From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #923 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, January 6 2002 Volume 01 : Number 923 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: stirrups -       Re: MtMan-List: stirrups -       Re: MtMan-List: Re:Left-handed long guns -       MtMan-List: Stirrup Irons -       Re: MtMan-List: need to unsubscribe temporarily -       MtMan-List: a few understand, most do not care too! -       MtMan-List: Footwear -       Re: MtMan-List: Footwear -       Re: MtMan-List: a few understand, most do not care too! -       Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles -       WAS:MtMan-List: a few understand..NOW: Stop It!!! -       Re: WAS:MtMan-List: a few understand..NOW: Stop It!!! -       Re: MtMan-List: surcingles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:49:02 EST From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: stirrups - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:51:57 EST From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: stirrups Missed most of this discussion, but if you are looking for bent wood stirrups, I bought a pair a week or so back, only they do have a piece of galvanized tin around them. I wouldn't think that would be to hard to remove. Picked mine up for under $30.00. I see the fairly often if you need help. Joe AKA Ridge Pole - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:58:08 -0700 From: "BARRY CONNER" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Left-handed long guns - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 8:38 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Left-handed long guns On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:31:42 -0700 "BARRY CONNER" writes: So once again my question is "how common is a left handed long gun" and "would the common man, trapper, adventurer and so on of poor to normal wealth been able to afford one if wanted. I'm asking for your (members) thoughts on this one, I really don't know and would be only guessing - no proof or documentation ! Wanishi, Buck - ----------------------- buck I agree with you on only seeing fancy left handed guns probably owned by persons of high stature and means --but I have a right handed gun that has the stock notched our so that the shooter can use his left eye to shoot with looks like some one relly butchered the butstock gun is dated late 1700 to early 1800 it is flint probably for someone who had their right eye put out and didnt think to shoot the right handed gun left handed---you can see the sights easy with your left eye if you get a spot weld---big hunk out of that butstock---relly looks strange---have kept it just because of that cant say when it was altered of if it was made that way it was a very old fix--- - ------------------------------------ have a percussion gun done the same, as well as an 1893 Marlin rifle done the same by my grandfather who was blinded later in life in his right eye, he said he had the hold down so why change. - ------------------------------------ I have never seen original poorboy in left hand or a tenn or verginia gun nor a northwest gun and as you say most of the originals were quite fancy (high doller type) and all that i have seen were rifles not smoothbores---and i have probably fondeled several thousand originals in my time---no left hand original hawkens known by me---no left hand original lemans known by me----but who am i to say??? - --------------------- same here and I agree with what you said - --------------------- Special Order) and custom made----some of the records from back east might reflect left hand locks but probably would be as i say custom made and expensive ---IE almost the cost of the whole rifle---and a hawken sold for $8 to $12 during that period---to custom make a lock from scratch without patterns and such would take a lot of time---and it would be a one of a kind thing--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce - -------------------------- I entered this subject on the AMM member list and have received about the same response, no one has seen anything other than very high dollar left hand long guns that probably belonged to Lords, Dukes or well paid factors. See what Ray Glazner says; Buck, It was not uncommon for people to force lefties to do everything with their right hand up until the 1960s. I remember in school in the 40's and 50's anyone who tried to write with his/her left hand was punished (my friends in Catholic schools tell tales of the Nuns using rulers on thier knuckles. I too have been a collector and gun enthusiast since the late 40's and have seen very few left handers Including Bannermans and the many many museums I have been in both in the US and around the world. These include Smithsonian, Cody, Eagle, West Pt. Dixsons,Springfield, Museums in England, France, Germany, Italy Switzerland, and Australia. As a consultant and historian I have been in the private collection of many and the back room of a great many museums I also have an extensive book collection on firearms- ergo the conclusion I make is there were very few left hand guns at least of the surviving examples. Ray - -------------------- Aux Aliments de Pays! - ------------------------------------- Let's keep looking. Buck. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 13:12:33 -0700 From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Stirrup Irons Don asked > What is the title of that book by Cunningham. I want to peek at it. Lighting Grandma’s Fire by Bill Cunningham ISBN 1-890437-33-6 Sort of a how to book with multiple projects. Not to bad as books go. >I have a friend here in Ohio that cut his stirrups out of a block of real >thick wood and they look like the stirrups you see in paintings of the >period.Mexican or New Mexican looking things I do not see those type in Millers work or believe they were used a whole lot by RMFT in the North to Central Rockies. They also look big and bulky. Like I said I like the irons. >His saddle is made from a rawhide covered tree with straight straps > to hang his stirrups on and a cinch and that is about as simple as it gets. That’s mine also no seat, skirting, or fenders. But I do use a crupper especially with the mule. I have not noticed to much movement with this. It is rigged 3/4 and I slip the cinch a bit forward on most mounts, that kind of put a tension between the cinch and the crupper. C Kent wrote >I am forever being told to keep only the ball of my foot on the stirrup...so that if I fall or need to >dismount the stirrup will not catch my foot. And to weat slick bottomed shoes..smooth leather. >Sounds like greased-for-weather mocs fit the bill there. So could the question be keep the >english D-irons and get comfortable with cautious foot positioning. Allen Hall called me a horseman once and I take great pride in that compliment. I can do a fair job at riding the balls of my feet with heels down keeping a good seat. It was when the crupper broke and mule bucked the saddle onto her neck that it became difficult to keep the stirrups in the proper position. Fast work in the trees can have similar effect. OK honestly it was looking up from the ground after the mule bucked the saddle onto her neck and my foot was still in the stirrup that worries me! (She looked innocently down at me like she could not figure why I was lying around like that) >My boot got hung in the stirrup and I can still recall vividly what the underside of a galloping >mustang looks like. I got drug over the roots of a mulberry tree and turned loose just before the >pony tried to make it through the narrow gate with me dangling from said stirrup. My point exactly. Dog wrote: >They are the same as regular stirrups but a bit smaller >across, and also not as tall, thus making it >impossible for my foot to slip through even in mocs The problem here is that I use the same saddle with all kinds of footwear. I don’t always get dressed up to ride. I still think a rawhide strap run around from either side to side or top to bottom would be best. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:33:19 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need to unsubscribe temporarily Good luck John, and be safe.... hurry back.... Ad Miller Alderson, WV - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:32:41 -0800 (PST) From: Clint Garrett Subject: MtMan-List: a few understand, most do not care too! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Clint Garrett > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:28 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: FOR THE > RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? > > > > > > If anyone has the inclination to try to understand > > what and what was not said via this discussion > group > > they may click on the address at the bottom of > every > > posting to reveiw what is secured in the archives. > Of > > course those with lessor integrety may/will try to > > delete all that was said as govts. do shred > evidence. > > > > When someone says OUR in reference to their > > communities football team do they imply they are > on > > the team? If someone says OUR church, in a > > community/town that only has one church, does that > > imply they are a member? > > > > When I said OUR brigade, is it possible that being > > from Montana and proud of the fact, that I could > have > > been refering to OUR Brigade in the same manner? > > > > In veiw of the constant EXTRASENSITIVTY and ABSURD > > OVERSENTIVE comeback