From: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com (kraftwerk Digest) To: kraftwerk-digest@xmission.com Subject: kraftwerk Digest V3 #117 Reply-To: kraftwerk@xmission.com Sender: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com Precedence: kraftwerk Digest Tuesday, August 5 1997 Volume 03 : Number 117 In this issue: Re: (kw) Kraftwerk CD "Lebendige Menschen" 4 sale Re: (kw) Karlsruhe gig - list update. Re: (kw) Which Songs? Re: (kw) Which Songs? (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) (kw) spanish magazines Re: (kw) Which Songs? Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) Re: (kw) Which Songs? RE: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) (kw) Apologies Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) (kw) Krautrocksampler (kw) Answer from EMI ! Re: (kw) Answer from EMI ! [none] Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) (kw) Another version of The Model (kw) New Delhi? (kw) '1997' Re: (kw) Another version of The Model Re: (kw) '1997' Re: (kw) '1997' Re: (kw) '1997' Re: (kw) '1997' Re: (kw) '1997' Re: (kw) '1997' Re: (kw) New Delhi? (kw) KW: MP3 files Re: (kw) KW: MP3 files (kw) My memories (was : 1973 Paris concert + old TV shows) - very long ! See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the kraftwerk or kraftwerk-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 20:49:09 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: Re: (kw) Kraftwerk CD "Lebendige Menschen" 4 sale "Scott M. Barnhill" wrote: >Since this recording was made direct from the soundboard, I assume >that means this recording of 'Numbers' and 'Computer World' from the = Tribal >Gathering is at the normal playing speed and is not slowed down like it = was >on BBC Radio1, right? Just curious. I doubt it Scott. the tracks are the same tracks as broadcast by the BBC, thus, I suspect that they ARE the BBC tracks. As for the speed, I would hope that _somebody_ has the intelligence to actually speed up numbers/computer world this time. ciao, - ------------------------------------ Jules Seifert The Voice of Energy!! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:17:36 +0200 From: Morten Moen Subject: Re: (kw) Karlsruhe gig - list update. Hi! Here is an update of the "meeting-people-list" : Carsten Bolte DepecheCBI@aol.com Dirk Fellhauer D.Fellhauer@Fh-Worms.de Roland Metzger Roland_Metzger@compuserve.com Leon Mols Imols@pi.net Adam (L) Read adamr@world.net Dennis Berggren dennis@octoprod.se Josef Gabler josefgabler@magnet.at Erik Barth dbarth@xs4all.nl Harald Westphal unhj@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de Bas van Reeuwijk W.B.vanReeuwijk@research.kpn.com Oliver Hebel olihebel@hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de Morten Moen mmoen@sn.no everybody who will be in Karlsruhe and wants a meeting: please put your name in ! Carsten Bolte. Kiel. it's more fun to compute! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 23:42:27 +0200 From: lbo Subject: Re: (kw) Which Songs? >I'll second that one! It's about time we heard some of the non-mix do I remember right that they semi-officially said that they don't want to play them anymore or so? # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 17:51:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Scott M. Barnhill" Subject: Re: (kw) Which Songs? >>I'll second that one! It's about time we heard some of the non-mix > >do I remember right that they semi-officially said that they don't want to >play them anymore or so? I heard that they said something to the effect that they discount the early material (everything prior to 'Autobahn') as being just an experiment which eventually led up to their actual Kraftwerk sound. If that's true it's a shame indeed, as I for one am a huge fan of their early work. "Megaherz", "Kristallo", "Tongebirge", and "Ruckzuck" are easily among my very favorite KW tracks not to mention...oh hell, the list is too long! :-) - -- Scott M. Barnhill nebulous@erols.com "Ananas Symphonie...Ananas Symphonie..." # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:37:15 +0600 From: resin@tuna.net Subject: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) LAWRENCE, Kans. (Reuter) - Beat generation writer William S. Burroughs, the counterculture author best known for the novel ''Naked Lunch'' based on his experiences as a drug addict, died Saturday at the age of 83. Burroughs died at Lawrence Memorial Hospital a day after suffering a heart attack, said Ira Silverberg, New York-based editor-in-chief of Grove Press, which published several of his books. Along with the poet Allen Ginsberg and other writers such as Jack Kerouac and Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Burroughs, came to embody the bohemian, anti-establishment beat generation literary movement. Ginsberg died in April in New York. Burroughs was admitted to the hospital Friday after suffering a heart attack, Silverberg said. ``It was sudden. He was in fine health,'' Silverberg said. The controversial Burroughs was openly homosexual, spent years as a drug addict and accidentally killed his wife. In later years, he achieved cult status among a generation of disaffected middle-class youth. Novelist Norman Mailer called Burroughs ``the only American writer living today who may conceivably be possessed by genius.'' Burroughs had lived in with his cats in the college town of Lawrence since December, 1981. He stopped smoking six years ago after triple-bypass heart surgery. Grove Press just last week completed an as-yet untitled manuscript of Burroughs's previously published writings. Silverberg said the collection was due to be released in 1998. Burroughs was born Feb. 5, 1914, in St. Louis. His grandfather founded the Borroughs adding machine company. Borroughs was