From: owner-persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com (persfin-digest) To: persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: persfin-digest V5 #43 Reply-To: persfin Sender: owner-persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes persfin-digest Saturday, August 15 1998 Volume 05 : Number 043 In this issue of the Personal Finance Digest: contract "employees" retirement account Re: Wills Re: Disney's controversy Re:High income, low risk? :-) Re: IRA expenses part of contributions, or separable? Re: retirement accounts for contract employees? Re: refinancing advice Re: Affordable Attorney drafted Wills - NC and GA Can a non-professional advertise investments Re: High income, low risk? :-) Re: Asset Allocation , part 2 Re: Income reduction from rental property Stock options - not public Vacation Rental Ownership Is investing all at once the best way? Term Life Insurance - Company ratings Re: tax deductible When to Contribute to SIMPLE IRA Q The messages posted to the Persfin-Digest are opinions and are not intended to substitute for qualified professional advice. Subscribers should seek the services of qualified professionals for such advice. The publisher, Internet provider, and Digest contributors cannot be held responsible for any loss incurred as a result of the application of any of the information provided here. To ask questions or provide answers, send your email to "persfin-digest@lists.xmission.com". Also, you can "reply" to the persfin-digest and your email tool should fill in the same address. However, if you "reply", be sure to edit the subject field in your email to reflect your topic. Copyright (c) 1998, Jeff Salisbury POSTED SUBSCRIPTION FEE: $20/year. Payment is optional. You will not be billed. The Digest is available to all subscribers, whether or not they pay. I do not discriminate either in favor of paying subscribers or against nonpaying subscribers. If you feel that the information presented here is worth the fee, and you feel comfortable paying it, send cash, check, or money order (U.S. funds), payable to "Jeff Salisbury", to: Jeff Salisbury 65 North 1300 East Logan, Utah 84321 Payment will be acknowledged by e-mail if you include an e-mail address. Subscribe: e-mail majordomo@xmission.com, text: subscribe persfin-digest Unsubscribe: e-mail majordomo@xmission.net, text: unsubscribe persfin-digest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:55:39 -0500 (CDT) From: ldavis@ix.netcom.com (Lynn R Davis) Subject: contract "employees" retirement account "Catherine Steinberg" asked: >I'm currently a staff employee for a software company, and have been offered >a contract position at another company for about 50 percent more than I'm >making now. I have been participating in my current employer's 401(K) plan, >but as a contractor, this will no longer be an option. However, I still want >to sock away savings for retirement. Cathy: Are you a CONTRACTOR or an EMPLOYEE of the new entity? If you are actually a contractor (e.g. you pay self-employment taxes at the full 15.3%, whereas employees have the employer pick up half of that for them), then you are SELF-employed, and not an employee. Anyone who has ANY self-employment income in any year can open a KEOGH plan, which is simply your own one-employee retirement plan. There are lots of places to open one. I prefer to have mine self-directed. My life insurance agent at The New England told me about their program, where I use their plan and pay an annual fee, but I run the plan, with its own checking account and investments. The cost was $80 the first year and $40 each year thereafter (so far). I am sure that there are many others out there offering Keogh plans where they are the trustee and you invest in their mutual funds. My plan is a "profit sharing" plan where I can decide each year how much of my self-employment income to put in, up to a maximum of "15%" of "self-employment income". [I say 15% in quotations because it is really 15/115 the way they calculate it, or about 13% of what most people would consider "income".] I have until April 15th (or when I file my tax return each year) to decide how much to contribute from the previous year's self-employment income. But again, Keogh plans such as I have described above are for those who report their income on Schedule C as self-employed business people with no employees, not for "employees" of any type. Keogh plans are also for people who have a Schedule C business on the side (with no employees), even though they themselves may be employees elsewhere. (Business owners who have employees can open Keoghs as well, but that gets WAY more complicated as you have to cover your employees as well in most cases, and involves issues much more complex than I can discuss here. If you own any significant part (I think it is 5% or more) of ANY business anywhere that has employees, lots of special rules would apply to you.) Lynn Davis Fremont, CA - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:07:27 EDT From: Subject: Re: Wills Speaking of wills, my husband and I recently had ours updated by a lawyer. A few thoughts: You have got to be kidding if you think using a piece of software is a better deal than paying the measly $200 or so a lawyer will charge. Besides ensuring that we got it done right, our lawyer gave us information we were unaware of, such as how our life insurance policies would impact our estate and how we should change the "ownership" of the policies from how they were currently titled. And we didn't even pay the $200 fee. It was a covered service in the Montgomery Ward Legal Services Plan, which we belong to. For $9/mo we have access to an assigned lawyer. It has worked out great for us. Each time we've needed him, he helped in a timely, efficient manner and it didn't cost us a cent. He resolved problems for us that we probably would have just let go if we had to pay a consulation fee. I highly recommend this plan. I believe you have to be a Wards credit card holder to participate. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:49:25 +0000 From: "Lloyd Colston" Subject: Re: Disney's controversy > Won't it be a great day when we have a society where it will be > considered uncontroversial and downright positive to not be > influenced by homo-philo activists? > > Thanks to Bill for his support, however, Ira is right that this thread should be ended, if for no other reason than it is off-topic for the list. Thanks to Ira for his wisdom in nipping this in the bud. Lloyd Colston Excellence is not an accident Pryor, OK USA social worker, writer, editor Member: International Small Business Consortium KC5FM Home page http://www.Lloyd.Colston.