From: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com (klr650-digest) To: klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: klr650-digest V2 #833 Reply-To: klr650 Sender: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-klr650-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk klr650-digest Sunday, September 5 1999 Volume 02 : Number 833 (klr650) Kickstand Krunch Re: (klr650) re: overheat (klr650) (NKLR) Utah, Park City (klr650) Vibration (klr650) Running Hot update Re: (klr650) KLR "sex appeal" & old farts (klr650) Jobs (klr650) Kickstand Krunch Re: (klr650) KLR "sex appeal" & old farts Re: (klr650) Running Hot, plugs ........... Re: (klr650) KLR vs. sport bikes Fw: (klr650) NKLR Oil again and LONG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:42:08 -0700 From: "Rodney Baker" Subject: (klr650) Kickstand Krunch This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEF7BD.98BAA140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After nine years of [out]standing service my kickstand broke yesterday. = It buckled about 3" down. Maybe because I tend to swivel the bike into = position on the stand; something Harley riders can't do. However, when = something breaks its always nice to think its being replaced with = something stronger. I found the stand about 1/2" to 1" too short. = specially when the bike is loaded for a trip. If anyone knows of = something stronger and longer I would appreciate hearing about it. Rod - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEF7BD.98BAA140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

After nine years of [out]standing = service my=20 kickstand broke yesterday. It buckled about 3" down. Maybe because = I tend=20 to swivel the bike into position on the stand; something Harley riders = can't do.=20 However, when something breaks its always nice to think its being = replaced with=20 something stronger. I found the stand about 1/2" to 1" too = short.=20 specially when the bike is loaded for a trip. If anyone knows of = something=20 stronger and longer I would appreciate hearing about it.

Rod

- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEF7BD.98BAA140-- Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:49:35 EDT From: LPetty4585@aol.com Subject: Re: (klr650) re: overheat In a message dated 9/5/99 10:53:08 PM !!!First Boot!!!, BSwider@ColoradoCollege.edu writes: << Trouble is if the leak is small enough it sometimes can't be confirmed using this method as was the case with my overheating coolant using/leaking Pontiac V8. Bogdan >> I found that when this problem occurs you push coolant out of the overflow tube, and if you take off the radiator cap you find the radiator is slightly pressurized veruses vacum, I also found small amounts of blowby material in the radiator fluid but never any water in the oil. Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:00:04 -0600 From: Mike Sonzini Subject: (klr650) (NKLR) Utah, Park City Just thought I'd pass on some lodging information to any of you that may be coming to Park City, UT for the vintage races and other associated activities. Park Avenue, 3 Kings, and Pay Day condiminiums. All with covered parking, pool and hot tub, and located right on the road race course and a short walk from the trials and motocross event site. Rates start as low as $85/night (2 night minimum). Longer stays get additional discount. 800-245-6417 www.pclodge.com I'm not affiliated with this company nor do I stand to make a dime from them. Just have had a few people email me about lodging here for the event and this ad was in todays newspaper. Anybody have any questions, I'll try to help you out. Mike Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:40:03 -0400 From: "Eric Kessler" Subject: (klr650) Vibration > Kurt responded: > > First Eric please change your default email format to plain text when > sending to the list. Our digest subscribers have to work through pages > of arcane symbols that only make sense to someone who has been up day > and night for 4 days drinking vats of coffee and listening to the > Nixon/Halderman/Erlichman tapes of the early '70's.... > > As to your vibration question. What you have definitely sounds severe. I > have an A12 as well. I would start by "loving the bike up" with a good > day in your shop. Where are you in your maintenance? Every now and then > when I fall behind in mine and the bike tells me it needs some "huggin > and chalkin" I just have to park it until I can get to it. Such is the > case at this moment as mine needs a steering head adjustment and I'm > just finishing a move to a new house. > > So, if you need some general maintenance this would be a good time to > give 'er a bath, wash, wipe, clean, and wax. All the time you're doing > this you're looking looking looking. Tightening every bolt you can find. > If you find one loose take it out first and put loctite on it and then p > ut it back. Pay close attention to the critical areas around the > subframe, the engine mounts, the swingarms. Make sure you've adjusted > the balancer chain. The new CW on that is loosen it 1/2 turn > only...stand up...spin around three times counterclockwise (this is > important (g)) and then retighten gently...