educated in private schools and graduated from Harvard University. His many jobs included stints as a private detective and an insect exterminator. While living in Mexico City in 1951, he accidentally killed his wife, Joan Vollmer, while trying to shoot a glass off of her head. He said later that her death drove him to write. His first book ``Junkie,'' published in 1953 under the pseudonym William Lee, is an autobiographical account of his experiences as a drug addict. Burrough's fame, however, was built on the celebrated novel ``Naked Lunch,'' written while the author was living in Tangier, Morocco and first published in Paris in 1959. The book was banned in the United States until 1962, when it won a landmark anti-censorship Supreme Court decision. Among his other books were ``The Wild Boys,'' ``Cities of the Red Night,'' and ``Tornado Alley.'' Burroughs also was a photographer, and had produced drawings, paintings and sculpture. Burroughs once commented that ``my entire life has been a struggle to resist the dark force,'' which he defined as the worst aspects of himself. In an interview with The New York Times late last year, Burroughs said he made notes every day but no longer wrote formally. ``I guess I've run out of things to say,'' he said. Burroughs enjoyed a revival in recent years, and collaborated with rock musicians. ``Naked Lunch'' was made into a film in 1991. A tribute to Burroughs was held last November at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, and featured appearances by rock artists Michael Stipe of R.E.M. and former Blondie lead singer Deborah Harry. More recently, Burroughs made a cameo appearance in the rock video for U2's ``Last Night on Earth,'' which was shot in May in Kansas City, Mo. Last year, the Spencer Museum of Art in Lawrence held a retrospective of Burroughs's artworks, called ``Ports of Entry.'' Burrough's son, William, died in 1981. all terrain sound nyc. http://www.tuna.net/resin # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 05:17:40 +0200 From: "Rafa" Subject: (kw) spanish magazines Hello all , Today I bought the FUTURE MUSIC (spanish edition) and ROCK De LUX (a pop music magazine). In FM nothing is new for us is only a translation of original article (english?) with some nice pictures. Two comments about this article... 1. Writer tell that Wolfan Fluer played with Kraftwerk in the Tribal Gathering... I don=B4t belive this but what about... do u know something about other t= wo Kraftwerk member for this concert??? 2.In a little discography that accompany this article, told that in 1983 unreleased Technopop album was announced in many germand=20 magazine covers... Anybody saw these annoucements?=20 Well, in ROCK De LUX magazine, there are a little article about Tribal Gathering and related the Kraftwerk show like the principal event in the festival... There are a photo that I=B4ll posted and a little words o= f=20 Jarvis Cocker (Pulp) about the group. Besides in the same magazine=20 there are a interview with Juan Atkins where he comments the great influence of KW in his music and he is waiting for new album. I=B4ll post this information here http://www.arrakis.es/~deckard Regards. Rafa deckard@arrakis.es # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 08:26:43 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: Re: (kw) Which Songs? Scott M. Barnhill wrote: >I heard that they said something to the effect that they discount >the early material (everything prior to 'Autobahn') as being just an >experiment which eventually led up to their actual Kraftwerk sound. If >that's true it's a shame indeed, as I for one am a huge fan of their = early >work. "Megaherz", "Kristallo", "Tongebirge", and "Ruckzuck" are easily >among my very favorite KW tracks not to mention...oh hell, the list is = too >long! :-) Thank you scott. Yes, the early KW tracks are, IMHO, underrated in that KW do not recognise them. Plus, their selectivity when composing live sets quite astounds me. If they consider anything before Autobahn as experimentation, what the hell does that say about their entire career. I was under the impression that experimentation was the name of their game! Anyway, there are some _great_ tracks on the Radioactivity Album, plus, I think cometmelody would sound awesome and tres anthemic live. Sticking to the mix doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned. ciao, - -------------------------------------------- Jules Seifert 'The Voice of Energy' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 09:28:22 +0000 From: "Craig Land" Subject: Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) Sorry people I have to say this, "What a load of old bollocks"! A gay, murderous drug addict who is anti-establishment? And we wonder why our youth is so troubled today with influences like that around. If you ask me, people like that are not heroes, just wimps who are frightened to live in the real World and battle through life's problems like the rest of us mortals have to. Best Regards, Craig. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 04:59:28 +0600 From: Daneel Olivaw Subject: Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) >Sorry people I have to say this, "What a load of old bollocks"! > >A gay, murderous drug addict who is anti-establishment? And we >wonder why our youth is so troubled today with influences like that >around. > >If you ask me, people like that are not heroes, just wimps who are >frightened to live in the real World and battle through life's >problems like the rest of us mortals have to. >Best Regards, > >Craig. Thank you for the flame-bait. I'm looking forward to several weeks worth of useless crap coming into my mailbox via the kraftwerk mailing list. Emmett # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:01:18 +0200 From: Georg.Jajus@blackbox.at (Georg Jajus) Subject: Re: (kw) Which Songs? alpezi@zilli.priv.at,Internet writes: >...also Computerwelt, and the best thing is: >LOTS OF GERMAN LYRICS >...denn Zeit ist Geld... >this specially is missing in the English Lyrics, which I fully >understand,think about:"Computerworld, Computerworld, because Time is >Money" MEGA ROTFL! But they changed the lyrics from 'Computerworld' at the '91-'The Mix Tour'...at the '81-Tour they sung: 'Interpol and Deutsche Bank, FBI and Scotland Yard, Interpol and Deutsche Bank, FBI and Scotland Yard' and in '91 it was 'Interpol und Deutsche Bank, FBI und Scotland Yard, CIA and KGB controll the data-memory'. >I will hope, that they play some kind of different set, for example, >they should start with Morgenspaziergang, followed by Ohm sweet ohm, >Schaufensterpuppen, Kometenmelodie, Antenna, Neonlicht, Der >Telefonanruf,... and finish with Endlos (till Friday Noon)...... ;-)) I've listened to a Bootleg from 1975, they played a concert with only three songs: 'Ruckzuck', 'Morgenspaziergang' and 'Autobahn' (in a 26-minutes version). Before 'Autobahn' starts, you can hear some pretty strange sounds, and then Ralf says 'Wir m=FCssen nur kurz das hier stimmen...es geht gleich weiter' ant then 'Wir fahren sofort ab'. Back to Linz: I hope they will also wear the stylish green-wireframe dresses from Luton while playing the new song. It looks like it would be from the Beate Uhse-collection...maybe a cybersex-outfit...? Sex object meets 'Music non stop'-video... >Greetings from Muehlviertel Greetings from Floridsdorf (21st district of Vienna) Georgie Chain reaction and mutation, contaminated population... Stop radioactivity! - -------------------------- http://www.kraftwerk.com - --=20 ***********************Black*Box Online Community*********************** * palazzo - die virtuelle Bastelwelt | http://www.blackbox.at/palazzo/ * ************************************************************************ Black*Box FirstClass BBS: +43-1-4073132 (Modem) | http://www.blackbox.at # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:31:10 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ferm=EDn?=" Subject: RE: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) > A gay, murderous drug addict who is anti-establishment? And we > wonder why our youth is so troubled today with influences like that > around. Why do you consider to be gay as a bad influence to "our" [?] youth ? The only bad influence is your homophobic intolerance. Fermin I am sorry- I really don't want a thread of this, but I needed to reply to that. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:53:26 +0000 From: "Craig Land" Subject: (kw) Apologies My previous message concerning views on Homesexuality etc are not to be taken seriously ! Please don't use this list to flame me or reply as it will fill the list with crap which the majority do not want to read, All I will say is that my comments were IMHO, that's all. Aplogies to all who think I will fill their mail boxes with useless info. Craig. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 14:43:00 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) And what about Fela ? And Jeanne Calment ? jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 12:37:11 +0200 From: Thorsten Dowe Subject: Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) Craig Land wrote: > > Sorry people I have to say this, "What a load of old bollocks"! > > A gay, murderous drug addict who is anti-establishment? And we > wonder why our youth is so troubled today with influences like that > around. > > If you ask me, people like that are not heroes, just wimps who are > frightened to live in the real World and battle through life's > problems like the rest of us mortals have to. > Best Regards, > > Craig. Didn't catch the beginning of the discussion, but... Sorry Craig I think you're wrong. People telling about problems in a society aren't the problems of the society. It's always easy to judge people who are different. Maybe you are right if you complain about the anti-establishment statement. But to me it seems a little bit like being afraid of loosing our warm and cousy standard of living. But think, you are in the top 5% of the world. And some people can't deal with that. regards Thorsten # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:08:03 +0100 From: Glen Subject: (kw) Krautrocksampler Julian Cope hosted an evening of Krautrock film footage at the National Film Theatre in London on Friday night. The footage included Kraftwerk's legendary 11 minutes on Germany's The Beat Club from '71 (no Ralf), Can in concert, Amon Duul and Popol Vuh. The Kraftwerk footage was the highlight of the night though there was obviously no definate dress code at this time - the drummer wearing some disgusting hippy frock. I got to wondering when and how exactly the uniformed image came into play and who exactly instigated it? (Thank God they did). - -- Leisure # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:25:28 +0200 From: tim.huber@emimusic.com Subject: (kw) Answer from EMI ! Hello, =20 =20 I sent this mail to EMI Electrola yesterday......and see what answer I=20 got ! ! !=20 =20 (not very surprising, but still .... )=20 - --------------------------------------------------------=20 Mats Kadmark wrote:=20 >> =20 >> Hi!=20 >> =20 >> When is the new Kraftwerk album to be released and what has happened=20 >to=20 >> the release page where all upcoming releases were listed?=20 >> =20 >> Cheers!=20 >> =20 >> Mats=20 >> mats.kadmark@gfs.gu.se=20 >> (My Kraftwerk Page:www.student.gu.se/~maka0067)=20 =20 Dear Mats,=20 =20 we do not know when the new Kraftwerk Album will be relaeased.