From: owner-n64-digest@lists.xmission.com (n64-digest) To: n64-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: n64-digest V1 #1381 Reply-To: n64-digest Sender: owner-n64-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-n64-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk n64-digest Saturday, November 25 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1381 Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? Re: [N64] Unbreakable Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:58:02 -0600 From: Thraxen Subject: Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C05672.610127A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not saying it does but i'm saying it's a factor. It's quite = obvious GBA isn't shaped like an SNES controller ands the SNES buttom = layout was designed with the controller shape in mind. It could be a = factor and to discount it I think is just being ignorant. Not to insult = you, but there's really no data out there and we're not ergonomic = experts. You can neither rule it out or rule it in. But we do have to = consider it. >> Seriously Dex...there are tons of controllers out there of every shape = and size. I don't think anybody is going to find the GBA ackward to = hold. I don't buy the ergonomics excuse at all. They probably thought about it long and hard. For me, its far more = important to have the shoulder buttons than two extra buttons on the = face of the GBA. >>> I like the buttons on the shoulder...everyone has those these days, = but they also have a lot of face buttons. It should have been made with = both. More buttons (within reason, of course) will always make games = easier to control. Hell, people griped about the DC controllers only = having 4 face buttons...the GBA should have had at least 4. =20 You want it all, but I reserve final judgement until i finally see and = hold one in my hand. I may agree with you. GBA is a console in its own = right. Trying to think about all the great ports that might come over = from the SNES is counter productive.>>> That is not even the main point really...games (in general) these days = simply require more buttons to have easy to use control. With the GBA = being 32-bit, it is sure to have some fairly complicated games that = people will find they wished they had more buttons to work with...I = would bet money on that any day. Surely you can't fail to see that? Stryder - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C05672.610127A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
I'm not saying it does but i'm saying it's a factor.  It's = quite=20 obvious GBA isn't shaped like an SNES controller ands the SNES buttom = layout=20 was designed with the controller shape  in mind.  It could = be a=20 factor and to discount it I think is just being ignorant.  Not to = insult=20 you, but there's really no data out there and we're not ergonomic=20 experts.  You can neither rule it out or rule it in.  But we = do have=20 to consider it. >>
 
 
Seriously Dex...there are tons of = controllers out=20 there of every shape and size.  I don't think anybody is going to = find=20 the GBA ackward to hold. I don't buy the ergonomics excuse at=20 all.
They probably thought about it long and hard.  For me, its = far more=20 important to have the shoulder buttons than two extra buttons on the = face of=20 the GBA.  >>>
 
I like the buttons on the = shoulder...everyone has=20 those these days, but they also have a lot of face buttons.  It = should=20 have been made with both.  More buttons (within reason, of=20 course) will always make games easier to control.  Hell, = people=20 griped about the DC controllers only having 4 face buttons...the GBA = should=20 have had at least 4. 
 
 
You want it all, but I reserve final judgement until i finally = see and=20 hold one in my hand. I may agree with you.  GBA is a console in = its own=20 right.  Trying to think about all the great ports that might come = over=20 from the SNES is counter productive.>>>
 
That is not even the main point = really...games=20 (in general) these days simply require more buttons to have easy to = use=20 control.  With the GBA being 32-bit, it is sure to have some = fairly=20 complicated games that people will find they wished they had more = buttons to=20 work with...I would bet money on that any day.  Surely you can't = fail to=20 see that?
 
