From: owner-orbital-digest@lists.xmission.com (orbital-digest) To: orbital-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: orbital-digest V2 #219 Reply-To: orbital-digest Sender: owner-orbital-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-orbital-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-NoArchive: yes orbital-digest Thursday, July 8 1999 Volume 02 : Number 219 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:30:35 -0500 From: Chris Kloehr Subject: RE: (orbital) Moby/Orbital From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper [mailto:sineswiper@resonatorsoft.com] Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 10:24 AM To: Chris Kloehr > I am into all of the albums, but the ones that get the most play are the Brown album and Insides. Favorite songs: Probably TGwTSihH and Halcyon&on&on. And yes I do love the first album, but sometimes you are in the mood to chill and sometimes dance. Just like sometimes you are into Natalie Imbruglia and sometimes Rob Satan Zombie..... Heh...not what I expected, but those are personal favorites though. (Both are my favorite songs per album.) What about the new album? Chris Kloehr wrote: well - honestly my favorites are probably the ones that most people on this list dislike (from what I have heard). They are: Know Where to Run, I dont know you people, and Ontono. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:33:30 -0600 From: Chris Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: Moby vs. anything else >(Because you obviously do not like rock of any sort, if you don't >like Jimi Hendrix.) > out of all the stupid generalizations you have made, this one most likely tops them all..you need to learn to be quiet when necessary. and relating to the moby discussion: you say it seems all that moby does is sample other people's music and put it together...that's bullshit. if you want some prime examples of that, look at the chem bros. (which by the way i love immensely). and by the way, moby has much more talent as far as musicianship is concerned...the chem bros can't actually play any conventional instruments, whereas moby can play just about anything as evident on his genre-spanning albums. Chris Perkins It's nice to be important, cdperk@trib.com but it's more important to be nice. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:37:13 +0000 From: Optik@mail.freenet.uk.com Subject: (orbital) Dr Who MP3 Anyone got 'Dr Who' MP3, from Glastonbury? Or know of a FTP,WWW site. Thanks # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:36:38 PDT From: Robert Schultz Subject: Re: (orbital) Dr Who MP3 Damn dude! I've been wondering the same thing now for months! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:54:03 -0400 From: "Dr. Funkenstein" Subject: (orbital) JS 06... I just picked up "This is Jungle Sky Vol. 6" today...it just came out on the 6th I believe. It is OFF THE HOOK, I strongly reomend it! It's got some wierd stuff on it...phat funky jungle, hiphop influence, etc...and I haven't even heard the second CD yet. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ funkenstein@mail.rit.edu http://www.rit.edu/~dco2393 Superfly, you're gonna make your fortune by and by But if you lose don't ask no questions why The only game you know is do or die...Superfly # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:12:21 -0400 From: Steven Roussos Subject: (orbital) Chicago comments / Moby / Moontribe Drove from Cincinnati to Chicago for the show at the Congress. Some randomly meandering comments: Venue: Wow. Ancient crumbling intricately detailed old theatre. Perfect, except for the stifling heat. The huge domed ceiling made the most amazing perfect screen for Orbitals visuals. Looking up while projections mingled in the smoky haze slowly rising from the crowd and hit the back of the dome was quite beautiful at times, especially given my fungally enhanced visual apparatus at the time ;-) Crowd: Due to LoFiAllstars (who I missed) and Crystal Method pretty rough and rock-oriented, but didn't notice any explicit rudeness or violence. Remarkably well-behaved for such a large crowd (1500?). Crystal Method: Well, they're kinda fun on CD in a real basic techno 101 kind of way. Not very sophisticated music; lots of energy. I'm of two minds about their show. On one hand, I found it pretty annoying...high speed screeching and 303 squelchy riffs over and over and over...incredibly bright strobes and spots shining straight into the audience's eyes the entire time. Kind of psychedelic in that very basic way, but the point is??? On the other hand, simple basic sensory overload IS a time-honored way of obliterating the personality and inducing an altered state. But I doubt CM thought of it that way...I think they're just into the "Lets BLAST the kids a heavily as we can...yeah..cool...huh huh huh". Way WAY overdone...quite insane, really...so sort of fun in that "I can't BELIEVE they're actually THIS over the top" sort of way. But really...ZERO ideas or content. Just sensory overload, and that's it. NO other ideas or purpose. Very empty and meaningless. But they seem like nice guys, and I respect them for saying that they felt "Very honored to be here". They knew that this show with this size crowd in this venue would be something alot of people will remember and talk about for a long time to come. I did feel the crowd was noticibly on-edge and paranoid after this. And in a way, that might be what Orbital was going for. That way, the beauty and sophistication of their music would seem all the more intense by contrast. Orbital: Ahhhh. Bliss. Smooth. Ecstatic. Thoughtful detailed imagery. Touching emotional tunes. I wish there had been more of an arresting visual concept during the beginning of Way Out, that track starts in such a unique and dramatic way. But still nice. Does anyone recall what song used the intially simple but increasing more psychedelic images of clocks? And what in the world WAS that tumbling spindle-shaped thingy....very wild looking whatever it was. Kudos to their graphics designers. Anyone know who they are? Does Orbital collaborate and provide ideas, or do they just contract it out? The look of the spiral projections curling through the haze...wow...follow them back...multicolored spirals all over the intricately detailed dome of the theatre 75 feet overhead. What a sight! One interesting thought I had during the show. It was fascinating to observe the change in crowd attitude from the parinoid on-edge vibe after CM finished, to the happy group love-dance vibe at the end of Orbital. The turning point came during a song that I did not understand on CD very well where they were coming from, but after the live show I do: "I Don't Know You People." I believe they were motivated to use these words due to playing at larger venues and starting to see more and more hooligan-like behaviour, more rough, tense people who are not really into them, just into the wildness of big shows, etc. When the words "I dont know you people. WHY ARE YOU HERE??? WHAT DO YOU WANT???" happen...alot of people seemed to take these questions personally and loosen up ALOT. This dispelled once and for all the tension that CM had (perhaps deliberately) generated with their sensory overload experiments. "Facinating, Captain." Finally, the way that Dr. Who begins...sneaking up on you so that you don't know that is what is coming is...pure genius. I certainly hope they release this track on CD. Overall, an experience I will not soon forget. Go see them if you possibly can. (Just one bit of advice...wait until after Crystal Method - or towards the end of their set - to do any indulging that you plan on doing ;-) Congrats to Orbital on a stunning achievement. Can I possibly afford to fly to SanFranciso to see them again? I'm certainly going to try. MOBY: did not used to care for him. Then I got PLAY. Overall very nice. But the 5 songs that are based on the old negro spiritual field recordings...wow. Try this...play tracks 1, 2, 4, 8, and 11 in a row. Try to sit still. Try not to have chills run down your spine. For these 5 songs alone Moby should be praised extensively. Techno Soul music for the new millenium. Moby can clearly be a genius with the right inspiration. Get it. One other recommendation while I'm here: Moontribe - Sound without Walls. The best "perfect moments" from 5 years of Southern Calif. desert full-moon raves. Very EXCELLENT and spiritual compilation. Search on the web, look at listing on amazon.com for more reviews. Very very sweet. ...Steve - still smiling. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:22:41 -0700 From: Matthew Ford Subject: Re: (orbital) JS 06... I must agree. I got a promo of this recently. Its the fucking shit...and just think about 3 years ago or so you would've never thought that the US jungle scene would have gotten this far. Or at least I was unsure of this. Jungle Sky is a badass label. .matthewford. "Dr. Funkenstein" wrote: > I just picked up "This is Jungle Sky Vol. 6" today...it just came out on > the 6th I believe. It is OFF THE HOOK, I strongly reomend it! It's got > some wierd stuff on it...phat funky jungle, hiphop influence, etc...and I > haven't even heard the second CD yet. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:46:49 -0400 From: "Shannon K. Campbell" Subject: (orbital) MOBY Coast to Coast Hey did anyone see Moby on SpaceGhostCoastToCoast [TurnerTV] about a month ago. He was hilarious very, Low-key and SpaceGhost just kept sort of getting distracted and then coming back at him with bullshit about nothing at all. MOBY played along well and has my respect, personally and musically. Sometimes I even listen to his discs! :) Shannon # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:38:05 -0500 From: "timmins" Subject: (orbital) Chicago on MD Well, within an hour or so I already have 10 requests so I guess I will be= making some format of the concert. The concert lasts more than 74 minutes so I am going to figure out how to = fit it on a CD, or fill up the second CD. Ideas, comments, complaints, whatever let me know. I thoroughly enjoy this list (yes, I am a lurker) and would like to make e= very enjoy what I can bring to the table. For right now, I am going to gather up as many requests as I can, find a b= ulk rate and then figure out the specs for the recording. But, dont worry,= you will have your copies. Btw, did anyone see a guy with a camelflouge full brim cap sitting in fron= t of the sound board? timmins # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:50:01 -0500 From: "Margaret Hadam" Subject: Re: (orbital) A Little Points On Particular Things Aphextwin is one of the most phenomenal rephlex artists outthere...his sound is original, moving and quite enjoyable. I have to say my two favorite aphex twin cds are analogue bubblebath and his new one, window licker...richard is also great live, and with a tendency to moon his audience... i prefer richard and his 'bands' to orbital, or any other 'electronic' artist.... and how is richard 'uninteresting'? >>> Matthew Ford 07/08 12:12 PM >>> Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > Matter of opinion. I could say that Aphex Twin and all of the other little > minimalism acts suck balls because they are boring and uninteresting...but I > won't because it's just my opinion. > What, have you only heard one Aphex Twin album? Hardly a minimalist across the board. > Techno = rave. Quit trying to call it something else. > Do you happen to work for Rolling Stone or Spin Magazine or something? Granted you are over 16 of course. > Hey look! It's another anti-bigbeat guy! I guess these intolerant guys come > a-dime-a-dozen. > When did I say I was antibigbeat? I LIKED bigbeat but its just gotten really tired and boring-like trance. > I hope you're not implying anything... > Im implying many things > 30 bucks? You're obviously going to the wrong raves. The commericialistic ones > may be your only jumping to the better raves, but those aren't the only ones. > The best raves are the 10 buck ones with fairly good DJs and friendly people. > (Unless we're talking about the professional acts like CST.) > No, Im not going to the wrong raves. The only time I ever step foot into a rave is when theres someone that I like thats going to be playing. I refuse to believe the "go to the rave for the vibe, not the music" crap that so many candykids shout everytime I tell them Im not going to a rave cause I dont wanna be around them and their crap music. > "with the exception of Ambient"...I guess we have another minimalist here. Do > all minimalists hate bigbeat and vise-versa, or is it just me? I dunno about > you, but I went to electronica music because I wanted something complex and full > of different sounds (unlike today's alternative/rap/R&B scene). > > Its just you. You obviously dont know what youre talking about. If you went into electronic music because you wanted something complex, then why do you keep knocking ambient and minimal music? > I just listened to it again, and it's better than I thought, but it's so > outdated now. I reserve the phrase "kicks ass" for better albums like MoN and > Sniv. > > Big beat is outdated now as well. > Damn, you're an arrogant asshole. I'm glad I joined this mailing list. It > definately needs some conflicting opinions to balance out all of this > anti-bigbeat attitude. > Thanks mate. I guess you cant take a joke either. This list has an antibigbeat attitude? Youve been here for what a week or so and youve already summed this list up ? Get a life. > What's PLUR? (No dots...modern English rule.) > Never heard of an acronym eh? i know im wasting my breath by responding...but cant help it. .matthewford. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:15:44 -0500 From: Merrick Schaefer Subject: (orbital) a different take on it all This is a long post that could be titled: the historicity of music and linguistic basis for categories of music or maybe we can make something constructive out of the inane postings of the last few days You choose. Recently there have seem to been some "experts" arguing over which music is good and what sucks. That's fine but gets annoying after awhile when it becomes evident that they are reiterating the same SUBJECTIVE points again and again. They apparently have no objective framework in which to judge the music which they are talking about. In other words they cannot say very much about why one is good and another bad. Now I am no expert, but I have been a dj who spins electronic music for the last three years and have been involved in a number of electronic experimental projects. I do live in a large city and have access to many resources which those in more rural areas don't but with careful searching the majority of information about music can be found on the internet and through mixtapes. The last few days I have been scanning most of the posts and ignoring many of them. I have no interest in entering the debate as it is. I do have some objective points to make about music. One of the "experts" in particular seems to pointing out that he knows what is good and what isn't and at the same time has a very limited knowledge of the music and the scenes associated with it. Here are two categories which one can use to objectively judge music; it's history and how it was created. It has been said that "rock and other contemporary music(compared to folk music) doesn't have and tradition except change. To mutate like a virus.(Sontag ,157) " In a sense it is very hard to understand what artists are trying to convey unless you know both what they are inspired by and reacting to. This is one of the reasons why people revere Kraftwerk. There would not be modern electronic music without Kraftwerk. And of course Kraftwerk would not likely have existed without classical experimentation by the likes of John Cage and the Columbia school of music. Learn about the history of the music you are interested in. Then you can tell whether a band is just doing what somebody else has done or whether they are being creative and innovative. Let me give an example of how this can be applied to a debate similar to our own. Lets say I get in an argument with someone who says rage against the machine in industrial music(true story). Fact one: rage against the machine brags that it uses no electronic instruments or samples in its music(though technically they are using electric guitars and such) Fact two: industrial music was started in the mid seventies by such innovators as Throbbing Gristle and Nurse with Wound who were experimenting with making music that was created completely with samples and cut up tapes. often from literally industrial sources. now industrial music has changed a lot in 25 years but saying that it no longer uses electronic instruments would be like saying you can have rock without the guitar bass and drums. so it seems that it would be very difficult to categorize RAM as industrial. Understanding how the music is made gives the listener a deeper understanding of it and a greater ability to judge whether something has merit or not. One could argue that while the crystal method have a great groove and are fun they are not very complex or innovative. this is different from saying they suck or rule. judging from posts I have a feeling many people on this list find such simple music annoying. orbital's green and brown albums were about innovation. they were at the forefront of their scene and many have imitated them pitifully. Moby was at the forefront of his scene as well. It is not wise to dis the people responsible for the music you like, even if you do not care for their music. These categories of music from generic rock/electronic distinctions to specific techstep/darkside distinctions arose out of the historical development of the music. And they serve as symbolic placeholders of individual concepts used in communication. Now you call any music that is electronic techno if you want but don't try to communicate with others if you do so. You don't need to know every distinction, but lurk on the list or ask questions until you are familiar with the commonly used ones. Once you have learned the local lingo, then talk. jungle and house sound very very different. it would not make sense to me to lump them together. Getting breakbeats(a type of beat) and bigbeat(a category of music) confused is a faux pa. Dissing hip hop or even country is a sign of ignorance. But commenting that almost all pop music of any variety(rap, country, techno whatever) by it's very nature is vacuous is not so far from the truth. When it comes down do it I am asking you to respect the music you listen to. Learn about it. Don't judge the world with gut reactions. THINK. Now you can return to your discussion and try to say something constructive or continue another asinine little debate about who sucks and rules on our list. Thanks for reading this if you did, and I am open to any intelligent commentary or critiques. merrick # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:26:52 -0500 From: Chris Kloehr Subject: RE: (orbital) a different take on it all >Now you can return to your discussion and try to say something constructive >or continue another asinine little debate about who sucks and rules on our >list. >Thanks for reading this if you did, and I am open to any intelligent >commentary or critiques. Merrick - You Suck! Just kidding......Said Perfectly My Friend!!!!!!! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:37:55 +0100 From: "Price, Steve A" Subject: (orbital) Schematix / Schizoid Man >Does anyone know if Phil Holmberg has any albums out? I remember there being >realaudio samples on the Loopz site a while back, but I haven't heard >anything about him since(except for that fabulous remix of nothing left as >Schizoid man!!!!) I really like that remix, and I wonder if he has other >material. Steve, do you know anything about this? Thanks! No album as yet and he is unsigned once more. The last time i spoke to him was at Glastonbury and he said that he was busy working on a track that utilizes one instrument (yes...he took the idea from Style). Not many people know that Phil Holmburg played a part in the making of The Girl With The Sun In Her Head and Out There Somewhere. It was something that he was meant to be credited on the In Sides album but never made it. If you check The Middle of Nowhere you will see the credit in very small print. Also...i will be putting the Schematix pages back up at some point. The web address will be www.loopz.co.uk/Schematix (nothing there yet). Thanx Steve LOOPZ Price ORBITAL ZINE www.loopz.co.uk www.megadog.net # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:40:22 -0500 From: "timmins" Subject: Re: (orbital) Chicago on MD You know I would Ryan. I would love to, I am sure someone who gets a CD fr= om me will convert it and distro the mp3's. But I bought a MiniDisc player, I bought great microphones for headphone p= erfect quality and I also risked the frisk when I went into the concert. T= he saying "the best things in life are free" never tried recording a conce= rt. Also, not everyone has a connection like mine, dual t3's, and could downlo= ad and hour and a half of mp3's. No biggie, I would prefer the hassle. timmins p.s. I will include you on the list of people interested. > Hello there, > I am interested in the Orbital recording as well. > How about mp3ing it and making it available for download > on your website. Then those of us with burners could > put it to CD if we wanted (along with whatever we wanted > extra on disc 2) and those that don't could just keep it > in mp3 to listen to. That would save us all the hassle > of mailing cds around and such. Just a suggestion. > Thanks, > ||| ryan ||| > _____ > visit Ryno's adidas page > http://www.iastate.edu/~kicks/adidas.htm # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:59:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Ben Subject: (orbital) a comment or sixteen... oh my god. i was gone for two days. i get back and there's 6 digests waiting for me. there should have only been two. the cause? i believe his name is "brendan." not that there's a problem with that, but jeez... here's a piece of advice: people on this list will respect your opinion a lot more if you keep those messages a little on the shorter side. or if they have to be long (like mine, for instance) then don't respond to every damn message! state your point, make your argument, etc, but don't argue just for the sake of it! i personally agree with whoever said that, for them, this list is more of an electronic-music-in-general list, as opposed to just an orbital list. what i mean is that i don't care what the subject is, but this bickering is obnoxious... on that note, i would like to bicker about some of the things that have been said. first of all brendan, you listen to mu-ziq, but you consider aphex twin to be minimal? what? hello? where am i? i seem to have been spontaneously transported into a parallel dimension in which logic has no formal bounds... almost any IDM fan would put mike p (mu-ziq) and rdj (aphex) in the same category - they are relentlessly compared to each other in nearly all the literature i've ever seen on them. so to call rdj "minimal" - i don't even have a response to that. except for maybe "have you ever heard anything by aphex twin? are you sure?" rdj is, in my opinion, uncategorizable. lately he has done a lot of drill n bass stuff, (like mike p) but seems to be moving out of it, and into... god, i don't know. what does windowlicker sound like? something like nothing i've ever heard before. and he used to do ambient. REAL ambient stuff, like SAW II. maybe that's where you're getting this "minimal" moniker. which would make sense i guess, cuz that's probably his most commercially available album. but for christ's sake, if you've ever heard SAW I or the come to daddy ep or just about anything else by him, you would never think to call him minimal. he's created some of the most complex sounds in all of electronic music. sometimes it's not pretty, but it's still complicated as hell. similar to autechre in that respect (you've gotta admit that the new ae stuff is anything but melodic - but amazing cuz it would be so bloody hard to create!) i'm saying all this, and i'm not even that big of an rdj fan. i find some of his stuff to be ear-bleedingly terrible. ventolin makes me want to run screaming from the room. okay, what else? i like fatboy slim. but i don't think it's very good musically - i recently bought the new album sheerly cuz i thought it would be fun party/dance music. and it is, in my opinion. but when i actually listen to it, i am appalled at how formulaic he is. i mean, how many times can you use the same buildup on an album? i would also like to point out, on the topic of instrumentation, that f.s. and the chems and most of the US-commercial-friendly stuff around these days rely mostly on samples, as opposed to actually creating their own electronic noises. f.s. is especially fond of vocal samples. both he and the chems like to use guitar/fuzzbass blues/funk loops. but i think there's something to be said for bands like orbital that form their sonic environments from the ground up. not to say that orbital never use samples, that's ridiculous, but their synthloops and such are purely their own. i think what's great about electronic music is how technology has allowed artists almost unlimited power to create any sound they want to - bands like autechre take full advantage of this. for me, however, there is a flipside to electronic music: dancing. my favorite electronic artists are those like orbital that combine dance music with sound experimentation. i'm sure there are many who agree with me on this. this is also why i like brown the best - it's great dance music. but then sometimes i just like some brainless trance or pounding jungle - nothing over 170 bpms though, please. :) one (almost) final word, to brendan and others: please do not put the entire population of the list in any category based on two or three days of list messages. also, make a particular note (brendan) that most of the list traffic since you've been here has been a direct result of YOU, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the entire list. bigbeat-haters, moby-lovers, etc, all that is just fucking ridiculous. we all like orbital, that's the only thing that matters. unless of course you like the crystal method, in which case you are the spawn of satan. :) oh, and you will learn quickly, if you haven't already, that categorizing electronic music is almost as sketchy as categorizing the people that listen to it - please stop, especially since you don't really know what you're talking about. i'm not saying i know what I'M talking about, but i do know that there are a lot of people on this list that know a hell of a lot more than you or me, and classifying such-and-such as tech-step rather than hard-step is just annoying to them, and everyone else. you'll figure out the genres yourself as you go along. i know what i consider to be jungle as opposed to dnb (usually the latter is deemed the more broad category under which the former falls) and that's all that's important. damn, i'm not usually this preachy. it's just that all these damn digests have fried my brain - i haven't done anything since i got to work 3 hours ago! yeah, so no flame intended, just friendly (??) advice. take care, nub # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:09:47 -0400 From: "Dr. Funkenstein" Subject: Re: (orbital) a comment or sixteen... >okay, what else? i like fatboy slim. but i don't think it's very good [snip] >listen to it, i am appalled at how formulaic he is. i mean, how many times >can you use the same buildup on an album? Yes! That's a good distinction to make. I think that it's important for both sides of a "this band sucks" This band is good" to look at this. I like a lot of music that I would assert takes quite a bit of talent to make. However, I also like some music that's pretty simple, just because it sounds good. Personally, I think Fatboy Slim sucks, and I can't stand listening to him. I have a very hard time finding anything about his music to respect. However, if someone tells me "I know he's not the greatest musician, I just like the way his music sounds"...I can respect that. Good comment. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ funkenstein@mail.rit.edu http://www.rit.edu/~dco2393 Superfly, you're gonna make your fortune by and by But if you lose don't ask no questions why The only game you know is do or die...Superfly # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:33:01 -0400 From: "Dr. Funkenstein" Subject: Re: (orbital) a different take on it all >But commenting that almost all pop music of any variety(rap, >country, techno whatever) by it's very nature is vacuous is not so far from >the truth. You were on a roll there for awhile, but how can you possibly say that pop music "by it's very nature" is vacuous? That is a ridiculous statement. Music that is written for the sole purpose of being popular is often (not always by any means, but often) bad music. However, good music does become (and stay) popular. Example: Tom Waits new album has found a vogue among the college crowd. Tom Waits is well respected and the vast majority of his fans will fight to the death to prove his incredible lyrical, musical, and rhythmical genius. Now, does the fact that his album is becoming popular have any effect on the music? Not at all, the fact that a lot of people are buying it doesn't change the quality of the music on the album. Another example: Tom Petty. I would venture to say that Tom Petty is reasonably popular, and that most people would say that he makes "quality" music. However, Tom Petty has said in interviews that a big part of being a rock musician is to sell records...i.e. he wants his music to be popular and accepted. Has that changed the quality of records he has been putting out? Not at all. Has that affected his ability to "dare to be original"? Not at all...his new album is a pretty daring step back towards the music he made in the late 70's / early 80's. Sometimes music being popular demonstrates more than 50,000 teenage girls screaming at Ricki Martin, or people liking the spice girls because they "are so hot". Sometimes it means that the band has done a good job of relating to it's intended audience. Example (last one) Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam, despite moving to the back burner a bit, is still very popular. The reason is because they make quality music that really speaks to teenagers / young adults / and even the occaisional older person. They talk about feeling things that people can listen to and say "I can relate to that"...they even express things that people are feeling better than the people can express them themselves. In the process, they make some pretty interesting instrumental sounds if you listen closely. While I agree that a LOT of pop music is very vacuous, boring, and worthless, it's far too general to say, "by it's very nature is vacuous is not so far from the truth." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ funkenstein@mail.rit.edu http://www.rit.edu/~dco2393 Superfly, you're gonna make your fortune by and by But if you lose don't ask no questions why The only game you know is do or die...Superfly # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:20:49 -0400 From: "Shannon K. Campbell" Subject: (orbital) The LAST WORD on Chicago! [4 days later, and Shannon says ...] CHICAGO RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOCCCCKKKKEDDD! {THE ultimate LIVE compliment} GO to ANY show you can beg borrow or steal to get to Do not ask permission. Dont think about it. Yo Jus' Go Just ask Brendon or Mehul or Brandon or Reece or Magie etc. I had no idea how many of us made it there. WOW! I had ex-roomate come in from Indiana and he was blown away as well. Brandon somehow i missed your post on the Tuesday before or I would have mailed you. Thanks for the setlist! RE: Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:30:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Brandon Invergo I thouht I heard 'Impact's theme come in 3 times in all that mixing. I think I saw you there actually [Red-blonde curly Hair and glasses?] I saw somebody in a Red squiggle shirt too. Public Sorrys to Mehul also: I tried, but we should've picked better spot. Next time I'll meet ya at the front of the BUS! HOTlanta, maybe? Only 4hrs there this time! [Just bought Tix for Tabernacle show. NO SEATS xcpt balcony!] I really enjoyed the recent banter and reviews. [WARNING: IMHO-Time!] For those who DO like tha sexy melodies of TheCM, they played their asses off! The were SONICALLY HUGE and really TIGHT and improv-ed in and out of their beats with steely precision. The did not play any stuff with chik vocals like 'Comin' Back' which are actually some of my favs. I guess they didn't wanna play taped stuff. I thought they were BIG and was totally wowed by the sheer power of their sound. Took me back to WZombie's Astrocreep2000 in '97 or MINISTRY in'92. I like it big and heavy too. The strobes were very huge, being big bank arrays of grilled spots that would alternate various elaborate patterns. ?Anyone have a seizure? :o They were a bit intense and I was the 'cool-one' wearing my sunglasses thru the entire CM set [Mehul is prob glad I WASN't with him 8^)] {Mehul, I think I was standing right in front of you guys (from your descripton earlier) at the back of the floor! FRAAK! I'll skip too much haggling over Lo-Fi except to say that I was a lot more impressed seeing them live thatn I had been hearing the disc. They reall got people up and jumping. I was in the balcony at the beginning to get the overview. There was NO moshing and definitely No Pit [IDM-andrew was n crak] The lead guy worked really hard with the crowd. THe full drum-kit and 2 synths worked hard too. It was GREAT if you're spectrum reaches into hi-energy R&R. Reminded me of RageATM. And I do think all of US owe TheCM some gratitude for choosing Orbital as their INAUGURAL headliners. Even if ya don't like TheCM's tunz, at least you can't argue with their choice for touring mates. This is their gig after-all. Had they chosen ANYBODY else, this list would be dead for the summer of '99. Thanks to TheCM. Orbital are just the whole other side of this universe. I know that when I first got MoN, I didn't get into 1&2 'WayOUt & Spare Parts' as much as the rest of it. These are now my favorites and were amaxing to hear LIVE. The romance of the Spanish sounding trumpets took on expandsive proportions live and loud. If you ever drive down I-75 thru KnoXville and hear them in the air, look over at the old freak in the van next to you and wave Hey Shannon! Given the diversity of this techno university called CST, I can see that P&P wanna give back some classics while doing their new stuff. I was SO glad to hear Halcyon live after P&P saying a few years ago that they were tired of playing it. I thought I had really missed the boat! SATAN! SATAN! SATAN! [wasn't that fun!? ;)] I'm still VERY glad they played it for MY first Orbital show. I think they psychicly knew that I was coming and said OK we'll do it once more for the newbie slacker. It rocked. And for me made a connection with days ago when I was listening to the Butthole Surfers [from whom the opening SATAN dialogue IS sampled] and heard about these NEW guys from England. I played the shit out the Orbital One, and to whoever said a few days ago that it was 'a first album, nothing special' all I can say is that THIS disc was SEMINAL and in my mind started RAVE in the U$A. 'Belfast is my personal fav from Green, but when they played 'Dr.Who' and 'Chime', I was transported into the time-space continuum. >For Real> [CONFESSON: Actually at that moment i didn't even recognize Dr.Who theme, until my wife who has never heard Orbital's version goes "It's Dr.Who"! I used to watch the show all the time, and then was even trying to remember the title for 'Chime', thinking it was from 'Sviv' or 'Brown'.] The whole Orbital set was just the best time i ever had.[And I HAVE had some times] I wished for TGWSIHH and a lot of others, but was transformed by what P&P gave us. And I could tell P&P were really getting off on it too. Phil looked like he was focusing harder, while Paul waved his hands at crowd in response to everyone's joy, but even Phil got into there at he end dancing with his brother and you could just feel how much fun they were having! I'm in awe and gotta git another HIT! Plus I didn't see the cow! I'll see whoever in Atlanta. Email and we'll try to hook up. Gotta giit! ShannON +ON +ON ______________ s. k. campbell _____________________ UT.Med.Ctr.@Knoxville The Image Processing Lab ph.423.544.9693 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ End of orbital-digest V2 #219 *****************************