From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #676 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 676 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -       MtMan-List: Mixed Bloods -       Re: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers -       Re: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers -       Re: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers -       Re: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers -       RE: Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition reference -       RE: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition had a tipi? -       Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves -       MtMan-List: Tipis & mixed-bloods -       MtMan-List: Lewis and Clark expedition -       Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves -       Re: MtMan-List: Hemp -       Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves -       Re: MtMan-List: Mixed Bloods ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:52:30 -0700 From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C05273.039FE0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to add a suggestion to Dave Kanger little rope making = instructions. When I made my horse hair rope a while back I drilled a = hole through the dowel that I was spinning and put a large bolt through = the hole. Then by holding the bolt and twirling the dowel around, the = rope twisted as he described. Hopefully that makes sense. Also, this = rope making stuff is really a cinch if the materials you are making it = from are already in a string type form. It works the same way with = short fibers like horse hair but you have to get the fibers to bind = together and "meter" them out to a consistant thickness as a partner = twirls.=20 My rope has guided my old war horse over many miles since it was made = and has put up with being chewed on by a mule more than once. I would = recommend horsehair ropes for lots of uses (when wrapped around a horses = leg and struggled against, it do not burn horse flesh like every other = kind of rope I have tried) but it is danged expensive either in dollars = or effort. =20 Humbly WY - ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C05273.039FE0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would like to add a suggestion to = Dave Kanger=20 little rope making instructions.  When I made my horse hair rope a = while=20 back I drilled a hole through the dowel that I was spinning and put a = large bolt=20 through the hole.  Then by holding the bolt and twirling the dowel = around,=20 the rope twisted as he described.  Hopefully that makes = sense.  Also,=20 this rope making stuff is really a cinch if the materials you are making = it from=20 are already in a string type form.  It works the same way with = short fibers=20 like horse hair but you have to get the fibers to bind together and = "meter" them=20 out to a consistant thickness as a partner twirls. 
 
My rope has guided my old war horse = over many miles=20 since it was made and has put up with being chewed on by a mule more = than=20 once.  I would recommend horsehair ropes for lots of uses (when = wrapped=20 around a horses leg and struggled against, it do not burn  horse = flesh like=20 every other kind of rope I have tried) but it is danged expensive either = in=20 dollars or effort. 
 
Humbly
WY
- ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C05273.039FE0E0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:52:36 -0700 From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Mixed Bloods This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C05273.0717F0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom Said . . . . . or antione clement and his little brother Pierre, who came = out with captain Stuart. =3D I believe I have seen Antione's name as one of those who were near the = Great Basin in 1824-25 and tranfered his services to the Americans at = that time. I thought that I got that list of names from this list and = had kept it but I can not find it so maybe it was on Dean's list. At = any rate, it does not materially change the point of Tom's post but I = have thought of Antione as one of the ol' timers, am I wrong? Humbly=20 WY - ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C05273.0717F0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tom Said
. . . . .  or antione clement and = his little=20 brother Pierre, who came out with captain Stuart. =3D
 
 
I believe I have seen Antione's name as = one of=20 those who were near the Great Basin in 1824-25 and tranfered his = services to the=20 Americans at that time.  I thought that I got that list of = names from=20 this list and had kept it but I can not find it so maybe it was on = Dean's=20 list.  At any rate, it does not materially change the point of = Tom's post=20 but I have thought of Antione as one of the ol' timers, am I = wrong?
 