 
Stryder
- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C05672.610127A0-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:35:49 EST From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? - --part1_63.e4180bf.2750b7c5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 11/24/2000 7:52:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20 DarkBastion@aol.com writes: > Oh come on, Dex. I think you are arguing just for the sake of being=20 > difficult. I don't think ergonomics enters into it: 2 more buttons on the=20 > GBA=20 > would not be a big deal at all. You wanna talk ergonomic problems? How=20 > about=20 > those shoulder buttons? Almost drop your damn GBA if the thing is heavy=20 > enough and you need the shoulder buttons. I don't see why Nintendo isn't=20 > gonna put those 2 extra buttons on, I mean games like Zelda: ALTTP and=20 > Super=20 > Metroid used all the buttons. They are gonna feel derivative if they are=20 > stripped of those other 2 buttons.=20 >=20 >=20 > ~Matt=20 I have to agree with Matt on this one. My initial reaction to the GBA was=20 that it was a disappointment. The very thought of a "portable" Zelda 3 or=20 Metroid 3 was enough to convince me that this would be the greatest handheld= =20 device ever made. Then: two buttons?! What were they thinking? I mean, is= =20 this some sort of reversal roles for Nintendo? They made a competitive and=20 well marketed handheld (GBC) and a problem plagued console (N64), and now=20 they might be doing a total flip-flop of that stance. I mean, not that GBA=20 will be bad. More than likely, it'll be a very good system. But how=20 Nintendo plans to port those SNES classics to it at this point (if they do=20 plan to), is completely beyond me. - -Eric- You keep on walking, where will you go? Walk again, in the company of the wind March with confidence until you get to where you=E2=80=99re going Until you finally grab that dream. =E2=80=9CKaze to Issho ni=E2=80=9D My=C3=BBts=C3=BB no Gyakush=C3=BB - --part1_63.e4180bf.2750b7c5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 11/24/2000 7:52:03 PM Pacific Stand= ard Time,
DarkBastion@aol.com writes:


Oh come on, Dex. I think yo= u are arguing just for the sake of being=20
difficult. I don't think ergonomics enters into it: 2 more buttons on th= e
GBA=20
would not be a big deal at all. You wanna talk ergonomic problems? How <= BR>about=20
those shoulder buttons? Almost drop your damn GBA if the thing is heavy=20
enough and you need the shoulder buttons. I don't see why Nintendo isn't= =20
gonna put those 2 extra buttons on, I mean games like Zelda: ALTTP and <= BR>Super=20
Metroid used all the buttons. They are gonna feel derivative if they are= =20
stripped of those other 2 buttons.=20


~Matt


I have to agree with Matt on this one.  My initial reaction to the=20= GBA was
that it was a disappointment.  The very thought of a "porta= ble" Zelda 3 or
Metroid 3 was enough to convince me that this would be t= he greatest handheld
device ever made.  Then: two buttons?!  W= hat were they thinking?  I mean, is
this some sort of reversal role= s for Nintendo?  They made a competitive and
well marketed handheld= (GBC) and a problem plagued console (N64), and now
they might be doing=20= a total flip-flop of that stance.  I mean, not that GBA
will be bad= .  More than likely, it'll be a very good system.  But how
Nin= tendo plans to port those SNES classics to it at this point (if they do
= plan to), is completely beyond me.
-Eric-

You keep on walking, where will you go?
Walk again, in the company of the wind
March with confidence until you get to where you=E2=80=99re going
Until you finally grab that dream.

=E2=80=9CKaze to Issho ni=E2=80=9D  My=C3=BBts=C3=BB no Gyakush=C3= =BB - --part1_63.e4180bf.2750b7c5_boundary-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:40:10 EST From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? - --part1_81.3563abe.2750b8ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/24/2000 8:08:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20 dextersy@home.com writes: > GBA is a console in its own right. Trying to think about all the great=20 > ports that might come over from the SNES is counter productive. Nintendo=20 > may do ports to milk its older fanbase, but with cartridges going up to 25= 6=20 > megabits (same size as Zelda) I think Nintendo is planning to support it=20 >=20 I guess this is a good point as well. We need to move on. It's just that=20 with Nintendo making ports of their old NES games to GBC, one would guess=20 that GBA would get ports of SNES games. I'd like to see that, but seeing a=20 32-bit Pok=E9mon game would be even better. :) It still kinda stinks, IMO,=20 about only 2 buttons. - -Eric- The moon is like an authority, with its circular pattern How round, so round... No matter what happens in the world, the night goes on "Nyarth no Uta" Pocket Monsters - --part1_81.3563abe.2750b8ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/24/2000 8:08:26 PM Pacific Stand= ard Time,
dextersy@home.com writes:


GBA is a console in its own= right.  Trying to think about all the great
ports that might come=20= over from the SNES is counter productive. Nintendo
may do ports to milk=20= its older fanbase, but with cartridges going up to 256
megabits (same si= ze as Zelda)  I think Nintendo is planning to support it
with softw= are unique to the handheld, and tailor made as portable games.


