From: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com (kraftwerk-digest) To: kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #618 Reply-To: kraftwerk-digest Sender: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes kraftwerk-digest Saturday, December 15 2001 Volume 02 : Number 618 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:03:09 -0700 (MST) From: Soleil Lapierre Subject: Re: (kw) *argh!* On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Der Doppelg=E4nger wrote: > this fucking majordomo program shit really annoys me deeply!!!!!!!!!! > *argh!* There's lots of other things that might be at fault, you know. Lots of=20 people have used majordomo for a long time with no complaints. It might b= e=20 misconfigured at xmission, or perhaps their mail server is staggering=20 under the huge load that is placed on it. The problem could also lie with= =20 your ISP or your own software. I've never had any problems like yours. - --=20 /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:22:11 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: (kw) missing messages (again) ... hi again! well, here's a short history of the replies that i've sent to the list in the past two days: 1st reply to omega chance's message "korrekt in das model...": sent on the 13.12.2001 / 14:46 cet status: still missing! did you get that message by now, omega? 2nd reply to laerm's message (but with different subject line!) "'language is a v-i-r-u-s!' ;)": sent on the 13.12.2001 / 15:06 cet status: still missing! did you get that message by now, laerm? reposting of the above 1st reply: sent on the 14.12.2001 / 18:03 cet status: appeared in my inbox and on the list on the 14.12.2001 / 18:04 cet (!!!!!) reposting of the above 2nd reply: sent on the 14.12.2001 / 18:04 cet status: still missing! why that????? however, thanks a lot for your kind replies to this matter on or off list, peo, laerm and jan! :) p.s.: by now, i suppose that the majordomo program has some trouble with certain words like "v-i-r-u-s" (please excuse the silly writing style, but *everytime* i wrote this word like it should be written, the messages were rejected! :o ) and words like "o-n" and "o-f-f" in (*) signs (like the word "everytime" above!) or "w-r-o-n-g" and "f-a-l-s-e" or "r-i-g-h-t" and "t-r-u-e" in (") signs in the same line of the message body! :o could this be the reason for all the rejected messages that i've sent in the past two days? - - der doppelgänger (who's still worried about the "why?"!) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:25:21 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: (kw) "language is a v-i-r-u-s!" :o well, i cannot remember that i've got the original message below from mr. lärm *o-n* the list, so i suppose that it was sent to mr. evan's *o-f-f* list!? anyway, i had to sent one of my messages yesterday also twice to the list and only the reposting appeared on it so far! :o however, it's just like laurie anderson once said in one of her well known songs: "language is a v-i-r-u-s!" ;) > Laerm schrieb: > > if nobody can understand what the hell you're saying, > you're wrong. erm ... nope! because to be "w-r-o-n-g" simply means to spread "f-a-l-s-e" information and to be "r-i-g-h-t" simply means to spread "t-r-u-e" information! ;) so if nobody can understand what the heck someone is saying, it maybe just means that the language that this person uses is still unknown to others, which doesn't make the contents of it wrong in general! by the way, there are lots of ancient languages that are still a mere mystery to most of us, but if we could decode them properly one day, we'll maybe find "the key to life" or something equally important! ;) - - der doppelgänger :) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:52:13 -0700 From: Enrique Correa Subject: Re: (kw) *argh!* Der Doppelg=E4nger wrote: > thanks a lot for your kind message, peo, but i suppose by now that=20 > there is not "something", but "somebody", who "moderates" my > messages ... for what reason soever! :\ Relax OJ (did I say OJ? probably your paranoid bitching brought back memories from en ex member of this list...) I mean... Der = Doppelg=E4nger, nobody's after your case. You're not in the FBI or CIA sh#t list, at = least not yet. Again, relax bro'... you'll live longer :-) E # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:35:59 -0700 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: (kw) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:37:57 +0100 hi again! well, here's a short history of the replies that i've sent to the list in the past two days: 1st reply to omega chance's message "korrekt in das model...": sent on the 13.12.2001 / 14:46 cet status: still missing! did you get that message by now, omega? 2nd reply to laerm's message (but with different subject line!) "'language is a v-i-r-u-s!' ;)": sent on the 13.12.2001 / 15:06 cet status: still missing! did you get that message by now, laerm? reposting of the above 1st reply: sent on the 14.12.2001 / 18:03 cet status: appeared in my inbox and on the list on the 14.12.2001 / 18:04 cet (!!!!!) reposting of the above 2nd reply: sent on the 14.12.2001 / 18:04 cet status: still missing! why that????? however, thanks a lot for your kind replies to this matter on or off list, peo, laerm and jan! :) p.s.: by now, i suppose that the majordomo program has some trouble with certain words like "v-i-r-u-s" (please excuse the silly writing style, but *everytime* i wrote this word like it should be written, the messages were rejected! :o ) and words like "o-n" and "o-f-f" in (*) signs (like the word "everytime" above!) or "w-r-o-n-g" and "f-a-l-s-e" or "r-i-g-h-t" and "t-r-u-e" in (") signs in the same line of the message body! :o could this be the reason for all the rejected messages that i've sent in the past two days? - - der doppelgänger (who's still worried about the "why?"!) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:52:28 +0100 From: Rick Jansen Subject: Re: (kw) Getting things on track Eric Gartner wrote: > > >Did Kraftwerk really play Autobahn in front of an audience before they recorded > >it? > > "Europe Endless", "Trans-Europe Express", and "Showroom Dummies" were played > before their release in 1976, though I don't know if they had already been > recorded. Was Europe Endless ever played live...??? Or a predecessor? Europe Endless requires a sequencer and a carefully timed delay (echo), quite difficult to do live in those days. Dirk Matten: do you know if they used the Synthanorma live before the 1981 Computerworld Tour? (I don't think so.) > ... there is a rather rhythmic piece > of music based unmistakably on the tune of 'Showroom Dummies', This may have been a live "Kristallo". I've heard Kristallo, with the (later) Showroom Dummies melody. Rick Jansen - -- Web: http://www.euronet.nl/~rja/ email: rja@euronet.nl Any spam mail sent to me results in counter measures. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:00:11 -0700 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: (kw) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:36:51 +0100 well, i cannot remember that i've got the original message below from mr. lärm *o-n* the list, so i suppose that it was sent to mr. evan's *o-f-f* list!? anyway, i had to sent one of my messages yesterday also twice to the list and only the reposting appeared on it so far! :o however, it's just like laurie anderson once said in one of her well known songs: "language is a v-i-r-u-s!" ;) > Laerm schrieb: > > if nobody can understand what the hell you're saying, > you're wrong. erm ... nope! because to be "w-r-o-n-g" simply means to spread "f-a-l-s-e" information and to be "r-i-g-h-t" simply means to spread "t-r-u-e" information! ;) so if nobody can understand what the heck someone is saying, it maybe just means that the language that this person uses is still unknown to others, which doesn't make the contents of it wrong in general! by the way, there are lots of ancient languages that are still a mere mystery to most of us, but if we could decode them properly one day, we'll maybe find "the key to life" or something equally important! ;) - - der doppelgänger :) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:14:12 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: (kw) the original version of "autobahn" (just kidding! ;) kraftwerk - "autobahn" side a: "autobahn", "ausfahrt", "raststätte" & "picknick" side b: "autobahn 2", "baustelle" & "stau" ("endlos, endlos" ;) bonus tracks on cassette & cd only: "reifenpanne", "motorschaden" & "abschleppwagen" ;) - - der doppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:17:06 -0500 From: "Christian Claycomb" Subject: RE: (kw) What happened to... ~ -----Original Message----- ~ From: owner-kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner- ~ ~ Oh Jay and Christian Claycomb? Are they still here? ~ ~ Signed, ~ omegaChance ~ __________________________________ ~ MAIL: omegaChance@gc-2.com ~ AIM: omegaChance ~ ICQ: 96951338 ~ WEB: www.GC-2.com I didn't see this until just now!! Opsss..... Yes... I'm still here!! :D Glad you asked!! :D You've been away for a little while eh! Glad you're back!! :D - ------------Please cut along the dotted line------------- Christian http://www.mp3.com/christianac UniQue Werkx >>---------------------><-------------------------<< # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:35:42 -0000 From: "John Shilcock" Subject: (kw) Europe Endless Live Rick Jansen" wrote >Was Europe Endless ever played live...??? Or a predecessor? Yes... this most definitely WAS played live... during the 1976 concerts... though I don't know how often it was played... The concert at "The Roundhouse, London" on 10/10/76 had this as a track line up.... Intro Comet Meoldy Europe Endless Radioactivity Air Waves "Symphonie of the Radio" Ohm Sweet Ohm Trans Europe Express Tongbirge Autobahn Showroom Dummies (On the recording I have this does not appear... but fro= m the following article from Sounds (Dated 16/10/76) this was played as an encore! In the article is also mentioned that Antenna was played... but then mayb= e it was just a picture of a Antenna being shown over Air Waves.. and the reporter got confused? Keep Werking John www.keepwerking.co.uk Dave Fudger (Sounds 16 Oct 1976) I MISSED the Penguin Caf=E9 Orchestra, which is annoying, as a Friend, w= ho didn't miss them, described them as 'sort of improvisational chamber/rock= ', Well, they don't make many outings so I'll have to try and pick up on the= ir Obscure Records album. National Healths set I did catch in full and for a short while the memory= of that mighty combo, Hatfield & The North came to life. That is not to deny= NH their own performing and compositional skills, but with three members (Da= ve Stewart. Phil Miller and Amanda Parsons) having made hefty contributions = to various Hatfield incarnations the flavour is undeniable (and very welcome= ). For you ignorant dorks with no former knowledge of Hatfield and the North they were (as now are National Health) the front running developers of a school of British jazz/rock (sorry, brevity requires labels) that owes ve= ry Little to the Billy Cobhams and Weather Reports beloved of so many curren= t jazz/rockers, (If you want to check this staff nut for yourself, the Heal= th will be appearing on John Peel's radio show soon.) Anyway after a slightly faltering start, the band went on to present a nourishing set- Miller's guitar playing was at times both dazzlingly more aggressive and characteristically rockier than his playing with the Hatfields. Bill Braford's drumming is always impressive and keeps the cor= e of National Health's music a very lively proposition. Unique is the word for their music - harnessing virtuosity and taste with such skill that melody and improvisation blend with uncanny ease- It woul= d be nice to be able so buy records of the stuff. Kraftwerk are a mach more illusive gang to dopple. Their uniqueness is overwhelmingly apparent from their bank generation apparel and bleak stag= e lighting to their specially developed electronic instruments and resultan= t music. The Kraftwerks are Ralf, Karl, Wolfgang and Florian: they sport short hai= r and their aforementioned togs are slightly baggy, old-fashioned suits bla= ck for percussionists Karl and Wolfgang: grey for keyboards men Ralf and Florian. Each member is identified with his name in noon in a perspex box= in front of him (nice touch, that). Surrounded by the boxes of flourescent tubes that make up the onstage lighting the overall visual is of a brace = of Gilbert and Georges let loose in a supermarket at midnight. One critic in the past referred to the lads as showroom dummies - a label they exploit = in their encore number - but more of that later. The Kraftwerks followed a mildly dramatic introduction from an electronically processed voice with a brief announcement front Ralf: "You are going to see a film," and then. "The first piece is called 'Kometmelo= die '", which duly followed. The tune was illustrated by slide projections of comets an' space an' stuff. It was quite enjoyable. The groups performance - material mostly from the 'Autobahn' and 'Radioactivity' albums - was further visually assisted by slides and the subject matter of these was generally very literally tied to the pieces (= a radiation symbol, for 'Radioactivity'. the Trans-Europe Express train for 'Trans Europe Express', an antenna for 'Antenna', a picture of the lads themselves for 'Europe Endless' (eh?), never mind, you get the picture). Their music is, well, infuriating is what I keep thinking. The formula us= ed for their big single hit 'Autobahn' - very simple electronic rhythm and melodies, banal lyrics sung in a monotone, occasional quirky sound interludes - is the staple approach to virtually all the songs. This is, = by turns naive, disarming, fresh, hypnotically mesmerising, and embarrassing= ly hammy and bland - some of the keyboard parts sound like Harry Corbet's So= oty fumblings. If Tangerine Dream's music in anyway represents the future of rock music, then the Kraftwerks must be representative of 'future pop' whereas now th= ey are at best only arty. Arty not art because they don't achieve either the total, robot-like detachment of the 'You are going to see a