From: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com (NGamers-digest) To: ngamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: NGamers-digest V1 #1528 Reply-To: NGamers-digest Sender: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk NGamers-digest Friday, May 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1528 [NG] E3 day two [NG] Sony online PS2 - You sure you want a truckload of games? Re: [NG] Sony online PS2 - You sure you want a truckload of games? Re: [NG] Words from E3 Re: [NG] too good to be true [NG] Phantasy Star Online Version 2 and other Gamecube business Re: [NG] must see video's Re: [NG] Sony online PS2 - You sure you want a truckload of games? Re: [NG] too good to be true ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:44:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lloyd Millard Mccoy Jr." Subject: [NG] E3 day two Any news of Mario Kart Cube? Is it safe to say that the journalists found all of the games on Day One. Are Days 2 and 3 basically just trying out all the games and demos or do companies release new information on those days? How On Fri, 18 May 2001, Vi On wrote: > > > Star Fox Adventures > > Eternal Darkness > > Wave Race: Blue Storm > > Luigi's Mansion > > Smash Bros: Melee > > > > Too good to be true? > > I think they can release those games at launch. imo smash bros > seems finish already. There's not much different to smash bros 2, besides > the graphics. It's still an AWESOME game, i don't want them to change > anything to the game! > > Definitely buying 3 extra controllers right away, > Anyone remember there was a shortage on N64 and N64 controllers during > the christmas season when n64 was first release? I was trying to get 4 > controllers for Mario Kart 64 and ended up buying generic brand ones > because original controllers of all colors were sold out. > > -Vi > > > [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] > [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] > sx [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:52:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lloyd Millard Mccoy Jr." Subject: [NG] Sony online PS2 - You sure you want a truckload of games? A year or two from now the PS2 might have over 50 games online. PS software generally does not sell very well(quite a few exceptions tho'), especially now that XBox and NGC are providing worthy competition. What does this mean for online gaming? If there are 50 different games(each sold under 70k), will it be difficult to find 3 players who want to go on a quest with you or play football? Time will tell. Online games who won't have that problem: Mario Kart FF XI Madden 03 Bomberman Tetris any NBA game Zelda online(oh please, pretty please!!) Chu Chu rocket Any others? On Fri, 18 May 2001, Dave Rhodes wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Fentie > To: vgames@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 2:02 AM > Subject: Re: [vgames] Sony online PS2 > > > Assuming there will be another person on this planet with the same game > on at modem and on at the same time.... I know there will be but it is > apparently 'dead' in the water. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > I'm sure there will be. I mean, for the Dreamcast, a presumably dead system, there's always somebody to frag in Unreal or somebody to team up with in PSO. > > ~~ Dave ~~ > > "Being poor really sucks arse." > Treytable@sega.net > AIM: Trey Table > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To unsubscribe email: vgames-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > sx To unsubscribe email: vgames-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:31:22 EDT From: LARGEEYES@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Sony online PS2 - You sure you want a truckload of games? - --part1_61.e436b13.2836b66a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The fact is, it's going to have to support 56k. THe number of households with broadband is too low to expect that to support online play. Plus, it will have to be cheap. Otherwise, those 3 people will be the only ones bothering to play period.... J. > A year or two from now the PS2 might have over 50 games online. PS > software generally does not sell very well(quite a few exceptions > tho'), especially now that XBox and NGC are providing worthy > competition. What does this mean for online gaming? If there are 50 > different games(each sold under 70k), will it be difficult to find 3 > players who want to go on a quest with you or play football? Time will > tell. > > Online games who won't have that problem: > > Mario Kart > FF XI > Madden 03 > Bomberman > Tetris > any NBA game > Zelda online(oh please, pretty please!!) > Chu Chu rocket > > Any others? > - --part1_61.e436b13.2836b66a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The fact is, it's going to have to support 56k.  THe number of households
with broadband is too low to expect that to support online play.  Plus, it
will have to be cheap.  Otherwise, those 3 people will be the only ones
bothering to play period....

J.