I guess this is a good point as well.  We need to move on.  It= 's just that
with Nintendo making ports of their old NES games to GBC, o= ne would guess
that GBA would get ports of SNES games.  I'd like to= see that, but seeing a
32-bit Pok=E9mon game would be even better. :) &= nbsp;It still kinda stinks, IMO,
about only 2 buttons.
-Eric-

The moon is like an authority, with its circular pattern
How round, so round...
No matter what happens in the world, the night goes on

"Nyarth no Uta"  Pocket Monsters - --part1_81.3563abe.2750b8ca_boundary-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:06:48 -0800 From: Dexter Sy Subject: Re: [N64] Unbreakable - --------------BACED20A01A7C760F92302F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reviews for it have been mixed. Thraxen wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DarkBastion@aol.com > To: n64@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 9:45 PM > Subject: [N64] Unbreakable > Hey all. I just saw M. Night Shyamalan's "Unbreakable," and > I must say I'm > impressed. I'd like to think a bit more about the film, but > my initial > impressions are that it is a very well done film. I know it > won't be as > widely accepted or critically acclaimed as "The Sixth > Sense," though. > > ~Matt >>>> > > I though Unbreakable was a little goofy. It was like a > movie based on a comic that tried to pass itself off as a > serious movie....just seems strange. I enjoyed somewhat, > but was a little let down. Stryder > - -- Dexter S. Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine Http://www.tendobox.com - --------------BACED20A01A7C760F92302F8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reviews for it have been mixed.
 
 

Thraxen wrote:

 
----- Original Message -----
From: DarkBastion@aol.com
To: n64@lists.xmission.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 9:45 PM
Subject: [N64] Unbreakable
 Hey all. I just saw M. Night Shyamalan's "Unbreakable," and I must say I'm
impressed. I'd like to think a bit more about the film, but my initial
impressions are that it is a very well done film. I know it won't be as
widely accepted or critically acclaimed as "The Sixth Sense," though.

~Matt >>>>

  I though Unbreakable was a little goofy.  It was like a movie based on a comic that tried to pass itself off as a serious movie....just seems strange.  I enjoyed somewhat, but was a little let down. Stryder

--
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com
  - --------------BACED20A01A7C760F92302F8-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:09:52 -0800 From: Dexter Sy Subject: Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? - --------------E006FC6B5F9C1547209D2178 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > I guess this is a good point as well. We need to move on. It's just > that > with Nintendo making ports of their old NES games to GBC, one would > guess > that GBA would get ports of SNES games. I'd like to see that, but > seeing a > 32-bit Pokémon game would be even better. :) It still kinda stinks, > IMO, > about only 2 buttons. > -Eric- Actually, Nintendo only ported Super Mario Brothers to the GBC. A few third parties have brough over former NES games but they're not all that important. A re-release of the original Zelda was rumoured for a long time, but Nintendo never released it. So, I think all these fantasies about playing SNES games on the GBA are just that, fantasies. If you want to play 16-bit games on a handheld, go get a nomad. That did Sega a lot of good. - -- Dexter S. Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine Http://www.tendobox.com - --------------E006FC6B5F9C1547209D2178 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I guess this is a good point as well.  We need to move on.  It's just that
with Nintendo making ports of their old NES games to GBC, one would guess
that GBA would get ports of SNES games.  I'd like to see that, but seeing a
32-bit Pokémon game would be even better. :)  It still kinda stinks, IMO,
about only 2 buttons.
-Eric-

Actually, Nintendo only ported Super Mario Brothers  to the GBC.  A few third parties have brough over former NES games but they're not all that important.  A re-release of the original Zelda was rumoured for a long time, but Nintendo never released it.

So, I think all these fantasies about playing SNES games on the GBA are just that, fantasies.  If you want to play 16-bit games on a handheld, go get a nomad. That did Sega a lot of good.

--
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com
  - --------------E006FC6B5F9C1547209D2178-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:14:52 -0800 From: Dexter Sy Subject: Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? - --------------2C14689C11E9D55327F7A0A4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > I guess this is a good point as well. We need to move on. It's just > that > with Nintendo making ports of their old NES games to GBC, one would > guess > that GBA would get ports of SNES games. I'd like to see that, but > seeing a > 32-bit Pokémon game would be even better. :) It still kinda stinks, > IMO, > about only 2 buttons. > -Eric- At least it support 4 player play :) Unlike that other high profile sequel to that other console :-P - -- Dexter S. Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine Http://www.tendobox.com - --------------2C14689C11E9D55327F7A0A4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

I guess this is a good point as well.  We need to move on.  It's just that
with Nintendo making ports of their old NES games to GBC, one would guess
that GBA would get ports of SNES games.  I'd like to see that, but seeing a
32-bit Pokémon game would be even better. :)  It still kinda stinks, IMO,
about only 2 buttons.
-Eric-

At least it support 4 player play :) Unlike that other high profile sequel to that other console :-P
 

--
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com
  - --------------2C14689C11E9D55327F7A0A4-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:06:30 -0600 From: Thraxen Subject: Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C0567B.F19F77E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At least it support 4 player play :) Unlike that other high profile = sequel to that other console :-P >>> -Dexter S.=20 Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine=20 Http://www.tendobox.com >>> See, it is the same sort of thing. Sony went with 2 controllers ports = whichmade zero sense. The same is true with 2 buttons on the GBA...no = sense. The only problem is that 2 controller ports can be fixed with a = multi-tap and people who truly have that many people over often and = desire to play 3 or more players can just buy one...you simply can't fix = 2 face buttons... Stryder =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C0567B.F19F77E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 
At least it support 4 player play :) Unlike that other high = profile=20 sequel to that other console :-P >>>
  -Dexter S. =
Tendo=20 Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com >>>
See, it is the same sort of = thing.  Sony=20 went with 2 controllers ports whichmade zero sense.  The same is = true=20 with 2 buttons on the GBA...no sense.  The only problem is that 2 = controller ports can be fixed with a multi-tap and people who truly = have that=20 many people over often and desire to play 3 or more players can just = buy=20 one...you simply can't fix 2 face buttons...
 
Stryder

 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C0567B.F19F77E0-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:07:05 EST From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? - --part1_2b.da06d3c.2750bf19_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 11/24/2000 10:57:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20 dextersy@home.com writes: > Actually, Nintendo only ported Super Mario Brothers to the GBC. A few=20 > third parties have brough over former NES games but they're not all that=20 > important. A re-release of the original Zelda was rumoured for a long=20 >=20 I guess so, but I think Stryder makes the better argument in this case. All= =20 systems are using more face buttons, so to not include them is still rather=20 puzzling. I think it could be a spectacular system, but, as of now, I'm kin= d=20 of skeptical about it. - -Eric- =E2=80=9CNanda kanda to kikare tara Kotaete ageru ga yo no nasake Sekai no hakai o fusegu tame Sekai no heiwa o mamoru tame Ai to shinjitu no aku o turanuku Lovely charmy na kataki yaku Musashi! Kojiro! Ginga o kakeru Rocket dan no futari niwa White hole, shiroi ashita ga matteruze Nya-nte na!=E2=80=9D - --part1_2b.da06d3c.2750bf19_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 11/24/2000 10:57:45 PM Pacific Stan= dard Time,
dextersy@home.com writes:


Actually, Nintendo only por= ted Super Mario Brothers  to the GBC.  A few
third parties hav= e brough over former NES games but they're not all that
important.  = ;A re-release of the original Zelda was rumoured for a long
time, but Ni= ntendo never released it.


I guess so, but I think Stryder makes the better argument in this case.=20=  All
systems are using more face buttons, so to not include them is= still rather
puzzling.  I think it could be a spectacular system,=20= but, as of now, I'm kind
of skeptical about it.
-Eric-

=E2=80=9CNanda kanda to kikare tara
Kotaete ageru ga yo no nasake
Sekai no hakai o fusegu tame
Sekai no heiwa o mamoru tame
Ai to shinjitu no aku o turanuku
Lovely charmy na kataki yaku
Musashi!
Kojiro!
Ginga o kakeru Rocket dan no futari niwa
White hole, shiroi ashita ga matteruze
Nya-nte na!=E2=80=9D

Rocket Dan- Pocket Monsters l - --part1_2b.da06d3c.2750bf19_boundary-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:31:47 -0800 From: Dexter Sy Subject: Re: [N64] More dough for Do-- get it? - --------------2E921C2BBE6053CCCC6EAFDE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > See, it is the same sort of thing. Sony went with 2 > controllers ports whichmade zero sense. The same is true > with 2 buttons on the GBA...no sense. The only problem is > that 2 controller ports can be fixed with a multi-tap and > people who truly have that many people over often and desire > to play 3 or more players can just buy one...you simply > can't fix 2 face buttons... > > #1. Multi-tap is not fixing the problem at all. You might as well sell to a blank market. It's not going to fly and publishers will continue to sell to the lowest common denominator #2. I've said time and again I reserve my judgement on this issue because you have to see the kind of games for the GBA and how they play. Sitting at home and thinking about why the GBA didn't have 2 extra buttons but had 2 shoulder buttons is really pointless. The parallel with PlayStation 2's dilema is superficial, because they are completely different paradigms. Nintendo actually puts a lot of thought into controller design, and they probably have good reason to keep it 2 face buttons plus 2 shoulder buttons. I can think of one reason now. To keep games simple enough for a portable machine. The shoulder buttons had to be included because its a natural evolution to controller design, more buttons however, isn't and I honestly don't see the GBA will suffer at all without those 2 buttons. Granted it's not desinged to play Doom, which the GBA wasn't expected to run anyways. - -- Dexter S. Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine Http://www.tendobox.com - --------------2E921C2BBE6053CCCC6EAFDE Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
See, it is the same sort of thing.  Sony went with 2 controllers ports whichmade zero sense.  The same is true with 2 buttons on the GBA...no sense.  The only problem is that 2 controller ports can be fixed with a multi-tap and people who truly have that many people over often and desire to play 3 or more players can just buy one...you simply can't fix 2 face buttons...
 


#1.  Multi-tap is not fixing the problem at all. You might as well sell to a blank market.  It's not going to fly and publishers will continue to sell to the lowest common denominator

#2.   I've said time and again I reserve my judgement on this issue because you have to see the kind of games for the GBA and how they play.  Sitting at home and thinking about why the GBA didn't have 2 extra buttons but had 2 shoulder buttons is really pointless.   The parallel with PlayStation 2's dilema is superficial, because they are completely different paradigms.

Nintendo actually puts a lot of thought into controller design, and they probably have good reason to keep it 2 face buttons plus 2 shoulder buttons.  I can think of one reason now.  To keep games simple enough for a portable machine.  The shoulder buttons had to be included because its a natural evolution to controller design, more buttons however, isn't and I honestly don't see the GBA will suffer at all without those 2 buttons.   Granted it's not desinged to play Doom, which the GBA wasn't expected to run anyways.
--
Dexter S.
Tendo Box - Nintendo e-zine
Http://www.tendobox.com
  - --------------2E921C2BBE6053CCCC6EAFDE-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ End of n64-digest V1 #1381 ************************** [ To quit the n64-digest mailing list (big mistake), send the message ] [ "unsubscribe n64-digest" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ]