From: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com (kraftwerk-digest) To: kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #151 Reply-To: kraftwerk-digest Sender: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes kraftwerk-digest Monday, June 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 151 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:12:29 +0100 From: "abzug" Subject: (kw) the tent commandments two one! two one! :)) er, OK enough of that, the following appeared in a festival special given away with london's time out magazine two or three weeks ago. let it be a warning to you lucky fellows who are about to leave for Roskilde :) The Tent Commandments by Peter Pathides Commandment 6: don't spend to long in one of the performance tents I love Kraftwerk. Kraftwerk are my favourite band of all time. so I got very excited when I heard that Kraftwerk were playing at tribal gathering last year. I even managed to make my girlfriend excited about this. Consequently, two hours before Kraftwerk were on we made are way to the front of the tent and began the long wait. thing was though, everybody else wanted to see Kraftwerk, so that by the time the Dusseldorf techno gods were due on stage the place was unbelievably rammed. If Steven Hawking had seen it he'd have to append his theories on quantum physics. That rammed. All of which worried me slightly when twelve smug, slimy, stony-faced, anorak-wearing, pimply-faced, socially malformed, morally stunted, cunt-brained German Kraftwerk fans decided they'd employ brute force to charge their way to the front. After which my girlfriend complained that the lack of air was making her feel dizzy. 'Breath deeply' I begged her, realising there was no space even to crouch. 'I’m feeling faint' she mumbled. 'Shit’ I said. A huge roar as the lights went down -- and so did my girlfriend. I shouted like I’ve never shouted before for people to get out of the way; they didn't. Kraftwerk fans have a weird way of prioritising. Eventually one utter angel of a photographer saw what had happened and violently pushed three intransigent Germans out of the way. After she came round, we went home from the Luton site somewhat traumatised. She’d wet herself whilst unconscious. When we got to the car I gave her my trousers. Interesting fact: the final thing you see as you come off the M1 is a motorway sign, like the cover of 'Autobahn' with a red line through it. How we laughed. jon alsbury i want to die in my sleep like my grandfather ... not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:12:29 +0100 From: "abzug" Subject: (kw) the tent commandments two one! two one! :)) er, OK enough of that, the following appeared in a festival special given away with london's time out magazine two or three weeks ago. let it be a warning to you lucky fellows who are about to leave for Roskilde :) The Tent Commandments by Peter Pathides Commandment 6: don't spend to long in one of the performance tents I love Kraftwerk. Kraftwerk are my favourite band of all time. so I got very excited when I heard that Kraftwerk were playing at tribal gathering last year. I even managed to make my girlfriend excited about this. Consequently, two hours before Kraftwerk were on we made are way to the front of the tent and began the long wait. thing was though, everybody else wanted to see Kraftwerk, so that by the time the Dusseldorf techno gods were due on stage the place was unbelievably rammed. If Steven Hawking had seen it he'd have to append his theories on quantum physics. That rammed. All of which worried me slightly when twelve smug, slimy, stony-faced, anorak-wearing, pimply-faced, socially malformed, morally stunted, cunt-brained German Kraftwerk fans decided they'd employ brute force to charge their way to the front. After which my girlfriend complained that the lack of air was making her feel dizzy. 'Breath deeply' I begged her, realising there was no space even to crouch. 'I’m feeling faint' she mumbled. 'Shit’ I said. A huge roar as the lights went down -- and so did my girlfriend. I shouted like I’ve never shouted before for people to get out of the way; they didn't. Kraftwerk fans have a weird way of prioritising. Eventually one utter angel of a photographer saw what had happened and violently pushed three intransigent Germans out of the way. After she came round, we went home from the Luton site somewhat traumatised. She’d wet herself whilst unconscious. When we got to the car I gave her my trousers. Interesting fact: the final thing you see as you come off the M1 is a motorway sign, like the cover of 'Autobahn' with a red line through it. How we laughed. jon alsbury i want to die in my sleep like my grandfather ... not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 14:12:58 PDT From: "Heather Drain" Subject: (kw) Lynch mob mentality eh? Greetings fellow list members, this could be me repeating myself, but i don't think i stressed some points clearly enough, considering some of the very recent postings, first of all why is everyone attacking jbv? that's fine if you disagree with him, but do it in a tasteful, well thought out way, if he or anyone else on the list who agreed with him felt that way it could only be because he cared about kw, since if he didn't give a damn about kw and their music then he wouldn't want them to progress in other words, if you truly love something you will want to see it continue to change, evolve, and progress instead of stagnating and eventually dying out this can be applied not only to kw, but to music and other arts in general it bothers me to see others on this list waste good energy on bitching and moaning about how someone else whether its jbv or mode or whoever feels...disagreement is fine and occasionally healthy, but not when it becomes this circle of bad feelings now good day to all, sorry to be preachy if i was yours truly, heather d. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:11:33 -0400 From: "Jim L. Jones" Subject: (kw) Something like Robovox I seem to remember an add on product made by Commodore for the C-64 way back when (if anyone remembers the C-64 ;-D) called "The voice of Commodore" which was a module that plugged into the cartridge port of the C-64 that was a speech synthesizer based on the Texas Instruments' LPC (Linear Predictive Coding) scheme... You all may recognize this as what the TI Speak and Spell was based on.. I thought it was pretty handy, and with the flexibility of computer control, i think it had software which would allow it to sing as well... All the Robovox discussion made me remember this little thing... Cheers... Jim J. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:24:04 +0200 From: Herbert Stocker Subject: Re: (kw) Kraftwerk Going to South America? Hi, Mauricio Gonzalez wrote: > > [...] > > On the Germancraft page, done by M. Schmidt, > = > http://www.mdis.de/kraftwerk/ > = > we find this in the News and Information Section. Can anyone translate= ? > = > KRAFTWERK starten im Juni 98 Ihre Welt-Tournee. Die Tour f=FChrt nach T= okyo, > San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, New York . Danach geht es= > zur=FCck nach Europa (Barcelona, Roskilde und evtl. Madrid). Im Sommer = ist > dann noch S=FCdamerika im Gespr=E4ch (Rio de Janeiro und San Paulo). No= ch vor > Beginn der Tour soll auch die neue CD fertig werden. > = Let me try with my own words: KRAFTWERK start in July 98 theire world tour. The tour leads to Tokyo, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, New York. After that they go back to Europe (Barcelona, Roskolde and maybe Madrid). In the summer there is South Amerika in question (Rio de Janeiro and San Paulo). = Yet before the beginning of the tour the new CD should be ready. Hell - -- = hell (Herbert Stocker) __UpDated May 26, 1998 : \/ http://hell.hsh.stusta.mhn.de/~hell __/Hell is also mailto:hell@hell.hsh.stusta.mhn.de __/my NickName goto:Munich.StuSta.hsh[1126] /in RealLife. : # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:06:51 +0500 From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: (kw) Something like Robovox On 22-Jun-98, Jim L. Jones wrote: >I seem to remember an add on product made by >Commodore for the C-64 way back when >(if anyone remembers the C-64 ;-D) called >"The voice of Commodore" which was a module >that plugged into the cartridge port of the >C-64 that was a speech synthesizer based on >the Texas Instruments' LPC (Linear Predictive >Coding) scheme... You all may recognize this >as what the TI Speak and Spell was based on.. >I thought it was pretty handy, and with the >flexibility of computer control, i think it >had software which would allow it to sing as >well... >All the Robovox discussion made me remember >this little thing... Yes, I remember that. I wonder if the hardware/software is still available, since I have 3 Commodore 64s laying around,,, :-) I tried to write some singing software for the Amiga using its speech handler, but it wouldn't stay on pitch. But the voices used by KW on the new versions of Autobahn and Radioactivity use a voice that is very similar to the built-in Amiga voices... - -- Chris Gross cgross@erols.com or cgross@harris-pub.com UTILITY GALLERY: oaktree.simplenet.com/utility Sandy Becker's Page: oaktree.simplenet.com/becker/becker.html # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:21:50 +0100 From: Philip Spedding Subject: (kw) Ageism If you had seen a Schubert Quartet ten year's after he had written it, would you expect it to be different? No - surely not. Kratwerk haven't produced anything seriously new in a long time. Their show, like their website, is not on the cutting edge. But it is a wonderful night's entertainment (as long as you haven't seen two or more nights in a row - but they shouldn't have to plan for such devotion. Anyway, if you followed a particular classical quartet on a world tour you would see the same show each night). Enough pop musicians have sited them as an influence that I am happy enough to believe them. They are most unlikely to be considered in a history of 'serious' electronic music as any more than a footnote - but then again it will probably be the only footnote devoted to popular electronic music in such a tome. I think age does matter. Many serious composers have, of course, written major works past fifty. But with regards popular musicians history is writting itself as we speak - and they are working in an area that is particuarly youth oriented. [As a mark of the difference, I found the lyrical opening to TDF at Tribal quite beautiful and totally different to anything else being played in any other tent]. They are classical musicians in a pop environment. They fit neither mold and are now without a convinving forward momentum. But I don't begrudge them that. I've now seen more or less the same show three times over 17 years. But ever since I heard Autobahn on the radio I have enormously enjoyed following both them and their music - on the rare occasions, of course, when either appear! And I would fight to see the same show again. (jbv - yes, of course you are right, you never said anything about surrealism. Sorry. But I think that they are more capable - and are suited to - that sort of humour nowadays than any other. And, by the way, I love your e-mails. They infuriate me, of course. But are all the more useful/valuable to me because of that. Thank you.) - -- Philip Spedding # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:27:51 -0400 From: "aaron" Subject: Re: (kw) the tent commandments >home from the Luton site somewhat traumatised. She’d wet herself whilst >unconscious. When we got to the car I gave her my trousers. Now THAT's love! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:41:10 -0400 From: "aaron" Subject: (kw) Re: Message Bounce: Having a bad day (semi-off topic) Well, I lost my data drive today, all 2 GB of it, and some precious memories, including my mail file.. GRRRR! Quick boot my ass.. Anyway, the real reason for this is that I sent JBV a message instead of to kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com, so JBV, if you would like to comment and snip on that, it wasn't meant to be personal, it was meant to go to the list. Aaron # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:54:02 +0100 From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Re: (kw) Ageism Philip Spedding wrote: > They are most unlikely to be considered in a history of 'serious' > electronic music as any more than a footnote - but then again it will > probably be the only footnote devoted to popular electronic music in > such a tome. Trying to settle this subject, I may add that whilst I have never seen Kraftwerk mentioned in history books (those covering mainly "serious" e-music), I found in such books more than passing references to Tangerine Dream (including members' solo projects), Zappa, Eno, Pink Floyd, Rick Wakeman and E L & P. All of those mentioned exclusively for various degrees of novel use of electronics. Perhaps Kraftwerk came too late, judging by the time span of the referenced works mentioned (about 1965-1975). Ra wrote: > > > but the recording quality is comparable to everything else I have. > > Highly subjective opinion. What system do you use to listen to > > music? > > System? I not sure of the context of your question. I meant hi-fi system. Recording quality was the issue. aaron wrote: > > Lots of very interesting "serious" composers of emusic achieved > > major works when they were way over 50s (Stockhausen, Parmegiani, > > Henry, Bayle, etc.). > > Fantastic. If they were so major, why are you the only one that knows > about them? Perhaps you could do a web-search for references on these composers before uttering such nonsense... or is your knowledge limited only by what's slammed into your eyes by radio and tv? Cheers! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/8804 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:13:39 -0400 From: "aaron" Subject: Re: (kw) Ageism >> > Lots of very interesting "serious" composers of emusic achieved >> > major works when they were way over 50s (Stockhausen, Parmegiani, >> > Henry, Bayle, etc.). >> >> Fantastic. If they were so major, why are you the only one that knows >> about them? > >Perhaps you could do a web-search for references on these composers >before uttering such nonsense... or is your knowledge limited only by >what's slammed into your eyes by radio and tv? Yahoo turned up 0 category and 0 site matches for Parmegiani. And Stockhausen is a chemical manufacturing company whose claim to fame is a super-absorbent polymer used in diapers. Now, **THAT'S** what I would call a major work! Kraftwerk, on the other hand, turned up a little more tangible evidence. I'm not saying that these people, if they really do exist, didn't do something.. it's just that they are not a household word, and unless you are looking for that, you would never hear of it. To date, no one at work has asked me to go to a Parmegiani concert (maybe because he's dead?) or given me any Parmegiani materials to hear. And yes, my knowledge is limited only by what's slammed into my eyes by radio and TV. Seeing as Kraftwerk gets such exposure on US radio and television, how could it not be? I mean, c'mon, they run those Computer World commercials 24 hours a day. Aaron # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:39:40 +0100 From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Re: (kw) Ageism aaron wrote: > Yahoo turned up 0 category and 0 site matches for Parmegiani. Well, Yahoo reported this message when I inserted Parmegiani: "Found 444 AltaVista web pages for parmegiani" And plenty of the listed links seem promising for starters. > Stockhausen is a chemical manufacturing company whose claim to fame is > a super-absorbent polymer used in diapers. Now, **THAT'S** what I > would call a major work! It indeed is. But the 2nd link should be more to the point :-) Cheers! - -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/8804 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:22:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: (kw) The Gary Numan Show was dull... ? On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, jbv wrote: > > Uh, you're saying that Gary Numan in 1979/80 wasn't electronic music? > Frankly, I've never thought that GN was music at all... The trouble I have with the GN stuff I've heard is that the music is not bad, even good in places, but he ruins it by singing. /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:40:58 EDT From: Subject: Re: (kw) The Gary Numan Show was dull... ? In a message dated 98-06-21 23:25:12 EDT, lapierrs@cuug.ab.ca writes: << > > Uh, you're saying that Gary Numan in 1979/80 wasn't electronic music? > Frankly, I've never thought that GN was music at all... The trouble I have with the GN stuff I've heard is that the music is not bad, even good in places, but he ruins it by singing. >> To a certain degree, Numan has been just as big of an influence as has Kraftwerk,IMHO...... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:47:08 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) Ageism On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, aaron wrote: > And yes, my knowledge is limited only by what's slammed into my eyes by > radio and TV. Seeing as Kraftwerk gets such exposure on US radio and > television, how could it not be? I mean, c'mon, they run those Computer > World commercials 24 hours a day. You're kidding! The most KW gets up here in Canada is an occasional (like, every two or three months) late-night radio play of something off The Mix or CW. /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:51:04 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) The Gary Numan Show was dull... ? On Sun, 21 Jun 1998 Ultravox5@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-06-21 23:25:12 EDT, lapierrs@cuug.ab.ca writes: > << > > > Uh, you're saying that Gary Numan in 1979/80 wasn't electronic music? > > Frankly, I've never thought that GN was music at all... > > The trouble I have with the GN stuff I've heard is that the music is not > bad, even good in places, but he ruins it by singing. > >> > To a certain degree, Numan has been just as big of an influence as has > Kraftwerk,IMHO...... That's another topic, but yes, though maybe on a different branch of music. I think KW may have had more of an effect on techno, and Numan more on ambient and trance. /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:15:08 +1100 From: nick Subject: Re: (kw) Ageism But do any Canadians remember when First Choice started in '83? As filler they used to play an animated Autobahn video with a little blue guy floating around and giant lips singing around him . Was it legitimate or some national film board vignette? - as well as "Closet Cases of the Nerd Kind" (I used to be a mathematition before I was a bad actor I think it's pie) and "Hardware Wars" # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 05:17:00 +0100 From: Mike Pitt Subject: (kw) Classic Concerts cd I received the Classic Concerts cd yesterday via CD Now Uk. What an excellent document of kw circa 1975 it is too, great sound quality. I was wondering what the original source was as it doesn't give this info on the cd. I'm thinking perhaps a radio broadcast from Paris ? It is different from the versions given as bonus tracks on the kw 1 & 2 bootlegs which are from K=F6ln I think. If it helps any, Kometenmelodie begins with church bells and vocodered speech. Mike. Kraftwerk Live 1981 and Cover Versions http://website.lineone.net/~mike.pitt/tdk.htm # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:09:48 +0000 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) Classic Concerts cd Mike Pitt wrote: > = > I received the Classic Concerts cd yesterday via CD Now Uk. > What an excellent document of kw circa 1975 it is too, great > sound quality. I was wondering what the original source was > as it doesn't give this info on the cd. I'm thinking perhaps > a radio broadcast from Paris ? It is different from the > versions given as bonus tracks on the kw 1 & 2 bootlegs which > are from K=F6ln I think. If it helps any, Kometenmelodie begins > with church bells and vocodered speech. Sounds like the 1976 Paris concert... jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:24:59 +0000 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) Re: Message Bounce: Having a bad day (semi-off topic) aaron wrote: > > Well, I lost my data drive today, all 2 GB of it, and some precious > memories, including my mail file.. GRRRR! Quick boot my ass.. And of course, no back up hey ? > Anyway, the real reason for this is that I sent JBV a message instead of to > kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com, so JBV, if you would like to comment and snip > on that, it wasn't meant to be personal, it was meant to go to the list. OK, here we go... here's your original message : - ------------------------ Okay, now we're getting somewhere. >> And let me guess... now that you aren't allowed to play with their buttons >> you are disgruntled. Awwwww.. > >Please, don't be more stupid than I am... I guarantee nothing. >> Uh, you're saying that Gary Numan in 1979/80 wasn't electronic music? > >Frankly, I've never thought that GN was music at all... That's too bad. His whole MachMen phase was something that you may have really enjoyed. Between 1986 and 1993 a lot of what he put out was pretty pathetic by most standards, but before that, he put out some really great music. And much of it I'm sure inspired by KW. KW had broke the bubble on that, he followed it. >> I had the joy of seeing KW for the first, and only >> time, this year in Detroit. I don't have all their albums, 12"s, singles, >> remixes, whatever. I simply really enjoyed the show. Perhaps that is because >> I was looking at it with open eyes instead of Roger Ebert eyes, filling my >> head with nostalgia of how great and free we all were in 1981 when KW let us >> touch their keyboards, damnit. > >I fully understand that. Actually, I didn't make any nasty comments >after the SF show coz most of the list members who were there had >just seen them for the first time. And I didn't want to spoil their >pleasure, really. >Actually, for people who saw the KK studio on stage for the 1st time in >81, the enjoyment was of the same nature as yours. > >But now, wait 10 years and go and see them again (same show of course, >and no major album in between), and then wait another 7 yrs and see the >same show again (and still no new album of course). And tell me if you >still enjoy the show... So basically, you are a disgruntled fan trying to revel in your history and were disappointed that the show was not as you expected. Which, by the way, is fine.. we all try to relive our history at some point (college reunions, finding old sweethearts, parties with old friends, email), but that doesn't necessitate trying to ruin others opinions or be a spoil sport. The simple fact remains that you went to this show with *massive* preconceptions of what it should be, and when those preconceived notions were not met, you were disappointed. Well, I really feel sorry for you, in that you were not able to accept the show for what it was. If you stand back and look at the show from a "newbie" POV, you will see that the show was tight. Very tight. And very enjoyable. The music was brought "up to date", the stage presence was impressive (ah, I knew them back *when*.... nostalgic sigh), and the stage show incredible. I hate to say it, but you are in a definite minority here. I think most people would agree that this concert had a lot of effort thrown into it and most would consider it very successful. And, it is naive to think that they wouldn't change the show after so many years. Granted, it is essentially the first show since 1981 for many, but c'mon.. that's what, 17 years? How much have you, personally, changed in 17 years? No reason to believe that they would be in a time stop for that long. The technology has changed, people have changed (would you *really* let people maul your equipment on stage in a place like LA?), and Kraftwerk has changed. Accept it. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:10:21 +0000 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) The Kraftwerk Show was dull... (?) aaron wrote: > > So basically, you are a disgruntled fan trying to revel in your history and > were disappointed that the show was not as you expected. Which, by the way, > is fine.. we all try to relive our history at some point (college reunions, > finding old sweethearts, parties with old friends, email), but that doesn't > necessitate trying to ruin others opinions or be a spoil sport. If you're trying the art of caricature, at least do it in a funny way... > The simple fact remains that you went to this show with *massive* > preconceptions of what it should be, and when those preconceived notions > were not met, you were disappointed. Psycho-analysts call this "projection". It's actually YOU who have "massive preconceptions" (and very boring ones BTW) of what my expectations could have been. I've already discussed that issue in previous messages, so the only thing I'll say is that I went to see a band "fascinated by movement" and who used to have a good sense of electronic humour... > Well, I really feel sorry for you, in > that you were not able to accept the show for what it was. Nice one. he he he... > If you stand back > and look at the show from a "newbie" POV, Why the hell should I do that ? > you will see that the show was > tight. Very tight. And very enjoyable. I've seen 4 gigs of the present tour, plus Linz and ZKM. And what I saw was basically numerous technical flaws... > The music was brought "up to date", Almost every tune had shrank to a sterile politically-correct version from which the most funny parts (TdF, PC, etc) and every musical development / improvisation had been expurgated, as if they were trying to re-write history. Possible names for the next album : Pravda Discovered by Madame Tussaut > the stage presence was impressive (ah, I knew them back *when*.... nostalgic > sigh), and the stage show incredible. Are we really talking about the same band ? > I hate to say it, but you are in a > definite minority here. So what ? Does it mean that this list should be expurgated from its minorities ? > I think most people would agree that this concert > had a lot of effort thrown into it and most would consider it very > successful. Did you make any survey ? > And, it is naive to think that they wouldn't change the show after so many > years. Granted, it is essentially the first show since 1981 for many, but > c'mon.. that's what, 17 years? How much have you, personally, changed in 17 > years? You have absolutely no idea, my friend... > No reason to believe that they would be in a time stop for that long. The > technology has changed, people have changed (would you *really* let people > maul your equipment on stage in a place like LA?), and Kraftwerk has > changed. > > Accept it. Mmmh... According to some report on the list, their gear spent a whole afternoon on the sidewalk in Detroit... Is