From: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com (kraftwerk-digest) To: kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #620 Reply-To: kraftwerk-digest Sender: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes kraftwerk-digest Tuesday, December 18 2001 Volume 02 : Number 620 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:18:37 +0100 From: Georg Jajus Subject: (kw) The mysterious songs from ZKM Der Doppelg=E4nger schrieb: > (...) > well, fact is that i was at the tribal gathering, where they only playe= d > _one_ new song and i was also at the zkm, were they played _three_ new > songs, so i suppose that it must have been in linz, where kw sound-chec= ked > the other "two new songs", because these were the only three concerts b= y kw > in 1997! > > (...) > > sorry eric, but again, i'm _not_talking about what people once _may_ ha= ve > heard, but about an actual evidence for these two sound-checked songs! Hehe, what would you give for a proove ;-)? These 2 songs from the Kraftwerk soundcheck at ZKM definitly _exist_, but the question is _where_ (except Kling Klang) ;-) and in which _quality_. As I heard them both (not at Kling Klang, at my home ;-) ), song #1 I would characterise as, lets say, bit of an ethno-song with trance elements (Robert Miles?), song #2 seem just hard beats with a minimalistic waving melody. Both are instrumental. And I must say I like them. Gruesse aus Wien, Georgie - -- * http://members.blackbox.net/georgie/ * # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:26:59 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:50:57 +0100 > So we need YOUR "seal of approval" to decide whether > Kraftwerk played two other new songs at the sound-check in Linz. for your information: i can _only_ speak for myself, and _i_ want to know it for sure! that's all! make of it what _you_ want, mr. evans! ;) > "Remarkable" is the only word for your statement. > Well, there are other words, but they are unprintable. "remarkable" is also the perfect word to describe your conclusions, mr. evans! :\ > Why should Eric lie? > Why would he THINK that he heard these particular new songs? that's a question that _only_ he can answer! ;) - - der d0ppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:35:38 -0000 From: "John Shilcock" Subject: (kw) Disbelieve I'm sorry that Mr "Doppelg=E4nger" needs 100% proof that some one is tell= ing the truth in here. He has to hear it for himself! This I do not understan= d. I don't need to drink a poison to know that it may kill me... why?... because someone TOLD me.. that's all... I try and have "faith" in those I come across. Which is why I believe (rightly or wrongly) the postings Mr "Doppelg=E4nger" writes AND in those= of most contributors.. The list members, I'm sure, would slam down something that is untrue..errrr or rather 'correct' the mistake ;o) OK, yes if some= one knows the truth! We are quite a diverse group and taken as a whole are rather "knowledgeable" in matters relating to Kraftwerk. Things rarely sl= ip by us all?!? Yes of course there have been many, many hoaxes..and oodles of Chinese whispers. These things change over the years (and I'm going back 20+ year= s sometimes!!) So I always like it when I hear a story from the 'horses' mo= uth (sorry Eric! *he he*) because in a lot of cases isn't this as close to th= e truth as we are going to get? Keep Werking John www.keepwerking.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:39:52 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:50:57 +0100 > So you are saying Doppelganger, that you did not hear > the two other new songs at the ZKM, which you attended. > Therefore, you are implying that you had exclusive access > to the soundcheck at ZKM, and did not hear the two new songs > played at it. oh well ... even more of your "remarkable" conclusions, mr. evans! :\ > Or, more likely, you were in fact not at the soundcheck at all, > just like everyone else. ha! so _how_ can _anybody_ have indeed heard that "two new songs", if _nobody_ was actually at the sound-check, eh? ;) for your information: you contradicted yourself _completely_ with what you just wrote above, mr. evans! :\ > But perhaps I should not argue with esteemed people like you, > who are close friends with Kraftwerk and inform us of inside information. sorry, but all i can do by now is laugh about your completely _ridiculous_ conclusions, mr. evans! :o > I suppose now I am supposed to do all this shit: > > ;/ :) :( **** ^^))(( :%%*(())_slyest grin you can imagine_)))))::: do whatever you like, but please_stop drawing even more completely_ridiculous_conclusions, because