From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #877 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, October 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 877 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire -       RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire -       RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire -       RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire -       MtMan-List: Laura Glise -       Re: MtMan-List: Laura Glise -       MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0500 -       MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC..depending on what topic we're on.. -       MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 -       Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 -       Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 -       Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 -       Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0500 -       MtMan-List: re: Victoria's bbq post -       Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 -       Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 -       Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 -       MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? -       Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? -       MtMan-List: off topic -       Re: MtMan-List: off topic -       Re: MtMan-List: off topic -       MtMan-List: Somewhat OT: Creating Native Persona -       Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:23:19 -0600 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire Mr. Wynn Ormond wrote: >As for shooting off a horse, I >talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related >several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game >off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close >range. Well, to get this back to a historical turn, isn't that the classic buffalo hunting technique? Let your prime buffalo-running horse bring you close to the buffalo, and shoot the critter from right alongside? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:59:41 -0600 From: "Bill Klesinger" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire You are correct Angela ! But something has not been brought out about shooting from a horse. It is a lot different to shoot from a horse if it is running and has a lot going on around it. And to shoot from one that is calm and relaxed. I would do lot of shooting around a horse. before trying to shoot from one. If I was young and wanted to rodeo then , Shoot.. Bill - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Angela Gottfred Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:23 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire Mr. Wynn Ormond wrote: >As for shooting off a horse, I >talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related >several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game >off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close >range. Well, to get this back to a historical turn, isn't that the classic buffalo hunting technique? Let your prime buffalo-running horse bring you close to the buffalo, and shoot the critter from right alongside? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:09:57 +0000 From: "darlene secondine" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire Good point Bill, but I might add one note about a previous comment about sacking. When whispering and whispering and whispering and more whispering don't work, you might have to shout. If that don't work, some of them make better dog food than they do mounts. Don in the Ohio Country >From: "Bill Klesinger" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:59:41 -0600 > >You are correct Angela ! > >But something has not been brought out about shooting from a horse. It is a >lot different to shoot from a horse if it is running and has a lot going on >around it. And to shoot from one that is calm and relaxed. > >I would do lot of shooting around a horse. before trying to shoot from one. >If I was young and wanted to rodeo then , Shoot.. > >Bill > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Angela Gottfred >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:23 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire > > >Mr. Wynn Ormond wrote: > >As for shooting off a horse, I > >talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related > >several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game > >off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close > >range. > >Well, to get this back to a historical turn, isn't that the classic buffalo >hunting technique? Let your prime buffalo-running horse bring you close to >the buffalo, and shoot the critter from right alongside? > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:21:35 -0600 From: "Bill Klesinger" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire All dog's have to eat !!! That is a great point. Most people do not think of a horse as livestock, most belive that they are pets. I would sooner get rid of a bad horse that go see a Doc. Bill - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of darlene secondine Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 11:10 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire Good point Bill, but I might add one note about a previous comment about sacking. When whispering and whispering and whispering and more whispering don't work, you might have to shout. If that don't work, some of them make better dog food than they do mounts. Don in the Ohio Country >From: "Bill Klesinger" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:59:41 -0600 > >You are correct Angela ! > >But something has not been brought out about shooting from a horse. It is a >lot different to shoot from a horse if it is running and has a lot going on >around it. And to shoot from one that is calm and relaxed. > >I would do lot of shooting around a horse. before trying to shoot from one. >If I was young and wanted to rodeo then , Shoot.. > >Bill > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Angela Gottfred >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:23 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire > > >Mr. Wynn Ormond wrote: > >As for shooting off a horse, I > >talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related > >several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game > >off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close > >range. > >Well, to get this back to a historical turn, isn't that the classic buffalo >hunting technique? Let your prime buffalo-running horse bring you close to >the buffalo, and shoot the critter from right alongside? > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:46:25 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Glise I talked to Laura Glise last night and for the first time she was very depressed.....very nearly over the edge. She said that the latest tests from Duke U. Hospital indicated that her brain tumor had not grown, which was interpreted by the doctors as a good sign. She has other physical issues that weigh heavily on her...mainly swelling resulting from the medications she is taking. She is scheduled to begin another regimen of chemotherapy for the tumor beginning today. She is working back at her school, which is a relief. She didn't say so, but I think that getting notes from some of her friends would go a long way toward making her feel connected with her "past" life. Her entire existence since March has revolved around that damn tumor. She still can't really function on the internet so don't bother using email because she won't see it. Phone calls are still a real problem, so save your calls until she is able to cope with them. Written notes, photographs, cards would be best. Once she sent us a couple of leaves from her yard. That sort of thing. Lanney Ratcliff Laura Glise 3841 Prestwick Lane SE Olympia, WA 98501 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:26:11 -0400 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura Glise Thanks Lanney.... I have never met her, but I think she is a great gal. She sent me a signed copy of her new book via friends to the Alafia last January. Meant alot to me. Vicki and I will be sending her a card... Ad Miller Alderson, WV - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:08:01 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0500 Ad Click here and dig through the site and you will find out more about Laura, including a photo of her and of her and her daughter (and info about her book, too). Look closely at the photo of just her and notice the brooch she is wearing. It's a Star Trek com badge...you know the one all the Enterprise crew members touch to talk to somebody. That is the personality we're dealing with. I like it. Lanney http://www.trafford.com/trafford.acgi$view-item?item=732&84184800-26110aaa Lanney Ratcliff - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:43:48 -0700 From: "John Funk" Subject: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC..depending on what topic we're on.. (This is one of the MOST IMPORTANT CASES in many, many years!! · U.S. APPEALS COURT FINDS SECOND AMENDMENT GUARANTEES AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS . . . In a landmark ruling, the U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans held yesterday that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees the right of individuals to keep and bear arms. The court rejected the arguments of the Clinton administration's Justice Department that the Second Amendment does not apply to individuals but merely recognizes the right of the state to arm its militia. The case, United States v. Emerson, arose out of a Texas divorce suit in which a restraining order had been issued against the husband, Dr. Timothy Joe Emerson, who was subsequently charged with violating a federal law that prohibits the possession of firearms while under such a court order. The trial court dismissed the charges against Emerson saying the statute's ban on possession of a firearm while a restraining order was in place, violated, among other rights, the doctor's Second Amendment rights. The Janet Reno Justice Department appealed. While the appeals court ultimately upheld the validity of the federal law - finding that it did not infringe upon Dr. Emerson's rights - the decision is the strongest ruling to date interpreting the Second Amendment. The Court said the words 'the right of the people' in the Second Amendment had the same meaning as when used in the First and Fourth Amendments and, like those Amendments in the Bill of Rights, secures an individual or personal right not a collective or states' right. The Court rejected "the collective rights and sophisticated collective rights models for interpreting the Second Amendment. We hold, .that [the Second Amendment] protects the rights of individuals, including those not then actually a member of any militia or engaged in active military service or training, to privately possess and bear their own firearms, such as the pistol involved here, that are suitable as personal, individual weapons . . ." The Court went on to say "that does not mean that those rights may never be made subject to any limited, narrowly tailored specific exceptions or restrictions for particular cases that are reasonable and not inconsistent with right of Americans generally to individually keep and bear their private arm "The Court's decision is a very thorough and scholarly analyzes of the actual text, history and jurisprudence of the Second Amendment. It reaffirms that the Second Amendment is a cherished civil liberty of equal importance to our nation as the First and Fourth Amendments," said Robert T. Delfay, president and chief executive officer of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Inc. "Every American, not just firearms owners, should applaud this reaffirmation of the principles and beliefs of our founding fathers." A copy of the United States v. Emerson can be view at http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/99/99-10331-cr0.htm The Brady Center For The Prevention of Gun Violence had filed a "friend of the court" brief supporting the Janet Reno Justice Department's misguided interpretation of the Second Amendment, the latest in a continuing string of defeats for the Brady Center in their campaign to destroy the firearms industry and the Second Amendment. (Thanks NSSF for staying on top of these issues!) ____________________________________________ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:57:51 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Hello the Camp! I have been asked to put together a group of Mountain Men to demonstrate and hands on teaching