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Subject: mobility-digest V1 #266
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mobility-digest      Wednesday, November 18 1998      Volume 01 : Number 266



(mobility) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:32:41 -0800
Re: (mobility) MP3s (long)
(mobility) this oatmeal gettin lumpy
(mobility) Re: mobility-digest V1 #264
Re: (mobility) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:32:41 -0800
Re: (mobility) this oatmeal gettin lumpy
(mobility) Judging book covers...
(mobility) paperback frenzy with an alligator whip
(mobility) Re:  Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:32:41 -0800
Re: (mobility) paperback frenzy with an alligator whip
Re: (mobility) paperback frenzy with an alligator whip

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:32:05 -0700 
From: "Andrew Mullen" <SpaceRock@email.msn.com>
Subject: (mobility) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:32:41 -0800

upon reading my last entry, I realized how idiotic it is for me to try to
dispute what anyone here is saying. no one here even knows me, so what's the
point? I've listened to Moby for six years and talked to him several times
and I must say he's a swell guy. but, that's about it for me. I hate locking
horns with loudmouths. so, I shouldn't be a loud mouth myself.

actually, things are pretty much shitty for me right now. I've got to go to
court Friday to get a restraining order against a woman who torments us. I
was burglarized for the second time three weeks ago. so, if I offend by my
silly rebuttals, I apologize. I think I'm going through an inordinate amount
of stress. thanks for listening, "list".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:16:09 -0800
From: "Dr. Killpatient" <rfu@stitch.com>
Subject: Re: (mobility) MP3s (long)

urreax6c aka yesti wrote:
> 
> i wrote:
> 
> >> but arent waves the best representation of an analog signal we have?
> 
> you wrote:
> >Yes, or AU which takes up much more room. I never said the WAV
> >format had any problems, it's the people and the systems recording
> >the WAV that create the artifacts.
> 
> .au isnt a compression scheme?  i gotta try it out now.....with small
> files :)
> <time passes> ohhh, in cooledit you can save .au linear pcm style.

I never tested the quality , never used the format.
I stopped using macs around 93 when they became totally
frustrating to me. (please no pc vs. mac argument here)

> 
> i wrote:
> 
> >> i havent come across a encoder that offers as many options as
> >soundlimit, but i would appreciate any advice/help that anyone can give
> on this
> 
> you wrote:
> 
> >What options? I've never seen that encoder. The most options I've
> >seen would be the original l3enc for DOS.
> 
> i can up you a copy of version 1.5 for your evaluation if you wish.
> i still havent gotten a chance to eval ver 2.0 yet, but i have it.
> 
> i wrote:
> 
> >> sound limit allows you to encode joint stereo
> 
> <from cool96 help file:>
> Joint Stereo:  For stereo files, choosing Joint Stereo will combine the
> lower frequency bands and encode them as if they were mono with some
> extra information so the decoder can still place the audio into the
> proper channels.  Normally, one cannot tell the difference between audio
> saved with Joint Stereo or without, except for the fact that with Joint
> Stereo in effect, it may sound better, because there will be more room to
> save information about the higher frequencies.
> 
> (interesting last sentence, eh?)
> 

It's true, but you have to notice the differnece yourself
by taste tests before deciding how much of a difference there really is.

> >>dual channel
> 
> still a mystery...anyone?
> 
> >> it allows for model 1 or 2 psychoacoustics
> 
> Psychoacoustics:  This refers to the way a person perceives audio, and
> the model used determines which frequencies are assumed to mask other
> frequencies.  That is, if a certain sound cannot be heard over another,
> that sound is not saved.  In tests, it seems that Model 2 (AT&T) sounds
> best, but you may wish to try each model and compare since it may also be
> heavily dependent on the type of audio being compressed.
> 
> (thanks a lot for this conclusive help :P.....encode twice and see which
> is "better")

I'm glad to have this explained, this is noramlly called "masking"

Psychoacoustics (as known in general sceince and audio engineering)
are the frequencies above the range of human hearing that analog
purists insist have a dramatic effect on the overall quality.
Obviously it helps, but is it worth the extreme extra effort?
Mp3's will never capture this phenomenon anyway I imagine.


> 
> >> decoder de-emphasis
> 
> De-emphasis for decoder:  If the audio has been pre-emphasized, you
> should choose the type of de-emphasis you would like the decoder to
> perform.  Cool Edit has no pre-emphasis functions, so in general this
> option should be set to None.
> 
> (anyone know how to tell if your audio has been pre-emphasized?  almost
> sounds like a dolby scheme)
> 
> >> private bit tagging
> 
> ????

Only using cool edit, I;ve never experieinced a program that
only allows this emphaisis.


> 
> you wrote:
> 
> >I'm not sure what many of those options really mean. Do you know
> >if it uses the Fraunhoffer codec standard?
> 
> i dont recall, ill check their website (http://www.dnttm.ro/edc) and see
> if they boast that it does or boast that their codec is better :)
> 
> >Try encoding the same song with that and with mp3 producer pro
> 
> i used to use mp3 producer, but it only supports bitrates up to 128, so
> after i found soundlimit, i switched.
> 
> >or even better l3enc...then decode them back into wavs and run
> >fournier analysis to determine the frequncy response.
> 
> okey dokey, ill give it a shot over thanksgiving, too much homework till
> then ;P
> 
> peace out, and keep on encoding!

I went to their site and never found the answer to our question.
I am interested in any results from any encoding tests you do though!
let me know what happens
paul

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:25:31 -0500
From: Steve Giles <Steve.Giles@digital.com>
Subject: (mobility) this oatmeal gettin lumpy

Andrew Mullen wrote:
>>I have to agree with April. Some people are so god-damned closed minded!
>>It's like, "normal society is evil, but my little nitch is special!"

You're responding to the broad sweeping statements I made. You're responding
to the stereotypical group you lumped me with. 

I clarified and explained specifically what I thought. When I said 'suits',
I meant specifically record companies who abuse their artists and who
saturate the market with repetive crap in the name of money only. NOT "all
people who wear suits or work for large companies". I frequently wear a suit
to work, as a matter of fact. 

I am not an elitist. I am simply bothered that most of the bands I hear on
'alternative' radio are stale. They are quickselling cookiecut filler, in my
opinion. Somewhere during the last 3 years the filler became dominant and
now I can't listen to the radio because I only hear something interesting
every two hours or so, if that. I don't look down on my sister for liking
Matchbox 20. I look down on radio for playing it 30 times a day, which
crowds out other possibilites. I can't listen to the radio because this
music is shoved down my throat. I am not an elitist. I am not the taste
police. You may call me the variety police, if you wish.  :)

C'mon radio people, stop it with the Everclear. After "Heroin Girl", they've
put out the same single about 4 times with different lyrics and titles. Talk
about monotonous music. I'd like to see some Britrock on US radio. I've been
hearing wonderful things about bands like Pulp and Suede and others, but
I've never heard them because our Alternative station hasn't played
Everclear for a whole 45 minutes. Next they'll hit some Manson, cause it's
naughty, and some Korn. I like their new song, but would've heard it 200
times by now if I listened to radio. And that junkpop Smashmouth. I didn't
like it from the start. Ok. But I literally heard it going on three stations
at once. I couldn't escape. Maybe some dance radio. That'd be good. But not
booty house and R&B. That's not what I meant, but that's all I can tune
into. All this other stuff would be just as popular and profitable too if
only they'd allow it some exposure. Regardless of my judgement on the
quality there is no denying that music is shoved down the throat (or ear) of
anybody who listens to their radio. Yes, I can turn it off, but what good is
the radio then?

Andrew, please don't apologise for speaking. I wish more people would
communicate. Please don't call me a loudmouth. I'm simply speaking my mind.
Don't cast me as the bad guy for that.

- -Steve Giles 

------------------------------

Date: 18 Nov 1998 09:32:09 -0600
From: "April Kilduff" <april.kilduff@qm.fallon.com>
Subject: (mobility) Re: mobility-digest V1 #264

                      RE>mobility-digest V1 #264                   11/18/98


>Have you seen the new commercial for some quesadilla recipe, where it
shows
>two stereotypical teenage boys acting extremely stupid? They smell 'good'
>food, think it's take-out night, and go to the kitchen where they tell the
>Mom how great she is, and that she should learn the recipe for the
>quesadillas, when in fact she made them. They use words phrases like "Way
>cool, Mom!" & "Allright dude! Takeout night!" They reflect an America of
>idiot kids and condoning moms in an attempt to identify with the viewer.
>While they may succeed, I'm personally insulted by the way they show it as
>'OK' and 'normal' to be this way. Without saying or implying it, the
>commercial embraces this message: Stupidity is the norm, your kids are
>stupid, we at Acme food understand this, we understand each other, buy our
>product

The problem is that many people (for reasons I can't personally understand)
buy into
it, and do purchase these products.  The stereotyping in commercials REALLY
bugs me!


the people buying into ads such as these are not doing it because they are
stupid, they are doing it because the ad shows benefits for the soup -
convenience/quality/flavor. stereotyping is bad, nobody will argue that, but
it is a part of mass modern society. tv isn't the place to talk to people
one-on-one, so you have to talk in a way that a lot of people will relate to,
which leads to generic stereotypes. and you can only change as much as the
public will let you. the stereotypes will change, but it will be a slow
process. the only way to speed it up is to speak up about it - write letters,
participate in those annoying market research phone calls and focus groups,
visit websites! no one will bother changing images if they don't know there is
anything wrong with the current ones. 

btw - degrassi rocks! is that show still on anywhere?

adios,
april.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:34:18 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tim Beecher <T.Beecher@Cranfield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: (mobility) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:32:41 -0800

I don't know you and your situation, but hang in there. I'm 
still getting over my last court case where I had to 
testify against a very nasty abuser. Too private to 
broadcast to everyone on the list, but it's still not 
completely died yet. However, that and other things, I've 
given up worrying about now. 

Love, peace, harmony and anarchy,

T.

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:32:05 -0700 Andrew Mullen 
<SpaceRock@email.msn.com> wrote:

> upon reading my last entry, I realized how idiotic it is for me to try to
> dispute what anyone here is saying. no one here even knows me, so what's the
> point? I've listened to Moby for six years and talked to him several times
> and I must say he's a swell guy. but, that's about it for me. I hate locking
> horns with loudmouths. so, I shouldn't be a loud mouth myself.
> 
> actually, things are pretty much shitty for me right now. I've got to go to
> court Friday to get a restraining order against a woman who torments us. I
> was burglarized for the second time three weeks ago. so, if I offend by my
> silly rebuttals, I apologize. I think I'm going through an inordinate amount
> of stress. thanks for listening, "list".
> 
> 
> 
> 

- ----------------------
Tim Beecher
Cranfield University
T.Beecher@Cranfield.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:23:18 -0800
From: "Andrew Mullen" <SpaceRock@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: (mobility) this oatmeal gettin lumpy

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Giles <Steve.Giles@digital.com>
To: 'mobility@lists.xmission.com' <mobility@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 7:26 AM
Subject: (mobility) this oatmeal gettin lumpy


>
>Andrew Mullen wrote:
>>>I have to agree with April. Some people are so god-damned closed minded!
>>>It's like, "normal society is evil, but my little nitch is special!"
>
>You're responding to the broad sweeping statements I made. You're
responding
>to the stereotypical group you lumped me with.
>
>I clarified and explained specifically what I thought. When I said 'suits',
>I meant specifically record companies who abuse their artists and who
>saturate the market with repetive crap in the name of money only. NOT "all
>people who wear suits or work for large companies". I frequently wear a
suit
>to work, as a matter of fact.
>

>Andrew, please don't apologise for speaking. I wish more people would
>communicate. Please don't call me a loudmouth. I'm simply speaking my mind.
>Don't cast me as the bad guy for that.

You don't seem like a bad guy at all. disregard the "loudmouth" term. I
simply mean people that seem to have no problem speaking their minds (which
is good actually). I'm shy and therefore maybe a bit jealous? I don't know.
In any event it's probably just me venting about something that has nothing
to do with this list or it's members. everything's been hitting the fan
lately, on my end, so I feel so negative these days...

anybody know a fun, cheap, beautiful, good vacation spot in the western u.s?
I think I need one.

later.
- --andrew m.
>
>-Steve Giles
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:39:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tim Beecher <T.Beecher@Cranfield.ac.uk>
Subject: (mobility) Judging book covers...

> is good actually). I'm shy and therefore maybe a bit jealous? I don't know.
>
> --andrew m.
> 
Yes, I forgot to add that too. I'm shy, especially when 
amongst people in person. Maybe that's why this e-mail list 
is such a release for me, as I feel I can express myself 
without any inhibitions. Personally I hate, or rather
dislike, loudmouths - I mean the ones you audibly hear 
(loving the sound of their own voice thing) and are truly 
pretentious. Here I feel I'm on a par and can sort of let 
go and get my own back, (sorry to the innocent victims!). 
Right now, I've sort of got it out of my system, so y'all 
will be relieved to hear I'm cooling down.

I'm all for everybody 'touching base' and getting real and 
honest. It's a bit cheesy/tacky, but good.

Enjoy the Silence.

TMB.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

- ----------------------
Tim Beecher
Cranfield University
T.Beecher@Cranfield.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:56:41 -0500
From: Steve Giles <Steve.Giles@digital.com>
Subject: (mobility) paperback frenzy with an alligator whip

I got this Dallas Edge Radio Live CD that has a cool BBMH live with Pablo's
drums in the intro and outro. Pretty nifty. Moby sceams about love, as
usual, throwing in a "LOVE! Love makes me come, can you feel it love, love,
love, LOVE!" every once in a while. It also has a live Revolver that, well,
hauls ass. Only way to describe it. Worth mentioning is a ten minute live
version of Where It's At, which Beck performs with great gusto and panache.
Must-have for any Beck fan. It's a real diamond in the rough. Especially
considering that there's a flat performance by k's choice on there, and
matchbox 20 whining about being an cruel selfish bastard who's really just
terified inside. No sympathy for that caricature.

I also got the UK BBMH single. I like the Voodoo Child mix! I can see why
this was reserved for the Euro release. It's very energetic in a euro kinda
way. I like the Interactive mix too, which I've not heard good about. Just
bad, actually. It doesn't innovate, but the treatment the vocal blurbs are
given in combination with the mix makes for a nice uplifting piece. Who else
likes this mix besides me?

Interesting. I'm quiet in person too, unless I'm with established friends.
My thoughts only get cut up and misinterpreted in person. Nobody has the
time to listen to me pontificate for 5 minutes to clearly illustate
something, and summaries don't do me justice. It is imperative that I ramble
about that which captivates me. Oh well. I'm also frequently a loudmouth
because I refuse to lower the music volume. :)

Say what pleases you, writers of messages, and do not apologise for mood
swings or your audience's displeasure at your opinion. (if applicable) The
way I see it, I write to make this list fun for me and others. If somebody
doesn't like that, he can write his own message to change the subject and
make it what he wants it to be. Those who don't write can't get mad at you
for what you DO write. It's all about contribution.

>>Enjoy the Silence.

I hope that's a 'now playing' and not a prophecy.

- -Steve G

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:00:58 +0000
From: clay <clayev2k@ixpres.com>
Subject: (mobility) Re:  Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:32:41 -0800

andrew....people...friends......

andrew wrote:>  I hate locking
> horns with loudmouths. so, I shouldn't be a loud mouth myself.
> 

hey let's not lock horns loudmouth style
but just like pretend we're all a buncha dancing loudmouths
who on many an occasion sound like the idiots we are.
get a clue from moby and let us realize the idiot in us all 
.......only then we can be free from any notion about our :rightness: 
regarding things.
april is young, apparently.
i know guys in suits who hate wearing them but hey...that's their 
uniform.
they get shiny pennies in return and the system goes round and round.
they wish they could dress like me at work (some of them at least)
and shit...there was one time i wish i could look so good in an
armani jacket.
and so shitty dance music go round and round>>>>
it possessing it's own uniforms codes and behavior and attitudes.
and then there is great dance music and non-dance music.
let us not judge so harshly.
and let us get the joke.....and enjoy it.

laugh once in awhile cause
everything is subject to change.


peace y'all


clay

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:04:42 -0600
From: "Brad Caviness" <bigwig@arkansas.net>
Subject: Re: (mobility) paperback frenzy with an alligator whip

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Giles 

>I got this Dallas Edge Radio Live CD 
>
Aack! Can you get more? Or tell me where I can get one?

BSC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:12:46 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tim Beecher <T.Beecher@Cranfield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: (mobility) paperback frenzy with an alligator whip

> Interesting. I'm quiet in person too, unless I'm with established friends.

Ditto. When I'm with my best friend especially, we are very 
different. We have this strange effect on each other. Other 
friends say we're completely different and a 'bad' 
influence on each other, which is good, if you know what I 
mean.

> My thoughts only get cut up and misinterpreted in person. Nobody has the
> time to listen to me pontificate for 5 minutes to clearly illustate
> something, and summaries don't do me justice. It is imperative that I ramble
> about that which captivates me. Oh well. I'm also frequently a loudmouth
> because I refuse to lower the music volume. :)

Another ditto. Music and trappings tends to speak my 
language to others.
> 
> Say what pleases you, writers of messages, and do not apologise for mood
> swings or your audience's displeasure at your opinion. (if applicable) The
> way I see it, I write to make this list fun for me and others. If somebody
> doesn't like that, he can write his own message to change the subject and
> make it what he wants it to be. Those who don't write can't get mad at you
> for what you DO write. It's all about contribution.
> 
> >>Enjoy the Silence.
> 
> I hope that's a 'now playing' and not a prophecy.

> -Steve G

That's a 'I wish it was a now playing'. Who knows, it could 
be a prophecy and the universe will reduce itself to 
nothing? But then there's God, if you believe. Will 
heaven/nirvana/? be silence or music or what?
> 

Tim B.
> 

- ----------------------
Tim Beecher
Cranfield University
T.Beecher@Cranfield.ac.uk

------------------------------

End of mobility-digest V1 #266
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