From: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com (kraftwerk Digest) To: kraftwerk-digest@xmission.com Subject: kraftwerk Digest V3 #131 Reply-To: kraftwerk@xmission.com Sender: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: kraftwerk-owner@xmission.com Precedence: kraftwerk Digest Saturday, August 30 1997 Volume 03 : Number 131 In this issue: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. Re: (kw) German : your first lesson (kw) Robotronics (kw) How to (you know what) part2... (kw) Funny how things get scrambled thru the wires... Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. Re: SV: (kw) Classification Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. (kw) Electric Music on Rubayat... Re: SV: (kw) Classification (kw) KRAFTWERK WAV and REAL VIDEO Re: (kw) Do not lean out of the window Re: (kw) Do not lean out of the window (kw) Re : Funny how things get scrambled thru the wires... Re: (kw) German : your first lesson Re: (kw) Do not lean out of the window Re: (kw) Re : Funny how things get scrambled thru the wires... Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. Re: (kw) "Comet '97" award Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. (kw) Karlsruhe gig - list update. (kw) Kraftwerk page Re: (kw) Karlsruhe help Re: SV: (kw) Classification Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. (kw) New album/ curent events (kw) Why a robot ? Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. (kw) Wim Wenders' violence See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the kraftwerk or kraftwerk-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:20:39 +0200 From: Timour.JGENTI@ifp.fr (Timour JGENTI) Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. > Actually, it would be nice to go to the next KW gigs with my own > robot. May be R&F would allow me to plug it into their gear and watch > it move in sync with their own robots... > Do you think I should have to buy another ticket for the robot ? Just let your robot go itself to the gig... and stay at home yourself! ;-) Tim. - -- Timour JGENTI | Institut Francais du Petrole _______________|___________________________________ _______________| timour.jgenti@ifp.fr _______________| http://www.mygale.org/00/timlcf/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:30:08 +0200 From: jss@onestone.de Subject: Re: (kw) German : your first lesson > and BTW, "ruckzug" means "backtrain" :) You don't mean 'Ruckzuck', don't you ? Joerg-Stefan # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:23:18 -0700 From: Rui Inacio Subject: (kw) Robotronics > I was wondering > how much it could cost to design & build robots like KW. It's been a long time dream of mine to have a KW style robot (next to a R2D2 fully working replica), & since a couple of months ago I read a series of articles on PC Format about AI & robotics it has made me wonder. I know there are companies that sell kits of robotic arms & stuff. Maybe we could start there, having a small scale version. As to the R&F heads, well that's more complicated... > Another problem will be the reproduction of > the face (a problem which has nothing to do with robotics). How about a "Showroom dummy"? On another KW related subject I've been also wondering (yeah I did a lot of that during my holidays) that the new album doesn't exist as such & all the fuss has been created by misinterpretation/rumours about the new song. Picture this scenario: - -KW have a song in the new Wim Wenders film & check public reaction - -If reaction is positive enough (as expected/hoped) then it gets released as a single (the "new album" rumours) with some more remixes of old stuff (the "Mix II" rumours) - -If the world goes wild with this then & only then will R&F feel self confident enough to start compiling an album containing the stuff they have been writing over the years which they fear is now outdated. What do you think? Am I nuts? Ralf please say something... Greetings, Rui Inacio # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 05:09:05 +0200 From: "303@iname.com" <303@bigfoot.com> Subject: (kw) How to (you know what) part2... ®0|áÑð †b­ 303@iname.com T‡é Ù|†¡màtë Ðâñçêmª©h¡ñË™ I just remembered... I personally don't give a flying shit what you do with my information on bootlegging, but I strongly recommend everybody NOT to do it EVER! It's illegal!!! And I will not take any responsibilty whatsoever for your actions on any concert! Just had to write it! :-/ You are free to hit [DEL] now! ///CC # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 04:42:49 +0200 From: "303@iname.com" <303@bigfoot.com> Subject: (kw) Funny how things get scrambled thru the wires... ®0|áÑð †b­ 303@iname.com T‡é Ù|†¡màtë Ðâñçêmª©h¡ñË™ Dear jbv - I am no expert in the field of misinterpretation, but have you ever tried a smiley to express your emotions? :o) ...I was just now making a joke... ;-) regards ///Charlie Crash # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:30:15 -0700 From: "ROBOT" Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. - -(JBV says)- > Is there any robotics specialist on this list ? > I hope the subject hasn't been discussed before : I was wondering > how much it could cost to design & build robots like KW. - -!!!!- Hey! Quit stealing my ideas!! -(Only I wanna build ROBOTS of THEM, not myself.)- Seriously, you'll need to have your face "plaster-molded" so a mannequin head can be made in your exact image. Or, maybe an artist can skulpt your likeness. Email me.... Aw, Jeez. Now I suppose just 'cause I'M getting a KRAFTWERK tattoo, EVerybody ELSE wants one, too. - -(I hope it doesn't hurt too much- especially financially!)- :] ROBOSMILEY # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:59:36 +0200 From: Conny Fornbäck Subject: Re: SV: (kw) Classification Lars Bull wrote: > The only thing I can come up with, that has to do with Tuxedomoon, that is > remotely in the vein with industrial music is that Blaine (in one of his > solo efforts) made a track titled "Ralf and Florian on the beach". Wasn't it "Ralf & Florian go Hawaiian"? Or was that just the chorus? Anyhow, it's a funny song, but I heard in an interview that Blaine has a really deep serious meaning about it. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 18:06:10 +0200 From: RoBoten Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. At 08:30 1997-08-29 -0700, ROBOT wrote: >-!!!!- Hey! Quit stealing my ideas!! -(Only I wanna build ROBOTS of THEM, >not myself.)- Seriously, you'll need to have your face "plaster-molded" so >a mannequin head can be made in your exact image. Or, maybe an artist can >skulpt your likeness. Email me.... Is there a kraftwerkian who don't want to build robots!?!? >Aw, Jeez. Now I suppose just 'cause I'M getting a KRAFTWERK tattoo, >EVerybody ELSE wants one, too. Is there a kraftwerkian who don't want a Kraftwerk tattoo!?!? (I want a cone..) We are all robots, and we are programmed to think in the same way.. //RoBoten Comming up on Datorv=E4rld soon: info and audioclips from a swedish kraftwerkish band from the 70's. They invented "Numbers" and "Pocket Calculator" in 1978, Just before= Kraftwerk themselves!!! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 18:56:32 +0200 From: Lars Bull Subject: (kw) Electric Music on Rubayat... Here's a question that's probably been answered before: Is the version of "Baby come back" on the Crosstalk CD-single identical to the one on the Rubayat sampler? I have Crosstalk but haven't heard Rubayat yet. Anyone know? Lars Bull "No RISC - No Fun" MacForum Foreningsgatan 31 411 27 Goteborg Sweden E-Mail: lars.bull@macforum.se WWW: www.macforum.se Fax: +46 31 721 31 01 Telephone: +46 31 721 31 00 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 18:20:59 +0200 From: "Erik Barth" Subject: Re: SV: (kw) Classification Hi list, - ---------- From: Conny Fornb=E4ck Lars Bull wrote: > The only thing I can come up with, that has to do with Tuxedomoon, that is > remotely in the vein with industrial music is that Blaine (in one of hi= s > solo efforts) made a track titled "Ralf and Florian on the beach". Wasn't it "Ralf & Florian go Hawaiian"? Or was that just the chorus? Anyhow, it's a funny song, but I heard in an interview that Blaine has a really deep serious meaning about it. - -> Yes, it is from Blaine L. Reininger: Ralf And Florian Go Hawaiian (Respectfully dedicated to _Rolf_ Hutter and Florian Schneider; Founders = of Kraftwerk) The name of the album is "Byzantium". Label: Les Disques du Crepuscule, T= WI 767 Cheers, Erik # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:04:55 -0300 From: osvaldo@dds.nl Subject: (kw) KRAFTWERK WAV and REAL VIDEO Hi again !! It's me Osvaldo. I know that some of you cannot spend much time on line in Internet so I I converted the full Kraftwerk AVI file (from Kraftwerk Web page) into Real Video. The new format got a size of ONLY 257 Kb (video and sound) against the original of 4422 Kb ! Really a big difference ! Some of you wrote to me asking me to send you the WAV file (thing that I already did). I hope you could listen to it !! I haven't got any answer yet... ??? :-(( Now, I uploaded the TWO files to the URL you will see below. Keep in mind that for playing the WAV file