A year or two from now the PS2 might have over 50 games online.  PS
software generally does not sell very well(quite a few exceptions
tho'), especially now that XBox and NGC are providing worthy
competition.  What does this mean for online gaming?  If there are 50
different games(each sold under 70k), will it be difficult to find 3
players who want to go on a quest with you or play football?  Time will
tell.

Online games who won't have that problem:

Mario Kart
FF XI
Madden 03
Bomberman
Tetris
any NBA game
Zelda online(oh please, pretty please!!)
Chu Chu rocket

Any others?


- --part1_61.e436b13.2836b66a_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:07:14 EDT From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Words from E3 - --part1_b9.e524944.2836cce2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/18/2001 4:42:36 AM Central Daylight Time, Devil929@aol.com writes: > I haven't had time to really check my mail in some time, but I just wanted > to let you guys know one thing: the GameCube has absolutely stolen the > show. There is no question as to whom owned it this year as Nintendo's > booth is everything Sega's was last year's. The Xbox, in a word, > blows...even the controller which is far, far worse than the Dual Shock 2. > It's a horrendously bastardized copy of the Dreamcast's, but done wrong in > Jed put up this article he got from one of the websites he reads (this was on his list) that said MC's Xbox crashed during one of the demonstrations. Is that true, or just made up? I'm not sure how reliable the site is, but I don't like it. - -Eric- - --part1_b9.e524944.2836cce2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/18/2001 4:42:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
Devil929@aol.com writes:


I haven't had time to really check my mail in some time, but I just wanted
to let you guys know one thing: the GameCube has absolutely stolen the
show. There is no question as to whom owned it this year as Nintendo's
booth is everything Sega's was last year's. The Xbox, in a word,
blows...even the controller which is far, far worse than the Dual Shock 2.
It's a horrendously bastardized copy of the Dreamcast's, but done wrong in
every manner.


Jed put up this article he got from one of the websites he reads (this was on
his list) that said MC's Xbox crashed during one of the demonstrations.  Is
that true, or just made up?  I'm not sure how reliable the site is, but I
don't like it.
-Eric- - --part1_b9.e524944.2836cce2_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:11:34 EDT From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] too good to be true - --part1_2b.1589966e.2836cde6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/18/2001 8:34:35 AM Central Daylight Time, treytable@sega.net writes: > Seems we'll have to wait until Spaceworld in August. If anything can steal > the thunder from Rogue Squadron 2, it'd have to be new Super Mario game. Or > Resident Evil Zero. > > ~~ Dave ~~ > Yeah. Hey Dave, have you had any problems with your Dreamcast. I mean, I was playing RE CV and, when Alexia appeared at the countdown, the screen just went black and only the countdown was shown. Any thoughts? - -Eric- - --part1_2b.1589966e.2836cde6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/18/2001 8:34:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
treytable@sega.net writes:


Seems we'll have to wait until Spaceworld in August. If anything can steal
the thunder from Rogue Squadron 2, it'd have to be new Super Mario game. Or
Resident Evil Zero.