it's getting really annoying by now! :o > Rob (who doesn't change his name and assume no-one will notice) - - der d0ppelgänger (who only changed his name, because he simply don't wanted to be bothered any longer by annoying individuals like mr. evans! :\ ) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:38:31 +0000 From: "Robert Evans" Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:50:57 +0100 >for sure! that's all! make of it what _you_ want, mr. evans! ;) You do not seem to think this is my real name, because I happen to share my name with a famous film producer. Believe me, it is my name. I would rather you called me "Rob". > > "Remarkable" is the only word for your statement. > > Well, there are other words, but they are unprintable. > >"remarkable" is also the perfect word to describe your conclusions, mr. >evans! :\ The evidence is now piling up against you so much, so just please accept the truth. By the way, what is your surname Olaf? Rob. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:49:59 -0000 From: "John Shilcock" Subject: (kw) PS It's late... we should all have some hot chocolate and call it a day.. Maybe we could even change the subject now *he he* What about.... errrrrrrrr.... Did any of you know that KW used to play Comet Melody in THREE parts?.. an extra one before the two you know (and love?).... Now... just who's going to believe that? *cheeky big grin* OK OK... I'm going to bed... Keep Werking John www.keepwerking.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:04:25 +0000 From: "Robert Evans" Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:50:57 +0100 Der Doppelganger responded to: > > So you are saying Doppelganger, that you did not hear > > the two other new songs at the ZKM, which you attended. > > Therefore, you are implying that you had exclusive access > > to the soundcheck at ZKM, and did not hear the two new songs > > played at it. > >oh well ... even more of your "remarkable" conclusions, mr. evans! :\ That was not a conclusion. That was "part one" of the possibilities of where "our man in Karlsruhe" actually was. Then he responded to: > > Or, more likely, you were in fact not at the soundcheck at all, > > just like everyone else. > >ha! so _how_ can _anybody_ have indeed heard that "two new songs", if >_nobody_ was actually at the sound-check, eh? ;) >for your information: you contradicted yourself _completely_ with what you >just wrote above, mr. evans! :\ What I say just above is "part two" of where you actually may have been, which is far more likely. Therefore, you did not hear the two other new songs. However, the two other new songs have been heard by Klaus Zaepke and several others AFTER the soundcheck was recorded. So where am I contradicting myself? Der Doppelganger responded to this: > > But perhaps I should not argue with esteemed people like you, > > who are close friends with Kraftwerk and inform us of inside >information. > >sorry, but all i can do by now is laugh about your completely _ridiculous_ >conclusions, mr. evans! :o I am now drawing conclusions, that your arguments are SOOOO final, that anything you have not experienced, surely never happened at all. Maybe you should laugh at yourself instead. Then you wrote: >- der d0ppelgänger (who only changed his name, because he simply don't >wanted to be bothered any longer by annoying individuals like mr. evans! Maybe I am annoying you because you realise you are being corrected. This is not normally my style, I am normally placid, but currently I feel severely provoked by Der Doppelganger. Rob. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:36:12 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) New soundchecked songs > > Re: (kw) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:50:57 +0100 > > We really need better subjects! sorry eric, but nearly everytime i try to answer a posting with a "normal" subject line, it gets rejected by the damned majorfuckwithwhoever program! :o hopefully, this time it gets through to y' all! ;) well, let's wait and see! > Look, I've heard the songs with my own ears. to make this clear once and for all: i _don't_ doubt a single second that you, eric, and lots of other people on this list or wherever else have heard "something new" at the sound-check (wherever), but _what_ gives you the impression that it were actually "two new songs" ... and not just some extended instrument check? that's what i really want to know and therefore i simply need more than _anybody's_ word on here that they've indeed heard "something new"! did you get it ... finally? > I am sorry if you are a