From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #1174 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Wednesday, November 24 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1174 Re: (klr650) Hello: New to list NKLR (klr650) Dinging A1 (klr650) RE: Front end washing out (klr650) What should I Pay? (KLR650) (klr650) Front end washout in sand Re: (klr650) Where do you buy your tires? Re: (klr650) What should I Pay? (KLR650) (klr650) (KLR650 list) Lowering links and tires (klr650) Re: (KLR650 list) Lowering links and tires Re: (klr650) (KLR650 list) Lowering links and tires RE: (klr650) What should I Pay? (KLR650) Re: (klr650) Hello: New to list NKLR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 06:05:19 EST From: LPetty4585@aol.com Subject: Re: (klr650) Hello: New to list NKLR In a message dated 11/24/99 9:26:46 AM !!!First Boot!!!, jlwalk@webbworks.com writes: << but people swear by the off road performance of Pirelli MT21's. >> I just changed from the Pirelli's to a Dunlop K139 front tire, still washes out in sand, the Pirelli was better off and on road. Larry Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:28:44 -0600 From: "Michael Campbell (EUS)" Subject: (klr650) Dinging A1 Hi All, Last night I got my A1 back together and fired it up for a test ride. I noticed at the first stop sign I came to, that at idle there was a pretty loud 'ding' noise coming from the engine. I took it back home and with a socket extension to my ear, determined it is coming from the very top left (cam-chain) side of the engine. The noise seems to dissapear as soon as the bike goes above idle. However, I'm wondering if it doesn't just seem that way due to the other increased engine noise. I'm going to pull the cam cover tonight, but wanted to know if there is anything in particular I should be looking for that would cause the sound. I just got the bike a couple weeks ago, so haven't check valve clearances yet. I'll do that tonight. Thanks for any insight, Mike Campbell Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:38:01 -0500 From: dobeman@sprint.ca Subject: (klr650) RE: Front end washing out > > The front end seems to wash out quickly in sand. Is this normal or > > did I mess something up. I think my Honda Blackbird handles sand better. > > Anyway, if I screwed up, please don't flame me. Depending on the situation, I would say this is about right. The KLR is a tank of a machine and the front end will want to do the left-right boogie on ya. The stock tires are terrible in the loose stuff. If you spend any amount of time off road get some good 50/50 tires. I put MT-21's on the front of mine and the difference is night and day, especially in the sand and mud! Also, are you running street air pressure? It's a good idea to air down some in the dirt, say to 15 lbs or so. Are you standing on the pegs and gunning it through the sand? By doing this you are allowing the front end to 'float' over the soft sand rather than digging in and washing out and standing on the pegs lowers your center of gravity, which is a good thing. And last but definitely not least, is experience. You need to get out there and ride and practice to master it. Keep trying, it'll come to you. Good luck! Karl Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:22:24 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Sakmar - Sun Kansas City Subject: (klr650) What should I Pay? (KLR650) Hello: I am new to the list and trying to buy a new A13 or A14 from my local dealers in Kansas City. I cannot get anyone to come down more than $100 from list. I felt that I should expect atleast 5% ($245). What should I expect. Anyone have an idea on how to buy a new bike (KLR650) for less? Thanks Robert Sakmar Overland Park, KS robert.sakmar@central.sun.com Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:11:58 -0700 From: "Verle Nelson" Subject: (klr650) Front end washout in sand - ----- Original Message ----- From: > The front end seems to wash out quickly in sand. Is this normal or > did I mess something up. I think my Honda Blackbird handles sand better. > Anyway, if I screwed up, please don't flame me. > > Stephanie "StAn" > As another reader said, "It sounds normal." I believe you are experiencing a characteristic, more than a problem. Long travel suspension requires long fork tubes which usually causes the lower tubes to extend below the axle. This necessitates leading axle locations which reduce trail more than a manufacturer might otherwise choose. Trail: (in the off-chance someone isn't sure what it is). If you draw an imaginary line from the steering head axis to the floor, following the fork angle (rake), then measure back to the tire contact patch, you have measured trail. On the KLR650 it is supposed to be 112 mm (4.41 in.). Some trail lost to leading axles can be regained in triple clamp design, but in my experience, most motorcycles with leading axle forks have too little trail for sand. (There are probably more customers, or engineers, wanting quick steering than they are customers wanting increased stability in soft sand.) Compounding the problem, a narrow 21 inch tire on a heavy bike like the KLR, although great for carving a path in the firmer stuff, sinks quickly in soft, deep sand. This moves the tire contact patch forward reducing trail even more, or perhaps causing negative trail. This is like trying to push a castor backwards. As the other lister suggested, sometimes getting your weight back and using full throttle will take enough weight off the front wheel to preserve some trail. On the other hand, this can be disastrous if the sand is too deep and soft. We've all done it, but it's a good way to get thrown. It's been said that a real suspension geometry expert will address the issue of rake and trail on KLRs in the next issue of Dual Sport News. It's a fine, useful publication, especially when you do your own mechanical work. http://www.geocities.com/~klrdsn/page2.html Since I haven't thought of any easy way to increase trail, I'm anxiously awaiting this article, but it's unlikely I'll spend any money changing my KLR. It's my guess that an exchange of parts with another model Kawasaki will be required; I may be wrong. No more often than I get in deep sand, I can always just slow down and paddle with my feet. Of course, the younger guys and gals may pass me. Or they may get thrown. Verle Nelson KLR650 A13 Cedaredge, CO USA Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:38:47 -0500 From: Mark McCoy Subject: Re: (klr650) Where do you buy your tires? Mike: Welcome aboard. The part of the rock you live on will be sweet for the KLR. I live in Dayton and and have a friend in New Lexington and have ridden in your area several times, on both the KLR and VFR. I know Karl but never laid eyes on his/your KLR. I am sure you will be happy. As far as the lowering links, it is my understanding that it still has the stock springs in the rear. You might check the pre load and set it on the lowest setting and try it before you get the links. I am also 5'9" and have no trouble. It was intimidating getting on and off but once you are seated, it sags down so that you should be able to reach the ground, especially on the street. Speaking of riding on the street, don't underestimate this thing in the twisties. By virtue of it's light weight it can swoop pretty well. Are you familiar with the CMH-MOTO email list? It would provide for group rides in your part of the state, if that interests you. Mark McCoy Dayton, OH KLR650 VFR FZR400 HawkGT Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:53:55 -0800 From: "billmonahan" Subject: Re: (klr650) What should I Pay? (KLR650) Try the dealer around the end of December, when he is hoping to make one last stab at making some sales numbers for the calendar year....it seemed to work for me a couple of years ago. Also, there should be very few other buyers at that time. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Sakmar - Sun Kansas City To: Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 6:22 AM Subject: (klr650) What should I Pay? (KLR650) > Hello: > I am new to the list and trying to buy a new A13 or A14 from my local dealers in > Kansas City. I cannot get anyone to come down more than $100 from list. I felt > that I should expect atleast 5% ($245). What should I expect. Anyone have an > idea on how to buy a new bike (KLR650) for less? > > Thanks > > Robert Sakmar > Overland Park, KS > robert.sakmar@central.sun.com > > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net > for info. > Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:28:20 -0700 From: "Verle Nelson" Subject: (klr650) (KLR650 list) Lowering links and tires > ----- Original Message ----- > From: C. Michael Williams > ...I wrote Greg Petrich about purchasing his Quality Machine lowering links, > since I'm just 5'9". And, I need new tires. Anybody have any suggestions > as to where I should purchase these > Here's some good information on lowering links: http://www.geocities.com/~klrdsn/page83.html I'm six feet tall but I lowered my KLR. For me, the reduction in height, front and rear, and subsequent reduction in center-of-gravity, improved the handling enough that I kept, and now like, a bike I was previously disappointed in. Worse, the stock height is for looks more than function. It's that Paris to Dakar look, or just an obligatory "off-road motorcycle" look. I hate it when marketing people design my motorcycle. Lowering my KLR two inches, front and rear, lost no suspension travel in the front and less than 1/4 inch in the rear (that's because the exhaust expansion chamber, just ahead of the muffler, cracks the swing arm on rare occasions (some riders, especially heavier riders and hard-chargers, do not report these occasions as rare). It's possible an aftermarket exhaust would restore all of my original rear suspension travel. Neither tire has ever touched a fender. Pick the tire that turns you on. Most choices are subjective with lip-service paid to objective justification. Unless you are looking for a competitive edge, choice is not critical. I believe too many riding failures are blamed on tires and too many riding successes are attributed to tires. On the other hand, only a couple things, which I shan't mention, stir more responses on this list than naming your own pet tire. Verle Nelson KLR650 A13 Cedaredge, CO USA Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:39:08 -0700 From: "Verle Nelson" Subject: (klr650) Re: (KLR650 list) Lowering links and tires > ...that's because the exhaust expansion chamber, > just ahead of the muffler, cracks the swing arm on rare occasions... In my previous posting, change "cracks" to "whacks" or just "touches." I didn't intend to suggest metal failure. Verle Nelson KLR650 A13 Cedaredge, CO USA Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:47:25 -0500 From: Mark Subject: Re: (klr650) (KLR650 list) Lowering links and tires At 9:28 AM -0700 11/24/99, Verle Nelson wrote: >the stock height is for looks more than function. >It's that Paris to Dakar look, or just an obligatory "off-road motorcycle" >look. I hate it when marketing people design my motorcycle. Lowering my KLR >two inches, front and rear, lost no suspension travel in the front and less >than 1/4 inch in the rear But it made you 2" closer to the ground and the frame bending, bash plate denting, case splitting rocks and logs that rest on the ground. Mark (doesn't like to hit rock bottom) B2 A2 Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:56:55 -0800 From: "Drew" Subject: RE: (klr650) What should I Pay? (KLR650) Robert, I purchased my '95 KLR for about 10% under MSRP (about $4400 back then). I have read (Consumer Reports) that the list on autos is about 15 - 20% over cost to the dealership. When I bought my KLR, I assumed the same. Here is something that many people are unaware of: "destination" charges (at least in California) are reimbursed by the manufacturer; another place that a dealer makes money. I told the salesperson (owner) that I wasn't going to pay destination. And then I told him why. "How the hell did you find that out?" was his response. I shopped within about a 500 mile radius. Some dealers refused to deal with me over the phone; they lost the sale IMMEDIATELY. I asked my local dealer what he "could do for me" on a new KLR. He replied that I "shouldn't expect to get a deal" from them. This was right after he had explained that his new home is very elaborate and nice -- another dealer out of the running. The competition between dealers helped -- without any doubt. I bought the bike from a dealer 150 miles away. I have been very happy with my KLR and the dealer from where I purchased the bike. I recommend the dealership to people with whom I come in contact. Drew VF500F - -----Original Message----- Hello: I am new to the list and trying to buy a new A13 or A14 from my local dealers in Kansas City. I cannot get anyone to come down more than $100 from list. I felt that I should expect atleast 5% ($245). What should I expect. Anyone have an idea on how to buy a new bike (KLR650) for less? Thanks Robert Sakmar Overland Park, KS robert.sakmar@central.sun.com Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:31:39 -0800 From: "Chuck MacKarness" Subject: Re: (klr650) Hello: New to list NKLR I generally ride two-up (+/- 300 lbs. total) and I did install the progressive springs, but did NOT cut any of the stock spacer off and I am still with the stock fork oil. I love the handling and lack of brake dive, solo or two-up. I have not been in sand yet, but loose gravel was no problem. ************************************************* Rev. Chuck :^)>+ '99 KLR650 Thousands of smiles and barely broke in... HTTP://www.50megs.com/klr650 ************************************************* - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff & Lisa Walker To: ; Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 1:19 AM Subject: Re: (klr650) Hello: New to list NKLR > > I do have some questions. My 94 KLR650 was a neglected bike when I bought > > it. I have replaced the forks springs and oil, adjusted the valves and > > balancer chain adjuster. Replaced the oil, coolant and repacked the swing > > arm bearings. All of the work I did myself, but I wonder if I did > > something > > wrong. The front end seems to wash out quickly in sand.... > Did you replace the front fork springs with Progressive springs, or stock > springs? The stock springs are notoriously week. If you did put in the > Progressives, how long is your spacer? Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #1174 *****************************