From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #921 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, January 4 2002 Volume 01 : Number 921 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: "left handed long guns", -       Re: MtMan-List: Re:hawkens--- -       Re: MtMan-List: "left handed long guns", -       Re: MtMan-List: "left handed long guns", -       MtMan-List: Re:Left-handed long guns -       Re: MtMan-List: AMM -       MtMan-List: Bannerman Sites -       Re: MtMan-List: FOR THE RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? -       MtMan-List: Re: For the Record -       RE: MtMan-List: Re: For the Record -       MtMan-List: New Column in Muzzleloader -       Re: MtMan-List: FOR THE RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: For the Record -       Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles -       Re: MtMan-List: New Column in Muzzleloader -       Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles -       Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles -       Re: MtMan-List: Need ideas for trip -       MtMan-List: Kit Carson and his Hawkens ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 17:05:47 EST From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "left handed long guns", Barry Conner Wrote << I remember going to Bannerman & Sons in NY different times with my father and Uncles, if there had been any left handed long guns I must have missed them (probably because of the number of weapons seen on display-thousands>> Where in NY? the State or the City, does Bannerman & Sons still exist, and if it does, do they still have such a display it would be worth seeing. I'm just a black powder hunter and shooter and have never heard of them but I love to look at museum and private collections when time, money and opportunity present. Thanks for any info you can provide. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:12:33 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:hawkens--- On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:33:07 EST GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: > > Dick > I don't know how well you know this Guy from Logan. But I know him > Very well > and know that Hansen him self had seen this gun and wanted to trade > him out > of it. So it authenticity is in doubt buy you when others seem to > think it's > legit. By the way he did not pay big bucks for it he only paid $300 > for it > back in the very early seventies. At a gun show from someone off the > street > that had inherited it. I guess the other three Hawkins he owns are > phonies > too. This man has been collecting old muzzlers since 1950. I would > think he > knows his stuff And Has one of the finest collections fur trade > guns, traps > and knives I have seen in one persons privet collections. He has won > the best > of show at several gun shows for his collection junk as he calls it. > I wish I > could own such Junk. > Crazy Cyot Crazy--- who is this person you speak of in logan utah---please send me the info offline---he may have some of the art russel knock offs that were being passed as originals---please send me his address and phone---sure would like to talk to him a bit and then i'll let you know what i thank---a lot of people who cant afford a original get good copies then when documentation is lost thru death or other ??? they seem to appear as new found originals documented back to the 70's---that is the time span art was having copies made---I know a couple of secrets about the copies--- Nuff said--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) & "The Arkansas Underhammers" 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:23:31 -0700 From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "left handed long guns", Sorry, Bannermans is gone the way of the mountaineer, Bannermans Island where the Castle was built is very grown over almost totally obscuring what once was a thriving international firearms business. The last time I was there we weren't allow to go ashore as everything was private property. The Castle itself looked something like the rubble and debris of our Sept 11th tragedy. Charlie On Thu, 03 Jan 2002 17:05:47 EST CTOAKES@aol.com writes: > Barry Conner Wrote << I remember going to Bannerman & Sons in NY > different times with my father and Uncles, if there had been any > left handed long guns I must have missed them (probably because of > the number of weapons seen on display-thousands>> > > Where in NY? the State or the City, does Bannerman & Sons still > exist, and if it does, do they still have such a display it would be > worth seeing. I'm just a black powder hunter and shooter and have > never heard of them but I love to look at museum and private > collections when time, money and opportunity present. > > Thanks for any info you can provide. > > Y.M.O.S. > > C.T. Oakes > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:48:54 -0700 From: "BARRY CONNER" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "left handed long guns", > Sorry, > Bannermans is gone the way of the mountaineer, > Bannermans Island where the Castle was built is > very grown over almost totally obscuring what once > was a thriving international firearms business. The last > time I was there we weren't allow to go ashore as > everything was private property. The Castle itself > looked something like the rubble and debris of our > Sept 11th tragedy. > Charlie > Charlie, I was there two years ago this past fall with a buyer from Dixie Gun Works (Jim - can't remember his last name), we where allowed to look at what was still useable - which he had made a bid on, and then see some items that where out in the weather (roof was gone in some sections). One item was a complete gatlin gun that had fallen through the floor into a chamber below, one wheel had broken spokes - but all the metal bands where there, before we left another gentleman came in from the Gun Parts Inc group and was talking about buying the gun mentioned along with several bushel baskets of percussion locks, butt plates and misc hardware from muskets. There are tons of parts if you are with a firm that buys in large quantities like those mentioned. Probably there's 10 times that amount in rusted junk metal parts, who knows how muck cord wood in stocks and forearms, what a place this was. Their address was Francis Bannerman Sons - 501 Broadway, N.Y. this island is 4 miles north of West Point called "Bannerman Island Arsenal", founded in 1865. Like Charlie says it looked and still does look like an old European castle, but you have to know someone to even get on shore, now that it's owned by private investors. Another piece of American History, almost gone. Buck. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 01:18:21 +0000 From: "darlene secondine" Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Left-handed long guns Howdy Buck, Whew! You possibly opened a can of worms on this one. This topic is debated quite a bit here in the east. When you look at the evidence(american rifles handed down to us through posterity)american left-hand rifles are non-existant. I have seen only seen two left hand long guns in my experience. These two flintlock fowlers were real fancy highly chiseled and wire inlay rich european guns owned by royalty. And I repeat, European and only two. BTW, thanks for your help on the AMM question. Wanisi Nee'tees, Don Secondine _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:22:01 -0500 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Dick, I was thinking of you the other day. Heard something on the radio about Utah, the Olympics, and a ban on guns or something. Upon hearing that I mentioned to my wife that we still have relatives out there in Utah. She still is not buying into the tepee in the mountains idea, yet. Hope you and your family had a great holiday season. Take Care, Frank - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 2:02 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM > Frank > Hi, cuz . . . Good to see your name on the screen again. It seems like a > while. Enjoyed your comments pro and con on AMM. They have good goals, are > based on fine ideals, and have a few bragadocios. Trouble is . . . these can > be more noticable than the quality people just because of the noise they > make. Its good to know you have the skills of discernment to separate the > two extremes. > > Best wishes for this new year. > > Dick James > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:04:34 EST From: Ssturtle1199@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Bannerman Sites - --part1_be.207491ba.296667b2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: PCNR Bannermans Island Click here: Bannerman Island History -- A Hudson River Jewel Here are a couple of sites if you wants to research further. Till trails cross+ Turtle - --part1_be.207491ba.296667b2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: PCNR Bannermans Island
Click here: Bannerman Island History -- A Hudson River Jewel

Here are a couple of sites if you wants to research  further.  
Till trails cross+
Turtle - --part1_be.207491ba.296667b2_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:28:36 -0500 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOR THE RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? When I sit here on this computer typing and talking to others around the world, I do so in a way with much respect. I talk to this screen like I would talk across a fire or a table drinking a cup of hot coffee or sipping a good blend of whiskey. I have had agreements and many disagreements with people all over the world. But in all those discussions one thing remains true. That one thing is that I use my real name. I stand by what I say, be it right or wrong. I do not hide behind a different identity. I can respect a gent who comes out states his mind, be it right or wrong, as long as he believes in what he speaks. But a man who hides behind a diff. identity shows me that he is not secure or confident in his beliefs to stand behind them. Frank V. Rago - ----- Original Message ----- From: Clint Garrett To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:28 PM Subject: MtMan-List: FOR THE RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? > > If anyone has the inclination to try to understand > what and what was not said via this discussion group > they may click on the address at the bottom of every > posting to reveiw what is secured in the archives. Of > course those with lessor integrety may/will try to > delete all that was said as govts. do shred evidence. > > When someone says OUR in reference to their > communities football team do they imply they are on > the team? If someone says OUR church, in a > community/town that only has one church, does that > imply they are a member? > > When I said OUR brigade, is it possible that being > from Montana and proud of the fact, that I could have > been refering to OUR Brigade in the same manner? > > In veiw of the constant EXTRASENSITIVTY and ABSURD > OVERSENTIVE comeback remarks posted on this site, why > would anyone want to post their true idenity? > > Thus has it occured to anyone that Clint Garrett may > be derived from Clint Black and Pat Garrett? As it has > been posted, no one has found Clint Garrett in the > databases. As for my idenity, if it happens to arouse > someone's curosity and they think I am another citizen > on the planet; it was never my intention to cause any > greif for anyone resembling Clint Garrett. AND NO, > TRUTHFULLY CLINT IS NOT MY NAME, FOR THE RECORD. > > Why would any member want my address anyway? Am I the > noble canidate to receive an ANTHRAX LETTER from a AMM > member or a carload of goons at my door? I think we > need to Question Brotherhood here? > > I have a deep respect for those whom live the AMM > lifestyle, I said LIVE. > > As it has been explained as well as in print on the > AMM site PARTLY, the evolution of AMM. In it's > infancy it was a modern survivevalist organization not > revolutionaries against the state mind you. The > founder, a man with a name like a protected bear in > Montana changed it to escape harrassment by the feds > when the contempt for survivalists was running amuck. > In doing so the snooty types as well as purists and > hardcores found a vent to further their(and > mine)obsessions in regards to the current "buckskin > craze". > > As many of the old ones have continued the torch as > you see men of 60, 70, and hopefully beyond whom keep > evolving and challenge us as 'greybeards' the younger > aspiring skinners. > > They, thease giants whom have continued to grow are > the icons whom trully exemplify AMERICAN MOUNTAIN MEN. > While others by their infantile emotional reponses in > discussion/debate as well as their compromises in the > AMM lifestyle reflect to others that there are many > whom reseble if not trully are AMANDA'A MUFFIN MAIDS. > > I mean we all can read books and it is important to do > so. We all can make costumes and duplicate artifacts > of the pre 1840 period. But to trap, hunt, and > prosper from the land is another story. Some have in > my breif post history inferred that the reservation > indian has no weight in credibility; thus they have > little contact with him. Even though he has been > altered by govt. policy and a different social is he > worth knowing and should AMM or buckskiners interact > with them? Seems as I have read all trappers had some > interaction with them as in the documents of which > many worship as Jed's 66 he caried. > > This is my last post under this name. in veiw of the > clashes with many whom resemble AMANDA'S MUFFIN MAIDS > I will post under another name or names and deviate > from my style. Those of you whom seek the higher > vision, as i trully beleive everyone here trully does, > i hope will continue to 'bronze' into AMERICAN > MOUNTAIN MEN. Those others much of myself included, > will have to yeild to critism and scrunity or else > they will remain in their illusions and 'ivory tower' > status. By that i mean there are a few whom react as > if they have their PHD. and are the total authorities > on the info while others suck up to them for fraternal > security and political protection within the AMM( > whether AMERICAN or AMANDA'S). > > To all of you whom seek the > trail, > > CLINT GARRETT(but I'm not him) > > P.S. I will repeat this message from time to time for > the good of all of us. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 03:00:52 +0000 From: "darlene secondine" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: For the Record Well said Frank, Most of the people on this list are fine stand up people. I'd enjoy a sip a whiskey with ya, and palaver over a nice campfire, might even argue a point or two. But, I believe I would still enjoy the comaraderie and mutual respect that real men afford one another. My DELETE button works real good, I had missed this last post by CLINT??? Long winded,ain't he? Don Secondine(authentic name) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 22:10:13 -0500 From: ohilljack@cs.com Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: For the Record >Well said Frank, > Most of the people on this list are fine stand up people. I'd enjoy a sip >a whiskey with ya, and palaver over a nice campfire, might even argue a >point or two. I agree with you all...I'm just trying to figure out what he, she or it is trying to prove...This is a fine group, and I know I don't post often, because I'm in the shutup, listen and learn mode... And I believe in standing up proud of who I am...Also have been known to associate with the likes of Hawk Pierce (VBG)....Thanks to you all for the continuing education.... Hilljack (Bill Marney Sr.) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:41:41 -0700 From: Todd Glover Subject: MtMan-List: New Column in Muzzleloader This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ----__JNP_000_3d13.38e9.4f73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI... Rex Norman will be writing a new feature in Muzzleloader Magazine starting in the March/April edition. The feature will be entitled "The Far West." He says he already has the first three submissions completed, with ten more in the works. Most of you should recognize Rex's name from his fine chapter in the Book of Buckskinning VIII and his sketch book based on Alfred Miller's paintings. Naturally this feature will focus on the western fur trade period. Hoorah for Mountain Doins! "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 - ----__JNP_000_3d13.38e9.4f73 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FYI...
 
Rex Norman will be writing a new feature in Muzzleloader Magazine= =20 starting in the March/April edition.
The feature will be entitled "The Far West." He says he already has = the=20 first three submissions completed, with ten more in the works. Most of you= =20 should recognize Rex's name from his fine chapter in the Book of = Buckskinning=20 VIII and his sketch book based on Alfred Miller's paintings. Naturally this= =20 feature will focus on the western fur trade period.
 
Hoorah for Mountain Doins!

"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784
- ----__JNP_000_3d13.38e9.4f73-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:12:07 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: FOR THE RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? > > Why would any member want my address anyway? Am I the > > noble canidate to receive an ANTHRAX LETTER from a AMM > > member or a carload of goons at my door? Clint my man, you are a total prig and a boor!!! How DARE you say such a thing in light of what has happened? You send me unsolicited emails... berate my friends here... HOW DARE YOU?? And all with NO GUTS to use your real name... Get a life and go bother other people!! Addison Miller (My REAL name... and I'll be glad to give you my address if you guarantee you'll come see me and allow me to teach you some manners the Mountain way!!) (In no way a threat... just a request) Alderson, WV - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:15:47 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: For the Record >...Also have been known to associate with the likes of Hawk Pierce (VBG)....Thanks > Hilljack (Bill Marney Sr.) Damn... there goes the neighborhood!!! See you two at Alafia... and anyone else who wants to stop by the Mouse House during the event.... (wonder if Hawk will remember the turkey call he promised me 2 years ago... ) Got plenty of Mead brewed and ready, and we go from there... Regards, Ad - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:41:52 -0700 From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles Jerry Have you ever tried to stabilize that center fire saddle with a sircingle? A sircingle was a very common item as it appears is just about all of the inventories and trade goods lists that I have studied --- I wonder if this extra strap helped hold those light center fire saddles in position. Can you direct me to the source of the "description of a saddle Jed Smith acquired in California in 1826 or 27" ?? I am always looking for first person descriptions of fur trade saddles. Clay Landry Moorhead MT - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:19 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles > Dog, > > I ride a reproduction 1826 Gourd Horn Mexican Saddle. It is 3/4 rigged and > was built based on a description of a saddle Jed Smith acquired in > California in 1826 or 27. It would slip all over the place if I didn't use > an old style breast collar since it has no sheep skin underneath. All of my > gear is period correct with the exception of the breast collar. I doubt > that it is but I will still use it anyway because it has kept the saddle > from slipping back to my horse's ass on many occasions. I ride in some > really hilly country and it is a necessity. In the end, though, all the > breast collars in the world won't really matter if you don't have a good seat. > > Best Regards, > > Jerry Zaslow #1488 > ____________________________________________________________________________ ____ > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 23:03:03 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New Column in Muzzleloader Teton, Glad to hear it! I've been impressed with Rex's work and very much look forward to this new addition. Not alot of RMFT in ML..... Allen At 08:41 PM 1/3/2002 -0700, you wrote: >FYI... > >Rex Norman will be writing a new feature in Muzzleloader Magazine >starting in the March/April edition. >The feature will be entitled "The Far West." He says he already has the >first three submissions completed, with ten more in the works. Most of >you should recognize Rex's name from his fine chapter in the Book of >Buckskinning VIII and his sketch book based on Alfred Miller's paintings. >Naturally this feature will focus on the western fur trade period. > >Hoorah for Mountain Doins! > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles Clay, Good to hear from you. As far as the Jed Smith reference, Tom Nichols made my saddle. He is a Brother here in California and that is what he told me. I should see him in March at the Mission Doings and will specifically ask him for the reference at that time. I know it is not in his Journal, "The Southwest Expedition of Jedediah S. Smith, His Personal Account of the Journey to California, 1826-1827" or I missed it when I read it. As far as the sircingle, I have never used one because although I recall hearing the term, I can't remember where I saw it and don't remember exactly what it is. Is it a type of breast collar or something different? Actually after getting used to my saddle (about 4 years ago) I have not had any problem with it slipping anymore. That was more when I first started riding it. I also use a couple of blankets and that seems to have fixed the problem with slipping. Tell me more about the sircingle, though. Thanks and Best Regards, Jerry Zaslow #1488 ________________________________________________________________________________ At 09:41 PM 01/03/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Jerry > >Have you ever tried to stabilize that center fire saddle with a sircingle? A >sircingle was a very common item as it appears is just about all of the >inventories and trade goods lists that I have studied --- I wonder if this >extra strap helped hold those light center fire saddles in position. > >Can you direct me to the source of the "description of a saddle Jed Smith >acquired in California in 1826 or 27" ?? I am always looking for first >person descriptions of fur trade saddles. > >Clay Landry >Moorhead MT >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:19 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles > > >> Dog, >> >> I ride a reproduction 1826 Gourd Horn Mexican Saddle. It is 3/4 rigged >and >> was built based on a description of a saddle Jed Smith acquired in >> California in 1826 or 27. It would slip all over the place if I didn't >use >> an old style breast collar since it has no sheep skin underneath. All of >my >> gear is period correct with the exception of the breast collar. I doubt >> that it is but I will still use it anyway because it has kept the saddle >> from slipping back to my horse's ass on many occasions. I ride in some >> really hilly country and it is a necessity. In the end, though, all the >> breast collars in the world won't really matter if you don't have a good >seat. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Jerry Zaslow #1488 >> >____________________________________________________________________________ >____ >> >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:42:00 -0700 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles I use a 7/8 rigged saddle with a crupper and a martingale. all three are made by myself. I tried to style the martingale, aka breast collar as authentically as far as my skills and research could lead me. I have also gone out on a limb and discreetly lined the skirts with sheep skin. with all that, the saddle doesn't budge going up or down. I think, with the aid of the sheep skin. if I kept the cinch adjusted correctly, checking it every hour or two, I could leave the martingale and crupper at home. another reason I lined my saddle skirts is that it cuts down on saddle sores and since I ride whatever I can beg borrow or steal. the extra padding helps to minimize fitting problems with different animals. I also use a surcingle with a brown/black sheepuffalo, [Navajo sheep skin}mochia that makes for a very comfy and secure seat. Tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry & Barbara Zaslow" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:19 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles > Dog, > > I ride a reproduction 1826 Gourd Horn Mexican Saddle. It is 3/4 rigged and > was built based on a description of a saddle Jed Smith acquired in > California in 1826 or 27. It would slip all over the place if I didn't use > an old style breast collar since it has no sheep skin underneath. All of my > gear is period correct with the exception of the breast collar. I doubt > that it is but I will still use it anyway because it has kept the saddle > from slipping back to my horse's ass on many occasions. I ride in some > really hilly country and it is a necessity. In the end, though, all the > breast collars in the world won't really matter if you don't have a good seat. > > Best Regards, > > Jerry Zaslow #1488 > ____________________________________________________________________________ ____ > > At 06:58 PM 12/25/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >I have not tried packing with a center fire pack > >saddle, but do ride an 1870's stock saddle which > >appears to be of Texas or Southwest origin. I have > >chased cows several times in the Uintas with it, and > >guarantee it slips a lot, especially on fat ol' grain > >fed ponies with no withers going up a steep grade. Not > >only does it slide back if not tightened at regular > >intervals, it will roll sideways when dismounting in > >order to tighten it. After a few ventures that could > >have turned into real rodeos on panicky horses > >(fortuneately none of the poor nags I rode had that > >much spirit, or were used to stupid things happening) > >I had it shifted to a 3/4 rig, and started using a > >breast collar. In the country up here, it is pretty > >much a necessity if you go at anything faster than a > >walk. Are breast collars period? I don't know. Are > >they needed? Damn straight, pardner, at least with a > >center fire rig. > > While on the subject of saddles, someone wrote > >about a saddle for $3.00, and a complete saddle for > >$5.00. If I remember right, a saddle was just the > >tree, and a complete saddle was a rigged tree. That's > >all for now from the high country, Happy Holidays, Dog > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > >http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 07:02:13 -0600 (CST) From: "S. Gilbert" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need ideas for trip 'Morning Camp, Thank you all so much for the suggestions and help in finding some events to attend around Yellowstone. Brian and I are so excited to finally be getting out where it all happened. I'll keep ya posted on events, Sue Gilbert 6 Beaver Camp On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:15:08 -0800, rtlahti wrote: >Sue, > >I clipped this off the mlml list so as not to have to retype it since it >gives so much information and encouragement to attend. I can vouch for the >hype. For a non AMM event the RMNR is one heck of a great Rendezvous that I >don't council anyone to ever miss if they have never made it. I would >encourage you to change your schedule to encompas this event. Other than the >RMNR and the Pacific Primitive which is almost as big out in OR. earlier in >June I don't know of any events in your time frame. > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Re: the 2002! Rocky Mountain National Rendezvous... >For the benefit of list members who have not(recently)attended: >It is July 12th thru 20th. >It is at Elk Park, Utah, just south of Manila, Utah. >The RMNR has been there at least three times before. >It is a nice site...and the RMNR is a 'good-un'! Usually about 800 camps >and about 150-200 traders! >It is not necessarily for 'beginner, first-time rendezvousers'...unless you >been practicin'! >But it is not AMM either! You can't come as a "Bib-skinner"...but you can >definitely be a pilgrim if you and your camp meet the minimum pre-1840's >threshold. >If you want to know how LITTLE you can bring and get by, >ask TOF! >If you want to know how MUCH you can carry to Rendezvous, ask me! (My only >excuse is I have several times had 20+ adults and kids in my camp, and I >love it!) >The shooting program varies, and can be as good or bad as the willingness of >the participants to get involved...but there are a lot of shooters of all >ages... >Also, TOF and Carney seemed to have picked up a flinter or two at the 2001 >Rendezvous, undoubtedly again taking advantage of those of us of lesser >knowledge and acumen! >NOW that you can look at the photos...you can get an idea of what its >like...I really do like to encourage those who WANT to go, but are concerned >that the RMNR is just too 'regimented"...to just go for it! > > >Eric in Wyoming > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:39:50 -0500 From: David Usner Subject: MtMan-List: Kit Carson and his Hawkens Your discussion about the Hawkens rifle has brought me out of my burrow. I've been writing a play about Kit Carson and his Hawkens rifle. I wanted to purchase a fairly good copy of this rifle. (Don't think I can afford an original.) What should I look to spend on this and where should I look for it? Dave - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 9:12 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:hawkens--- > > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:33:07 EST GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: > > > > Dick > > I don't know how well you know this Guy from Logan. But I know him > > Very well > > and know that Hansen him self had seen this gun and wanted to trade > > him out > > of it. So it authenticity is in doubt buy you when others seem to > > think it's > > legit. By the way he did not pay big bucks for it he only paid $300 > > for it > > back in the very early seventies. At a gun show from someone off the > > street > > that had inherited it. I guess the other three Hawkins he owns are > > phonies > > too. This man has been collecting old muzzlers since 1950. I would > > think he > > knows his stuff And Has one of the finest collections fur trade > > guns, traps > > and knives I have seen in one persons privet collections. He has won > > the best > > of show at several gun shows for his collection junk as he calls it. > > I wish I > > could own such Junk. > > Crazy Cyot > > Crazy--- > who is this person you speak of in logan utah---please send me the info > offline---he may have some of the art russel knock offs that were being > passed as originals---please send me his address and phone---sure would > like to talk to him a bit and then i'll let you know what i thank---a lot > of people who cant afford a original get good copies then when > documentation is lost thru death or other ??? they seem to appear as new > found originals documented back to the 70's---that is the time span art > was having copies made---I know a couple of secrets about the copies--- > > > Nuff said--- > > "HAWK" > Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) > & "The Arkansas Underhammers" > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 > E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: > http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #921 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.