Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels

From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #814 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, June 10 2001 Volume 01 : Number 814 In this issue: - Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels - Re: MtMan-List: shovel, period - Re: MtMan-List: shovel, period - Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels - MtMan-List: Mules - MtMan-List: Shovels - MtMan-List: Shovels - Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels - Re: MtMan-List: Mules - Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels - Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels - Re: MtMan-List: Shovels - Re: MtMan-List: mules, Shovels and horses - MtMan-List: The four wild herds of Spanish Barb. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:11:56 -0500 From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:29:11 -0500 John Kramer writes: > Where are the listings of inventories? > > John... > Mr. Kramer, The best I can tell you is Cleland cited the footnote for the inventories on page 137 of his book, which is: "The reference for these items and others is from the bills of lading and receipts of Henry P. Chouteau in the A. Chouteau Collection, Missouri Historical Society MSS." My guess is the listings of inventories are still in Missouri. Victoria - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:01:10 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shovel, period - --part1_ce.15e34cf2.2852c146_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike well said I would add a few more uses for the shovel while out in the back country. I always dig a fire pit to help cut down on those unwanted fires and so when I leave I can bury my fire pit. Camping without a trace, proper camping skills for back country. That bring up another use to bury your business out in the bushes with. Nothing is more disgusting to come across when your not looking were you are stepping. I'm sure the boys back then did not think about or care about these things. But we live in the here and now and if you don't practice good camping skills. Your just another one of those flat landers that has no business out in the woods in my book. I'm not saying this to you Mike cause I'm know you practice good camping skills. This for those that haven't a clue what camping without a trace is. You should all camp as though the Blackfeet are on your trail and you want to leave as little sign as possible of your passing. Another use for my shovel is when I'm out I am always keep an eye out for eatable roots to add to my fair. Like I said before a digging stick just don't cut it for me. One more thing when having a fire in the forest it is the law you should have a shovel and water container handy. So to tell you the truth John I hope there is at one shovel in every camp weather it documented or not. Camp Smart! Crazy Cyot - --part1_ce.15e34cf2.2852c146_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike
well said I would add a few more uses for the shovel while out in the back
country.
I always dig a fire pit to help cut down on those unwanted fires and so when
I leave I can bury my fire pit. Camping without a trace, proper camping
skills for back country. That bring up another use to bury your business out
in the bushes with. Nothing is more disgusting to come across when your not
looking were you are stepping.
I'm sure the boys back then did not think about or care about these things.
But we live in the here and now and if you don't practice good camping
skills. Your just another one of those flat landers that has no business out
in the woods in my book.
I'm not saying this to you Mike cause I'm know you practice good camping
skills. This for those that haven't a clue what camping without a trace is.
You should all camp as though the Blackfeet are on your trail and you want to
leave as little sign as possible of your passing.
Another use for my shovel is when I'm out I am always keep an eye out for
eatable roots to add to my fair. Like I said before a digging stick just
don't cut it for me.
One more thing when having a fire in the forest it is the law you should have
a shovel and water container handy. So to tell you the truth John I hope
there is at one shovel in every camp weather it documented or not.
Camp Smart!
Crazy Cyot

