From: owner-orbital-digest@lists.xmission.com (orbital-digest) To: orbital-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: orbital-digest V2 #352 Reply-To: orbital-digest Sender: owner-orbital-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-orbital-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-NoArchive: yes orbital-digest Thursday, July 27 2000 Volume 02 : Number 352 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:13:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Shaun Rader Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again - --- Brandon wrote: > > access their servers without using their program. I still use > napster, but only because I am looking for a song that I can't find > on gnutella "due to not enough napster users going over to gnu. > What's everyone's opinion on this, or have I really been out of the > loop, and everyone know this already. I just read that same thing today about Napster not being nice to outside developers and such. I read that very soon after the Offspring started pirating their shirts there was a deal made that gave all profits to charity. Anyway I'm more interested in you finding rare songs on gnutella! Are there songs out there because I end up searching every single Napster server for things like rare Eat Static and Salt Tank but can't find it that often. If gnutella actually had rare stuff I'd be searching on there too but I checked one time and they didn't even have ONE Eat Static song! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:04:36 -0400 From: James Brostek Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again > I just read that same thing today about Napster not being nice to > outside developers and such. I read that very soon after the Offspring > started pirating their shirts there was a deal made that gave all > profits to charity. Again, pay vs not paying. Lets think about this on their development side Why would others want to make napster clones? To get recognition, to get "props", or to learn how their backend software works to reproduce it under their own name? When you write proprietary code, it does not mean you have to charge for it. But it does mean that it is not open source and therefore the word proprietary. Did AOL like when microsoft made a AIM windows clone? Would poeplesoft be kind to a company that produced a cloned front end to interface with the backend server....more then likely not. It saddens me that so much of society fully accepts the NEWS media's word on any given issue without considering the facts that they opt to leave out to make the story sound more juicy and controversal. I have never seen a non biased report on anything like this in my life and at this point I don't expect to. And yes I read the news, but I don't take them for granted, I learn my facts, consider the ones that where left out that would make a person or business act such a way legally, and then come up with my own opinion. So please don't start a flame war with me about how the NEWS media is better then my own opinion. - --JB - -- James Brostek Crash or Cra5h on IRC "Some C programmers refer to the # operator as "stringization"; others feel that this term is too great an abuse of the English Language" -K. N. King # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:07:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Shaun Rader Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again - --- James Brostek wrote: > > So please don't start a flame war with me about how the NEWS media is > better then my own opinion. I am not sure I follow what we are talking about here. Which part was your opinion and which was news? Because the article I read today at http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2607522,00.html seemed to concur with your opinions that Napster is mean and is doing the same thing AOL or Microsoft does. I love Napster because of the rare songs I can find on there. I don't doubt that they use nasty tactics just like other big companies to try and shut down competition before they even start, etc (like the Linux clone you were talking about). I do see valid points to why Napster wouldn't want to have people using their servers with products not made by them though... It's their servers and they own them right? They can allow or disallow access as they please. - ------ Even more off topic about AIM: I don't see the logic in trying to force AOL's AIM to communicate with other instant messenger programs. Who says they are obligated to do so and why? - ------ Trying to stay on topic: Is there any Orbital mp3 ftp server up so we don't have to resort to Napster or gnutella? :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:56:07 -0400 From: James Brostek Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again I always express my opinions, some may or may not be the same of the mass media, but they are still mine. I take all possible facts that I can find to determin, and if needed, express my opinions to others. The MS/AOL parity I was talking about was exactly that, clones trying to connect to the napster server. Napster has produced the program for other platforms through binaries. But others have reversed engineered their product, but it still connects to the napster server. Just like when MS offered their chat that would connect to the MS zone and AIM servers. AOL did not like that....its the same with napster. They have put lots of sweat and money into