(do not, I repeat do not tap > gently on the side case (g)). Check the forks and make sure the triple > clamps are tight up and below. Check the axles. Check the chain slack. > Check your valve clearances. I bet you'll find something in this > process. > > Meanwhile, send in for a subscription to Dual Sport News...for the long > awaited first article on Dr. Moreau's experiments with rubber damping > the KLR engine are in the upcoming issue about to be mailed next week. > > Forgive me if you knew all the above... > > Kurt > Kurt, thanks for your reply. Sorry about the email format, it should be fixed starting with this reply. I though I did a pretty good job with maintenance at the 3,000 mile mark when I gave the KLR a good once over including a valve adjustment that included replacing one of the shims. I guess I'll just dig out my shop manual and my trusty torque wrench and give the bike's bolts a good going over. Regarding the Dual Sport News I am already a subscriber and will look forward to information on the rubber damping experiment. maybe I was spoiled with the relative smoothness of my old 82 Suzuki GS850-four that I traded in for my KLR, but even with it's current vibration I have no regrets. The zookie could never hold a candle to my current "urban assault vehicle". Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:06:24 EDT From: Capt45@aol.com Subject: (klr650) Running Hot update This list is FANTASTIC! I appreciate all the help and ideas that each of you have replied with. Today I didn't have much time to work on the bike but this is what I did. I replace the radiator cap with a STANT 227 (Thanks Kurt for the tip) It cost 5.50 at local autoparts store compared to 25.00 at dealer. After flushing the system again filled with coolant. Did my normal "test" loop and had some improvement (not much though). The gauge did not peg to the right. It stayed just at the H (the gap in-between the line and the H). Tuesday (since tomorrow is a holiday and shop closed) I am going to try a cooler plug. I am also going to check the carb to make sure that the jets are not partially clogged. If no improvement after this I will go the following route: >>This is the problem that I found on my 90 model after trying everything else it was a slight breach on the head gasket that opened when bike was hot and >>closed when it was cool, 3 hour job to change. Are there any "special" tools required to remove head and replace gasket? Is this just a time consuming effort or do you need to be a good mechanic? I am going to sit down tonight with the shop manuals and read up on this.......I can turn a wrench and follow instruction but need to find the time to do this! Sometimes I think I get enjoyment just by working on these machines! Thanks Again Rob A1 Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:05:22 EDT From: DawnRides@aol.com Subject: Re: (klr650) KLR "sex appeal" & old farts Mike (TLrydr@aol.com) writes: >the girl i am seeing now just likes me for my motorcycles, I kid you not. >I am sure there is a lot of the other old farts on the list that pick up >the babes with there bikes. Well, call me old fashioned then. I don't pick up other "babes" and I sure don't tell my dates that I have a bike. That way I'll know that Mr. Right loves me for me....not for my big beautiful KLR. dawn - who's old...but not excessively flatulent Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:09:51 -0600 From: juan carlos ibarra Subject: (klr650) Jobs I have heard/read a lot about US workers loosing their jobs to Mexican workers. This is funny in a sick kind of way. You see, the jobs that the US looses are given to underpayed Mexican workers BY US INDUSTRIALISTS to cut down on production costs. So the US workers are jobless and the Mexican workers are underpayed and most of the money produced by this manouver goes to the industry's stockholders; in theory, this would increase the US National Gross Product. BUT most stockholders are interested in money, not national gross products, so the money they make could be invested in any stock market of the world that is succesfull at the time (greed has no nationality). So it is not true that US workers are loosing jobs because mean Mexican workers are confabulating against them. They are loosing them because their ex-bosses (the guys who fired them) are very, very greedy. Bet this moneyseeking persons laugh a lot whenever they see workers of both countries fighting each other instead of collaborating to improve working conditions both sides of the border... This is not politics, just common sense (the least common of senses). Another thing, what