Humbly
WY

 
- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C05273.0717F0A0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 00:55:50 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers I've got one question for you on this tipis thing. How does one tell the difference between hide tipis and canvas tipis from an artist painting or drawing? Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 22:47:33 -0800 From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers I am familar with the Swiss artist from his work on Meti dress but don't remember any canvas tipi paintings or sketches. Maybe Walt can enlighten me. I am also familar with the Metis pictured in the Minnesota Historical Society collection. I use their web site fequently. These photos of the Pembina Red River trade are from no earlier than the mid-1850s. It's the earlier 1810 date I'm interested in. Thanks, Larry Huber - ----- Original Message ----- From: Terrance Luff To: Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 8:19 PM Subject: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers > OK > you have caught me with out some of reach papers. walt, i belive that the > artis i was speaking of is in the papers in the brief case that you have. > also why don,t you, just go a head and send that artical i read you from > that past metis news letter to the list. working off the top of my head ,the > swiss artist peter rindisbacher done some work on the metis also he had some > on the buffalo metis. angla, i'm i in the date peiod.? also the history > society of minnesota holds some pictures of metis camps on the praires > showing both hides and cavas tipis,look close at these.are there flags > flying from poles? i am sorry if i step on some canadian toe's, did not mean > to. most of my research is on the montana metis. just that,with the > different metis rodee's or pow wows i have taken part in the metis history > seens to tie in ,in both countrys. > having been in buckskinning from 60 s and the history part, i have found > that the metis history seems to be a different world. you must remimber in > look at some history (writen) . some was held back by the translator then by > author to keep the person from trouble. also you,when trying to redo > history, should take the human side. after dwelling in books and > interviewing metis people. the metis were here and did leave thier tracks > early in history. i given my ref, time and agian . bythe way it is a > loaded keg. > > > w > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 06:44:37 -0800 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers Actually you do not unless the artist puts the lines in for either. And, in all my drawings and paintings I have not seen the lines for canvas. Seen some very bad hide tipis. In "old" time photos you can just barely see the lines. Then lets' see when the art of photography came into being. Linda GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: > I've got one question for you on this tipis thing. How does one tell the > difference between hide tipis and canvas tipis from an artist painting or > drawing? > Crazy Cyot > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 06:46:15 -0800 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers I am also familiar with these pictures and agree with Larry, they are of a different time period. Would love to see something earlier. Linda Holley Larry Huber wrote: > I am familar with the Swiss artist from his work on Meti dress but don't > remember any canvas tipi paintings or sketches. Maybe Walt can enlighten > me. I am also familar with the Metis pictured in the Minnesota Historical > Society collection. I use their web site fequently. These photos of the > Pembina Red River trade are from no earlier than the mid-1850s. It's the > earlier 1810 date I'm interested in. > Thanks, > > Larry Huber > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Terrance Luff > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 8:19 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers > > > OK > > you have caught me with out some of reach papers. walt, i belive that the > > artis i was speaking of is in the papers in the brief case that you have. > > also why don,t you, just go a head and send that artical i read you from > > that past metis news letter to the list. working off the top of my head > ,the > > swiss artist peter rindisbacher done some work on the metis also he had > some > > on the buffalo metis. angla, i'm i in the date peiod.? also the history > > society of minnesota holds some pictures of metis camps on the praires > > showing both hides and cavas tipis,look close at these.are there flags > > flying from poles? i am sorry if i step on some canadian toe's, did not > mean > > to. most of my research is on the montana metis. just that,with the > > different metis rodee's or pow wows i have taken part in the metis history > > seens to tie in ,in both countrys. > > having been in buckskinning from 60 s and the history part, i have found > > that the metis history seems to be a different world. you must remimber in > > look at some history (writen) . some was held back by the translator then > by > > author to keep the person from trouble. also you,when trying to redo > > history, should take the human side. after dwelling in books and > > interviewing metis people. the metis were here and did leave thier tracks > > early in history. i given my ref, time and agian . bythe way it is a > > loaded keg. > > > > > > w > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 04:45:10 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition reference This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C052AC.AA46E7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2. BEFORE LEWIS & CLARK-DOCUMENTS ILLUSTRATING THE HISTORY OF THE MISSOURI 1785-1804 by A.P.Nasatir (2 vol set) ISBN 0-8032-8362-8 Hello Buck, Last Monday I had the opportunity to read the first thirty pages of Vol. 2. Some interesting reading regarding the mixed blood at issue in the rocky mountain fur trade. There appear to be six different directions the mixed blood poured in here, that is on the upper Missouri/Yellowstone environs at least. Dorion and son are mentioned in the context of Lewis and Clark and the rocky mountain fur trade south and west of Yellowstone Park. Next time I am in the museum by the Billings airport I hope to get another read in the near future. And pick up where I left off. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C052AC.AA46E7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2. = BEFORE LEWIS & CLARK-DOCUMENTS ILLUSTRATING
THE = HISTORY OF THE MISSOURI 1785-1804 by
A.P.Nasatir (2 vol set) ISBN 0-8032-8362-8

Hello Buck,

 

Last Monday I had the opportunity to read the first thirty pages of Vol. 2.  Some interesting reading = regarding the mixed blood at issue in the rocky mountain fur trade.  There appear to be six different directions the mixed = blood poured in here, that is on the upper Missouri/Yellowstone environs at = least.  Dorion and son are mentioned = in the context of Lewis and Clark and the rocky mountain fur trade south and = west of Yellowstone Park.  Next time I am in = the museum by the Billings airport I hope to get another read in the near = future.  And pick up where I left = off.