their infrastructure that they do not want clones connecting and possibly crashing or causing more downtime then they already contend with. I like napster, I can find MP3's of things not on CD, and even with the first MP3 car units, I still prefer my cd's cuz at least right now, I find them more convienent and less expensive then revamping my cars system. > ------ > Even more off topic about AIM: > > I don't see the logic in trying to force AOL's AIM to communicate with > other instant messenger programs. Who says they are obligated to do so > and why? It was AOL's AIM trying to stop MS from connecting to the AIM servers, not the other way around. This was a MS decision, a bad on considering the current spotlight on the browser wars that where already giving them bad enough press in the major population. > Is there any Orbital mp3 ftp server up so we don't have to resort to > Napster or gnutella? :) I have my own private collection, but I dont make them public...at least not right now, I use enough bandwidth with shoutcast. But if there is somthing your looking for I might have it. - -JB - -- James Brostek Crash or Cra5h on IRC "Some C programmers refer to the # operator as "stringization"; others feel that this term is too great an abuse of the English Language" -K. N. King # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:02:04 +0000 From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again Brandon wrote: > > I just read on msnbc, that Napster isn't playing nice with the other > classmates. It may be just me, but arn't they kinda pulling a "Do as I say, > don't do as I do" type of thing? They send a cease and desist order to > Offspring because they started selling shirts with the Napster logo on it? > I think that it is pathetic that a company who is all for free use of music > and video gets so pissy about someone making a linux version of their > program. Even going as far as blocking out computers who were trying to > access their servers without using their program. I still use napster, but > only because I am looking for a song that I can't find on gnutella "due to > not enough napster users going over to gnu. What's everyone's opinion on > this, or have I really been out of the loop, and everyone know this already. Fuck them! May their money-littered asses rot in corporate hell, and may they lose their legal case. That bit of news just seriously pissed me off. I use GNapster (the GTK version of Napster for X), and if they are pissed off about that, they can go fuck themselves! GNutella forever! - -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:07:52 +0000 From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again Shaun Rader wrote: > > Anyway I'm more interested in you finding rare songs on gnutella! Are > there songs out there because I end up searching every single Napster > server for things like rare Eat Static and Salt Tank but can't find it > that often. If gnutella actually had rare stuff I'd be searching on > there too but I checked one time and they didn't even have ONE Eat > Static song! What are you talking about? Every time I search on Gnutella, I get songs that I - --NEVER-- find on Napster. Napster may be more popular, but it's popularity is spread across hundreds of servers. Get that popularity on Gnutella, and you'll be able to search for absolutely every song on the planet! - -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:14:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Shaun Rader Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again - --- Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > > What are you talking about? Every time I search on Gnutella, I get > songs that I --NEVER-- find on Napster. Napster may be more popular, > but it's popularity is spread across hundreds of servers. Get that > popularity on Gnutella, and you'll be able to search for absolutely > every song on the planet! Wow I gotta try it again. I guess I haven't searched gnutella in a few months now.. I use Napigator to go through the extremely painful process of going to EACH Napster server searching for specific songs. So if everyone started using gnutella it would be even better. I hate that 100 search limit too on Napster.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:16:44 +0000 From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again James Brostek wrote: > > Why would others want to make napster clones? To get recognition, to > get "props", or to learn how their backend software works to reproduce > it under their own name? When you write proprietary code, it does not > mean you have to charge for it. But it does mean that it is not open > source and therefore the word proprietary. How about ports to alternative operating systems, you fucking jackass?! When the programmer fails to deliver on other people's demands, people turn to other sources, and it's their god given right to do so. > It saddens me that so much of society fully accepts the NEWS media's > word on any given issue without considering the facts that they opt > to leave out to make the story sound more juicy and controversal. I > have never seen a non biased report on anything like this in my life > and at this point I don't expect to. It saddens me that so many people think they know what the fuck they are talking about when they are in fact talking outta their ass! I happen to be a GNU programmer, and -I- know what the fuck I'm talking about! I'm insulted when some shit-for-brains makes a million off of some stupid piece of shit software that just so happens to get popular, and then gets pissy when somebody writes a better version for free. If you don't like it, get out of the capitalistic grind and start writing some quality GNU code. If you can't stand the heat, get your fucking ass outta the kitchen! - -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:10:49 +0000 From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Linkblaster Skip Acuff wrote: > > Name: TEXT.htm > TEXT.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (TEXT/HTML) > Encoding: base64 Putting your message in a attachment is VERY annoying. Never do that again. > Is this Linkblaster program (see below) the death knell of MP3 trading? Is > it limited to Napster or can it be used to kill MP3 links on Gnutella or > i-drive, for instance? > > LINKBLASTER ALLOWS FOR REMOVAL OF LINKS > MP3Board.com has developed a novel way to alleviate > copyright holder concerns about links to music files. > LinkBlaster allows the owners of music copyrights to sign up > for an individual account, review the links to music files and > Web pages found on the MP3Board database and remove links to > infringing works. > http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/breaking/merc/docs/022726.htm No. Nobody does MP3 web trading, so it doesn't matter. I think it's a stupid idea, because it's just a glorified search engine. - -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 03:21:02 +0200 From: chump Subject: (orbital) http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2354002.html hey please say goodbye to your napster http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2354002.html - -- bye chump chump@netvision.net.il # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 03:12:44 +0200 From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again > James Brostek wrote: > > > > Why would others want to make napster clones? To get recognition, to > > get "props", or to learn how their backend software works to reproduce > > it under their own name? When you write proprietary code, it does not > > mean you have to charge for it. But it does mean that it is not open > > source and therefore the word proprietary. > > How about ports to alternative operating systems, you fucking jackass?! Easy, Brendan!.. Watch your words! We DO wanna keep a moderate and respectful tone on this list! > When > the programmer fails to deliver on other people's demands, people turn to other > sources, and it's their god given right to do so. Hehe, phear the power of opensource! 8) We have reached a stage where companies can't afford to NOT support Linux, cause if they refuse to ("no market!") it will often hit back on them bigtime, just look at the DVD-Hack: Originated from the mere need of the Linux Opensource-community for a DVD-player and the Companies' refusal to make one themselves for Linux! >:-) Now look at the mess they're in!.. Suing www.2600.org for links cause they don't have any other aim to vent their anger at, how pathetic!.. DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 03:32:16 +0200 From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2354002.html > hey > please say goodbye to your napster > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2354002.html Okay, i personally never needed and used it anyway! >:-) Still, it kicked the Musicindustry's ass, which is great!.. Fighting Napster makes the RIAA seem like fighting windmills - mp3 has had its own dynamics from the very start, and there's no way the genie goes back in the bottle!... All this napster/www.2600.org fighting won't change SHIT!.. >:-) People know mp3, people use mp3, people want mp3, they don't give us mp3 - well fuck them! >:- ) We'll make our own!.. I heard the RIAA wants to sell liquid audio online now - at the SAME PRICE as a CD in the stores!... Hello? How stupid do you think we are? Your profits would be even HIGHER if we did that!... Plus liquid audio is worse in quality!.. What's all this shite with copyright-respecting music-formats?.. HOW is that supposed to work then? I may only copy a file x times - - gimme a fucking break!.. We're talking files here, digital copying!.. The question of HOW that should work left aside: How long do you fuckheads think it'll take till there were hacks, cracks and mp3- converters available?? The RIAA has gotta face it and go down with the prices, or they're doomed!.. It's as simple as that!.. If the power is with the people (which it definately is with mp3 - that's no hippie BS!) there's no use fighting it, even if you're the big bad RIAA! >:-) Same goes for M$/Opensource btw!.. ;-D DeeKay P.S.: ah, Halcyon! 