film'' idea y= et they do offer some innovation and creativity in performance - like using photo-electric switches to control percussion sounds. Anyway, enough of this, they finished their set with an extended 'Autobah= n' (accompanied by a projection of a motorway [you guessed]) and, following = a 'mighty roar from the crowd' scene, returned to encore with a song/piece called 'Showroom Dummies' - the lyrics going something like 'We are showr= oom dummies, exposing ourselves', Is this some kind of nose thumbing stunt ai= med at the critics? Whatever, it was the first time I'd seen them, I was disappointed. Dave Fudger (Sounds 16 Oct 1976) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:22:02 -0000 From: "John Shilcock" Subject: Fw: (kw) Getting things on track markus.berzborn@t-online.de wrote > Are you sure this date is correct? The concert list at Kraftwerk.mdis.d= e mentions Leverkusen, 24 April 1974. This would be even earlier - quite amazing. He is quite correct... I put the wrong date (May) into my posting... apologies for any confusion caused! BUT after the comments made by Eric Gartner (and the quotes from Aktivit=E4t 7 I'm well confuesed... and now i don't have any = drink in me! *he he*) Keep Werking John www.keepwerking.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:05:02 -0500 From: Eric Gartner Subject: (kw) Kraftwerk Concerts > Sounds quite similar to the music on "Concert Classics". Does anyone know when > this was recorded? I always thought that the gig featured on "Concert > Classics" > took place after the WDR radio recording because the flute parts on Autobahn > are > largely missing. This would place it in 1975, though, not in 1974. According to the Japanese version, Concert Classics was recorded in Dallas, Texas, on May 1, 1975. This is a concert which is missing from many Kraftwerk concert lists, but Wolfgang has confirmed its existence. There are those who argue otherwise, but I think the Dallas venue is correct. The date, the instruments, the crowd, where Concert Classics surfaced from -- it all adds up. > Now that's amazing! I was at a concert of the 1981 Computer World tour and > remember that Mitternacht (which I did not recognize in the first place) was > played as a kind of intro for "Showroom Dummies" back then. This was apparently a standard part of the 81 tour. My copy of a New York show has the very same thing. It's quite a nice intro, really. - -Eric # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:45:18 +0100 From: Reetze@t-online.de (Jan Reetze) Subject: Re: (kw) Getting things on track Rick Jansen schrieb am 14.12.2001 19:52 Uhr MEZ: > This may have been a live "Kristallo". I've heard Kristallo, with the > (later) Showroom Dummies melody. I remember I heard it live, it started as "Kristallo" and ended up in a kin= d of "Tanzmusik". And Florian breathing live into a mike - yes, that was "Atem", seriously! The audience was completely floored (or maybe couldn't believe it) - and then, Kraftwerk had played for about 30 minutes, the hall lighting went on and the supervising staff began to throw out the audience, because it was 11 o'clock, the concert had to be closed down and the hall had to be cleared up. Kraftwerk played on, while we had to leave. - Must have been 1973 or 1974, at a two-day rock festival with Guru Guru, Kraan, Amon D=FC=FCl II (yeah, really, with Renate!!!) and many others. KW were headlining the first day, on stage were R, F & W. But if you can remember these kind of festivals exactly, you can't have really been there... Good night, kids and night beauties, take a walk on the wild side. (giggle) - -J. - -- feel free to visit http://reetze.bei.t-online.de/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:45:16 +0100 From: Reetze@t-online.de (Jan Reetze) Subject: Re: (kw) "language is a v-i-r-u-s!" :o Der Doppelg=E4nger schrieb am 14.12.2001 19:25 Uhr MEZ: > however, it's just like laurie anderson once said in one of her well know= n > songs: "language is a v-i-r-u-s!" ;) - --- from Outer Space! --- (And it was good old William S. Burroughs who sai= d it.) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:20:25 +0100 From: markus.berzborn@t-online.de (Markus Berzborn) Subject: Re: (kw) Getting things on track > > > > "Europe Endless", "Trans-Europe Express", and "Showroom Dummies" were played > > before their release in 1976, though I don't know if they had already been > > recorded. > > Was Europe Endless ever played live...??? Or a predecessor? > Europe Endless requires a sequencer and a carefully timed > delay (echo), quite difficult to do live in those days. Klaus Schulze bought his Synthanorma in 1975 (it's mentioned on the Timewind album), so why shouldn't Kraftwerk have had one in 1976? # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:58:51 +0100 From: Dirk Matten Subject: (kw) Getting things on track >Klaus Schulze bought his Synthanorma in 1975 >(it's mentioned on the Timewind album), >so why shouldn't Kraftwerk have had one in 1976? They bought two Synthanorma Sequencers with Intervallomat and a special clock oszillator to programm speed with digits. Perfekt, meine Herren, funktioniert hervorragend! Dirk Matten ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:16:24 +0000 From: "Robert Evans" Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:36:51 +0100 Doppelganger wrote: >well, i cannot remember that i've got the original message below from mr. >lärm *o-n* the list, so i suppose that it was sent to mr. evan's *o-f-f* >list!? Just to put you at rest, Doppelganger, it was sent to me "off list". I forwarded it to the list to keep the debate open to everyone. But also, I wanted there to be a true illustration of Laerm's behaviour, i.e., his insulting e-mails were sent to me "off list", and his more polite ones were sent to the list... But the matter is at a close now. I am quite prepared to disagree with anyone, even Dirk Matten (oh, the horror). But I still respect you greatly, Dirk, for your contribution to music. I started three sentences with the word "but"....what does that reflect on my state of mind? Rob. P.S. John Shilcock, what do you think on the idea that Kraftwerk always wanted "Autobahn" to be "album length"? Not just side A? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:05:06 +0100 From: Dirk Matten Subject: (kw) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:36:51 +0100 >But the matter is at a close now. >I am quite prepared to disagree with anyone, >even Dirk Matten (oh, the horror). Did not get the content ... If I can help you, please get your problem ruckzuck into some simple words. Dirk *out of sync* ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:03:44 +0100 From: Rick Jansen Subject: Re: (kw) Getting things on track Markus Berzborn wrote: > > > > > > > "Europe Endless", "Trans-Europe Express", and "Showroom Dummies" were played > > > before their release in 1976, though I don't know if they had already been > > > recorded. > > > > Was Europe Endless ever played live...??? Or a predecessor? > > Europe Endless requires a sequencer and a carefully timed > > delay (echo), quite difficult to do live in those days. > > Klaus Schulze bought his Synthanorma in 1975 (it's mentioned on the Timewind > album), so why shouldn't Kraftwerk have had one in 1976? I *know* they had the Synthanorma, but their live appearances in '76 did not feature a lot of equipment, and the Synthanorma *is* rather big. In the '81 concerts the far left rack contains it. As far as I remember only during Die Roboter and Metropolis the lights were actually running. Rick Jansen - -- Web: http://www.euronet.nl/~rja/ email: rja@euronet.nl Any spam mail sent to me results in counter measures. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:23:31 +0100 From: Dirk Matten Subject: (kw) Getting things on track >I *know* they had the Synthanorma, >but their live appearances in '76 did not feature a lot of equipment, >and the Synthanorma *is* rather big. Please go to '70 pic http://kraftwerk.dante.eti.br/pictures_70years.php#classic5 and have a close look to http://kraftwerk.dante.eti.br/images/images/70years/mini/pic45_70.jpg This is one of the two machines with minimal equipment on stage. Must have been Paris, Ralf told me some days ago. Alles klar, Herr Ingenieur? Dirk *synced* ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:17:20 -0200 From: kraftwerk@technopop.com.br Subject: (kw) Technopop.com.br (old dante.eti.br) Guys, ftp://ftp.dante.eti.br is in new address ftp://ftp.technopop.com.br (arriving in 36GB of available material.. almost 1000 files) Experimental web site can be find in http://kraftwerk.technopop.com.br (we are working hard to finish) Tks to all that it has collaborated with new files and comments. Dante. PS: old addresses ftp://ftp.dante.eti.br and http://kraftwerk.dante.eti.br still works fine. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:02:15 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: (kw) what kind of kw live album would you prefer? hi fellows! i've questioned myself for some time, what kind of live album i would prefer, if kw would *ever* decide to release something like that! a) just a 1 to 1 version of their "current" (note: world tour 1998 ;) set list, recorded "live" at the kling klang studio, without any crowd noise in between, which is very obviously on their harddrives already, because they take the complete studio on tour! ;) b) a version with "artificial" crowd noise, mixed into the studio tracks? c) a "real" live version from one of their last concerts, but without the crowd noise? d) a "real" live version from one of their last concerts, with *all* the crowd noise etc.? what version would you prefer then? - - der d0ppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:22:17 -0000 From: "John Shilcock" Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:36:51 +0100 Rob wrote "P.S. John Shilcock, what do you think on the idea that Kraftwerk always wanted "Autobahn" to be "album length"? Not just side A? This thread is the first time I have even thought of that notion. If I hadn't mentioned that I'd heard a 40 minute version of Autobahn then it probably would never have been contemplated in here. If you want me to GUESS... then I would say no... I don't think they wanted a double sided Autobahn. If they did, surely it would have been released??... I THINK that those early 1974 / 75 live versions are just them having a good time and getting a bit carried away! *he he* Keep Werking John www.keepwerking.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:31:08 -0000 From: "John Shilcock" Subject: Re: (kw) what kind of kw live album would you prefer? I'd prefer a live concert WITH some audience noise. I've several concerts which appear to come straight from the mixing desk and have very little or no audience at all... I think these recordings lack 'soul'. I'd prefer this to a 'studio live' recording because it would be a little more 'live' i.e. they may twiddle 3 knobs in stead of just 1 ;o) Actually at the end of the day... with the technology that is around... would we know the difference? And more importantly would it make any difference? If an official live CD / LP came out most of us would go out and get it anyway, would we not? Keep Werking John www.keepwerking.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:53:06 +0000 From: "Robert Evans" Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:36:51 +0100 >Did not get the content ... >If I can help you, please get your problem ruckzuck into some simple words. Sorry Dirk, I just meant I am not afraid to disagree with anyone, even your good self. Hope this clears things up. Rob. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:08:29 -0700 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: (kw) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:11:44 +0100 hi fellows! i've questioned myself for some time, what kind of live album i would prefer, if kw would *ever* decide to release something like that! a) just a 1 to 1 version of their "current" (note: world tour 1998 ;) set list, recorded "live" at the kling klang studio, without any crowd noise in between, which is very obviously on their harddrives already, because they take the complete studio on tour! ;) b) a version with "artificial" crowd noise, mixed into the studio tracks? c) a "real" live version from one of their last concerts, but without the crowd noise? d) a "real" live version from one of their last concerts, with *all* the crowd noise etc.? what version would you prefer then? - - der d0ppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:55:06 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) what kind of kw live album would you prefer? > Actually at the end of the day... with the technology that is around... > would we know the difference? most likely not! ;) > And more importantly would it make any difference? somehow yes, because some people still prefer "a clean album" from such a band like kw ... instead of lots of crowd noise that maybe distracts the audible pleasure!? anyway, just a thought...! ;) > If an official live CD / LP came out most of us would go out > and get it anyway, would we not? sure, but that wasn't the question! ;) > Keep Werking nope, neither today nor tomorrow, because i want to enjoy my weekend as y' all should do too by the way! ;) > John > www.keepwerking.co.uk - - der d0ppelgänger :) www.unknown.org ;) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:35:32 +0000 From: "Robert Evans" Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:36:51 +0100 John Shuttlecock wrote: >This thread is the first time I have even thought of that notion. If I >hadn't mentioned that I'd heard a 40 minute version of Autobahn then it >probably would never have been contemplated in here. Think of the notion! It's a bloody good one! (IMHO) >If you want me to GUESS... then I would say no... I don't think they wanted >a double sided Autobahn. If they did, surely it would have been >released??... I THINK that those early 1974 / 75 live versions are just >them >having a good time and getting a bit carried away! *he he* Don't guess..do you reckon the Autobahn album is better off without the noodling on Side B? Rob. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #618 *******************************