strict empiricist, > but events occasionally do occur outside of your experience! that's _not_ the question ... and you know it, eric! ;) > Often in science one must make inferences without direct observation. > In this case, people you know (ie me!) have actually made > a direct observation and have heard the tracks! "the(se) trax" (at a sound-check) are _not_ automatically identic with "two new songs"! that's what i wanted to point out ... all the time! :o > There are many Kraftwerk concerts that have never been recorded. > Are we to assume that the existence of these concerts is nothing > but "hearsay"? well, let me try to explain it again ... maybe more coherently this time(!?): you have heard "something new" at kw a sound-check and therefore you automatically assume that it must be "two new songs"? sorry, but that simply goes way beyond my logic, because "something new" just _isn't_ identically with "two new songs"! so please tell me, _why_ you assume that it were indeed "two new songs" and _not_ just an extended instrument check or something like that, eric ... or whoever else wants to explain this matter!? > Recordings of the event are poor; it was a high-security soundcheck > not open to the public. > They were definitely not stripped down instrumentals. okay, i'll take your word for it, eric! ;) > I said that it could have been "noodling", that's what i also say and believe until i'm proven wrong finally! ;) > but it certainly wasn't re-workings of old music. okay, i'll also take your word for this too, eric! ;) > It was rather "involved", complex techno, but unfortunately > rather unmemorable like Kraftwerk's other new stuff! ... and that goes along with my theory that it wasn't even kw "stuff", but something else instead! for your information: laurent garnier was the main deejay at the zkm concert's "after show" ... and he also did a sound-check! ;) guess what? maybe it was just "something new" from one of his dats that he always takes along to such gigs to do his sound-check!? ;) see what i mean ... finally? ;) > They were not so stripped down that it could be testing patches > or anything like that. They were real songs. ... but maybe _not_ by kw, but by mr. garnier instead!? ;) > The real question is whether they were composed or improvised... yep! that's most definitely "the real question"! ;) > My impression was composed, but unfortunately I wasn't with them > in Kling Klang to confirm that! I do know this: not all > that much is improvised during their 90's concerts! so the other really interesting and important question is: have kw _ever_ not played something live (after 1976) that they've "sound-checked" at any of their concerts? to tell you the truth: i really don't have the slightest clue about it! :o > In any case, I really hope someone else here can confirm what I'm saying. me too! ;) > In the past ("when this list was good" -- when new information was > frequently uncovered, and people actually wanted to discuss > unresolved Kraftwerk issues instead of off-topic electronic bands, > semantics, and other boring stuff!), there were a number of individuals > on the list who were very interested in this kind of thing. why not start to discuss such topics again, for those of us, who weren't there ... in the "good old days" of this list? ;) anyway, i really do believe what you say, eric, but please keep this in mind, mate: "reality as a whole is only made of all the little 'realities' in our minds, so we're all just a tiny little part of the whole puzzle called humanity!" - oh jay wan kenobi ... a.k.a. der d0ppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:51:32 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) Disbelieve? ... or maybe just a different perception? ;) > I'm sorry that Mr "Doppelgänger" needs 100% proof > that some one is telling the truth in here. nah ... i don't need a proof for _anybody_ telling the truth or lying here, but i just want to finally _hear_ the evidence for the existence of these "two new songs" for my humble self! ;) is that really too much to ask, mate? ;) > He has to hear it for himself! yes! ;) that's what i really want! > This I do not understand. why that? :o are these "two new songs" so bad that nobody should listen to them!? ;) is that maybe the reason, why kw have - supposedly! ;) - only played them at a few sound-checks? ;) > I don't need to drink a poison to know that it may kill me... why?... > because someone TOLD me.. that's all... that's logical, john! ;) but in "the strange world of kw and their fan(atic)s" it's not always _that_ clear, what is "for real" and what not! :o just take