From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #577 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, June 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 577 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items -       Re: MtMan-List: guns plans -       Re: MtMan-List: Stirrups -       Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items -       Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items -       MtMan-List: Wedding rings? -       Re: MtMan-List: Wedding rings? -       Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items -       MtMan-List: Antlers -       Re: MtMan-List: Antlers -       RE: MtMan-List: Old Hat -       Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items -       MtMan-List: Leroy Hafen / mt. men and fur trade -       Re: MtMan-List: Antlers -       MtMan-List: Wind River Trip -       Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat -       Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat -       Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat -       Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat -       Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat -       Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat -       MtMan-List: Fort Shoots & Fast Loading -       MtMan-List: Colfax, WA Rendezvous -       MtMan-List: Antlers -       MtMan-List: Email Problem -       Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items -       Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #575 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 17:57:11 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items Pepermint was also used for toothaches. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 19:02:28 -0600 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: guns plans A few years ago on your television program "Objective" there was a production by Peter Semelka about American Mountain Men and it had some pictures of a few early guns. You might want to check that out and perhaps even get in touch with Peter. Bill C - ----- Original Message ----- From: Pavel Grund To: veřejná konference US MM Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 1:17 PM Subject: MtMan-List: guns plans > Hallo! > My friend is collector of historic arms plans. Is anybody agreeable send it > into Czech? Mainly interesting are arms from American Revolution, "NORTH > WEST TRADE GUN", technically interesting arms, guns, rifles, pistols and > percussion revolver transformed for metal cartridge. > Peggy > p.s. I have new e-mail by technical cause: pavel.grund@worldonline.cz or > peggy@wo.cz > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 19:06:34 -0600 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Stirrups In my book, "Lighting Grandma's Fire" I show how to make them. Bill C - ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Hall To: Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 12:24 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Stirrups > At 08:31 PM 06/17/2000 -0600, you wrote: > >Can anyone tell me about the Indian style stirrups that Miller shows many > of the RMFT using? > > > >YMOS > > > >WY > > I've got a Bob Schmit saddle with the Indian style stirrups, and I really > like them. They give a wide platform, and for riding with moccasins that's > really nice on the feet. > > Allen > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1980 18:58:14 -0600 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items "Ron Chamberlain" asked: >>Are the following used as medicines? 1/2 dz turlington<< That's short for "Turlington's Balsam of Life", an English patent medicine, aka compound tincture of benzoin (whatever the heck that is!). It was traded to Canadian Natives as early as 1790, and quite possibly earlier; many broken bottles show up in fur post excavations. The Voyageur's Sketchbook has an illustration of a bottle. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:38:54 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items Again, Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary: BENZOIN' BEN'JAMIN, n. Gum benjamin; a concrete resinous juice flowing from the = Styrax Benzoin, a tree of Sumatra, &c. It is properly a balsam, as it = yields benzoic acid. It flows from incisions made in the stem or = branches. It is solid and brittle, sometimes in yellowish white tears = joined together by a brown substance, and sometimes of a uniform brown = substance like resin. It has little taste, but its smell, especially = when rubbed or heated, is extremely fragrant and agreeable. It is = chiefly used in cosmetics and perfumes. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:47:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Susan Gilbert" Subject: MtMan-List: Wedding rings? While at an event this weekend (Prairie du Chien, WI.) my husband asked a question no one seemed able to answer. He noticed wedding rings on most of the folks and asked if they were common in our period of interest. I have not got a clue, and after looking in all my books, am no further along in finding out. So I'm putting it to you knowledgeable people, were wedding rings "en vogue" at this time? enquiring minds want to know, Sue Gilbert 6 Beaver Camp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:45:01 -0600 From: "Ron Chamberlain" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wedding rings? Taken from http://www.weddinguide.com/lore.html Ancient Romans believed that the third finger of the left hand was directly connected to the heart by a vein called "vena amoris" or vein of love. The history of the wedding ring goes back as far as caveman days when a young man would bind his lady friend's wrists and ankles to keep her under control until he married her. In ancient Rome the wedding ring took the form of a slave bracelet which was worn by the wife for all to see that she was spoken for. The Egyptians were the first ancient race to wear the ring on the finger - the circular band represented a heavenly sign of life, happiness and love, as the circle had no beginning and no end. <(©ż©)> roncham@ida.