From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V1 #301 Reply-To: klr650@lists.xmission.com Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Wednesday, October 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 301 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:59:17 -0600 From: "Fred Hink" Subject: Re: (klr650) Dirty oil sight window difficult to view and helicoils - -----Original Message----- From: Conall O'Brien To: klr650@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 7:14 PM Subject: (klr650) Dirty oil sight window difficult to view and helicoils >Can you helicoil the >oil drain bolt? Yes, most certainly. That is one of the more common thread replacements that I do. You have to be careful of what is just above the drain hole. Sometimes you will find gears or other castings that may interfere with the threads. Make sure that you get the correct thread pitch though. The KLR uses a 12X1.5 thread for the drain bolt. Make sure that you use a sealing washer and that the sealing washer is either aluminum or copper. >Would a helicoil in the oil drain hole stand up to frequent oil changes? The helicoil is made from stainless steel and is much stronger than the alloy that the original threads were made from. I have never had a helicoil come out once they were installed correctly. Fred Hink ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Arrowhead Motorsports http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/khink/moabmc/index.html 435-259-7356 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Conall --DIGEST subscriber KLR 650 A4 54k mi. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:11:44 -0700 From: "Robert Morgan" Subject: Re: (klr650) Panic stop, Crash Report James Glad to here you're not seriously hurt. Several of the last few accidents I've heard about in the last year have resulted in no serious injuries. This is a far cry from the long, grizzly list of horror stories I've heard in years past. I really hope this is a result of increased awareness of riding technique and proper safety equipment, that would indicate there's hope for the future. I really hate feeling like a victim. I recently invested a considerable sum of money in Aerostitch riding apparel. Its not very cold here at the beach in San Diego and I feel silly putting on heavy riding boots, armored pants and jacket to ride down the coast a stretch. HOWEVER, I decided I would feel even sillier if I crashed with a thousand dollars worth of gear hanging in the closet instead of covering my ass! So I grin and bear it and leave the house looking like Bibendum. Anyway glad you are ok. I think Mssrs. Gendreau, O'Brien, and King have given you sound advice. Mine would be to contact an attorney. Post haste. Regardless of weather or not you intend to persue litigation. If you cannot afford one or don't have a buddy then check with the DA's office and see what legal advice you are entitled to for free as a citizen. Sounds like the guy that hit you is a loser, perhaps career caliber. I think I would start moving for position here and get this guy served with paper before he skips. Get advice. Good luck, Morgan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:22:10 -0700 From: "Rob Clement" Subject: Re: (klr650) Valve shims Tim, thanks for your comments. I'm about to adjust my valves, I think, and they will help. I've slid a feeler gauge under each cam lobe, each time I've changed oil, and I've not had to use any shims yet. But my exhausts were on the tight side last time, so in a couple of k miles they'll no doubt need adjusting, since the trend is toward reduced clearances. (I wouldn't mind looser clearances as much, since burned valves and valve seats with loss of compression are the greater danger; a little noise probably wouldn't be harmful.) The reason I'm responding to your note, besides to thank you, is to ask: Were your valves getting tight, as most guys seem to find, or were they getting loose? You see, I have this fantasy that maybe my valves will stay in the middle somewhere, and I'll not have to bother with all the aggravations you described. To that end, I'm experimenting with some "lubrication" for the valves and seats where they contact each other. My method is I add a couple of ounces of motor oil to each tankful (usually 4.5 to 5 gallons). My thinking is as follows: 1) I can take the slight "leaning" of the mixture that the very small viscosity increase the oil added to the gasoline produces, since my pipe runs fairly blackish already. (I upped the main jet from 148 to 156 when I put the Cobra muffler and the K&N filter on). 