all the numerous speculations about "the new album" for example! ;) > Things rarely slip by us all?!? the exception just proves the rule ... or how is this idiom rightly translated into english? :o > Yes of course there have been many, many hoaxes.. damned right, mate! :\ > So I always like it when I hear a story from the 'horses' mouth > (sorry Eric! *he he*) because in a lot of cases isn't this as close to > the truth as we are going to get? most likely, john! ;) - - der d0ppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:58:59 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) PS > It's late... we should all have some hot chocolate and call it a day.. well, i prefer a cup of cappuccino instead ... if you don't mind, john? ;) > Maybe we could even change the subject now *he he* What about.... > errrrrrrrr.... Did any of you know that KW used to play Comet Melody > in THREE parts?.. an extra one before the two you know (and love?).... erm ... yes, i do know that ... by now! ;) thanks to a friendly guy called john shilcock! oops! ;) > Now... just who's going to believe that? *cheeky big grin* i do believe that, john ... because i have actually heard it! ;) > OK OK... I'm going to bed... me too ... if the bug (mr. evans ;) don't bites me again! ;) - - der d0ppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:19:30 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) mr. evans always likes to play, but ... ... really hates it, when he's going to lose! :\ that's a really bad habit of you, rob! :o > You do not seem to think this is my real name, > because I happen to share my name with a famous film producer. so what? :o i don't fucking care, how you are called in real life or not, because names doesn't matter to me ... the character of a personality does! > Believe me, it is my name. just like i've said above: i really _don't_ care at all, what your real name is or not! > I would rather you called me "Rob". okay, if you'll refrain from calling me "olaf", rob! ;) > The evidence is now piling up against you so much, > so just please accept the truth. i'm really sorry, but there simply _isn't_ a single bit of "evidence" more than before this silly discussion was started! :o just give me an audible proof for it ... and i'll _immediately_ shut up! ;) by the way, "the truth" is still "somewhere out there", but _not_ any of your words has shown me that you know more than i do, mr. evans ... err ... rob! ;) > By the way, what is your surname Olaf? go and find it out for yourself, because i surely _won't_tell you! ;) - - der d0ppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:47:54 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) late at night this whole discussion becomes rather ridiculous! :o > That was not a conclusion. That was "part one" of the possibilities > of where "our man in Karlsruhe" actually was. well, for me it was "part one" of a rather ridiculous conclusion! :o nothing more nor less than this! period! > What I say just above is "part two" of where you actually may have been, > which is far more likely. blah blah blah ... "part two" ... blah blah blah ... of the very same ridiculous conclusion! :o > Therefore, you did not hear the two other new songs. yawn! :o it's getting really tiresome by now, while i'm still waiting for a_real_proof in form of an audible evidence like an mp3 file for example! :\ > However, the two other new songs have been heard > by Klaus Zaepke and several others AFTER the soundcheck > was recorded. "have been heard ... AFTER the sound-check was recorded"?????????? :o what the heck of a plain nonsense is this now, eh????? :o were they a) part of the sound-check, or b) part of the concert, or c) a mere "myth" by "someone", who said that he or she has heard "something somewhere"????? :o you finally have to decide, _what_ you think it was, before you contradict and therefore _ridicule_ yourself even more, rob! :\ so was it a) b) or c), rob????? that's a very simple question, isn't it? ;) > So where am I contradicting myself? in nearly _everything_ that you've written here so far! :\ > I am now drawing conclusions, that your arguments are SOOOO final, > that anything you have not experienced, surely never happened at all. please do me a great favor, rob, and _stop_ fussing around and instead of it, present me an aubible evidence and i won't bother you nor anybody else on this list with this topic any longer! it's really _that_ simple in the end! ;) > Maybe you should laugh at yourself instead. well, i really laugh about all those people, who take this whole nonsense so damned serious that their ears start to bleed by now! ;) > Maybe I am annoying you because you realise you are being corrected. only for your information: a jerk like you simply cannot "correct" _anybody_ on this list ... as lots of previous threads have proven here already before! ;) > This is not normally my style, I am normally placid, what? :o "placid"????? :o for me, your nothing short of a _troublemaker_ , my "friend"! :o so _please_ keep your "wisdom" to your humble self next time, okay!? > but currently I feel severely provoked by Der Doppelganger. stop talking nonsense, rob, and i'll leave you alone! ;) that's a promise! ;) good night! :) - - der d0ppelgänger :) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:33:33 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: Re: (kw) what kind of kw live album would you prefer? mr. evans wrote: > Kraftwerk played a total of FIVE new songs in 1997. well, this assumption is _not_ based on any facts, but _only_ on hearsay! > Three were played in conventional concerts, that's indeed right! > and two others were played at sound-checks. and this is something that i highly doubt, simply because we have absolutely _no_ real evidence for it! :\ "someone" once said this, but there's _no_ bootleg with these recordings on it, as far as i know and _nobody_ has actually _seen_ kw performing these "mysterious" 2 songs at sound-checks! :o anyway, as long as i don't have the chance to listen to at least a bit of these sound-checked songs, no matter in what quality soever, i still insist that they simply _don't_ exist! so give me a proof, mr. evans or whoever and i'll believe you! ;) > And then of course, there is Expo 2000. That makes six songs, 4 songs (incl. "expo 2000") for me, anyway! ;) > I know for a fact that the "new songs" were recorded before > the 1997 concerts, by the way, the "tribal" (or whatever it is called elsewhere) song was originally even supposed to be on the "the end of violence" soundtrack to the wim wenders movie, but wasn't finished in time! :o > Rob (bemused Kraftwerk fan). - - der d0ppelgänger (just another kwf ;) p.s.: this is also another reposting! :\ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:36:17 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Der_Doppelg=E4nger?= Subject: (kw) important notice: forbidden_words on majordomo program-based mailing lists! hi y' all! after some of us have unsuccessfully tried to sent an almost identical test message like the one that i've sent some days ago and none of these messages showed up on the list by now, it's sure to assume that the followings words below, written in that specifical way and maybe also in one line were (mis)interpreted by the majordomo program as commands and _not_ as a simple part of the message: *o-n*, *o-f-f*, "w-r-o-n-g", "f-a-l-s-e", "r-i-g-h-t", "t-r-u-e" and the word "v-i-r-u-s" in the subject line! if you leave out the minus signs between the letters and send a message with those words in * or " signs, you'll most likely _never_ see them appear on _any_ majordomo program-based list again! :o so please be aware of this problem in the future, fellows! thanks for reading and for heeding in future messages! - - der d0ppelgänger p.s.: ... and again: another reposting! :\ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:22:11 -0800 From: JT Subject: (kw) Re: Kraftwerk Soundchecks > > and this is something that i highly doubt, simply because we have absolutely > > _no_ real evidence for it! :\ > > "someone" once said this, but there's _no_ bootleg with these recordings on > > it, as far as i know and _nobody_ has actually _seen_ kw performing these > > "mysterious" 2 songs at sound-checks! :o > > anyway, as long as i don't have the chance to listen to at least a bit of > > these sound-checked songs, no matter in what quality soever, i still insist > > that they simply _don't_ exist! > > so give me a proof, mr. evans or whoever and i'll believe you! ;) > > Is this evidence good enough for you? > > 1) Klaus Zaepke, and several other kwml members (circa 97) heard the tracks > live, or heard about them through a friend. > > 2) Poor recordings DO exist, but "good luck" tracking them down! > > 3) In 1999, a (now outdated) link to mp3s of the soundcheck songs was posted > to the list by Klaus. > > 4) I myself have heard these new tracks, but it was very long ago, and I > can't remember what they sound like! (I wish I had gotten a copy.) > > In any case, they exist, and they are different from the other 3 "new" (5 > years old) songs. Whether they were meant to be true songs or just some > soundcheck noodling is another matter > Hello all! I have been