remarks posted on this site, > why > > would anyone want to post their true idenity? > > > > Thus has it occured to anyone that Clint Garrett > may > > be derived from Clint Black and Pat Garrett? As it > has > > been posted, no one has found Clint Garrett in the > > databases. As for my idenity, if it happens to > arouse > > someone's curosity and they think I am another > citizen > > on the planet; it was never my intention to cause > any > > greif for anyone resembling Clint Garrett. AND NO, > > TRUTHFULLY CLINT IS NOT MY NAME, FOR THE RECORD. > > > > Why would any member want my address anyway? Am I > the > > noble canidate to receive an ANTHRAX LETTER from a > AMM > > member or a carload of goons at my door? I think > we > > need to Question Brotherhood here? > > > > I have a deep respect for those whom live the AMM > > lifestyle, I said LIVE. > > > > As it has been explained as well as in print on > the > > AMM site PARTLY, the evolution of AMM. In it's > > infancy it was a modern survivevalist organization > not > > revolutionaries against the state mind you. The > > founder, a man with a name like a protected bear > in > > Montana changed it to escape harrassment by the > feds > > when the contempt for survivalists was running > amuck. > > In doing so the snooty types as well as purists > and > > hardcores found a vent to further their(and > > mine)obsessions in regards to the current > "buckskin > > craze". > > > > As many of the old ones have continued the torch > as > > you see men of 60, 70, and hopefully beyond whom > keep > > evolving and challenge us as 'greybeards' the > younger > > aspiring skinners. > > > > They, thease giants whom have continued to grow > are > > the icons whom trully exemplify AMERICAN MOUNTAIN > MEN. > > While others by their infantile emotional > reponses in > > discussion/debate as well as their compromises in > the > > AMM lifestyle reflect to others that there are > many > > whom reseble if not trully are AMANDA'A MUFFIN > MAIDS. > > > > I mean we all can read books and it is important > to do > > so. We all can make costumes and duplicate > artifacts > > of the pre 1840 period. But to trap, hunt, and > > prosper from the land is another story. Some > have in > > my breif post history inferred that the > reservation > > indian has no weight in credibility; thus they > have > > little contact with him. Even though he has been > > altered by govt. policy and a different social is > he > > worth knowing and should AMM or buckskiners > interact > > with them? Seems as I have read all trappers had > some > > interaction with them as in the documents of which > > many worship as Jed's 66 he caried. > > > > This is my last post under this name. in veiw of > the > > clashes with many whom resemble AMANDA'S MUFFIN > MAIDS > > I will post under another name or names and > deviate > > from my style. Those of you whom seek the higher > > vision, as i trully beleive everyone here trully > does, > > i hope will continue to 'bronze' into AMERICAN > > MOUNTAIN MEN. Those others much of myself > included, > > will have to yeild to critism and scrunity or else > > they will remain in their illusions and 'ivory > tower' > > status. By that i mean there are a few whom react > as > > if they have their PHD. and are the total > authorities > > on the info while others suck up to them for > fraternal > > security and political protection within the AMM( > > whether AMERICAN or AMANDA'S). > > > > To all of you whom seek the > > trail, > > > > CLINT GARRETT(but I'm not > him) > > > > P.S. I will repeat this message from time to time > for > > the good of all of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:47:16 -0500 From: Subject: MtMan-List: Footwear This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C19621.C777F820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was over at the AMM site reading a few of the supply logs for various = rendezvous. Mentioned in a few were boots. Do you know what kind of = boots these were? I have read many books and all mention mocs that the = mountain men and hunters wore. Did any of these gents wear boots? If = you could point me in the direction of some info., I would greately = appreciate it. Thanks, Frank V. Rago - ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C19621.C777F820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was over at the AMM site reading a = few of the=20 supply logs for various rendezvous.  Mentioned in a few were = boots. =20 Do you know what kind of boots these were?  I have read many books = and all=20 mention mocs that the mountain men and hunters wore.  Did any of = these=20 gents wear boots?  If you could point me in the direction of some = info., I=20 would greately appreciate it.