2) Some of the wear and mechanical stresss that cause decreasing valve lash are due to the high-temperature and high-rpm impact of the valve on the seat, "driving" the seat a little bit into the head (a popular wisdom). But some of the decrease may be due to the slight sliding contact of the valve when it contacts the seat, due to slight rotational or off-center motion and abrasion of the seat surfaces, one against the other, as the engine runs. When tetraethyl lead was in gas, the lead oxide formed a light powder (brownish to reddish or sometimes tan), which (according to a Shell engineer I contacted) was useful in preventing A) burned valves, since the powder acted as a sealant, as well as a cushion and lubricant (so any "low" spots on the sealing surfaces didn't enlarge; as soon as they developed, they were sealed with powder until the "high" spots wore enough to create a mechanically perfect seal again), and B) loss of valve clearance or lash due to excessive wear. He said that when lead was removed, a few years back, pre-'73 engines had valves that were of lesser hardness, and the non-lead fuel additives were for octane increases, and also for valve seat lubrication and sealing, for these older engines. I think he said there were some potassium compounds that were used, or maybe it was phosphorous, in these fuel additives. So my hope is that I can reduce the seat abrasion factor to near zero, and let the cam lobe:bucket:shim:valve stem and cam bearing:cam journal catch up, and create a state of clearance equilibrium. In this glorious, hoped-for state, I will never have to adjust my KLR650 valves! To be honest, I also hope to win the lottery, and to live to be at least 90. This KLR hope is testable now (unlike the others), and I'll post my valve clearance results a couple of thousand miles from now. Now I have about 3800 miles on my "Big Boomer." Happy Riding, Rob C. - -----Original Message----- From: Royer, Timothy E. To: KRLlist Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 6:48 AM Subject: (klr650) Valve shims >Hey list > I had to write after hearing about Bogdan's frustration about valve >shim replacement. I just finished replacing all of my shims after only 5K on >my A12, and I have a few questions / observations. > >1. Why did Eldon Carl emphasize to remove the cam chain tensioner >BEFORE removing the valve cover and not replacing it until the AFTER the >valve cover is replaced?? > I removed the tensioner before I removed the valve cover, and when I >went to rotate the > crank the cam chain was so loose it jumped a tooth on the intake cam. >I reset the cams and > checked and replaced all 4 shims. >I broke off one of the cam cap bolts on the way back on ( because of >stupidity) but, thank the >Lord, it came out and was replaced. > Because of the tooth jumping I replaced the tensioner before I >replaced the valve cover > so I could check the valve clearance after a couple of hand rotations >of the crank. I could not > see the mechanical relation between the tensioner and the valve >cover. If I am missing > something, someone please clue me in. > >2. I would like to slap the Kawasaki engineer who placed that upper >cam chain slipper > mounting bolt under the oil tube between the two left side cam caps. >I must have been the > same contortionist who made it so you would have to remove half of >the electrical and > cooling system before you can remove the valve cover, and the one >who made it > impossible to get a straight torque wrench on either the cam cap >bolts or the valve cover > bolts. I hope he has to replace valve shims in middle of the night in >the middle of nowhere > with only the stock Kawasaki tool kit to do it with.... > >3. On a positive note, while working on the valve shims, I had the >opportunity to take off both cooling cowls and use camper tape and lock >tight to rid myself of an annoying rattle that resonates between 3k and 4k >rpm's. I will check the head light strap tonight. > >Thanks for letting me vent > >Tim Royer (98 KLR Kaw-Thump, The back road bomber) > >PS On the electrical test, I'm trying to get a good base line charging >voltage, because the voltage gage I'm using is not giving me constant >readings it varies with time and temp by >.5 to .7 V. I'm working on mounting a normal multimeter on my handlebars. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:01:32 -0700 From: "Rob Clement" Subject: Re: (klr650) Oil level sense Scott, It is up over the top line, when I use three quarts, after I run it for a couple of minutes to fill the filter, and then let it drain back down thoroughly. I expected that, since I am "overfilling" by about 1/3 quart. PS: Did you see the note from the guy who always uses five quarts and a half-quart of paint thinner, to keep the innards clean? A bit of humor is nice, sometimes! Take care, Rob C. - -----Original Message----- From: Sconzo To: klr650@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 3:56 PM Subject: Re: (klr650) Oil level sense > > >Rob Clement wrote: > >> Ztib, you're certainly more "correct," and probably a little safer, doing it >> your (and Kawasaki's) way, and more power to you. But for the reasons I >> mentioned, I will continue to put in the three quarts, instead of the 2.64 >> quarts that 2.5 liters works out to be......... > >Rob, I'm curious if you can see the oil level in the sight glass when you add >the full three quarts or is it completely above the "high line" on the glass? > >Also does anyone have any idea how much oil you can actually put in these things >before you start to see aeration? Maybe we need to all chip in and buy a torture >test KLR so we can find out some of these extreme answers. :) > >Scott in Orlando -- A12 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:22:13 -0700 From: "Rob Clement" Subject: Re: (klr650) '86 KLR600 Questions Thanks, I appreciate the note. "Adventure touring" is a good term for what I enjoy most on my KLR650. "Comfort touring" is more like what I intend to do on my V-12. By the way, I'm hoping to find a taller windshield for my Voyager. Have you run across any? Thanks. Rob C. - -----Original Message----- From: Wayne