you need the Windows 95 player and for playing the Real Audio (Video) file you'll need the Real Player 4.0 from Real Audio. You can find the two files at: http://www.protegrab.com.ar/kraftwerk Hope you enjoy it !! Let me know if everthing goes well !!! PS= I'm looking for Kraftwerk video clips. Please, someone who helps me to get them !!!! THANKS !! Osvaldo mailto:osvaldo@clearhouse.com.ar # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:57:51 -0700 From: "Phil Fegan" Subject: Re: (kw) Do not lean out of the window I thought you were serious I've just spend a fortune on German lessons to prove I was a KW fan. "merd'! - Oh that's French isn't it. - ---------- > From: jbv > To: kraftwerk@xmission.com > Subject: (kw) Do not lean out of the window > Date: Thursday, August 28, 1997 4:09 PM > > > OK people. It's time to make everything clear and to stop wasting BW : > Did anyone on this list REALLY thought I could be serious when I > posted such stupid statements as : > > > i've always thought that someone who doesn't speak at least some > > german is not a real KW fan. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 19:42:10 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: Re: (kw) Do not lean out of the window "Phil Fegan" wrote: >"merd'! - Oh that's French isn't it. hahaha! funny thing is....I don't remember any German on 'tour de France'=20 :-)) ciao, - ------------------------------------ Jules Seifert The Voice of Energy!! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:44:33 +0100 From: jbv Subject: (kw) Re : Funny how things get scrambled thru the wires... >Dear jbv - I am no expert in the field of misinterpretation, but have >you >ever tried a smiley to express your emotions? :o) I have absolutely no emotion to express... And it's so much fun to mail some stupid crap without any indication of what i really mean ! jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:45:01 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) German : your first lesson jss@onestone.de wrote: > > > and BTW, "ruckzug" means "backtrain" :) > > You don't mean 'Ruckzuck', don't you ? > > Joerg-Stefan > Nein ! Nein ! Was ist denn los ? Ich meine "ruckzug" - das ist ganz klar ! Kapiert ? verstanden ? jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:56:19 +0200 From: Mats.Kadmark@gfs.gu.se (Mats Kadmark) Subject: Re: (kw) Do not lean out of the window =20 >>"merd'! - Oh that's French isn't it.=20 =20 ..=20 =20 >funny thing is....I don't remember any German on 'tour de France' =20 =20 not even on the German version of Tour de France ? :o)=20 =20 Mats=20 =20 (Not much point posting this message, only another silly one)=20 =20 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:15:58 -0700 From: "Phil Fegan" Subject: Re: (kw) Re : Funny how things get scrambled thru the wires... How can a few characters express "I've drunk too much beer and I feel just a little bit sick but I'll probably eat that pizza that's been in the fridge since last week"? - ---------- > >Dear jbv - I am no expert in the field of misinterpretation, but have >you > >ever tried a smiley to express your emotions? :o) > > I have absolutely no emotion to express... > > And it's so much fun to mail some stupid crap without any indication > of what i really mean ! > > jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:23:11 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. First of all, i'd like to thank Ra () for his very clear and very informative message on the robot construction project. I'd like to discuss a few more technical aspects of it. So if other list members find it boring, please let us know and we'll continue privately. I think it's clear I want a robot at my own likeness (just to pretend I'm a KW member, in order to impress teenage girls - but have they ever heard of KW ?). Obviously, sculpting the face will be the more tricky (and perhaps the more expensive) step. ROBOT suggests that I should have my face "plaster-molded",but I have to say that I find this quite disgusting (I'll have to take a shower after - beurk). Does anyone have a clue of what is the best way to go after modeling the face with plaster (what to use to make the face itself, who could take care of it, expenses, etc.) ? I didn't imagine shoulder motors had to be so sturdy. What if arms are made of some light (yet sturdy) plastic ? Why are stepper motors so hard to find ? As for the interpreter, i think I'd go for a more compact solution : using a micro-controller (such as 8031 or 8051) looks like a good solution. I even think that ideas can be stealed from schematics of MIDI-to-CV