 

 

Wa= lt

Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837

Clark = Bottom Rendezvous

Yellowsto= ne Canoe Camp

On the = Lewis & Clark Trail

Park = City, Montana

<= span class=3DEmailStyle17> 


 <= /p>

- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C052AC.AA46E7C0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 04:45:14 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi Don't know if anybody's mentioned it yet, but Allen Chronister had an article on this very topic in the last Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly. Good research. In short, he gives evidence that cloth tipi covers can be documented as early as 1846 (Lakotas). There was another article on canvas tipi covers in the MFTQ Fall '84. And Marcy mentions canvas tipi covers in "Prairie Traveler" (1859) http://kuhttp.cc.ukans.edu/carrie/kancoll/books/marcy/index.html. This pushes the documentable date back earlier than 1870's, but doesn't quite get you to 1800. If you're a stickler for authenticity and want to document cloth tipi's that early, you could try looking in HBC records for huge purchases of cloth by indians - a tipi would require - what - 50 yards or more? - -Dean Hello Dean, Walt Marten has a Lewis and Clark reference to a tipi being brought up river 1805. There is a 50/50 chance that this was the first cloth tipi in what is now called Montana. The small tipi was for the use of the guides and carried on the big boat. With the wet conditions and sail clothe being available within the expedition. A small cloth tipi of 10-12 foot in diameter does not take anywhere near 50 yards of material. I will see Walt Marten at the Stillwater County Lewis and Clark Bicentennial Commission meeting on the 20th and I will arrange to get the reference. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:20:56 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition had a tipi? This is a new one on me maybe someone can enlighten me on this. Did they hall along the poles or did they cut new ones at every camp they made? Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:35:30 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves Just a quick smoke-signal from the 21st century engineering office..... ANY object (stove, rock, lantern) that approaches incandescence (dull glow in subdued light) can produce carbon monoxide. If it is too hot to touch briefly, it can kill you. The less free oxygen that's available (i.e. in a closed space), the more carbon monoxide is produced. Travel safe. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:46:19 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: Tipis & mixed-bloods Angela Gottfred wrote about Iroquois in the western fur trade.... I will look that book up and have a read. I know from our oral history (in which I put a lot of faith) and from our Canadian "history books" (which I trust only a little), the northern trade routes were dominated by the French, the French allies and the Huron for a long time, this includes the upper Great Lakes, Lake of the Woods, and the Winnipeg River. This is why, in this part of the country, mixed-blood was almost always French. The Huron were incited by the French and the Iroquois by the British in a running war that went on for a long time and wiped out two Indian Nations who were stuck between (the Tobaccos and the Neutrals). After generations of skirmishing, when the Iroquois got pi##ed off enough to move against the Huron and exterminated them, I don't know what happened to the trade routes. I can only assume that the Iroquois took control of the northern route, but I have heard nothing here (Manitoba) among the Anishinabe or early records of Iroquois involvement in local trade. Very interesting..... Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:05:50 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis and Clark expedition Ethan Sudman asked, Ethan, a simple Internet search will pull up the complete, original, digest of the expedition. The book "From Sea to Shining Sea" by James Alexander Thom is a very exciting fictionalized, but accurate, rendition of the event. I highly recommend it. I found my copy in paperback in a used book store. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:17:11 EST From: Elkflea@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves Greetings: The recent discussion of the potential for carbon monoxide poisoning from combustive heating/open fires or stoves within shelters has raised my curiosity. Does anyone know of any situations where aboriginal americans or those of a more contempory period have died as a result of asphixiation from carbonmonoxide poisoning in a Tipi? It seems such would be unlikely due to the ventilation drafts entering from the bottom of the outside liner which ascend between the inside and outside liner in the 'pole' space then refurnish 02 to the fire and vent up and out through the flap area.... I am a new to this and request comments words from those of you who are more experienced. Thanks elkflea - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:22:15 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp If I remember right, hemp was the number one cash crop before WWII in Wisconsin, then of course it became illegal. Jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:39:37 -0700 From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves - --------------1DBF0AFCAFDF57275F225CA7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elkflea@aol.com wrote: > Greetings: > > The recent discussion of the potential for carbon monoxide poisoning from > combustive heating/open fires or stoves within shelters has raised my > curiosity. Does anyone know of any situations where aboriginal americans or > those of a more contempory period have died as a result of asphixiation from > carbonmonoxide poisoning in a Tipi? It seems such would be unlikely due to > the ventilation drafts entering from the bottom of the outside liner which > ascend between the inside and outside liner in the 'pole' space then > refurnish 02 to the fire and vent up and out through the flap area.... I > am a new to this and request comments words from those of you who are more > experienced. Thanks elkflea > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html The problem is many put the outside cover down on the ground and don't use a liner, thus not venting as you referred to. This is where the problem starts, smoky to start with - then it goes down hill. Later, Buck Conner Resource & Documentation for: ________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT ___________________________________HRD__ Visit these sites at: http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/ __________________ Aux Aliments de Pays! ___ - --------------1DBF0AFCAFDF57275F225CA7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elkflea@aol.com wrote:
    Greetings:

