From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V1 #299 Reply-To: klr650@lists.xmission.com Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Tuesday, October 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 299 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:34:40 -0700 From: "Rob Clement" Subject: Re: (klr650) Valve clearance checking. I check them when I change oil, and they're still good at almost 4k miles. Rob C. - -----Original Message----- From: Alan Henderson To: klr650@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 4:18 PM Subject: (klr650) Valve clearance checking. >I checked with my dealer at 500 miles and was told that I didn't really >need to check the valves. I asked two different times just to make sure. >The mechanic agreed. I did all the other checking myself. The bike is now >at 800 miles and I will check the valves myself pretty soon. In everyones >experience is this correct or should they be checked at 500? Yes I know >what the manual says but I am asking for personal experience along the >lines of, when you first checked your valves did they need adjustment or >were they still within tolerance? > Alan Henderson > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:43:43 -0700 From: "Rob Clement" Subject: Re: (klr650) oil level ...Comment, NKLR Eric, I like your points. Good Riding! Rob C. - -----Original Message----- From: Eric Rhoads To: KLR List Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 9:39 PM Subject: Re: (klr650) oil level ...Comment, NKLR > >-->but rather having the moving parts beat the oil into a foam. Foamy oil >>doesn't work very well in this type of system. > >>>>>>>> this is definitely the case....foamed-up oil doesn't pump worth a >darn. However, the modern anti-foam agents are much superior than in years >past, and although I can't give any good specs, I personally don't worry >much about this....but then, I rarely overfill. > >Aren't we all missing the >>point? The most important thing is to not let the oil level fall below the >>min. line, as long as it is in between the lines you are all right. >> Alan Henderson > > >>>>>>>>>>>>. Yeah, you're alright as long as the pump isn't sucking >air....but I think the main issue with going for a maximum oil charge is to >keep the relative level of contaminates low. If you increase the sump >capacity for a given engine you decrease relative levels of contaminates, >help the oil maintain viscosity rating and possibly aid engine cooling. > >eric > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:42:35 -0700 From: Tony Subject: (klr650) Crash Hey james, sorry to hear about your accident. I carry a gun so that I can shoot people like that. heehheee!: ) Im gald that it turned out ok for you! Re, your bike; you can straighted your forks with a heavy duty press. It will take a long staright edge for measuring some blocks of wood and about 4 hours. Take your time and you can do it, if you can find access to a press. I once crashed my IT400 into a tree, the insurance wouldnt pay since the bike shop told them I could straighten them, so I did with good results. Tony ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:54:51 -0400 From: Todd Emsley Subject: Re: (klr650) Oil Again...Eldon Carl is right... What extra guts? I've heard the clutch springs are stronger, possibly a little larger basket. How much oil can that displace. We need somebody with the cases split to get a sight as to the clearance below the crankshaft. But, even then, what is the oil level with the top end pressurized, as it is while running. Seem that nobody is having a problem, either from oil starvation or foaming from crankshaft whipping. Todd A11 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:48:56 From: "R. Kaub" Subject: (klr650) 35 PSI There is a sticker on the inside of my left fork (A12) that is hard to see and read. It says that the maximum pressure you can ADD the front forks is 35 PSI. Thanks. Bob Kaub State University of New York PO Box 6000 Binghamton, NY 13902 607-777-2715 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:53:24 From: "R. Kaub" Subject: (klr650) OIL KLR engines/gearboxes are not especially high tech devices. I think that they would perform satisfactorily for a very long time with anywhere between 2 and 3 quarts of oil just about any oil in them. So....... Put in 2.6 liters of good old Pennzoil 10w40 (or whatever) check that you can see oil in the sightglass and go for a ride. The bike is here to serve us; not us to serve them. Thanks. Bob Kaub State University of New York PO Box 6000 Binghamton, NY 13902 607-777-2715 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:09:14 PDT From: "Juan Villarreal" Subject: (klr650) Valves