From: owner-kevin-and-lucy-digest@lists.xmission.com (kevin-and-lucy-digest) To: kevin-and-lucy-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: kevin-and-lucy-digest V1 #42 Reply-To: kevin-and-lucy-digest Sender: owner-kevin-and-lucy-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-kevin-and-lucy-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk kevin-and-lucy-digest Friday, June 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 042 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:55:05 EDT From: Subject: Re: K&L: swiss cheese In a message dated 98-06-02 12:02:46 EDT, you write: << KG, thanks for bringing up Madame Maia, cause I think there is a lot of parallels between that story and this one. >> Well then the fact that I don't have that storyline on tape is showing, isn't it ? I've got plenty of other K/L stuff, but not that. I'll have it soon enough, though. I've found a generous fan that's going to fix me right up. Then perhaps some of this will make more sense to me...... Regina - - ------------------------------ Date: Tues, 2 Jun 1998 15:41:50 MST From: eblood@xmission.com (Anne B) Subject: K&L: Monday's Episode I've just seen Monday's show and while I was on Kevin's side, I wonder if the writers wanted us to symphathize with Lucy. I didn't like Victor butting in and telling Kevin he shouldn't judge Lucy, and what was with that line by the hooker that before meeting Kevin she thought her pimp was bad? It seemed fairly unrealistic from what little I know from pimp/hooker relationships. I mean, I doubt a real pimp is going to say "Sure, sweety, you chat it up for a few more minutes now that I've posted bail," and I doubt a real hooker would keep her pimp waiting. I thought Kevin was right to be angry and exasperated with Lucy--but the hookers comment suggests we're supposed to think he is worse than someone who exploits women for money. Am I being oversensitive here? What does everyone else make of that hooker's line? - -- Anne B eblood@xmission.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:56:24 EDT From: Subject: Re: K&L: Monday's Episode I think the monday episode with Kevin and comment the hooker made was suppose to played for comic relief. I too was pretty much on Kevin's side but I nearly fell out of my chair with laughter when Victor still wearing his pimp outfit flipped on his shades turned to Kevin and said "Later." complete with two finger snaps. What bugged me was when Lucy threw Scott's assessment about Kevin being condescending in his face. Extremely bad form on Lucy's part I thought and if anything that made me more on Kevin's side--when people get nasty and mean like that its usually because they know they are in the wrong. Lucy knows what she's doing in wrong. The one thing out of this who thing Kevin has never berated Lucy for her actions to other people. He told Eve a few weeks ago, as they discussed Lucy's belief about her being a killer, while he believed she didnt kill anybody and said that Lucy "lives by her own truths." I like Lucy's character and I will always love Lucy and Kevin but if the writers wanted us to sympathize with Lucy's plight on Monday then, in my opinion, they seriously missed the boat :) I see myself sympathize with Eve, Scott, especially Kevin and little Serena and Sigmund. I think if Lucy truly admit her true motiviation for breaking up Scott and Eve I could have some sympathy for her too. And as for that hooker? Cha! She probably wished her pimp looked half as good as Doc did! LOL Tanya - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:18:27 -0400 From: Rika Subject: Re: K&L: Monday's Episode At 05:56 PM 6/2/98 EDT, Tanya wrote: >I think the monday episode with Kevin and comment the hooker made was suppose >to played for comic relief. I completely agree. When Kevin gave the hooker that *look* I just had to laugh. I too was pretty much on Kevin's side but I >nearly fell out of my chair with laughter when Victor still wearing his pimp >outfit flipped on his shades turned to Kevin and said "Later." complete with >two finger snaps. Agreed. I love that they're giving Nicholas Pryor a chance to have some fun. He has a nice flair for comedy. The other time he made me laugh recently was last Thursday near the end of the episode. It was a little thing, but Lucy was watching Kevin leave, and Victor came up behind her and said, "Lucy?" She jumped and shrieked, and then HE jumped and shrieked. What bugged me was when Lucy threw Scott's assessment about >Kevin being condescending in his face. Extremely bad form on Lucy's part I >thought and if anything that made me more on Kevin's side--when people get >nasty and mean like that its usually because they know they are in the wrong. Or because they think they've been treated badly by the other person. With Lucy I