is an acceptable compression ratio on a KLR? Juan Carlos Juan Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:42:08 -0700 From: "Rodney Baker" Subject: (klr650) Kickstand Krunch This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEF7BD.98BAA140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After nine years of [out]standing service my kickstand broke yesterday. = It buckled about 3" down. Maybe because I tend to swivel the bike into = position on the stand; something Harley riders can't do. However, when = something breaks its always nice to think its being replaced with = something stronger. I found the stand about 1/2" to 1" too short. = specially when the bike is loaded for a trip. If anyone knows of = something stronger and longer I would appreciate hearing about it. Rod - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEF7BD.98BAA140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rod

- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BEF7BD.98BAA140-- Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:07:22 -0600 From: "Kurt Simpson" Subject: Re: (klr650) KLR "sex appeal" & old farts >Well, call me old fashioned then. I don't pick up other "babes" and >I sure don't tell my dates that I have a bike. That way I'll know >that Mr. Right loves me for me....not for my big beautiful >KLR. > >dawn - who's old...but not excessively flatulent you go girl! Wait for Mr. Right... Kurt Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:42:10 -0600 From: "Skip Faulkner" Subject: Re: (klr650) Running Hot, plugs ........... List, I sincerely apologize for an error I made on a previous post. Thanks to Dave and Fred for catching it. I erroneously stated that the lower the plug number, the cooler it was and the higher the number, the hotter it was. That`s true for Champions, but not for NGK`s, which is what I was using as an example. I deal with Champions all day at work , as that is the brand that 95% of piston aircraft use. I have to remember to keep the NGK`s separate in my head. I personally have a Split-Fire in now as part of a temperature (oil, cyl, exh. and water) monitoring thing I`m doing. Again, sorry for the slip. Skip ( No more tech. posts after 1am) Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:52:53 EDT From: K650dsn@aol.com Subject: Re: (klr650) KLR vs. sport bikes In a message dated 9/5/99 2:20:48 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Oilie@aol.com writes: << Several people on this list have commented about being able to keep up with sport bikes in the twisties on their KLR's. My question is, what kind of sport bikes can a KLR keep up with? 500's? Surely not anything remotely similar to a Hyabusa. >> In tight twisty quarters, a KLR will stick to a Hayabusa like white on ride. So will a DR350, KLR250, KTM400, etc... Raw horse power, which the Hayabusa has in spades, is useless in tight corners. The only thing that matters in those conditions is leverage, ground clearnace, plenty of suspension, a little bit of torque and big gonads. Gino Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:46:20 -0600 From: "Skip Faulkner" Subject: Fw: (klr650) NKLR Oil again and LONG >........................................>snip<............................. . >............... >Jeff responded.... > >>Your use of the word shear here is confusing. The definition of shear >>stress is a force that is applied perpindicular to the normal vector of the >>area of the fluid/ divided by the area affected. You seam to be using the >>term shear here to indicate a viscosity breakdown. ...................................>snip<................................... ................. Skip responded.... No, we`re using the same definition of shear stress. That is exactly the stresses that are taking place in areas of the engine ( cylinders, cams, gears and transmission). ............................................................................ .................................. Skip stated in the original post...... >>In the field of >>> petroleum and lubrication, it`s a common fact that VI improvers are not >>> shear stable, they break easily once unfolded ( high heat) into the long, >>> spindly, spagetti-like form. Jeff responded............... >>Then by definition, these molecules are not fluids, they are solids. The >>definition of a fluid is a material that deforms continuously under action >>of shear stresses. For stationary liquids and gasses, there are no shear >>stresses, and the stress state of the fluid are completely determined by >the >>pressure. For fluids that are in motion, the shear stresses are related to >>the rate of deformation of the fluid; when the rate of deformation and the >>stresses are linear, then the fluid is a simple Newtonian fluid, and >subject >>to the analysis I proposed in my previous post. Everything that my text >>suggests, as well as data tables in it, is that multigrade viscosity oils >>are