8) nice! ;-D # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:37:35 GMT From: "e. lanum" Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again pardon me for jumping in on this late....its probably already been discussed but.. arent there most likely other "little napsters" running around and also couldnt someone (even napster) move their operations to a foreign domain? like i said pardon me if my arguements have already been debated, i lost all the messages in my inbox when my computer got sick ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:39:11 -0400 From: James Brostek Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again How about you show me some maturity and have a discussion to show your point of view without trying to insult me first. To start with, napster in the early days had official binary releases as I stated before supporting solaris, linux, and freebsd. Over time non official reverse engineered open source ports where released. This includes the GTK ripoff of the original unix port call Gnapster. So instead of wasting your time insulting me, please tell me if you hate it that much, why are you getting into this discussions about corperate politics guiding legal actions of napster? It seems you cannot stand the heat. I am sure you would bend the moment a corperation jumped down your neck about a port you made that connected to their server. I know what I am talking about. I know, love and completely support GNU movement. And I am sure it adds up to just as much or more then your inability to act like an adult and listen to someone elses opinion without needing to insult them or accuse I know nothing. First off, Nap made NOTHING off his program, he is not selling it, he is not charging for it....what he does have makes you jealous, he has a VC backing him. Oh wait so did Winamp and now it has the AOL backing...good or bad its money. It always starts the same way, and there is always someone like you to insult someone who is trying to have a calm, logical debate on an issue. Let me ask you this, if you wrote a great program, and a VC offered to create a company around it and dump 2-5 million of VC cash into it. Would you say f-off or would you take the money and laugh your way to the bank? I think you would take the money. But I could be wrong, maybe your just out for the props of reverse engineering someones closed proprietary source to write your own interface to it. If you understood the corperate kitchen, you would understand exactly what napster is doing and why. - --JB - -- James Brostek Crash or Cra5h on IRC "Some C programmers refer to the # operator as "stringization"; others feel that this term is too great an abuse of the English Language" -K. N. King # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:36:12 -0700 From: "morpheus" Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again > It saddens me that so many people think they know what the fuck they are talking > about when they are in fact talking outta their ass! I happen to be a GNU > programmer, and -I- know what the fuck I'm talking about! I'm insulted when > some shit-for-brains makes a million off of some stupid piece of shit software > that just so happens to get popular, and then gets pissy when somebody writes a > better version for free. If you don't like it, get out of the capitalistic > grind and start writing some quality GNU code. If you can't stand the heat, get > your fucking ass outta the kitchen! Hey dipshit, if you want to sound intelligent then start by not ranting and raving. You make your self into the "jackass" And incase you forgot, it doesn't cost you anything to use Napster, so how is it capitalist? Now who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. If anything, napster would be more communist in the way that it is shared to all for free. kevin (morpheus) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:36:27 +0000 From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again morpheus wrote: > > Hey dipshit, if you want to sound intelligent then start by not ranting and > raving. You make your self into the "jackass" And incase you forgot, it > doesn't cost you anything to use Napster, so how is it capitalist? Now who > doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. If anything, napster > would be more communist in the way that it is shared to all for free. Hey, I take it personally when somebody starts bashing the GNU community and they don't even know what the fuck they are talking about. If I'm going to flame, I'll flame, but it's always going to be an intelligent flame. So, it's your fault if you don't bother reading the message to find that out. No, Napster doesn't cost anything, but what the hell do you think they would care about their clients using their product? Money. Advertizing. Future investments in getting the Napster program to spit out ads after every MP3 you download. Of course, that system is a house of cards unless they corner the market on the original Napster client. Otherwise, there will be clones that - -won't- spit out the ads, and they'll lose money. By the way, unless you want to be flamed again, I'd seperate the ideas of communism and socialism. Communism is a fucked-up and broken form of socialism. And Napster is NOT a socialistic system because the product may be free, but the code itself is hidden. OTOH, any GNU program would fit the socialistic mold just fine. - -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:57:58 +0000 From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster and GNU development... James Brostek wrote: > > How about you show me some maturity and have a discussion to show your > point of view without trying to insult me first. I will when you start to show me some respect to the people who write these programs. Not everybody writes this shit "to get recognition, to get props, or to learn how their backend software works to reproduce it under their own name". Some people just want a goddamn port to the their OS. > To start with, napster > in the early days had official binary releases as I stated before supporting > solaris, linux, and freebsd. Over time non official reverse engineered open > source ports where released. This includes the GTK ripoff of the original > unix port call Gnapster. So instead of wasting your time insulting me, > please tell me if you hate it that much, why are you getting into this > discussions about corperate politics guiding legal actions of napster? Ripoff? See, this is the bullshit that I'm talking about. Do you even know who wrote these programs and how long they took to write it? Do you even know how long it took to reverse-engineer the protocol? Next time you start flaming these guys, be sure you have a good reason to do so. > It seems you cannot stand the heat. I am sure you would bend the moment a > corperation jumped down your neck about a port you made that connected to > their server. You don't know me, so don't even try to guess. If you did, you'd know I'm a stubborn motherfucker that won't bend his morals for nobody. I'd likely take it to court, and I know that those GNU lawyers can eat a man alive in seconds... > I know what I am talking about. I know, love and completely > support GNU movement. And I am sure it adds up to just as much or more > then your inability to act like an adult and listen to someone elses opinion > without needing to insult them or accuse I know nothing. First off, Nap > made NOTHING off his program, he is not selling it, he is not charging for > it....what he does have makes you jealous, he has a VC backing him. Oh > wait so did Winamp and now it has the AOL backing...good or bad its money. > It always starts the same way, and there is always someone like you to insult > someone who is trying to have a calm, logical debate on an issue. For the record, WinAMP sold out. They had plently of good business going until they were attracted by AOL's money. ICQ and Netscape got hit on a low point in their business, and were bought out. I plan on using Mozilla when it comes out (not Netscape), and for the time being, ICQ is the best choice. As far as Napster goes, I have the option of GNutella and I'm going to take it. > Let me ask you this, if you wrote a great program, and a VC offered to create > a company around it and dump 2-5 million of VC cash into it. Would you > say f-off or would you take the money and laugh your way to the bank? I would say fuck off. Seriously. You don't believe me? I have a great message board that I could potentially make lots of money off of, but I don't because there are more important things in life than money. You want a more detailed answer? Here: http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/stories/thanx.html > I think you would take the money. But I could be wrong, maybe your just > out for the props of reverse engineering someones closed proprietary source > to write your own interface to it. Why are these the only two choices? How about just making a port for Linux? If there are problems with the Linux version of Napster, then people are going to bitch and use (or create) something else. I'd love it if somebody created a better Real player for Linux, because the one they have now totally sucks ass! > If you understood the corperate kitchen, you would understand exactly what > napster is doing and why. I know exactly why, but it's going to fail. Miserably. I think I explained it well in my reply to Morpheus' message. - -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:01:35 +0000 From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again deekay@mail.dfu.de wrote: > > Hehe, phear the power of opensource! 8) We have reached a stage > where companies can't afford to NOT support Linux, cause if they > refuse to ("no market!") it will often hit back on them bigtime, just > look at the DVD-Hack: Originated from the mere need of the Linux > Opensource-community for a DVD-player and the Companies' > refusal to make one themselves for Linux! >:-) Now look at the > mess they're in!.. Suing www.2600.org for links cause they don't > have any other aim to vent their anger at, how pathetic!.. Heh. That battle is so fierce that somebody made another program called "DeCSS", which takes out the CSS from a HTML page. The aim is to confuse the corporate lawyers from hunting down "DeCSS", the DVD-player for Linux. - -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:09:59 -0400 From: "Shannon K. Campbell" Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster in the spotlight again Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > How about ports to alternative operating systems, you fucking jackass?! Take your medication, dude! Talk about a fucking jackass... %^D # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:36:17 -0400 From: Oleg Rekutin Subject: (orbital) OT: just a helpful suggestion Most of the e-mail clients today support so-called "killfiles" or filters that automatically delete e-mail coming from a specific name or e-mail address. Killfiles are useful in that they save you from the trouble of pressing the Delete button all the time or even having to bother to look over a worthless or unwelcome message. Save time, save bandwidth, save nerves--put a disruptive poster in a killfile today. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:12:06 -0400 From: James Brostek Subject: Re: (orbital)OT: Napster and GNU development... > I will when you start to show me some respect to the people who write these > programs. Not everybody writes this shit "to get recognition, to > get props, or to learn how their backend software works to reproduce > it under their own name". Some people just want a goddamn port to the their OS. I show respect for all of the programmers that write GNU code. If you had any troubleshooting or investigating ability, you would know by now that I own one windows machine. This is for my games. Otherwise I am a linux shop running 5 servers and a slew of mailing lists. I been promiting and involved in GNU since I graduated HS in '93. So if you want respect, its there. If you want to hear my views on why a company would try to protect THEIR intrests not the GNU communities. > Ripoff? See, this is the bullshit that I'm talking about. Do you even know who > wrote these programs and how long they took to write it? Do you even know how > long it took to reverse-engineer the protocol? Next time you start flaming > these guys, be sure you have a good reason to do so. Considering how I have seen napster go. It is a rip off. It was not taken from the original source, it was written through reverse engineering. I would not know how long it took that person, but then I knew the protocol to start with. > You don't know me, so don't even try to guess. If you did, you'd know I'm a > stubborn motherfucker that won't bend his morals for nobody. I'd likely take it > to court, and I know that those GNU lawyers can eat a man alive in seconds... And you don't know me, so why do I get bashed for understanding why a company would react in such a way to protect their investment. Do you know much time it took to write the server code, debug the database issues. Get the bandwidth to handle the connections. Being paged at 4 in the morning to reboot servers because they locked up and finally get to a point where it is stable. Only to have someone who reverse engineered their protocol open connect to their server and start the process of troubleshooting crashes all over again. Only because the port does not handle the connections properly/]? I know I have run into this problem, if the protocol is not GNU, then how can you conceive to write a port for something that runs on a proprietary protocol? > For the record, WinAMP sold out. They had plently of good business going until > they were attracted by AOL's money. ICQ and Netscape got hit on a low point in > their business, and were bought out. I plan on using Mozilla when it comes out > (not Netscape), and for the time being, ICQ is the best choice. As far as > Napster goes, I have the option of GNutella and I'm going to take it. I am surprised you are not running it already. I am already running beta versions and have no more issues then running linux netscape. Gnutella is a great program I have found some rare mixes through it, and I will continue to use it like I have been for the past 6 months when I found a use for it other then pirated software. > I would say fuck off. Seriously. You don't believe me? I have a great message > board that I could potentially make lots of money off of, but I don't because > there are more important things in life than money. You want a more detailed > answer? Here: > > http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/stories/thanx.html Thats great for you. But if I was trying to make a living off my programming and to no longer be the corperate slave. I think I would change it. I work for a CLEC's ip backbone, I know and live polotics of a large company ever day. So it seems we differ in opinions. But that is exactly in, MY opinion. So instead of attacking me with insults, why dont you argue your opinion and look like a much more mature and intelligent adult. That way you won't get slammed with all of the emails attacking your back. Two of us where having a discussion, a debate on the actions of Napster. I saw it as justified for a company trying to survive in the ways it needs to. > Why are these the only two choices? How about just making a port for Linux? If > there are problems with the Linux version of Napster, then people are going to > bitch and use (or create) something else. I'd love it if somebody created a > better Real player for Linux, because the one they have now totally sucks ass! I never said I would not make a port. If anything it would be out on linux before windows. Since porting from linux to windows is more of ruining your program for those less fortunate to be running a unix varient. However, I don't think I would offer the source depending on how I felt about the program I wrote. If it was my billing system that I was selling, I would never offer the source, only precompiled binaries for all standard system loads and varients. > I know exactly why, but it's going to fail. Miserably. I think I explained it > well in my reply to Morpheus' message. I see your views, but I continue to disagree. But then that would again be my opinion. So here is a suggestion for next time around. If you feel someone is bashing GNU. Act like an adult, don't got for the direct insult. Instead express your feelings about the possible GNU bashing and have a real, solid, and calm discussion/debate. You may be able to argue like that around frineds and co-workers....but I am neither. Keep that on your mind next time. - --JB - -- James Brostek Crash or Cra5h on IRC "Some C programmers refer to the # operator as "stringization"; others feel that this term is too great an abuse of the English Language" -K. N. King # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------ End of orbital-digest V2 #352 *****************************