From: Gregg Johnson Subject: goalie graphic Date: 01 Jan 1997 12:35:36 -0500 Nice looking graphic of a goalie in net at http://www.rickheinz.com/, Happy New Year to all! Gregg gjohnson@mail.portup.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rosser, Tim A." Subject: Rap arounds Date: 02 Jan 1997 07:40:00 -0600 I'm a third year goalie and am having problems covering the rap arounds. Can anybody give me some suggestions on how to cover those better? Thanks Tim Rosser rosser@maritz.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Malicki" Subject: Re: Rap arounds Date: 02 Jan 1997 13:01:37 -0500 Howdy all: A wrap-around is a funny shot, for a lot of times, due to your equipment and the post, you often times won't be able to see the shot coming. Henceforth, you have to do some things differently. First, you have to learn to anticipate a wrap-around. Keep your eye on the puck, even when it's behind the net (often difficult to do....find an angle that works for you), and if a guy is cutting close to the net out in front, expect a wrap-around. Secondly, due to the angles, most players won't be able to get a shot up on a pure wrap-around, so having the ice blocked is crucial. Now, there are 2 types of wrap-around....stick side, and glove side. For the glove side, I often a) jam the toe of my skate (jamming the heel will open up holes) against the post, then slide my stick, on it's side, over to the post, to make sure. On the stick side, you probably won't have a stick to help, so it's more important to get that pad over. Important note.....on many rinks, they won't anchor the posts down, so you're always weary of kicking them off in an attempt. Don't be....if you kick it off, the play stops then, and you don't have to worry about it. If the officials try to give you hell, tell them that if their equipment was up to par, they wouldn't have this problem. For another alternative, try standing up for both of them, wrapping your arm around the post to draw yourself to it, and then putting the blade against your pads and the post. That'll work for both sides, and it can be preferrable, but it is also easier to leave holes that way. Hope this helped, Matt Malicki ------------ Malickim@tir.com & *** *o*** ******* *****o*** o********** ******o****** ### ### ### ### ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Re: Rap arounds Date: 02 Jan 1997 10:31:25 -0800 (PST) >I'm a third year goalie and am having problems covering the rap arounds. >Can >anybody give me some suggestions on how to cover those better? > > >Thanks >Tim Rosser >rosser@maritz.com Tim: I hate wrap around. However, there is something you can do about it. First, work on going laterally across the goal mouth. The key to stopping a wrap around is to get to the other post before the skater can come around behind the goal. Jam your inside skate up against the post as you come across and close up with your outside leg as quickly as possible. Get that inside skate against the post as quickly and as hard as you can. Most wrap around goals go between your leg and the near post. Jamming a skate against the post cuts this off. The key is to get there fast! Bring your stick around on the ice and get it in front of you blocking off the skater's path to the front of the net. If the skater is too close to the net you can knock the puck off his stick that way. However, watch out for the fake in which the skater cuts back to the other side. Hope this helps. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Steinhart Subject: Re: wraparounds Date: 02 Jan 1997 12:38:27 -0700 (MST) Reply to Rosser, Tim A.: > > I'm a third year goalie and am having problems covering the rap arounds. > Can > anybody give me some suggestions on how to cover those better? > I hate to be nitpicky, but it's "wrap" rather than "rap", otherwise we'd be talking about LL Cool J and Kool Moe Dee (-; First, as other people have said, keep your eye on the (wo)man with the puck, and learn to anticipate the wraparound. One way to do this is to hug the post, look over your shoulder, and when you lost sight of the shooter, you need to move quickly to the other post. Paul Cohen had a different suggestion: Stay in the middle of the net, looking over your shoulder. That way you only move once the shooter actually commits to a side. But whatever you do, the key is to block the net down low. I used to get burned by wraparounds all the time, and I credit Paul for curing me of that. What I do is once I see the shooter commit, I drop to the inside knee, *while* pushing off with the outside foot. This motion allows you to quickly slide over to the post, and having dropped to your knee, your pad is down, and blocking the low portion of the net, exactly where the shooter is going to be. I've blocked a ton of wraparounds this way, and the nice result of this is that the puck is often sandwiched between your pad and the ice, stopping the play, if that's what you want. As far as anticipating the wraparound, I'm usually too liberal in my assumptions. So I'll often make the above move, only to have the shooter continue skating out towards the circle or try to come across the goal mouth--I may be overcritical here. That is, it may be the case that the shooter had planned to wrap around, but is responding to my move). Anyway, it's not a huge problem if you can recover quickly. And since you're only down on one knee, it's quite easy to recover from that position. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: Rap arounds Date: 02 Jan 1997 18:12:22 -0500 (EST) At 07:40 AM 1/2/97 -0600, you wrote: >I'm a third year goalie and am having problems covering the rap arounds. >Can >anybody give me some suggestions on how to cover those better? > > >Thanks >Tim Rosser >rosser@maritz.com > > > There are a few methods used to do this... first lets look at the conventional method or the old style. Assume we are going from blocker side to glove side for this example: Firstly, wrap arounds occur when a player breaks in and goes behind the net and to the opposite side and tries to tuck the puck into the net. Therefor, it is important to master the "shuffle" or "push-off" before trying these at full speed. Set up on the post (on blocker side), skate and pad tight to the post, stick pointing on a 45 deg angle from the post ready to break up a low pass. Glove should be at waist height facing to the corner ready to catch a high pass. As the player moves around the net, as soon as he passes the center bar of the net make your move, leading with the goal stick, the stick should arive at the post before the skate. (the arm and stick are longer, therefor drive it to the post first and follow with the skate) If everything is timed correctlty, you shouldnt have a problem preventing the jam in. Take note of the handedness of the shooter, a right shot in this situation will have a better chance of scoring, as he will be able to extend the stick and tuck it in on the forehand, whereas a left handed shooter will need to use the backhand. (The opposite applies on catcher side starts). If the shooter skates behind the net and continues to move out and infront rather than tuck it in, you also have to come off the post, otherwise it leaves the lower corner open... Staying in the center of the net is good too.. but thats for a situation where the player stops behind the net (Wayne Gretzky uses this perfectly and scores alot of times) The other method is do slide across and jam the pads into the post... or get the paddle down on the ice... this leaves the top corners open... and a well schooled shooter who sees a goalie sprawling, will come out to the front of the net while you are out of position, and try to tuck one in the corners... This is a hard one to explain on here... to bad we couldnt have videos on this! hahah Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Sanyal" Subject: Wrap arounds Date: 02 Jan 1997 18:38:26 -0500 After seeing the messages posted on the topic, I am wondering if there is a problem with my own technique. Generally the only time that I get scored on from a wrap around is if the player is allowed to move in front of the net, unmolested by my defencemen. My method is to kick my skate into the post the shooter is heading toward, keeping my pad at about a 30 degree angle. I also put my paddle down to protect the five hole, and drag the other pad is on the ice. Another goalie once told me that I should not be kicking my skate to the post, and instead should slide the pad into the post, while keeping my other pad at about a 30 degree angle. I use the technique that I do because I can kick my skate into the post a few fractions of a second faster than I can slide the entire pad into the post. Again, I rarely get beaten on wraparounds - and if the player does manage to move in front of the net, I can usually get up and challenge him. Is there something flawed with my technique though? Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Santarcangelo Subject: Re: Rap arounds Date: 02 Jan 1997 19:55:03 -0600 Rosser, Tim A. wrote: > > I'm a third year goalie and am having problems covering the rap arounds. > Can > anybody give me some suggestions on how to cover those better? > > Thanks > Tim Rosser > rosser@maritz.com Watch & Anticipate. I usually hug the post and watch. As they move further behind the net i "cheat over a lttle" but you have to be real careful to keep an eye on the puck carrier. When I'm certain that he is going for the other side, I shoot my leg out so my skate hits the post and my pad is on the ice. If I am moving to my stick side, I swipe outside the post with my stick as well. Some goalies are able to slide over keeping thier "leading" leg upright with their trailing leg on the ice. I have not been too successful getting there fast enough that way. Good luck! -- ************************************************************************ All views are my own and may be completely ignored. "Take interest in the mundane.It's all we have." msantar1@airmail.net ************************************************************************ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JMdog@aol.com Subject: Re: Wrap arounds Date: 02 Jan 1997 21:33:05 -0500 hey i don't have the time nor the patience but here goes it is imperative to stand up as much as possible rather than hit the deck while sliding across and use the paddle of your stick to cover the fiver. the only thing that is really going to save you is your skating ability. work on your lateral movement it is so key. i got to practice with manon rheaume and while running drills at one end she went down to the other end and practiced nothing but skating laterals for about a good half hour. i've always considered my skating ability to be my strongest point and all goalies should have excellent skills. i see too many kids get shoved in the pipes because they suck. another thing that is imperative is to lead with your stick while moving laterally-- very key. the biggest thing is keeping your eye on the puck. this isn't easy but then if your looking for easy try checkers zac ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Malicki" Subject: Re: Wrap arounds Date: 03 Jan 1997 01:40:15 -0500 Howdy all: Steven makes an interesting point here.....there's no one "right" way to do these things. I like using my paddle, however, many shun that. What is important is that you stop it....if you're sucessful, than that's all that matters. Remember that goaltending is a matter of doing things that work, no matter how they look or feel. For instance, I have had a doctor look at me, and tell me that it would be impossible for me to do a correct butterfly.....if I did, I'd pop all kind of joints in my legs, and the most I can safely hope for is a 2-3" spacing between my pads at most. Many would say that I can never acheive greatness...however, I have put many a butterflier to shame, with one of the ugliest styles I've ever seen. So, if it works, do it. Matt Malicki ------------ Malickim@tir.com & *** *o*** ******* *****o*** o********** ******o****** ### ### ### ### ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Malcolm Preen Subject: Re: wraparounds Date: 03 Jan 1997 08:42:57 +0000 Dave Steinhart wrote: > First, as other people have said, keep your eye on the (wo)man with the > puck, and learn to anticipate the wraparound. One way to do this is to > hug the post, look over your shoulder, and when you lost sight of the > shooter, you need to move quickly to the other post. Paul Cohen had a > different suggestion: Stay in the middle of the net, looking over your > shoulder. That way you only move once the shooter actually commits to > a side. I was told a similar trick - basically you will be stronger pushing from one side rather than the other, so I was advised to hug one post, until you are sure they are going the other side, and then get over there with all haste. Being short, I've had a problem with being burned by guys lofting it, so my main focus is not to leave any holes anywhere, and ideally play quite a way out to narrow the angle. Malcolm -- Malcolm (recent 1-0-0 sav%94.00 GAA 2.25 - career 22-19-1 85.89% 5.76) Goaltending is 90% mental and the other 10% is in your head British Hockey Results/Tables: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~sonic/hockey.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Malcolm Preen Subject: Did Patrick Roy get the win on Dec 31 ? Date: 03 Jan 1997 08:48:47 +0000 On December 31, in the game v Chicago, Patrick Roy left the game for 12 seconds (I presume to get his equipment fixed), and whilst he was off the ice his replacement Billington faced no shots, and conceded no goals, but the Avalanche scored what turned out to be the GWG. However, from all the box scores I've seen Roy was given the win ? I thought it went to the goalie on the ice when the winning goal was scored.. ? [speaking from experience, when I started I played a single period, 3 shots, 3 goals, but I got the win as we scored the GWG during that period] Comments ? Malcolm -- Malcolm (recent 1-0-0 sav%94.00 GAA 2.25 - career 22-19-1 85.89% 5.76) Goaltending is 90% mental and the other 10% is in your head British Hockey Results/Tables: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~sonic/hockey.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Malicki" Subject: Re: Did Patrick Roy get the win on Dec 31 ? Date: 03 Jan 1997 09:06:50 -0500 Howdy: Having seen that part of the game, I hadn't really thought about it, but here's what I understand the rules as. (BTW, I am of the opinion that they swapped netminders in order to get a little rest to their pp guys.) The easiest way to look at it is to think of a game winning save, or a save which assured victory. For instance, in your example, let's say you won that game 3-1. Now, if the other team had 25 shots on net, and you got the 23rd save, that would be the GWS, for, if they had scored on all remaining shots, they could not have won. This is not set in stone, however....at least where I play, there are no rules on how to officially score something like that, and it's usually scorers taste. Matt Malicki ------------ Malickim@tir.com & *** *o*** ******* *****o*** o********** ******o****** ### ### ### ### ---------- > From: Malcolm Preen > To: Goalie List > Subject: Did Patrick Roy get the win on Dec 31 ? > Date: Friday, January 03, 1997 3:48 AM > > On December 31, in the game v Chicago, Patrick Roy left the game for 12 > seconds (I presume to get his equipment fixed), and whilst he was off > the ice his replacement Billington faced no shots, and conceded no > goals, but the Avalanche scored what turned out to be the GWG. > > However, from all the box scores I've seen Roy was given the win ? > > I thought it went to the goalie on the ice when the winning goal was > scored.. ? [speaking from experience, when I started I played a single > period, 3 shots, 3 goals, but I got the win as we scored the GWG during > that period] > > Comments ? > > Malcolm > -- > Malcolm (recent 1-0-0 sav%94.00 GAA 2.25 - career 22-19-1 85.89% 5.76) > Goaltending is 90% mental and the other 10% is in your head > British Hockey Results/Tables: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~sonic/hockey.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SMILE2368@aol.com Subject: Re: Rap arounds Date: 03 Jan 1997 22:04:53 -0500 When the puck is behind the net there is always a possibiltiy for a rap-around. So if the puck is behind your net (even if your team is in possestion) stay at one post never in the middle between posts. Never turn around always look over one shoulder at the play behind the net and stay low, only go to your knees if neccesary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Oulton" Subject: Edmonton and Toronto Game Jan 3 Date: 03 Jan 1997 23:13:58 -0500 All RIGHT!!!! Who stole my idea of attending the game and sitting right behind the players benches wearing a complete set of Goalies gear??? Your wearing a Blackhawks shirt and mask painted to look similar to one of their masks. I want to talk to you RIGHT NOW!!! Thank you for putting up with me... :-) Roger PTBO KID/xcentric/Man-Dingo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: Rap arounds Date: 04 Jan 1997 10:18:45 -0500 (EST) At 10:04 PM 1/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >When the puck is behind the net there is always a possibiltiy for a >rap-around. So if the puck is behind your net (even if your team is in >possestion) stay at one post never in the middle between posts. Never turn >around always look over one shoulder at the play behind the net and stay low, >only go to your knees if neccesary > > > Staying in the middle of the net is something that a more advanced goalie will do, if the player has stopped behind the net and is holding the puck. This way you only have to move one foot or so to either side. Watch the player through the mesh in the net by bending forward and turning your head. If you set up on one post, the player fakes to one side, and you go, your introuble, as they can turn, and tuck the puck in the side you pushed off of. Only stay in the center of the net when the play is directly behind you. Another reason for staying centered, is if a pass comes to the slot area, you are in better position to make a save, and are taking up more of the net.. A good shooter knows that if a goalie is hugging his right post, to shoot to the goalies left post, as this will require the goalie to move across the net. If the puck goes to the slot, and you are on a post, you have to move off the post to get set to make the save. More often than not, this is a one-timer too.. so its positioning and knowing when to be where. If your own player is behind your net, you WANT TO BE IN THE CENTER. The reasoning is simple, you dont want the opposition to see what he is doing with the puck, or what way he will break out... Remember, to bend over, and not stand straight up, as this will screen your teamates ability to see up the ice... Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Hurst Subject: Splits Date: 04 Jan 1997 23:32:56 +0000 Hi guys, Another question, I'm about 20cm away from doing the splits, how can I finish it off? -- David Hurst ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Hurst Subject: Reactions Date: 04 Jan 1997 23:29:22 +0000 Hi folks, I started this topic of reaction speed a while ago, and I really appreciated the responses and tips that were posted. I'm still having trouble though. Here's my scenario. I'm 18, and I play roller hockey in the southern league of the UK. Although people constantly tell me that I'm really good and am the best in the league (I was very proud to be picked for the all-star team), like all of us, deep down I know that I could be much better. No matter what, all of us can improve somewhere. The main area of my goaltending that bugs me is, unfortunately, reactions. People are always saying, how come your reactions are so fast. But these are people that are outsiders to us goalies, and don't really understand a goalie's mind, i.e. my true weaknesses often can only be spotted by fellow goalies. I often study books - I love Lords of the Rink. So I thought what better way to get more advice and knowledge than to ask fellow, more experienced, better goalies on this list. Basically, I really want to improve the quality of my reactions, not just the speed, but mainly the accuracy. Maybe one of my faults is that I set my standards or targets too high? Maybe I just have to wait for the experience (I've been playing 2 years), but I want to be much better, and I'm willing to put in the hard work. I'm a fast goalie, and very agile (I like to dive around saving all over the place). My reactions are not poor or anything, I just want them to be better, mainly at a consistant high level. Most of all I want to feel CONFIDENT in saving the first shots, and then deal with rebounds later. Particularly, I think the main weaknesses of my reactions are cathing and blocking, my legs aren't too bad. So, here's some questions: I play with a ball, but when I play Ice hockey, I find reactions easier, so could the ball be much harder? In detail, from the state of your mind and thoughts the movements of the catcher, what is your method for catching a puck? What do you think about? Do you have to be concentrated? Do you watch the puck go right in your catcher? Do you tense your hand, with your catcher positioned along the the puck's path or do you loosen up your arm and perform the catching movement in the necessary place to catch the puck? How do you perform big, circling glove saves? Last time, I got the general impression that you should watch the puck all the way into the glove, but I find that on all close shots, I don't have enough time. Do it just take time? Seeing as our sport is played in small sports halls, our playing area is about half the size of an ice rink. This means that average shots are about 4-5 meters from me. At a fast wrist shot speed, from this distance, are you guys confident in reacting to a shot and saving it or it is a case of not-enough-time-to-react so I'll cover up as much of the net as possible. Ideally I'd like reactions that enable me to confidently react in time and save shots from this distance. Does it just take experience/hard work or is it asking too much. At the moment I can confidently deal with shots from about twice that distance, but have slight trouble on very hard slapshots. What about you guys, what distance can you confidently save pretty much any wrist shot? (I mean so that if you let it in you think to yourself, I messed up there, I definately should have had that one). What about distances for making catches confidently? Is it a case of keeping calm, clearing your mind and concentrating on the ball? As for making saves within about a 8 meter range in general, my other problem is that on big shots I often flinch, causing my eyes to blink sometimes. Maybe it is a lack of confidence in my protection caused me to be weary of injury? I know this can affect you badly. What about you guys, how, in detail, do you actually make a save? Do you flinch on close range hard shots? Should you really keep your eyes dead concentrated watching the ball the whole time, reacting to it's every movement? Is this the method for making close range saves with confidence i.e. amazing glove catches or kick saves like the NHL goalies? How do they do it, what are their methods? In Vladislav Tretiak's book 'The Art of Goaltending', to save close range hard shots, he recommends the style of anticipating where the shooter is going the shoot before they shoot. i.e. watching the player's position and angle of his/her stick. Does anyone use this method? What other methods do people use? I so badly want to do whatever it takes to pluck pucks/balls out of the air with my catcher, and make all the other close range saves CONSISTANTLY and CONFIDENTLY (i.e. save them 90% of the time - at the moment I'm about 70% on close range shots). Hope you guys can solve this one! Thanks for anyone's help, -- Dave Hurst, Bullets Goalie #66 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Re: Splits Date: 04 Jan 1997 16:32:44 -0800 (PST) No joke, but the same way you got that far. You can always get someone to help push you down a little if you're unable to do it yourself. I've tried some of those split machines which help with side splite and I wasn't too happy with them. Some put too much pressure on the knees. There are tons of books on stretching which can help as well. Splits are quite useful. I've found that you can get away with a hell of a lot with splits. Not that I'm happy with it, but I've been faked a few times but was able to (luckily) make a save because I had my legs in a split. You get to cover a lot of the lower area of the net even if your torso is out of position. Get a book on stretching and do different types of stretches for the same area. Tal At 11:32 PM 1/4/97 +0000, David Hurst wrote: >Hi guys, >Another question, I'm about 20cm away from doing the splits, how can I >finish it off? >-- >David Hurst > > > ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Steinhart Subject: Re: Splits Date: 04 Jan 1997 17:41:44 -0700 (MST) Reply to David Hurst: > > Hi guys, > Another question, I'm about 20cm away from doing the splits, how can I > finish it off? The last 20cm are no doubt the hardest. I'm too old and brittle to do the splits (but I can do some pretty good yoga positions), and at some point, your body, like mine, will simply refuse. If you're not at that point, just keep stretching every day. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Re: Reactions Date: 04 Jan 1997 17:08:05 -0800 (PST) Wow. That's quite a screenfull. Well, I'll give me input.. >I play with a ball, but when I play Ice hockey, I find reactions easier, >so could the ball be much harder? ---I think that could just be with whom you play. I normally play roller with a puck & a little ice and find it harder than ball. I played one ball tourney (NHL Breakout) and played the ringer team- they sported a couple guys from the Rhinos and some semi- pros. Granted, we lost. But considering these guys, I was very thankful they weren't using a puck. >In detail, from the state of your mind and thoughts the movements of the >catcher, what is your method for catching a puck? What do you think >about? Do you have to be concentrated? Do you watch the puck go right in >your catcher? Do you tense your hand, with your catcher positioned along >the the puck's path or do you loosen up your arm and perform the >catching movement in the necessary place to catch the puck? How do you >perform big, circling glove saves? ---Why do you want to make big, circling glove saves? I've always been told, (for another sport), that the quickest distance between two points in is a straight line. Personally, I'll see people make unnecessary circular motions after a save. It might look cool, but it's worthless.. Always stay relaxed. >Last time, I got the general impression that you should watch the puck >all the way into the glove, but I find that on all close shots, I don't >have enough time. Do it just take time? ---My understanding is that you always want your eye on the puck regardless of where it's going, whether it's your glove, pad or past the net. If you lost sight of the puck, they can score. >Seeing as our sport is played in small sports halls, our playing area is >about half the size of an ice rink. This means that average shots are >about 4-5 meters from me. At a fast wrist shot speed, from this >distance, are you guys confident in reacting to a shot and saving it or >it is a case of not-enough-time-to-react so I'll cover up as much of the >net as possible. Ideally I'd like reactions that enable me to >confidently react in time and save shots from this distance. Does it >just take experience/hard work or is it asking too much. At the moment I >can confidently deal with shots from about twice that distance, but have >slight trouble on very hard slapshots. What about you guys, what >distance can you confidently save pretty much any wrist shot? (I mean so >that if you let it in you think to yourself, I messed up there, I >definately should have had that one). What about distances for making >catches confidently? ---Much of that question will be determined by who answers. I'm sure that when you first started, you weren't even confident of the longer shots. As for me, if I have a guy about 5ft in front of the crease I challange him. If I set back in my net, he will score. It's just too close and there'e too much net open. So I roll (slide) out towards him and force him to shoot. I look totally at the puck. Normally, if he is standing still, his wrist shot won't be too fast. It's when they're skating that the shots get *really* fast. It seems to work most of the times. The way I see it is I have to take charge of the situation. I can't give him the time to think about where he's going to shoot. >Is it a case of keeping calm, clearing your mind and concentrating on >the ball? ---Yes. >As for making saves within about a 8 meter range in general, my other >problem is that on big shots I often flinch, causing my eyes to blink >sometimes. Maybe it is a lack of confidence in my protection caused me >to be weary of injury? I know this can affect you badly. What about you >guys, how, in detail, do you actually make a save? Do you flinch on >close range hard shots? Should you really keep your eyes dead >concentrated watching the ball the whole time, reacting to it's every >movement? ----Look, any extra movement, i.e. a flinch, will lengthen the time it takes to you get to where you want to go. Hell, one guy dented my mast, hit me in the throat and the nuts. The groin shot put me out for a good 40 minutes. Hell yes I flinch when he shoots. He scares me. It's the hardest shot I have ever faced. But he's about the only one. Now it's a little better since I got a new chest guard. But when he shoots, I do my best to stay relaxed and calm. When you are intimidated, they will most probably score. How are your pads? Try to deflect the puck before it even hits you. Hell, that's what we should be doing anyway. Is this the method for making close range saves with >confidence i.e. amazing glove catches or kick saves like the NHL >goalies? How do they do it, what are their methods? In Vladislav >Tretiak's book 'The Art of Goaltending', to save close range hard shots, >he recommends the style of anticipating where the shooter is going the >shoot before they shoot. i.e. watching the player's position and angle >of his/her stick. Does anyone use this method? What other methods do >people use? ---I'm not going to second guess him, but you better have tons of experience to be able to catalog all that information and anticipate his shot during a game. As for me, I still react. I'd say that he scores a good 90% of the time when I anticipate. But then again, I just guess. > ----I started in another sport which requires a lot of speed which has carried over in hockey. The good thing about being a netminder is that you ahve positioning to help you out as well. If you are positioned correctly, you really won't have to move much. But, stay relaxed, the second you tense up you add an extra movement. Also if you are tense, you will move slower. If you are relaxed, you will move faster. Try exhaling with your move. But in my opinion, the most important part of the whole deal is concentrating on the puck. You could be the fast hand in the UK, but if you're watching the guy and not the puck, you probably won't make the save. Final point. It may be that you're thinking about it too much. I'm sure you've found what works for you. Keep going with that idea. When goals score think about what you would have needed to do to save it. I'd bet that you would very rarely find that you would actually have to be faster. It probably was bad positioning or lack of concentration or something like that. hope that helps Tal ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blake Wehlage Subject: Re: Splits Date: 05 Jan 1997 00:55:06 -0500 At 11:32 PM 1/4/97 +0000, David Hurst wrote: >Hi guys, >Another question, I'm about 20cm away from doing the splits, how can I >finish it off? >-- >David Hurst > > Being one of the youngest ones (if not the youngest) I had this problem alittle while ago.... This was my solution.... Lay About 10 Books or so on top of each other.... First get as far down as you can currently go then..... slowly (key word so u don't hurt yourself) go a little lower.... keep working on this everynight til' u can do it... it took me about a month or so and now i can do all the way down. Also- The splits do cover alot of the lower goal and also leave u in pretty good position for the rebounds.... Blake** -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 G! d--- s++:- a---- C+++ UL P+ L++++ E+ W++$ N+++ o- K- w--- O- M++ V-- PS+++ PE-- Y++(+++) PGP+(-) t 5(+) X(-) R* tv++ b- DI+ D-- G+++(+) e*(--) h! r+ y*(--) ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HOCKEY6688@aol.com Subject: Re: Reactions Date: 05 Jan 1997 01:13:49 -0500 Hey goalies - Man, this is a long message! Here's my 2 (hundred) cents: > Hi folks, > > I started this topic of reaction speed a while ago, and I really > appreciated the responses and tips that were posted. I'm still having > trouble though. > Here's my scenario. I'm 18, and I play roller hockey in the southern > league of the UK. Although people constantly tell me that I'm really > good and am the best in the league (I was very proud to be picked for > the all-star team), like all of us, deep down I know that I could be > much better. No matter what, all of us can improve somewhere. The main -- There's always room for improvement, isn't there? > area of my goaltending that bugs me is, unfortunately, reactions. People > are always saying, how come your reactions are so fast. But these are > people that are outsiders to us goalies, and don't really understand a > goalie's mind, i.e. my true weaknesses often can only be spotted by > fellow goalies. I often study books - I love Lords of the Rink. So I -- I've never read any books on goaling technique...I do compare my techniques to other goalies' though. Rather than read books, watch how the NHL pro's do things, as goaltending theories are mush better explained when you actually SEE how pro's use them. I often find myself watching other goalies' footwork (particularly Roy's and Vanbiesbrouck's), just because footwork is so important to butterflyers like me... > I play with a ball, but when I play Ice hockey, I find reactions easier, > so could the ball be much harder? -- I played roller hockey with both puck and hard-ball before I made the switch to ice hockey. Roller-hockey pucks (like the Jofa ISD puck) tend to behave similarly to ice pucks, but due to their light weight, roller-pucks travel faster and bounce higher than ice pucks. Roller-pucks are also easier to stop than ice pucks because of their light weight. Hard-balls tend to travel very quickly; goaltending in ball hockey is almost all about reflexes and angles, because as long as the goalie gets a pad to touch the shot, it will ricochet away as fast as it came in (since the ball is so light). The main difference between roller balls/pucks and ice pucks is the weight. Personally, I have gotten a much better "feel" for ice pucks than I ever got with a ball/roller-puck, just because of the heavier weight. When I played roller hockey I was a stand-up goalie, but over time, as I've been playing on ice, I've switched to mostly (over 90%) butterflying. Go figure. > In detail, from the state of your mind and thoughts the movements of the > catcher, what is your method for catching a puck? What do you think > about? Do you have to be concentrated? Do you watch the puck go right in > your catcher? Do you tense your hand, with your catcher positioned along > the the puck's path or do you loosen up your arm and perform the > catching movement in the necessary place to catch the puck? How do you > perform big, circling glove saves? -- For me, glove saves are just an eye-hand coordination thing. I had a little trouble when I switched gloves (when I went to ice hockey I had to update a lot of my equipment), but time solved that...through practice I got used to the different glove angle. I'd say I keep my glove arm loose, because if you tense up and start carrying your glove awkwardly, your save time will just increase because your instinctive/natural reaction will be impeded by your unnatural position. When catching a puck (I never really have to think about this, it's all natural) I just time it so that the arc path of my glove intersects the path of the puck right when it gets there. If your glove gets to the intersection first, you're screwed if the shot dips or gets deflected, because your glove will be out of position. The key to glove saves (for me, anyway) is SMOOTHNESS. If you do anything rapid or jerky with the glove (unless the shot is close-range or deflected) you will miss the save. As for those big-arc glove saves, they are performed just like any other glove save, only the movements are exaggerated and performed more quickly because the speed and placement of the shot requres the goalie to move the glove quickly and in a sweeping fashion to stop the shot. It looks harder than it is... > Last time, I got the general impression that you should watch the puck > all the way into the glove, but I find that on all close shots, I don't > have enough time. Do it just take time? -- I don't watch the puck *all* the way into the glove, but I do make sure it gets in there. (Since I have strong eye-hand coordination, glove work is pretty easy for me. Too bad I'm no good at explaining glove saves in words...) It *might* be necessary for you to watch the puck all the way, and if you aren't too experienced, you should DEFINITELY watch it! -- The closer the shot, the quicker your glove should get to the intersection point (but remember, not too far before the puck gets there!!) On *REALLY* close range shots (about 4-8 feet away) and deflections from the low slot area, my glove springs out there lightning-quick and then I watch the puck all the way into the web of the glove. You gotta be careful with deflections and close-range stuff! > Seeing as our sport is played in small sports halls, our playing area is > about half the size of an ice rink. This means that average shots are > about 4-5 meters from me. At a fast wrist shot speed, from this > distance, are you guys confident in reacting to a shot and saving it or > it is a case of not-enough-time-to-react so I'll cover up as much of the > net as possible. Ideally I'd like reactions that enable me to > confidently react in time and save shots from this distance. Does it > just take experience/hard work or is it asking too much. At the moment I > can confidently deal with shots from about twice that distance, but have > slight trouble on very hard slapshots. What about you guys, what > distance can you confidently save pretty much any wrist shot? (I mean so > that if you let it in you think to yourself, I messed up there, I > definately should have had that one). What about distances for making > catches confidently? -- Your rink size is interesting...the smallest rink I ever remember plaing roller hockey on was about 170' x 70'. I can trust my reactions to a distance of about 8 feet or so. If a shot is from any closer than 8 feet, then I react with a quick butterfly-drop and kick the pad out if the shot is low. If the shot is high, then I catch or block it from the butterfly position (I guess what I'm saying is, I always butterfly on close range shots). But it might not be useful for you to butterfly, since you are playing ball hockey. Shooters can slap a ball high just as easily as low, so it doesn't pay a whole lot to butterfly, as it is too much of a gamble when playing ball hockey. With a ball, you have to be ready to kick a pad out or get a hand on the ball, as more often than not, you only need to touch the ball to stop it. Just watch your rebounds :-) Balls are REALLY notorious for their rebounding ability...that's why the ball has been almost completely replaced by the puck here... > Is it a case of keeping calm, clearing your mind and concentrating on > the ball? -- Calm is key! > As for making saves within about a 8 meter range in general, my other > problem is that on big shots I often flinch, causing my eyes to blink > sometimes. Maybe it is a lack of confidence in my protection caused me > to be weary of injury? I know this can affect you badly. What about you -- You can't worry about the puck injuring you; after all, it is your job to stop it. If you're worried about it hurting you, you'll never touch it! Sometimes close-renge shots are saved by reflexive flinches (i.e. a glove snap or quick butterfly-drop), but blinking your eyes or turning your head away or anything like that won't help you stop the puck! NO FEAR!!!!!! > guys, how, in detail, do you actually make a save? Do you flinch on > close range hard shots? Should you really keep your eyes dead > concentrated watching the ball the whole time, reacting to it's every > movement? Is this the method for making close range saves with > confidence i.e. amazing glove catches or kick saves like the NHL > goalies? How do they do it, what are their methods? In Vladislav > Tretiak's book 'The Art of Goaltending', to save close range hard shots, > he recommends the style of anticipating where the shooter is going the > shoot before they shoot. i.e. watching the player's position and angle > of his/her stick. Does anyone use this method? What other methods do > people use? -- I usually watch for three things: 1. The puck (duh) 2. the shooters hips 3. a dip in the shooter's shoulder or a flinch of the stick. I'll explain: Obviously a shooter can't go anywhere without his hips! This helps me track my angles a little. Sometimes a shooter will give away his move without even knowing it. A shooter will often drop his shoulder when he is going to cut around your defenseman, for example. Shooters also can give away moves and dekes they are about to do when they jerk/flinch their arm or stick a little. Generally I've found that if a shooter ever raises his bottom elbow (the elbow that is lower on his stick) with the puck on his forehand, that he is going to either flip the puck up or cut sharp to his forehand side. Just watch out for little clues like that... > I so badly want to do whatever it takes to pluck pucks/balls out of the > air with my catcher, and make all the other close range saves > CONSISTANTLY and CONFIDENTLY (i.e. save them 90% of the time - at the > moment I'm about 70% on close range shots). -- Close range shots are pretty tough stuff when using a ball (I should know, I took a lot of 6 foot slapshots back in my roller hockey days); close range is much more manageable on ice or with a roller-puck. You'll get better with the catch glove through practice... > Hope you guys can solve this one! Thanks for anyone's help, > Dave Hurst, Bullets Goalie #66 Hope I could help! -- James McElfresh - Willowbrook Spiders #15 - Houston, TX -- GAA: 2.00 Email: HOCKEY6688@aol.com http://members.aol.com/hockey6688/temphome.htm "If I had to stop it with my mouth I would do it." - Martin Brodeur ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: Splits Date: 05 Jan 1997 12:43:47 -0500 (EST) At 11:32 PM 1/4/97 +0000, you wrote: >Hi guys, >Another question, I'm about 20cm away from doing the splits, how can I >finish it off? >-- >David Hurst > > > Why Worry about it... if you can get that low, thats good enough... the splits is something that is not used alot in todays game... If your a gymnast you need to do them, if your a goalie, dont worry... your risking becoming injured, and there are so many other easier ways of stopping the puck! Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: Reactions Date: 05 Jan 1997 13:10:03 -0500 (EST) >I play with a ball, but when I play Ice hockey, I find reactions easier, >so could the ball be much harder? > Probably because on ice you can slide, and its easier to move sideways... Therefor your legs are not "locked" so you dont have to think about moving the legs as much... >In detail, from the state of your mind and thoughts the movements of the >catcher, what is your method for catching a puck? What do you think >about? Do you have to be concentrated? Do you watch the puck go right in >your catcher? Do you tense your hand, with your catcher positioned along >the the puck's path or do you loosen up your arm and perform the >catching movement in the necessary place to catch the puck? How do you >perform big, circling glove saves? > Alot of the big catcher saves are simply a case of having the correct hand positioning before the shot, hands a little below waist level and infront... not back by your side, but out infront... this cuts the angle, many time the puck will be shot right into your glove, just by having the gloves held correctly. Many people say "Watch the puck all the way in!" well, this is impossible to do, unless your playing with people who shoot about 5 mph, on a 80 or 90 mph shot from 10 feet out, there is no way you even have time to think... This is where experience and anticipation comes into play... Knowing where they will shoot for and throwing your gear in front. No matter what anyone tells you, you cannot watch the hard fast shots into the glove, this is simply experience that makes these saves... I dont know how the eye and brain work togethor but I know that when I have made big saves to the side, I am not looking the puck all the way in, I see it leave the stick, and the next thing I know, its in the glove, the net or wide... Slow shots can be looked into the glove with little problem, these ones are also the ones, you should be getting your body infront of. BTW, those big circle catches.... Thats just for show... watch on TV the next time you see it... the pucks in the glove, then the arm goes around... At our goalie school, we did video analysis of the kids, on the one drill we had "Save of the Game" we would throw a puck into the glove, and they would do their best to "dress it up" with the big circle save...some were good... others were so phony it wasnt funny! >Last time, I got the general impression that you should watch the puck >all the way into the glove, but I find that on all close shots, I don't >have enough time. Do it just take time? > >Seeing as our sport is played in small sports halls, our playing area is >about half the size of an ice rink. This means that average shots are >about 4-5 meters from me. At a fast wrist shot speed, from this >distance, are you guys confident in reacting to a shot and saving it or >it is a case of not-enough-time-to-react so I'll cover up as much of the >net as possible. Ideally I'd like reactions that enable me to >confidently react in time and save shots from this distance. Does it >just take experience/hard work or is it asking too much. At the moment I >can confidently deal with shots from about twice that distance, but have >slight trouble on very hard slapshots. What about you guys, what >distance can you confidently save pretty much any wrist shot? (I mean so >that if you let it in you think to yourself, I messed up there, I >definately should have had that one). What about distances for making >catches confidently? > If your allowing alot of goals from close in, usually this is a sign your not getting out to the shooter, in Roller hockey I assume sliding is limited, so its not like ice where if I see a guy going to one time it, I know I can slide out in a butterfly and take it in the Belly area... Dont rely on the gloves as much as your pads and body, its common sense, throw a big area in front and its going to be harder to score, stick an 8 X 16 blocker infront, and its alot easier to find the net. Most big catch saves and blocker saves if you notice are on shots from the wings where you have time to react, most glove saves from the slot, are ones that are made as a last resort where the body couldnt get infront... Obviously, the distance thing is something that takes time... For me, I am more confident on gloving or blocking from 15 - 20 feet out... Those long shots where you have time to think..... those are the tough ones! Especially if they are floaters... Those pucks can drop at a moments notice! In tight... its all instincts... either you get these or you dont... I also find I am playing better when I am playing with guys of my own level JNR A players Semi Pro... as these guys have the puck and shoot real quick... The lessor players screw around with the puck, and their shots are slower... and you dont know where they are shooting... so its alot harder to make those save... It would be the same as saying to an NHL goalie to go out and play shinny with the boys playing pickup on Sunday morning, the goalies dropping to a lower level will look bad, they get beat easilly... just because their minds are at a higher level so their body reacts accordingly. For example, a friend of mine who played with the Senators in their first season, was out playing pick-up with guys that just play for fun... he was terrible... the next session he went out with guys who play US college and Canadian JNR B and A and he was spectacular (This was at a goalie school I worked one summer) All in the same day... so it wasnt like he was having a bad day or anything... its just the first session he was below his level... >Is it a case of keeping calm, clearing your mind and concentrating on >the ball? > >As for making saves within about a 8 meter range in general, my other >problem is that on big shots I often flinch, causing my eyes to blink >sometimes. Maybe it is a lack of confidence in my protection caused me >to be weary of injury? I know this can affect you badly. What about you >guys, how, in detail, do you actually make a save? Do you flinch on >close range hard shots? Should you really keep your eyes dead >concentrated watching the ball the whole time, reacting to it's every >movement? Is this the method for making close range saves with >confidence i.e. amazing glove catches or kick saves like the NHL >goalies? How do they do it, what are their methods? In Vladislav >Tretiak's book 'The Art of Goaltending', to save close range hard shots, >he recommends the style of anticipating where the shooter is going the >shoot before they shoot. i.e. watching the player's position and angle >of his/her stick. Does anyone use this method? What other methods do >people use? > If you flinch, this is scary... flinching is not acceptable if you play goal, usually, its cause by as you say, having been hurt, or thinking you will be hurt.... if you have decent upper body gear, you minimize the risk... Goalies using inferior gear, are the flinchers... In my opinion, goal is one of the safest positions on the ice... In my years, having played at very high levels of play, the only injuries I have ever had were 6 stitches in the chin (standing at the side of a net in practice with mask up and got hit with a deflected puck) Broken Ankle (going for a puck in the corner and tripping) and Broken Hand and Wrist (falling on it making a save on a deke) None of these injuries came from being hit with a puck while playing, or from collisions etc. >I so badly want to do whatever it takes to pluck pucks/balls out of the >air with my catcher, and make all the other close range saves >CONSISTANTLY and CONFIDENTLY (i.e. save them 90% of the time - at the >moment I'm about 70% on close range shots). > Dont worry so much about taking them out of the air...it looks great... but its a heckuvalot easier to move your body and get infront of them! >Hope you guys can solve this one! Thanks for anyone's help, > > >-- >Dave Hurst, Bullets Goalie #66 > > > Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ewoods1@minet.gov.mb.ca (Shawn Woods) Subject: Re: Splits Date: 05 Jan 1997 14:56:59 -0600 David, I am the same way. I am only 17, and I can go about 15cm away, but it has been very hard for me to get the last bit too. I believe it is very helpful for my game to have good flexibility. I feel more confident that I won't get injured, and I can most more freely and don't feel cramped up all the time. I would have to disagree with Scott that the splits are not really used today. I see them all the time. Richter is one to point out. He is so flexible and acrobatic, that he sometimes relies a little too much on his agility to make a save. But, all in all, his flexibility makes him a great goalie. Anyway, that's my point of view. I guess all we can do is keep working at the splits. I always believed that having another person push you down is a good way to get down. Shawn Woods #33 Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League 3.02 GAA >Hi guys, >Another question, I'm about 20cm away from doing the splits, how can I >finish it off? >-- >David Hurst > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ewoods1@minet.gov.mb.ca (Shawn Woods) Subject: Swedish National 18 and under team Date: 05 Jan 1997 15:05:13 -0600 This isn't about goaltending, but I just wanted to tell all of you that I had the pleasure Friday night to watch the Swedish National 18 and under hockey team play in my home town of Stonewall Manitoba, Canada. They played a local team here and killed them 11-1, but it was kinda cool to see a national team in a small town of about 3500 people. One of the players has the same agent as none other than the Great One, and is expected to be drafted in the first round either next year or the year after. So, I may have seen one of the next NHL greats. I can't remember the name offhand, but when I find it, I will tell you all. Shawn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ewoods1@minet.gov.mb.ca (Shawn Woods) Subject: Wide angle goals Date: 05 Jan 1997 15:09:13 -0600 I most recently have been having most troubles with wide angle goals. I mean the goals that are shot hard and low on the ice that come between the blueline and the faceoff dots inside the zone. I know I don't always have the angle right, but sometimes the puck goes right beside the outside of either skate and sneaks in the inside of the post. How do you stop these shots? I always try to stand up on them, but maybe I should be going down in the butterfly to stop them. What do you guys think, if you understand what I am talking about? Shawn Woods #33 Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League 3.02 GAA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blake Wehlage Subject: Richter (Was: Splits) Date: 05 Jan 1997 17:47:55 -0500 At 02:56 PM 1/5/97 -0600, Shawn Woods wrote: Richter is one to point out. >He is so flexible and acrobatic, that he sometimes relies a little too much >on his agility to make a save. But, all in all, his flexibility makes him a >great goalie. I'll have to disagree with ya on this one... Richter is a great goalie cause of his mind he knows where the puck is and where its gunna go... Flexibility, like pads, are a tool that truely don't make a goaltender. Blake** -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 G! d--- s++:- a---- C+++ UL P+ L++++ E+ W++$ N+++ o- K- w--- O- M++ V-- PS+++ PE-- Y++(+++) PGP+(-) t 5(+) X(-) R* tv++ b- DI+ D-- G+++(+) e*(--) h! r+ y*(--) ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Jackson Subject: Pad storage Date: 06 Jan 1997 07:51:59 -0500 For the holidays, I received a copy of "A day in the Life of the NHL" (A great book). My question is, in all of the pictures from locker rooms, it appeared like the goalies would store their pads upside down and so that the toe bridge area was resting on a bench does this help keep the internals in place or was it just a kawinky-dink of the pictures I saw? Mike "Thriller" Jackson Some days they are like beachballs, some days they are like BBs - Give me beachballs! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: Pad storage Date: 06 Jan 1997 09:23:31 -0500 (EST) At 07:51 AM 1/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >For the holidays, I received a copy of "A day in the Life of the NHL" (A great book). My question is, in all of the pictures from locker rooms, it appeared like the goalies would store their pads upside down and so that the toe bridge area was resting on a bench does this help keep the internals in place or was it just a kawinky-dink of the pictures I saw? > > > >Mike "Thriller" Jackson >Some days they are like beachballs, some days they are like BBs - Give me beachballs! > > Alot of goalies do this for a couple of reasons. 1. It allows the boot area of the pad to dry quicker, since if you stored the pad upright, the boot is on the floor, so the air does'nt get to it... 2. It also allows for the pad to form the backward S shape, and gives you a nice bend at the knee, as the bulk of the weight goes to the thigh forcing the pad to bend. You can do the same thing with the bend, by putting some type of weight on the thigh of the pad to help contour it. Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Wide angle goals Date: 06 Jan 1997 09:57:10 -0500 (EST) Well Shawn, The butterfly does work, or you could do a skate save as well. You need to make sure that you are coming out on the angle right. ie. coming straight out from the center of the net towards the puck. If you have the angle right, then you shoudl have no problem stopping the shot with either style. Granted, it is hard to learn when you are centered or not, but when you do learn, you will find yourself stopping tons more shots. I tend to use the posts as references just before I come out o the angle. I hope this helps, Rick "Tigger" #30 On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Shawn Woods wrote: > I most recently have been having most troubles with wide angle goals. I > mean the goals that are shot hard and low on the ice that come between the > blueline and the faceoff dots inside the zone. I know I don't always have > the angle right, but sometimes the puck goes right beside the outside of > either skate and sneaks in the inside of the post. How do you stop these > shots? I always try to stand up on them, but maybe I should be going down > in the butterfly to stop them. What do you guys think, if you understand > what I am talking about? > > Shawn Woods #33 > Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League > 3.02 GAA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: Wide angle goals Date: 06 Jan 1997 10:16:39 -0500 (EST) At 09:57 AM 1/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >Well Shawn, > The butterfly does work, or you could do a skate save as well. >You need to make sure that you are coming out on the angle right. ie. >coming straight out from the center of the net towards the puck. If you >have the angle right, then you shoudl have no problem stopping the shot >with either style. Granted, it is hard to learn when you are centered or >not, but when you do learn, you will find yourself stopping tons more >shots. I tend to use the posts as references just before I come out o the >angle. > I hope this helps, > Rick "Tigger" > #30 > >On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Shawn Woods wrote: > >> I most recently have been having most troubles with wide angle goals. I >> mean the goals that are shot hard and low on the ice that come between the >> blueline and the faceoff dots inside the zone. I know I don't always have >> the angle right, but sometimes the puck goes right beside the outside of >> either skate and sneaks in the inside of the post. How do you stop these >> shots? I always try to stand up on them, but maybe I should be going down >> in the butterfly to stop them. What do you guys think, if you understand >> what I am talking about? >> >> Shawn Woods #33 >> Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League >> 3.02 GAA >> >> > > > Also, if these goales are comming from moving shooters, (and I suspect they are as I know Shawn is a good goalie and wouldnt have problems from shots from a stationary player parked high by the boards) you have to remember as your getting older, the players are getting more experienced and smarter too, a player comming in and cutting to the inside, if they can do it, will get the goalie moving with them and try to shoot for the low side, on the side where the goalie is moving away from. This I suspect to be the problem. The solution to this situation is to make sure you are out of the net, and use the shuffle, this way as your moving you have a chance to be "set" for a short period of time. It is much easier to make a save from your set position than it is to while you are in motion from one side to the other. Many mistakes coaches make with goalies is have them use a full glide across the goal mouth. Here alot of times, the goalie turns their body, and is not square to the shooter. The key is to remain square to the PUCK not the players body, and to get set as you see the shot being set up. A goalie who is in constant motion will have a hard time... A good goalie is focused, and set when the shots are comming. A good drill to practice lateral movement is to use the glass in the arean as a mirror, your upper body, gloves and head should remain still, as you shuffle or t-push across the goal line. Have your coach set up drill (we call it knees, but, belly) when we work with goalies we have them set up in the net, and issue the following commands "SHUFFLE LEFT" "SHUFFLE RIGHT" CENTER ANGLE LEFT ANGLE RIGHT ANGLE "GLIDE RIGHT" "GLIDE LEFT" then mix in a few KNEES, BUTS and BELLIES this is great for lateral motion, and recovers. The main thing here is to be set, and focused on the puck. And get set for the shot, and concentrate on your positioning in the net... Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Re: Splits Date: 06 Jan 1997 10:29:30 -0800 (PST) Uh oh, I might be treading on thin ground. Judging from my limited experience, I must repectfully disagree. But, you do have a very good point about injury. From what I can tell, it's not good enough to be able to just do the splits. In fact, to help prevent injury, you should be flexible to go beyond the splits. Bascially, get in a split, then have a friend lift a leg. If you can do that, great. The reason I say that, is if your maximum flexibility is the split, then you can get in trouble. For example, you make a split to save a puck, you've maxed out your flexibility, now some goon forward from can't stop in time and crashes into your leg 'splitting' you even more- pulled groin city. But I think you should keep getting as flexible as you can. The lower you can get, is that much extra ground covered, from below you to the side where you kick your leg out. Tal At 12:43 PM 1/5/97 -0500, Scott Battram wrote: >At 11:32 PM 1/4/97 +0000, you wrote: >>Hi guys, >>Another question, I'm about 20cm away from doing the splits, how can I >>finish it off? >>-- >>David Hurst >> >> >> > >Why Worry about it... if you can get that low, thats good enough... the >splits is something that is not used alot in todays game... If your a >gymnast you need to do them, if your a goalie, dont worry... your risking >becoming injured, and there are so many other easier ways of stopping the puck! > >Scott Battram > >*** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** > Woodstock, Ontario Canada >TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 > >WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm > >Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 > > > ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Trevor Kidd Date: 06 Jan 1997 13:52:21 -0800 (PST) I noticed this at the Sharks game last Saturday. Trevor Kidd had some sort of 'flaps' attached to his leg pads covering the inside area of the calf. I guess it was used to protect the calf. It also looks like it can help when going down because it extends farther than the calf does. Therefore, he's got about an inch or two of extra cover if he goes to split or whatever. I haven't seen it on anyone else. Is that legal? Tal ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Trevor Kidd Date: 06 Jan 1997 14:18:38 -0800 haven't seen trevor's pads, but.... i modified my own pads some time back. one guy on our team liked to do slapshots from about ten feet out from the crease. normally this isn't a problem, but he had a very bad habit of NOT looking up, and in practice he nailed me on two seperate occasions on the inside of the calf, putting me out for a week while the resulting welt healed. the modifications run as follows: buy a cheap pair of shin guards. don't worry about the knee socket at all, what you're looking for is the actual shin area, and hopefully you can find a $14 set with slots in the plastic for the straps. with a sharp knife, cut the stitching that holds the knee cup to the rest of the pad. remove the knee cup. you are now left with a long fabric pad and a plastic shin guard. place your leg pads on the ground, and climb up on them as if you were going to put them on. hold the shin guard against your calf, and locate the appropriate straps that line up with the (hopefully already existing) slots. thread the straps through the slots. presto! you now have very nice back-of-calf protectors that ride overtop of any fabric flaps provided for that purpose. since installing this equipment, it's saved the backs of my calves from sticks and several nasty shots. i've had a number of people ask me where i got them, too. they don't "add" to your pads at all in terms of stopping shots...they fall in the domain of "protective body gear", much as i would classify a KlaviKollar, and i've never been hassled about it. plus, if some ref does have a problem, with the strap-through-slot installation they're very quick to be removed again if need be. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jwilson@wavefront.com (Jeff Wilson) Subject: Ideas for improving goalie headgear Date: 06 Jan 1997 17:31:42 -0600 (CST) The NHL's crackdown on goaltending equipment goes to show how in recent years how far goalies and the equipment makers have been pushing the envelope with regard to the rules. In the rulebook I have, it says that goalkeeping equipment must be constructed soley for the purpose of protecting the head any body, but it's plain to see that most modern equipment violates this rule by being either far larger than necessary, or posessing features whose sole benefit is to stop the puck. An extreme example of this would be that huge catch glove Cooper came out with a few years ago that had a "cage" on the wrist area - anybody remember that? What a monstrosity. However, one area that seems to be relatively unexploited is headgear. The trend seems to be toward more streamlined, lighter, more protective headgear, with little regard to its ability to stop the puck. Well, how about if headgear was designed with the intention of stopping the puck? I can imagine a few possibilities: 1. Make the helmet "blocker-like". Just take one of the old "waffle-board" style blockers, cut out some holes for the eyes and the mouth and just strap it on. I'm not sure how large one would want to make it, but I figure to be safe it should be at least 12" tall and about 10-11" wide to cover a decent range of head sizes. 2. Another way you could go with this is to take a regular helmet and strap on blocker "wings" on either side of the helmet to extend coverage. I'm not certain how large one would want to make these wings, I but I figure there would be some limit based upon the neck strength of the goalie and his ability to withstand the torque generated by shots which hit the outer edges of the wings. 3. Instead of just blocker wings, I suppose one could also have trapper wings too. The wings could be rigged to a lever inside the helmet that's setup so that when the goalie bites down, the wings close and catch the puck. A combination of one blocker and one trapper wing could be used - or perhaps goailes would want 3 wings - left, right, and top - for maximum puck stopping coverage. Well that's all I've got for now. Any other ideas??? -- Jeff Wilson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Stein" Subject: Re: Ideas for improving goal Date: 06 Jan 1997 18:53:24 U Reply to: RE>Ideas for improving goalie headgear Jeff Wilson's ideas for maximizing puck-stopping through expanded headgear are a great service to our craft. However, they suggest only enlarging the blocking area of the headgear. I believe we could also exploit the *surface* of the headgear in pursuit of lower goals-against...for example: 1. THE WEB-HEAD: Paint the mask in a pattern that resembles goal netting. Once the goalie is down in the crouch, the camoflauged mask tricks unsuspecting shooters into firing at what they believe is an open net. Are they in for a surprise! (Recommended for less concussion-prone goaltenders only.) 2. THE REFLECTOR: Great for stopping penalty shots -- A mask with specially developed chrome coating and mirror finish gives attacking player the alarming impression that a member of his own team is charging back at him. He turns around and never enters the crease again! Comes with handy bottle of Windex for mid-game wipedowns. 3. THE SLEEPY-HEAD: Mask is painted with an artfully rendered likeness of the goalie yawning. Shooters, always eager to "catch the goalie napping," launch ill-advised shots that are easily blocked by the goaltender...who hasn't been dozing at all! I look forward to more surefire marketing hits from all of you. Peter Stein San Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oliver Calderon Subject: Re: Reactions Date: 06 Jan 1997 17:45:56 -0500 On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, David Hurst wrote: > Hi folks, > > I started this topic of reaction speed a while ago, and I really > appreciated the responses and tips that were posted. I'm still having > trouble though. > Basically, I really want to improve the quality of my reactions, not > just the speed, but mainly the accuracy. Maybe one of my faults is that > I set my standards or targets too high? Maybe I just have to wait for > the experience (I've been playing 2 years), but I want to be much > better, and I'm willing to put in the hard work. I'm a fast goalie, and > very agile (I like to dive around saving all over the place). My > reactions are not poor or anything, I just want them to be better, > mainly at a consistant high level. Most of all I want to feel CONFIDENT > in saving the first shots, and then deal with rebounds later. > Particularly, I think the main weaknesses of my reactions are cathing > and blocking, my legs aren't too bad. So, here's some questions: > > I play with a ball, but when I play Ice hockey, I find reactions easier, > so could the ball be much harder? > I personally have the same problem - I react much better in ice hockey than in ball hockey. Personally, I find it is because the ball is so prone to dipping, diving and curving in any way it sees fit. > In detail, from the state of your mind and thoughts the movements of the > catcher, what is your method for catching a puck? What do you think > about? Do you have to be concentrated? Do you watch the puck go right in > your catcher? Do you tense your hand, with your catcher positioned along > the the puck's path or do you loosen up your arm and perform the > catching movement in the necessary place to catch the puck? How do you > perform big, circling glove saves? > Ok, I admit that in past posts I might have laid it on a little thick with the watch the puck into the glove thing, but I still think the idea is valid to a point. I do know that if I try making glove saves entirely on peripheal vision, I don't have as high a sucess rate as when I let myself turn my head a bit to place it more in my regular field of vision. Not so much watch it right into the glove, perhaps, but rather into the general vicinity of the glove where I can rely on my experience and hand-eye coordination enough that I know I'll catch it. Basically, I'm focused on the puck when it's shot. Then I watch it until it comes within range of my hand and I'm pretty sure I know where it's going, at which point I throw my catcher pocket at it. When I feel it in the pocket, I close the glove. I think that the trickiest thing with using your gloves is that is technique. It took me a long time to be able to learn to use my glove hand effectively - namely, by knowing where my catching pocket is, and using that to snare the puck, not my hand. Novice goalies have a tendancy to try to catch the puck with their hands. Due to the un-baseballglove like nature of a catcher, for me at least this meant i was knocking stuff down but not actually catching it. Blocker work is also tricky. I remember watching Andy Moog's Behind the Mask way back when, and he helped me get it down. Let the puck to come to you, then punch out at it, turning your wrist. This will knock the puck away. Previous to watching that tape I had a lot of problems trying to look just like the pros, who often seem like they just throw up their arm straight. I find it easier to make most of my blocker saves in front of me, where I can see the puck. > Last time, I got the general impression that you should watch the puck > all the way into the glove, but I find that on all close shots, I don't > have enough time. Do it just take time? > I think that long shots are all focus, timing and technique. You have so much time to stop a blue line shot you can see that it all comes down knowing when to "react" and try to stop the shot. When you're down to about 8-10 feet, I think you have to rely on good positioning (although you should be in position at all possible times), reflexes and technique. It is at point blank range (closer than 8 feet) and quick lateral passes with one timers which you have to think about taking away net and playing your percentages. I'm a butterfly goalie, so I'll generally butterfly to take away the bottom and hope I can react to high shots (since they are a lot slower than low shots). One guy I play shinny with has a hard shot - I think he used to play OHL, and I remember one game where he had two one timers, about three feet outside the top of the crease. Both times he just blasted a snapshot. Both times I came out and challenged in the butterfly. THe first time I made a high blocker save, the second time I gloved it low. It's difficult to make a reaction save point blank, however - it has to be purely instinctual. In that case I think those things are a part of experience. I don't think I could have made either of those saves two or three years ago. > Seeing as our sport is played in small sports halls, our playing area is > about half the size of an ice rink. This means that average shots are > about 4-5 meters from me. At a fast wrist shot speed, from this > distance, are you guys confident in reacting to a shot and saving it or > it is a case of not-enough-time-to-react so I'll cover up as much of the > net as possible. Ideally I'd like reactions that enable me to > confidently react in time and save shots from this distance. Does it > just take experience/hard work or is it asking too much. At the moment I > can confidently deal with shots from about twice that distance, but have > slight trouble on very hard slapshots. What about you guys, what > distance can you confidently save pretty much any wrist shot? (I mean so > that if you let it in you think to yourself, I messed up there, I > definately should have had that one). What about distances for making > catches confidently? > > Is it a case of keeping calm, clearing your mind and concentrating on > the ball? > > As for making saves within about a 8 meter range in general, my other > problem is that on big shots I often flinch, causing my eyes to blink > sometimes. Maybe it is a lack of confidence in my protection caused me > to be weary of injury? I know this can affect you badly. What about you > guys, how, in detail, do you actually make a save? Do you flinch on > close range hard shots? Should you really keep your eyes dead > concentrated watching the ball the whole time, reacting to it's every > movement? Is this the method for making close range saves with > confidence i.e. amazing glove catches or kick saves like the NHL > goalies? How do they do it, what are their methods? In Vladislav > Tretiak's book 'The Art of Goaltending', to save close range hard shots, > he recommends the style of anticipating where the shooter is going the > shoot before they shoot. i.e. watching the player's position and angle > of his/her stick. Does anyone use this method? What other methods do > people use? > I haven't flinched for years (except where some guy dekes me out of my jock), and neither should you. Maybe it's because I spent so much time letting my friends take slap shots from any range when we played road hockey, or because my equipment sucked so bad when I started playing ice. Whichever it was, as a goalie you have to resign yourself to some aches and pains, no matter how good your protection is. A few bruises aren't going to kill you, and if you really want to make all the saves, you can't flinch. You seem like you have the desire - just go out there, and face as much rubber as you can. Analyze what you're doing wrong, but always stay positive, and you'll find yourself improving as long as you put in the work. -MOSSey > I so badly want to do whatever it takes to pluck pucks/balls out of the > air with my catcher, and make all the other close range saves > CONSISTANTLY and CONFIDENTLY (i.e. save them 90% of the time - at the > moment I'm about 70% on close range shots). > > Hope you guys can solve this one! Thanks for anyone's help, > > > -- > Dave Hurst, Bullets Goalie #66 > > "Pain's Temporary - Glory's FOREVER" | Oliver "Moss" Calderon "Do not go gentle into that good night; | calderl@ecf.toronto.edu Rage, rage against the dying of the light." | ENGINEERS RULE THE WORLD!!!!! UoT MMS 9T9 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: YEDL33D@prodigy.com (BOBBIE STANFILL) Subject: Re: Trevor Kidd Date: 06 Jan 1997 22:09:19, -0500 Does Kidd wear Lefever pads? Our CHL goalie Steve Plouffe has an extra pad that goes almost the whole length of his lower leg, so that both sides of the inside/backside are covered. It's saved him from several zingers. Bobbie rollergoaliemom my goalie son tells me Kidd's pads are custom made Brian's ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Miracle Subject: Re: Ideas for improving goalie headgear Date: 07 Jan 1997 08:10:27 -0500 At 05:31 PM 1/6/97 -0600, Jeff Wilson wrote: >However, one area that seems to be relatively unexploited is headgear. The >trend seems to be toward more streamlined, lighter, more protective headgear, >with little regard to its ability to stop the puck. >1. Make the helmet "blocker-like". This goes against the "streamlined" concept which is probably there to prevent head injuries. It is kinda like a stealth plane, the helmet is designed to deflect the puck and its energy away from the head. If the helmet was flat in front, all of the energy would transfer directly to the noggin. I don't think it would take too long for goalies to abandon the blocker-like after a concussion or two. >3. Instead of just blocker wings, I suppose one could also have trapper wings > too. The wings could be rigged to a lever inside the helmet that's setup > so that when the goalie bites down, the wings close and catch the puck. > A combination of one blocker and one trapper wing could be used - or > perhaps goailes would want 3 wings - left, right, and top - for maximum > puck stopping coverage. How about instead of adding trappings (pun intended) you add electroincs, like a heads up display thats tied into the Fox Trak system so the goalie can see through screens. It could also calculate the initial vector and project a line on where the puck will go for the goalie which would improve his eye-hud-hand coordination. Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Miracle Subject: Re: Ideas for improving goal Date: 07 Jan 1997 08:46:32 -0500 > Reply to: RE>Ideas for improving goalie headgear > >Jeff Wilson's ideas for maximizing puck-stopping through expanded headgear are >a great service to our craft. However, they suggest only enlarging the >blocking area of the headgear. I believe we could also exploit the *surface* >of the headgear in pursuit of lower goals-against...for example: > >1. THE WEB-HEAD: Paint the mask in a pattern that resembles goal netting. >Once the goalie is down in the crouch, the camoflauged mask tricks >unsuspecting shooters into firing at what they believe is an open net. Are >they in for a surprise! (Recommended for less concussion-prone goaltenders >only.) This is a good idea, but we can expand it for the concussion-prone goalies. The mask is painted to match the jersey and has ripples to look like it is an extension of the chest protector. A Manniquine head is mounted to the top of the helmet and it wears a traditional goalie mask. The idea is that since most people take their first shot at the goalies head, the manniquine will draw the fire, provide additional blocking capacity, and minimize hits on the real head. Of course to make it better, paint the manniquine's mask with a target or real bright colors to help draw fire there. Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Branchaud Subject: Re: Trevor Kidd Date: 07 Jan 1997 10:26:26 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, BOBBIE STANFILL wrote: > Does Kidd wear Lefever pads? Our CHL goalie Steve Plouffe has an > extra pad that goes almost the whole length of his lower leg, so that both > sides of the inside/backside are covered. It's saved him from several > zingers. > > Bobbie rollergoaliemom > > my goalie son tells me Kidd's pads are custom made Brian's Ahhhh! He's still alive... (but unbelieveably swamped with work; anyone want to trade jobs with me?) ;) Trevor Kidd wears Brian's pads and gloves with a blazing flame graphic. I don't think anyone in the NHL is currently wearing Lefebvre pads (what with the ridiculous fee companies have to pay to display their name), although Koho endorsers Roy, Thibault, Fichaud, and Potvin all have their gear made by Michel Lefebvre. He builds the gear and slaps the Koho name on the gear. I find this strange, since Kharu owns Koho, that in turn own Heaton who supposedly make the Koho gear. Perhaps they make the retail Koho gear and Lefebvre makes the stuff for the pros? Lefebvre was one of the first pad makers I saw who had two calf protectors on his pads (for outside and inside protection that wraps around the leg completely. When I spoke with Scott Battram about the extras I wanted put on my pads, the outside calf protector was one of the first things I requested. Scott happily agreed to add that padding and it has saved me from one or two zingers... HotBranch! ************** Paul Branchaud (paul@vedge.com) "What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit Technical Writer names their team `The Ducks'?" Visual Edge Software, Ltd. Bugs Bunny to Daffy Duck in Space Jam **The Surgeon General has determined that the above-stated opinions are loopy and should not be inhaled or otherwise taken to be fact** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Chapman Subject: Re: Trevor Kidd Date: 07 Jan 1997 11:38:33 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -------- Most leg pads have a wrap-around calf protector of some type now of varying protection level and material type depending on cost of the pad. My Browns (as well as most, I believe) have a inside calf pad that extends down and covers the boot of my skate as well. Softens the irregular rebounds if the puck should hit there. On many occasions have I been saved by this calf pad and wouldn't play without one. My last set of Cooper 58's had no calf pad and there's nothing worse (well okay, some things are) than a big 'ol bruise and charlie horse from getting hit in the meat of the calf! The upper end Browns have a hinged, or should I say split, calf pad that wraps completely around the back of the leg. Another way to get inside & outside calf protection (as HotBranch alluded to with the Lefebvre pads) Speaking of Lefebvre, I had no idea the Roy, Thibault, Potvin, etc had their pads made by Lefebvre and Koho's name plastered on them. I figured they succoumbed to the endorsement $$'s as well as the elimination of small name manufacturers from NHL exposure from the advertisement fees the NHL charges. Belfour used to have Great Saves make his pads but now proudly bears the Cooper name. Are his pads still made by Great Saves and Cooper gets the credit to sell pads to the youngsters out there? Being a fanatic about equipment as Belfour supposedly is (titanium cage to save weight??!!!) I guess this may be the case. I think this might have been answered before, but why does the NHL require this fee for displaying name brands? (And what is the fee, I thought I remember $10,000) If it is such a relatively small number (for the NHL $$$ machine that is) why even bother? The NHL can make $10,000 in a heartbeat. And if it is alot more $$'s than $10k, do the equipment manufacturers figure, aw, what the heck, I can make up the cost of the fee through free advertisement by the players on TV and sell high $$ equipment to 10 year olds who outgrow their stuff in 3 years? Whoa! Didn't mean to sound so pessimistic there! It just seems the small guys deserve the chance for exposure at the highest level of competition if their product warrants it. Oh well, just my $.02 worth (although it might really only be worth about $0.01!!) Dave ---------------==============================--------------- David Chapman Internet: dchap@vnet.ibm.com IBM Microelectronics IBM net: dchap@btv.ibm.com (802) 769-7540 (tieline 446) vnet: dchap at btv ---------------==============================--------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jwilson@wavefront.com (Jeff Wilson) Subject: Re: Trevor Kidd Date: 07 Jan 1997 11:56:37 -0600 (CST) In a previous message, Dave Chapman wrote: > > I think this might have been answered before, but why does the NHL require > this fee for displaying name brands? (And what is the fee, I thought I > remember $10,000) If it is such a relatively small number (for the NHL $$$ > machine that is) why even bother? The NHL can make $10,000 in a heartbeat. I remeber a few years ago, that Grant Fuhr wanted to put the Pepsi logo on his goal pads for the All-Star game (and pocket a check from Pepsi), but the NHL stepped in prevented him from doing that. I think the NHL did the right thing. If they let him get away with that, then what's next? Maybe a Marlboro logo on the blocker and Budweiser on the stick. The $10,000 and the approval from the NHL for the logos is a way for the league to keep control over that, though of course they could still keep control without the $10,000... -- Jeff Wilson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ewoods1@minet.gov.mb.ca (Shawn Woods) Subject: Re: Ideas for improving goal Date: 07 Jan 1997 23:00:49 -0600 You know, as stupid as it may sound, I really like your idea of painting a WEB on the mask. That would look really cool. The next time I get my mask painted (after this year) I think I might even get a net painted on, and the team logo in the mesh. This isn't really to confuse the opposing team, but I think it would actually look really cool. Thanx for the idea! Shawn Woods #33 Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League 3.02 GAA > Reply to: RE>Ideas for improving goalie headgear > >Jeff Wilson's ideas for maximizing puck-stopping through expanded headgear are >a great service to our craft. However, they suggest only enlarging the >blocking area of the headgear. I believe we could also exploit the *surface* >of the headgear in pursuit of lower goals-against...for example: > >1. THE WEB-HEAD: Paint the mask in a pattern that resembles goal netting. >Once the goalie is down in the crouch, the camoflauged mask tricks >unsuspecting shooters into firing at what they believe is an open net. Are >they in for a surprise! (Recommended for less concussion-prone goaltenders >only.) > >2. THE REFLECTOR: Great for stopping penalty shots -- A mask with specially >developed chrome coating and mirror finish gives attacking player the alarming >impression that a member of his own team is charging back at him. He turns >around and never enters the crease again! Comes with handy bottle of Windex >for mid-game wipedowns. > >3. THE SLEEPY-HEAD: Mask is painted with an artfully rendered likeness of the >goalie yawning. Shooters, always eager to "catch the goalie napping," launch >ill-advised shots that are easily blocked by the goaltender...who hasn't been >dozing at all! > >I look forward to more surefire marketing hits from all of you. > >Peter Stein >San Francisco > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Re: Ideas for improving goal Date: 08 Jan 1997 10:58:50 -0800 (PST) Actually, I was seriously considering having swiss cheese painted on my helmet. Hell, if you can' laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at? Tal At 11:00 PM 1/7/97 -0600, Shawn Woods wrote: >You know, as stupid as it may sound, I really like your idea of painting a >WEB on the mask. That would look really cool. The next time I get my mask >painted (after this year) I think I might even get a net painted on, and the >team logo in the mesh. This isn't really to confuse the opposing team, but >I think it would actually look really cool. Thanx for the idea! > >Shawn Woods #33 >Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League >3.02 GAA > >> Reply to: RE>Ideas for improving goalie headgear >> >>Jeff Wilson's ideas for maximizing puck-stopping through expanded headgear are >>a great service to our craft. However, they suggest only enlarging the >>blocking area of the headgear. I believe we could also exploit the *surface* >>of the headgear in pursuit of lower goals-against...for example: >> >>1. THE WEB-HEAD: Paint the mask in a pattern that resembles goal netting. >>Once the goalie is down in the crouch, the camoflauged mask tricks >>unsuspecting shooters into firing at what they believe is an open net. Are >>they in for a surprise! (Recommended for less concussion-prone goaltenders >>only.) >> >>2. THE REFLECTOR: Great for stopping penalty shots -- A mask with specially >>developed chrome coating and mirror finish gives attacking player the alarming >>impression that a member of his own team is charging back at him. He turns >>around and never enters the crease again! Comes with handy bottle of Windex >>for mid-game wipedowns. >> >>3. THE SLEEPY-HEAD: Mask is painted with an artfully rendered likeness of the >>goalie yawning. Shooters, always eager to "catch the goalie napping," launch >>ill-advised shots that are easily blocked by the goaltender...who hasn't been >>dozing at all! >> >>I look forward to more surefire marketing hits from all of you. >> >>Peter Stein >>San Francisco >> >> >> >> > > > ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Jersey Date: 10 Jan 1997 10:20:44 -0800 (PST) I've been tryin quite unnsuccessfully to find this jersey and this is my last outlet. I was checking out the book "A Day in the Life of Hockey." Or something like that. Anyway, they had this picture of a woman in an Israli ice rink wearing what I assume is the jersey of the Israeli national team. Now before you start chucking, "ice? in the Middle East? Why, that's as beleiveable as Jamaican bobsledding!" they are getting a lot of Russians over there. Anyway, being that I was born there, I would really like to get one of those jerseys. Anyone have any ideas? Tal ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Foundation Comics Subject: goaliechat www/irc.... Date: 10 Jan 1997 15:36:51 -0600 Heya.. it's been a while since I've really checked out the www chat.. finally dropped by today and noticed it was empty.. but as usual full of past chats heh. I wasn't sure how many on the list still go or what.. just thought I'd mention again, that some of us still wander on irc(effnet) and occasionally drop by that webpage. Anyway.. looks like a lot of good discussions are being done there.. gear/styles/schools.. attitudes.. (been a while since I've posted here too) best of luck, Cynthia-La Gardienne Texanique... Visit the Foundation Comics Webpage, home of SECOND RATE HEROES, picked by the COMIC SHOP NEWS as an Overlooked Sizzler of the Month, http://www.metronet.com/~gronlund/foundation.html or write to us at: * Issue #2: Solicits in the Foundation Comics * February PREVIEWS catalogue, P.O. Box 1143 * for an April, 97 release. Grapevine, Tx 76099 * Back issues still available. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: YEDL33D@prodigy.com (BOBBIE STANFILL) Subject: Re: goaliechat www/irc.... Date: 11 Jan 1997 00:47:20, -0500 Umm, where is this? where are the past chats? this computer won't do IRC, but the other one might. --[ ORIGINAL MESSAGE ]----------------- >Heya.. it's been a while since I've really checked out the www chat.. >Foundation Comics * February PREVIEWS catalogue, P.O. Box 1143 * for an April, 97 release. Grapevine, Tx 76099 * Back issues still available. Really? In Wineville?? I might have to drive the goaliekid by & wave at the building. Robyn in Cowtown, rollergoalie mom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Foundation Comics Subject: Re: goaliechat www/irc.... Date: 11 Jan 1997 01:01:09 -0600 would've replied in person.. but just in case anyone else wants to know(can't believe I forgot to mention urls and servers etc..sheesh At 12:47 AM 1/11/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Umm, where is this? where are the past chats? this computer won't do IRC, >but the other one might. well there really isn't anything on effnet(where I hang) I mostly hang on #hockey.. and there're a few goalies I know there(really no one from this list I think). And as far as the Crease... I have a link for it on my page(don't have the Creases' link handy.. if anyone wants to post that that's cool.. like I said.. I have a link under goalie chat) www.metronet.com/~gronlund/cynth/goalie.html (scroll past my boring bio..heh) >Really? In Wineville?? I might have to drive the goaliekid by & wave at >the building. > >Robyn in Cowtown, rollergoalie mom yup! small world I guess! one of the characters in our comic is from Ft. Worth(she's not the hockey player tho'.. oh well :) Cynthia- La Gardienne Texanique Visit the Foundation Comics Webpage, home of SECOND RATE HEROES, picked by the COMIC SHOP NEWS as an Overlooked Sizzler of the Month, http://www.metronet.com/~gronlund/foundation.html or write to us at: * Issue #2: Solicits in the Foundation Comics * February PREVIEWS catalogue, P.O. Box 1143 * for an April, 97 release. Grapevine, Tx 76099 * Back issues still available. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Sanyal" Subject: Web Page Date: 11 Jan 1997 15:50:03 -0500 Hello folks! I have considerably renovated my web page - did everything from scratch actually. I have a hockey page there too, but I need some ideas and suggestions. More hockey links would be great too. If you have a chance, please take a look at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1785 Take care Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Erik Olsen Subject: All Star Game Date: 12 Jan 1997 14:33:16 -0800 Hey all, A while back I asked if anyone knew how to get tickets to the All star Game in San Jose this year. It's next weekend, and if the tickets are for sale anywhere, I haven't found them. If anyone has any info, or is going to the game, let me know. If I can get tickets, we'll hook-up or something... EGO -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < "I find your lack of Faith...disturbing." > < -Darth Vader > < Ego@thehouse.sparks.nv.us > < http://www.greatbasin.net/~thehous > < http://www.directcon.net/olsen > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SMILE2368@aol.com Subject: Pants??? Date: 12 Jan 1997 19:12:53 -0500 (EST) I have outgrown my old goalie pants and am looking for new ones. I have tried the Vaughns and the CCMs but I don't like the way that they fit. Do you guys/girls have any suggestions on which pants I should buy that won't restrict my movement (aren't too puffy) but will still give me good protection?? EDG33 (oh yeah I am a bantam, 5'3-5'4) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blake Wehlage Subject: Re: Pants??? Date: 12 Jan 1997 19:30:03 -0500 At 07:12 PM 1/12/97 -0500, SMILE2368@aol.com wrote: >I have outgrown my old goalie pants and am looking for new ones. I have >tried the Vaughns and the CCMs but I don't like the way that they fit. Do >you guys/girls have any suggestions on which pants I should buy that won't >restrict my movement (aren't too puffy) but will still give me good >protection?? >EDG33 >(oh yeah I am a bantam, 5'3-5'4) > You might want to look into Louisville's TPS Goal Pant.... I have a pair and they have that coolmax stuff in them and they dry pretty fast and also have good air flow in them.... Blake** -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 G! d--- s++:- a---- C+++ UL P+ L++++ E+ W++$ N+++ o- K- w--- O- M++ V-- PS+++ PE-- Y++(+++) PGP+(-) t 5(+) X(-) R* tv++ b- DI+ D-- G+++(+) e*(--) h! r+ y*(--) ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SexyStangs@aol.com Subject: Re: Pants??? Date: 12 Jan 1997 20:08:20 -0500 (EST) Could anyone help me on what king of pants I can buy? I need a big size but I can't seem to find any that fit right. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Malicki" Subject: Re: Pants??? Date: 12 Jan 1997 22:49:47 -0500 Howdy all: Until Scott comes out with a pair of pants, I'm using the Koho Revolution pants. They provide excellent protection, and they came in a size 40, which is nice, for I have wide hips. I would recommend them highly. Matt Malicki ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GOALIEBABE@aol.com Subject: Re: Pants??? Date: 12 Jan 1997 23:54:50 -0500 (EST) I'm 5'2" 108lbs... I'ved tried a few pair... I like Tackla Keeper pants the best... I think they have the best protection.. And aren't to bulky... Hope this helps... GOALIEBABE... 33 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Steinhart Subject: Re: Pants??? Date: 12 Jan 1997 23:49:17 -0700 (MST) Reply to GOALIEBABE@aol.com: > > I'm 5'2" 108lbs... I'ved tried a few pair... I like Tackla Keeper pants > the best... I think they have the best protection.. And aren't to bulky... I'm 5'9", 190 lbs., 36" waist, i.e. a big frame. I've like my Louisville TPS pants, and they were only $60 from Perani's. One of these days I'll upgrade and I've been considering the Heaton 60Z/90Z series. I know several goalers who use the Heatons and really like them. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "MorrisGC" Subject: Re: Pants??? Date: 13 Jan 1997 09:49:30 PDT I like my Brown JB905s. They might take a while to get used to if you have older pants because they have some additional padding on the inner thigh and on the outer hips. I think this maybe like going from Cooper SA95 arm pads to a modern chest and arm protector i.e. just a matter of getting used to the extra protection. I originally took out some of the inner thigh protection because it bothered me but I've since put it back in and it has saved a couple of goals this season. It allows you to have a wider stance and not have any openings between your legs in the pants area. I tried on the Louisville and they were fine. They had some nice features as well. George Morris _______________________________________________________________________________ I have outgrown my old goalie pants and am looking for new ones. I have tried the Vaughns and the CCMs but I don't like the way that they fit. Do you guys/girls have any suggestions on which pants I should buy that won't restrict my movement (aren't too puffy) but will still give me good protection?? EDG33 (oh yeah I am a bantam, 5'3-5'4) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: YEDL33D@prodigy.com (BOBBIE STANFILL) Subject: Re: Jersey Date: 13 Jan 1997 21:34:23, -0500 >I've been tryin quite unnsuccessfully to find this jersey and this is my >last outlet. Don't know if this will help you, but it's worth a shot. The info came from *Prodigy's Hockey BB, last year in March, for someone asking abou Czech jerseys. You might want to try: Silvestri Sports Ltd. 503 Niagara Street Welland, Ontario L3C 1L7 Canada 1.905.788.3722 also online http://www.iaw.on.ca/ss e-mail-ss@iaw.on.ca They advertise International jerseys starting at $71.95. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregg Johnson Subject: new Bauer gear! Date: 14 Jan 1997 13:15:19 -0500 Bauer has created separate and autonomous business unit for the goalie equipment market. including the customizing options unique to this business. The independent unit will have just one focus, and will be able to react quicker and more effectively to changing goalie-market needs, Bauer said. For next season, Bauer is introducing a new top-end Reactor 6 program of equipment (five pieces E total). The new GP 6000 goal pad in this series features a two-way-axis knee that allow the shin and thigh to move in harmony with a goalie's leg. "Especially designed for the butterfly style. this two- way-axis system provides unparalleled fit, flexibility and stopping power," Bauer said. "Coupled with the knee lock, anatomical shin lock and patented skate lock, the entire pad is truly an extension of the goalie's leg." The GM6OOOC catch glove features an Arc pocket combined with a rounded and flared cuff to minimize rebounds. On the back side, and visible with an open-back cuff is an adjustable finger strap (this strap. coupled with the hand and wrist straps, allow the pocket to be opened quickly and completely). Still in the same family. the new GM 6000S blocker features a front pad that is always positioned for optimal rebound direction. The back side integrates a scalloped cuff for better bodypad interface and freer wrist movements. Rounded and tapered back-side edges offer superior paddledown positioning. The UB 6000 body pad features tailored padding and strategically placed flex joints in the arms, shoulders and body for faster motion. The new GHP 6000 (goal pads feature an ErgoFlex thigh pad that protects the lower part of the thigh and knee when down. Combined with the interior floating belt, the pant provides a full fit without restricting movement. For next season, the Reactor 5 and 4 series of goalie equipment will feature new color combinations, new icons and identification. The Reactor 3 series has been totally redesigned for l997/98 to include a complete line of lightweight, protective pads, catcher, blocker upper body and pants. "A distinctive graphic sewn overlay has been incorporated onto the goaltender's pads, catch glove and blocker that will create a lasting visual impression for enhanced shelf appeal and POP impact," Bauer said. Reactor 3 is described as Bauer's "meat and potatoes" in the goalie equipment market. Reactor I is a full program of entry-level and price point products upgraded with Bauer's new icons and identification. It's targeted at entry-level adult and novice players - at a price point level aggressive enough for the league-based market. If people fine this infor helpful, I can get more on other new equipment! Let me know, Gregg gjohnson@mail.portup.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kelsey, Bill" Subject: Another set of Battram Pads on order Date: 14 Jan 1997 14:27:42 -5 This past week I called Scott and ordered a set of his '2000 pads. We spent well over half an hour on the phone discussing the features of the pads, and in the end he convinced me to get the '2000's rather than the '1000's. He did not try to sell me the better pads - he just had all the right answers to my questions. When they arrive (in a couple of weeks), I'll let the list know how they work out. If anyone on the list is in NW Ohio and would like to see them, I play at both the Findlay and Bowling Green ice rinks. Drop me an e-mail.... The thing that really convinced me that it was time for a new set of pads was when I measured the width of my current set (after reading all the posts on the list about pad width!) - I found out that a new set will give me an additional 6" of width - that should be a few more saves per year.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregg Johnson Subject: Brian's, CCM and Ferlands Date: 14 Jan 1997 14:41:32 -0500 Brian's New Heritage Series: The color scheme returns goalie equipment to its authentic roots, as it combines the bucky brown leather look with the established. official NHL colors." Brian's said. "Bucky brown may look like leather, but it has al the strength and feel of modern-day Clarino. The old-style colors and the new lightweight materials combine the comfort and Protection of todays game with the history and tradition of yesteryear." New Products from Brian's for next season include the Air Ace catcher This new, super-lightweight pro catcher features A.P.s. (Air Pac System), game ready break-in, skate lace pocket to cushion the sweet spot and anew Flexicuff to enhance shooting ability. The new Airlite blocker is billed as "the industry's lightest pro blocker" It features a bevelled nose to promote the drop paddle style, pre-curved board for open cuff and new graphics. The Airlite blocker also comes in a junior version. And, the new Alite arm and chest protector features a Kevlar spinal protector, free-moving elbows. double shoulder caps, contoured wing wraps - excellent superlight protection. CCM INTRODUCES NEW GOALIE PANT LINE: CCM/Sport Mask will introduce a new goalie pant line for the upcoming 1997/98 season. Patent Pending features include an ergodynamic back/kidney section to ensure that the back of the pant follows a goalie's movements. and an elastic insert on the upper back to make the pant more flexible and breathable. The new pants have flat Protection in the thighs, as well as interior leg protection. "Rebounds are controlled more easily and the pant provides the goalie with better net coverage." CCM said. The HP620 pro pant has an integrated fly which provides protection in front and on the sides. The new CCM goalie pant line is comprised of three Supra pants the HP6200, the HP420G and the HPZ2OG. CCM, Supra graphics have been updated for next season. with a new Ergodynamic Protection System logo featured on the back/kidney section. FERLAND REVAMPS ITS GOALIE LINE: Ferland's goalie equipment line has been totally revamped for next season. "All of Ferland'5 catch gloves have been totally redesigned for improved closing and easier adjustment," said Igloo Vikski. "Ferland's 1997 goalie line will feature five new series, packed with new features and updated designs at exceptionally competitive prices." Will do more infor later, Gregg gjohnson@mail.portup.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jlove042@aol.com Subject: Hockey Companies Date: 14 Jan 1997 14:44:51 -0500 (EST) Any one know of good companies that have catalogues I have Ocean Hockey # is 1-800-631-2159 Rupp's # 1-800-344-0263 please let me know John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Subject: Hockey Companies Date: 14 Jan 1997 11:57:36 -0800 Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at ^ per incident. Your original email follows: Any one know of good companies that have catalogues I have Ocean Hockey # is 1-800-631-2159 Rupp's # 1-800-344-0263 please let me know John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Hockey Companies Date: 14 Jan 1997 12:24:40 -0800 Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at ^ per incident. Your original email follows: Any one know of good companies that have catalogues I have Ocean Hockey # is 1-800-631-2159 Rupp's # 1-800-344-0263 please let me know John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Hockey Companies Date: 14 Jan 1997 12:37:20 -0800 Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at ^ per incident. Your original email follows: Any one know of good companies that have catalogues I have Ocean Hockey # is 1-800-631-2159 Rupp's # 1-800-344-0263 please let me know John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: What was that? Date: 14 Jan 1997 15:45:13 -0500 Hey y'all, What was that message that had to do with the: "WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident."????? What is that supposed to mean? CAn we not exchange equipment supplier phone numbers anymore? -Rick "Tigger" Johnson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Hockey Companies Date: 14 Jan 1997 12:50:47 -0800 Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at ^ per incident. Your original email follows: Any one know of good companies that have catalogues I have Ocean Hockey # is 1-800-631-2159 Rupp's # 1-800-344-0263 please let me know John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Hockey Companies Date: 14 Jan 1997 13:03:17 -0800 Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident. Your original email follows: Email from your site is being shunned because your ISP either actively supports email spamming, or does not take appropriate actions to stop spamming from your site. If your mail was, in fact, not spam, please resend it using the keyword 'not-spam' in the Subject line. WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at ^ per incident. Your original email follows: Any one know of good companies that have catalogues I have Ocean Hockey # is 1-800-631-2159 Rupp's # 1-800-344-0263 please let me know John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: What was that? Date: 14 Jan 1997 13:05:00 -0800 Rick Johnson asks: What was that message that had to do with the: "WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident."????? THAT was procmail bouncing email back to a shunned site. it's the new wave in spam fighting software. What is that supposed to mean? someone send email to the list from a shunned site, and my procmail program bounced it back. rather than bounce it back to the sender, it apparently bounced it back to the entire list. this should be fixed in the next ten minutes; i'll add the goalie list to the "passthrough" filter. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregg Johnson Subject: Flite, Franklin and Heatons new items Date: 14 Jan 1997 18:16:36 -0500 FLITE - "INTERCEPTOR' GOALIE EQUIPMENT: Flite Hockey, until now known for its skates, will enter the goalie equipment market in 1997. Flite's new line of goalie pads for both ice hockey and roller hockey - together with catchers and blockers. This new equipment has been designed 100% by the pros and will contain all the best materials," Gerry McSorley at Flite said. 'It will be superior in lightness and flexibility." FRANKLIN - LATEST ACD-2 TECHNOLOGY: Franklin will introduce its new ACD-2 Air Cooled Design technology into goalie catch mitts and blockers for next season. "ACD-2 is the next generation in the Franklin Air Cooled Design concept." the company said. "At the heart of the ACD-2 concept is a patent pending design concept of Contoured Foam Design. Contour Foam provides breath ability in all directions (vertical and horizontal axis), along with custom anatomical fit and graduated impact absorption." The Franklin THT goalie catch mitts and blockers for 1997 will feature this technology. HEATON - NEW MARTIN BRODEUR GOALIE LINE: Heaton is introducing a new Martin Brodeur goalie equipment line - pads, catcher. blocker and equipment bag - for the upcoming 1997/98 season. Each piece in the program will feature the 'gatekeeper" Brodeur icon of his New Jersey Devils. The new GP6100 Helite IV Brodeur pads have been developed around Martin Brodeur's playing style. The inside features a composite core of high-density and low-density foam. The outside face is Clarino. The pads are hand-stuffed with teflon-treated polyester fibers. The vertical roll is stuffed with high-density foam pieces. The pads have a nylon backing, nash knee flaps and a double calf guard. The attachment has seven heavy-duty leather straps and metal buckles. The new CM 6100 Helite IV Brodeur catcher has a Clarino catching surface and blocking cuff face, is closed with 100% nylon lace and is perforated on the back hand. The inside is compression-molded. with a one-piece plastic thumb. The palm has felt and the finger tip has molded polyurethane. This glove has an extra-long trap. The new GB Helite lv Brodeur blocker is compression-molded on the inside, with a one-piece plastic face and molded lightweight foam for deflection. The outside features a Clarino face, 400 denier nylon underbody. Cordura toe gusset and a triple-knit nylon cuff cover. The palm is nash padded. The EBO 6100 Helite IV Brodeur equipment bag has end-to-end detachable straps, is made from 420 vinyl-coated nylon and has two-way, heavy-duty nylon zippers. More on the way, Gregg gjohnson@mail.portup.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Subject: Re: What was that? Date: 14 Jan 1997 17:40:38 -0600 (CST) Its supposta keep spamers from sending you email, because attaching that to the end of a message makes it a legally binding agreement to spammers. On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Tigger wrote: > Hey y'all, > What was that message that had to do with the: > "WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be > billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident."????? > What is that supposed to mean? CAn we not exchange equipment supplier phone > numbers anymore? > -Rick "Tigger" Johnson > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Subject: Re: What was that? Date: 14 Jan 1997 17:42:39 -0600 (CST) OK.. got this message before the other one from the ISP.. That ISP has taken it upon themselves to filter out mail from ISP's that they believe are homes to spammers. Only way around that is to put the "not-spam" in the subject, talk to your ISP about it, or change isp's.. This message was in reference to the person who sent the ad about mail-order catalogs and their ISP Mark On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Tigger wrote: > Hey y'all, > What was that message that had to do with the: > "WARNING: Unsolicited commercial use of this emailbox will be > billed back at five hundred dollars US per incident."????? > What is that supposed to mean? CAn we not exchange equipment supplier phone > numbers anymore? > -Rick "Tigger" Johnson > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregg Johnson Subject: ITECH, Date: 14 Jan 1997 18:57:28 -0500 ITECH BRANCHES INTO MORE GOALIE EQUIPMENT: The latest addition to Itech's Profile mask series is the new Profile Zytel Decal mask, featuring a lightweight and durable Zytel shell. to be shown at Montreal. The Model 935D mask has a superior-density liner. adjustable chin cup. and approved electrostatically painted carbon steel wire for optimum vision and protection. It's CSA and HFCC certified and comes in a size range from 6-3/4 to 7-1/8-in. It will be available in Web. Stripes and Flame graphics. The goalie program for next season also includes a new C1)9000 pro chest protector. This contemporary style chest and arm protector. features a polyester 600 denier construction with MicroSafe inner liner, high-density foam impact-absorbing modules. adjustable arms and elbows and ambidextrous design. It's available in M-L-XL sizes in the color black. Next year's goalie program will also include a new CH9OO junior catcher This nylon and Jenrino glove has a deep trapping design. laced cuff adjustment. large backhand protective plate and is available regular and full right in black. The companion SH900 junior nylon blocker features an easy access cuff with lace adjustment, curved blocker surface, unique padded finger plates. and padded thumb, It's also available in regular and full right in black. JOHN BROWN NEW PRODUCTS: John Brown will introduce II new models of goal pads along with three chest and arm models, four new catch and blocker models, two new models of goalie pants and a womens goalie line. In goal pads, the Elite line has been redesigned with new graphics and features. The new models include the JB291 pro pad, JB212 senior, JB181 intermediate pad and the JB151 junior goal pad. The Excel series has been expanded to include the JB2O2 senior and the JBl47 junior pad. "All Elite and Excel pads have unique shooter-distracting graphics," John Brown said. New in the mid-range price point categories are the JB200 senior. JB175 intermediate and JBI4S junior. All new pads are made from synthetic leather The low-end (price point) Jll187 senior and JBI45 junior pads are made of Cordura nylon. The new JB552 pro and JB301 junior chest and arm feature enhanced shoulder protection and a flexible chest pad. The JB306 junior features a new arm flap and improved chest pad. The new JB76 pro and JB66 junior pro Elite catch gloves feature new graphics, a deeper pocket and internal hand for improved puck control. The JB71 senior and JB61 junior catch are made from synthetic leather and feature a new one-piece thumb for improved protection durability. The JB56 pro and JB46 junior pro Elite blockers have new graphics and the Brown molded thumb shield for added hand protection. The JB51 senior and JB41 junior blockers are made from synthetic leather with new pro palms and vented gussets. The JB906 pro and JB856 junior pro pants have a new full-cut appearance to help the goalie to he square to the shooter The new extended collar increases comfort, protection and flexibility. John Brown will introduce its new "7" series of women's goalie products. The JB7501 pro and JB7401 senior chest and arm protectors feature a unique chest protection system while maintaining flexibility and comfort. The JB776 catch and JB756 blocker feature the new Elite series graphics, but have design changes to accommodate a woman's smaller hand. The JB771 senior catch and JB751 senior blocker also have the fit and comfort features built into the women's Elite gloves. The JB7906 pro and JB7900 senior goal pants are designed for the female anatomy with wider hips and shorter thighs. KOHO REVOLUTION CLASSIC BY LEFEVRE LINE: The Koho Revolution Classic by Lefevre. endorsed and worn by Montreal Canadiens star Jocelyn Thibault. will be taken to retail for the 1997/98 season. It will be offered in Montreal, Boston and Toronto colors (as well as custom colors). The new 530 Classic Lefevre goal pad features traditional Jenrino construction, with diagonal graphics at the shin. It is stuffed with polyester liners and foams for lightness and performance. These pads have seven leather straps and an added toe lace arrangement with inside and outside calf guards Sizes available an 31-in. to 36-in. The new 530 Classic catch glove also features traditional Jenrino construction and a wide catching surface with a deep pocket. With a molded blocking cuff for more protection and stopping surface. This catch glove also has a neoprene inner glove for added comfort and performance. And the 530 Classic Lfevre blocker has a molded face with slanted front edge for maximum stopping surface and rebound control. This blocker features full side finger coverage as well as an extra thumb side protector. Inside the glove is a "bumper" for wrist protection and comfort. Two more to go: Gregg gjohnson@mail.portup.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: What was that? Date: 14 Jan 1997 16:19:11 -0800 Mark writes: OK.. got this message before the other one from the ISP.. That ISP has taken it upon themselves to filter out mail from ISP's that they believe are homes to spammers. Only way around that is to put the "not-spam" in the subject, talk to your ISP about it, or change isp's.. This message was in reference to the person who sent the ad about mail-order catalogs and their ISP well, that's partially correct. procmail has been corrected so that any email coming from the goalie mailing list should go through unfiltered. if anyone sees another bounce message, could they forward it to me so i can finish debugging the recipe? the spam problems that the procmail filter are in response to have never generated from the goalie mailing list, but rather from various commercial businesses who are culling email addresses from usenet. sadly, some ISPs either don't have a good anti-spam policy, or don't enforce it. the only way to stop email spamming is to boycott those sites that don't enforce anti-spam policies...which means refusing email from ANY user on that system. but again, if you're just posting to this list, it should go through okay now. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregg Johnson Subject: ITECH, HEATON MASKS and VAUGHN Date: 14 Jan 1997 19:31:15 -0500 KOHO & HEATON INTRODUCE NEW GOALIE MASKS: Koho and Heaton will introduce new goalie masks for the 1997/98 season - Koho with its new 550 and 450 Senior and 450 Junior models, and Heaton with its new Helite IV 6000 and 3000 Senior and 3000 Junior models. The shell of the new Koho 550 Senior is a fiberglass layup construction of mat, woven roving and fine cloth with Kevlar reinforcement throughout the entire shell, "All shells are manufactured with Premium isophatalic Tooling Resign and the aerodynamically sculpted styling is safety engineered." Koho said. The high-quality 304 stainless steel cage is shaped utilizing computerized robotics for exact specs. The mask features a 1/4-inch Rubatex foam liner that offers comfort and eliminates shock vibrations. Available with pro-style "cat cage" (white only) and all colors. Fits sizes 7 to 7-3/4. The Koho 450 Senior multi-layered fiberglass shell utilizes an exclusive mix of mat, woven roving and fine cloth that is double-reinforced in the chin area. Kevlar reinforcement is strategically placed in the forehead and chin areas. The carbon steel cage is produced by computer robotics for optimum fit. In this model, 3/8-in. Robatex foam is positioned to optimize air flow. comfort and protection. The chin cup is adjustable. This CSA and HECC-approved mask is Available in all colors and designs - in sizes 7 to 7-3/4 The Koho 450 junior is the same construction as the senior model and, because it fits sizes 6-1/2 to 7-1/8 is also excellent for women's hockey. The new Heaton Helite IV 6000 has the extended throat that replicates the masks currently worn by many NHL goaltenders. The construction. sizes and colors of the mask are the same as the Koho 550. The Heaton 3000 Senior also has the extended throat that replicates the masks currently worn in the NHL. The construction, sizes and colors of this mask are the same as the Koho 450 Senior The 3000 is also CSA and HECC approved. The Heaton 3000 junior is the same as the 3000 Senior but is 10% smaller and lighten It is available in black and white only. VAUGHN MAKES INNOVATIVE CHANGES FOR 1997/98: Vaughn will make innovative technical and graphic changes for next season. The Vision goal pads now have a double knee cradle for a more secure fit. and a new letter-fitting wraparound inside leg protector that closes off the 5 Hole more effectively. "All of our pads have the exclusive flex Pac design for light weight and a quick break-in period." Vaughn said. The junior and senior Vision catch gloves will sport a new T next season. "We have taken the double T one step further and have come up with a triple T on as we call it, the Tri-Web," Vaughn said. "The new Tri-Web allows a deeper and softer pocket as well as a larger sweet spot reducing the spin of the puck when it lands in the glove." The junior Vision catch glove has been sized differently and is a little larger than previously. It will also feature the new Tri-Web. The junior and senior Vision blockers have a new and improved cuff which provides more flexibility and easier puck control. The new molded form blocker board for the Vision is stiffer and has a larger lend and a noticeable weight reduction. There is a new design for the finger protectors and it is now tapered at the front. "We have added a preformed palm and padded fingers for increased comfort and stick control." Vaughn said. The Vision chest and arm protector has added rolls in the chest to fill out the chest area for better shelf appeal and customer confidence. And, there is a new Vision goal cup with a higher waist band for the goalie with a longer torso. The Legacy 2 senior pads also have the new calf protector and knee cradle. and will also have new knee bars in the knee rolls for a sharper look. The Legacy 2 catch glove will have improved graphics. The Legacy 2 blocker has the new cuff like the Vision. The Reflex blockers will have a new floating cuff for increased stick and puck control. Vaughn will introduce a women's pelvic protector and a women's shoulder pad for next season. That's all folks! Gregg gjohnson@mail.portup.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jlove042@aol.com Subject: Re: What was that? Date: 14 Jan 1997 22:51:22 -0500 (EST) so are we allowed to exchange suppliers numbers? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gemini10@ix.netcom.com Subject: RE-What was that? Date: 14 Jan 1997 23:43:27 -0800 I keep getting messages with the same content repeated 4 times (within the one message)saying something about "the server doesn't allow spamming!!" Seems to me if I get 3-4 messages with that message repeated 4 times THAT is spamming!! Marcee goalieMOM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jlove042@aol.com Subject: Re: RE-What was that? Date: 15 Jan 1997 00:14:50 -0500 (EST) Are there any company websites where u can get a catalog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jlove042@aol.com Subject: Re: What was that? Date: 15 Jan 1997 01:23:36 -0500 (EST) what are spamers? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Collins Subject: Re: Hockey Companies Date: 15 Jan 1997 01:15:05 PST (Wed) > Any one know of good companies that have catalogues > I have Ocean Hockey # is 1-800-631-2159 > Rupp's # 1-800-344-0263 > > please let me know An amusing approach is to dial: 1-800-HOCKEY-? where "?" is a digit between 0 and 9. I think you get mail-order hockey companies at all of them. North Tonowanda NY is HOCKEY-1, someone else I've used is HOCKEY-2. - Chuck Collins cpc@chkpt.COM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry Russell Subject: Unidentified subject! Date: 15 Jan 1997 04:32 EST Could someone please tell me how to get off this list. I am on it twice and only need one subscription. It's driving me nuts. Thank you very much. Regards, //BEGIN BINARY MAIL SEGMENT: begin 0644 ATTRIBS.BND M0F5Y;VYD(%!A8VME9"!!='1R:6)U=&5S +0514* M M M %)UI keep getting messages with the same content repeated 4 times (within >the one message)saying something about "the server doesn't allow >spamming!!" for me to fix this, i need to see this. could you forward this to me? since you're at one of the shunned sites, you need to put "not-spam" as the Subject header. >Seems to me if I get 3-4 messages with that message >repeated 4 times THAT is spamming!! hardly. it's called fixing bugs in the system. this should have been fixed yesterday. if you get more today, you should forward them to me so i can fix the problem. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ACOPIER@aol.com Subject: GOALIE CAMPS Date: 15 Jan 1997 17:10:57 -0500 (EST) my 15 year old wants to go to a high caliber camp for 2-4 weeks. any feed-back would be helpful ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: RE-What was that? Date: 15 Jan 1997 17:19:56 -0500 (EST) At 10:27 AM 1/15/97 -0800, you wrote: >Marcee writes: > >>I keep getting messages with the same content repeated 4 times (within >>the one message)saying something about "the server doesn't allow >>spamming!!" > >for me to fix this, i need to see >this. could you forward this to >me? since you're at one of the shunned >sites, you need to put "not-spam" >as the Subject header. > >>Seems to me if I get 3-4 messages with that message >>repeated 4 times THAT is spamming!! > >hardly. it's called fixing bugs >in the system. this should have >been fixed yesterday. if you get >more today, you should forward them >to me so i can fix the problem. > > stormwind > > hell's amazon > lord of the frozen realm > > > Why not make things simple, and get forget about the program, and just tell it not to send mail to the goalie list... I agree with Marcee... seeing 4 messages come back from one person is more annoying... Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HOCKEY6688@aol.com Subject: Re: Hockey Companies Date: 17 Jan 1997 16:41:24 -0500 (EST) In a message dated 97-01-14 22:10:29 EST, you write: > Any one know of good companies that have catalogues > I have Ocean Hockey # is 1-800-631-2159 > Rupp's # 1-800-344-0263 > > please let me know > > John > John - Kemp's hockey supply co. in New York is ok...their prices are just a little bit below retail. Also, if your order totals more than $200 (as most goalies' orders do) then shipping is free. Call KEMP'S at 1 (800) 223-8571 and ask them to send you a catalog. As a note, they carry mostly Vaughn and Heaton goal equipment...also, they have some low-end Cooper stuff. -- James McElfresh - Willowbrook Spiders #15 - Houston, TX -- GAA: 2.00 Email: HOCKEY6688@aol.com http://members.aol.com/hockey6688/temphome.htm "If I had to stop it with my mouth I would do it." - Martin Brodeur ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregg Johnson Subject: new Vic goalie sticks Date: 17 Jan 1997 18:08:43 -0500 The new 3050 is Vic's top value-priced, performance hockey stick. it features a 13-ply laminated birch shaft with a 3.5 flex factor combined with a fiberglass-wrapped blade and two curve options. Rounding out the adult stick line is the 2050 with the new Vic graphics, a 19-ply laminated birch shaft with a 3.5 flex factor and a fiberglass-reinforced blade with two curve options. The new 405 Jr. features a 19-ply laminated shaff with a graphite-reinforced blade. Hot junior stick'. The 305 Jr. mirrors the 405 in a 47-in. length. The 205 and 105 models are 19-ply sticks available in 48-in. and 42-in. lengths respectively. In goal sticks. the 9050 is used by top NHL goalies such as Mike Richter and John Vanbiesbrouck. It's constructed from lightweight ash, reinforced with fiberglass and now features the dynamic new Vic graphics. Available in several player-endorsed curves. The 7050 goal stick has been redesigned with the new graphics. The all-new 905 Jr. goal stick features a 13-ply laminated handle, fiberglass-reinforced ash paddle and is available in several curves. The new 705 Jr. combines the features of a 7050 in a junior stick. And, the 305 in comes with a 19-ply laminated handle ash paddle and reinforced straight blade. Vic will market a totally redesigned family of senior and junior replacement blades for the 1997/98 season. These are ash blades reinforced with fiberglass and graphite. Some more infor coming, Gregg gjohnson@portup.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregg Johnson Subject: Mitchell and Northern Amerex Goalie Gear Date: 17 Jan 1997 18:20:33 -0500 MITCHELL INTRODUCES ITS NEW PREDATOR SERIES: Mitchell, after two years of design and testing, is launching its new Predator series of goal equipment for 1997/98. The arm and chest protector has side extension wings that reach away beyond conventional arm pads. The large front shoulder blocks and floating shoulder caps maximize net coverage, while side extensions of the chest pad combined with the spine saver and kidney pads provide optimum hack coverage. Other features include a floating chest pad extension, fully adjustable arm and elbow pads, removable sweat pads and adjustable wrist straps. A new Predator catcher and blocker are also included. The new blocker features an angled top and bottom for more extensive coverage in vulnerable areas, elasticized floating cuff and adjustable wrist strap. Knuckle and index guards have a unique design - with large M graphics. The catcher features a cuff and heel that are channeled for better control when shooting or stick handling. Individual finger stalls, adjustable thumb loop and padded wrist strap offer greater control. This glove features a unique T pocket, a padded Suspension system and reinforced T trap is designed to "eat" pucks! NORTHERN AMEREX EXPANDS GOALTENDING LINE: Northern Amerex will introduce its expanded line of Resistor goaltending equipment. "Ian Young, mentor to many NHL goalies, participated as a consultant on the new lineup." Northern Arnerex said. "The complete line offers protection from head to toe." From all-nylon to all-leather pads, Northern Arnerex offers custom colors and designs for competitive play all house league prices. The program now includes four sizes of blockers and catchers, from tyke to adult. Well - I think is all I can find out! Gregg gjohnson@portup.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Robinson (BIO)" Subject: Battram equipment Date: 20 Jan 1997 11:14:38 -0500 (EST) Hi everyone, I just got Scott's new glove the other day, and it is a beauty. It looks like King Kong's fist, it's so big (of course it's legal, but you know what I mean.) It looks pretty, too. The pocket is really deep (looks like Jimmy Hoffa's body could be down there some place), and after playing with it the other night, not one puck came out of it. There are a number of ways to adjust the padding on the back so you can easily fit whatever upper body pad you have into it. I really don't know what else to say about this glove. It looks sturdy, and my entire team was commenting on how nice it is. This is a great piece of equipment. I just want to take this opportunity to say how great Scott's company is. Not only is his equipment top of the line, but he's a great guy, too. I recently got a bunch of cash and wanted to upgrade my upper body pads. I asked Scott about a few brands and asked him to compare his to them, as well. Well, I had decided on one set of pads (which I won't mention, but they were very high quality), until after I listened to what Scott had to say. Now don't get me wrong. He didn't really try to influence my decision--he gave me a completely honest evaluation of the different pads I was considering. He never tried to pressure me or anything. In the end, I decided to get his pads, even though they were a little more expensive than my original choice. I haven't received them yet, but I am sure they will live up to the quality of the rest of his gear. Unfortunately, most of you on the list are already familiar with the quality of Battram equipment, either through direct experience or just by hearing about it. Therefore, this message isn't doing as much good as I'd like. But I am telling my friends about Battram, and you should, too. That's not to say that Battram is necessarily for everyone, but before you purchase ANY new equipment, you should at least talk to Scott about his and ask his opinions of the other brands you are considering. Now, before you blow this letter off as some sycophantic rantings: 1. I am NOT related to Scott. 2. I don't own stock in Battram. 3. I am not sponsored by Battram (although that would be a good idea, eh, Scott?) I wrote this letter, because I believe that people should always support friendly, good service instead of large, faceless companies. I was going to go on, because there's a lot more I could say about how great a company it is, but I am sure that you are tired of reading. Thanks for reading this far! Good hockey! Mike ____________________________________________________________________________ Michael P. Robinson Department of Biology - LIF 136 University of South Florida 4202 E Fowler Ave Tampa, FL 33612 813-974-2878; fax 813-974-3263 mrobinso@chuma.cas.usf.edu Korn, Bier, Schnaps und Wein und wir hoeren unsere Leber schrein. ____________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: hasek Date: 20 Jan 1997 12:33:53 -0800 (PST) The man. Did he make a show, or what? Anyway, what's the deal with this? He was wearing a Bauer mask, but it had Cooper straps holding it. Yah, I know, kinda nitpicky, but I found it kinda weird. Personally, I'm just going to blame Nike for blatant attempt at marketing as many of their hockey products in one package. Then again, maybe his bauer ones broke and those other's were the only ones laying around. Tal ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David L. Fielding" Subject: Re: Battram equipment Date: 20 Jan 1997 17:58:38 -0500 Michael, I have Scott's upper body unit. I like it a lot. No more bruised arms. I recently ordered the blocker/catcher combo and am expecting it any day now. The stuffing is falling out of my current pair of leather pads (Cooper) so guess what's next - a little more duct tape please. I'm thinking about new pads this year. I'm not looking forward to spending $500-$1000 on new pads. Any comments from folks that have recently purchased goal pads? Has anyone compared the Battram 2000-3000-3500? Is there much of a used market for pads? Thanks, David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JMdog@aol.com Subject: Re: Battram equipment Date: 20 Jan 1997 19:39:25 -0500 (EST) oh yeah! you're not the only one who isn't looking forword to spending that kind of money. there are tons of people with small wallets that will love you. new pads are alot of money but once you get them you will know that it was money well spent. going with cheezy inexpensive pads ( boddam, louisville etc ) just doesn't compare to spending a few extra dollars. you should have to buy pads once in a great while-- do it once and do it right. after the first two seasons you will begin to see where the extra money went. zac ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ewoods1@minet.gov.mb.ca (Shawn Woods) Subject: The Mental Game Date: 20 Jan 1997 19:45:45 -0600 (CST) Recently I have been playing VERY bad hockey. And it is not because I don't have the so called skill, but it is because I can't play the mental part of the game anymore. I am not going to say how many goals I have let in the past few games, but I will say that my only problem is I can't focus on the game nowadays. What can I do to get back on track? I know you guys will help, so I thought I should ask other goaltenders what I can do. Shawn Woods #33 Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: The Mental Game Date: 20 Jan 1997 21:46:32 -0500 (EST) At 07:45 PM 1/20/97 -0600, you wrote: >Recently I have been playing VERY bad hockey. And it is not because I don't >have the so called skill, but it is because I can't play the mental part of >the game anymore. I am not going to say how many goals I have let in the >past few games, but I will say that my only problem is I can't focus on the >game nowadays. What can I do to get back on track? I know you guys will >help, so I thought I should ask other goaltenders what I can do. > > >Shawn Woods #33 >Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League > > > The best way to get out of this situation is to have one great game... It is surprising who much worse you get when you have a few bad games, the confidence just isnt there... if you have one good game usually this turns things around! Also, make sure you dont play with people who are below your level, as this will also bring your game down! You are better to play with people who are better than you... as you will only improve! Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Re: The Mental Game Date: 20 Jan 1997 18:01:15 -0800 (PST) Well hell, worrying about the last couple of games isn't going to help too much. I've had a few of those 13ish goal games myself. Hey, not even all in the early days. What worked for me, yes a cliche, but go back to the basics. I just thought of what I had to do and think to be a succesfull goalie. Watch the puck, center myself... blah blah. But it helped. I took each shot as a new opportunity to make a save, and each game as a new opportunity to win. Both totally detached from my previous (lack of) performace. It doesn't take much to get confidence back. Hell, one great save of a breakaway or a one timer can do it. Hope it helps a bit. Tal At 07:45 PM 1/20/97 -0600, Shawn Woods wrote: >Recently I have been playing VERY bad hockey. And it is not because I don't >have the so called skill, but it is because I can't play the mental part of >the game anymore. I am not going to say how many goals I have let in the >past few games, but I will say that my only problem is I can't focus on the >game nowadays. What can I do to get back on track? I know you guys will >help, so I thought I should ask other goaltenders what I can do. > > >Shawn Woods #33 >Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League > > > ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Vitrone Subject: New Equipment Date: 21 Jan 1997 00:49:34 -0500 (EST) I'm in the market for new chest and arm pads. I've been looking at Vaughns but have heard so many good thing's about Scott's equipment that I think I'll give him a call. Any input? Also, if the budget allows, I'd like to get a one piece helmet. There are so many out there on the market. I've heard Cubberly and Michaud make great masks, are there any others I should check out? Does anyone have any information on Michaud masks? Thanks, Chris V. Clarkson University ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David DeCoster Subject: Re: The Mental Game Date: 21 Jan 1997 06:26:31 -0500 (EST) > Excerpts from mail: 20-Jan-97 The Mental Game Shawn > Woods@minet.gov.mb (512*) > Recently I have been playing VERY bad hockey. And it is not > because I don't > have the so called skill, but it is because I can't play the > mental part of > the game anymore. I am not going to say how many goals I have let > in the > past few games, but I will say that my only problem is I can't > focus on the > game nowadays. What can I do to get back on track? I know you > guys will > help, so I thought I should ask other goaltenders what I can do. > Shawn Woods #33 > Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League Forget the past. If you don't you will start fighting yourself and then it is all down hill from there. Only play in the moment. Not 1 minute ago, not 1 sec ago, not 10 seconds from now. Play only in the moment. > Davey D David L DeCoster Dept. 40G, Lanserver Development and RF/Systems Support We've done so much for so long with so little. Now we can do anything with nothing. Internal: decoster@rchland, decoster@endvm5 Internet: ddecoster@vnet.ibm.com TL 855-6630 / (607) 755-6630 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smythel@operatns.mohawkc.on.ca Subject: Mask Date: 21 Jan 1997 08:14:45 -0500 (EST) During a game last Sunday I took a shot off of the forehead of my Cooper helmet/cage combo which cracked the helmet and popped the screws. Now I'm looking around for a new mask, although I'm not sure if I want to go back to a mask or stay with the helmet/cage combo. One of the stranger combos that I saw last night at the Sports Authority was made by Jofa. It consisted of a helmet with attached mask. Has anyone seen or used this type of arrangement? Any input would be appreciated. Larry Smythe smythel@operatns.mohawkc.on.ca System Analyst Mohawk College Phone: (905) 575-1212 ext. 3001 Hamilton, Ontario Fax : (905) 575-2302 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kelsey, Bill" Subject: Re: Battram equipment Date: 21 Jan 1997 09:22:02 -5 David - I ordered a set of Scott's '2000's a couple of weeks ago. I expect to have them in the next week to ten days - I'll let the list know how they are when the arrive and I get a chance to wring 'em out. I figure they will last the rest of my hockey career (I am 48!). I spent over 30 minutes on the phone with Scott talking about the different features of the pads and which one I really should get based on the level I am playing at - I felt it was worth the price - I'll let you know if I was right when they arrive.... You asked about the market for used pads.... I put a note out to the list about the new pads a week or so ago - I did not mention my old pads, but within 20 minutes I had a note back from a goalie I know 50 miles north of here offering to buy my old set. I met him last night so he could try them in a game, and while I was there had an offer on an even older set I have from another goalie that was at the rink. - Yes - there is a market.... I see you are at Cornell - I grew up in Dryden, went to Cornell ('70, '74) and spent many hours in Lynah Rink when Ken Dryden was there. I did not play hockey at that point in my life, but would love to play in Lynah sometime. Are there ever any recreational tournaments up there?? Good luck with the new pad decision! Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Correia Subject: Re: hasek Date: 21 Jan 1997 10:08:27 -0500 (EST) At 12:33 PM 1/20/97 -0800, you wrote: Actually, Bauer and Cooper are the same thing. Canstar which owned Bauer and Cooper sold to Nike. Nike is going to faze out Cooper but keep Bauer. Just my 2 cents! Rick >The man. > >Did he make a show, or what? > >Anyway, what's the deal with this? He was wearing a Bauer mask, but it had >Cooper straps holding it. >Yah, I know, kinda nitpicky, but I found it kinda weird. >Personally, I'm just going to blame Nike for blatant attempt at marketing as >many of their hockey products in one package. > >Then again, maybe his bauer ones broke and those other's were the only ones >laying around. > >Tal > > > > >___________________________________ >Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline >Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to >the "EvangeList" listserver! > Send email to: or go to: > > > > Correia's Cresting Company **Visit our WEB SITE at:** http://venus.execulink.com/~rcorreia/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Sanyal" Subject: Re: Mask Date: 21 Jan 1997 10:41:19 -0500 Dear Larry, I had the misfortune of using this Jofa helmet/cage combo. It seemed like a novel idea at first, and at the time it was a lot less expensive than a lot of the masks on the market. Although the unit provides ample protection for the most part, I found a few flaws. One of the big things was that the chin area does not extend low enough, leaving some of your collar area unprotected on high shots. I have found that with full fledged masks, the chin extends low enough that high shots will not hit you in the neck for the most part, even without a clear plastic throat protector, because of the stance a goalie adopts. This was not the case with the Jofa unit. The biggest problem with it though, is that the cage of the mask is too far away from your face, and your vision becomes obstructed, especially when the puck is low in your feet and you are trying to recover rebounds. I found that when I changed to my current mask (an Imask - good deal), I have had great protection and no vision problems. If you would like to take a look at my mask, then please take a look at my web page. Take care Steve ssanyal@netcom.ca http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1785 ---------- > From: smythel@Operatns.mohawkc.on.ca > To: hockey goalie > Subject: Mask > Date: Tuesday, January 21, 1997 8:14 AM > > During a game last Sunday I took a shot off of the forehead of my > Cooper helmet/cage combo which cracked the helmet and popped the > screws. Now I'm looking around for a new mask, although I'm not sure > if I want to go back to a mask or stay with the helmet/cage combo. > One of the stranger combos that I saw last night at the Sports Authority > was made by Jofa. It consisted of a helmet with attached mask. Has anyone > seen or used this type of arrangement? Any input would be appreciated. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Larry Smythe smythel@operatns.mohawkc.on.ca > System Analyst > Mohawk College Phone: (905) 575-1212 ext. 3001 > Hamilton, Ontario Fax : (905) 575-2302 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David L. Fielding" Subject: Re: Battram equipment Date: 21 Jan 1997 11:15:49 -0500 Bill, Wow! Your 48 years old. I thought I was the oldest goalie playing the game at 33 (started playing hockey at 32). :^) Patrick Roy is 30, if I had only started a few years earlier. I've been tempted a few times to ask that folks include their age when posting. I get the sense that most goalies on this list are between 15-22 years old, in great physical shape and possessing great reaction speed. I'd be real interested to hear from older goalies. I think there are a different set of issues with older goalies. I find that I am unable to play 4-8 times a week like some of the younger goalies in the area. Job, family, studies tend to get in the way. Right now I am playing once or twice a week. The adult league is late at night and the open scrimmages are too early. The last two times I've played I've gone in tired and it seemed like I'd have trouble stopping a beach ball. So I tend to be inconsistent. When I'm feeling great, with a bounce in my legs, I seem to make great saves. When I'm not its more like "there goes the puck...". So how do you prepare for games having not played in a few days? Do most folks on the list play several times a week? One thing I have noticed is that when I play multiple sessions I tend to improve tremedously in the second session, as if the first was like a warmup. Lynah Rink (here on campus) is great because there are so many scrimmages that I often get asked to play for the next session. What does this tell me? I guess the proper warm-up would help a lot? Caffeine? Any advise from older goalies? What's your training routine like? Can you still do splits at 48? David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Vitrone Subject: Re: Battram and New equipment Date: 21 Jan 1997 11:58:09 -0500 (EST) Thanks for the input on Battram's upper body pads. I'm a grad student at Clarkson University and I know how you feel about finding time for hockey. I'm 22 years old and play about 2-4 times a week. The only way I was able to play was start my own pickup group here on campus. I have to skip a class if I want to play pickup downtown during the day. When I do get to play hockey I try to give myself time to cool down and relax. Whether its a nap or relaxing while stretching or visualizing myself making and practicing saves, I found it important for my mental game. It also seems to help my consistency but you have to make time for it. Hope this helps, thanks. Chris V. \_0_ <> |P H\H_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Re: Mask Date: 21 Jan 1997 09:24:05 -0800 (PST) >During a game last Sunday I took a shot off of the forehead of my >Cooper helmet/cage combo which cracked the helmet and popped the >screws. Now I'm looking around for a new mask, although I'm not sure >if I want to go back to a mask or stay with the helmet/cage combo. >One of the stranger combos that I saw last night at the Sports Authority >was made by Jofa. It consisted of a helmet with attached mask. Has anyone >seen or used this type of arrangement? Any input would be appreciated. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Larry Smythe smythel@operatns.mohawkc.on.ca > System Analyst > Mohawk College Phone: (905) 575-1212 ext. 3001 > Hamilton, Ontario Fax : (905) 575-2302 >----------------------------------------------------------------------- Larry Good name, think you mispelled the last name though. I recommend that you go for the mask. Look for one made of fiberglass/kevlar throughout. Avoid fiberglass masks with kevlar reinforcing the chin and forehead, get kevlar throughout. Avoid the "composite" masks, these are plastic. I got a VanVelden mask a few years ago and would never go back to a helmet-cage combination. The mask provides a lot more protection. Prices are coming down so that masks can now be bought without mortgaging the house. The VanVelden was $160(US). I've seen the Jofa combination. It looks very awkward. Although, my last helmet was a Jofa and it was very comfortable to wear. It was not so good when hit though. It transmitted a lot of the impact force to my head; something the VanVelden handles much better, absorbing the impact not transmitting it. Good luck. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Branchaud Subject: Re: Battram equipment Date: 21 Jan 1997 13:25:42 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Dave Steinhart wrote: > Surely you don't mean oldest overall? > > Kelly Hrudey was 36 on the 13th. > Grant Fuhr is 34. > Mike Vernon will be 34 on Valentine's Day. > The Beezer is 33. Andy Moog will be 37 on February 18, making him the oldest goalie in the NHL. > > I'd be real interested to hear from older goalies. I think > > there are a different set of issues with older goalies. I find that > > I am unable to play 4-8 times a week like some of the younger > > goalies in the area. Job, family, studies tend to get in the way. Well, I'm 29 with the big three-uh-oh coming at the end of April. I play a minimum of twice a week and usually at least 3 games per week. In October, I played 6 games in an 8 day span and I was completely wiped out after that stretch. I'm lucky, all I have to worry about is work and walking my dog. After that, hockey is my life (even though recovery takes a little longer than it used to). :) > Avoid caffeine at all costs. The younger goalies might argue with me, but > that stuff will kill you. And it's a diuretic, among other harmful effects > it has on your body. Caffeine, like alcohol, will dehydrate you during a game. If you insist on having coffee before a game, make sure you drink LOTS of water before, during, and after the game. You might also want to empty the old bladder before getting dressed. ;) The idea of coffee is that the caffeine will give you a physical boost. Personally, I don't think it helps but maybe that's due to the excessive amount of coffee I drink every day. If you can't get up for a game on adrenaline alone, I don't think an espresso will really help. > There's no substitute for eating right to restore your energy. I'd This is so true. My schedule doesn't always allow me to eat the way I'd like to before a game, but I make sure that I load up on carbohydrates at least 4 hours before a game (pasta or rice with some chicken for protein) and I try to drink a lot of water also. Good nutrition will give you more stamina and will help your body heal faster from those niggling minor injuries. BTW, during one of my recent games, someone suggested a good idea to keep the stench of a hockey bag in check: fabric softener sheets. Stuff like Bounce is usually scented and can help to fend off some of the odor in your bag (if you have that problem). The advantage is that it takes up no extra space and usually doesn't leave things all sticky (like a spray). HotBranch! ************** Paul Branchaud (paul@vedge.com) "What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit Technical Writer names their team `The Ducks'?" Visual Edge Software, Ltd. Bugs Bunny to Daffy Duck in Space Jam **The Surgeon General has determined that the above-stated opinions are loopy and should not be inhaled or otherwise taken to be fact** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Mask Date: 21 Jan 1997 10:31:20 -0800 i'm with larry. i used a jofa with a cooper cage assembly for the first year or two i was playing. when i found one on sale, i immediately snagged a jofa goalie mask combo. better than the cage, but my sideways visibility dropped some, and i never did adjust to the 'visor'. then i got a vanvelden iv. the jofa has hung forlornly in my garage since; it gets carried along as a backup helmet, and is most frequently used with the cooper cage for playing D! i'd HIGHLY recommend the vanveldon. or, if you've got around $1K to burn, i would ABSOLUTELY buy a helmet from don strauss, the guy behind the dilla helmets. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: goalieootttaA Subject: mask Date: 21 Jan 1997 10:43:51 -0800 (PST) Hi Larry, Part of the problem with the helmet/cage combo is that the screws tend to work themselves out and if you get hit on the screw part of the mask it can crack. I had this happen once and didn't even know the mask was broken until after the game. I was just lucky not to get hit there again as the puck would have gone right through. I also got hurt in a warm-up in a helmet/cage when somebody took a hard shot from the side (two guys shooting at the same time..oops) and got hit on the temple. I've seen the Jofa product, it doesn't look much stronger than the regular combo. I've had better luck with the regular goalie mask. Hope you find a good one, Lisa ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kelsey, Bill" Subject: Old goalies.... Date: 21 Jan 1997 15:14:36 -5 David - It looks like my age has started another thread on the list.... I think there may be a couple of other "mature" goalies on the list - I had hoped to go to the school the list had in Detroit last summer and had inquired about the age of the attendees - I did not want to be 30 years older than the next oldest one there. I understand there was at least one who was from my era. I started playing when I was 35 - we formed an adult league at the local rink the next year, and I started getting a real education in the net. One of the teams was made up mostly of kids who had been on the local high school team that was the state championship team a few years prior - they used to fight each other to see who would get the puck to be able to take a shot at me. If I kept them under 15 I had had a great game. My advice to the new goalie is to get on the worst team you can find - you will learn a lot more that way! Anyway - back to the age thing - my mother just sent me an article about a hockey team in RI where the youngest player is 65. So - I figure I have at least 20 more years left! There is an oldtimers tournament in San Jose each year at the rink that Charlie Schultz owns that has a section for 70 years and up. I have seen the program with the pictures - they come from all over the world to play in that one. Maybe someday I'll get a chance to try that one. You asked about splits.... To me that is some sort of self destructive manuever that I don't even think about. I tend to try to follow the shooter to one side or the other and either use a skate save or get one pad on the ice for the save. I just have never been that flexible. I used to high jump on the track team at Cornell, and even then would not have been able to do a split. Right now I am playing about 2 - 4 times a week. We have three leagues, and I am playing in the middle and upper level leagues in addition to some pick up hockey every other week or so. I find if I do two games back to back the second one gets a bit sloppier - esp. in the third period. I do think I am playing the best this year that I have played in a long time - for two reasons - one - I dropped about 15 pounds before the season started. My weight is about what it was when I got out of grad school for the first time since grad school, and two - mental - I had a couple of really good games few weeks into the season, and have been riding that wave ever since. You know you are doing well when the other team starts cussing you out - that has happened several times this year and it is great! The biggest thing is those 15 pounds though - it has helped me to be just that little bit quicker and I have been able to follow the player/puck in close much more effectively. I do find a good warm up is essential. I like to stretch before I hit the ice, take a lot of shots from the blue line or at least the top of the circles, a couple in close, work up a good sweat and get breathing hard, and then get going. We normally only have a 5 minute warmup on the ice before they drop the puck.Then the trick is to get past that first shot. I hate to think how many goals I have given up on the first shot.... A good night's sleep the prior night always helps. I am not a coffee drinker, so I can't comment on the caffine. My training routine consists of the games I play in, the 9 flights of stairs I walk every morning to get up to my office ( and whatever stairs I can do during the day) and touching my toes 60 times in the morning in the shower to keep my back and hamstrings stretched out. You also mentioned the problem of consistancy - I have the same trouble. I find that when a few stupid ones get by the best thing for me is to get back to basics and work on position - make them hit me, and forget about the boners that just got by. Even then it seems like there are always a few games every year where it doesn't matter what I do - they are going to score. Fortunately there are also games where it doesn't matter what I do - they hit me! So there you have it - all my "older goalie" secrets. And for all you kids out there who are under 40 - you still have a lot of years left. Is there anyone on the list over 48?? Or am I the oldest..... Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Steinhart Subject: Re: Battram equipment Date: 21 Jan 1997 09:46:51 -0700 (MST) Reply to David L. Fielding: > > Wow! Your 48 years old. I thought I was the oldest goalie > playing the game at 33 (started playing hockey at 32). :^) Patrick > Roy is 30, if I had only started a few years earlier. Correction. Patrick was born in October, 1965, making him 31. Surely you don't mean oldest overall? Kelly Hrudey was 36 on the 13th. Grant Fuhr is 34. Mike Vernon will be 34 on Valentine's Day. The Beezer is 33. > I'd be real interested to hear from older goalies. I think > there are a different set of issues with older goalies. I find that > I am unable to play 4-8 times a week like some of the younger > goalies in the area. Job, family, studies tend to get in the way. Right here. I'm 32, run 2 businesses (soon to be 3), am working on a Ph.D., teach here and there, and so on. > guess the proper warm-up would help a lot? Caffeine? Any advise Avoid caffeine at all costs. The younger goalies might argue with me, but that stuff will kill you. And it's a diuretic, among other harmful effects it has on your body. There's no substitute for eating right to restore your energy. I'd recommend the book Enter the Zone, by Barry Sears. I believe he has a sequel out, but I haven't read it yet. All about eating in order to get into the "zone", that magical place where pucks look like beach balls, your stamina is neverending, etc. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Re: The Mental Game Date: 21 Jan 1997 08:55:47 -0800 (PST) >Recently I have been playing VERY bad hockey. And it is not because I don't >have the so called skill, but it is because I can't play the mental part of >the game anymore. I am not going to say how many goals I have let in the >past few games, but I will say that my only problem is I can't focus on the >game nowadays. What can I do to get back on track? I know you guys will >help, so I thought I should ask other goaltenders what I can do. > > >Shawn Woods #33 >Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League Shawn I recently went through a slump of my own. During which I gave up a lot of what I consider to be easy goals. Sitting down thinking about it led me to two conclusions. First, I had been overrating my abilities. I was expecting to make the spectacular saves. I knew I could make those saves. And knowing this I stopped trying and tried to nonchalant everything. I had to realize it takes effort to make those saves and I had to work to be a good goalie. My second conclusion was literally with my focus. I was no longer physically focused on the puck. I was watching the shooter, the other skaters, or the shooter's stick. This was very hard for me to realize. Once I did and started keeping my eyes focused on the puck-using peripheral vision to pick up any other skaters- I started doing much better. Focusing on the puck allowed me to follow it in on a shot instead of trying to pick up the puck on its way in. This allows me to more accurately follow the puck and adjust for any movement of the puck-due either to a shot from a rolling puck or a deflection. Anyway, relax, focus on the puck, and I think your game will come back. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Malcolm Preen Subject: Older goalies (was Re: Battram equipment) Date: 21 Jan 1997 17:12:50 +0000 David L. Fielding wrote: > I've been tempted a few times to ask that folks include > their age when posting. I get the sense that most goalies on this > list are between 15-22 years old, in great physical shape and > possessing great reaction speed. Well I'm 32 going on 33 - starting playing as a forward at 27, and switched to goal just before I was 30. > I'd be real interested to hear from older goalies. I think > there are a different set of issues with older goalies. I find that You should try being an older goalie in a country that doesn't appreciate hockey... we train once a week, and occasionally have a game at weekends.. > The last two times I've played I've gone in tired and it seemed > like I'd have trouble stopping a beach ball. Hmm, when I'm dead from work I know I just have to get to the rink, and start kitting up to wake up - and the adrenalin rush will keep me going well into the next day.... I've had my best session when I've been tired - perhaps 'cos I keep things simple ?? > asked to play for the next session. What does this tell me? I > guess the proper warm-up would help a lot? Caffeine? Any advise > from older goalies? What's your training routine like? Can you > still do splits at 48? Caffeine certainly helps :-), I always need to get ready in a non-rushed time frame.. make sure I have time to stretch etc. I've never been able to do the splits... got close once or twice by accident and regretted it... Malcolm -- Malcolm (recent 1-0-0 sav%94.00 GAA 2.25 - career 22-19-1 85.89% 5.76) Goaltending is 90% mental and the other 10% is in your head British Hockey Results/Tables: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~sonic/hockey.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Re: Battram equipment Date: 21 Jan 1997 08:56:02 -0800 (PST) >Michael, > > I have Scott's upper body unit. I like it a lot. No more >bruised arms. I recently ordered the blocker/catcher combo and >am expecting it any day now. > > The stuffing is falling out of my current pair of leather >pads (Cooper) so guess what's next - a little more duct tape please. >I'm thinking about new pads this year. I'm not looking forward to >spending $500-$1000 on new pads. > > Any comments from folks that have recently purchased goal >pads? Has anyone compared the Battram 2000-3000-3500? Is there >much of a used market for pads? > >Thanks, >David David There is very little market in used pads. Most pads on the market are either very well used, such as yours, or are low level pads bought by people who decided being a goalie isn't for them. Very few people spring for top line pads then quit. Glad to hear about the upper body unit. That is probably the next piece of equipment I'll buy and Scott is someone I'll be talking to about that. I got a pair of Battram 2000 goal pads in December. They are a beautiful set of pads. I play pickup 2-3 times per week. I got the 2000 pads because I wanted the two skate straps which is offered on this line. The thing I like best is that these are custom made pads. I looked around and talked to Scott and put together a pattern and color combination I liked and Scott made it. I even got my name embroidered on each pad to further personify the pads. The fit and feel are wonderful. I've had two problems with the pads. First, breaking them in. The pads are still not broken in to the point I would like yet. They were stiff when they arrived and are still somewhat stiff (although much better), particularly in the knee rolls. Second, the pads give up long rebounds which Scott assures me will diminish as the pads soften with use. If you order from Scott, I recommend you get full wrap around calf protection, strap holders to keep the skate straps off the ice, and thigh guards all of which are no charge. Thigh guards provide protection until the knee rolls loosen up. I'd also like to point out that, other than my first set of pads (which were real leather) my goal pads were Coopers with a nylon face. Break-in and play would obviously be much different for those pads. I can't say how the difficulties I have encountered with pad break-in and long rebounds compare to the "brand names", I have no experience with their synthetic leather models. Good luck and let me know how things turn out with the new pads. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rsandler@detroit.freenet.org Subject: "older" goalers Date: 21 Jan 1997 20:37:00 -0500 David L. Fielding wrote: > > Bill, > > Wow! Your 48 years old. I thought I was the oldest goalie > playing the game at 33 (started playing hockey at 32). :^) Patrick > Roy is 30, if I had only started a few years earlier. 48 WOW I wonder how the guy still walks! Anyway, I guess I beter figger it out since I'll be there in 2 years! > I'd be real interested to hear from older goalies. I think > there are a different set of issues with older goalies. I find that > I am unable to play 4-8 times a week like some of the younger > goalies in the area. Job, family, studies tend to get in the way. > > Right now I am playing once or twice a week. The adult > league is late at night and the open scrimmages are too early. Welcome to adult hockey. Imagine a full work day and a game that starts at 10.30 at an arena 40 minutes away from the house! My "other" weekly skate is a 7.00 am in the morning on Wednesday. I can sympathize with the occaisonal tired game. Ron Sandler ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Old goalies.... Date: 21 Jan 1997 16:22:33 -0800 Bill writes: There is an oldtimers tournament in San Jose each year at the rink that Charlie Schultz owns that has a section for 70 years and up. that would be Santa Rosa, California, actually, and the rink is the Redwood Empire Skating Rink. schultz skates in that tournament every year. now me, i'm 31, have played for four years, and am taking some time off to recondition and drop some weight i put on so i can determine injury status. i figure on only having one to two more seasons left playing goal before both knees are going to have to have surgery done on them...my good knee is now making very nasty velcro noises when sitting in chairs. to keep up with the youngsters, i found a videotape that talks about "horseshoe" style goaltending...this is the kind of goaltending that cuts down angles and offers the shooter very little net to shoot at. when play starts, i'm generally found parked between the hash marks (drove my team coach nuts until she finally decided i was onto something...it freaked her out having her goalie play so far out). the older players generally try to get me to back up; the youngsters get impatient and shoot anyways and generally blow it. this makes life a lot easier on me, since i can play more standup and less flop, don't need to do splits, and don't have to rely on reflexes. that having been said, the injury issue is very real... i'm beginning to get the distinct impression that last spring i tore or did some other muscle damage that isn't healing, and that's one of the things i'm reevaluating this year before playing again. i generally show up an hour before the game, stretch out, and run through a complete set of tai chi before dressing...it helps warm me up and locks my focus on the game. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Wet Gear Date: 22 Jan 1997 09:00:31 -0800 (PST) Yesterday, I put my hockey equipment out to dry after a game and went ouff to work. Well, it rained while I was at work and my stuff got soaked. I'm not worried about the pants, body protection, skates, or cup. What I am worried about are my gloves. They were on the ground and got soaked. I have a Forester blocker and a PCM catcher. The face material of the blocker is loose, not stretched tight over the blocker. It's rippling between sewn down areas. The catcher appears to be all right. My goal pads and helmet were left inside and so escaped the soaking. Does anyone know a good way to get this gear dryed out safely without ruining any of it? I would appreciate some help on this. Right now it's all inside, gloves spread out on the floor; pants, body protection, and skates hanging from a stand I made. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: YEDL33D@prodigy.com (BOBBIE STANFILL) Subject: Re: Old goalies.... Date: 22 Jan 1997 11:50:29, -0500 You can't talk about a tape without telling us the name! My own goalie is only 14 but every bit if info helps as he makes the transition from roller to ice. Bobbie goaliemom in FtWorth --[ ORIGINAL MESSAGE ]----------------- to keep up with the youngsters, i found a videotape that talks about "horseshoe" style goaltending...this is the kind of ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David L. Fielding" Subject: Now: Butterfly Re: Old goalies.... Date: 22 Jan 1997 14:33:45 -0500 When I first started playing I attempted to do my immitation of the butterfly, and I stopped quite a few shots this way. Then I noticed that my knees started to hurt while walking. I've since talked to several goalies that have stopped playing due to knee problems. I've talked to one that has had a knee operation and continues to play, and to one that has had a knee operation and quit playing. Is it the technique or the implementation that's the problem? Is it a case of performing the butterfly incorrectly? When you think about the perfect butterfly it does not seem like our knees were intended to handle the stresses being placed on them. Its even more stressful when a player falls on you while sprawled out. Yet the butterfly seems to be the prefered technique taught to younger goalies. Patrick Roy does it an he's awesome! I guess I'm wondering if its a case of doing them improperly or a case of coaches knowing the technique is dangerous and that the goalies will not notice permanent knee damage until after many years of playing. Do butterfly goalies tend to stop playing when their knees give out more so than standup goalies? How many of the older goalies on the list are butterfly goalies? David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ewoods1@minet.gov.mb.ca (Shawn Woods) Subject: Re: hasek Date: 22 Jan 1997 13:44:59 -0600 (CST) So, is Nike going to make a line of goal equipment too? That would be really wierd. I always thought the only Nike I would see would be shoes and clothing. Boy, things sure have changed in a few years. Shawn Woods #33 Stonewall Rams, Winnipeg High School Hockey League >At 12:33 PM 1/20/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Actually, > >Bauer and Cooper are the same thing. Canstar which owned Bauer and Cooper >sold to Nike. Nike is going to faze out Cooper but keep Bauer. > >Just my 2 cents! > >Rick >>The man. >> >>Did he make a show, or what? >> >>Anyway, what's the deal with this? He was wearing a Bauer mask, but it had >>Cooper straps holding it. >>Yah, I know, kinda nitpicky, but I found it kinda weird. >>Personally, I'm just going to blame Nike for blatant attempt at marketing as >>many of their hockey products in one package. >> >>Then again, maybe his bauer ones broke and those other's were the only ones >>laying around. >> >>Tal >> >> >> >> >>___________________________________ >>Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline >>Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to >>the "EvangeList" listserver! >> Send email to: or go to: >> >> >> >> > >Correia's Cresting Company > >**Visit our WEB SITE at:** >http://venus.execulink.com/~rcorreia/index.htm > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Oulton (Unemployed Student) :-)" Subject: Re: "older" goalers Date: 22 Jan 1997 15:04:16 -0800 Hey, I'm only 24, with a body of a72 year old, yet I was still able to pt skates on and stand up! Whats all this abot being to old to do something? Tired,...Yes,...Sore,...Okay,...OLD?... NEVER!!!! Roger O. (ptbo-kid)rsandler@detroit.freenet.org wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don Otvos NamS-SJ" Subject: Re: hasek Date: 22 Jan 1997 12:30:49 -0800 >So, is Nike going to make a line of goal equipment too? That would be >really wierd. I always thought the only Nike I would see would be shoes and >clothing. Boy, things sure have changed in a few years. I dunno, but seeing how they've really been slamming goalies in their latest TV ads, I wouldn't think they would move to making goalie stuff with the Nike logo. -Don **************************************************************************** Don Otvos | Madge Networks Inc Inside Sales - Southwest Region | 2310 N First St 408-952-9354 | San Jose, CA 95131 408-955-0966 (FAX) | Shift happens. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Now: Butterfly Re: Old goalies.... Date: 22 Jan 1997 13:00:12 -0800 David writes: When I first started playing I attempted to do my immitation of the butterfly, and I stopped quite a few shots this way. Then I noticed that my knees started to hurt while walking. I've since talked to several goalies that have stopped playing due to knee problems. I've talked to one that has had a knee operation and continues to play, and to one that has had a knee operation and quit playing. Is it the technique or the implementation that's the problem? Is it a case of performing the butterfly incorrectly? When you think about the perfect butterfly it does not seem like our knees were intended to handle the stresses being placed on them. Its even more stressful when a player falls on you while sprawled out. Yet the butterfly seems to be the prefered technique taught to younger goalies. Patrick Roy does it an he's awesome! butterfly is very dramatic. ever watch the way hrudey and fuhr POP right back up off the ice after a butterfly save? it's breathtaking. it's also VERY easy for a beginning goaltender to "butterfly" (read: flop) regardless of level of training. it's generally not until the first class or first injury that the beginner goalie realizes that he's tearing up his knees rather rapidly. six months into playing hockey, one of my knees got ripped up when i dropped to one knee, the other leg stretched to the side, to stop a wraparound attempt. two players fell across the extended leg. it was eight months before i could play again. it was another four months before i discovered a standup style of goaltending that worked for me. meanwhile, although i do most of my goaltending standup, i do "flop" when neccessary. and although the right knee has only suffered a sprain, in the last year it has begun making scary "ripping velcro" noises in normal day-to-day use. to this day the munged knee still pops...sometimes repeatedly...when i step on the clutch in my car. i've been playing now for about four years grand total. unless you started out with the legs of a speedskater, or unless you're a pro skier, the very nature of the crouching goalie position with sudden lunges and weird torque angles on the ice is going to wear out your knees. how many old skiers are still around who haven't had knee surgery? i know i'll have to have my knees worked on...and i'm not happy about it...and since i don't want to have the surgery done again due to injuries, at that point i'll have to give up goaltending and seriously consider either playing D or reffing. it's one of the hazards of the position. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SMILE2368@aol.com Subject: COOPER GOALIE PADS!!!! Date: 22 Jan 1997 16:40:23 -0500 (EST) ATTENTION ALL GOALTENDERS IN THE ILLINOIS AREA FOR SALE!!! COOPER GP3000 GOALIE PADS 28"--$280 ALL BLACK W/WHITE COOPER LOGO BOUGHT AT $432 (MY CHILD IS STILL LOOKING FOR NEW GOALIE PADS SO IF YOU WANT TO BUY THESE GIVE ME A "E-MAIL" AND YOU CAN TRY THEM WHEN MY CHILD DOESN'T HAVE A GAME OR A PRACTICE) THANX-------MIKE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David L. Fielding" Subject: Re: hasek Date: 22 Jan 1997 15:16:56 -0500 Actually, I like the sneakers that light up when you walk. I can't wait for a set of goalie pads that "flash" when the puck hits them. Maybe Scott can design a set with light weight batteries. Please avoid using a red colored light. How about a set of pads made of sticky/jelly substance that the puck just happens to stick to! Rebounds are no longer a problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SMILE2368@aol.com Subject: Nike and Bauer and everything else Date: 22 Jan 1997 16:49:10 -0500 (EST) I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE WHOLE NHL, NBA AND NFL AND ALL OTHER PRO SPORTS HAVE TURNED INTO AN ADVERTISING AGENCY. HAVE YOU SEEN FEDEROV'S SKATES??? JUST THOUGHT YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT I THOUGHT. ----#33 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SMILE2368@aol.com Subject: Re: Now: Butterfly Re: Old goalies.... Date: 22 Jan 1997 17:01:01 -0500 (EST) i don't know about butterfly causing knee problems in "maturer" people, but i do know that i am 14 (15 in may) and have been playing goalie since i was 4. I am a butterfly goalie and i do have knee problems at the end of some games but i have found that if you warm-up correctly before each game and practice than the problems go away. Warming-up isn't just stretching. Before you have your equipment on do some jumping jacks. run in place for a few minutes and do some short wind sprints from blue line to blue line with your equipment on. this should losen up your joints and get you ready for the game or practice. hope this helps -----#33 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Question Date: 22 Jan 1997 13:02:50 -0800 Bill asks: What are your favorite (legal) methods of getting those types of players out of the way, or at least dicourage them from spending a lot of time there?? Last night I tried going at the back of his skate blades with my stick, but found that only put notches in the bottom of my $40 stick.... place the leading edge of your blocker (or glove) right behind his knees. push. it doesn't take much. i tried this out at public skate on my unsuspecting coach and LEVELLED him with surprisingly little effort. it basically causes the knees to fold and your human screen to sit rather suddenly on the ice. and if you're good at it, the ref'll never catch you. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: hasek Date: 22 Jan 1997 17:34:55 -0500 (EST) At 12:30 PM 1/22/97 -0800, you wrote: > >>So, is Nike going to make a line of goal equipment too? That would be >>really wierd. I always thought the only Nike I would see would be shoes and >>clothing. Boy, things sure have changed in a few years. > >I dunno, but seeing how they've really been slamming goalies in their latest >TV ads, I wouldn't think they would move to making goalie stuff with the Nike >logo. > >-Don > >**************************************************************************** >Don Otvos | Madge Networks Inc >Inside Sales - Southwest Region | 2310 N First St >408-952-9354 | San Jose, CA 95131 >408-955-0966 (FAX) | Shift happens. > > > I am sure that next years line of goal equipment will have the BAUER logo on it... Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PAULSTERN@aol.com Subject: Re: Now: Butterfly Re: Old goalies.... Date: 22 Jan 1997 17:56:31 -0500 (EST) This is a very timely subject, as I am currently nursing a tweeked knee from butterflying. I'm 33 and have been playing for 23 years. I've been actually butterflying more in my later years as I find it to be very effective given my size (6'4"). I've had the occasional knee sprains that usually occur when I do something strange. The standard butterfly drop under normal conditions does not seem to put any strain on my knees. Problems occur when I drop into the butterfly too early and then instinctively try to bend to the side, or back as the player tries to go around me. This is what caused my most recent problem on the inside of my knee. The main area I find that takes chronic abuse from the butterfly position is my hip flexors. As one tries to rotate ones feet out in the butterfly position (trying to get closer to parallel with the goal line and block more area) it puts a lot of stress on the hip/hip flexor area. To make matters worse, this is a very difficult area to stretch. Has anyone else had problems in the hip area? I'd love to hear of any stretches/solutions to this chronic problem. One last thing. I noticed when I met Patrick Roy in person, that he seems to have very flexible hips. If you watch him when he walks, he is almost pidgeon toed and his upper body seems to move disconnected with his lower body. It is quite noticeable. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Foundation Comics Subject: Stretching/Warmups... Date: 22 Jan 1997 17:36:30 -0600 Not sure how many of you do have this page bookmarked.. but on the Goaltender Homepage http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~norrisdt/goalie.html there's a section for a stretching FAQ http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/papers/rma/stretching_1.html Under how to stretch(I believe) is a section entitled warmups.. joint rotation.. you wouldn't believe how much this has helped me even when I'm not playing and I'm just not feeling good.. have stiff joints.. or even if I don't think my joints are hurting(sometimes just those stiff muscles).. just feeling achey.. this whole FAQ if you look thru it and figure out what will work best for you, can help with flexibility, warmups, or just getting yourself stretched out. I haven't personally done the harsher stretches.. I usually do the first stretch listed.. and my flexibility improves. Just my thoughts on this.. amazing how much more of a warmup your body could actually use, and what you'd be surprised it could even consist of... Apologies to anyone that already uses that FAQ or the page.. it's great tho'! :) Cynthia Visit the Foundation Comics Webpage, home of SECOND RATE HEROES, picked by the COMIC SHOP NEWS as an Overlooked Sizzler of the Month, http://www.metronet.com/~gronlund/foundation.html or write to us at: * Issue #2: Solicits in the Foundation Comics * February PREVIEWS catalogue, P.O. Box 1143 * for an April, 97 release. Grapevine, Tx 76099 * Back issues still available. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wolf Subject: Experienced goalies! Date: 22 Jan 1997 18:15:52 PST --- On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:15:49 -0500 "David L. Fielding" wrote: > I've been tempted a few times to ask that folks include >their age when posting. I get the sense that most goalies on this >list are between 15-22 years old, in great physical shape and >possessing great reaction speed. I will be 37 in April, am in near great physical shape, and possess GREAT reaction speed! I play 4-8 times a week now. I played 8-10 times a week last winter, 3 league teams and pick up. The games were late at night and the pickup was very early in the morning. Over the summer they stopped pickup for about 2 months and I never got back into the habit (5 am wakeup). I would agree with some of the comments and disagree with others. I have had only minor problems with my knees, from trak and football not hockey! The keys are really very simple. First and foremost you need to be in good shape. Nothing will get damaged quicker than out of shape unused muscles! Next and equally important is stretching. I have always been a standup goalie but have learned how to butterfly and use it in certain situations. I am a little affended by the comments of how we must be slower because we are over 30. I would put my skills against ANY goalie of any calibre at any age with the same team in front of both of us. Now let me step down off this soap box... There. That said I will admit that I have felt pain in my hips after a really tough game. I always figgured it was because I didn't stretch out the correct muscles sufficiently before the game. Wolf #30 Wolves 13-1 Sv % .895 GAA 3.17 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Re: Now: Butterfly Re: Old goalies.... Date: 22 Jan 1997 15:51:11 -0800 (PST) >When I first started playing I attempted to do my immitation >of the butterfly, and I stopped quite a few shots this way. >Then I noticed that my knees started to hurt while walking. >I've since talked to several goalies that have stopped playing >due to knee problems. I've talked to one that has had a knee >operation and continues to play, and to one that has had a >knee operation and quit playing. > >Is it the technique or the implementation that's the problem? >Is it a case of performing the butterfly incorrectly? When you think >about the perfect butterfly it does not seem like our knees were >intended to handle the stresses being placed on them. Its even more >stressful when a player falls on you while sprawled out. Yet the >butterfly seems to be the prefered technique taught to younger >goalies. Patrick Roy does it an he's awesome! > >I guess I'm wondering if its a case of doing them improperly or >a case of coaches knowing the technique is dangerous and that >the goalies will not notice permanent knee damage until after >many years of playing. > >Do butterfly goalies tend to stop playing when their knees >give out more so than standup goalies? > >How many of the older goalies on the list are butterfly goalies? > >David David: One way that I've found to reduce the strain on my knees when I do the butterfly is to wear hinged knee braces. The original reason I started to wear the braces was to prevent injury when doing the butterfly and someone falls on you. I've been in that position a couple of times and am convinced the braces saved me from ligament damage. The hinges prevent you from bending the knee sideways and forces the move into one that reduces strain on the knee. You should look for braces with metal hinges built in. They cost about $40-$50 each and you'll need two. But, they tend to last a long time and are a good investment. Good luck. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JMdog@aol.com Subject: Re: hasek Date: 22 Jan 1997 22:56:50 -0500 (EST) hey he is just a lousy cabbie..................with a weak stick-side! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jlove042@aol.com Subject: Pads Date: 23 Jan 1997 02:01:03 -0500 (EST) Hi everyone, i'm looking for a set of pads to use on ice. I have very old garbage and don't even know the name, they are so bad that I use them for roller hockey. Can anyone give me advice on a set of goal pads that are inexpensive, I'm not looking for name! Looking to spend $500.00 or less. John #42 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Strobridge Subject: My first game Date: 23 Jan 1997 02:37:24 -0500 (EST) Hey all, Just had to tell somebody about my first bit of PT here at Virginia Tech (yes, we do actually have a hockey team :) ). Granted, it was only the last 11.6 seconds at the end of a game where we were leading 6 to 4 with the face-off in the other team's zone but .... I can now technically say I have a 0.00 GAA. Of course, my Save % is still infinity ( (0 - 0) / 0 ). :) But, the highlight of the night was the group of about 6 or 7 guys from Liberty U. (the school we played against) standing next our bench right where I was standing and were heckling me the whole game. For just about all 50 minutes of the game, all I could hear was "Number 35 ..... Strobridge ..... The Gate Keeper!!!" (since my job was to open the door for the forwards and defensemen), "Open the gate!!!", "Close the gate!!!", and "Hey, Strobridge, you gonna get any PT??" Eventually, they moved on to more obscene variations of my name such as "Stro-b**ch". I thought it was pretty funny that they had to resort to taunting the back-up goalie. Unfortunately, they had all left by the time I got to go into the game, so I didn't get to show them up. Oh well, we can't have everything we want. Well, sorry for wasting so much space with this, but I just had to get it out of my system. Overall, it's been a very entertaining night! Dave Strobridge GAA: 0.00 Save %: inifinity Playing Time: 11.6 seconds ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David DeCoster Subject: Re: Now: Butterfly Re: Old goalies.... Date: 23 Jan 1997 06:14:02 -0500 (EST) > Excerpts from mail: 22-Jan-97 Re: Now: Butterfly Re: Old .. > PAULSTERN@aol.com (1379) > One last thing. I noticed when I met Patrick Roy in person, that > he seems to > have very flexible hips. If you watch him when he walks, he is > almost > pidgeon toed and his upper body seems to move disconnected with > his lower > body. It is quite noticeable. That explains that head jerk thing he does during the game. Davey D David L DeCoster Dept. 40G, Lanserver Development and RF/Systems Support We've done so much for so long with so little. Now we can do anything with nothing. Internal: decoster@rchland, decoster@endvm5 Internet: ddecoster@vnet.ibm.com TL 855-6630 / (607) 755-6630 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Chapman Subject: Unidentified subject! Date: 23 Jan 1997 09:31:09 -0500 -------- David, Butterflying is probably harder on your knees than a stand-up style, but I think there are things you can do to decrease the effect. I know everyone's knees are different, but I injured my MCL and cartilage in my left knee and I do have to make extra precautions. One of the best preventative measures to take is to strengthen the mucles around the knee, the quads/hamstrings/calves. The will hold you knee in a more stable state through various motions. As for pregame warmups, before each game, I make sure to get the blood flowing to the are by jogging in place to get the large muscles warm. I then loosen up my hips by trunk twists while pivoting on the balls of my feet and doing hip rotations with my hands on my hips. Then a crucial step, knee rotations, with my hands *gently* on my quads above the knee, rotating my knees both clockwise and counterclockwise, bending slightly at the knee. This movement will warm up the knee area, slightly stretching the muscles surrounding the knee, but the excersise must be done gently and slowly. I is also very important when excersizing/stretching to be aware of your knee's limitations. Don't do lunges/squats/deep knee bends that force your knee over your toes, your knee should be in line with your ankle. Hurdler's stretches for your quad's are also dangerous for your knee, as well as side splits where your knee faces *forward* and not *upward* where it should face. These stretches place unnatural vectors of force on your knee and could loosen/tear ligaments. When dropping into a butterfly, try not to let your butt hit your ankles, stay more upright since this will A) cover more upper net and B) not cause your knee to bend at > 90 degree angle. Also your pads can help. More knee padding will cushion the shock better, a butterfly design knee cradle which will allow your knee to move freely (within limits) in the leg channel. Also, when I butterfly, I don't think of slamming my knees down, I think of getting my ankles in a V to cover more net, maybe that will help. On the bad side, if I do play alot of hockey in a short amount of time, my knee will ache a bit and ice does help. But my love of hockey and goaltending keeps me going. I'd much rather give up skiing than hockey!! Pls forgive my rambling, but I hate to think that getting older (I'm 31) will slow me down. Heck, you should see my Taekwon-Do instructor, he's mid 40's and still does a mean jump spinning hook kick! (And his instructor is in his 60's and is in better shape and can jump higher than alot of 14 year olds!) Dave ---------------==============================--------------- David Chapman Internet: dchap@vnet.ibm.com IBM Microelectronics IBM net: dchap@btv.ibm.com (802) 769-7540 (tieline 446) vnet: dchap at btv ---------------==============================--------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kevin C. Scott" Subject: aging Date: 23 Jan 1997 10:44:56 -0500 To all our "aging" netminders - Well said! I'm 25 (been playing for almost two years now - ice/inline) and only looking to get better as time goes on. I went to a camp up in London, Ontario for the first time (last winter) at 24 years. The next oldest was 14. Needless to say it was a comical situation, having the little ones gather round you thinking - "wow - I bet he's really great. He's so big (6' 2" 185lbs.) and I bet he's fast too... and been playing for a loooong time..." Well, two hours of drills later, it was clear that while I'm no slouch when it comes time for hard work, there were obviously some kids on the ice with much more highly developed skills than my own. I only wish my parents had encouraged some sort of physical activity when I was younger - I've got a lot of catching up to do... Think I'll be as good as the Beezer or the others if I keep at it for another eight years? No, but it'll be lot's of fun trying... (before I get flamed - I don't seriously aspire to go that far - actually, my goal for the moment is improvement and a hard earned shutout.) Cheers, -oh, a bit of a funny: You might recal a recent beer commercial with lots of goalies sitting around a bar extolling the virtues of this brew or that - each with his mask on. The bar is in quite good spirits with lots of voices and then a stranger walks in and the place falls silent. The stranger walks over to the bar and orders a beer. He sits down with everyone giving him a puzzled, anxious look. Amidst the silence, the stranger reaches into his pack and puts on a goalie mask. The bar erupts in a chorus of "hey, how ya doin' - good to see ya..." and the festive atmosphere resumes. Well, I went to a restaurant for lunch the other day with some people from work and ran into some guys I play hockey with. I waved hello and received only a pensive stare in return. I made a kind of puck dribble motion with an imaginary stick and the guy made a "duh!" and said - "I didn't recognize you without your gear..." Forwards can be so stupid... -- Kevin C. Scott Space Science Center http://www.ccssc.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Old Hockey Goalies Date: 23 Jan 1997 09:20:37 -0800 (PST) Playing hockey is rough on the body; playing goalie is really rough. The position is physically demanding filled with constant dings received practically every time we play. We all know this. We all accept it as part of the game we love. There has been a lot of concern lately about the effects of age and how long we can expect to play. I am now 41 years old and have played goalie for about 14 years. I can safely say that I am playing my best hockey now. I play pickup hockey 2-3 times per week, mostly late at night against all age groups from teenagers to my age and I keep up. Age should not be a bar nor should it be something for you to worry about. I have played against 60+ year olds and intend to play until I drop dead. I just bought new goal pads and intend to wear them out and buy more. What little I've lost in speed I've made up for in knowing the game; at being able to anticipate the play and getting into position to be hit by the puck. Keeping in shape is important. Good shape, not great shape; tone and flexibility mean more than muscular mass. Playing other sports (i.e. basketball and volleyball) can help. Playing against players better than you to push your limits is very helpful. More important than physical shape is mental shape. Staying young at heart and playing for the thrill of it. Keep that and your age doesn't matter. Just my two cents. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Re: Question Date: 23 Jan 1997 09:33:19 -0800 (PST) >In our league there is one guy who loves to come in just in front of >the crease and park himself between me and the puck. The pants he >wears seem wider than the ones I wear, so he makes an excellent >screen. Our league is a non-checking league - so it is tough for the >defense to bodily move him out of the way. > >What are your favorite (legal) methods of getting those types of >players out of the way, or at least dicourage them from spending a >lot of time there?? Last night I tried going at the back of his skate >blades with my stick, but found that only put notches in the bottom >of my $40 stick.... > >Bill Bill First, tell your defense to push him out of the way. Pushing is allowed in non-checking leagues particularly in front of the goal. Second, push him yourself. A good shove between the shoulders can send the message that he is where he is not wanted. Be careful not to push when the other team is in a position to shoot. The most effective methods are, unfortunately, illegal. One is the stick to the calves. Just a tap will do. Another is to put your stick blade behind his knees and push; he will quickly fall to the ice. Making his stay miserable in this fashion will either get him to stay out or so piss him off that he gets a retaliatory penalty. Keep it light and you will get his attention without hurting him. Good luck. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Re: hasek Date: 23 Jan 1997 10:20:47 -0800 (PST) Well if sneaker company's made goalie equpiment... I loved that whole 'react juice' campaign by Converse. Remember that one? Where they put a little bit of lemonaide on a clear bubble on the shoe? That was the one where the basket ball player/ announcer (forgot his name) claimed that it would make you "cut faster" and "jump higher." I wonder if they ever got sued for that. Well, how about react juice goal equipment? RJ Trapper: Makes you catch quicker... and the juice even prevents rebounds! You can fill in the rest. The bad part though, is if the bubble breaks... then you'll have a yellow stain in the crease..... Tal At 03:16 PM 1/22/97 -0500, David L. Fielding wrote: > >Actually, I like the sneakers that light up when you walk. >I can't wait for a set of goalie pads that "flash" when the >puck hits them. > >Maybe Scott can design a set with light weight batteries. >Please avoid using a red colored light. > >How about a set of pads made of sticky/jelly substance that the >puck just happens to stick to! Rebounds are no longer a problem. > > > ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Malicki" Subject: Re: hasek Date: 23 Jan 1997 13:46:06 -0500 Howdy all: > The bad part though, is if the bubble breaks... then you'll have a yellow > stain in the crease..... > > Tal Let's be honest....how many of haven't been through this before, when faced with a mean slap-shot? :) Anyways, for new gimmicks, you could try cross-training equipment...you know, a trapper that could double as a baseball mitt, skates that are also track shoes, etc. How about a set of pads with a proximity sensor....if someone comes too close, spikes come out and do some "persuasion". Finally, this is a true story. A while back, a neighbor's son was getting into goaltending. He had a set of thos Mylec Street hockey pads (you know the ones.....foam with a plastic front). Anyways, when the son wanted to try Ice hockey, the Dad was going to simply wrap the pads in sheet metal! When the son realized that this would cause a lot of sliding, the father said he's put screws through the front, so they'd dig into the ice! Matt Malicki ------------ Malickim@tir.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Re: hasek Date: 23 Jan 1997 11:17:35 -0800 (PST) On the serious tip... Way back when, when I bought my previous Bauers, I noticed a brand of skates called something like 'switch-it'. As far as the guy at the skate store was concerned- rollerblades sucked (among some other profanities) becuase they were being made in Taiwan, but Swith-It's were one of the best. Okay, we have to take into account that the skate store was on Haight street in San Francisco... not your bastion of 'unclouded minds' if you will. Anyway, these switch it's made it really east to change chassis- from 4 wheel to 5 wheel to ice. I haven't seen them around at all lately. Anyone every hear or see of them? I think I didn't get them because of price or something. Besides, the Bauer's were comfy and light. Tal At 01:46 PM 1/23/97 -0500, Matt Malicki wrote: >Howdy all: > > >> The bad part though, is if the bubble breaks... then you'll have a yellow >> stain in the crease..... >> >> Tal > Let's be honest....how many of haven't been through this before, when >faced with a mean slap-shot? :) > > Anyways, for new gimmicks, you could try cross-training equipment...you >know, a trapper that could double as a baseball mitt, skates that are also >track shoes, etc. > > How about a set of pads with a proximity sensor....if someone comes too >close, spikes come out and do some "persuasion". > > Finally, this is a true story. A while back, a neighbor's son was getting >into goaltending. He had a set of thos Mylec Street hockey pads (you know >the ones.....foam with a plastic front). Anyways, when the son wanted to >try Ice hockey, the Dad was going to simply wrap the pads in sheet metal! >When the son realized that this would cause a lot of sliding, the father >said he's put screws through the front, so they'd dig into the ice! > >Matt Malicki >------------ >Malickim@tir.com > > > ___________________________________ Hey, check out my web page and buy a light: http://home.earthlink.net/~liteline Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: or go to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Experienced goalies! Date: 23 Jan 1997 12:25:52 -0800 Wolf writes: I will be 37 in April, am in near great physical shape, and possess GREAT reaction speed! I play 4-8 times a week now. I played 8-10 times a week last winter, 3 league teams and pick up. [...] I am a little affended by the comments of how we must be slower because we are over 30. I would put my skills against ANY goalie of any calibre at any age with the same team in front of both of us. given that you're playing on average nearly every night of the week, that's hardly a surprise. speaking for myself, when i was in my best form i was playing one practice, and one game a week. two more nights a week i took my pads to public skate to work on endurance and balance. note that public skate just doesn't give you the same workout. most of the folks i talk to that hold down a job, have a family and/or too many hobbies, AND play hockey, most of them don't play every night of the week. three to four is the high end of the scale. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Chapman Subject: Unidentified subject! Date: 23 Jan 1997 15:38:00 -0500 -------- Hi All, Sorry to bog the list down for everyone, but I was wondering about San Jose goalies out there. If there are any (and I think there are) Could you e-mail me privately? I just some questions to ask about the area, hockey availability, cost-of-living, housing costs, etc... Thanks alot and sorry to bother the whole list! Dave ---------------==============================--------------- David Chapman Internet: dchap@vnet.ibm.com IBM Microelectronics IBM net: dchap@btv.ibm.com (802) 769-7540 (tieline 446) vnet: dchap at btv ---------------==============================--------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: goalieootttaA Subject: replacing skate blades Date: 23 Jan 1997 12:52:24 -0800 (PST) Hi guys, Just wondering what kind of feedback people are getting from sporting good stores on replacing skate blades without replacing the cowling. I've been doing this for awhile as I get my blades sharpened a lot but I haven't found a sporting good store yet who will say anything except the whole cowling needs replacing. I used to take mine to a fellow in a small business and he would pop out the rivets and just change the blade. Is anyone else still doing this as it saves money just to swap the blades. I've never had any trouble with the replaced blade being loose or unbalanced. If anyone knows who the local Bauer rep is in BC that would be helpful as I need to order new blades. Thanks, Lisa ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leahs@earthlink.net (Larry Smith) Subject: Re: Old Hockey Goalies Date: 23 Jan 1997 13:45:03 -0800 (PST) >Larry, > > I agree 100%. I plan to play until I drop dead. > > In an earlier note you mentioned a few problems with >your Battram pads. Breaking them in was one. The other one >that concerns me more is the rebounds. Someone else posted a >while back that his Battram pads didn't give long rebounds and the >puck would drop a foot in from of him. I don't have the article >handy so I'm not sure which model he purchased. I thoght Scott >wrote once that the internals of his pads are pretty much >identical. > > I'm thinking about buy Battram pads, not sure which >model. I like the 3500's, but given I play only a couple of times >a week I'm not sure it worth it. The 2000's might be more >reasonable. > > David David I saw the article you referred to; where the guy says pucks hit his Battram pads and drop at his feet. I think he was also referring to BPGP 2000 goal pads. That certainly has not been my experience. My pads are still giving long rebounds; as long as my old Coopers which had a solid piece of foam as filler. Scott has assured me that the pads will soften and lengthy rebounds would be a thing of the past. Scott, however, I think, was surprised when I reported to him that I was having the problem at all. At this point I would still recommend the pad based on the quality construction used to make it and the overall excellent appearance and fit. I can't comment on the difference between the 2000's and the 3500's, but the 2000 was more than enough pad for my purposes (2-3 times per week; pickup hockey). I'm hoping the rebound problem solves itself. If not, I'll go back to Scott and ask for some help. Hope this helps. Larry Smith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Subject: Re: hasek Date: 23 Jan 1997 15:47:15 -0600 (CST) On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, David L. Fielding wrote: > How about a set of pads made of sticky/jelly substance that the > puck just happens to stick to! Rebounds are no longer a problem. > Yet another use for Velcro :) Put the fuzzy stuff on the pads, and upt acouple of stripes of the other half on the puck. Puck hits pad, and wahlah! no rebounds ;) Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Branchaud Subject: Convertible skates Date: 23 Jan 1997 16:55:30 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Tal Mashhadian wrote: > On the serious tip... > > Way back when, when I bought my previous Bauers, I noticed a brand of skates > called something like 'switch-it'. [snip] > Anyway, these switch it's made it really east to change chassis- from 4 > wheel to 5 wheel to ice. > > I haven't seen them around at all lately. Anyone every hear or see of them? I remember these! Pat Lafontaine was their spokesperson at first. As far as I know, they failed miserably in Canada because inline skating was seen as yet another hopeless fad to come out of California. These were available only in player's boots and had rivets that extruded from the boot that allowed you to snap on the wheels or the blades, depending on what activity you wanted to do. A novel idea, but I wonder how stable the wheels/blades were in hard start/stop situations. HotBranch! ************** Paul Branchaud (paul@vedge.com) "What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit Technical Writer names their team `The Ducks'?" Visual Edge Software, Ltd. Bugs Bunny to Daffy Duck in Space Jam **The Surgeon General has determined that the above-stated opinions are loopy and should not be inhaled or otherwise taken to be fact** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: Experienced goalies! Date: 23 Jan 1997 18:15:10 -0500 (EST) At 12:25 PM 1/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >Wolf writes: > I will be 37 in April, am in near great physical shape, and possess GREAT > reaction speed! I play 4-8 times a week now. I played 8-10 times a week last > winter, 3 league teams and pick up. [...] > > I am a little affended by the comments of how we must be slower because we > are over 30. I would put my skills against ANY goalie of any calibre at any > age with the same team in front of both of us. > >given that you're playing on average >nearly every night of the week, that's >hardly a surprise. > >speaking for myself, when i was in my >best form i was playing one practice, >and one game a week. two more nights >a week i took my pads to public skate >to work on endurance and balance. note >that public skate just doesn't give you >the same workout. > >most of the folks i talk to that hold >down a job, have a family and/or too >many hobbies, AND play hockey, most of >them don't play every night of the week. >three to four is the high end of the scale. > > stormwind > > hell's amazon > lord of the frozen realm > > > Actually, in this area of Canada, you would be surprised that there are many over 40 leagues, and a few over 50 leagues... one team in our city (Canadian Tire Old Timers) would have the majority of its players in the 50 - 65 year bracket. These guys practice once a week and play alot of games, I am certain their goaltender who would be over 50 (and uses our equipment of course!!!) told me that the one season with tournaments, and games they played well over 100 games of hockey... Each season they take a trip to play, I think they went to Europe last year and toured there making hockey their vacation... The one player is in his 60's and he would make alot of young players look sad with his skills... but then again he also played at very high levels of play when he was younger! I also know Peter McDuffe (a former NHL goalie for many seasons) and Peter plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs Alumni team, and those guys are in their late 40's - 50's, and still play very good hockey... Myself at 23, I just hope I can still go out and have some fun when I am 50! Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: goalieootttaA Subject: Re: replacing skate blades Date: 23 Jan 1997 17:12:40 -0800 (PST) Hi Paul! These are Bauer 1000 goalies skates. I had the molding specially configured to take care of the fact that I am fitting a girl's foot in a guy's skate. I don't lose much to each sharpeneing as my dad built a sharpener (he's a hobbiest machinest) and only takes 2 passes to get my skates to a really deep hollow, which I need as my weight is less than a lot of goalies. I know Bauer has gone to at least a 4000 boot, but for my 1000's, which don't look that different from what I see in SG stores now, the blade can be slid out of the cowlings and replaced. I have had it done several times and the process involves simply removing the boot to cowling rivets and sliding in a new blade. But these are 1000's, they may have changed the design. Let me know if I am wrong here, if Bauer has changed the cowling so that a new blade cannot be attached. Much appreciated, Lisa On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Paul Branchaud wrote: > Hi Lisa! > > Are you talking about goalie skates or player skates? With player skates, > it's a piece of cake to replace only the blade: you remove the cowling > from the boot, unscrew the blade from the inside of the cowling, replace > the blade, and re-rivet the cowling to the boot. As for goalie skates, I > don't know of any other way than to replace the whole armored > boot/cowling. The blade is usually cast into the plastic aromored boot > and is not removeable even when the boot has been removed. I know of one > place in Montreal that carries goalie cowlings/armored boots for around > $120/pair. It's a simple matter of riveting the new blade/cowling to the > leather boot. Other than that, I can't really help you. Although it > sounds to me like you lose a lot of blade with each sharpening. My blades > are at least at 75% of their original size from when I bought them 4.5 > years ago and I have them sharpened pretty regularly. Intriguing... > > Best of luck. > > HotBranch! > ************** > Paul Branchaud (paul@vedge.com) "What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit > Technical Writer names their team `The Ducks'?" > Visual Edge Software, Ltd. Bugs Bunny to Daffy Duck in Space Jam > **The Surgeon General has determined that the above-stated opinions > are loopy and should not be inhaled or otherwise taken to be fact** > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenn Subject: [Fwd: Re: Old Hockey Goalies] Date: 24 Jan 1997 00:15:12 -0800 Kenn wrote: > > Well, I have been silently reading the geriatric play by play with a > bemused attitude. Until, today. I was playing my regular mid-week game > and an older gentleman (roughly seventy years) ambled toward me at > game's end; "You're playing better then ever, Hutch!" (have not been > called that in a dog's age). > > Well, I foud out during the next length of discussion that this old man, > was my junior hockey team coach. He had not seen me play for twenty > some odd years, yet with different, gear, place (Montreal then, > Vancouver now) he still recognized my 'style'. His only other > goaltending musing -- "at least you have solved the five hole problem!" > > So, you see, it may take time but one can, improve their game, with hard > work, and patience, in my old coach's eye some twenty years. > > DOB 12 June 1952. > > -- > Soit sage et prudent! > > Kenn > > http://www.geocities/westhollywood/5393 -- Soit sage et prudent! Kenn http://www.geocities/westhollywood/5393 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Branchaud Subject: Battram Rebounds Date: 24 Jan 1997 10:10:05 -0500 (EST) Larry, David, et al I believe I was one of the first to mention that rebounds off my Battram pads land within a few feet of my legs and are easily corraled for a cover. That said, I still do produce some killer rebounds that fly a good 10-15 feet (which is still better than the 30+ feet I was used to before). A big part of how far the puck rebounds is how you "meet" the puck with your pad. If you meet the puck with a kicking motion, you are guaranteed to get more milage from your rebound. Sometimes, due to reaction and the speed of the incoming shot, it's hard to not give up a big rebound: you're lucky to get your pad there in time period, and the motion of your leg reaching the spot has the effect of kicking the puck away. However, when you have time to be fully set and the shot gets drilled into a stationary pad, you'll notice that the rebound should be considerably shorter. You can help your cause further by trying to angle your leg down (by bending a bit further at the knee) just as the puck meets it, to force the rebound to the ice as close to the pad as possible. Battram pads are very dense, yet they are designed to minimize rebound length. If you meet the puck with a kicking motion, the soft foams at the front of the pad will have little to no effect on slowing the puck down and the denser foams inside the pad will have a greater effect on the rebound's distance. One trick I have been told about, but never tried, involves how you secure the pads to your legs. This advice comes from the Montreal-area Brian's rep. Making sure that the pad is properly secured to your skate and that your knee is properly locked and tightened into place, do not tighten the three shin straps beyond the point where the start to get taught. By keeping the shin straps relatively loose, you are creating a small space between your shin and the pad; when the puck hits your pad, the whole pad moves back onto your leg, displacing the air. I personally have never tried this method because my knees are gimpy enough that I like to allow them to move as much as possible within the pad and I have always liked to have the shin straps tight. I suspect that this method is most applicable for stand up goalies, since I doubt a butterflyer would really benefit from this technique. Anyhoo, that's my 1/50th of a dollar on the subject. HotBranch! ************** Paul Branchaud (paul@vedge.com) "What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit Technical Writer names their team `The Ducks'?" Visual Edge Software, Ltd. Bugs Bunny to Daffy Duck in Space Jam **The Surgeon General has determined that the above-stated opinions are loopy and should not be inhaled or otherwise taken to be fact** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Battram Subject: Re: Battram Rebounds Date: 24 Jan 1997 10:41:15 -0500 (EST) > >Battram pads are very dense, yet they are designed to minimize rebound >length. If you meet the puck with a kicking motion, the soft foams at the >front of the pad will have little to no effect on slowing the puck down >and the denser foams inside the pad will have a greater effect on the >rebound's distance. > >One trick I have been told about, but never tried, involves how you >secure the pads to your legs. This advice comes from the Montreal-area >Brian's rep. Making sure that the pad is properly secured to your skate >and that your knee is properly locked and tightened into place, do not >tighten the three shin straps beyond the point where the start to get >taught. By keeping the shin straps relatively loose, you are creating a >small space between your shin and the pad; when the puck hits your pad, >the whole pad moves back onto your leg, displacing the air. I personally >have never tried this method because my knees are gimpy enough that I >like to allow them to move as much as possible within the pad and I have >always liked to have the shin straps tight. I suspect that this method is >most applicable for stand up goalies, since I doubt a butterflyer would >really benefit from this technique. > Actually. this is the same technique that I use, and also recommend... maybe this would help solve Larry's problem. Also, I very rarely give large rebounds, its not in the pads but, much more in the technique used to stop the puck. >Anyhoo, that's my 1/50th of a dollar on the subject. > >HotBranch! >************** >Paul Branchaud (paul@vedge.com) "What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit >Technical Writer names their team `The Ducks'?" >Visual Edge Software, Ltd. Bugs Bunny to Daffy Duck in Space Jam > **The Surgeon General has determined that the above-stated opinions > are loopy and should not be inhaled or otherwise taken to be fact** > > > > Scott Battram *** Owner - BATTRAM CUSTOM GOAL EQUIPMENT *** Woodstock, Ontario Canada TEL: (519)539-4495 FAX:(519)539-6689 WWW: http://execulink.com/~sbattram/index.htm Manufacturing Quality Custom Made Goalie Equipment Est. 1992 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Steinhart Subject: Re: The Mental Game Date: 24 Jan 1997 09:23:51 -0700 (MST) Reply to Rick: > > I do agree with Tal. Even today, If I can get one GREAT save, I can force > myself to get back into the rest of game. > > My question to others is how to force yourself to focus on a game when you > have other external pressures? No question that getting a great save can make all the difference. But of course the problem is getting it in the first place. I have a tendency to be very inconsistent, so I'll make what people think is an impossible save, then let in a soft goal. What has worked for me in the past it to think about non-hockey stuff before the game, while stretching. Having just gone thru a divorce last year, I expected the worst. I figured I would be blowing saves left and right, becaue I would be thinking about the divorce. Interestingly, the first game (well, drop-in) I had after the divorce was great. Then I had some bad ones, but I continued to think about before the game, and tell myself that I could spend as much time as I wanted doing that, and once I was on the ice, I would focus on the positive aspects of my game (what few there are) and my life (there are many). It's not magic, but it works. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lynn M Broberg Subject: Re: hasek Date: 24 Jan 1997 10:58:13 -0600 (CST) Switch-it's went out of business. I always thought that with blades, you want them pretty venty because your feet can get pretty hot in the summer time and for skates you want some insulation because it gets cold in the winter time. So, how would you create a skate that is both? It's practically impossible. But the ice blades that the Switch-its had is considered some of the best on the market. They practically never rust and its a harder blade so you can get a better edge. Lynn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: YEDL33D@prodigy.com (BOBBIE STANFILL) Subject: Re: replacing skate blades Date: 24 Jan 1997 11:07:15, -0500 Lisa, my son's Bauer 4000's, bought last Sept, have rivets only on the cowling to attach it to the boot. 2 on each side of the blade on the back end, and 4 + 3 on the front end. There's no way we can see to just "change the blade" on these. Removing the rivets doesn't seem to loosen the blade. Bobbie, goaliemom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: YEDL33D@prodigy.com (BOBBIE STANFILL) Subject: Re: Switch-its Was Re: hasek Date: 24 Jan 1997 11:07:04, -0500 The last time I saw Switchits was about 1.5 yrs ago, when then-12yo goalie son was looking for new skates. He didnt' like the way they felt inside, not soft but scratchy. And he was concerned that changing them all the time might wear out the bolt holes. Plus, you need different kinds of protection on ice than you do on wooden floors, his primary playing surface. Bobbie, goaliemom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: goalieootttaA Subject: skate blades Date: 24 Jan 1997 10:13:14 -0800 (PST) Hi all, Bauer must have changed the nature of the way the blades are fitted into the cowling from what I have heard from everyone. In the 1000's you can pop rivets and slide the blade out. It seems as if the new blades are embedded so you can't do this. Thanks for all the help! Lisa ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Sanyal" Subject: Re: skate blades Date: 24 Jan 1997 13:28:22 -0500 Hi Lisa, From what I understand about the new Bauers - like my 4000's which I bought last year - is that you have to replace the whole shell, the only thing you can keep is the boot. That is really a bad idea, but I guess they figure they can make more money off you. Take care Steve ssanyal@netcom.ca http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1785 ---------- > From: goalieootttaA > To: hockey-goalie > Subject: skate blades > Date: Friday, January 24, 1997 1:13 PM > > Hi all, > Bauer must have changed the nature of the way the blades are fitted into > the cowling from what I have heard from everyone. In the 1000's you can > pop rivets and slide the blade out. It seems as if the new blades are > embedded so you can't do this. Thanks for all the help! > Lisa > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Hurst Subject: Painting helmets Date: 25 Jan 1997 20:13:13 +0000 Hi folks, I was wondering if anyone can help me. I have a jofa cage-helmet combo and I tried painting it a while back. I only wanted a rough job, so I used household paint (gloss) on a layer of undercoat. It was fine for a while but the trouble is, now, the paint has started to chip away. I want to redo it, but what paint do I need? I don't want a professional job, just one that will not damage the plastic of my helmet or wear away after a few months. I really need paints that are very available in shops (such as in England) as opposed to paints that I've never heard of with complicated names (I don't want a top notch job). Do I paint straight onto the plastic or do I use some kind of undercoat? Do I need to coat the helmet after I've painted it to protect the paint from chipping away and to make the helmet shine? Thanks for any help, -- Dave Hurst ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: YEDL33D@prodigy.com (BOBBIE STANFILL) Subject: Re: replacing skate blades Date: 25 Jan 1997 15:42:01, -0500 Chuck said:Pull out the insole and you should see a hole in the bottom of >the boot. >Are you talking about goal skates? Hmmm, not sure if they are the same. >It can't hurt to pull out the insole, though, and look. Goal skates, that's the only kind with cowling.The blade doesn't reach all the way into the bottom of the foot, the blade holder is an integral part of the cowling. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tal Mashhadian Subject: Re: aging Date: 25 Jan 1997 13:30:04 +0000 It's funny you say that. I just started in a goalie clinic last night with a goalie who used to play on the Rhinos- San Jose's RII team. Anyway, his quote: "forwards are stupid." Tal I waved hello > and received only a pensive stare in return. I made a kind of puck > dribble motion with an imaginary stick and the guy made a "duh!" and > said - "I didn't recognize you without your gear..." Forwards can be > so stupid... > > -- > Kevin C. Scott > Space Science Center > http://www.ccssc.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Sanyal" Subject: Re: Painting helmets Date: 26 Jan 1997 11:36:33 -0500 David, Perhaps someone on the list can advise you more directly, but you might try writing to Jofa or contacting them by other means to ask them, since I have seen some of these masks painted, direct from the factory. For regular masks, you can usually use Automotive refinish paint - that will hold, and then you put a clearcoat on top. On plastic though, I am not sure what it will do to it. Best idea may be to contact Jofa, Regards Steve ssanyal@netcom.ca http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1785 ---------- > From: David Hurst > To: Goalie Mailing List > Subject: Painting helmets > Date: Saturday, January 25, 1997 3:13 PM > > Hi folks, > I was wondering if anyone can help me. I have a jofa cage-helmet combo > and I tried painting it a while back. I only wanted a rough job, so I > used household paint (gloss) on a layer of undercoat. It was fine for a > while but the trouble is, now, the paint has started to chip away. > I want to redo it, but what paint do I need? I don't want a > professional job, just one that will not damage the plastic of my helmet > or wear away after a few months. I really need paints that are very > available in shops (such as in England) as opposed to paints that I've > never heard of with complicated names (I don't want a top notch job). Do > I paint straight onto the plastic or do I use some kind of undercoat? Do > I need to coat the helmet after I've painted it to protect the paint > from chipping away and to make the helmet shine? > Thanks for any help, > -- > Dave Hurst > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rsandler@detroit.freenet.org Subject: Re: "older" goalers Date: 26 Jan 1997 12:14:52 -0500 Mike Santarcangelo wrote: > > > Welcome to adult hockey. Imagine a full work day and a game that starts > > at 10.30 at an arena 40 minutes away from the house! My "other" weekly > > skate is a 7.00 am in the morning on Wednesday. I can sympathize with > > the occaisonal tired game. > > Boy this is a page right out of my book too. I'm 45 (ok 46 in 2 months), > have a day job that, (while it is a desk job takes up lots of hours), > Play goal on an ice team with the earliest game at 7:45 (only once this > season) and the latest starts at 12:30am Our "earliest is 10.00 but the latest is 11.00 pm. But for the rest of us 45ers, its good to know that there are some old guys still playing. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Branchaud Subject: Re: Painting helmets Date: 27 Jan 1997 10:16:38 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, Steven Sanyal wrote: > Perhaps someone on the list can advise you more directly, but you might try > writing to Jofa or contacting them by other means to ask them, since I have > seen some of these masks painted, direct from the factory. For regular > masks, you can usually use Automotive refinish paint - that will hold, and > then you put a clearcoat on top. On plastic though, I am not sure what it > will do to it. Best idea may be to contact Jofa, It would be best to NOT contact Jofa (or any other manufacturer of certified equipment) asking them about having your helmet/mask painted. They will not only tell you that it should not be painted, but that by doing so, you have voided any warranties and certification(s). The certification stickers on your headgear put the manufacturer in a position where they are legally bound to prove that your equipment can adequately protect your head while sustaining a pre-set minimum impact. The manufacturers usually test the gear without paint or stickers and have it certified in that condition. Any modifications made to the equipment immediately voids certification and the company is no longer liable for your safety. You'll notice that the Itech Profile masks that have patterns one them are nothing more than stickers that have been applied to the mask. It is cheaper than painting and gives the mask a "professional" look (even if the stickers are cheesey and easy to peel off). In some cases (especially fiberglass masks), painting doesn't affect the sructural integrity of the protective equipment. In other cases, the plastic (or composite molded materials) *are* affected by oil-based paints. If you plan to paint your headgear, you should use an acrylic paint and many layers of clearcoating to protect the paint job. The clearcoat also helps the mask/helmet look shinier, longer. And remember, always check your equipmemnt for damage after a game, and as soon as you see a crack in your headgear: REPLACE IT. You only have one head, protect it properly! HotBranch! ************** Paul Branchaud (paul@vedge.com) "What kind of Mickey Mouse outfit Technical Writer names their team `The Ducks'?" Visual Edge Software, Ltd. Bugs Bunny to Daffy Duck in Space Jam **The Surgeon General has determined that the above-stated opinions are loopy and should not be inhaled or otherwise taken to be fact** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amazon@kisio.engr.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Painting helmets Date: 27 Jan 1997 11:19:16 -0800 Hotbranch writes: It would be best to NOT contact Jofa (or any other manufacturer of certified equipment) asking them about having your helmet/mask painted. They will not only tell you that it should not be painted, but that by doing so, you have voided any warranties and certification(s). paul is 100% correct here. i own both a van velden fiberglass helmet, and a jofa plastic helmet. jofa absolutely positively WILL NOT talk to you about painting jofa helmets. they will tell you nothing. they will simply go over and over and over the fact that plastic helmets are not supposed to be painted, and that you will void all of your insurance and warranties and make the helmet unsafe. furthermore, whilst talking to don simmons sports, they informed me that if you attempt to play in any kind of tournament with a painted plastic helmet, you WILL be barred from the tournament until you come up with an appropriate helmet. they specifically mentioned that plastic helmets (which are easily identified for goalies) *will* result in you being ejected from the game if they have been painted. fiberglass helmets are, however, acceptable. In some cases (especially fiberglass masks), painting doesn't affect the sructural integrity of the protective equipment. ....provided you use automotive paints for fiberglass or other paints approved for fiberglass work. it's best to either a) take a class in painting fiberglass, or b) bribe someone you know who paints fiberglass or c) bribe a fiberglass professional into taking you on as an "apprentice" while you paint your mask to make sure you don't make any critical mistakes. i'm sure there must be SOME chemicals out there that eat fiberglass. If you plan to paint your headgear, you should use an acrylic paint and many layers of clearcoating to protect the paint job. The clearcoat also helps the mask/helmet look shinier, longer. also be aware that your clearcoat may oxidize; the clearcoat on my "Ice Dragon" mask turned almost entirely yellow within a year of painting, making it look like aged ivory (rather cool, actually). this isn't a structural thing; on the chin area, where friction with the jersey has rubbed off the clearcoat, the mask is still pristine white. and, as has been discussed earlier this month, you'll probably find that you VASTLY prefer the fiberglass helmet to the jofa. they're WAY lighter for starters. if you've got $1K to throw around, I've got Don Strauss' number (the guy who does Hrudey's helmets); if you've only got $150, go talk to Don Simmons, as they have unbeatable helmet prices for plain helmets. stormwind hell's amazon lord of the frozen realm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jlove042@aol.com Subject: Re: Painting helmets Date: 29 Jan 1997 21:40:53 -0500 (EST) Can we the stickers for the helmets, and if so where? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JMdog@aol.com Subject: Re: Painting helmets Date: 30 Jan 1997 22:40:26 -0500 (EST) hey i would like the number for mr strauss thanx zac ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rsandler@detroit.freenet.org Subject: Goal Camp Date: 31 Jan 1997 13:38:04 -0500 Due to utter inactivity, I will assume there is to be NO second goal camp and will make my plans accordingly. BTW Paul, still no posters. Ron