~~ Dave ~~


Yeah.  Hey Dave, have you had any problems with your Dreamcast.  I mean, I
was playing RE CV and, when Alexia appeared at the countdown, the screen just
went black and only the countdown was shown.  Any thoughts?
-Eric- - --part1_2b.1589966e.2836cde6_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:13:25 -0400 From: "Dave Rhodes" Subject: [NG] Phantasy Star Online Version 2 and other Gamecube business This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0DFAD.16153A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow, I just can't get over it. I was certain that SEGA's flagship = Gamecube title (strange, I'll capitalize "SEGA", but not "GAMECUBE") was = going to be a port of Sonic Adventure 2 or a port of Shenmue 2, but = bringing the semi sequel to PSO to the Gamecube, that's just = mind-blowing. It also could be an insult to Sony and Microsoft in a way. = Sure the Playstation 2 gets Virtua Fighter 4, which will please the VF = fans, but I'm not a big fan of its floatly physics (I only own Virtua = Fighter Remix and Virtua Fighter 2 for the Saturn for collectors = reasons, well, more likely that should only be for Vitrua Fighter Remix = since Virtua Fighter 2 came with my Saturn and the trade value is = worthless since it's a pack-in game) and really haven't played all that = much of VFR and VF2 because I feel them to be inferior to games like the = Street Fighter 2 series, Street Fighter Alpha series, the Street Fighter = 3 series, the Vs. and Marvel games, even the Street Fighter EX series, = the Dead or Alive games, Tekken 3, and the Soul series (Edge, Blade, and = Calibur). Heck, I'd rather play Super Smash Bros alone than dig out a = Virtua Fighter game. Also to Microsoft, sure they get a Panzer Dragoon = shooter and the sequel to Jet Set (Grind) Radio, which is no small thing = to me since I absolutely love Jet Grind Radio, but I digress... Back to Phantasy Star Online Version 2 on the Gamecube, it looks great. = Well, it looks just like the Dreamcast version actually, but I'm sure = the far distance pop-up will be eliminated on the Gamecube. But also the = four player split-screen offline looks like it'd be almost as fun as = playing four players single screen online like on the Dreamcast, but it = would be easier on the GC in one respect, no typing needed. And now I = have read that it may be able to do four player split-screen online, = damn, I wonder how big of a party you could have? That would be cool = even if it was limited to eight, taking on Dark Falz with a party of = eight, that would be major fun.=20 I wonder, does anybody know, will Gamecube players be able to play along = side of Dreamcast players online on PSO Ver. 2 on Gamecube? That would = be very cool. I have no intention of buying PSO Ver. 2 for Gamecube, I = want it now, and on or near July 12th it will be spinning in my = Dreamcast.=20 Also, does anybody know how much Nintendo is going to charge for the = Gamecube 56K modem, or will it come with the system? If Nintendo is = smart (meaning somebody gives Yamauchi a swift kick in the pants or = beats him at Go) they should have the 56K Modem standard issue with = every Gamecube. I mean if SEGA could afford it (or at least convince CSK = to allow it) then I'm sure Nintendo could do it as well. That would also = one-up Sony with their (Sony's) separate Network Adapter. Oh well, time = will tell.=20 Since there is PSO Ver. 2 for the Gamecube that makes it certain that = the modem for Gamecube isn't just Nintendo's wishful thinking, so if = it's not a part of the Gamecube package it better retail for a = reasonable price, but sadly I doubt that would happen if that was the = scenario, what with Nintendo's outrageous price for a mere 4 Megs of = RAM.=20 Now about modems in general. Sony has their Network Adapter coming out, = but also Interact (Datel) has a modem for the PS2 in the works, I wonder = if Interact's modem would be compatible with PlayStation 2 online games? = Now keeping this Nintendo related, does anybody know if Interact is = developing a modem for Gamecube? I know that Datel is probably working = on an Action Replay (Gameshark) for the Gamecube, Game Boy Advance, and = X-Box, I wonder if anybody knows any solid details about that? ~~ Dave ~~ =20 "Being poor really sucks arse." Treytable@sega.net AIM: Trey Table - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0DFAD.16153A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wow, I just can't get over it. I was = certain that=20 SEGA's flagship Gamecube title (strange, I'll capitalize "SEGA", but not = "GAMECUBE") was going to be a port of Sonic Adventure 2 or a port of = Shenmue 2,=20 but bringing the semi sequel to PSO to the Gamecube, that's just = mind-blowing.=20 It also could be an insult to Sony and Microsoft in a way. Sure the = Playstation=20 2 gets Virtua Fighter 4, which will please the VF fans, but I'm not a = big fan of=20 its floatly physics (I only own Virtua Fighter Remix and Virtua Fighter = 2 for=20 the Saturn for collectors reasons, well, more likely that should only be = for=20 Vitrua Fighter Remix since Virtua Fighter 2 came with my Saturn and the = trade=20 value is worthless since it's a pack-in game) and really haven't played = all that=20 much of VFR and VF2 because I feel them to be inferior to games like the = Street=20 Fighter 2 series, Street Fighter Alpha series, the Street Fighter 3 = series, the=20 Vs. and Marvel games, even the Street Fighter EX series, the Dead or = Alive=20 games, Tekken 3, and the Soul series (Edge, Blade, and Calibur). Heck, = I'd=20 rather play Super Smash Bros alone than dig out a Virtua Fighter game. = Also to=20 Microsoft, sure they get a Panzer Dragoon shooter and the sequel to Jet = Set=20 (Grind) Radio, which is no small thing to me since I absolutely love Jet = Grind=20 Radio, but I digress...
 
Back to Phantasy Star Online Version 2 = on the=20 Gamecube, it looks great. Well, it looks just like the Dreamcast version = actually, but I'm sure the far distance pop-up will be eliminated on the = Gamecube. But also the four player split-screen offline looks like it'd = be=20 almost as fun as playing four players single screen online like on the=20 Dreamcast, but it would be easier on the GC in one respect, no typing = needed.=20 And now I have read that it may be able to do four player split-screen = online,=20 damn, I wonder how big of a party you could have? That would be cool = even if it=20 was limited to eight, taking on Dark Falz with a party of eight, that = would be=20 major fun.
 
I wonder, does anybody know, will = Gamecube players=20 be able to play along side of Dreamcast players online on PSO Ver. 2 on=20 Gamecube? That would be very cool. I have no intention of buying PSO = Ver. 2 for=20 Gamecube, I want it now, and on or near July 12th it will be spinning in = my=20 Dreamcast.
 
Also, does anybody know how much = Nintendo is going=20 to charge for the Gamecube 56K modem, or will it come with the system? = If=20 Nintendo is smart (meaning somebody gives Yamauchi a swift kick in the = pants or=20 beats him at Go) they should have the 56K Modem standard issue with = every=20 Gamecube. I mean if SEGA could afford it (or at least convince CSK to = allow it)=20 then I'm sure Nintendo could do it as well. That would also one-up Sony = with=20 their (Sony's) separate Network Adapter. Oh well, time will tell. =
 
Since there is PSO Ver. 2 for the = Gamecube that=20 makes it certain that the modem for Gamecube isn't just Nintendo's = wishful=20 thinking, so if it's not a part of the Gamecube package it better retail = for a=20 reasonable price, but sadly I doubt that would happen if that was the = scenario,=20 what with Nintendo's outrageous price for a mere 4 Megs of RAM. =
 
Now about modems in general. Sony has = their Network=20 Adapter coming out, but also Interact (Datel) has a modem for the PS2 in = the=20 works, I wonder if Interact's modem would be compatible with PlayStation = 2=20 online games? Now keeping this Nintendo related, does anybody know if = Interact=20 is developing a modem for Gamecube? I know that Datel is probably = working on an=20 Action Replay (Gameshark) for the Gamecube, Game Boy Advance, and X-Box, = I=20 wonder if anybody knows any solid details about that?
 
~~ Dave ~~
    =
"Being poor=20 really sucks arse."
 Treytable@sega.net
 AIM: = Trey=20 Table
- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0DFAD.16153A00-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:14:20 EDT From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] must see video's - --part1_42.14e7989c.2836ce8c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/18/2001 10:16:28 AM Central Daylight Time, distorbanz@yucom.be writes: > the last eternal darkness video's; they are over 50MB so only if you have > cable or DSL, even then it gows VERY slow but it is worth it > dinosaur planet: only the latest (hi res), the first one isn't as good > > from e3.nintensity.com: > ravenblade this is the best one i saw and i can't believe it's on a > videogameconsole > > for the rest i can seriously reccomend the metroid prime teaser and SSB, > always check if it's a direct feed. > > NoNo's: wave race (all lo res, did anybody find hi res?) PSO, the nintendo > press release > > if you know more goods or nono's please let me know > > Steve > > Also e3.nintendo.com. They have a lot of good videos. - -Eric- - --part1_42.14e7989c.2836ce8c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/18/2001 10:16:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
distorbanz@yucom.be writes:


the last eternal darkness video's; they are over 50MB so only if you have
cable or DSL, even then it gows VERY slow but it is worth it
dinosaur planet: only the latest (hi res), the first one isn't as good

from e3.nintensity.com:
ravenblade this is the best one i saw and i can't believe it's on a
videogameconsole

for the rest i can seriously reccomend the metroid prime teaser and SSB,
always check if it's a direct feed.