Ron/listers, I've read a great deal about valve checks in the KLR list lately and I have to admit that I have no idea about the status of the ones in my bike. In a perfect world the dealer checks them as part of the 500 mile service, but that isn't always the case. I looked at the receipt for my 500 mile check-up but it doesn't contain any specifics regarding the actual maintenance performed. Could you talk to Bob and see if it's a part of their service profile? I currently have about 6,400 miles on my bike and it still runs like a top. Some other questions: - - Do you need to actually measure valve clearances to detect a problem? Or does the bike provide other clues? I'm just wanting to know if it's important enough to justify a trip to the dealer along with the hassle of a pathetic request in Spanish (my Spanish has reached a plateau and I'm frustrated). - - What kind of grace period (if any) do you get with a bad valve? Or is it one of those catastrophic failures that happens with no advance warning? On another note... About once every 10 times my bike shows no signs of life when the starter button is pressed. The lights come on, but nothing else happens. After waiting for 30 seconds or so it always fires right back up. I'm thinking my sidestand cut-off switch (which is still connected) may be the culprit, but in case it isn't, what else could it be? Awaiting on you all.... Juan Villarreal, '97 KLR "El Lobo Solo" P.S. I'm not wanting to cause any problems here, but for what it's worth I'd like to say that I always put in about 5 quarts of oil mixed with half a quart of paint thinner (keeps the innards nice 'n clean). Just my two cents (or lack thereof)... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:31:08 -0600 From: "Kurt Simpson" Subject: Re: (klr650) Valve clearance checking. >I had 3 valves that needed adjusted at 500 miles on my 98. And I baby it. >Jim. >----------------------------------------------- >> jsprecker@uswest.net < >----------------------------------------------- From Fred's posts I gather that is part of the problem for those of us who do baby them...more likely to have tight valves...I did the same with mine.... Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:30:47 +1000 From: Ted Palmer Subject: Re: (klr650) A few More '86 KLR600 Questions Wayne wrote: [...] > 1. Does the '86 have the 11l gas tank? If so is there a larger aftermarket > available? AFAIK, all the 600s had the small tank. I think Acerbis had an accessory tank, but not in all the colours the 600 had. I think green and white were the only choices, which coincide with the the original 600-A1 colours. Things may be different now. Acerbis also had handguards, which I can't recommend for road use (lousy aerodynamics IMO). > 2. Does it come with a windshield and if not is there a aftermarket one > available? No luxuries like a screen. I've considered accessory screens in the past, but never got around to it, and I have a Honda sports/tourer for distance work now anyway. > 3. How does the 600 compare to the 650? The 600 is actually 564cc, so the capacity jump to the actual 650 size is closer to 100cc than 50cc. Comparing stock bikes, the 650 doesn't gain as much in top end due to more strangled muffler catering for later noise laws, but the 650 has better torque, particularly at part-throttle where the muffler makes less difference. As such, modifying a 650 may give a more than proportional increase over a modified 600. The 600 is no slouch, but extra cubes can make a difference when the bike is loaded. OTOH, the ally rear subframe would be a bit lighter than the 650 steel jobby, and small tank and other parts contribute to a slightly lower overall weight. AFAIK, the 600s didn't have a locking fuel cap at all, so in town use you could see this as a liabiltiy. Plastic accessory tanks like the Acerbis wouldn't have locks either, FWIW. The 600 had the Unitrack links retained by circlips as opposed to later series that used nut/bolts. Not sure if they are interchangable, but it would be nice if they are. The 600s had a drum rear instead of the 650 disc. Either brake will fade, but the drum has some advantage offroad due to better clearance and resistance to rock damage. As the 600s all had a kickstarter, this could be useful to you. > 4. Would the KLR650 be a better bike for what I want to use it for? The guy > is asking $850 for the '86 and I might be able to get it at a lower price > which would allow me to do the windshield/tank upgrades if they are > available. Cash waved under a nose is the best aroma therapy there is. If you are going to keep the 600 relatively stock, then depending on the price it could well be a bargain. Even if it won't do everything for you, it could still be a handy commuter to take short trip duties away from your Voyager. Bearing in mind the 600 is bit of an orphan now, keep this in mind when haggling the price. As for getting factory parts, it shouldn't be that much worse than getting bits for any '86 Kwak (ie "we'll have to order it in"). The 650s are much more common over in the US, so there exists a much greater array of aftermarket accessories, if those are what you need to suit your uses. Mister_T - -- \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\ | RC17 KLR600 Roces BCN FreeBSD 2.2.5-R NT4W (ugh) | | tedp[at]replicant[dot]apana[dot]org[dot]au | \|_________________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:47:43 -0500 From: "Royer, Timothy E." Subject: (klr650) Valve shims Hey list I had to write after hearing about Bogdan's frustration about valve shim replacement. I just finished replacing all of my shims after only 5K on my A12, and I have a few questions / observations. 1. Why did Eldon Carl emphasize to remove the cam chain tensioner BEFORE removing the valve cover and not replacing it until the AFTER the valve cover is replaced?? I removed the tensioner before I removed the valve cover, and when I went to rotate the crank the cam chain was so loose it jumped a tooth on the intake cam. I reset the cams and checked and replaced all 4 shims. I broke off one of the cam cap bolts on the way back on ( because of stupidity) but, thank the Lord, it came out and was replaced. Because of the tooth jumping I replaced the tensioner before I replaced the valve cover so I could check the valve clearance after a couple of hand rotations of the crank. I could not see the mechanical relation between the tensioner and the valve cover. If I am missing something, someone please clue me in. 2. I would like to slap the Kawasaki engineer who placed that upper cam chain slipper mounting bolt under the oil tube between the two left side cam caps. I must have been the same contortionist who made it so you would have to remove half of the electrical and cooling system before you can remove the valve cover, and the one who made it impossible to get a straight torque wrench on either the cam cap bolts or the valve cover bolts. I hope he has to replace valve shims in middle of the night in the middle of nowhere with only the stock Kawasaki tool kit to do it with.... 3. On a positive note, while working on the valve shims, I had the opportunity to take off both cooling cowls and use camper tape and lock tight to rid myself of an annoying rattle that resonates between 3k and 4k rpm's. I will check the head light strap tonight. Thanks for letting me vent Tim Royer (98 KLR Kaw-Thump, The back road bomber) PS On the electrical test, I'm trying to get a good base line charging voltage, because the voltage gage I'm using is not giving me constant readings it varies with time and temp by .5 to .7 V. I'm working on mounting a normal multimeter on my handlebars. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:20:53 -0600 From: "Josh Sammons" Subject: (klr650) NKLR: New 4-Stroke Mag is out In case anyone was wondering the new edition of 4-Stroke Dirt Bike magazine is out. There is an article on the famous debate over automobile oils vs. specific motorcycle blends. May be we can finally get it settled. Well, may be. Later Josh '92KLR650 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:57:37 From: "R. Kaub" Subject: (klr650) Rider Magazine I bought the October issue for the KLR article. I wasted three bucks. Thanks. Bob Kaub State University of New York PO Box 6000 Binghamton, NY 13902 607-777-2715 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:54:03 -0500 From: John Tranter Subject: (klr650) Info Request There were many responses to my request for lowering link info. Thanks to all who answered. This is such a great group it makes me think twice about selling the bike. BTW, just got back from a weekend at TWO in Suchess, GA. There are some great National Forest roads in the area if you ever get the chance. - -- John Tranter '98 KLR 650 '93 Concours Montgomery, AL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:26:39 -0500 From: John Tranter Subject: (klr650) Lowering link Guys, I just got an email from j alexopopulos asking the same question I asked last week about the lowering link. I'm on digest mode so I can't see what's happening now, but if he posted the same question to the list, I just wanted all to know I combined all the responses I had received and forwarded to him. Good riding, - -- John Tranter '98 KLR 650 '93 Concours Montgomery, AL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:56:12 -0600 From: Bogdan Swider Subject: (klr650) To: "'klr650@lists.xmission.com'" Dear Listers, Anyone (Fred Hink, Gino, Kurt, Mr. T etc etc) have any experience in inserting heli-coils in the valve cover bolt holes? I'm wondering if it's possible on the left (cam chain) side without removing the engine. Any thoughts on broken bolt removal (front left)? Tim, not removing the tension bolt before I rotated the crank was one thing I did right (Gino's advice). What's this one going to cost me? Bogdan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:11:16 EDT From: Rcklr@aol.com Subject: Fwd: (klr650) Valves This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_908302276_boundary Content-ID: <0_908302276@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 10/13/98 8:10:47 AM EST, villarrealjuan@hotmail.com writes: << On another note... About once every 10 times my bike shows no signs of life when the starter button is pressed. The lights come on, but nothing else happens. After waiting for 30 seconds or so it always fires right back up. I'm thinking my sidestand cut-off switch (which is still connected) may be the culprit, but in case it isn't, what else could it be? Awaiting on you all.... Juan Villarreal, '97 KLR "El Lobo Solo" >> My '93 does this sometimes. I think it's in the emergency on-off switch next to the starter button. I wiggle it a few times and things are then OK. If I use that switch to shut 'er down, then it will always need to be wiggled to make the starter button engage. Never been enough of a problem to dig deeper as it's done it since day one and never gotten worse. Kawasaki does not have the best swtich gear in the idustry. (is that an understatement, or what?) MN Ron - --part0_908302276_boundary Content-ID: <0_908302276@inet_out.mail.hotmail.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v50.18) with SMTP; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:10:47 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA13468; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zT4Cz-0007DB-00 for klr650-goout@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:09:49 -0600 Received: from [207.82.251.157] (helo=hotmail.com) by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zT4Cx-0007Bp-00 for KLR650@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:09:47 -0600 Received: (qmail 22857 invoked by uid 0); 13 Oct 1998 13:09:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19981013130916.22856.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 132.59.120.11 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:09:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [132.59.120.11] From: "Juan Villarreal" To: rhampe@csi.com Cc: KLR650@lists.xmission.com Subject: (klr650) Valves Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:09:14 PDT Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Juan Villarreal" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ron/listers, I've read a great deal about valve checks in the KLR list lately and I have to admit that I have no idea about the status of the ones in my bike. In a perfect world the dealer checks them as part of the 500 mile service, but that isn't always the case. I looked at the receipt for my 500 mile check-up but it doesn't contain any specifics regarding the actual maintenance performed. Could you talk to Bob and see if it's a part of their service profile? I currently have about 6,400 miles on my bike and it still runs like a top. Some other questions: - - Do you need to actually measure valve clearances to detect a problem? Or does the bike provide other clues? I'm just wanting to know if it's important enough to justify a trip to the dealer along with the hassle of a pathetic request in Spanish (my Spanish has reached a plateau and I'm frustrated). - - What kind of grace period (if any) do you get with a bad valve? Or is it one of those catastrophic failures that happens with no advance warning? On another note... About once every 10 times my bike shows no signs of life when the starter button is pressed. The lights come on, but nothing else happens. After waiting for 30 seconds or so it always fires right back up. I'm thinking my sidestand cut-off switch (which is still connected) may be the culprit, but in case it isn't, what else could it be? Awaiting on you all.... Juan Villarreal, '97 KLR "El Lobo Solo" P.S. I'm not wanting to cause any problems here, but for what it's worth I'd like to say that I always put in about 5 quarts of oil mixed with half a quart of paint thinner (keeps the innards nice 'n clean). Just my two cents (or lack thereof)... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --part0_908302276_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V1 #299 ****************************