 
Thanks,
 
Frank V. = Rago
- ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C19621.C777F820-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 20:08:25 EST From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Footwear Frank, Although I can't find it off hand, I got some boots and hada some printed info from a company in Henrietta, Tejas called Buffalo Runner. They had done quite a bit of research of the footwear of the period, and produce what is, IMHO, a darn nice product. Their boots were also sold by a sutler out of Loveland, CO by the name of Cloak Drummer Company. Here's the last contact info I had. Barney Buffalo Runner Boots 107 South Bridge Street, Henrietta, TX 76365 (940) 538-5301 Cloak-Drummer Company Beverly Flitcroft 8328 Mummy Range Dr, Fort Collins, CO 80528-9216 (970) 622 - 9557 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:40:28 -0600 From: "Paul W Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: a few understand, most do not care too! Well Gang, True to his word, "Clint," the he/she/it mystery person has again posted his strange ramblings for all to consider. Some say he is from Dillon, Mt. I have been told that his last name is or might be Soule, but that is still subject to some further digging. Whatever his last name, I understand that he makes about the same impression in person on individuals with whom he has spoken as he does to those of us who have received his messages. I guess sick puppies are just too hard to put down, but if Dean Rudy has any magic powers, perhaps he can end this poor fellows dance with us. Just my thoughts, Paul - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Garrett" To: Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: MtMan-List: a few understand, most do not care too! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Clint Garrett > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:28 PM > > Subject: MtMan-List: FOR THE > > RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? > > > > > > > > > > If anyone has the inclination to try to understand > > > what and what was not said via this discussion > > group > > > they may click on the address at the bottom of > > every > > > posting to reveiw what is secured in the archives. > > Of > > > course those with lessor integrety may/will try to > > > delete all that was said as govts. do shred > > evidence. > > > > > > When someone says OUR in reference to their > > > communities football team do they imply they are > > on > > > the team? If someone says OUR church, in a > > > community/town that only has one church, does that > > > imply they are a member? > > > > > > When I said OUR brigade, is it possible that being > > > from Montana and proud of the fact, that I could > > have > > > been refering to OUR Brigade in the same manner? > > > > > > In veiw of the constant EXTRASENSITIVTY and ABSURD > > > OVERSENTIVE comeback remarks posted on this site, > > why > > > would anyone want to post their true idenity? > > > > > > Thus has it occured to anyone that Clint Garrett > > may > > > be derived from Clint Black and Pat Garrett? As it > > has > > > been posted, no one has found Clint Garrett in the > > > databases. As for my idenity, if it happens to > > arouse > > > someone's curosity and they think I am another > > citizen > > > on the planet; it was never my intention to cause > > any > > > greif for anyone resembling Clint Garrett. AND NO, > > > TRUTHFULLY CLINT IS NOT MY NAME, FOR THE RECORD. > > > > > > Why would any member want my address anyway? Am I > > the > > > noble canidate to receive an ANTHRAX LETTER from a > > AMM > > > member or a carload of goons at my door? I think > > we > > > need to Question Brotherhood here? > > > > > > I have a deep respect for those whom live the AMM > > > lifestyle, I said LIVE. > > > > > > As it has been explained as well as in print on > > the > > > AMM site PARTLY, the evolution of AMM. In it's > > > infancy it was a modern survivevalist organization > > not > > > revolutionaries against the state mind you. The > > > founder, a man with a name like a protected bear > > in > > > Montana changed it to escape harrassment by the > > feds > > > when the contempt for survivalists was running > > amuck. > > > In doing so the snooty types as well as purists > > and > > > hardcores found a vent to further their(and > > > mine)obsessions in regards to the current > > "buckskin > > > craze". > > > > > > As many of the old ones have continued the torch > > as > > > you see men of 60, 70, and hopefully beyond whom > > keep > > > evolving and challenge us as 'greybeards' the > > younger > > > aspiring skinners. > > > > > > They, thease giants whom have continued to grow > > are > > > the icons whom trully exemplify AMERICAN MOUNTAIN > > MEN. > > > While others by their infantile emotional > > reponses in > > > discussion/debate as well as their compromises in > > the > > > AMM lifestyle reflect to others that there are > > many > > > whom reseble if not trully are AMANDA'A MUFFIN > > MAIDS. > > > > > > I mean we all can read books and it is important > > to do > > > so. We all can make costumes and duplicate > > artifacts > > > of the pre 1840 period. But to trap, hunt, and > > > prosper from the land is another story. Some > > have in > > > my breif post history inferred that the > > reservation > > > indian has no weight in credibility; thus they > > have > > > little contact with him. Even though he has been > > > altered by govt. policy and a different social is > > he > > > worth knowing and should AMM or buckskiners > > interact > > > with them? Seems as I have read all trappers had > > some > > > interaction with them as in the documents of which > > > many worship as Jed's 66 he caried. > > > > > > This is my last post under this name. in veiw of > > the > > > clashes with many whom resemble AMANDA'S MUFFIN > > MAIDS > > > I will post under another name or names and > > deviate > > > from my style. Those of you whom seek the higher > > > vision, as i trully beleive everyone here trully > > does, > > > i hope will continue to 'bronze' into AMERICAN > > > MOUNTAIN MEN. Those others much of myself > > included, > > > will have to yeild to critism and scrunity or else > > > they will remain in their illusions and 'ivory > > tower' > > > status. By that i mean there are a few whom react > > as > > > if they have their PHD. and are the total > > authorities > > > on the info while others suck up to them for > > fraternal > > > security and political protection within the AMM( > > > whether AMERICAN or AMANDA'S). > > > > > > To all of you whom seek the > > > trail, > > > > > > CLINT GARRETT(but I'm not > > him) > > > > > > P.S. I will repeat this message from time to time > > for > > > the good of all of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:08:57 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles Dog, In the book "Man Made Mobile" the artist Kuntz shows that exact rigging where the cinch is at an angle to just behind the front legs, when used with the crupper which apears in manny of millers sketches will work real well. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: Ronald Schrotter >To: hist list >Subject: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles >Date: Sat, Jan 5, 2002, 8:56 AM > >The point that noone has mentioned about Center Fire >rigs is that when the saddle is properly positioned on >the horses back, the cinch goes around the largest >part of the horses barrel, so a little slide forward >or back and voila! the saddle is loose. rerigging to >a 3/4 or rimfire puts the cinch ahead of the barrel, >thus eliminating this problem. The rimfire setup also >would allow one to double rig, but I don't know how >period that is. I think that development came about >with cow work which sorta puts it out of our time >period. DOG > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:16:31 -0500 From: hikingonthru@cs.com Subject: WAS:MtMan-List: a few understand..NOW: Stop It!!! Hello Camp, I posted a message not too long ago with some outside observations about AMM brotherhood and impressions given bot pos. and neg. I usually try not to say anything to deride anyone, but Clint (since you prefer to go by that name)...for the love of Pete, stop your little game. It is stuff like that, that makes noone want to play with you! I am willing to bet if you just let it go and started asking some forthright questions and adding decent, helpful info. the timbre of the list toward you will change. That is just how I have seen it happen. Otherwise, I would humbly request that you withdraw from posting...or Mr. Rudy ban this person. I do not know about the rest of you, but I am tired of going through the postings like that. It just ain't fun no more. Sincerely (tired of this thread), C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 23:33:11 -0500 From: Subject: Re: WAS:MtMan-List: a few understand..NOW: Stop It!!! Why do some of you let him get under your skin? let him rant....In the end the only one he will make look bad is himself. Peace to all, "Cold Brass" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:16 PM Subject: WAS:MtMan-List: a few understand..NOW: Stop It!!! > Hello Camp, > > I posted a message not too long ago with some outside observations about AMM brotherhood and impressions given bot pos. and neg. > > I usually try not to say anything to deride anyone, but Clint (since you prefer to go by that name)...for the love of Pete, stop your little game. > It is stuff like that, that makes noone want to play with you! I am willing to bet if you just let it go and started asking some forthright questions and adding decent, helpful info. the timbre of the list toward you will change. That is just how I have seen it happen. > > Otherwise, I would humbly request that you withdraw from posting...or Mr. Rudy ban this person. > > I do not know about the rest of you, but I am tired of going through the postings like that. > > It just ain't fun no more. > > Sincerely (tired of this thread), > C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:10:27 -0700 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: surcingles webbing sounds like a damn good idea for a surcingle. Its cheaper, less bulky and would likely breath a lot better. mine is made out of leather and is pretty near 7' or 8' long, and it used to slip back of the girth and gall the horses belly till I put a little loop on the bottom of my cinch. I could see a nice strip of cotton webbing with a roller buckle and 2 leather billets neatly stitched to the ends. I believe I'm going to have a go at one, thanks Clay! for mentioning that. Tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clay J. Landry" To: Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 12:20 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: surcingles > Jerry > > A surcingle (spelled numerous ways in the trade ledgers of the Rocky > Mountain fur trade) was a large belt 3 to 4 inches wide-Grimsley made them > from webbing or leather- that was strapped around the saddle and the > horse/mule to further secure the saddle. They passed trhough the saddle seat > and around the grith of the horse/mule. Based on the drawings and art work > of Alfred Jacob Miller the mountaineers used a surcingle to hold the > ephismore -a piece of buffalo robe used to cover the saddle-in place. If you > study the military horse equipment books done by Randy Steffen you will see > that a surcingle was used over the military saddles from the early dragoons > clear into late Indian wars period. > > Clay Landry > Moorhead MT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 11:43 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles > > > > Clay, > > > > Good to hear from you. As far as the Jed Smith reference, Tom Nichols > made > > my saddle. He is a Brother here in California and that is what he told > me. > > I should see him in March at the Mission Doings and will specifically ask > > him for the reference at that time. I know it is not in his Journal, "The > > Southwest Expedition of Jedediah S. Smith, His Personal Account of the > > Journey to California, 1826-1827" or I missed it when I read it. > > > > As far as the sircingle, I have never used one because although I recall > > hearing the term, I can't remember where I saw it and don't remember > exactly > > what it is. Is it a type of breast collar or something different? > Actually > > after getting used to my saddle (about 4 years ago) I have not had any > > problem with it slipping anymore. That was more when I first started > riding > > it. I also use a couple of blankets and that seems to have fixed the > > problem with slipping. Tell me more about the sircingle, though. > > > > Thanks and Best Regards, > > > > Jerry Zaslow #1488 > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > > > At 09:41 PM 01/03/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > >Jerry > > > > > >Have you ever tried to stabilize that center fire saddle with a > sircingle? A > > >sircingle was a very common item as it appears is just about all of the > > >inventories and trade goods lists that I have studied --- I wonder if > this > > >extra strap helped hold those light center fire saddles in position. > > > > > >Can you direct me to the source of the "description of a saddle Jed Smith > > >acquired in California in 1826 or 27" ?? I am always looking for first > > >person descriptions of fur trade saddles. > > > > > >Clay Landry > > >Moorhead MT > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow > > >To: > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:19 PM > > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Center Fire Saddles > > > > > > > > >> Dog, > > >> > > >> I ride a reproduction 1826 Gourd Horn Mexican Saddle. It is 3/4 rigged > > >and > > >> was built based on a description of a saddle Jed Smith acquired in > > >> California in 1826 or 27. It would slip all over the place if I didn't > > >use > > >> an old style breast collar since it has no sheep skin underneath. All > of > > >my > > >> gear is period correct with the exception of the breast collar. I > doubt > > >> that it is but I will still use it anyway because it has kept the > saddle > > >> from slipping back to my horse's ass on many occasions. I ride in some > > >> really hilly country and it is a necessity. In the end, though, all > the > > >> breast collars in the world won't really matter if you don't have a > good > > >seat. > > >> > > >> Best Regards, > > >> > > >> Jerry Zaslow #1488 > > >> > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ > _ > > >____ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------------------- > > >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #923 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.