldier's part, Is to clean up all the troubles, That the politicians start. If we cannot do him honor, While he's here to hear the praise, Then at least let's give him homage, At the ending of his days. Perhaps just a simple headline, In the paper that might say: "OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, For a Soldier died today" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:36:59 -0500 From: don neighbors Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial day thought (off topic) very, very nice......!!!!!! Iambrainey@aol.com wrote: > Credit: Andi Vaught > > > > He was getting old and paunchy, And his hair was falling fast, > > And he sat around the Legion, Telling stories of the past. > > Of a war that he had fought in And the deeds that he had done. > > In his exploits with his buddies; They were heroes, everyone. > > And 'tho sometimes, to his neighbors, His tales became a joke, > > All his buddies listened, For they knew whereof he spoke. > > But we'll hear his tales no longer, For ol' Bob has passed away, > > And the world's a little poorer, For a soldier died today. > > He won't be mourned by many, Just his children and his wife. > > For he lived an ordinary, Very quiet sort of life. > > He held a job and raised a family, Quietly going on his way; > > And the world won't note his passing; 'Tho a Soldier died today. > > When politicians leave this earth, Their bodies lie in state, > > While thousands note their passing, And proclaim they're great. > > Papers tell of their life stories, From the time that they were young, > > But the passing of a soldier, Goes unnoticed, and unsung. > > Is the greatest contribution, To the welfare of our land, > > Some jerk who breaks his promise, And cons his fellow man? > > Or the ordinary fellow, Who in times of war and strife, > > Goes off to serve his Country And offers up his life? > > The politician's stipend And the style in which he lives, > > Are sometimes disproportionate, To the service he gives. > > While the ordinary soldier, Who offered up his all, > > Is paid off with a medal And perhaps a pension, small. > > It's so easy to forget them, For it is so long ago, > > That our Bob's and Jim's and Johnny's, Went to battle, but we know. > > It was not the politicians, With their compromise and ploys, > > Who won for us the freedom, That our Country now enjoys. > > Should you find yourself in danger, With your enemies at hand, > > Would you really want some cop-out, With his ever waffling stand? > > Or would you want a Soldier, Who has sworn to defend, > > His home, his kin, and Country, And would fight until the end? > > He was just a common Soldier And his ranks are growing thin, > > But his presence should remind us, We may need his likes again. > > For when countries are in conflict, Then we find the Soldier's part, > > Is to clean up all the troubles, That the politicians start. > > If we cannot do him honor, While he's here to hear the praise, > > Then at least let's give him homage, At the ending of his days. > > Perhaps just a simple headline, In the paper that might say: > > "OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, For a Soldier died today" > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:30:16 -0500 From: don neighbors Subject: MtMan-List: to whom it may concern To the person that called me a nazi, I am not!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am intitled to what I think is right, just like Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin and George Washington!!!!! Iambrainey@aol.com wrote: > Credit: Andi Vaught > > > > He was getting old and paunchy, And his hair was falling fast, > > And he sat around the Legion, Telling stories of the past. > > Of a war that he had fought in And the deeds that he had done. > > In his exploits with his buddies; They were heroes, everyone. > > And 'tho sometimes, to his neighbors, His tales became a joke, > > All his buddies listened, For they knew whereof he spoke. > > But we'll hear his tales no longer, For ol' Bob has passed away, > > And the world's a little poorer, For a soldier died today. > > He won't be mourned by many, Just his children and his wife. > > For he lived an ordinary, Very quiet sort of life. > > He held a job and raised a family, Quietly going on his way; > > And the world won't note his passing; 'Tho a Soldier died today. > > When politicians leave this earth, Their bodies lie in state, > > While thousands note their passing, And proclaim they're great. > > Papers tell of their life stories, From the time that they were young, > > But the passing of a soldier, Goes unnoticed, and unsung. > > Is the greatest contribution, To the welfare of our land, > > Some jerk who breaks his promise, And cons his fellow man? > > Or the ordinary fellow, Who in times of war and strife, > > Goes off to serve his Country And offers up his life? > > The politician's stipend And the style in which he lives, > > Are sometimes disproportionate, To the service he gives. > > While the ordinary soldier, Who offered up his all, > > Is paid off with a medal And perhaps a pension, small. > > It's so easy to forget them, For it is so long ago, > > That our Bob's and Jim's and Johnny's, Went to battle, but we know. > > It was not the politicians, With their compromise and ploys, > > Who won for us the freedom, That our Country now enjoys. > > Should you find yourself in danger, With your enemies at hand, > > Would you really want some cop-out, With his ever waffling stand? > > Or would you want a Soldier, Who has sworn to defend, > > His home, his kin, and Country, And would fight until the end? > > He was just a common Soldier And his ranks are growing thin, > > But his presence should remind us, We may need his likes again. > > For when countries are in conflict, Then we find the Soldier's part, > > Is to clean up all the troubles, That the politicians start. > > If we cannot do him honor, While he's here to hear the praise, > > Then at least let's give him homage, At the ending of his days. > > Perhaps just a simple headline, In the paper that might say: > > "OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, For a Soldier died today" > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:59:26 -0700 From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Canteens According to my reading and understanding of the times, the original mountain men disdained the use of canteens, which was noted with some surprise by several of the journal writers. Presumably with the freedom to roam open country they counted on finding water for the night's camp, as would be necessary for the horses as well as the men. Sometimes, finding a suitable spot was delayed, which occasioned considerable thirst and griping. Most travelling was done in fairly well-watered areas, where there would also be game, and of course they sought beaver country. Only upon making a desert crossing would they resort to making up water skins or the like which are also noted as exceptional activities. I'm sorry I can't cite specific sources from memory but I think these facts are well known. In these times of course we do not have the freedom to camp anywhere or choose the best spots, hence a need for augmenting water supplies. American soldiers were said to prefer the wooden hooped canteens despite their bulk because the water stayed cooler then in a metal canteen. Wax-lined gourd canteens are nice, although somewhat delicate. If the wax cracks due to rough handling the gourd begins to deteriorate which may even create an unwholesome condition. I have settled on a tin-lined rev-war style copper canteen which holds about 2 quarts and keeps the water a little cooler since I wrapped it in blanketing. I've never had a problem with off-taste, although I use a given batch of water within a day or so. Yr Ob't S'vt Pat Quilter - -----Original Message----- From: tom roberts [mailto:troberts@gdi.net] Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 10:45 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Canteens In between projects I've wandered through the archives and came across a topic of interest. I thought I would raise this again to see if there's any new thinking. In the "Invoice of Sundry Merchandise from the Rocky Mountain Outfit 1836 under charge of Fontenelle, Fitzpatrick, & Co." there is a listing for (9) India Rubber Canteens and (28) iron bound canteens. There's not much other reference, which causes me to speculate (as did earlier list members) that carrying water was just not that important to these fellows, who probably stayed very close to what was an abundant supply of (then) very clean water. It is our modern outdoor experiences and training and logic which dictates that we carry some device for containing drinking water. Given we make this choice, the next question is what shall this device be to remain as correct as possible, and I suggest that gourds and bottles would be a lesser choice due to their fragility. One would then default to either the military copper canteen or a hooped wooden canteen (am I correct to assume this is the "iron bound canteen" in the ledger??). Or is their another option not considered? Skins or bladders are certainly viable but do not really meet the "durability" test. Your thoughts? Tom - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #566 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.