=20 =20 Best regards=20 =20 Tim Huber=20 EMI Electrola=20 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:22:53 +0200 From: Mats.Kadmark@gfs.gu.se (Mats Kadmark) Subject: Re: (kw) Answer from EMI ! The previous mail was of course from me and not from Tim Huber....=20 =20 Don't send your replies to this Tim....=20 =20 Mats=20 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Aug 97 12:47:28 From: "POOLTON, Richard" Subject: [none] Yeah, and if any human could be properly called a ROBOT, it's Jan Ullrich, the guy truly is a cycling automaton. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: (kw) Are KW Excited? From: cland@acl.memec.com X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) at INTERNET-UUCP Date: 30/7/97 22:25 I wonder if KW are now excited that a German has won the Tour De France?! Maybe we could be in for some '97 remixes of Tdf............ Best Regards, Craig. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:00:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Ultravox5@aol.com Subject: Re: (kw) off topic (r.i.p. W.S.) In a message dated 97-08-04 04:33:54 EDT, cland@acl.memec.com (Craig Land) writes: << Sorry people I have to say this, "What a load of old bollocks"! A gay, murderous drug addict who is anti-establishment? And we wonder why our youth is so troubled today with influences like that around. If you ask me, people like that are not heroes, just wimps who are frightened to live in the real World and battle through life's problems like the rest of us mortals have to. Best Regards, Craig. >> Your post is a load of bollocks! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 08:34:47 +0200 From: "Rafa" Subject: (kw) Another version of The Model Hi all, Today I have found by chance (or accident :-) a really bad version (IMHO) of THE MODEL by DJ Der=F3. If you want hurt your inner ear then hear this http://oidrecords.com/RA/model.ram ;-) Rafa. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:22:32 +0000 From: "Klaus Zaepke" Subject: (kw) New Delhi? > From: jbv > > Let's hope they'll go as far as New Delhi, Tokyo & Sydney, just > like in 81. Are you sure about New Delhi? I've always thought that the Bombay gig was their only appearance in India so far. Thanks, Klaus Zaepke # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 08:30:32 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: (kw) '1997' Hi werkians, Browsing through alt.music.kraftwerk on usenet (not many listies posting BTW) there is a message listing all known albums, check the last one! >This is the titles of all of Kraftwerks albums, I know of > >1971 - Kraftwerk *) >1972 - Kraftwerk 2 *) >1973 - Ralf & Florian *) >1974 - Autobahn >1975 - Radioactivity (Radio Aktivit=E4t) >1977 - Trans Europe Express >1978 - Man Machine (Die Mench-Maschine) >1981 - Computer World (Computerwelt) >1986 - Electric Cafe >1991 - The Mix >1997 - "1997" > ????? Most curious........ Come on guys, the newsgroup is open............ ciao, - -------------------------------------------- Jules Seifert 'The Voice of Energy' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:42:58 +0200 From: Mats.Kadmark@gfs.gu.se (Mats Kadmark) Subject: Re: (kw) Another version of The Model deckard@arrakis.es (Rafa),internet writes:=20 =20 >Today I have found by chance (or accident :-) a really=20 >bad version (IMHO) of THE MODEL by DJ Der=F3.=20 http://oidrecords.com/RA/model.ram=20 =20 Kraftwerk goes Macarena ! : )=20 =20 Mats=20 =20 P.S. Even though it was bad, it was quite funny !=20 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 02:44:04 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) '1997' /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~lapierrs * * "The human race knows enough about thinking to prevent it." * - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:59:49 +0000 From: "Craig Land" Subject: Re: (kw) '1997' Has anyone thought to compile a list of unofficial albums, like all the bootlegs that are known to exist? I have seen some of the web sites which include these sorts of lists, but I own a double vinyl album which has not appeared on any list I have seen! I also remember seing a KW vinyl album in 1986 at a record fair, it was =A310. It had no writing on the label, only a plain white sleeve with Kraftwerk in big bold black text across the front. The guy selling it said something about it being a promo for a new album called Techno-Pop, but I didn't believe him or the fact that KW were releasing any new material!!!!!!!! No not really, just having a laugh,............I think it was a live bootleg LP of the 1981 Robots tour. Unfortunately, I had already spent about =A3100 and didn't have any money left to buy it, how sick am I now?!! I can't remember who was compiling the list of KW samples, I think it was probably someone I choose to disagree with even, but I was playing an old Todd Terry tune last night under his pseudonym DMS. It is called 'Don't Stop It' and it uses the Numbers track. There is also King Bee who used Numbers for their track 'Feel the Flow', Cybotron who used various KW samples on their track 'Clear', shall I go on..........? This subject is sooooo large you will have to be careful that your database dosn't get stretch marks! Anyway, I am preparing for my trip to the USA in September and getting a few KW tunes together for some US citizens who have made some requests, this also means that my spare copy of Tour De France promo is now allocated. See ya, Peace off................ Craig. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:05:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) '1997' /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~lapierrs * * "The human race knows enough about thinking to prevent it." * - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:10:32 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: Re: (kw) '1997' Craig Land wrote: > can't remember who was compiling the list of KW samples, I think it=20 >was probably someone I choose to disagree with even, but I was=20 >playing an old Todd Terry tune last night under his pseudonym DMS. =20 >It is called 'Don't Stop It' and it uses the Numbers track. There is=20 >also King Bee who used Numbers for their track 'Feel the Flow',=20 >Cybotron who used various KW samples on their track 'Clear', shall I=20 >go on..........? This subject is sooooo large you will have to be=20 >careful that your database dosn't get stretch marks! > It was me Craig, but as you know, I've been away lately....... It's in the pipeline, although I have other KW things on my plate at the moment. I'm getting a CGI form together for addition of the sample listings, to include hopefully links to web sites containing audio if poss. It'll be a bit like a guestbook I s'pose! > >Anyway, I am preparing for my trip to the USA in September and=20 >getting a few KW tunes together for some US citizens who have made=20 >some requests, this also means that my spare copy of Tour De France=20 >promo is now allocated. > Hey, I'm going to the states in October! Will you still be there, and where? :-)) > We might bump into each other, y'know what with the states being a fairly small country n'that :-)) ciao, - -------------------------------------------- Jules Seifert 'The Voice of Energy' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:16:28 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: Re: (kw) '1997' Ra wrote: >Uh, I am. I don't recall mentioning it on the list, so either there's=20 >someone else also doing it or I have a lousy memory. eh? I was doing that! Oh well, if you want to do it, it's up to you! ciao, - -------------------------------------------- Jules Seifert 'The Voice of Energy' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:51:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) '1997' /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~lapierrs * * "The human race knows enough about thinking to prevent it." * - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:25:52 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) New Delhi? Klaus Zaepke wrote: > > > From: jbv > > > > Let's hope they'll go as far as New Delhi, Tokyo & Sydney, just > > like in 81. > > Are you sure about New Delhi? I've always thought that the Bombay gig > was their only appearance in India so far. > > Thanks, > Klaus Zaepke > Yeah, it was a typo. I meant Bombay. Thanx for correcting me. jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 18:05:36 +1400 From: "Par." Subject: (kw) KW: MP3 files Hi Listers, I wander if there is a FTP site with KW rares tracks in MP3 format. The only MP3 files I've found are those on the "Kraftwerk Infobahr" and also "Tour de France" I don't remember where. But, beside the TG 97 live, there are probably recording of many others concerts, from the 70's in particular. There are also single version like Autobahn that are probably different than the album version. Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 19:01:03 +0200 From: Mats.Kadmark@gfs.gu.se (Mats Kadmark) Subject: Re: (kw) KW: MP3 files bonald@worldnet.fr (Par.),internet writes:=20 =20 >I wander if there is a FTP site with KW rares tracks in MP3 =20 >format.=20 =20 I got the following tracks in mp3 format at my KW-Page (not FTP):=20 =20 Metropolis, live Utrecht 10.12.81=20 Das Modell=20 It's More Fun to Compute, live Tokyo 7.9.81=20 Computerwelt, 12" mix=20 Tour de France (German version), 12" mix=20 Radioaktivit=E4t, 7" Orbit mix ( ' 91)=20 Musique Non Stop, 7" Kevorkian mix=20 =20 >There are also single version like Autobahn that are probably different=20 >than the album version.=20 =20 It is not really different it is just shorter.... they have simply cut=20 it down.=20 =20 Mats=20 =20 (www.student.gu.se/~maka0067) =20 =20 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 23:13:42 +0100 From: jbv Subject: (kw) My memories (was : 1973 Paris concert + old TV shows) - very long ! Last week, Klaus Zaepke wrote: >=20 > > I saw them live for the first time in the suburbs of Paris in 1973. >=20 > Do you remember any details from this concert? If so, how about > writing a short review for the list, please? :-) >=20 > > And when parts of that show were broadcasted on french TV a couple > > of weeks later (on Pop 2 program, I think) on saturday afternoon, >=20 > Also, may I ask if you remember any details from the Kraftwerk part > of this broadcast (length, setlist)? >=20 Oh man ! I feel so old when someone asks me that kind of question.=20 Ok, let=92s see what I can do. I tried to put togther everything I remember about KW in the 70s and 80s + some personal thoughts. I know i'm firing in one shot enough material for 3 months of=20 contributions to the list, but that's the way I am. Regarding possible tracing of KW material in the archives of INA, everybody please let me know your degree of interest to that. Except for Klaus, nobody reacted to the idea, so I wonder if it's worth spending 200 to 300$ on that subject (yes, that's what they'll charge for retrieving the stuff and showing it to me - expensive KW fan masturbation). jbv - -------------------------------------------------- THE CONTEXT OF THE EARLY SEVENTIES At that time, german industrial rock was still a matter of underground culture. Before 1972, most german albums, except for Tangerine Dream and a few others, were quite hard to find (at least in France, and especially in the small city where I used to live, 250 km from Paris). In feb. 73, I was 16. I remember that I had to fight with my parents to be able to go alone to Paris to see a concert of =93musicians with long hair=94. They