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 21:15:45 -0700 From: "Michael W. Finnie" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items Another use of Glaubers salts is in textile dyeing processes. Perhaps a catalyst of some sort >Are the following used as medicines? >5 lbs Glauber Salts ymhs Mike - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 00:47:11 EDT From: Squinty54@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Antlers I am trying to make several items out of antler: a powder measure, a case to hold needles and awl. I have read several accounts where these items would have been made from antlers, As I began working with the antler I found it to be rather tough to hollow out. Beside resorting to the totally unauthentic power drill to hollow it out....how would it have been done in the late 1700's early 1800"s. I'm sure someone on this list has done it . Would you be so kind as to share your experience? Thanks....Steve - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 06:39:08 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antlers Read somewhere that antlers were burned (bored) with an iron rod and scraped to create the necessary hole(s). John Funk - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:45:46 -0700 From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Old Hat I imagine if you soaked it in hot or boiling water you would achieve the same effect as steaming. Plain water just takes longer I think. For what it's worth, my hat pattern has the moderately high crown and brim of the standard cowboy hat - I just left the crown round, and the brim slowly slumped into the "hillbilly" shape. Friends have been encouraging me to flip up the brim although I don't mind the "poky" look myself. The old pictures show a rather low crown and about the same brim as a cowboy hat. Best regards Pat Q - -----Original Message----- From: tom roberts [mailto:troberts@gdi.net] Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 8:40 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat Pat, Thanks for the reply. Our hats are similar. I agree completely about value and about memories! My desire was motivated from the more practical aspect of the wider brim offering more shade - a health concern for me. After (hopefully) re-achieving the desired shape I was figuring to use the same technique I use on tarps to lessen the effects of future moisture. I've been shaping a head-size wooden block and am attempting to improvise a press of sorts. Wasn't sure whether just soaking the hat would suffice (not much trouble) or whether steaming (probably too much trouble) would be required. Tom Pat Quilter wrote: > Gee, a lot of people would value that "tired old hat" as a memento of much > time in the sun and rain. My hat is the first thing I bought and has > outlasted several outfits, many outings, and a few wrecks. However, the felt > can be reshaped with heat and moisture, which will soften the glue holding > the fibers. You may need to improvise something in the shape of your head to > hold the crown steady while you flatten the brim (hatmakers have an > adjustable device for this purpose). Presumably it will tend to return to > the funnel shape after more hard use. This must have been a fact of life in > the old days too. Best of luck > Pat Quilter > > -----Original Message----- > From: tom roberts [mailto:troberts@gdi.net] > Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 1:25 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Old Hat > > Anyone have suggestions on reshaping a tired old hat which > has sagged to funnel shape, or should I just break down and > replace it? > > Tom > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:00:43 -0400 From: manbear Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items Ron Chamberlain wrote: > What are: > 1 dz knee straps? Could be like the straps or short sashes that voyageurs used around their knees to keep from blowing them out when carrying heavy bundles. > > > > Are the following used as medicines? > 1/2 dz turlington If you'd like to know more about Turlington's Balsam check out this web page: http://www.antiquebottles.com/turlington/ Manbear - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:37:54 -0400 From: "James Zeigler" Subject: MtMan-List: Leroy Hafen / mt. men and fur trade Hello List: I had inquired about the reprinting of Hafens' series : Mt Men and the Fur Trade,to the publisher, Arthur H Clark Co. And their reply was the following: At this time only vol 1 is going to be reprinted. If we are able to acquire enough interest and confirmed orders for the remainder of the series we will give it serious consideration. Vol 1 is currently at the printer and should be available in approximately 6 weeks. We will keep your order in our files and notify you when the book is received. Sincerely Arthur H. Clark Co. P. O. Box 14707 Spokane, WA 99214 800-842-9286 FAX 509-928-4364 clarkbks@soar.com web site: www.ahclark.com Let.s hope that they can get enough feedback to reprint the whole series. Please be assured I am not connected in any way with the above Co. Just trying to relay some useful information....Jim Z. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:32:36 -0500 From: "jdearing" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antlers > Read somewhere that antlers were burned (bored) with an iron rod and scraped > to create the necessary hole(s). > John Funk > > A much less smelly method would be to gouge a starting hole with the point of a knife , dribble a little sand in the hole and twirl a seasoned hard wood stick in the hole. It helps to clamp the antler in some sort of vise, improvised of course, and spin the stick with the palms of your hands as if starting a fire with a fire drill. Or, knap a drill point and haft that to make a drill, used as above, or as a bow drill. J.D. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:56:06 -0600 From: Todd D Glover Subject: MtMan-List: Wind River Trip Gentlemen, A couple of the boys and I are heading out tomorrow for the headwaters of the seedskedee (Green River) up in the Wind River range. We'll scout around for sign and generally enjoy some of Gods fineset sculpturing. Of course we'll have to drop by the museum to see first and what Allen and the others have been up to. Keep the fire goin here and I'll report on all the doins when I return. (26th) From Jed Smith's "Home in the Wilderness", I am..... "Teton" Todd D. Glover Poison River Party - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:12:58 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat >I imagine if you soaked it in hot or boiling water you would achieve the same effect as steaming. >>Pat, If you put a felt hat in boiling water, it can shrink a lot. Like about 3 or 4 sizes. Just FYI. Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:54:35 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat > >I imagine if you soaked it in hot or boiling water you would achieve the > same effect as steaming. Why not just iron the brim with a steam iron and clamp it in a hat press made from masonite? It's what we did with our "Smoky" hats. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:47:40 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat > Why not just iron the brim with a steam iron and clamp it in a hat press made > from masonite? A further caution. I made up a hat a few years ago from a blank. Put in a leather hat band and trimmed the rim of the brim where it had been griped by the stretchers. Then I ironed the brim to flatten it out and shrunk the hat a size or so from the steam getting too close to the hat band area. Make a mold to slide inside the hat band area or take your chances. I'd cut one out of 2X 12 material or thicker so that the band didn't change sizes on me if I were to do it again. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:08:56 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat I have an old hat that is beginning to look less like Jim Bridger's hat = and more like Snuffy Smith's...smells like a chimney flue from all the = fires it has fanned and is getting a little long in the tooth. Wouldn't = change it or fix it up for any reason. I might retire it someday, but = its well earned patina will stay. Just my opinion. =20 Lanney Ratcliff - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:39:48 -0400 From: tom roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat We're thinking alike. I've made a solid blank to fit the entire crown and have fastened it to a sheet of plywood. Another sheet of plywood has been bored and radiused to fit over the crown providing the top half of the press. Some steam, a few block clamps, and we'll see how it goes. Like someone else (Pat I think) said earlier, it's gonna return to it's "relaxed" state again anyways. Not too much to lose. Just a woodworker with way too much time on his hands. Tom Roger Lahti wrote: > > Why not just iron the brim with a steam iron and clamp it in a hat press > made > > from masonite? > > A further caution. I made up a hat a few years ago from a blank. Put in a > leather hat band and trimmed the rim of the brim where it had been griped by > the stretchers. Then I ironed the brim to flatten it out and shrunk the hat > a size or so from the steam getting too close to the hat band area. Make > a mold to slide inside the hat band area or take your chances. I'd cut > one out of 2X 12 material or thicker so that the band didn't change sizes on > me if I were to do it again. I remain..... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:48:53 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Hat > Some steam, a few block clamps, and we'll see how > it goes. Like someone else (Pat I think) said earlier, > it's gonna return to it's "relaxed" state again anyways. > Not too much to lose. As an afterthought, a little spray starch applied to the brim after the steaming and before the pressing can work wonders for a while. The process can be repeated each time the hat gets wet, without having to re-steam it. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:23:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Fort Shoots & Fast Loading Good Day All We (the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders), just finished up our annual Rendezvous, fortunately blessed by good weather. One of the events we put on was a fort shoot, in which one person had to sit or crouch (their preference), load and shoot at three targets under time. The event started with an uloaded gun, and the clock stopped at the third hit. After reading some of the recent mail from the list, I went with a loose patch/ball combo and tried my luck. Laid out all my gear on my shooting bag flap in preparation. Realized a little too late that the whang I keep my measure on was about 6" too short for loading from the crouch... kinda messed up my system when the shooting bag rose majestically off the ground spilling balls, flints, patches, etc every which way Lost a bit more time unhooking the measure and dumping more balls on the ground! I still averaged about 1 minute, 4 seconds per shot. Most of the averages fell somewhere at just above a minute, including the fella who loaded without patches. The winner of the event, won it through organization and never missing a step. What surprised me was that he won shooting his flinter, using patched balls, and had an average of 50 seconds between shots. I had kinda figgered the cappers would run away with this event... just goes to show.... you never know. Your Most Obedient Servant... Lee Newbill of North Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders www.geocities.com/northscribe - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:25:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Colfax, WA Rendezvous Hallo Just a reminder to those in the area, that the Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders will be holding their Rendezvous from the 23-25 of June. Your Most Obedient Servant... Lee Newbill of North Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders www.geocities.com/northscribe - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:45:57 EDT From: Squinty54@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Antlers For those that may be interested.....you can boil an antler which softens the inner matter. It then scrapes out fairly easily. Much like preparing(cleaning out) a horn. One word of caution though....use an old pan. My wife is not to happy about the "stuff" in the pan. Took me longer to clean the pan than hollow out the antler. Steve - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:03:34 -0400 From: "Dennis Miles" Subject: MtMan-List: Email Problem Pardon my intrusion.. Due to circumstances and email gremlins, anyone that has sent a request to me for a price or project since noon 19 June, please re-submit it... I am not ignoring you, I didn't get it. Thanks Much Dennis Miles DOUBLE EDGE FORGE http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:48:31 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items Ron, Could also be for holding up their Soc's. Knee Garters? YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: manbear >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items >Date: Mon, Jun 19, 2000, 1:00 PM > > > >Ron Chamberlain wrote: > >> What are: >> 1 dz knee straps? > >Could be like the straps or short sashes that voyageurs used around their >knees to keep from blowing them out when carrying heavy bundles. > >> >> >> >> Are the following used as medicines? >> 1/2 dz turlington > >If you'd like to know more about Turlington's Balsam check out this web >page: > > http://www.antiquebottles.com/turlington/ > > >Manbear > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:40:42 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ole B. Jensen" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 6:48 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Unknown Items > Ron, > Could also be for holding up their Soc's. Knee Garters? > YMOS > Ole # 718 Ole, I agree. I also believe that the style of wearing knee breeches, knee socks and relatively short leggings just over the knee was fashionable in the RMFT until quit late. Obviously, the sketches by Miller show the "tight legged" full length pantaloon to be the more common leg covering in the "30's" but haven't we even seen a pair of knee breeches in his work too? Knee straps (with buckles) are the accessory of choice when wearing knee britches and leggings or just knee socks (learned from practical application). A simple thong tied around the leg below the knee will work too and that is perhaps the reason for such a small order. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:43:20 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #575 - --------------7234170628463D5C527633CB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karl, Did you get a answer for the question on getting clothes and patterns? If not you might check out Past Patterns or Eagle View. I like Past Patterns best. Dixie Gun Works and Track of the Wolf (amoung others) handle these and they can get you off to a good start. You will find Eagle's View to be very basic and easy to sew. If you need any more help, let me know. mike. my web pages Karl Kroll wrote: > What is the easiest low cost way to get suitable warm weather clothing (not > leather) for a rendezvous. Are there any brands of modern clothes that can > be easily modified so they look period correct? If needed I can get clothes > sewn for me if I have a pattern. (Where does a guy buy patterns?) > The clothes would have to look authentic enough so I would not detract from > the event. I also need clothes for my 11 year old daughter. > > Thank you > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --------------7234170628463D5C527633CB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karl,
    Did you get a answer for the question on getting clothes and patterns?
If not you  might check out Past Patterns or Eagle View. I like Past Patterns
best. Dixie Gun Works and Track of the Wolf (amoung others) handle these
and they can get you off to a good start. You will find Eagle's View to be very
basic and easy to sew. If you need any more help, let me know.
                                        mike.

 my web pages

Karl Kroll wrote:

What is the easiest low cost way to get suitable warm weather clothing (not
leather) for a rendezvous.  Are there any brands of modern clothes that can
be easily modified so they look period correct?  If needed I can get clothes
sewn for me if I have a pattern.  (Where does a guy buy patterns?)
The clothes would have to look authentic enough so I would not detract from
the event.  I also need clothes for my 11 year old daughter.

Thank you

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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