at East Fork of the Bear Scout Camp next June 20,21 and 22. I have asked for an exclusive area where we can set up our own camp's without intrusion from wandering bands of scouts and other such modern inconvieniences. We will demonstrate primitive skills, weapons, blacksmithing flint knaping. There is good fishing, beaver ponds, plenty of places to ride. Please let me know if you can help. Pleaseeeeeeeee! Ole # 718 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:14:59 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Ole Where will this doin's happen? Presumably in NE Utah?? Lanney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:23:01 -0400 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 > I have been asked to put together a group of Mountain Men to demonstrate > and hands on teaching at East Fork of the Bear Scout Camp next June 20,21 > and 22. Not to sound stupid. but in what state is the East Fork of the Bear ??? I'd love to try to make it, but... *grins* I have no idea where I'd be going.... Ad Miller Alderson, WV - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:20:56 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Ole, Just where is this place located??? If it ain't too far I would be glad to help out!!! - -C.Kent Eagle Scout 1988 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:29:32 -0500 From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0500 Hello the list, Several weeks ago Lanney mentioned Laura being sad because she missed being able to come down to Texas to eat at her favorite barbeque place in Lockhart, a small town near Austin. If Laura can't come to Texas, then Texas ought to go to Laura. I thought if the MM on this list would donate funds, we could get Laura the BBQ she so misses. I visited with Lanney about the idea. He said it would cost about a hundred dollars, including shipping, for a "nice chunk of meat." Lanney also said he would drive down to Lockhart to purchase and package Laura's present and ship it to her. If any of you all are interested in participating in blessing Laura, please contact me off list. I thought I would get a nice card and write in the names of those who helped in getting her present to her. This is to be a surprise, so please keep it under your hats. Thanks, Victoria vapate@juno.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:57:12 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: re: Victoria's bbq post Ho the list, This is the post I sent to Victoria today about getting Laura some bbq. The bbq at Kreutz's Market is by far the best I have ever eaten. Consider that statement in the context of a Texan admitting that ANYBODY'S bbq is better than his own.....and mine is, indeed, verrrry good. Anybody near Austin or San Antonio needs to make Kreutz'a Market a stop on his/her itinerary. Just keep in mind that they are closed on Sunday. As Victoria said, I will go fetch the bbq and overnight it to Laura. I bragged about Kreutz's Market bbq to Laura when she came home to Texas in January of 2000 and she was skeptical ...until she took the first bite. I hesitate to tell you about the sounds she made while eating. Contact Victoria if your are interested in this little project. Lanney > What is the name of that resturant in Lockhart? > > Kreutz's market. Here is a review by an idiot. He got the meat and > atmosphere reviews right, but there ain't no sauce (which the meat doesn't > need) nor any real sides, and no real service. Service consists of a nice > person selling you what you want quickly and efficiently and moving on to > the next person in line. You go find a place to sit and eat your > meat.....served on a double thick layer of butcher paper with your choice of > soda crackers or white bread......or leave with your meat in a carry out > sack if you ordered "to go". Soda pop and cold beer are available. You are > expected to tidy up after yourself. Like I said.....no service at all. So > that leaves a 5 average...the best possible rating. The meat is about $9 a pound > at their counter. Sending Laura a care package would be a good idea. A > nice chunk of meat and overnight delivery would probably cost around $100. > Why don't you get on the net and see if anybody would like to help out. I > will drive down and get it, handle the packaging and send it if we can get > enough people to chip in. Laura would think it was the best present she > ever got. > Lanney > ps: I think Kreutz is pronounced Krites but I don't know for sure. > pps: Be aware that Kreutz has a new building at a new address....just up > the street from the original site... but it isn't air-conditioned and is as > hot as a foundry on any but the coldest day. > > Kreuz Market > 207 S. Commerce > Lockhart, TX > 512-398-2361 > > Meat 5 > Sides 1 > Sauce 1 > Service 4 > Atmosphere 5 > > Overall 4 > > Reviewer's Comments: This is the third of the Texas Monthly magazine's Top > 3 Texas Q joints. I finally made it there, and while the meat was > incredible, I was disappointed that there was no sauce, nor any sides other > thanpickles, onions, jalapenos, and advacaods. No beans, no sauce, but > that's how Kreuz likes it. Still, this place screams of authenticity. It's > been in the same building since 1900, passed down through the family, and > sold to a long-time employee, who passed it down through his family. When > you enter, smoke smell immediately hits youin the face, and as you approach > the pit, the flames of the wood lick your feet as you wait your turn. They > do not offer ribs or chicken, just brisket, shoulder, pork chops, sausage > and pork loin. I give the meat a hearty thumbs up, but would have liked a > light sauce to sprinkle on it. Sure do wish theyhad some sides, but the > atmosphere is all Q. They giveyou your meat on butcher paper with a plastic > knife,no fork, and you won't get one even if you ask for one... Seating is > in a large hall-like room with long tables, and green, dingy, smoke stained > walls. Worth the trip if in the Austin area!!! > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:07:53 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Lanney, About 40 miles south of Evenston Wyoming, It was one of the prime Beaver traping areas. This last year we had a Moose and calf walk through camp. Looks exactly like the camp at Nationals this year but a litle bit cooler due to the Uinta Mountains. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: "Lanney Ratcliff" >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 >Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2001, 5:14 PM > >Ole >Where will this doin's happen? Presumably in NE Utah?? >Lanney > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:10:24 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Ad, Sorry about that, it is in Utah but just south of the Wyoming boarder. From Salt Lake it is 1 1/2 hr away from Evenston Wyoming it is 1/2 hr. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: "Addison Miller" >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 >Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2001, 5:23 PM > >> I have been asked to put together a group of Mountain Men to demonstrate >> and hands on teaching at East Fork of the Bear Scout Camp next June 20,21 >> and 22. > >Not to sound stupid. but in what state is the East Fork of the Bear ??? I'd >love to try to make it, but... *grins* I have no idea where I'd be going.... > >Ad Miller >Alderson, WV > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:11:32 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 40 miles south of Evenston Wyoming. Ole - ---------- >From: HikingOnThru@cs.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 >Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2001, 7:20 PM > >Ole, > >Just where is this place located??? If it ain't too far I would be glad to >help out!!! > >-C.Kent >Eagle Scout 1988 > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:23:03 -0400 From: "DAVID ALBAUGH" Subject: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? Ahoy the list, I've been following the horsemanship postings. I don't keep any horses now, but have owned several, and hoof care was always a major concern for me, "a horse with no feet is no horse at all". I belive that the horse stock in the RMFT must have been hard-footed creatures and had a hard life, as opposed to some of the weak, soft footed horses around now. I also believe that the RMFT horse were probably nearly 100% unshod. I have seen native american bone hoof picks, and the crooked knives that are alot like hoof knives, and the ground is rocky, but what did the native americans and the trappers use to keep their horses hooves in shape? The posts and forts must have had blacksmiths/ferriers, how common was the practice of shoeing. I think I would not want my horses shod, if I were going to be on the ground for 6 mos to a year, what would I carry to use for my horse's hooves? Or did they just not give a damn about the horses then, and run them down and trade for better ones. We, now really develop afriendship with our horses, even if it is a"love-hate" relationship, but I know that animals were treated badly, to our standards even 50 years ago. So what did the native americans use for triming their hores hooves, and what did the trappers do, and what was the pracice near the forts and posts? Thanks for your consideration of these topics and sorry this was so long. Did you all see the news clips of the little Afgan horses carrying the Northern Alliance Cav, I bet those are tough little ponies. Dave Albaugh 1736 AUX ALIMENTS DU PAYS _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:59:01 -0700 From: "pat broehl" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? David, Greetings. I also have watched with interest concerning hoof care circa RMFT and have noticed no mention of any such. Only quite often it is metioned the need to lay up for a spell on account of the stock being in poor condition. Sometimes due to lack of good feed but I suspect poor hoof conditions also. I have not noticed any mention of working on their feet, only waiting for them to recoupe, or trading for vigorous stock. Also I've not noticed hoof care tools being part of a trapper's list. Also no mention of any intentional trip to the Smithie. Would enjoy any education or information concerning such. Itsaquain >From: "DAVID ALBAUGH" > > >Ahoy the list, I've been following the horsemanship postings. , "a horse >with no feet is no horse at all>also believe that the RMFT horse were >probably nearly 100% unshod. I have >seen native american bone hoof picks, and the crooked knives that are alot >like hoof knives, and the ground is rocky, but what did the native >americans >and the trappers use to keep their horses hooves in shape? The posts and >forts must have had blacksmiths/ferriers, how common was the practice of >shoeing. I think I would not want my horses shod, if I were going to be on >the ground for 6 mos to a year, what would I carry to use for my horse's >hooves>native americans use for triming their hores hooves, and what did >the >trappers do, and what was the pracice near the forts and posts? Thanks for >your consideration of these topics and sorry this was so long. Did you all >see the news clips of the little Afgan horses carrying the Northern >Alliance >Cav, I bet those are tough little ponies. Dave Albaugh 1736 > >> >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:32:17 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: off topic Some of you know that I live in a small city in Texas and my neighborhood is "diverse".....people from northern European extraction, others are Latino and there is a big house about half a block away that is populated by some sort of loud religious group. Gotta band. Used to call such folks "holy rollers". That said....about 20 minutes ago, on a bright, warm Saturday afternoon there came down North Robinson street in Cleburne, Texas a parade paced by two hooting police cars followed by maybe 150 people, mostly Mexicans. Two teenagers were out front of the others. One was carrying an American flag and another was carrying what is commonly called the Christian flag.....if you ever went to Vacation Bible School you know the flag....and following behind them were two more teenagers carrying a whopping American flag. Following them were dozens of kids from about 8 to about 15, many of whom were blowing police whistles (?). Then came a truck pulling a large trailer that had a band on it, compete with a girl singer, and they were playing patriotic and what I assumed were religious music. In Spanish. Loud. There were young adults carrying donation containers for the American Red Cross. I put in all my pocket change. Then came maybe 75-100 others folks, striding down the street. Looked like Americans to me. Damned if my big, hairy legged mountain man ass just stood there on my porch and teared up. I am proud of every one of those young folks. I would wager that none of them sass their parents, talk back to their teachers or steal to get dope. I hope your town has some kids just like them. I am sure proud of this bunch. God bless all of them and God bless America. I'm off my stump now. Carry on. Lanney Ratcliff - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:41:58 -0700 From: "John Funk" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic Lanney, Hooooo Rahhhh! JF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" To: "AMM" ; "History List" ; "scalpdance" Cc: "Mary Tallent" Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 2:32 PM Subject: MtMan-List: off topic > Some of you know that I live in a small city in Texas and my neighborhood is > "diverse".....people from northern European extraction, others are Latino > and there is a big house about half a block away that is populated by some > sort of loud religious group. Gotta band. Used to call such folks "holy > rollers". > That said....about 20 minutes ago, on a bright, warm Saturday afternoon > there came down North Robinson street in Cleburne, Texas a parade paced by > two hooting police cars followed by maybe 150 people, mostly Mexicans. Two > teenagers were out front of the others. One was carrying an American flag > and another was carrying what is commonly called the Christian flag.....if > you ever went to Vacation Bible School you know the flag....and following > behind them were two more teenagers carrying a whopping American flag. > Following them were dozens of kids from about 8 to about 15, many of whom > were blowing police whistles (?). Then came a truck pulling a large trailer > that had a band on it, compete with a girl singer, and they were playing > patriotic and what I assumed were religious music. In Spanish. Loud. There > were young adults carrying donation containers for the American Red Cross. > I put in all my pocket change. Then came maybe 75-100 others folks, > striding down the street. Looked like Americans to me. Damned if my big, > hairy legged mountain man ass just stood there on my porch and teared up. I > am proud of every one of those young folks. I would wager that none of them > sass their parents, talk back to their teachers or steal to get dope. I > hope your town has some kids just like them. I am sure proud of this bunch. > God bless all of them and God bless America. > I'm off my stump now. Carry on. > Lanney Ratcliff > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 02:12:10 EDT From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic Well, said, Lanney. Well said. Sleeps Loudly Boise, ID - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 07:52:56 -0400 From: hikingonthru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Somewhat OT: Creating Native Persona Ho Camp, I know some of us are really into fur trade - RMFT and earlier - and have pretty well established personas and outfits. I am getting interested in developing a native american persona...one of a late 18th/early 19th century eastern native whose tribe got involved in the fur trade (as you can tell it is still in the planning stages). I am having a pretty difficult time finding resources on the dress, esp. hairstyles and headgear, but pretty much all data in general. I do not want this to be a generic persona. I am looking for resources that will allow me to paint a picture in my mind of what the tribes (Iriquois Confed. & Cherokee) were going through culturally and politically from F&I through RMFT so I can really develop a good persona...a person that can say what his background was and how he got to where he is "today". If any of you are have this info., do native personas of any time period, or have data-links please respond to me offlist!!! Thanks in advance! - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 14:26:51 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? - --part1_c4.1c7edb41.29046d6b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello in the camp David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been working with Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I've been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kept in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. Their feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half never did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on him the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of times to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two year old marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and that was because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the hooves did not have a chance to ware down. With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was ever much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a concern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any of our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I have read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender. on the trail Crazy Cyot - --part1_c4.1c7edb41.29046d6b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello in the camp
David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been working with
Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I've been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kept in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. Their feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half never did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on him the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of times to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two year old marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and that was because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the hooves did not have a chance to ware down.
With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was ever much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a concern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any of our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I have read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender.
on the trail
Crazy Cyot - --part1_c4.1c7edb41.29046d6b_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #877 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.