interfaces. The assembler program shouldn't be too difficult to write. I'm sure there's already some ready-to-use routines on the market, or in magazines for hackers. Finally, according to Ra's estimation, expenses should come to a $1000 - $1500 range, which is less than I expected. Do any other competent list member agree with those figures ? Of course, it doesn't include personal time for R&D (which will be huge), but I view this thing only as a hobby project and a good opportunity to learn something about DIY robotics, and don't plan any industrial production. And of course, once the robot is built, the next question is : how to improve it and make R&F look like pityful has-beens ? Any suggestion is welcome (both silly & serious). As I said before, we have 3 years to kill until the next album, so... jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:42:49 +0100 From: Luca Dassi Subject: Re: (kw) "Comet '97" award Klaus Zaepke wrote: > > Kraftwerk were honoured with the "Branchen-Comet '97" award, > category "Lifetime-Achievement". > VIVA 2 will report about the ceremony next Friday and Saturday (I don't > know the exact time, sorry). Is anyone able to view and/or tape this? > Yes I just finished watching (and taping) it. KW were mentioned in the last 3 minutes of a 90' show. No members of the band of course: there was a guy named Helmut Fest who took the award on behalf of the band. A series of very short clips (maybe 10 seconds each) from "The Model", "Pocket Calculator", "Musique non stop", "Tour de France" (this one was a little longer, maybe 30") and the TG concert closed the show. As I said before, my German is poor, but it seems to me that the show will be repeated on Saturday and Sunday - all the details on VIVA 2 teletext page 309. Ciao, *Luca* # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:01:35 GMT From: jseifert@cableinet.co.uk (Jules Seifert) Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. jbv wrote: >I'd like to discuss a few more technical aspects of it. So if other >list members find it boring, please let us know and we'll continue >privately. Don't see why not, it is on-topic, and we might gain an insight into how kw may have made theirs ciao, - ------------------------------------ Jules Seifert The Voice of Energy!! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:52:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Jules Seifert wrote: > jbv wrote: > >I'd like to discuss a few more technical aspects of it. So if other > >list members find it boring, please let us know and we'll continue > >privately. > > Don't see why not, it is on-topic, and we might gain an insight into > how kw may have made theirs Whoops, I already sent it privately. No problem, I'll send a copy to the list though jbv will get two copies. As I said, I don't know how KW made theirs. I'm just going by the pictures in the CD booklets and the animations from their performances. /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:53:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, jbv wrote: > First of all, i'd like to thank Ra () for his > very clear and very informative message on the robot construction > project. You're welcome. > I think it's clear I want a robot at my own likeness (just to pretend > I'm a KW member, in order to impress teenage girls - but have they > ever heard of KW ?). If you find one who has, I'd say you're lucky. :) > ROBOT suggests that I should have my face "plaster-molded",but I have > to say that I find this quite disgusting (I'll have to take a shower > after - beurk). Yeah, it doesn't sound like much fun. You could take a styrofoam mannequin head and carve away the parts that don't look like you, but it probably won't look right since those heads tend to be smaller than real heads and styrofoam doesn't carve very well. > Does anyone have a clue of what is the best way to go after modeling > the face with plaster (what to use to make the face itself, who could > take care of it, expenses, etc.) ? I don't know. I know it involves having someone put gunk on your face like that beauty-stuff girls use sometimes. Then you have to give it 5 or 10 minutes to harden and you can use it as a mold for plastic or resin or whatever. > I didn't imagine shoulder motors had to be so sturdy. What if arms > are made of some light (yet sturdy) plastic ? The lighter the better, but you have to remember that when the arm is stretched straight out front you have the weight of the hand and wrist stuff at a distance of about 2 feet, which is significant even if they're made of plastic. You could use a weaker motor if you geared it down a lot (reducing the speed with gears increases the torque) but then it would move more slowly. Not that the KW robots move very fast mind you. I suspect they use the sort of motors you'd find in a dot-matrix printer, geared down a lot. > Why are stepper motors so hard to find ? It's not that they're hard to find, it's just that strong ones are hard to find cheaply. I found one stepper motor that might be strong enough in an old DecWriter-type print terminal. If you have access to old computer scrap you might look in teletypes and old high-speed dot matrix printers. I've just been through my electronics catalogs and I'm surprised to discover that they don't sell any kind of motors. I know there's an overpriced store here called Princess Auto that might sell them, but other than that I'd have to call around to get an accurate price. There's also a mail-order place - I think it's called EfstonScience or Edmund Scientific (I don't know where my catalog is) - that sells a good variety of motors intended for robotics experimenters. > As for the interpreter, i think I'd go for a more compact solution : > using a micro-controller (such as 8031 or 8051) looks like a good > solution. I even think that ideas can be stealed from schematics of > MIDI-to-CV interfaces. The assembler program shouldn't be too > difficult to write. I'm sure there's already some ready-to-use > routines on the market, or in magazines for hackers A microcontroller sounds like a very good solution. I haven't actually used one myself but they don't seem much more difficult than a microprocessor and you don't need all the support logic. Don't be so sure about finding software ready-made for your application. You might be able to steal bits and pieces, but you'll have to cobble them together yourself. > And of course, once the robot is built, the next question is : how to > improve it and make R&F look like pityful has-beens ? Hmph. Add legs so it can really dance. :) (Kidding! Walking and dancing robots are still multi-million dollar research projects in Japan and the U.S.) /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:33:59 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. >> And of course, once the robot is built, the next question is : how to >> improve it and make R&F look like pityful has-beens ? >Hmph. Add legs so it can really dance. :) Well, I meant DOABLE improvements, at least by hackers. Those improvements don't have to be technical ones ; they can concern the general look of the robots, for instance. But of course, technical suggestions are welcome too. Actually, the idea is to brainstorm a little bit on a possible next step for KW imagery / concept / whatever you call it. As for myself, i was thinking of robots capable of making musical choices and decisions. Look, what does ralf really do on stage ? According to various interviews & Bussy's book, during the 91 tour, he was able to trigger various pre-defined sequences on top of the rythmic pattern of each song. Which means that he was pressing keys at the right time. So, why not imagine a robot capable of pressing various keys ? Of course, since a robot (at least a home-made one) can't move as fast as its human counterpart, and since its moves are not as accurate, it will have to be large keys and slow decision. or it could move an arm according to the beat of the song, and pretend it is conducting the whole thing (as long as the song isn't 140 bpm)... Imagine this : the robot moves one hand as if it was snapping its fingers to give the initial beat to the other musicians. The music starts. Further down the song, according to various parameters, the robot presses some keys that transform slightly the music, the robot listens / analyses what is being played, makes some decisions, moves its arm in another direction, presses another key, triggers another sequence, gives the music another direction, and so on, and so on... Of course, the robot doesn't really HEAR. And all the analysis / decision-making would be more efficient as an algorithm inside the computer, the movements of the robot pressing keys being just for the fun. But WHAT A FUN ! jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:07:51 +0200 From: Twingo on the Internet Subject: (kw) Karlsruhe gig - list update. Here is an update of the "meeting-people-list" : added numbers just to see how may are on the list > 1 Carsten Bolte DepecheCBI@aol.com 2 Dirk Fellhauer D.Fellhauer@Fh-Worms.de 3 Roland Metzger Roland_Metzger@compuserve.com 4 Leon Mols Imols@pi.net 5 Adam (L) Read adamr@world.net 6 Dennis Berggren dennis@octoprod.se 7 Josef Gabler josefgabler@magnet.at 8 Erik Barth dbarth@xs4all.nl 9 Harald Westphal unhj@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de 10 Bas van Reeuwijk W.B.vanReeuwijk@research.kpn.com 11 Oliver Hebel olihebel@hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de 12 Morten Moen mmoen@sn.no 13 Dolf Wiemer twingo@xs4all.nl 14 Judith van der Veer 14 Hil Boorsma 15 Bob Smeets 16 Maureen Jansen 0000,0000,8080Dolf 0000,8080,8080 / / Dolf Wiemer, the Netherlands ----/---/---- http://www.xs4all.nl/~twingo / / twingo@xs4all.nl, # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 19:23:36 -0700 From: Kornel Kiss Subject: (kw) Kraftwerk page I am working on a new Kraftwerk page. You can visit at: http://pages.infinit.net/myriad/kraftenter.html Every comment(good and bad) is welcome. If you know about any URL that I don't have please mail it to me. Kornel # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:23:56 -0400 From: muziknut2@juno.com (Adam Schefflan) Subject: Re: (kw) Karlsruhe help >>> You gotta realise Adam. 'fat' is a small part of prodigy. most of the English remember a whole bunch more. <<< I remember more, too, although I never got around to buying any of their stuff. The first Prodigy album here was "Experience" (I think), released on Elektra, licensed from XL Recordings. Now, Elektra must be so damn sorry now that they've finally started to take off here. Madonna's Warner Bros. Records subsidiary, Maverick, won the bidding war, and licensed "Fat" from XL and Mute for the US. "Fat" is their 4th album, am I right? >>> Lastly, I was actually takin' the piss out of jbv... <<< Damn, I miss those British expressions! Peace. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 04:05:01 +0200 From: lbo Subject: Re: SV: (kw) Classification >Ralf And Florian Go Hawaiian >(Respectfully dedicated to _Rolf_ Hutter and Florian Schneider; Founders of >Kraftwerk) and well, how does it sound? # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 04:05:10 +0200 From: lbo Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. >Does anyone have a clue of what is the best way to go after modeling >the face with plaster (what to use to make the face itself, who could >take care of it, expenses, etc.) ? I think you should find some people that deal special effects on movies. some good result could be obtained even at low prices if you find the enthusiasts. maybe you can find them in some special para-universitary schools for arts or cinema, we have sort of that in Italy, and surely you'll have it in France, but I don't know their name... >I didn't imagine shoulder motors had to be so sturdy. What if arms >are made of some light (yet sturdy) plastic ? carbon fiber? maybe more expensive but a lot higher-tech... >And of course, once the robot is built, the next question is : how to >improve it and make R&F look like pityful has-beens ? this is another strange point... a robot for musical purposes... well, now that we have computer driven synthetizers-samplers-sequencers, what's the meaning of reproduce movements? I mean, like connecting a synt to a mixer to an ampli to a speaker to a microphone to a tape to a cd... just cut it straight from synt to hd to cd! (or dvd... sorry to get back on that but it seem that dvd-equipped pc are due soon...) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 21:32:15 UT From: "Wayne Stewart" Subject: (kw) New album/ curent events Achtung Robotniks! Hello this is the first time posting to this list I have been reading for a few days and felt I needed to jump in on a few things ; Item # 1. New Album / Soundtrack A while ago on MTV news (US) "Kurt Loeder" the "mtv news bum "stated that kraftwerk had done some work (WERK ? ) on a sound track for a movie due to release this summer in the USA. Q: does any body have any freaking clue what "Kurt freeloaded "is talking about. Then they played a snippet of the kraftwerk new song via a video tape of MTV /UK this lasted about 3 to 5 seconds >>AAARGH! Damn. no the VCR doesn't WERK that fast ! However they then did play We Are the Robots on MTV's AMP show which is supposed to be the new hip electronic "ampbient" music show and let me tell you I felt pretty smug knowing a song that I have listened to for the past eight or so years was being played on the Quote cutting edge show ...AMP. ;-P :-) Note : VH-1 plays reruns of the old ABC show " Midnight Special " and according to some info in the book that came with a box set of kraftwerk CD's Kraftwerk made an appearance on that show in the 1970's (Yes the book was from a cleopatra set but they were a gift from my girlfriend, she didn't know that cleopatra is the "anti-Christ" of recording quality) It actually is a pretty cool box set as box sets go. (any more info wanted I would be happy to reply individually ) Iam performing tests on the recordings comparing them to original issue CD's from EMI -DDR, Any-way if a new album doesn't come out soon I'm going to make my own ....Ill call it kraftwerk the Dr. Kevorkian album ( 5 years of static followed by Just 48 minutes of blank tape.... ) Item # 2. Tour dates : ok no new album, I have conceded that it will not happen any time soon... The album Technopop needed a soulmate any how. However, Ralf, Florian and who ever else ( Karl , Mr. Flur ) wants to show up in the USA Play one date in California on this tour >> San Francisco, San Jose (SILICON VALLEY )Preferred. maybe you could go Electronico-toy shopping...during macworld San Francisco peter Gabriel, herbbie Hancock, Thomas Dolby, and other musically inclined types go to that show. many people here would be interested in a multimedia kraftwerk visit to the Bay Area. OK, so you wont / can't make it to California..... How about Chicago , New York, Miami , Name the place.....name the time....We will be there. in the mean time I will keep playing my kraftwerk CD's wondering when Erasure will be back in town they played three shows here recently (Three different dates) and I saw all three , even the one in the night club were we really didn't fit in....in San Francisco. Comrades .... Can You Hear Me. Stephen Wood Your loyal ROBOT # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 09:43:39 +0100 From: jbv Subject: (kw) Why a robot ? lbo wrote : >this is another strange point... a robot for musical purposes... well, now >that we have computer driven synthetizers-samplers-sequencers, what's the >meaning of reproduce movements? Yes, you're right. But as I mentioned in my previous post, this would be FOR THE FUN. Of course, any algorithm dealing with musical choice & decisions would be run by computer, and there's no question to emulate such processes (not even the hearing process) inside the robot. BUT, from the human / psychological / anthropomorphism point of view, reproducing human movements with a human-like thing has much more resonance inside human mind... I think that it's mostly what KW is all about... jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 04:34:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) jbv Robotics inc. On Sat, 30 Aug 1997, jbv wrote: > Actually, the idea is to brainstorm a little bit on a possible next > step for KW imagery / concept / whatever you call it. Perhaps they could go Gibsonian. Instead of videos of train trips and numbers in the backstage, they could have bright computer-graphic light shows and animations. > So, why not imagine a robot capable of pressing various keys ? > Of course, since a robot (at least a home-made one) can't move as > fast as its human counterpart, and since its moves are not as > accurate, it will have to be large keys and slow decision. > or it could move an arm according to the beat of the song, and pretend > it is conducting the whole thing (as long as the song isn't 140 bpm)... They could have the robot wired to hit random keys or keys based on the other music, as you said, and have a computer generate fractal music based on what keys the robot pressed. That way you could have fast-paced, pseudorandom music AND have the robot control it. > Of course, the robot doesn't really HEAR. And all the analysis / Why not? Put microphones in its ears and have the volume and pitch and left/right balance of what it hears influence the decision algorithm. /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:46:08 +0200 From: "Erik Barth" Subject: (kw) Wim Wenders' violence Hi, On the next page, http://www.telebyte.nl/~bobbink/sinead/discography/discography.htm you'll find the next text: Coming release; september 9th the soundtrack to Wim Wenders' movie called "End Of Violence" containing a duet between Sinead and U2 entitled "I Am Not Your Baby" So it's not only Kraftwerk! (And why does O'connor has a title and Kraftwerk not?) Regards Erik dbarth@xs4all.nl # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk Digest V3 #131 ******************************* To subscribe to kraftwerk Digest, send the command: subscribe kraftwerk-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-kraftwerk": subscribe kraftwerk-digest local-kraftwerk@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "kraftwerk-digest" in the commands above with "kraftwerk". 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