following the list off and on regularly yet have been satisfied in the role of spectator. Yet, since a thread has appeared on which I may offer some data, I have decided to contribute. Thus, to fuel the discussion on the Kraftwerk sound check "songs" further, I have *temporarily* posted the two sound check MP3's to the following location on my web site: http://www.efofex.net/_kwsc/ Note: I was not present at these sound checks - the files were provided to me by a friend shortly after the ZKM concert. Of course, I cannot confirm nor deny if the music heard on these files are indeed Kraftwerk songs or merely something else that just happened to be played over the sound system at the time. To my recollection, these recordings were made from outside the building (perhaps someone can confirm this for me), thus the very poor sound quality. The files are provided in hopes of triggering a meaningful debate over the musical content therein and why it may or may not resemble Kraftwerk material. Have fun. :-) Again, these files will only remain online for a day or so after which they shall be removed. Kindest regards, - -John Efofex - Sound of Electronics http://www.efofex.net/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:18:48 +0100 From: "Per-Olof Karlsson" Subject: RE: (kw) Re: Kraftwerk Soundchecks ..."Thus, to fuel the discussion on the Kraftwerk sound check "songs" further, I have *temporarily* posted the two sound check MP3's to the following location on my web site: http://www.efofex.net/_kwsc/" I did some listening, and came to these conclusions: File #1 - ------- I'm willing to bet large sums of money on this one - this is NOT Kraftwerk.. Sounds like some house stuff, probably played by Laurent Garnier as someone suggested earlier. If you tune in at around the 2-minute mark, you'll even hear a female singer... File #2 - ------- This file is a bit harder, but really, there is not a single sound in this file that would suggest it's a Kraftwerk tune. The rhythm is pretty standard techno stuff as well, further fuelling the idea of this being some song off Laurent Garnier's set. Not that I'm the authority on what is Kraftwerk or not, but really, this just isn't. Cheers, Peo # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:56:57 -0500 From: Eric Gartner Subject: Re: (kw) Re: Kraftwerk Soundchecks > Not that I'm the authority on what is Kraftwerk or not, but really, this > just isn't. I am not sure how soundchecks work, but would it be plausible for Kraftwerk to test "Die Mensch Maschine", immediately give the stage over to Laurent Garnier, immediately re-take the stage for "Autobahn" (which you can hear in the clip), hand the stage back over to Garnier, and then come back to play two more songs? I am not trying to be wise; I'm simply asking if Kraftwerk does things that way, because I don't know. Also, are you sure that is a female voice? I agree that there is a voice, but the gender, language, and word are indecipherable to me. - -Eric # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:18:10 +0100 From: "Per-Olof Karlsson" Subject: RE: (kw) Re: Kraftwerk Soundchecks Eric wrote: "I am not sure how soundchecks work, but would it be plausible for Kraftwerk to test "Die Mensch Maschine", immediately give the stage over to Laurent Garnier, immediately re-take the stage for "Autobahn" (which you can hear in the clip), hand the stage back over to Garnier, and then come back to play two more songs?" Hmm, where did this info come from? Do we know for a *fact* that KW did play Die Mensch Maschine just before clip #1 ? Also, I cannot hear anything of Autobahn in clip #2 - where do you hear this? And as far as soundchecks go, I don't think there's a rule book on that :) For all we know, perhaps Laurent were jamming with Ralf and Florian? That isn't such a far-fetched idea after all, considering KW's huge interest and knowledge of the dance scene. "I am not trying to be wise; I'm simply asking if Kraftwerk does things that way, because I don't know." I know :) I'm just curious myself! "Also, are you sure that is a female voice? I agree that there is a voice, but the gender, language, and word are indecipherable to me." Pretty sure. I'm quite familiar with this kind of music, and in 12 cases out of 10, there is a female backing voice going "yeah" or something similar. Cheers, Peo # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:37:57 +0100 From: Kadmark Mats Subject: (kw) ZKM Soundcheck proof?! Hi! I was at the ZKM concert (but unfortunately missed the soundcheck). Anyway, I did a search in Yahoo! for +kraftwerk +soundcheck +zkm and found three related