    The recent discussion of the potential for carbon monoxide poisoning from
combustive heating/open fires or stoves within shelters has raised my
curiosity.  Does anyone know of any situations where aboriginal americans or
those of a more contempory period have died as a result of asphixiation from
carbonmonoxide poisoning in a Tipi?   It seems such would be unlikely due to
the ventilation drafts entering from the bottom of the outside liner which
ascend between the inside and outside liner in the 'pole' space then
refurnish  02  to the fire and vent up and out through the flap area....   I
am a new to this and request comments words from those of you who are more
experienced.  Thanks  elkflea

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


The problem is many put the outside cover down on the ground and don't use a liner, thus not venting as you referred to. This is where the problem starts, smoky to start with - then it goes down hill.
 
Later,

Buck Conner
Resource & Documentation for:
________________________________________
HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
___________________________________HRD__
Visit these sites at:
http://pages.about.com/buckconner/
http://pages.about.com/conner1/
http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/
__________________ Aux Aliments de Pays! ___
  - --------------1DBF0AFCAFDF57275F225CA7-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:23:43 -0800 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mixed Bloods This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C052E4.5762FCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the antione clement and brother pierre, that I was refering to were = members of stewarts 1837 foray in to the west. antione was stewart's = right hand man and hunter. stewart also hired antione's 19 year old = brother pierre. The artist A.J. Miller who recorded the trip in = pictures. said that antione and stewart often argued over various = isues. miller would often see stewart and clement riding nose to nose, = stirrup to stirrup, shouting and swearing at each other in french. = then someone would shout "buffalo"! and the two would forget the = arguement and race to the hunt. when the hunt was over the argument was = entirely forgotten. miller painted portraits of both pierre and antione = they are well worth a look. sincerely; Tom ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 8:52 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Mixed Bloods Tom Said . . . . . or antione clement and his little brother Pierre, who came = out with captain Stuart. =3D =20 =20 I believe I have seen Antione's name as one of those who were near the = Great Basin in 1824-25 and tranfered his services to the Americans at = that time. I thought that I got that list of names from this list and = had kept it but I can not find it so maybe it was on Dean's list. At = any rate, it does not materially change the point of Tom's post but I = have thought of Antione as one of the ol' timers, am I wrong? =20 Humbly=20 WY =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C052E4.5762FCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

the antione clement and brother pierre, = that I was=20 refering to were members of stewarts 1837 foray in to the west.  = antione=20 was stewart's right hand man and hunter.   stewart also = hired=20 antione's 19 year old brother pierre.  The artist A.J. Miller who = recorded=20 the trip in pictures.  said that antione and stewart often argued = over=20 various isues.  miller would often see stewart and clement = riding nose=20 to nose, stirrup to stirrup, shouting and swearing at each other in=20 french.  then someone would shout "buffalo"!  and the two = would=20 forget the arguement and race to the hunt.  when the hunt was over = the=20 argument was entirely forgotten.  miller painted portraits of both = pierre=20 and antione they are well worth a look.
sincerely; Tom
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Wynn &=20 Gretchen Ormond
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 = 8:52=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Mixed = Bloods

Tom Said
. . . . .  or antione clement = and his little=20 brother Pierre, who came out with captain Stuart. =3D
 
 
I believe I have seen Antione's name = as one of=20 those who were near the Great Basin in 1824-25 and tranfered his = services to=20 the Americans at that time.  I thought that I got that list = of names=20 from this list and had kept it but I can not find it so maybe it was = on Dean's=20 list.  At any rate, it does not materially change the point of = Tom's post=20 but I have thought of Antione as one of the ol' timers, am I=20 wrong?
 
Humbly
WY

 
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