To: Rob Clement Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 10:01 PM Subject: Re: (klr650) '86 KLR600 Questions > >>>I have the chance to buy a '86 KLR-600 (asking price of $850). >>> >>>Wayne Favre >>>Seattle, WA >>>'86 Voyager XII > > >>I'm interested in your choice of bikes. I have a Voyager XII ('98) and a >>KLR650A12 ('98), and I really enjoy their differences and how each does a >>different job well. >> >>Good luck! Rob C. > >Rob, > >Well the bike turned out to be a very used '85. Turn signals and brake >light didn't work, general neglect of sitting for more than a year (cables >dry, probably carb a little gummed up and so on), doesn't appear to have >been layed down but it's seen it's shard of off road use. Exhaust is rusty, >no water leaks that I could see. Kinda noisy oin start up, prettly loud >knocking that went away as it warmed up. > >So I'd be looking at a carb overhaul, valve adjustment, electrical work >(tail lights need replacing), coolant flush/replacement, brake fluid and >fork oil replacement and a lot of elbow work on general clean up. > >Offer him $250, figued what the heck it'd be a winter project if the >engine's ok, gonna check with my local Kawasaki mech on what it should >sould like. > >Got a heck of a deal 3 years ago on the Voyager ($2600) was actually >looking for a Kawasaki Concourse but this was too good a deal to pass up. >Wanting the KLR for a little "adventure touring" when the wife's no along >and for some commuting to work. > >Tailwinds and Good Coffee, > >Wayne Favre >Seattle, WA >'86 Voyager XII > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:38:48 -0700 (MST) From: Jeffrey P Moorbeck Subject: Re: (klr650) Valve shims On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Rob Clement wrote: > You see, I have this fantasy that maybe my valves will stay in the middle > somewhere, and I'll not have to bother with all the aggravations you > described. To that end, I'm experimenting with some "lubrication" for the > valves and seats where they contact each other. My method is I add a couple > of ounces of motor oil to each tankful (usually 4.5 to 5 gallons). You're kidding, right!? If I understand this you're adding oil to your gasoline? IMHO I would think this would be extremely harmful to the long term health of your engine. Valves and valve seats wear, period. My understanding is you can do more to maintain the life of an engine with regular oil and filter changes and letting motor warm up some before taking off. Also, don't rev hard until engine is at operating temp. I'd like to hear what kind of mileage you're getting. Also, I'd be concerned about extreme carbon build up in the combustion chamber. Jeff Moorbeck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:42:08 -0600 From: Ian Ellison Subject: (klr650) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:42:36 +0100 Juan said: On another note... About once every 10 times my bike shows no signs of life when the starter button is pressed. The lights come on, but nothing else happens. After waiting for 30 seconds or so it always fires right back up. I'm thinking my sidestand cut-off switch (which is still connected) may be the culprit, but in case it isn't, what else could it be? That's what it was for me. Could be the killswitch or the starter button but every single sidestand switch I have seen has failed on these bikes (OK, all three of them!). The other thing to check for is a bad earth on the starter motor. I melted part of the wiring loom under the tank because the earth on the starter was bad, so the juice found a different route back to the battery. I have put an extra earth strap in to be safe. Hope that helps, Ian Ellison Enfield India Motorcycle Challenge Don't be left out - sponsor me NOW! http://www.poptastic.com/iane/ for more info ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:30:04 -0400 From: Todd Emsley Subject: Re: (klr650) Valve shims Jeff wrote: Valves and valve seats wear, period. My understanding is you can do more to maintain the life of an engine with regular oil and filter changes and letting motor warm up some before taking off. Also, don't rev hard until engine is at operating temp. I'd like to hear what kind of mileage you're getting. Also, I'd be concerned about extreme carbon build up in the combustion chamber. That was my feeling. When you tear down this motor in the future, I feel that the inside will look like a coal mine. I don't know about valve wear. How about using a lead additive like "reallead" or something to replace the lead rather than fouling the whole motor. Then again, I heard that they said the world was flat, so what do I know. Keep us informed of any success or failure. If we all chip in a $20, we can buy a '99 and run pre-mix and 5 quarts of oil and get out our clipboards and lab coats. Todd A11 always wondering ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:25:22 -0400 From: "Robert frey" Subject: Re: (klr650) haven't gotten a message from the list in hours and hours wacka wacka wacka... R - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Morgan To: NILSTIAR@aol.com ; klr650@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 11:48 PM Subject: Re: (klr650) haven't gotten a message from the list in hours and hours >neener neener neener > > > ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V1 #301 ****************************