- --part1_ce.15e34cf2.2852c146_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:23:32 -0600 From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shovel, period I have to go along with Mike and Crazy Coyote on this one, but another use for that shovel is for dispatching unwanted guests who come calling with rattles attached to their tails. If you are fortunate enough to be able to dispatch "Ole Jake no Shoulders" without exciting him too much, he makes for fine eating. The shovel is a fairly silent and in my mind an excellent tool for this task. No snake in my mind has ever been worth the price of powder and a good galena pill. Respectfully, C Webb - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 07:58:06 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3074918286_122768_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gentelmen, As hard as tools were to come by and specific in there use, I don't think that I would use my Axe, Adz or any fine wood working tool to dig with when they would be so hard to replace. The second thing that bothers me is why bring a pick if you don't have a shovel (spade) If you are not farming then why have a "hoe". Would a spade or shovel be trade goods or listed as supplies or listed as tools? Would there be more than one list for each trip to the mountains?. I spent the good part of a day digging out what had been a dug out on the land back on May 13, and John Kramer knows how to use a shovel. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- From: Todd Glover To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels Date: Fri, Jun 8, 2001, 2:17 PM John, I found Astor's inventory list in appendix B of Firearms, Traps and Tools of the Mountain Men. The list also mentions 3 pick axes. I find it curious that there are so few shovels and picks mentioned on such a lengthy list of tools. Adze' seem to be more plentiful as do hoes. I can see building a cache using axes, adze' or hoes to loosen the dirt and some other means to remove it. One possibility of another means to remove it could be a wooden shovel. Looking in Eric Sloan's A Museum of Early American Tools you can see two such shovels. Such "Treen-Ware" (made from trees) would be fairly simple to make and a knowledge of which I must assume would not have been uncommon among the men of the day. This is a great topic by the way. "Teton" Todd D. Glover http://homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html - --MS_Mac_OE_3074918286_122768_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels Gentelmen,
As hard as tools were to come by and specific in there use, I don't think t= hat I would use my Axe, Adz or any fine wood working tool to dig with when t= hey would be so hard to replace. The second thing that bothers me is why bri= ng a pick if you don't have a shovel (spade) If you are not farming then why= have a "hoe". Would a spade or shovel be trade goods or listed as= supplies or listed as tools? Would there be more than one list for each tri= p to the mountains?.
I spent the good part of a day digging out what had been a dug out on the l= and back on May 13, and John Kramer knows how to use a shovel.
YMOS
Ole # 718
- ----------
From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels
Date: Fri, Jun 8, 2001, 2:17 PM

John,

I found Astor's inventory list in appendix B of Firearms, Traps and Tool= s of the Mountain Men.
The list also mentions 3 pick axes. I find it curious that there are so= few shovels and picks mentioned on such a lengthy list of tools.

Adze' seem to be more plentiful as do hoes. I can see building a cache usin= g axes, adze' or hoes to loosen the dirt and some other means to remove it. = One possibility of another means to remove it could be a wooden shovel. Look= ing in Eric Sloan's A Museum of Early American Tools
you can see two such shovels. Such "Treen-Ware" (made from tr= ees) would be fairly simple to make and a knowledge of which I must assume w= ould not have been uncommon among the men of the day.

This is a great topic by the way.

"Teton" Todd D. Glover
http://homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/index.html= <http://homestead.juno.com/tetontodd/ind= ex.html>

- --MS_Mac_OE_3074918286_122768_MIME_Part-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 09:14:58 -0600 From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Mules I am sorry that I run a little behind on subjects that have been left but week days do not give me much time to get into the digest. Crazy claims that mules kick harder. I wonder about that. Perhaps the saying “kicks likes a mule” should refer to a man who can shoot straight instead of a ballistics question. As to Toms point that getting bucked off a mule makes them bad, that would put a lot of horses and a couple women on my bad list, but then I am a sorry hand. As to mules dung being used for dog food. Let me warn any dogs that take the notion that mules are notorious for their dislike for dogs. Mine is no exception, she put a joggers dog in its place just this winter. The lady was rather apologetic about her dogs bad trail manners until my mule educated it, then she acted rather put out about the whole deal. Well I better drop the mule topic afore I bore everyone to death but I must add that I got home from work early the other night and loaded the 3 year old thoroughbred and the mule in and ran to the nearest mountain trail. If she don’t make the prettiest pack animal you ever saw. Being a young mule she had to test the rocks she was carrying to see if they were removable or breakable but hey we strung out and traveled fast. Life is good from the back of a horse with a pack animal in tow. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 09:22:21 -0600 From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Shovels From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shovels I have a fry pan you could dig a pretty good cache with. A digging stick would do. A large knife could suffice. Ole has one too. Good metal that will not bend maybe a little heavy is all. Made in by the Dutch I believe. Wynn Ormond Sorry Ole just couldn’t resist but maybe we could use the additional uses of a fry pan for documentation of cast iron. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:42:51 -0600 From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Shovels Chris Sega wrote: >Yet I have not dug a cache > so maybe I do a shovel. Maybe someone who has done a > month or more on horseback in the wilds would let us > Know what they think. > I have not had that privilege but Joe Back who wrote the classic Horses, Hitches and Rocky Trails said in reference to shovels, axes, saws, etc Survival even in this modern age many times will depend on just a few essential tools and very simple one at that . . . . no matter how modern you are, just take a few Stone Age precautions Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 09:03:36 -0600 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels I've found a number of references to shovels in the Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821, which might shed some light on this. On 13 Aug 1777, Matthew Cocking had "one [man] making Wooden shovels" at HBC's Cumberland House. (Rich 1:180) Two square-bladed iron shovels were excavated from the site of HBC's Gloucester House, which operated from 1778-1795, & 1812-1813. (Newton & Mountain, 71-72, in C.S. Reid) On 16 Dec 1779, William Walker at HBC's Cumberland House had "Two [men] Yewing [i.e., hewing] wood for two Shovels." (Rich 2:25) On 10 Sept 1800, Alexander Henry the Younger began construction at the future NWC Park River post "to build a store house to put the Goods under cover as soon as possiable. Some were employ'd cutting logs, others cutting Hay to cover and others making wooden shovels." (Gough 1:51) In John Macdonald of Garth's memoirs of his time with the NWC, he recalls when "...the men were called to dig [Blackfeet] graves, as they had spades, &c." 1805? (Masson 2:33) And for the 1821-1822 Athabasca outfit, future HBC Governor George Simpson requests 7 spades for the Athabasca's many posts (Simpson, 160-161) So, based on this info, I suggest that wooden shovels were made when necessary, as well as using the iron shovels that were also available. As always, if anyone wants the full information on my references, just ask. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 13:26:15 -0500 From: Richard J Holliday Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mules - --=====================_18126500==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I'm sorry that I have so little to contribute to this great list. As a >veterinarian who spent 25 years in general practice in Missouri I have had >a fair amount of association with mules. A horse has a small ligament in the hip socket called the accessory ligament (if my memory from 45 years ago is correct) this ligament limits the lateral or side-ways movement of the entire hind leg, thus when a horse kicks it is directed ' mostly' straight back. A mule does not have this ligament and is thus able to reach way out side-ways when kicking or attempting to "shake hands" as we used to call it. In my experience a mule does not kick any harder than a horse, but since he is alot smarter than a horse, his aim is better. Then too, the smaller hoof size seems to hurt more ... more pounds per square in on impact. Winston Churchill once said. " I like pigs. Cats look down on you. Dogs look up to you. Pigs treat you as equals" I would vote to put mules in that last category... if you want to get along with them you have to treat them as equals. Have a great day! Doc Holliday *********************************************** Richard J. Holliday, DVM Office: 319 568 3401 Holistic Dairy Consultant Residence 319 568 3624 203 2nd St. N.E. Fax: 319 568 4359 Waukon, Iowa 52172 Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com or Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com http://home.rconnect.com/~rjhdvm/holvet.html *********************************************** "Those who teach must constantly hold up the challenge to study nature, not books." William A. Albrecht, Ph.D. - --=====================_18126500==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

I'm sorry that I have so little to contribute to this great list. As a veterinarian who spent 25 years in general practice in Missouri I have had a fair amount of association with mules.

A horse has a small ligament in the hip socket called the accessory ligament (if my memory from 45 years ago is correct) this ligament limits the lateral or side-ways movement of the entire hind leg, thus when a horse kicks it is directed ' mostly' straight back.

A mule does not have this ligament and is thus able to reach way out side-ways when kicking or attempting to "shake hands" as we used to call it. <G>

In my experience a mule does not kick any harder than a horse, but since he is alot smarter than a horse, his aim is better. Then too, the smaller hoof size seems to hurt more ... more pounds per square in on impact.

Winston Churchill once said. " I like pigs. Cats look down on you. Dogs look up to you. Pigs treat you as equals" I would vote to put mules in that last category... if you want to get along with them you have to treat them as equals. <G>

Have a great day!

Doc Holliday

***********************************************
Richard J. Holliday, DVM       Office: 319 568 3401
Holistic Dairy Consultant         Residence 319 568 3624
203 2nd St. N.E.                     Fax: 319 568 4359
Waukon, Iowa 52172
Mailto:rjhdvm@rconnect.com or Mailto:rjhdvm@aol.com
http://home.rconnect.com/~rjhdvm/holvet.html
***********************************************
"Those who teach must constantly hold up
the challenge to study nature, not books."
William A. Albrecht, Ph.D.

- --=====================_18126500==_.ALT-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 15:25:34 -0600 From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels John and list I really find these kind of questions fun because they target what most folks would consider a fairly common tool-yet when you get to looking it is hard to come up with much in the way of documentation-this usually leads to more questions, some speculation and a search for alternatives. In the case of shovels, spades or hoes -here is what I have found. Lewis and Clark--in their list of expedition equipment under "Camp Equipage" is listed "2 Spades and 2 Pick axes". Astorians-in a list of goods and equipment procured and used by the "overland" Astorians at their camp on the "Noudaw" (Nodaway) river dated December 29, 1810 are listed "4 spades & shovels....$1.50....$6.00"--- "2 ditto broken...$1.00...$2.00" , "2 Hoes,, used... .50....$1.00" , "1 Groubbing Hoe..... .75". Someone has already mentioned the spades that were listed in the Fort Astoria inventory of 1811. William Ashley records and Jed Smith records 1825- 1831- records did not contain any references to spades or shovels. Robert Campbell ledger of goods taken to the 1832 Pierre's Hole rendezvous-no reference to spades or shovels. Nathaniel Wyeth's Fort Hall ledgers and records 1834 did not contain any entries for spades or shovels-even though he left Robert Evans and 11 men to build Fort Hall and cached some goods at the fort site in August of 1834-by the way there were no Metis in this group of 11. American Fur Company ledgers for goods taken to the Rendezvous from 1833 to 1840 did not contain any references to spades or shovels. "Things of Life" a Park Service publication which lists the items used and traded at Fort Union from 1829 to 1845 did not contain any reference to spades or shovels. Inventory of Fort Jackson when sold to Bent & St. Vrain by Sarpy & Fraeb in 1838 lists " "3 new corn hoes" , and '"1 Pick axe or grubbing hoe" and no listings for spades or shovels. 1839 Inventory of Bent's Fort- " 6 corn hoes", and "1/2 doz Spades". By the way this inventory also includes " 50 lb barrels of almonds". Just about every one of the inventories or ledgers listed above included some type of adze or large chisel with a few listing things like "beaver spears" or "beaver chisels". Be careful in interpreting Alfred Jacob Millers art work -he arrived in the mountains in time for the July rendezvous and was back in St Louis by October so when did he observe the trappers doing such things as wading streams to set traps or digging caches-yet he has paintings which include such scenes?? Blacksmiths were apart of most of the fur enterprises and in many cases the precursor to building a fort was to set up the forge-Fort Hall, Fort Union, Fort Astoria and even Bonneville's Fort Nonsense built in 1833 in the heart of the Green River valley had an active forge and blacksmith. Jed Smith talks about laying over long enough for one his blacksmiths to repair some guns-so even some of the nomadic trapping brigades had a blacksmith with them. This by far not the final answer on spades or shovels in the fur trade-just more food for thought. Clay Landry Moorhead MT - ----- Original Message ----- From: John Kramer To: Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 4:52 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels I would be curious as to how many Clay has encountered in his deeper digging into the records of places like Fort Hall? John... John T. Kramer, maker of: - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:24:09 -0400 From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period Shovels Hey everybody, I just wanted everyone to know that I didn't just post a question then expect everyone else to do all the research work. So far what little I have been able to come up with is geared more toward shovels here in the east. I have found several references to companies set up specifically to make shovels. One of them, The Rowland Company, in Philidelphia started making shovels in the mid 1700's. They are still in business but now manufacture power transfer units and such. Two others gave passing reference to shovel companies set up in eastern towns but gave no further information. I have sent an email to the Rowland Company to see what (if any) kind of history they have regarding shipping and manufacture up to 1840. I know it's a one in a million shot but maybe they'll have something that will help. In search of the elusive shovel... Until later, Tim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 19:44:51 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shovels At 09:22 AM 6/9/01 -0600, you wrote: >Sorry Ole just couldn't resist but maybe we could use the additional >uses of a fry pan for documentation of cast iron. Wynn, Ain't no cast iron here, mine is beat out of heavy sheet iron. Now Ole h= e=20 might carry real heavy and easily broken cast iron pots and pans. John... John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:31:40 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mules, Shovels and horses >Sorry Ole just couldn't resist but maybe we could use the additional >uses of a fry pan for documentation of cast iron. Wynn, Ain't no cast iron here, mine is beat out of heavy sheet iron. Now Ole he might carry real heavy and easily broken cast iron pots and pans. John... Hi Wynn, The Spanish Barb was the horse that the northern Indians went south for in the early 1700s. By the time of the rendezvous practicing American mountain men 1825-1838 they were the most common horse on the northern plains. Out numbering any others by thousands to one. This horse is noted by having one less backbone than other horses. These horses are found in the Pryor Mountains in south central Montana today. Living decendents. With the price of expensive mules and horses of today. The Montana mountain Spanish Barb is a bargin at $125. Other horseman friends and family members have adopted these horses from BLM sales in Billings, Montana. Last month a sale was held in Billings. They make fine mountain horses for riding and packing. You get more of the real thing for less money from the orginial equiptment used by the common mountain man at least here in Montana. I do not think mules were used north of the Yellowstone until very late. They seem to be used on the North Platte west and south more than north of that river. The Spanish Barb horse was the standard of best use here. As for shovels. One common method used on the northern plains and northern Rocky Mountains was using elk horn as a pick and a shoulder blade as a hoe or shovel. Plum practical and no need to bother packing along to the next rare cache site. Be going to Fort Union on Wendsday. Looking forward to rendezvousing with other list members. Walt - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:39:30 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: The four wild herds of Spanish Barb. - --part1_2b.16a5b4f1.28550ad2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought some of you might want to read up on the few wild herds that are left, that have strong Spanish Barb blood lines. NORTH AMERICAN COLONIAL SPANISH HORSE, Foundation Strains of the Present Breed by D. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, Ph Feral Strains Some of the purely Spanish horses remained in isolated feral herds. Such pure horses became rare fairly early in this century due to the practice of shooting the Spanish stallions and replacing them with draft or blooded stallions in an attempt to "improve" or "breed up" the feral herds as sources of draft or remount stock. Bob Brislawn, founder of the Spanish Mustang Registry in 1957, used many feral horses in his herd. Several of his foundation horses were obtained from Utah, although isolated horses from other herds contributed as well. The Brislawn horses contributed widely to the present breed. Most of the feral herds that served as the original source for the Spanish Mustang Registry were subsequently contaminated with other breeds of horses, and are therefore no longer purely Spanish. The horses within the SMR represent the only contribution that those once pure herds can now make to the breeding of the Colonial Spanish Horse. A later and major source of feral Spanish Colonial type horses were the herds in the Bookcliffs of Utah. These horses also figure prominently in the Brislawn as well as some other herds. In some herds these are still present as a unique strain. In other remote parts of Utah there are still some Spanish type wild horses. One such area is the Sulphur herd management area in Southwest Utah. Many of the horses from the northern end of this management area have very Spanish type. The usual colors in these herds are dun, grullo, red dun, bay, black and a few chestnuts. These horses show remarkable adaptation to their harsh environment. These horses are currently attracting attention, as well as dedicated breeders such as Ron Roubidoux and Darcey Duce. A group of these horses was accepted into the SMR in 1994. Feral horses of the Cerbat Mountains in Arizona contributed to the Colonial Spanish Horse of today. The original group captured from this area was caught by Ira Wakefield, who was a very accomplished mustanger. The Cerbat herds have a known history of purity on their present range since 1862. While Ira kept horses from a variety of sources throughout his long life the Cerbat horses are the only ones of his that made an impact on the present Colonial Spanish Horse. Today the Cerbat horses from the original capture have been supplemented by more recent Bureau of Land Management captures from the same ranges. The newer horses are identical in type to the older ones, giving added credence to the history of isolation and purity. The Cerbat strain is used by a variety of breeders of Colonial Spanish Horses, and is also kept as a distinct strain by Marye Ann and Tom Thompson. The horses come from a very restricted range, and are very uniformly conformed. They also have some unique blood types, which is another indication of their value for conservation. The feral Cerbat herds are still pure, and are being managed by the Bureau of Land Management to remain pure within themselves. These feral herds will hopefully continue to be a source of this unique genetic type along with animals of the same strain being raised domestically. The Cerbat horses are a classic old Spanish type and are roan, bay, or chestnut. The feral horses from the Kiger region in Oregon are usually included in discussions of Colonial Spanish Horses. These are feral horses that are selected to be dun, grullo, or red dun. These are managed both in the feral herds and in herds of private breeders. The excess horses from the range herds are periodically rounded up and sold to interested buyers. The conformation of horses in the herds is currently somewhat variable. Some are still of Spanish type, but others are smoother and taller than the usual Spanish type of conservation interest. Regardless of whether this conformation is the result of crossbreeding in the past, or due to selection from a Spanish base, it is less useful to Spanish horse conservation than is the more distinctly Spanish type which also exists in the herds. The Pryor Mountain mustangs range on high terrain between Wyoming and Montana. Most of these horses have Spanish conformation, and the blood types of the horses are also those expected of horses with Spanish ancestry. These horses are found along a major Crow and Shoshone migration route, and they probably have an origin in tribal horses. They are an interesting group since colors include bay, black, roan, chestnut, dun, grullo, roans, and a few buckskins and minimally expressed calico paints. This array of colors, especially the relatively high proportion of black and black based colors, is also consistent with a Spanish origin. The Pryor Mountain mustangs are an important resource for Spanish Horse conservation in North America. The Pryor Mountain mustangs are fortunate in inhabiting the first wild horse refuge that is specifically set up to conserve mustangs. That they are Spanish is an added bonus, and private individuals are now becoming interested in conserving this type. The BLM has also recently been acknowledging the uniqueness of this herd and is working to preserve the Spanish type on this range. This herd is one of the most accessible feral horse herds, and seeing these horses in their home environment is well worth the trip to this range. Other feral horses that are included in the foundation horses of the registries are usually individual horses with the correct Spanish appearance rather than an entire group of horses such as the Cerbats or the Holbrook group. These individual horses came from North Dakota, California, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico. None of these represent a line of breeding in the same way that the Holbrook/Brislawn horses or the Wakefield/Thompson/Cerbat horses do since none have been bred within the original group. They do, however, contribute importantly to the overall mix of feral contribution to the Colonial Spanish Horses. Most feral herds remaining today are crossbred with non-Spanish horses. Recent success, especially with the Pryor, Cerbat, Sulphur, and Kiger horses, has stimulated some investigation into the feral herds that are controlled by the Bureau of Land Management for other herds of Spanish type. If other herds of the correct type are found then the history of the feral horses in the area will be considered, along with blood typing information, in order to determine if any of these herds should be added to the list of Spanish type herds. These can then be managed to guard against incursion of non-Spanish horses. Such a program has several advantages. It keeps the feral Colonial Spanish horse in the original environment so that selection pressures keep working to produce environmentally resistant horses. The BLM also finds it easier to adopt out this type of horse rather than the usual crossbred type. If any other feral Spanish herds remain besides these four, they are probably very, very rare. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot - --part1_2b.16a5b4f1.28550ad2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought some of you might want to read up on the few wild herds that are
left, that have strong Spanish Barb blood lines.
NORTH AMERICAN COLONIAL SPANISH HORSE, Foundation Strains of the Present Breed
by D. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, Ph
Feral Strains Some of the purely Spanish horses remained in isolated feral
herds. Such pure horses became rare fairly early in this century due to the
practice of shooting the Spanish stallions and replacing them with draft or
blooded stallions in an attempt to "improve" or "breed up" the feral herds as
sources of draft or remount stock. Bob Brislawn, founder of the Spanish
Mustang Registry in 1957, used many feral horses in his herd. Several of his
foundation horses were obtained from Utah, although isolated horses from
other herds contributed as well. The Brislawn horses contributed widely to
the present breed. Most of the feral herds that served as the original source
for the Spanish Mustang Registry were subsequently contaminated with other
breeds of horses, and are therefore no longer purely Spanish. The horses
within the SMR represent the only contribution that those once pure herds can
now make to the breeding of the Colonial Spanish Horse.
A later and major source of feral Spanish Colonial type horses were the herds
in the Bookcliffs of Utah. These horses also figure prominently in the
Brislawn as well as some other herds. In some herds these are still present
as a unique strain. In other remote parts of Utah there are still some
Spanish type wild horses.
One such area is the Sulphur herd management area in Southwest Utah. Many of
the horses from the northern end of this management area have very Spanish
type. The usual colors in these herds are dun, grullo, red dun, bay, black
and a few chestnuts. These horses show remarkable adaptation to their harsh
environment. These horses are currently attracting attention, as well as
dedicated breeders such as Ron Roubidoux and Darcey Duce. A group of these
horses was accepted into the SMR in 1994.

Feral horses of the Cerbat Mountains in Arizona contributed to the Colonial
Spanish Horse of today. The original group captured from this area was caught
by Ira Wakefield, who was a very accomplished mustanger. The Cerbat herds
have a known history of purity on their present range since 1862. While Ira
kept horses from a variety of sources throughout his long life the Cerbat
horses are the only ones of his that made an impact on the present Colonial
Spanish Horse. Today the Cerbat horses from the original capture have been
supplemented by more recent Bureau of Land Management captures from the same
ranges. The newer horses are identical in type to the older ones, giving
added credence to the history of isolation and purity. The Cerbat strain is
used by a variety of breeders of Colonial Spanish Horses, and is also kept as
a distinct strain by Marye Ann and Tom Thompson. The horses come from a very
restricted range, and are very uniformly conformed. They also have some
unique blood types, which is another indication of their value for
conservation. The feral Cerbat herds are still pure, and are being managed by
the Bureau of Land Management to remain pure within themselves. These feral
herds will hopefully continue to be a source of this unique genetic type
along with animals of the same strain being raised domestically. The Cerbat
horses are a classic old Spanish type and are roan, bay, or chestnut.
The feral horses from the Kiger region in Oregon are usually included in
discussions of Colonial Spanish Horses. These are feral horses that are
selected to be dun, grullo, or red dun. These are managed both in the feral
herds and in herds of private breeders. The excess horses from the range
herds are periodically rounded up and sold to interested buyers. The
conformation of horses in the herds is currently somewhat variable. Some are
still of Spanish type, but others are smoother and taller than the usual
Spanish type of conservation interest. Regardless of whether this
conformation is the result of crossbreeding in the past, or due to selection
from a Spanish base, it is less useful to Spanish horse conservation than is
the more distinctly Spanish type which also exists in the herds.

The Pryor Mountain mustangs range on high terrain between Wyoming and
Montana. Most of these horses have Spanish conformation, and the blood types
of the horses are also those expected of horses with Spanish ancestry. These
horses are found along a major Crow and Shoshone migration route, and they
probably have an origin in tribal horses. They are an interesting group since
colors include bay, black, roan, chestnut, dun, grullo, roans, and a few
buckskins and minimally expressed calico paints. This array of colors,
especially the relatively high proportion of black and black based colors, is
also consistent with a Spanish origin. The Pryor Mountain mustangs are an
important resource for Spanish Horse conservation in North America. The Pryor
Mountain mustangs are fortunate in inhabiting the first wild horse refuge
that is specifically set up to conserve mustangs. That they are Spanish is an
added bonus, and private individuals are now becoming interested in
conserving this type. The BLM has also recently been acknowledging the
uniqueness of this herd and is working to preserve the Spanish type on this
range. This herd is one of the most accessible feral horse herds, and seeing
these horses in their home environment is well worth the trip to this range.
Other feral horses that are included in the foundation horses of the
registries are usually individual horses with the correct Spanish appearance
rather than an entire group of horses such as the Cerbats or the Holbrook
group. These individual horses came from North Dakota, California, Utah,
Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico. None of these represent a line of breeding
in the same way that the Holbrook/Brislawn horses or the
Wakefield/Thompson/Cerbat horses do since none have been bred within the
original group. They do, however, contribute importantly to the overall mix
of feral contribution to the Colonial Spanish Horses. Most feral herds
remaining today are crossbred with non-Spanish horses. Recent success,
especially with the Pryor, Cerbat, Sulphur, and Kiger horses, has stimulated
some investigation into the feral herds that are controlled by the Bureau of
Land Management for other herds of Spanish type. If other herds of the
correct type are found then the history of the feral horses in the area will
be considered, along with blood typing information, in order to determine if
any of these herds should be added to the list of Spanish type herds. These
can then be managed to guard against incursion of non-Spanish horses. Such a
program has several advantages. It keeps the feral Colonial Spanish horse in
the original environment so that selection pressures keep working to produce
environmentally resistant horses. The BLM also finds it easier to adopt out
this type of horse rather than the usual crossbred type. If any other feral
Spanish herds remain besides these four, they are probably very, very rare.

See ya on the trail
Crazy Cyot

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