were scared to death to see their only son travelling alone to the big city for the first time. I finally was able to go, because my birthday is in feb. and I managed to get permission as a birthday present. Anyway. As I said in a previous post, I had bought KW 1st album a couple of years before with my pocket money, among a whole bunch of german rock albums that the big brother of my best friend brought from Paris. You must remember that, at that time, the main attractions were not KW (still quite unknown), but rather bands such as TD, Schulze, Can and Ash Ra Tempel. Amon D=FC=FCl too. The atmosphere was more towards spacey stuf= f and rock with oriental influences than industrial soundscapes. If you check all the long articles released in music mags at that time, you=92ll notice that (in the text and in the discography), KW albums are not listed at the top, and only a few lines are dedicated to the band (some articles even didn=92t mention KW at all !). Furthermore, NEU ! is sometimes mentioned as a more interesting band than KW, may be because they still used drums, bass & guitar, and because the audience was still not ready for pure electronic rythms. Some articles also mentioned KLUSTER (not Cluster), who, in my opinion was the very 1st industrial band. At that time, we were light years away from the collector / worship attitude of this list. Nobody knew that KW would become 20 years later the godfathers of techno. They were just another underground duet. I=92m also quite sure that no picture of the band had been published (at least in France) before the 1973 concert. All articles about Kraut rock featured extensive picts of TD and Can, but also bands like Wallenstein, Floh... which I guess were provided by the marketing divisions of Ohr and Piltz labels (greedy music biz as usual). I=92m sure that all those remarks are nothing new to KW list members, but just for one minute, it=92s interesting to point out the differences between 1973 and today... I remember that my favorite song on KW 1 was =93Von Himmel hoch=94. The description given by Bussy in his book is rather dull (like any of his music descriptions I think). To me it always sounded like the perfect electro-acoustic imitation of american planes dropping bombs over Germany at the end of WW II. I bought the 2nd album along with the 3rd one in spring or summer 74 or so, I=92m not sure. Finally, I would say that I remember that period as a period of shit which I would never live again. May be this feeling is inspired by the boring life I used to live in a boring area of France... Possible. But look : the only program of rock / pop on french TV was Pop 2 (30 to 40 minutes weekly or so), but quite often it was canceled and they showed soccer or rugby instead. And of course, they didn=92t announce anything until 5 minutes before the normal schedule. I tell you : it was a time of disapointments ! THE 1973 PARIS CONCERT As for the gigs : as I said before, lot of people (including me) came more for TD and KS than for the other bands. Therefore, I could not give any track listing, because my attention was not focused on them. Needless to say that the thrill of spending a couple of days alone in Paris with some friends overcame in many ways the festival itself. I was also still young, with very little musical background. Therefore, it was more a raw experience, and all the discussions I can run about it are made from my point of view of today and the experiences accumulated in 25 years. On the other hand, people didn=92t expect a show with songs easy to recognize, but rather an atmospheric approach of the music. CAN had shown the way for a couple of years, regarding live improvised music around some vague structures. Lots of bands in the experimental / underground scene used to have the same approach. The festival took place on Feb. 14 & 15. KW played at the end of day 1. It=92s funny because I remember that it was quite late in the evening, bu= t one of my friends who was there also and came with me to the Z=FCrich sho= w in 91 sweared it took place in the late afternoon. Anyway, I remember that my friends and I were trying to make plans about where to spend the night and how to get back to the center of Paris (it was quite cold & dark outside), because we=92ve been waiting for a guy who never showed up. In 81, i was student in Paris and had a room. In 91, we were able to afford a good hotel in Z=FCrich... Here is what I remember. Ralf still had long hair and glasses, and was wearing leather. As for Florian, I forgot. And for a simple reason : during my last year in high-school, I had a philosophy teacher who was looking almost exactly like Florian. So, everytime I try to remember Florian, the image of this man comes to my mind !=20 They were both sitting in front of their gear and didn=92t move at all. They seemed to communicate by looks only. One of my friends even suggested that they could just play tapes. They were looking pretty much like on the picture at the back of the 3rd album, I guess. But may be did I see that picture so many times that I remember the show like that picture... Bussy says that at that time they used on stage the same =93neon-rope=94 as on that picture, but I don=92t remember anything like = that in Paris. I also remember that the TV crew was constantly on stage around the musicians and using bright spotlights. At that time I was also very deep into electro-acoustic music (GRM etc.) and in the Glass/Reich/Riley school on the other hand. After hearing KW 1st album I used to consider them as an experimental electronic band. But during that show, the music seemed to be linear and hypnotic, much more in the repetitive & melodic style, not so heavily industrial & electronic. That was a big surprise to me. They seemed to hesitate between two musical directions, and none was really convincing, although it was still interesting because of the use of electronic gear on stage. In the =93industrial=94 moments, it was not as heavy and powerful as on t= he album, and when melodic & repetitive, it wasn=92t as dense as Glass or Reich. That=92s also why I never really liked the 3rd album, except perhaps Tanzmusik. At that time I hated Ananas Symphony : to me it was a kind of bad joke, and also I had the feeling they lacked inspiration and put that piece at the end of side 2 only because they had to fill some space on the album. Later, I had warmer feelings towards that piece, mostly because of the first attempt of vocoded sounds. One of the main reasons of disapointment was also that some much more sophisticated works using Moogs and other VC controlled modules had been composed / produced as soon as 1964 at the GRM studio (Parmegiani, etc.). So, in some ways, KW early works give me the impression that they are exploring some directions in which other people had already walked some years ago. Another important and positive thing is that when you listen to most of Kraut rock produced in the early 70s (except for kosmiche musik, of course), you still can hear some bluesy influences (in the riffs or in the guitar / drums sound). KW was the first german band to use binary rythms but who never (I say never) had anything to do with blues or rock. I know that they=92ve been influenced by the german electronic school, but it doesn=92t explain everything. Some members of Can have bee= n studying with Stockhausen and Luigi Nono, but at times some clear blues / rock influences can be heard in their music. The only pop / rock influence that could be found in KW music was perhaps the Beach Boys, and even not before Autobahn ! Actually, the more I think of that period, the more I get convinced that KW never had anything to do with experimentation. On the contrary, they=92ve always been very good at picking up the best of other people=92= s experimentations and melt all those influences together in something unique, which could be described as =93avant garde for the masses with a little bit of sweet pop dressing at the top=94. Furthermore, I even dare to say that if they give very seldom interviews, it=92s because they don=92t have much to say. Or may be they don=92t want to be accused of steeling other people=92s ideas and make so= me money with it. Robert Fripp told me once how surprising and funny it=92s been for him to see other people from another generation building a whole career around a single idea he developped several years ago in one single piece. In some ways, it=92s not so stupid to say that that=92s wha= t KW did in the late 70s / early 80s with a few ideas =93borrowed=94 from people of the previous generation (european electronic avant-garde + Beach Boys harmonies + some expressionist & Gilbert & george influences for the image). Of course, everybody will say that inspiration never pops up from nowhere and that everybody is always inspired by someone else. Yes, but... I also think that their silence and reclusive attitude is only a pure marketing trick. I=92m sure i=92ll get dozens of flames for that one ! But look at what happens on this list around the forthcoming album and some reissues : for a few months, there=92s a big expectation and tons of rumors about possible dates, and lately this message from EMI saying that they don=92t know when all this stuff will be released. It was the same in 81 for CW and in 86 for EC. Back to the 1973 concert : I=92m almost sure they played Ruckzuck and Tanzmuzik, because when I bought albums 2 & 3 several months later, I remember discussing with my friends and everybody was sure we heard those pieces at the gig. I remember also that somewhere in the show, suddenly the music and the light stopped. I thought it was a funny way to end a set. But very soon it appeared that there was power supply problems, and after some long minutes, the show resumed. I read in further interviews (and also in Bussy=92s book) that it was caused by the nearby Renault factory. A couple of times, Ralf said that they had to re-program their rythm-boxes, and he was quite proud and happy to say that their gear and their music had been influenced by the car industry. As far as I remember the loosy atmosphere of that period of time, I think the reason was much more some bad organization and non-sufficient power ressources... I also remember that the place was quite crowded and everybody was smoking (some substances were floating in the air - sorry, no ecstasy at that time) and may be that=92s why it=92s hard to remember things clearly= ... There were announcements made by the organizers or the owners of the theater that smoking was prohibited inside the theater. Actually, at that time, there was always some good reason to try to interrupt or cancel or rock concert... The connection between KW and Steve reich appeared to me again very clearly several years later : once I played =93Music for 18 musicians=94 = and The MIX right after and I was amazed by the similarities in structures, harmonies, etc. Even in the middle of side 1 of EC, when the same melodic pattern is repeated many times with only the instrument changing (some marimba patch from a DX7 I think), Reich=92s influence is huge. Furthermore, could it be some subconscious attitude for R&F to be influenced by someone named Reich ? AS FOR THE POP 2 PROGRAM : I remember it as a patchwork of short excerpts from the concerts, with (between the excerpts of the gigs), excerpts from an interview of french Sci-Fi comix drawer Philippe Druillet and french Sci-Fi writer Michel Demuth (or was it Gerard Klein ?) talking about science-fiction. Once again, the producers of the program, AFAIR, made strong connections between Sci-Fi culture and Kosmische Musik. And the program itself was more structured like a magazine than a concert broadcast. The excerpts of the KW gig showed only the faces of R&F, standing still, with some lights pulsing on them. It was quite strange because the light was quite bright during the show, but I remember that the KW excerpts on TV were almost completely dark except for portions of their faces. AS FOR THE RADIO AIRPLAY OF THE 1976 CONCERT : I remember of 2 or 3 instrumental pieces. One was Kometenmelody, and the other one (I think) Ohm Sweet Ohm. Regarding the 3rd one (which was actually the 1st), I remember it very well but never knew whether it was a standalone piece or a long intro for Kometenmelody : it was basically the sound of church bells (recorded in a street on a sunday morning, I suppose) used through a vocoder. I don=92t remember what the voice said, but the effect was thrilling. I remember listening to that part dozens of times, while the 2 other pieces were quite boring, or at least quite linear and simple. I still regret that the tape had been destroyed. May be the dog was tired of hearing it too many times... Does this description match what=92s known on bootlegs ? I=92ll try to trace this recording at INA. SUMMER 1976 (I think) : There were various shows of pop & experimental music every night on France Musique, the cultural FM national radio program. I don=92t remembe= r whether it was connected to a Radio-Activity tour or anything similar, but I do remember that J-P Lentin (from the french magazine Actuel who also organized the 1973 festival in Paris) was producing a couple of programs. And one night he did a long interview (at least 60 mn, AFAIR) of Ralf & Florian. Everybody was speaking perfect french, of course. Sorry, I didn=92t tape it. Here is only what I remember of it : - - Ralf saying that they had improved their technical facilities and their studio, and could now do all the production at home, from the first takes to the final mix. It was supposed to extend their musical horizons. - - Florian saying that he had thrown away his flute for good and forever, and wanted to design and built new kinds of instruments. - - Ralf saying that they had toured in the US the year before (to promote Autobahn, I guess), and that they used to listen to college radios in the car when driving from one town to the next. And very often college radios played their music. And that thrilled them and gave them the basic idea for Radio-Activity. - - Did anybody hear Florian speaking ? I remember him, during that show, speaking with a very strange voice, quite similar to the vocoded Voice of Energy... I don=92t think he already had a portable speech synthesizer at that time... I think this interview can be traced too. CIRCA 1976 - 77 Everybody remember that Radio-Activity was the generic on a daily radio-show hosted by J-L Laffont on AM station Europe 1. That show used to run from 4.30 to 6.30 PM (or was it 5 to 7 PM ?), and the targeted audience was mainly teenagers. In the studio, there was a public too, and everyday one or two guests who answered the questions of the public. At that time, I was student, but I was also working as a school bus driver. Every afternoon around 5 PM I used to pick up some teenagers and drive them back home. The drive was about 45 mn long and we used to listen to that radio program full blast. I remember that one day, the guests of the show were Ralf & Florian, and they answered the questions in fluent french. I especially remember one question, something like : what music do you listen, or do you know any french band ? And the answer really surprised me : Ralf (I think) said : =93we like ver= y much Heldon and Richard Pinhas who make in France electronic music which is almost as interesting as the music we make in Germany=94. It was at the same time surprising and quite funny, for I=92m 100% sure that no one in the studio (and even among all the listeners) knew who the hell Heldon & Pinhas could be... PARIS CONCERT, JUNE 1981 I already posted something about that gig a few weeks ago, and nobody reacted. That=92s why I wonder whether anyone is interested in my stuff... ZURICH CONCERT, 1991 I found this concert quite disapointing. Except for the robots, there was nothing new compared to the 81 show. The graphics, which were quite exciting in 81, suddenly looked dated (huge pixels, no anti-aliasing, etc...). I think it=92s because they used Barcos, which flatten the images, while in 81 they used huge monitors which displayed crispy graphics. Even the weel-known songs (TEE, etc.) sounded less exciting, mainly because (I think) they just improvised on the basic themes with pre-defined samples, patterns and sequences, which made them sound like any other techno band who don=92t get much out of his gear... And above all, Ralf=92s singing was terrible ! Did anyone already see a KW concert where Ralf was singing in tune ? A couple of years ago, I saw Electric Musik playing 2 songs live on the french-german TV channel ARTE, and the problem was the same : terrible singing. These folks are studio artists, no doubt. The only funny thing in the Z=FCrich show was during Pocket Calculator : = I remember Florian climbing like a monkey at the metallic structure that supports the curtain hiding the Kling Kland studio on stage, in order to offer his pocket instrument to the audience sitting at the balcony... OK. That=92s all until KarlSruhe. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk Digest V3 #117 ******************************* To subscribe to kraftwerk Digest, send the command: subscribe kraftwerk-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". 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