NoNo's: wave race (all lo res, did anybody find hi res?) PSO, the nintendo
press release

if you know more goods or nono's please let me know

Steve



Also e3.nintendo.com.  They have a lot of good videos.
-Eric- - --part1_42.14e7989c.2836ce8c_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:20:03 -0400 From: "Dave Rhodes" Subject: Re: [NG] Sony online PS2 - You sure you want a truckload of games? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0DFAE.03554F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lloyd Millard Mccoy Jr.=20 To: NGamers@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: [NG] Sony online PS2 - You sure you want a truckload of = games?=20 A year or two from now the PS2 might have over 50 games online. PS software generally does not sell very well(quite a few exceptions tho'), especially now that XBox and NGC are providing worthy competition. What does this mean for online gaming? If there are 50 different games(each sold under 70k), will it be difficult to find 3 players who want to go on a quest with you or play football? Time = will tell. Online games who won't have that problem: Mario Kart FF XI Madden 03 Bomberman Tetris any NBA game Zelda online(oh please, pretty please!!) Chu Chu rocket Any others? - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- I'm going to have to put in Phantasy Star Online (Version 2). Any time, = day or night, there's always somebody to join up with. I like playing on = the Japanese servers and trying to communicate with the Japanese = players. I was on today and this one Japanese player kept shouting "G O = ! ! !". It was really strange. ~~ Dave ~~ =20 "Being poor really sucks arse." Treytable@sega.net AIM: Trey Table - ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0DFAE.03554F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lloyd Millard=20 Mccoy Jr.
To: NGamers@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 = 12:52 PM
Subject: [NG] Sony online PS2 - = You sure=20 you want a truckload of games?


A year or two from now the PS2 might have over 50 = games=20 online.  PS
software generally does not sell very well(quite a = few=20 exceptions
tho'), especially now that XBox and NGC are providing=20 worthy
competition.  What does this mean for online = gaming?  If=20 there are 50
different games(each sold under 70k), will it be = difficult to=20 find 3
players who want to go on a quest with you or play = football? =20 Time will
tell.

Online games who won't have that=20 problem:

Mario Kart
FF XI
Madden = 03
Bomberman
Tetris
any=20 NBA game
Zelda online(oh please, pretty please!!)
Chu Chu=20 rocket

Any others?

 
I'm going to have to put in Phantasy = Star Online=20 (Version 2). Any time, day or night, there's always somebody to join up = with. I=20 like playing on the Japanese servers and trying to communicate with the = Japanese=20 players. I was on today and this one Japanese player kept shouting "G O = ! ! !".=20 It was really strange.
 
~~ Dave ~~
    =
"Being poor=20 really sucks arse."
 Treytable@sega.net
 AIM: = Trey=20 Table
- ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C0DFAE.03554F80-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:36:56 EDT From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] too good to be true - --part1_db.149e1aa9.2836d3d8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/18/2001 8:03:46 AM Central Daylight Time, treytable@sega.net writes: > No. But when you put Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron 2 in the mix, then it's > too good to be true. > > ~~ Dave ~~ > Update on this. I found this bit of info from IGN (if you didn't see it already). It was a feature on games that didn't show at E3. When they refered to Thornado, they said that Factor 5 is concentrated on getting Rogue Leader for the system debut. They said the same about Eternal Darkness for Silicon Knights. Man, this will be sweet. - -Eric- - --part1_db.149e1aa9.2836d3d8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/18/2001 8:03:46 AM Central Daylight Time,
treytable@sega.net writes:


No. But when you put Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron 2 in the mix, then it's
too good to be true.

~~ Dave ~~


Update on this.  I found this bit of info from IGN (if you didn't see it
already).  It was a feature on games that didn't show at E3.  When they
refered to Thornado, they said that Factor 5 is concentrated on getting Rogue
Leader for the system debut.  They said the same about Eternal Darkness for
Silicon Knights.  Man, this will be sweet.
-Eric- - --part1_db.149e1aa9.2836d3d8_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ End of NGamers-digest V1 #1528 ****************************** [ To quit the NGamers-digest mailing list (big mistake), send the message ] [ "unsubscribe NGamers-digest" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ]