From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #825 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, July 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 825 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question -       Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question -       Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July -       Re: MtMan-List: hist_text@xmission.com -       Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation -       Re: RE: MtMan-List: Rifle question -       Re: MtMan-List: hist_text@xmission.com -       MtMan-List: rifle question -       MtMan-List: lubes -       Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July -       MtMan-List: Youth Presentation -       Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan -       Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan-Now Moore -       MtMan-List: records -       Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question -       Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July -       Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July -       Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan -       Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July -       Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:32:57 -0500 From: jim gossett Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question About the guns and ignition . Flint or cap? Most guns in the East where probably cap by 1827. Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to caplock pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's caplocks are used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes place in the late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style ignition'. As for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s 40s and50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. Gentleman James De Santis, Nick wrote: > Big Dave, > > Just another viewpoint. I shoot with a club in western Oregon that picked > the pre 1840 trapper era as our period of choice. We have rifle and trade > gun competitions as separate shooting classes. I think all of the trade > gunners are shooting flints. The rifle shooters are about 80% caps. > Although I have to say it can be wet a lot of the year around here and a hat > brim full of water in your frizzen can ruin an otherwise awesome shot...not > to mention it gives your friends an under their breath chuckle. Having said > that, I was beat hands down by a couple of rifle flinters in a trail walk > this spring that was more than a little damp with one of them recovering > from a frizzen full of water - and I shoot the modern way! > > The other thing to consider is the cost. A pound of FFFF will last 5-10 > years for priming at $7-10, and I am paying $4 per each 100 rounds with > caps! If you like to cut your own patches and cast your own ball, you can > be a real economical shooter by not using caps. But of course there are > those lousy rocks to find and hammer on.... > > A question for all you shooters: How may of you are shooting with a > "moose-milk" type of water soluble oil patch lube vs. the "bear-grease" > patch lube? I have been using the "moose-milk" now for a while and find I > have zero bore fouling for as many rounds as I want to go. I am strictly a > black powder man. Any comments? > > Travler > > -----Original Message----- > From: cd252 [mailto:cd252@ptd.net] > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:25 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > Hi, > > What brand and or type of rifle is the most commonly seen at the most recent > Rendezvous > > Also what percentage are cap locks??? > > Thanks, > Big Dave > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:17:39 EDT From: Dejim55@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question - --part1_116.11fa325.28726923_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BIG DAVE I SHOOT A TULLE 62 CAL SMOOTH BORE I PRIME MY PAN WITH THE SAME POWDER THAT IS IN MY HORN(FF) I USE SPITE AND ANY GOOD COTTON CLOTH I CAN GET MY HANDS ON I CAN SHOOT WITH THE BEST OF THEM BUT MOST SHOOTERS I SEE AT THE VOSS USE CAP LOCKS (85%) AND THAT IS OK IF THAT IS ALL YOU WANT TO DO. JIM#1798 - --part1_116.11fa325.28726923_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BIG DAVE
I SHOOT A TULLE 62 CAL SMOOTH BORE  I PRIME MY PAN WITH  THE SAME POWDER THAT
IS IN MY HORN(FF) I USE SPITE  AND ANY GOOD COTTON CLOTH I CAN GET MY HANDS
ON   I CAN SHOOT WITH THE BEST OF THEM BUT  MOST  SHOOTERS I SEE AT THE VOSS
USE CAP LOCKS (85%) AND THAT IS OK IF THAT IS ALL YOU WANT TO DO.  

               JIM#1798 - --part1_116.11fa325.28726923_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:05:28 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July John, Here are some references for the 4th and it's happenings: "Journal of a Mountain Man", pg. 89 and 262 James Clyman "Down the Santa Fe Trail and in to Mexico", 40-41 Susan Magofflin You might also check on the rendezvoius which were going at that time and the history of Independence Rock. Hope it is not too hot for you down there. Bent's can be that way. mike. Hawkengun@aol.com wrote: > I'm putting together a short talk on Independence Day on the frontier for our > 4th of July doins at Bent's Old Fort. I need any good references I can find > to the 4th from mtn. men, fur traders, Mexican War soldiers, Santa Fe Trail > teamsters, etc. > > Much obliged, > > John Sweet > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:18:23 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hist_text@xmission.com - --------------F4DB84A56AC46220BAA4FDEA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trent, You can find more about these men by going to the AMM web site and finding the "Names of People in the West during the Fur Trade", there should be few more pages on them there. If you can't find the location, let me know and I'll get the address to you. mike. Trent Shue wrote: > I am looking for information about relatives WIlliam Leblanc and > Simeon Turley. I have found their names in the Guide to Hafen > Biographies as being mentioned in orginal series "The Mountainmen and > the Fur Trade of the Far West" > Leblanc, William Volume V, Pages171-172 > Turley, Simeon Volume VII, 301-314 > Does anyone have a copy of these books or know where I might find > them? A copy of these pages would also be very much appreciated. This > are the original books published by Arthur H Clark before 1972. There > is a new title that is very similar that does not contain the > information I am looking for. Thanks in advance for any help you can > provide, Trent Shue - --------------F4DB84A56AC46220BAA4FDEA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trent,
    You can find more about these men by going to the AMM web site and
finding the "Names of People in the West during the Fur Trade", there should
be few more pages on them there. If you can't find the location, let me know and
I'll get the address to you.
                                        mike.

Trent Shue wrote:

I am looking for information about relatives WIlliam Leblanc and Simeon Turley. I have found their names in the Guide to Hafen Biographies as being mentioned in orginal series  "The Mountainmen and the Fur Trade of the Far West" 
Leblanc, William Volume V, Pages171-172

Turley, Simeon   Volume VII, 301-314
 Does anyone have a copy of these books or know where I might find them? A copy of these pages would also be very much appreciated. This are the original books published by Arthur H Clark before 1972. There is a new title that is very similar that does not contain the information I am looking for. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide, Trent Shue
- --------------F4DB84A56AC46220BAA4FDEA-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:23:12 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation Barney, One thing which was a great hit when Bill K. and I were doing museum demos was a old Indian game. Two people stood on flat rocks about 10 feet apart and they held on to a rope and each tried to pull / trick the other to fall off their rock. Or make them let go of it. Quite a strategy game. Lots of fun.You can make a person fall in surprisingly many ways. If it sounds confusing, email off list. mike. LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > I have the opportunity to do a living history presentation during a week long > YMCA camp in the San Bernardino Mountains. The groups will be about 10 > campers each, twice a day, for an hour or so, and the campers are in the 8-11 > age range. > > I have slated some Dutch Oven Cooking, flint and steel fire-starting, hands > on display of primitive tools and weapons i.e. traps, flint knives, > flintlocks, sundial, etc, but am looking for other ideas as well. > > Any suggestions? Thanks, Barney > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:50:53 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: MtMan-List: Rifle question In a message dated 7/2/1 5:06:41 PM, nick.de.santis@intel.com writes: <> How about just using pre-1840 grease or spit patches like the originals?? RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:00:19 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hist_text@xmission.com In a message dated 7/2/1 7:26:18 PM, amm1616@earthlink.net writes: << Leblanc, William Volume V, Pages171-172 > Turley, Simeon Volume VII, 301-314 > Does anyone have a copy of these books or know where I might find > them? A copy of these pages would also be very much appreciated.>> Since you are AMM you should know that the AMM Museum Library purchased an all-but-complete set about 20 years ago. You as a member are entitled to access to it. Richard James hvrno #79 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:05:39 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: rifle question Big Dave asked, BD, your question is going to open up a slew of opinions. The answer depends on a lot of things. Like what type r'vous? Where is it being held [i.e. Wyoming or Virginia], etc. You see everything at r'vous, Ky/Penn styles, Hawken/Leman, lots more smoothbores in recent years. And, again depending on what kind of event you may or may not see rifles that have a "brand" but mostly custom made. I would suggest you try not to copy the crowd, do yer own thing. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:13:52 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: lubes Traveler The question of proper lubes has been kicked around endlessly. Everyone has their favorite. Moose milk, in its many variations, has remained popular for decades. Stick with what works for you. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:22:52 EDT From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July Thanks for the references... John - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:45:57 EDT From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation Just wanted to let you guys know that the program is coming together, and will include, as time allows: 1) Passing around furs, trade beads and period accoutrements, 2) Demonstrations of fire starting (flint & steel and bow-drill), and 3) Making cordage and knots. All going on while baking a Dutch oven dessert (which I hated to include for PC reasons, but was requested by the Director). To Wade, Dave, C. Kent, Hawk, John K, John M, Jerry, Pat, Ray and Mike: THANKS FOR YOUR HELP! Barney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 20:49:09 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan Dave, Would love to find out more about the records. My family settled in the "American Bottoms" in 1782. One of five white, but non Eglish families to do so. But it seems that they did alot around Bellefontane (today's Waterloo, Il). Where are the records kept? Any possibility that a James Moore or Samuel Moore turned up in them? Samuel was one of George Rogers Clark's spies for his raids on the three forts. Any help appreciated. mike. ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote: > Traphand@aol.com writes: > > Loved the infor. you sent me and yes I an looking into morgans store in > > kaskaskia. Any information on the goods he kept in the store would be > > helpful and and also, what he charged for the goods. > > Nothing more on the store or goods themselves, just stuff about Morgan and > his underhanded dealings and the reasons for failure of the company. Here's > another little tidbit I ran across in another source: "The Story of Illinois" > by Theo. Pease. > > "As early as 1766 Illinois had begun a trade connection with the seaboard > English colonies. In 1765, the shifty Samuel Wharton, of the Philadelphia > firm of Baynton, Wharton, and Morgan, had listened to private representations > from George Croghan that he would take a secret partnership with them and buy > their goods at high prices to be given in the king's name as presents to the > western Indians whom he was descending down the Ohio to pacify. The firm > dreamed of 200% profits. Wharton tumbled all the firm's unsalable stock in > dry goods, fine groceries, and other commodities, whether suited to the > Indian trade or not, into wagons and sent them off by back roads to > Pittsburgh. Although attempts were made to conceal the transaction, rival > firms which were still barred from the Indian trade as a military measure > protested to the British commander-in-chief, Major General Thomas Gage. > Despite protestations of innocence from Wharton and Croghan, Gage made no > attempt to conceal his opinion that both were lying." > > "meanwhile unsupervised wagoners had forded rivers with loads of chocolate > and tea and had liberally helped themselves to the goods in their charge. > The lawless Paxton Boys plundered what the wagoners had spared....a much > reduced stock of damaged goods unsuited to the Indian trade had reached > Pittsburgh too late and were wasted on fair and frail ladies by the rascally > agents of the firm." > > "In 1766.......Morgan found himself at length in the Illinois Country with a > poorly assorted lot of goods in competition with skilled French merchants who > were in debt to New Orleans firms and therefore bound to deal with them." > > After not being able to secure the provisioning of the post because of > differences and a dislike by LC John Reed, BW&M fell into difficulties and > had to carry on its business under the supervision of creditors. In an > attempt to generate funds, Morgan returned east and secured a quantity of > Jamaican Negroes which he, in turn, sold to the Illinois French for 400 > pounds each. > > Dave > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 00:37:09 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan-Now Moore > Would love to find out more about the records.=20 Mike, As the saying goes, "I'm Paul Harvey and I've got news for you." >My family settled in the "American Bottoms" in 1782. One of five white, but= =20 non Eglish=20 > families to do so. But it seems that they did alot around Bellefontane=20 In 1779, Bellefontaine, the first permanent village of purely English=20 speaking men north of the Ohio River, was settled. It received an increase=20 in population in 1781, after the abandonment of Ft. Jefferson at the "Iron=20 Banks." Prominent among these pioneers were James Moore, Henry and Nicholas= =20 Smith, Shadrach Bond (uncle of the 1st governor of IL), William Oglesby, and= =20 Robert Watts. (Alvord, "The Illinois Country) Capt. James Moore was the leader of the Americans who settled at=20 Bellefontaine. Reynolds says (p. 96) that he came from Maryland, and that h= e=20 was employed by Gabriel Cerr=E9 to trade with the Indians in Tennessee. He=20 died in 1788. (see vol ii., 349) Several of his children moved to Missouri.= =20 (Houck, "History of Mo., Index) Alvord, "Kaskaskia Records" mentions Moore several times. He is listed in a= =20 couple of census, as are his children. Mention is made of James Jr., John,=20 Milton, William, and Enoch. Also James, sent as commissary, signs contract=20 with B. Tardiveau, writes a memorial to Congress, and petitions Court at=20 Kaskaskia. Alvord, "Cahokia Records" gives further family heritage, and has his will an= d=20 estate listing. > Where are the records kept?=20 Contact Illinois Historical Society. Books written by Alvord and Pease are=20 being republished by the University of Illinois Press. The ones I have are=20 circa 1900-1925 and were written for the Illinois Centennial. They are=20 pretty pricey in 1st edition form. We are approaching the Bicentennial and=20 renewed interest is leading to many early unpublished manuscripts being=20 printed. Moores are mentioned in: Alvord, "The Illinois Country, 1673-1818 Alvord, "Kaskaskia Records, 1778-1790 Alvord, "Cahokia Records, 1778-1790 >Any possibility Samuel Moore turned up in them?=20 > Samuel was one of George Rogers Clark's spies for > his raids on the three forts.=20 Different spelling. Speaking of GRC........."in 1777 he had sent two spies,= =20 S. More and B. Linn, to Kaskaskia to investigate the situation. They=20 remained in the village some time, giving themselves out as hunters; but the= y=20 failed to get into communication with the leaders of the opposition to=20 Rocheblave, because Clark had not informed even his spies of his purpose." Clark's memoirs, letters and journals have also been published into one=20 volume, but I don't have it. You might be able to obtain some of the above=20 books through interlibrary loan as well. Dave - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 06:45:24 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: MtMan-List: records Dave, Thanks very much for the info. I have been back twice to do some research but didn't know about the records, I will get me a copy. The State Historical Soc. in Springfield also had some early books which gave me some new light on my family. The family is lucky to have the spring (Bellefontaine) still around, but it is not kept up, a small cemetary with James and his family graves in it, along with a small monument telling about the family there and a 1/2 mile section on a old trail which is all that is not plowed up or paved over. The time frame and where they lived didn't have much local goverment- so records and good information is hard to find. I know it was hard life where they settled. Nice to have ties to history in the family, but isn't that what history is- a collecton of personal experiences tied together to form a over all view point? Thanks again Dave. mike. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 07:41:07 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question Dave, There is no one rifle. What do you like but mostly what period and what you portray. Flintlock in my area 30% cap lock 70% YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: "cd252" >To: >Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle question >Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2001, 4:24 PM > >Hi, > >What brand and or type of rifle is the most commonly seen at the most recent >Rendezvous > >Also what percentage are cap locks??? > > >Thanks, >Big Dave > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:59:32 +0800 From: buck_conner@email.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July Independence Day Fourth of July Being Independence Day 2001, Let's take a look at what our forefather's were up to on the Upper Missouri 1805. With the portage behind them, the Corps of Discovery celebrated their second Fourth of July of the journey with a meal of beans, suet dumplings, and heaping portions of buffalo meat, a “very comfortable dinner,” Lewis wrote. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We had no just cause to covet the sumptuous feasts of our countrymen on this day......... . We have conceived our party sufficiently small and therefore have concluded not to dispatch a canoe with a part of the men to St. Louis as we had intended early in the spring. We fear also that such a measure might possibly discourage those who would be in such case remain, and might possibly hazzard the fate of the expedition................ MERIWETHER LEWIS July 4th. A beautiful, clear, pleasant warm morning....It being the 4th of Independence, we drank the last of our Spirits.... The fiddle [was] put in order, and the party amused themselves dancing all the evening until about 10 oClock in a jovi[a]l manner. JOHN ORDWAY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Their supply of whiskey was running low, but the captains let the men finish it off as “they continued their mirth with songs and festive jokes and were extremely merry until late at night”. They were was behind schedule. And off in the distance, they could now see the mountains that awaited them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The mountains to the N.W. and West of us are still entirely covered [with snow], are white and glitter with the reflection of the sun. I do not believe that the clouds that pervale at this season of the year reach the summits of those lofty mountains; and if they do the probability is that they deposit snow only, for there has been no p[er]ceptable diminution of the snow which they contain since we first saw them. I have thought it probable that these mountains migth have derived their appellation of SHINEING MOUNTAINS from their glittering appearance when the sun shines in certain directions on the snow which covers them. WILLIAM CLARK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I wonder how many of the hist_list camped in the Yellowstone area this year have seen these SHINEING MOUNTAINS as did William Clark, Meriwether Lewis and their group did a few years before ! Have a safe and enjoyable 4th. - -- Take care, Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Make PC-to-Phone calls with Net2Phone. Sign-up today at: http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?121 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:49:57 EDT From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July From blistering Boise, Happy 4th to all Thanks Buck ZZZZZZZZZ Wade Sleeps Loudly Smith - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:57:12 -0600 From: "Steve Banks" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan Mike, Here are a couple of web sites you might try: (usgenweb.com ) This is arranged by state, then by county. It is a collection of vital statistics of the county from the county clerk's office. These records go back to the beginnings of record keeping. You may find some holes but for the most part they are pretty complete. Another is (cyndislist.com) This list can direct you to names, military records etc. It is more of a resouce search engine, but is quite complete. Good luck! Steve B. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Moore" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 8:49 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need infor about baynton,wharton and morgan > Dave, > Would love to find out more about the records. My family settled > in the "American Bottoms" in 1782. One of five white, but non Eglish families > to do so. But it seems that they did alot around Bellefontane (today's Waterloo, > Il). Where are the records kept? Any possibility that a James Moore or Samuel > Moore turned up in them? Samuel was one of George Rogers Clark's spies for > his raids on the three forts. Any help appreciated. > mike. > > ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote: > > > Traphand@aol.com writes: > > > Loved the infor. you sent me and yes I an looking into morgans store in > > > kaskaskia. Any information on the goods he kept in the store would be > > > helpful and and also, what he charged for the goods. > > > > Nothing more on the store or goods themselves, just stuff about Morgan and > > his underhanded dealings and the reasons for failure of the company. Here's > > another little tidbit I ran across in another source: "The Story of Illinois" > > by Theo. Pease. > > > > "As early as 1766 Illinois had begun a trade connection with the seaboard > > English colonies. In 1765, the shifty Samuel Wharton, of the Philadelphia > > firm of Baynton, Wharton, and Morgan, had listened to private representa tions > > from George Croghan that he would take a secret partnership with them and buy > > their goods at high prices to be given in the king's name as presents to the > > western Indians whom he was descending down the Ohio to pacify. The firm > > dreamed of 200% profits. Wharton tumbled all the firm's unsalable stock in > > dry goods, fine groceries, and other commodities, whether suited to the > > Indian trade or not, into wagons and sent them off by back roads to > > Pittsburgh. Although attempts were made to conceal the transaction, rival > > firms which were still barred from the Indian trade as a military measure > > protested to the British commander-in-chief, Major General Thomas Gage. > > Despite protestations of innocence from Wharton and Croghan, Gage made no > > attempt to conceal his opinion that both were lying." > > > > "meanwhile unsupervised wagoners had forded rivers with loads of chocolate > > and tea and had liberally helped themselves to the goods in their charge. > > The lawless Paxton Boys plundered what the wagoners had spared....a much > > reduced stock of damaged goods unsuited to the Indian trade had reached > > Pittsburgh too late and were wasted on fair and frail ladies by the rascally > > agents of the firm." > > > > "In 1766.......Morgan found himself at length in the Illinois Country with a > > poorly assorted lot of goods in competition with skilled French merchants who > > were in debt to New Orleans firms and therefore bound to deal with them." > > > > After not being able to secure the provisioning of the post because of > > differences and a dislike by LC John Reed, BW&M fell into difficulties and > > had to carry on its business under the supervision of creditors. In an > > attempt to generate funds, Morgan returned east and secured a quantity of > > Jamaican Negroes which he, in turn, sold to the Illinois French for 400 > > pounds each. > > > > Dave > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:35:38 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July > Independence Day > Fourth of July > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I wonder how many of the hist_list camped in the Yellowstone area this year have seen these SHINEING MOUNTAINS as did William Clark, Meriwether Lewis and their group did a few years before ! > Have a safe and enjoyable 4th. Take care, Buck Conner Hi Buck, I can report that I have. As recently our my return from Fort Union. Recent snow on the Beartooth Mountains shined on June 18, 2001. The Big Horns were outstanding also. As well as the Crazy Mountains, the Little Belts, the Snowies and more. Snow fall was down until the June blankets of snow fell from the Bitter Roots to the Big Horns. I have a lot of shineing mountain pictures ya all might enjoying seeing. Cheers, Walt - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:02:32 -0700 From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation This game was played at the Fort Snelling July reenactment of the sale of the Columbia Fur Co. to American Fur. The post variation was to stand on nail kegs. Be sure the ground is soft! Larry Huber - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Moore" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 6:23 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation > Barney, > One thing which was a great hit when Bill K. and I were doing museum > demos was a old Indian game. Two people stood on flat rocks about 10 > feet apart and they held on to a rope and each tried to pull / trick the > other to fall off their rock. Or make them let go of it. Quite a strategy game. > Lots of fun.You can make a person fall in surprisingly many ways. If it sounds > confusing, email off list. > mike. > > LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > > > I have the opportunity to do a living history presentation during a week long > > YMCA camp in the San Bernardino Mountains. The groups will be about 10 > > campers each, twice a day, for an hour or so, and the campers are in the 8-11 > > age range. > > > > I have slated some Dutch Oven Cooking, flint and steel fire-starting, hands > > on display of primitive tools and weapons i.e. traps, flint knives, > > flintlocks, sundial, etc, but am looking for other ideas as well. > > > > Any suggestions? Thanks, Barney > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #825 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.