Detroit much safer than LA ? jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:11:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) Ageism On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, nick wrote: > But do any Canadians remember when First Choice started in '83? As I think so. Wasn't First Choice the first pay-TV movie channel? Never would fall for a rip-off idea like that. I have seen a KW video on MuchMusic though, and in one of their station IDs I saw a split-second clip of the heads from the EC cover moving around. The same clip was also used in the Wired magazine ad, which I found an MPEG of somewhere. > filler they used to play an animated Autobahn video with a little blue > guy floating around and giant lips singing around him . Was it Weird. /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:42:53 +0200 From: Eric.Schader@gambro.com Subject: RE: (kw) various > Anyway, if you go to see a string quartet playing anything (old or > new) > do you expect them to improvise all over the place and create a > different sound each night? No! You expect them to recreate the > music > as written, no matter how old it is. > Eh, not necessarily. Just a small note. That DO depend on the work. I must admit that I'm not sure about string quartets but if you for example take some of the violin and piano concertos written by Paganini and Mozart you'll find that there are recordings where Beethoven have written cadenzas on pieces by Mozart and as far as I know, I have never seen a violin concerto by Paganini where he himself has written the cadenza. The Cadenza was/is a part of the piece which is supposed to be improvised by the performing solo artist. Kreisler, among others, have been known for performing beautiful cadenzas on others pieces. Of course this does mean that part of the piece will be improvised and not the whole piecs have to be improviced but who in modern music is doing that. Eric # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:50:09 -0400 From: resin@tuna.net (darren) Subject: Re: (kw) The Kraftwerk Show (ny) was fucked up for me.. >On Sun, 21 Jun 1998 03:49:47 -0400 resin@tuna.net (darren) writes: >> >>> > >>i was at the new york show- but i was also not able to see them. long >>sad >>story that i will share later (did anyone in ny see me- a disco dread >>in >>the lobby nursing a too stoned/dehydrated looking lady?? ...bad date >>choice...) >> >were you by the bathrooms downstairs? > >tom w not by the bathrooms. as i ran up and down the stairs of the hammerstein ballroom getting water for my lady friend with very low stamina, i heard radio activity resounding in the backround. i really feel sad about missing these moments, as i had been anticipating it for months (may i say years?!) but when a friend is ill you have to do what you gotta do.. we crouched in the lobby for a while, she said she was feeling better and i was able to see the end of tee, peeking around the t shirt stand. the rest of the show i spent in the very back of the room, barely able to pay attention to kw for fear that this young lady was really feeling bad. many people who understand my love and admiration for kraftwerk said i should have just let her sit off by her self, or throw her in a cab... i think i would have felt worse the next day if i had chosen the "kraftwerk are more important than you" route. although i did feel mad upset later. at least the mystery of kw is still there for me, and i hope to see them again with some one who can drink 2 beers and still maintain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ps- come check out TIC TAC on monday night at BAR XVI (16 1st. ave between 1/2st. in new york city) featuring myself, and dj stevie nix on the crazy 1200's.. we are there every monday night and we do a "live electronic music showcase" once a month. any one in the area interested please get in touch or stop by. it's free.. best regards to all darren http://www.tuna.net/resin email:resin@tuna.net # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:41:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) The Gary Numan Show was dull... ? On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Jules Seifert wrote: > Ra wrote: > > On Sun, 21 Jun 1998 Ultravox5@aol.com wrote: > > > To a certain degree, Numan has been just as big of an influence as has > > > Kraftwerk,IMHO...... > > > > That's another topic, but yes, though maybe on a different branch of > > music. I think KW may have had more of an effect on techno, and Numan > > more on ambient and trance. > WTF is this? It's a message on a mailing list, but that's not important right now... > Numan had an indelible effect on electronic music in the 1979/80. He has > _never_ said he is anything special, but that he just beat everybody > else to the post. His worst trait was to actually admit who his > influences were, thus leading to accusations of fakeness and plaguarism. > Unfounded IMO is the popular myth that he was just a one man ultravox. > The reason he sounded like them, is mainly cos he had billie currie in > his band at the time. Before numan, all we had was 'prog-electro' such > as kw, jarre, etc, etc. He opened the floodgates (in the uk at least) to > bands such as human league, omd, DM, and a host of other new, fresh > artists. And yes, even ultravox. And this is relevant because... ? /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #151 *******************************