pages, the Aktivit=E4t page, Georgie's Homepage about Kraftwerk with a review of the Linz and ZKM concerts. He also claims there were two new songs in the soundcheck: "Goes KRAFTWERK Drum 'n' Bass? Beim Soundcheck des zwei Tage sp=E4ter stattfindenden KRAFTWERK-Konzerts im Karlsruher ZKM wurden zwei weitere neue, vom Stil her jedenfalls =E4hnliche Songs gespielt. " However the most interesting link perhaps was this one: http://www.kraftworld.hpg.ig.com.br/discog/bootlegs-p.html ...scroll down and find this bootleg: 1997.10.18 ZKM, Karlsruhe, Germany (Soundcheck) 13:00 (CD-R) man machine - unknown song - autobahn - unknown song 2 - radioactivity ....would be interesting to listen to those unknown songs ! Also, John Shilcock, would be very interesting to hear those 70s = bootlegs of yours!!!!!! Greetings from Sweden! Mats # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:41:50 +0100 From: "Arnaud de Bonald" Subject: Re: (kw) Kraftwerk's 5 songs On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:42:09 +0000, Robert Evans wrote: >Do you think there would be bootlegs of sound-checks? sure, for example the "Heute abend" 2CD set. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:40:48 +0100 From: "Arnaud de Bonald" Subject: Re: (kw) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:51:49 +0100 I hope the Majordomo won't start to filter the Kraftwerk name.... Or maybe this list could become very quiet :-) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:14:16 +0000 From: "Robert Evans" Subject: (kw) Will peace break out? Good morning Amongst the 9 e-mails that Der Doppelganger posted after I went to bed, there were some ramblings about me being a "trouble-maker", and a "jerk". This language is not helpful. I do not recall calling Der Doppelganger anything. I merely expressed my view, with a little bit of anger, and a little bit of humour. If any other people think I am out to make trouble, please feel free to tell me. I hope people do not confuse my willingness to use humour with an attempt to cause trouble to other list-members. your friend Rob. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:24:34 +0000 From: "Robert Evans" Subject: RE: (kw) Re: Kraftwerk Soundchecks >I'm willing to bet large sums of money on this one - this is NOT >Kraftwerk.. Sounds like some house stuff When I heard for the first time, the three new tracks at the ZKM concert (that we all agree exist), I thought: "This does not sound like Kraftwerk". Rob. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:04:34 +0000 From: Kevin Busby Subject: Re: (kw) Re: Kraftwerk Soundchecks JT wrote: > http://www.efofex.net/_kwsc/ > >Note: I was not present at these sound checks - the files were >provided to me by a friend shortly after the ZKM concert. Of course, >I cannot confirm nor deny if the music heard on these files are >indeed Kraftwerk songs or merely something else that just happened >to be played over the sound system at the time. To my recollection, >these recordings were made from outside the building (perhaps >someone can confirm this for me), Thanks John! I remember these from when they were last on the Web: I remember reading that the recordings were made outside the building, and they do sound pretty muffled! Per-Olof Karlsson wrote: >Not that I'm the authority on what is Kraftwerk or not, but really, this >just isn't. FWIW, I agree with your comments. My "gut reaction" when I first heard the MP3s a few years ago was that there was no way this was Kraftwerk, and if we're tempted to think otherwise now, that's perhaps grasping at straws. This sounds like the sort of music Kraftwerk might like, and only very slightly the sort of thing they might want to do. I could well be mistaken. But whoever is right, what a sad situation: people getting into a holy war over whether some muffled sounds from inside a building years ago might indicate two "new" tracks! Face it everyone, no matter how little work they've done in Kling Klang in recent years, there must be quite a lot of things on tape that we would love to hear, whether they be "songs" or "sketches" (or "jokes old and new" :-) ) or whatever. There must be enough material for a new album. I don't think a lack of "songs" is what's holding back a new release. K - -- # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info kraftwerk" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email kraftwerk@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Other questions? Read the FAQ: http://web.bham.ac.uk/busbykg/kraftwerk/FAQ/ ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #620 *******************************