think it's a little of both. >Lucy knows what she's doing in wrong. Yeah, but I think in her world the ends justify the means, and she doesn't think there is *anything* wrong with her goal. The one thing out of this who thing >Kevin has never berated Lucy for her actions to other people. He told Eve a >few weeks ago, as they discussed Lucy's belief about her being a killer, while >he believed she didnt kill anybody and said that Lucy "lives by her own >truths." I like Lucy's character and I will always love Lucy and Kevin but if >the writers wanted us to sympathize with Lucy's plight on Monday then, in my >opinion, they seriously missed the boat :) Agreed. It's hard to see her POV sometimes because I think most of us (and, heck, most of the people on earth) think more like Kevin than like Lucy. I think for that reasons we are sometimes harder on her than we should be. But the poor guy has a point: they've been engaged for a year, and there always seems to be something more important than their wedding. And furthermore, I couldn't see why it was so hard for her to understand that Kevin would be unhappy about his fiancee being arrested for solicitation, and his father being arrested for being a pimp. I see myself sympathize with Eve, >Scott, especially Kevin and little Serena and Sigmund. I think if Lucy truly >admit her true motiviation for breaking up Scott and Eve I could have some >sympathy for her too. I think she has admitted her true motivations, to the extent that she understands them - I don't think she recognizes that jealousy is playing a role (though not the sole role) in her attitudes and choices. I really believe that she has deluded herself into believing that she's doing the right thing, because she's not introspective enough to truly examine what's going on in her mind and heart. I also feel more sympathy for Kevin and Eve (and Scott to a lesser extent) than I do for Lucy - but I'll be interested to talk about that some more after everybody has seen Tuesday's episode and the stuff that is bound to follow. Although I've excused Lucy's behavior more than most people lately, I've still been on Kevin's side. While I think I understand the forces driving Lucy, and while I don't think she is being intentionally hurtful, I think she has made some extremely bad choices which could cause people (herself included) a lot of pain. But I'm sensing that Kevin might be about to step a bit over the line with regard to Lucy's decision to tell Scott about Eve's past. We'll see. >And as for that hooker? Cha! She probably wished her pimp looked half as good >as Doc did! LOL I thought it was cool that Tammy the hooker was the same actress (and the same character) they've used a couple of times on GH. Rika - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:27:48 EDT From: Subject: K&L: Lucy and The Art of Letting Go I'm still fairly new to this list--which I'm really enjoying :)--so I dont know if you've discussed this already, though I'm sure you have. I think the writers, at least I'm hoping they are, are building up to a Lucy "I need to let Scott and Serena go" moment. Lucy's motivations go beyond jealousy or belief in Eve's guilt. This is Lucy's fear manifesting itself in the worse possible way. The writers havent delved into it yet, but the question still remains whether or not if Lucy can have a child on her own ever. She miscarried the baby she so badly wanted and loved : I think that still haunts her strongly to this day. Serena may be it. Lucy carried Serena, gave birth to her and nursed her until Scott took her away. Serena maybe the only child that Lucy will ever give birth to. I think that makes her cling to Serena.. Lucy doesnt want to replaced as the mother figure and Serena life because a mother figure may be the closes that she'll ever get to motherhood. Lucy loves Serena with all heart but she knows she not Serena's true mother in every sense of the word. That is heartbreaking for her. If Scott gets involved with another woman maybe even remarries some day, Serena would have another mother figure a step- mother who would have more access and a prescene in Serena's life and in Lucy's way of thinking that means that she'll be replaced and wont even get to be the mother figure anymore. I also think it has alot to do with Scott taking Serena away when she was an infant. I think Lucy is still very angry about that and is fearful that Serena may be gone again some day without a trace--that is after all a mother's worst nightmare to wake up and find your child gone one day. Is Lucy still in love with Scott? No. I believe that she loves Kevin completely body, mind and soul. I always believe that she loved Kevin but kinda thought that if Scott did return she'd be torn. But the incidents on Jassamine Island changed all that--Lucy found her soulmate, friend and lover in Kevin and he's her all and everything. But I think their are issues still between Scott and Lucy not necessarily romantic but issues of "who am I in your life now?" Its time that Lucy let them go. I dont mean by cutting herself off from them physically or even emotionally. But there is this part of Lucy that holds on to Scott and Serena to tight--she's afraid that if she lets them go they'll never come back. Its time that Lucy admits as much as she loves Serena and always will "she's not my little girl." its time that she says "Scott is my friend." She'll always care about and love them both dearly but if Lucy is to be truly happy with Kevin and with their own children she's going to have to learn to "let go." I think that once she able to admit to the fear, feel the fear and release herself from the fear everyone will be better off, happier and even closer. I really hope the writers are building up to something like this. I for one wanted Lucy and Doc to have years of wonderful, wacky, complicated, eventful years of marriage with lots of BABIES and a strong friendship with Scott and Serena and hopefully Eve. And Victor of course! Hey, could you imagine Victor as somebody's grandfather? LOL Hope this makes some sense, Tanya - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:49:16 -0400 From: Rika Subject: Re: K&L: swiss cheese At 10:21 PM 6/1/98 EDT, Regina wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-01 14:44:48 EDT, Rika write: >> But maybe that's about to change. I think the one who's changed recently > is Kevin, not Lucy. Jon Lindstrom talked about it in that recent interview > in SPW. He feels that Kevin is now someone very well in touch with his > emotions, and also with a sense of when he's had as much as he can take. >> > >I didn't see that interview :-( Is that Soap Opera Weekly? (can't figure out >what the P stands for ). I think at one point Soap Opera Weekly didn't want to be referred to as "SOW", so for a while (at least) people often abbreviated it "SPW." The habit stuck with me..... >I think it's about time that Kevin spoke up, IMO, both about her priorities >and the wedding. Did anyone else feel like he took the words right out of >your mouth? I sure did. You have to wonder if this is a sign that TPTB have been getting some mail about Kevin, Lucy, and weddings..... Don't get me wrong; I adore this couple, but I'd >like to wake Lucy up a bit - having everyone *except* Kevin at the top of her >list of priorities is getting tiresome to me. Agreed. Lucy is so single-minded, unfortunately, in her pursuit of the whatever is the urgent concern of the moment, that she tends to leave everything and everyone else in the dust. Tony talked about that a long time ago, in that Akavit-at-the-Outback scene with Mac and Kevin. I do think it comes back to what I said several posts ago - she takes Kevin for granted because she believes that she *can*, and that he'll still be there. In one sense that's quite a compliment, in terms of what it says about her trust in his loyalty and understanding. But she's not stopping to consider how she would feel if he treated her that way. In one sense what he said about their lack of a wedding was a *bit* unfair, since a lot of really awful stuff has happened to them and to their loved ones in the past year: * Serena's kidnapping * The miscarriage * Kevin's injury in the explosion * Scott's trial and conviction * Victor's illness * The General Homicide murders It's hard to think when the time has been right for a happy, grand occasion. I don't think that I would have wanted to have a big wedding while things like that were going on in the lives of people around me. But if getting married were really a priority, they could have had a quiet, low-key wedding, to be followed by a grand celebration at a more appropriate time. But I don't know - wouldn't we have been seriously ticked off by a tiny wedding performed by a Justice of the Peace, even with the promise of something more festive in the murky future? Rika - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:59:17 -0400 From: Rika Subject: Re: K&L: Lucy and The Art of Letting Go At 06:27 PM 6/2/98 EDT, Tanya wrote: >I'm still fairly new to this list--which I'm really enjoying :)--so I dont >know if you've discussed this already, though I'm sure you have. We may have discussed small elements of it, but nobody has put the pieces together, and certainly not with such eloquence! >I think the writers, at least I'm hoping they are, are building up to a Lucy >"I need to let Scott and Serena go" moment. Lucy's motivations go beyond >jealousy or belief in Eve's guilt. This is Lucy's fear manifesting itself in >the worse possible way. I've reluctantly snipped the rest, but your discussion of Lucy's fears expressed beautifully why I'm cutting Lucy a *lot* of slack where her pursuit of Eve's past is concerned. Thanks for putting into words what I couldn't seem to explain! And I hadn't thought about the "letting go" aspect, but I think you've nailed her problem. And Kevin obviously sense the same thing. We've mostly talked about how we wished Scott would butt out of Kevin and Lucy's life, but it does seem as though Scott has let go of Lucy in a way that she hasn't in reverse. I suppose this isn't surprising since in Lucy's case Serena is such a huge piece of the puzzle. My worry is that it may be a "chicken and egg" thing for Lucy. I agree that she'll never be able to be truly make a happy family with Kevin till she lets go of Scott and Serena, but at the same time I don't know if she'll ever be able to do that until she is able to give birth to a child she and Kevin conceived together. Rika - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:24:48 -0400 From: Barbara Cullen Subject: K&L: K&L s p o i l e r s p a c e I don't know about you guys but Lucy is starting to get on my nerves. She buds in where she is not wanted. It was not her call to tell Scott what Eve used to do that is Eve's call and hers alone. She is taking this obsession with Scott and Serena a bit to far. As for Kevin I applaud him for trying to be a friend to both Scott and Eve. Scott did push his buttons when he first came to town but they are starting to come to terms. Eve did nothing wrong" I would like to send her a get away from Lucy free card" lol. As for Lucy I read in the soap opera news this week that she is in danger next week. Tracey - - ------------------------------ Date: Thur, 4 Jun 1998 00:41:35 MST From: eblood@xmission.com (Anne B) Subject: Re: K&L: Monday's Episode (and Tuesday's) On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:56:24 EDT, wrote: >I think the monday episode with Kevin and comment the hooker made was suppose >to played for comic relief. I'm relieved to hear that people saw that scene as comic relief. A small part of me is afraid that Kevin will be revealed as the murderer (I don't trust these writers), so having him compared to a pimp set off paranoid alarm bells. >I nearly fell out of my chair with laughter when Victor still wearing his pimp >outfit flipped on his shades turned to Kevin and said "Later." complete with >two finger snaps. I haven't liked Victor in the past, but I'm liking him more and more and that moment made me smile too. I also liked how gallant he was about taking the blame for Lucy and I really liked his embrace with Kevin on Tuesday's episode (I'm a sucker for tender moments). >I see myself sympathize with Eve, >Scott, especially Kevin and little Serena and Sigmund. I think if Lucy truly >admit her true motiviation for breaking up Scott and Eve I could have some >sympathy for her too. I do sympathize with Lucy, especially after reading posts from her defenders on this list. Looking at the list of people you sympathize with made me realize I don't have much sympathy for Scott. Since returning to Port Charles he has manipulated and used Lucy's feeling for him and Serena to his advantage in dealing with the Rex crisis. I was quite angry with his remark on Tuesday that he is Serena's father and he gets to protect her (paraphrased). Scott asked Lucy to marry Rex to protect Serena and she almost made the ultimate sacrafice in protecting Serena. But I guess Lucy gets to protect Serena only when it's convienent for Scott. - -- Anne B eblood@xmission.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 17:53:13 -0400 From: Rika Subject: Re: K&L: Monday's Episode (and Tuesday's) At 12:41 AM 6/4/98 MST, Anne wrote: Looking at the list of people you sympathize >with made me realize I don't have much sympathy for Scott. Since >returning to Port Charles he has manipulated and used Lucy's feeling >for him and Serena to his advantage in dealing with the Rex crisis. >I was quite angry with his remark on Tuesday that he is Serena's >father and he gets to protect her (paraphrased). Scott asked Lucy >to marry Rex to protect Serena and she almost made the ultimate >sacrafice in protecting Serena. But I guess Lucy gets to protect >Serena only when it's convienent for Scott. You know, this is an excellent point. I knew that statement of Scott's bugged me, but I hadn't really thought about the reasons why. While I can understand why Scott was mad at Lucy when he said that, he has a history of being very inconsistent about Lucy's responsibilities where Serena is concerned. In fact, that very inconsistency may be one of the reasons why Lucy is kind of screwed up in terms of the nature of her relationship with Scott and Serena. Scott has been so completely inconsistent with Lucy where Serena is concerned. First he and Dom trusted her to carry their child; then, days after the baby was born, he didn't trust Lucy enough to take her with him when he left town, or even to tell her where he was going. Then he sends her annual videos, photos, and letters with all sorts of messages of gratitude, etc., etc. In one sense those could be viewed as a considerate act; in another perspective, it was a way of making sure she stayed somewhat of an emotional prisoner to her ties to him and to Serena. (Of course, we know she *never* forgot her ties to Serena, even without those reminders, but Scott may not have known that.) Her next contact? Scott, having her arrested for kidnapping Serena. Then, the next thing we know, he has installed himself in the Lighthouse and has influenced Lucy - who, let's recall, is pregnant - to cut Kevin out of the loop while she does all of the dirty work in dealing with the kidnapper. Next, Serena comes home (after *Kevin* figures out the clue), and Lucy has to strong-arm Scott (and disable his plane) to keep him from taking Serena and leaving. So it was okay for Lucy to risk her life dealing with the kidnappers, but he didn't think Lucy had any right to see Serena grow up. Once Scott decided to stay, everything seemed to go along nicely for about two minutes, until Scott's arrest. And then, as Ann said, he considered it Lucy's responsibility to sacrifice anything and everything to protect Serena. But in the midst of it, he decided to grab Serena and leave again (which would probably have been tantamount to signing Lucy's death warrant, since he needed Lucy's cooperation to get Serena away from Rex). The only reason he stayed in town was because Lucy wouldn't bring Serena to him. And now, it's *his* job to protect Serena. Wish he'd been singing that tune about six months ago, huh? Anyway, it's certainly easy to understand why Lucy would be so insecure and possessive when it comes to another woman entering Scott and Serena's life, when her position with Serena is entirely subject to Scott's whims. I know we all know this stuff - and have grumbled about it many times in the past - but I would *hate* to be in Lucy's position where Serena is concerned. And, relating to the "Lucy and letting go" idea, maybe this is Scott's subconscious way of maintaining some degree of hold over Lucy...... maybe she's not the only one who has to let go. Rika - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:36:02 EDT From: Subject: K&L: Adoption vs Pregnancy for K&L As I stated before I'm new to the mailing list so if I'm re-hashing an old subject my apologies :) This was brought up on a website on whether or not Kevin and Lucy should have children. The majority said yes--that Lucy and Kevin would make wonderful parents and who wouldnt want to have Victor as a grandfather. Poor Kevin though could you imagine the chaos his life would be with Lucy, Victor, Siggy and a couple of kids--not to mention all of Lucy's pals dropping in--Uncles Luke and Scott. I imagine Kevin having a conversation like this with his beloved child....... Kevin: (to child) Where's your Momma? Kid (s): Her and Grandpa Victor got arrested--AGAIN. Mom told me told us down to Uncle Scott's and get the bail money and if we saw you not to tell you about--oops. (Kevin leaving with the kid following) But Mom said it wasnt really lie--more like a moral grey if you please!! Yes life at the Collins house wouldnt be uneventful. Definantly everyone seems to want Lucy and Doc to have children but the question that came up from that discussion was: "Should they get pregnant or just adopt?" Adoption: Given the Collins's family history in mental illness and the fact that adoption storyline are usually filled with alot of drama, joy and angst--the biological mother giving the baby up, the adoptive parents bonding with the child only to have him/her taken away, and later being reunited with that child (or maybe not) make for interesting soap opera watching. Some people felt that a pregnany would only lead to another written in miscarriage. Perhaps the Collinses could adopt a teenager rather then a small child or infant--which would alos make for compelling storytelling. For example, Kevin could connect with a trouble young teen. He opens his heart and home to the kid despite Lucy's misgivings. On the other hand, because OF the Collins family's history with mental illness Kevin and Lucy should try and concieve another baby. The pending arrival of his own child would brining up alot of issues for Kevin--will he be like Melaine or Victor? Will his child turn out like him or like Ryan? If anything having his own biological child on the way would make Kevin want to delve further and further into the Collinses family history to find out what went so terrible wrong which would be a big issue between him and Victor. It would come down to the whole nature vs nuture issue. Could you imagine the dearly departed Ryan appearing to Kevin warning him that Kevin will be the same kind of parent that Victor and Melaine were to them? And what about Lucy? A woman who has had three miscarriages would be considered high risk--there would be also alot of medical drama, close calls and so forth on that side of coin too. My own opinion is that I would love to see Lucy and Kevin pregnant again (imagine what a wonderful wedding present that would make :-) Kevin and Lucy are dramatic and funny people. I believe that this could be one of the funniest, romantic, dramatic tear jerking pregnancies in daytime-- can you imagine all the crossovers from GH we would get as some of GH's most notorious parents dish out advice on the "Art of raising children" LOL. How about a happy but fat Lucy being given a baby shower. ( I personal hope by then Lucy and Eve's rivalry will be over and they've become pals. I can see Felicia and Eve trying to outdo each other planning the perfect baby shower) I can also see Mac coming over and Scott and Luke bogarting their way in as the foursome to put a baby crib together. Plus there is Victor, the Collins family history, visitations by Ryan, father issues for Kevin, pregnancy concearns for Lucy and watching K&L work these things out together. To be honest, I would love to see Lucy pregnant with twins either a boy or girl or twin boys--twin girls like Lucy would probably send poor Doc back over the edge. LOL . I think Kevin and Lucy would make wonderful parents and children could only add to the wonderful chaos that is the Lighthouse. Okay so to be so long I do tend to babble about my favorite dynamic duo :) Would love to hear your opinions.... Tanya - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:55:58 EDT From: Subject: Re: K&L: Wedding In a message dated 98-05-27 03:19:10 EDT, you write: x x x x x x x x x In case any of this is still spoiler info to anyone..... I'm with Taiyin on this one: >> Mac and Kevin I've missed. Lucy and Felicia I miss about as much as a 2nd degree sunburn.<< I would love to see some Kevin and Mac, I do miss them. Felicia and Lucy however--- let's just say I'd prefer not to see Felicia ever on PC. The sunburn analogy is a good one. As far as the wedding as a comedy hour goes: >> Definitely INCLUDE some comedy, as that is such a large part of what they are as a couple, but the idea of their wedding BEING a comic event makes me ill.<< Ditto. I am getting very afraid for this day. Ironic isn't it, since it's a day I've been looking forward to for over 4 years now. Sure, include a little comedy, but this is one time that Lucy is truly, seriously in love and committed to her groom for all the right reasons. This is not the occasion for another red dress and oversize hat, or any other gag that will make the whole wedding a farce. The double wedding idea is really scaring me. Kevin and Lucy do deserve a day of their own after all this time, as do we. Plus with Mac and Felicia involved, I can only see them playing the comedy angle of the whole thing. Then again like someone said, a wedding, any wedding that's legal, is better than nothing. You never know who Lucy will run off and marry to further some oddball scheme these days. She has been backsliding into the old Lucy of late. Anne - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:52:15 EDT From: Subject: K&L: Eve/Kevin Kinda Wondering.... Okay I know this is strictly about Lucy and Kevin--but this idea/speculation I have about Eve kinda pretains to Doc. :) Left some space because it mentions something that came up on Thursday show--in case you havent seen it. * * * s p a c e * * On Thursday show we found out from Eve that she didnt have a clue to who her father was. I've been thinking about this: Would it be cool if Kevin and Eve--because these two characters have such great chemistry--turned out to be half brother and sister? Remember this is a soap--anything is possible. I know old Vic was suppose to be in Europe but Victor is a professor he could have came back to the States as a guest lecture met Eve's mom and 9 months later.....Eve. I think it would make for great storyline telling, could you see the look of horror on Lucy's face! Not only is Eve her worst enemy, dating her best pal, getting chummy with her Serena but now could be her some day sister in law! Major issues of jealousy on Lucy part as Kevin and Eve slowly bond. LOL Or how about Kevin playing big brother with Scott not to mention the scenes between Eve and Kevin, Victor and Eve. I think it alot would have to be work out but I think Eve would make a welcomed additon to the Lighthouse Gang. Tanya - - ------------------------------ End of kevin-and-lucy-digest V1 #42 ***********************************