rated with a dynamic viscosity coeffecient, thus can be approximated as >>a Newtonian fluid. Its starting to sound like I need to study some >rheology >>before I understand this, but you specified high heat during the >application >>of these stresses. I would suggest that it is the heat that is providing >>the energy necessary to break the covalently bonded long chain >hydrocarbons, >>not the shear stress itself. The shear stress mearly provides a condition >>for the reaction, i.e. pressure. Skip responded...... The heat is the cause of the polymer chains to unfold, which weakens the bonds and the result is the chains being broken under the shear stresses in certain areas of the engine. Let me quickly explain how multi-viscosity oil is made. A multi-vis oil ( 10W-30) for example starts life as a 10-weight oil. Prior to fortifying the oil with additives, it consists of a straight SAE 10 base stock. Viscosity-index improvers and pour-point depressants ( waxy long-chain polymers) are added to give the oil added thickness at high temps, when the 10-weight base stock would otherwise thin out terribly. The reason VI improvers work is that they change shape, depending on temp. At lower temps, they collapse into little balls of yarn ( imagine); at higher temps, they unfold into long, spindly, noodle-like molecules that behave a lot like normal oil molecules. At lower temps, in the collapsed state, the ball-like forms act like little ball bearings, easily sliding past each other. This is what allows the combination of a thin base stock ( SAE 5,10,15, or 20) and VI improvers to act like a thin oil at low temps, but a thicker oil at high temps. The VI improvers break easily once unfolded, as I stated earlier. They also combust easily, to form soot and other byproducts. This is why synthetics usely leave an engine much cleaner. This is the base standard for all multi-grades. ............................................................................ >..................... > Skip stated in the original post : > >>SAE paper no. 951035 makes reference to this >>> and how the opposing shearing forces do this. That is why in the same >>paper >>> and research study, single grade oils ( mainly SAE 30) proved to protect >>> engines better against wear at high temps than multi-grades, due to the >>fact >>> that single grade oils don`t have these VI improvers, neither does >>synthetic >>> oil. According to a lubrication seminar ( SAE and oil companies >>represented) >>> I went to last year, most of the newer formulated multi-grades have >>shorter >>> VI and p-p depressant polymer chains and are much more stable than >>> previously, although they are still unstable in high stress conditions. >In >>> these cases, shear is not a function of viscosity but of opposing >>frictional >>> forces on the stretched and fragile polymer chains when in high heat >>> conditions. Jeff responded : >>I should look up this paper myself, if I can find the time. Its sounding >>like these polymer chains have very high atomic masses and these multigrade >>oils in question aren't fluids, but colloidal suspensions. I'll ask my >>program advisor and fluids professor, Dr. Rus Westpal, about this in class >>on Tuesday. He is a former NASA rocket scientist, with fluids and >>aeronautics being his specialty. Interesting thing about wax molecules I >>remember from organic chemistry: it doesn't take much to convert them into >>fatty acids in the presence of heat and water, both of which are present >>during combustion. Skip responded : You can get copies if you`re not a member by contacting the Society of Automotive Engineers at (412)776-4841. I think copies are $10. Send me a fax # or your address and I`ll try to dig up mine and send you a copy. Skip stated: >>> Also, oil base stock matrixes don`t break down at all, but the >>polymer >>> chains do and that has given the false impression that the oil is >breaking >>> down. Of all the engineers I deal with from three oil companies, all >state >>> that oil does not break down, but gives the indication of those symptoms >>> when an oil gets saturated with particulate matter ( airborne dirt and >>wear >>> products of the engine), acids, combustion by-products and fuel >>> contamination. For this reason, regular oil and filter changes are >>critical, >>> especially in engines that are not run daily, as condensation ( water and >>> acids) occurs in the engine and sits on metal parts, causing corrosion, >>> unless is burned off in a timely fashion. >>> Good post Jeff. >>> >>Thanks Skip >> >>wondering if mechanical engineering should be given up in favor of chemical >>engineering >> >>Jeff > I wouldn`t do it Jeff. ME has more practical applications to your motorcycle than CE. Stay with it. :>) Skip Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to Editor@dualsport.org for info. ------------------------------ End of klr650-digest V2 #833 ****************************