From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #1185 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Monday, November 29 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1185 Re: (klr650) RE: Front end washing out Re: (klr650) Gripster Impression - NKLR Re: (klr650) Hepco Becker/Touratech/Pelican luggage setup for sale NKLR (klr650) NKLR CoG RE: (klr650) Gripster Impression - NKLR RE: (klr650) Big Gun review (cont) RE: (klr650) Hepco Becker/Touratech/Pelican luggage setup for sal e RE: (klr650) Tire balancing nklr Re[2]: (klr650) Tire balancing nklr (klr650) Hello from a Newbie! (klr650) Washing the front NKLR Re: (klr650) Hepco Becker/Touratech/Pelican luggage setup for sale NKLR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 03:48:07 -0800 From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" Subject: Re: (klr650) RE: Front end washing out > No no Jeff, standing on the pegs lowers your center of gravity. When > you are sitting, your weight is concentrated on your seat. Likewise, when > you are standing, your weight is on the pegs, and more of the weight is > concentrated lower. See? In the sand, you do not want weight on your > front. I've been told (and I've tried it) that if you don't want to stand > while going thru sand, get your weight back as far as you can to keep the > front as light as possible. And above all else, keep the throttle on. > > Karl > Right, I think I see where everyone's confusion is. Let's all get our definitions straight. Center of mass and center of gravity are one and the same, see. Center of mass is a physical property, and it is determined by the shape and density distribution of the object in question. The motorcycle has a center of mass. This is a physical property that doesn't change, for the most part (ignoring sloshing gas and other fluids, or shifting loads tied to the bike.) The human body also has a center of mass, and this also doesn't change. Bike plus rider equals a system, and this new system now has its own unique center of mass. Forces between the components of the system are ignored, we only care about the system. The bike doesn't ride itself after all. So here we have a seated rider, and this system has a center of mass, and the total mass is of the rider and the bike. Then the rider shifts his center of mass forward and upward by standing up on the pegs. This results in the center of mass for the system shifting upward and forward. The systems mass is constant, but the shape has changed. What everyone here is talking about is static load application. Yes, a static load is now concentrated lower on the motorcycle. In effect, the load that the motorcycle is carrying is now more centered between the wheels, and applied lower. This affects the suspension of the motorcycle, and the balance, but this if for the motorcycle only, not for the system. Motorcycles don't ride themselves, and the mass of the rider and where it is located affects the system considerably. Different scenario: We are riding a bicycle (a system where our bodies mass plays an even more important role). We wish to stop our bicycle in the quickest manor humanly possible. Almost all of us will raise our mass off the seat (where the static load is now only on the pedals), and move our butts as far rearward as possible. What does this accomplish? It moves the center of mass of the system farther rearward and over the rear tire, which then gives the rear tire more available static friction to the road surface in which to provide better stopping power. The same is done when quickly "panic" stopping a motorcycle. Does is matter that only the feet are applying a load to the motorcycle? No. What matters is that the center of mass was shifted rearward. Do roadracers stand on the pegs to lower their center of gravity in turns? Obviously not, they crouch as low as possible over their bikes, with their butts on the seat, (at least partially.) Where a static load is applied to the bike affects how the suspension of the bike is loaded, but it doesn't affect the overall center of gravity. Does everyone understand? Or am I going to be forced to bust out some vector calculus? Jeff Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 06:56:43 -0500 From: Stuart Heaslet Subject: Re: (klr650) Gripster Impression - NKLR At 08:01 PM 11/28/99 -0800, Brian wrote: >One additional comment - I was a bit disappointed with my rear AM24. I'm lucky if I get 5500 miles from the rear AM24 - but the tire is otherwise good so I just keep changing them. Stuart Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 04:03:59 -0800 From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" Subject: Re: (klr650) Hepco Becker/Touratech/Pelican luggage setup for sale NKLR They're totally waterproof and can > hold just about everything I need to take except for my dog. > Unless you got one of them Chihuahuas. Yo quiero Taco Bell! Jeff Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:15:10 -0500 From: Mark Subject: (klr650) NKLR CoG In the interest of lowering the center of gravity, I am installing a 50lb barbell weight in place of my bash plate. This will also provide much more protection than the available standard bash plates. ;^D Mark B2 A2 Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:10:40 -0700 From: Bogdan Swider Subject: RE: (klr650) Gripster Impression - NKLR Yeah, that's pretty much the story. I've gone down several times on gravel. Now I go real slow on turns but sometimes you need some throttle to get through. Trade-offs, trade-offs, I'll be putting on a new Gripster in a week or two. Bogdan Had my first front-end washout with the KLR today on a road that I've been on 4-5 times before and on a switchback (loose gravel) similar to ones I've done 100's of times before. Maybe I would have gone down on the OEM's today too, who knows, but I never have in the past. Overall, the Gripsters just don't feel as planted when going through anything loose at all. I can't imagine what they'd be like in deep sand or gooey mud Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:16:31 -0700 From: Bogdan Swider Subject: RE: (klr650) Big Gun review (cont) Always took you for a nature guy, a tread lightly type. Bogdan Well, after riding 1000+ miles with the quiet baffle and spark arrestor, I must say I highly recommend them. The loud baffle is just ridiculously loud. Right now, its just a healthy loud. I was camping next to a pond filled with ducks, cranes, and swans, and none of them even twitched when I started up, warmed up, and rode away. Eric "no problem" J www.angelfire.com/ga/ericjazz KLR page '98 KLR 650 24,000 miles Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:44:16 -0700 From: Bogdan Swider Subject: RE: (klr650) Hepco Becker/Touratech/Pelican luggage setup for sal e I'm also a big Givi fan, but one with a question. Does it hurt the bags to leave them out in cold weather? I believe this would cause my old BMW bags to crack. Any of you Canucks have an opinion? BTW, what ever happened to Vic B?? Did he fall in love or something? Bogdan Hey Eric, I have the Givi E45 and E36 bags and love it. I interchange them all the time pending on what I need to lug around. It looks and feels good with the 45 on the tail and the 36's on the side. I scraped the 36 the other day turning, it held up fine. They're totally waterproof and can hold just about everything I need to take except for my dog. Aloha, kahiau E14 Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:55:20 -0700 From: Bogdan Swider Subject: RE: (klr650) Tire balancing nklr There's a guy here in town, Bill Brokaw, who wrote a book on trails riding. He told me it's very important to balance tires for dirt riding; sadly I forgot his rational. Another acquaintance, a BMW K type has a system. He mounts the tires, goes for a ride and slowly speeds up to 100mph +. If the bike exhibits any handling problems he balances the tires; if not, he doesn't bother. Bogdan I mounted some Pirelli MT21 tires on my KLR650 a yesterday. Do you balance these tires? I mount and balance all of my tires, but it seems as though these would be senseless to balance. I am running 17 psi rear and 15 psi front for offroad. Does this seem okay. The new tires are great and help me feel more confident in dirt. I did my first power slide on the KLR today. It was fun, but the bike needs more power. I hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving. StAn (Stephanie Anne) Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:24:27 +0000 From: drainr@tbeuk.com Subject: Re[2]: (klr650) Tire balancing nklr Message is sent with MIME. Attachments are base64 encoded - --TFS-with-MIME-and-DIME Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable )He mounts the tires, goes for a ride and slowly speeds up to 100mph )+=2E If the bike exhibits any handling problems he balances the tires; if=20= not,=20 )he doesn't bother=2E Bogdan Reply: It just goes to prove that sometimes that simple solutions are the best=2E However, be careful, the UK spec has Power Steering as standard which=20 eliminates the wobbles=2E Richard D '98KLR650 C3 26k ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and=20 intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they =20 are addressed=2E If you have received this email in error please notify=20 the system manager=2E This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by=20 MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses=2E www=2Emimesweeper=2Ecom ********************************************************************** - --TFS-with-MIME-and-DIME Content-Type: TEXT/RTF; name="MSGCC.RTF" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 e1xydGYxXGFuc2kgXGRlZmYwXGRlZmxhbmcxMDI0e1xmb250dGJse1xmMFxm cm9tYW4gVG1zIFJtbjt9e1xmMVxmcm9tYW4gU3ltYm9sO317XGYyXGZzd2lz cyBIZWx2O319DQp7XGNvbG9ydGJsO1xyZWQwXGdyZWVuMFxibHVlMTI3O1xy ZWQwXGdyZWVuMTI3XGJsdWUwO1xyZWQwXGdyZWVuMTI3XGJsdWUxMjc7XHJl ZDEyN1xncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTA7DQpccmVkMTI3XGdyZWVuMFxibHVlMTI3O1xy ZWQxMjdcZ3JlZW4xMjdcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDEyN1xncmVlbjEyN1xibHVlMTI3 OztccmVkMFxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTI1NTsNClxyZWQwXGdyZWVuMjU1XGJsdWUw O1xyZWQwXGdyZWVuMjU1XGJsdWUyNTU7XHJlZDI1NVxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTA7 XHJlZDI1NVxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTI1NTsNClxyZWQyNTVcZ3JlZW4yNTVcYmx1 ZTA7XHJlZDI1NVxncmVlbjI1NVxibHVlMjU1O31ccGFwZXJ3MTIyNDBccGFw ZXJoMTU4NDBcbWFyZ2wxODAwXG1hcmdyMTgwMFxtYXJndDE0NDBcbWFyZ2Ix NDQwDQpcZ3V0dGVyMCBcZGVmZm9ybWF0XHNlY3RkIFxwYXJkXHBsYWluIHtc cGxhaW4gXGYwIFxjYjcgXGNmMCApSGUgbW91bnRzIHRoZSB0aXJlcywgZ29l cyBmb3IgYSByaWRlIGFuZCBzbG93bHkgc3BlZWRzIHVwIHRvIDEwMG1waFwK KSsuIElmIHRoZSBiaWtlIGV4aGliaXRzIGFueSBoYW5kbGluZyBwcm9ibGVt cyBoZSBiYWxhbmNlcyB0aGUgdGlyZXM7IGlmIG5vdCwgXAopaGUgZG9lc24n dCBib3RoZXIuIEJvZ2RhblwKXApSZXBseTpcCkl0IGp1c3QgZ29lcyB0byBw cm92ZSB0aGF0IHNvbWV0aW1lcyB0aGF0IHNpbXBsZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMgYXJl IHRoZSBiZXN0LlwKXApIb3dldmVyLCBiZSBjYXJlZnVsLCB0aGUgVUsgc3Bl YyBoYXMgUG93ZXIgU3RlZXJpbmcgYXMgc3RhbmRhcmQgd2hpY2ggXAplbGlt aW5hdGVzIHRoZSB3b2JibGVzLlwKXApSaWNoYXJkIERcCic5OEtMUjY1MCBD MyAyNmtcClwKKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKlwKVGhpcyBlbWFp bCBhbmQgYW55IGZpbGVzIHRyYW5zbWl0dGVkIHdpdGggaXQgYXJlIGNvbmZp ZGVudGlhbCBhbmQgXAppbnRlbmRlZCBzb2xlbHkgZm9yIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2Yg dGhlIGluZGl2aWR1YWwgb3IgZW50aXR5IHRvIHdob20gdGhleSAgIFwKYXJl IGFkZHJlc3NlZC4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBp biBlcnJvciBwbGVhc2Ugbm90aWZ5IFwKdGhlIHN5c3RlbSBtYW5hZ2VyLlwK XApUaGlzIGZvb3Rub3RlIGFsc28gY29uZmlybXMgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGVtYWls IG1lc3NhZ2UgaGFzIGJlZW4gc3dlcHQgYnkgXApNSU1Fc3dlZXBlciBmb3Ig dGhlIHByZXNlbmNlIG9mIGNvbXB1dGVyIHZpcnVzZXMuXApcCnd3dy5taW1l c3dlZXBlci5jb21cCioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKipcClxwYXIg fX0= - --TFS-with-MIME-and-DIME-- Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:31:12 -0600 From: "bmgecko" Subject: (klr650) Hello from a Newbie! Hi folks! Just a quick letter of introduction to the list. (It's common courtesy to do so on other lists I'm on...) My name is Chris Astier, and I'm an active-duty Air Force member in Southern New Mexico. I used to ride street bikes a few years back, but got out of it and haven't ridden in a few years. As I've only had a motorcycle license (NEVER had a car license!) I thought about getting a new bike to ride around on. Mt newfound love of the mountains and desert where I'm at led me to think, "They make those funny looking bikes that you can take off-road too, don't they?". Well, research done, questions answered, and it looks like the KLR650 is the bike for me. I'm more interested in it's dual nature, rather than wanting something that can thrash any trail. I want to be able to cruise up to Albuquerque as easily as taking some of the Forest Service roads up in the mountains near my home (Alamogordo, NM). I've seen an ad in the local paper for about a month now for a 1989 KLR650 at a good price ($1250) I just want to check it in person, see how it runs, and then chances are, but the darn thing and get to riding again! I'd thought about just getting a new one at the dealership, but I have the feeling buying something I'll want to add to and mod might as well be done with something that ain't spanking new. No sense in letting long weekends slip by anymore when I'm in the "Land of Enchantment" (NM State motto). Too many ghost towns, old railroad lines, and open roads to not want to tool around on a bike that I can stick my camping gear to, and head off into the horizon. If there's folks here in the area of El Paso to Albuquerque, and West to Tucson, do give a shout to me. I'm interested in finding out about dualie "biker" groups (fun rides, camping) or just folks who might be able to help with any questions in the local area. Red hot blessings! Chris Astier There's my intro! Hope to le Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:45:06 -0600 From: juan carlos ibarra Subject: (klr650) Washing the front NKLR UMMMMM... Well, Arne, I believe the only decent way to lower our CoGs now is cultivating a beer belly while sudying physics, eh? Juan Standing corrected, shameless and unafraid... Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:56:10 -0600 From: juan carlos ibarra Subject: Re: (klr650) Hepco Becker/Touratech/Pelican luggage setup for sale NKLR > >Yo quiero Taco Bell! > >Jeff You gotta be kidding!!! Juan, feeling lucky to have the real enchilada every day... > > >Visit the KLR650 archives at >http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 >Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net >for info. > Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to dsneditor@softhome.net for info. ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #1185 *****************************