From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #1035 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Tuesday, October 19 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1035 Re: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy (klr650) Service Horror Re: (klr650) rear end bottomming Re: (klr650) Lights off/Lights on Re: (klr650) Exhaust mod update Re: (klr650) Cam chain RE: (klr650) Service Horror Re: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy Re: (klr650) rear end bottomming Re: (klr650) 6000 mi service horror RE: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy Re: (klr650) NKLR Street Helmet RE: (klr650) Exhaust mod update Re: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy Re: (klr650) Service Horror ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:40:57 -0700 From: "Arne Larsen" Subject: Re: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy From: Kurt Simpson To: Arne Larsen ; KLR Dudes and Dudettes Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 9:01 PM Subject: Re: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy > > nookie@telus.net. > > nookie? (g)...at least ajax was a Greek General...what was nookie? > > Kurt > And here all along I thought you were into soap... =^) "I did it all for the nookie..." Limp Bizkit. Cheers, Arne KLR650 Listmeister Eh 13 www.mac-d.com MAC-D Homepage Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 04:59:25 -0700 From: "Debt Doctor" Subject: (klr650) Service Horror I have to put myself out there for the wrath of everyone , Again! Everyone is throwing their two cents worth in about service, lack of it and who's fault it is. You are at fault! I can tell you why you are at fault with a very simple answer. You're Cheap!!!!!! When you bought your bike you bragged how you got the best deal, or that you jacked the dealer down in price so far he could look up his own butt. Sure go ahead, but you will pay, and by the statements being made you are really paying. If all dealers stuck to the no dicker sticker idea they could make a decent living, reinvest sales profit in a decent service department and be businesses that you would be pleased to deal with because they hire Homo Sapiens to work as technicians. Let me give you a short story about my way of handling things. I pay retail for my machines. I always tip the service guy $20, for anything they do. I don't tell the parts guy that I can buy the very same oil at Auto Pro for half the price. If I am having the dealer do some of the service, I pay the $65 per hour and don't ask if can I get a discount because I bought my bike here. What do I get in return? The service manager has never made me wait for something I need done quickly. The best technician told the service manager, "I want Tom's bike to be given to me if he needs something", I have never had to pay for a valve shim when I have done my own adjustments. Straight exchange, and with a smile. Had a minor warranty service problem that tied my bike up for a part for a week. They did my oil change for free because I had to wait five days when they initially had said two. I have just moved to Ontario for a while and one of my bikes had to be crated and shipped. Dealer crated my bike (which took a morning to do), FREE. He even got me his discount freight rate. Why is all this done. Because I pay the right price for good service, and I want the dealer to make a profit so he can always be there to take care of me. You know what? It works. I probably spend a thousand bucks more in the purchase price and tips, and paying more for service. But I have never had a serious problem at a financially successful motorcycle dealership. (Read Financially Successful). You be the judge. It's same old story. You can pay it now or you can pay it later, but you are going to pay, if you don't allow your dealer a decent profit. Of course if you have the tools, and you have the skills, that is an exception to every one of my points. Tools are cheap. Right? Knowledge costs nothing. Right? Enjoy the ride Tom McKenzie A13 Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:04:43 -0400 From: "R. Kaub" Subject: Re: (klr650) rear end bottomming At 10:16 PM 10/18/99 -0400, you wrote: >I'd like to survey the list to see what sort noise is appropriate when a >KLR650 swingarm bottoms. I'm curious because mine makes a definite, sharp, >single, "crack" noise, and I'm wondering if it can do any damage. Does >anyone know what the limiting factor of the rear suspension is? Is it shock >travel or spring compression? The bottom of the muffler hits the swingarm and bottom seam of the muffler cuts through the plastic retainer for the rear brake line. Fortunately, the cut is on the "safe" side of the screw attaching the plastic retainer and the retainer does not fall off. This can happen when riding two-up with the suspension set to its softest setting. Thanks. Bob Kaub Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:29:15 -0600 From: "Kurt Simpson" Subject: Re: (klr650) Lights off/Lights on > BTW, are we gonna get any more info on the USMC/KLR650 project? Who's > hip to what they're doing to them? We're hoping to make it the feature story of the January/February issue of Dual Sport News. Especially the part about the diesel engine... Kurt Simpson Editor Dual Sport News Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:30:24 -0600 From: "Kurt Simpson" Subject: Re: (klr650) Exhaust mod update > In the words of the Australain Toyota advert, "Bugger". > I was out roadtesting the muffler on Sunday night when the engine > made some internal noises and stopped. At that stage I was > accelerating from a set of lights. good things are worth waiting for...we'll be patient (g)...sorry for your setback... Kurt Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:45:13 +1000 From: Ted Palmer Subject: Re: (klr650) Cam chain juan carlos ibarra wrote: [...] > progressive springs...and now I read this new thread about the urgent need > to change the cam chain!!! (My bike has almost 22k miles on it!) > > AAAARRRGHHHH! How do I go about measuring and if necessary, changing this > chain? The base manual shows a spec of 127.0 to 127.4mm with a service limit of 128.9mm, measuring a 20 link length. The diagram in the manual shows the measurement being the distance between the centre of one link _pin_ and the centre of the _21st_pin_. That's the only way the manual shows. It _would_ be nice if the camchain tensioner had some sort of travel indication (sort of like the rear brake on a 600), so you'd know when the tensioner is at _its_ limit, at which point you'd start to worry. To me, this would be the ideal way to go as the cylinder head and/or block may have been skimmed and reduced the length of the overall chain run. When you run out of tensioner tension, that's when the unfun starts. There _is_ one crude way to test for remaining tensioner travel. Remove the tensioner and allow it to extend all the way. Then push it back into the head by hand and take up all the chain slack you can, DON'T bolt it back in. The distance between the body of the tensioner and the head is about how much travel you have left. Once you've eyed that, you can remove and refit the tensioner in the proper manner ie remove the spring, release the ratchet, compress the tensioner, bolt the tensioner on the head, fit the spring and cap. Changing the camchain isn't all that easy, if you don't have a rotor puller and holder then you'd better get them. The rotor comes out and then the LH side rotor housing comes off. If you do get in there, you might as well do the balancer chain while you're there, so add that expense into the equation. It's not a simple job for most of us but not monumental either. Mister_T Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 7:01:00 -0600 From: "Pokluda, Gino" Subject: RE: (klr650) Service Horror >>You are at fault! I can tell you why you are at fault with a very simple answer. You're Cheap!!!!!!<< I resent that remark. I may be easy, but I'm not cheap! Gino Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:22:16 -0700 From: Tobin Lampson Subject: Re: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy Kurt Simpson wrote: > > > nookie@telus.net. > > nookie? (g)...at least ajax was a Greek General...what was nookie? > > Kurt Good question Kurt. Maybe its supposed to be read 'no okie'? :) :) :)SSSSSLLLLIIIDDDDEEE Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:34:01 -0700 From: Tobin Lampson Subject: Re: (klr650) rear end bottomming Toby Link wrote: > > I'd like to survey the list to see what sort noise is appropriate when a > KLR650 swingarm bottoms. I'm curious because mine makes a definite, sharp, > single, "crack" noise, and I'm wondering if it can do any damage. Does > anyone know what the limiting factor of the rear suspension is? Is it shock > travel or spring compression? > > Toby Link > A12@5051.km TL, It should be the Cartridge part of the shock that hits first, I think!?!?! The rubber stopper would come to rest/or bump the top of the shock. If your getting a loud kwack then it could be 1)The rubber stop is shot on the cartridge 2) The rear tire is hitting the fender or 3) The rear linkage is soo rusted up, when utilizing full travel, it sounds that way. Its sooooo wierd writing to another dude with MY name. I don't think I've ever done it before. Hell we even got same initials. Did you know other folks, when growing up, that had family dogs or cats named TOBY to? Best of Luck............... Toby(Slide) Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:39:57 -0400 From: Mark McCoy Subject: Re: (klr650) 6000 mi service horror r. scott lamorte wrote: > above all, learn from your mistakes. My friend who coaches me on painting says it is just a matter of screwing up and after a while you have made all the mistakes and know how to paint! Mark McCoy Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:42:28 -0600 From: Bogdan Swider Subject: RE: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy Also Nookie, Do you share your address with da wife ?? Is she aware that HER address is now Nookie ?? Bogdan So Nookie, how long did you have to look before someone allowed you to use that name? -neil Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:42:07 -0400 From: Mark McCoy Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR Street Helmet I think they even have a specific one for snowmobile use that has some strips that stand it off of the surface to make it even more fog resistant. Mark Eric Jasniewicz wrote: > Crikey, the heck with that $65 anti-fog solution, just get a Fog City stick > on thing for around $15 I think. I've got one on my Shoei RF800 and it > works perfectly. > > Eric J > www.angelfire.com/ga/ericjazz KLR page > '98 KLR 650 20,000 miles > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net > for info. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:48:48 -0600 From: Bogdan Swider Subject: RE: (klr650) Exhaust mod update ANOTHER camchain slip ??? What is this an international epidemic ? Bogdan . I'm assuming I've slipped the camchain so I'll flip the lid on the head this week and check. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 7:42:00 -0600 From: "Pokluda, Gino" Subject: Re: (klr650) (NKLR) New Addy ---------> > > nookie@telus.net. > > nookie? (g)...at least ajax was a Greek General...what was nookie? > > Kurt Good question Kurt. Maybe its supposed to be read 'no okie'? :) :) :)SSSSSLLLLIIIDDDDEEE-<< There was a DR. No Nookie in the first Leisure Suit Larry computer games. I know he made an appearance in Land of the Lounge Lizards and I think he was also in Pulsating Pectorals. Gino, don't ask me how I know Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:06:27 +1000 From: Ted Palmer Subject: Re: (klr650) Service Horror Debt Doctor wrote: [...] > You're Cheap!!!!!! Not me, but I won't get rich by throwing money away either. > When you bought your bike you bragged how you got the best deal, or that > you jacked the dealer down in price so far he could look up his own butt. No I didn't. I asked the shop owner how much for a KLR600 on the road with my PE175 trade-in. He tried out the PE and told me a price. I thought about it for 10 seconds and asked where I could sign. It _was_ the best offer I got. He didn't fart around and neither did I. > Sure go ahead, but you will pay, and by the statements being made you are > really paying. If all dealers stuck to the no dicker sticker idea they > could make a decent living, reinvest sales profit in a decent service > department and be businesses that you would be pleased to deal with because > they hire Homo Sapiens to work as technicians. This assumes buyers take their bike back to the selling dealer for service. I did this early in my bike's life when I lived in the same city, even though it was on the opposite side of Sydney as was about an hour by train to get there. Their service was always good and I paid for it. After I had moved to Melbourne and got shabby service from a large authorised dealer here, I went on holiday back to Sydney and took my bike back to the selling dealer to get it fixed right. And paid for it, confident that what I wanted was done. Is there some business rule that service departments have to be subsidised by sales? > Let me give you a short story about my way of handling things. I pay retail > for my machines. I always tip the service guy $20, for anything they do. Ah, the concept of tipping. I don't expect any tips when I do my job right, why should he/she/it? > I > don't tell the parts guy that I can buy the very same oil at Auto Pro for > half the price. Neither do I. They already know that. > If I am having the dealer do some of the service, I pay > the $65 per hour and don't ask if can I get a discount because I bought my > bike here. I've never asked for a discount. Most services on my bike have been done by dealers other than the seller. > What do I get in return? [advantages] > rate. Why is all this done. Because I pay the right price for good service, > and I want the dealer to make a profit so he can always be there to take > care of me. If "right price" means slinging cash under the counter, they can go all go to hell. When I've taken a bike in, I haven't rushed them, I've told them they can take their time - I'll pay for it, the bike is given to them clean, they can have my phone number in case they find something serious, and I tell them to do whatever it needs. What more do they want? Hell, I even take the bike in the afternoon before so they can have a cold bike to work on next day. So why do they strip a bolt hole and not fix it, don't put enough coolant in, put in the wrong spark plug, put the wrong spring on the brake shoes so that the shoes are flopping around, or how about double over the tank vent line so that the bike dies out uphill in traffic on a major 8-lane bridge? All these have been done to me by so-called authorised dealers here in Melbourne. Are they getting even with me for not buying my bike at their dealership? And how do they know how much I paid for the bike in the first place? Maybe they think I'm a cheap bastard because I bought a single cylinder trail bike and not the top-of-the-line sportster. [...] > But I have never had a > serious problem at a financially successful motorcycle dealership. (Read > Financially Successful). You be the judge. All the dealers that have caused me problems here are bigger now than they ever were. It seems they can do very nicely without wasting their precious time on my bike. > It's same old story. You can pay it now or you can pay it later, but you are > going to pay, if you don't allow your dealer a decent profit. I haven't quibbled a bill except when they screwed up the job. So let me get this straight, if I don't pay retail, service the bike where I bought it and/or sling some cash under the counter, then I might as well not show my face at the service department? And if I happen to not be one of the favoured, then I'll get incompetent service that subsequently risks my life on the road? They can stick that. > Of course if > you have the tools, and you have the skills, that is an exception to every > one of my points. Tools are cheap. Right? Knowledge costs nothing. Right? Some people just don't have the time or the inclination to do their own service. There are plenty of people who should never be allowed to hold a hand tool. Why shouldn't they get proper service? I don't expect freebies or to get bumped up the queue, I just want a proper job done. It seems I'm expecting too much. Mister_T Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #1035 *****************************