From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V1 #221 Reply-To: klr650@lists.xmission.com Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Saturday, September 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 221 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:26:59 -0500 From: "Jim Barthell" Subject: (klr650) Octane Debated just as much if not more than the oil type and level issues is the one of gasoline Octane. I have always used premium in my bikes and probably always will but at this point I have some arguments for the other side. I recently picked up a '98 4 liter Wrangler. As with all my vehicles I read the owners manual, It says, the vehicle was designed for 87 octane and a higher octane _could_ be detrimental to the motor. I had heard this before but never actually seen it in writing from a manufacturer. "Ok fine" I said to myself "I'll run regular in this puppy and give it a try". So I've had the Jeep for 3 or 4 weeks now and have over 5000 miles on it and it runs great. I'll continue to run 87 in it. I know when I run 87 in my KLR it runs like crap. Did I create this condition by running premium in it from the beginning? If I run several tanks of regular through it will it "get better?". Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 12:34:58 -0600 From: Bob Ranney Subject: Re: (klr650) Motorcycle-specific oils I've switched to mobil1 in all my vehicles...my wet clutch kawi takes mega abuse and mobil1 keeps it running cooler and with better mileage than i was getting with g/spectro...discoloration? nope....available everywhere? yep its pretty subjective but if paying 2-3X more much makes you feel better then its worth every penny. ericjazz@mindspring.com wrote: > The problem with bikes is the clutch. I read an article on this some time > ago, believe it was Gordon Jennings in Motorcyclist. To the best of my > recollection, the clutch exhibits "shearing" actions on certain polymer > molecules in the oil, breaking it down much faster than an engine without a > wet clutch. Motorcycle-specific oils tend to have different types of > polymers in them to protect against this shearing action. I do not know if > they all do, or if some shoddy folks merely make this claim. > > My terms may be incorrect, some items above may be incorrect, but the key > is, if you have a wet clutch, use a bike-specific oil. I've heard of people > using Mobil1 in their bikes. Do they remember what it looked like when it > came out of the bike? I did this once on a 4-cylinder streetbike, the > shifting started getting notchy, so I figured, maybe I shouldn't be using > this car stuff, better change the oil again. That Mobil1 came out the drain > plug cascading like the case was filled with black water. > > I have always used Spectro for break-in, Golden Spectro once I get some > miles on the bike. It is $5-$6 a quart, but our bikes don't hold that much > oil anyway. Figure ~$20 an oil change with filter when you buy in bulk. It > is money well spent in my opinion. > > Cheers... - -- Bob Ranney Denver, CO '96 R11GS beeg dog '76 R60/6 putt putt (its gone but not forgotten...sniff, sniff) '95 ZX6-R yee haa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:13:03 -0600 From: "Kurt Simpson" Subject: (klr650) Fw: BOUNCE klr650@lists.xmission.com: Non-member submission from [Wayne Dennison ] - -----Original Message----- From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 12:22 PM Subject: BOUNCE klr650@lists.xmission.com: Non-member submission from [Wayne Dennison ] >>From tqmwayne@yahoo.com Fri Sep 04 12:22:57 1998 >Received: from (send102.yahoomail.com) [205.180.60.90] > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0zF0Vc-0003dc-00; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:22:56 -0600 >Message-ID: <19980904182318.2036.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> >Received: from [148.126.100.100] by send102.yahoomail.com; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:23:18 PDT >Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:23:18 -0700 (PDT) >From: Wayne Dennison >Subject: Rear shock Rebuild....? >To: klr650@lists.xmission.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >I Live in the Phoenix, AZ area.... > >and just bought an '87 KLR650 > >The Rear shock is blown....and one of the front fork seals too.... > >I found a a company in town that can rebuild the Rear shock.... > > >I was told that they were too busy to help me out in the time frame I >wanted......but I could call any "RaceTech" Dealer and they would be >able to rebuild my stock shock for me.... > >I cannot find any other Racetech Dealer. > >I couldnt tell if this was the company name or the product name.... > >Anybody heard of Racetech Products? >Anybody heard of this Shock Rebuild working well? > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:35:06 -0600 From: "Kurt Simpson" Subject: Re: (klr650) Octane >I know when I run 87 in my KLR it runs like crap. Did I create this >condition by running premium in it from the beginning? If I run several >tanks of regular through it will it "get better?". > >Jim Jim, I ran 87 for the first 1700 miles on my A12 and always had knock under load...now gone with 91... Kurt (wish it weren't so) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:48:05 -0700 From: "Robert Morgan" Subject: Re: (klr650) Octane Jim here is my understanding of this issue. I work in the service dept at a Honda auto dealership as a service adviser, used to be the shop foreman, and as such the technical liason between HMC and our shop. I've had to deal with this a bit . This started here in Ca. with the reformulation of the fuel to include methyl tertery butyl ether. (MTBE). This is supposed to reduce the amount of CO out the tailpipe. Since most auto manufacturers have to contend with CA. emissions as the upper end benchmark for emissions engineering they have taken CA. fuel standards into consideration. Most cars sold in the U.S. now conform to CA. standards as well as Federal standards, Hondas do anyway. All new cars are fuel injected now and have been refined to run on unleaded fuel without damage to the valve seats or faces. High octane fuels availible now are primarily blended for cars originally ment to run on leaded fuel with carberation as the fuel management system, Consequently those higher grade fuels have additives in them to prevent valve seat wear more so than the lower octane fuels. The fuel injected cars will have a tendency to load up with the higher octane blends if only driven on short hops where the sensors never get warm enough to reach their threshold. Its like leaving the choke on all the time in a carberated car. It leaves soft carbon in the combustion chamber which keeps the intake valves from sealing and sometimes floods the car. For the last 3 or 4 years we have had the federal govt. standardizing emissions standards and procedural guide lines. OBD-1 was the first recent hurdle. OBD stand for "on board diagnostics." It standardized all different manufacturers technical terminology and computer diagnostic equipment datalink connections. The independent repair shops would have to have dozens of different breakout computers before this. OBD-2 went on to set computer standards on emissions levels on a federal level, and to standardize emissions proceedures with respect to engineered systems (if you leave the gas cap loose on a OBD-2 car it will turn the "check engine light" on). The OBD-2 cars are tweaked to run on lower octane with no lead. Our klrs need higher octane fuel as a result of compression requirements and I suspect cylinder head temp. Honda as a corporate entity is very careful to stop short of reccomending one brand of fuel over another for letigious reasons, however the tech engineers we talk to when problems arise tell us to tell people to use a fuel with techron addivives in it. Chevron is the only fuel with this as far as I know. They do sell a concentrate bottle if you want to mix it yourself. Now if you want to discuss the petrochemical/political issues involved in who got paid off, by whom and toward what end....thats a whole other story. One of the more scandalous side stories to the MTBE saga is the fact that this crap is very toxic to wildlife (or tamelife) in ground water....they are already finding it in Lake Tahoe! It also promotes the rapid deterioration of rubber seals and fuel lines not specially treated for it. Like older cars and motor cycles. The fire hazard ( which has been faulted in numerous car fires in CA.) was omitted from the report sent to the Ca. assembly to get this stuff originally approved. The assemblyman (don't remember who it was) said we Californians owed it to the oil industry for having invested so much money in a factory to make it. Starting to smell a rat here? Morgan its what you DON'T read in the papers thats REALLY SCARY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:43:32 -0700 (PDT) From: frjsmithjr@webtv.net (Francis Smith) Subject: (klr650) Car Oil Vs. Motorcycle Oil (again) Gordon Jennings writes in the October issue of Motorcyclist about this on-going issue. Basically the federal DOE has mandated that motor oils now must contain friction modifiers for low fluid drag which will yield a reduction in fuel consumption: initially a 1.5% reduction and now a 2.7% reduction. Friction modifiers make the oil more slippery, which is not good for motorcycle starter motors and wet clutches. Jennings states that, "the API service catagories SH and SJ Energy Conserving motor oils should be labled 'Motorcyclist Beware'. Jennings opines that motorcyclists can avoid trouble by buying no motor oils thinner than SAE 10W40, as he's seen no energy-conserving qualities claimed for the thicker grade oils. Jennings further states that the 10W40 and 20W50 oils should keep a bike's clutches healthy, and that thicker oils are better for transmission gear teeth FWIW Jim - Palmdale. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:14:24 -0600 From: scooter scum Subject: RE: (klr650) KLX mods? Mike Ratta writes: >Any KLX owners recommend any motor mods for this bike? Also has anyone >swapped the rear damper and swingarm from the KLX650A model onto the C >model? Its a nice aluminum swingarm and the damper is adjustable. TIA You don't want to go there! After close to $2300 of engine work, My KLX650C is extreamly unreliable now. I tried the White Brothers all around cam, would not start, Had the cams reworked -- because white brothers would not take them back, used part you know -- by Mega cycle cam....still would not start, Almost back to stock specs, still will not start with out either. When started it runs GREAT!! Dynoed at 42 HP, but will only start if left in the sun for hours on a 100 degree day. The engine is close to perfect, look at maybe carb changes (Keline 41mm FCR from the Yamaha WR400 or so). Maybe look at MegaMax exhaust. I have found the exhaust is interchangeable between the KLX650R and the KLX650C from the header back. K&N is about a good as it is going to get....if you want to stay reliable. My personal opinion is that there is $0 going into R&D for Kawasaki 650's. You might consider Quality Engine R&D is your best bet. Steve can be reached at 334-693-9203 Steven "scooter scum" Johnson '95 KLX650C - Cheaper than therapy (but not by much) '95 KLX250/321 - Just call me yellow britches '95 K1100RS - Mileage Monster '92 TDM850 - Dual sport of course ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:15:03 -0700 From: "Eric Rhoads" Subject: Re: (klr650) Car Oil Vs. Motorcycle Oil (again) - -----Original Message----- From: Francis Smith To: klr650@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 3:44 PM Subject: (klr650) Car Oil Vs. Motorcycle Oil (again) Jennings opines that motorcyclists can avoid trouble by buying no motor oils thinner than SAE 10W40, the 10W40 and 20W50 oils should keep a bike's clutches healthy, and that thicker oils are better for transmission gear teeth Jim - Palmdale. ====================== I guess this leaves out the new 0W-30 synthetic I recently saw......I think it was Mobil, and they made strong claims for suitability. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:55:46 EDT From: AGSholar@aol.com Subject: Re: (klr650) Height of new windscreen In a message dated 9/2/98 12:34:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stuart@heaslet.com writes: << What size Clearview windscreen should I buy to move airflow above my head? I'm 6 feet tall, and the factory windshield seems to direct air to my nose >> I have a +10" Clearview that justs gets the wind over my extra large helment. I am 5'-8" tall and ride in an upright position. I can still see over the top of the windshield (barely) so rain is not a problem. My gripe with the Clearview is that it is too narrow and the wind still buffets my head from the sides unless you lean far forward. This creates a lot of wind noise which bothers me but may not be a concern for others. Greg A2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:03:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Clay Subject: Re: (klr650) Octane >I know when I run 87 in my KLR it runs like crap. Did I create this >condition by running premium in it from the beginning? If I run several >tanks of regular through it will it "get better?". > >Jim I don't know, Jim. I ran 87 in my 97 for the first year and then switched to higher octane in the middle of a long road trip, and was amazed at the difference. The bike was noticeably smoother and more powerful. Of course, when those long polymers in my Mobil 1 shear, I'll be right back to square 1.... Tom Clay Winnipeg MB Canadian KLR's don't need no steenking motorcycle oil..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 20:31:03 -0600 From: bruixot@rmi.net Subject: Re: (klr650) Octane > MTBE is another way that the government allows petroleum companies to sell (and tax) "air" in place of fuel (BTUs) since part of the chemical composition of MTBE includes more available-oxygen compounds and fewer hydrogen compounds, by volume, and produces a blend which runs hotter in most engines but ironically produces less horsepower per unit volume. It is a waste of time (and money, and other things) in engines which employ decent closed-loop fuel injection with O2 sensing. We tested high-altitude carburetted engines here in Colorado and found that while the CO was usually reduced somewhat, the HC tuypicaly increased, and when the lower MPG was factored in we found about a 15% net increase in HC emissions in ppm, which contributes to the photochemical smog that Denver is known for. But the Feds were after Colorado about CO, and so the program to reduce CO brought about an increase in HC with correspondingly worse "brown cloud." The fire issue is a good one, since many of the fire suppression systems in fuel storage facilities were not rated for the effects of hotter fuels. It tends to overheat air-cooled engines, as well. FWIW Dr Robert Robert Morgan wrote: > > One of the more scandalous side stories to the MTBE saga is the fact > that this crap is very toxic to wildlife (or tamelife) in ground > water....they are already finding it in Lake Tahoe! It also promotes the > rapid deterioration of rubber seals and fuel lines not specially treated for > it. Like older cars and motor cycles. The fire hazard ( which has been > faulted in numerous car fires in CA.) was omitted .......etc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:46:07 EDT From: WKPII@aol.com Subject: (klr650) Is Ed Tam out there? Ed, Your friend Dave Funk says hello. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 07:03:09 -0400 From: Todd Emsley Subject: Re: (klr650) Tank Panniers. I feel the hot air off of the radiator on my left inner calf as well. I don't even have panniers. I don't think that vent does much if anything. Todd (just into 5 digits on A11) ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V1 #221 ****************************