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 16:46:20 -0500 From: David Martin Subject: Re:High income, low risk? :-) Melinda writes: >Am I assuming too much risk that I'll buy in at a market high >if I put the $70,000 into the funds all at the same tims? I >don't have time to DCA in and DCA back out. Yes. >Should I just bag this whole idea and leave it all in money >market and laddered short term CDs and forget about taking any >risk at all? Yes. -David Martin dmartin@hc.ti.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:36:44 -0400 From: Rich Carreiro Subject: Re: IRA expenses part of contributions, or separable? >with "non-contribution" cash- that is, can I buy $2000 worth of stock in >the account with my annual >contribution, and pay for the commission with additional money out of >pocket? Nope. The only expenses that can come from outside are the annual custodial fees (if any) if they are separately billed. Commissions and other transaction fees come out of the account, and if you try to pay them from outside, they are considered IRA contributions. Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:41:00 -0400 From: Rich Carreiro Subject: Re: retirement accounts for contract employees? >If I understand it correctly, I *can't* open a tax-deductible IRA in the >same calendar year during which I have participated in a 401(k) plan. Have I Probably correct. Participating in a 401(k) for even one day in a tax year means you are subject to the income tests on IRA deductibility. Depending on your AGI, you can deduct some, none, or all of your IRA contribution. See Pub 590 for the details. Pedantic note -- there's no such thing as a "deductible IRA" or a "non-deductible IRA." There are traditional IRAs, Roth IRAs, and Education IRAs. With respect to the first, you can (until age 70.5) always contribute $2000/yr (or earned income, whichever is less). Whether you can deduct any or all of the contribution depends on if you participate in a qualified plan, and if so, what your AGI is. Non-deductible contributions cannot be segregated into an individual IRA account. Once a non-deductible contribution is made, it becomes proportionally part of all your traditional IRA account. Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:48:07 -0400 From: jack law Subject: Re: refinancing advice >Well, the most obvious thing that you are missing is the possibility >that your investments will drop. Have you considered the possibility >that the current "correction" will lose an additional 40%? I agree. If I do the refinance, I certainly wouldn't dump the entire amount in an aggressive stock fund. I understand that there are no guarantees. > >Basically, you are thinking of borrowing money to invest in the stock >market. That's risky, ESPECIALLY with the market as high as it is. >There are plenty of opportunities out there that could turn this into >a full fledged bear market. The market is nervous and it could break >down in a hurry....or slowly, bit by bit. I agree again. I certainly would stay in a balanced fund for at least five years. > >Also don't forget that the "tax writeoff" only recovers a portion of >the money you are "giving away" to the bank. I get the picture. I am gambling getting a higher return against a guaranteed %6.75 minus my tax bracket by paying down my existing mortgage. In addition, the peace of mind that a low mortgage brings. I really appreciate you taking the time to contact me. Thanks I appreciate your advice. Jack - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 09:50:45 -0400 From: Randy Barnes Subject: Re: Affordable Attorney drafted Wills - NC and GA > Lisa wrote: > - -------- > My husband and me -- both in our mid-30s -- have two preschoolers and > are expecting a third child. We've some assets, though not a ton. We > think it's time we did a will. Anyone have ideas on software that would > allow us to do our own, customizing it to fit North Carolina law (our > home state) so that it would be legally recognized should the need > arise? Any recommendations appreciated. Lisa, If mom and dad die the kids are devastated emotionally and without a will/trust they are unable to get your assets, including your life insurance, until they are 18. Now just what's the FIRST thing an 18 year old will do with $100k? College, right? Please include a trustee for children in your plan. Since you're in N.C. you are in luck. You have an opportunity to obtain wills prepared by dedicated estate planning attorneys very easily. I believe the fee for two simple wills is still $99 per couple, but it could be a little higher. They offer a couple of trust packages including Powers of Attorney that can't be beat. The only problem is that they are only in Greensboro and Charlotte,N.C., plus an office in Atlanta. This beats the pants off any do-it-yourself plan. I have done a little looking but have not been able to find a similar service in the 48 other states. Anyone know of something like this? I used to work for this company, (which has been around for nearly 20 years), and think they offer a fantastic service. Any company that offers a 60 right of cancellation, in writing, HAS to deliver the service and product that thrill customers. Look up *Personal Legal Plans, Inc. in the phone book and call them this week. You could also reach one of their consultants at mailto:cutch442@mindspring.com IN most every state you could also obtain a free will (and much more) prepared by your provider attorney firm, via PrePaid Legal Services. This 27 year old public company (Ticker:PPD)is also top drawer and is sort of like a legal HMO at around $16 month. If want more info on this mailto:nasi@mindspring.com - - Randy ( OK, I'm no lawyer either, and your kids' guardian can have access to the money IF they appear in your county probate court and get permission from the judge to have a certain amount for a certain purpose..yadda yadda. If you'd ever seen anyone living under these circumstances, as I have, you would act promptly to take care of this. Stick your documents in a drawer and rest easily for the next 20 years, then review your plan for the next stage of your life.) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:38:45 -0700 From: "ingrid" Subject: Can a non-professional advertise investments I recently heard from a relative in Germany about an interesting way to invest in high- tech recycling centers there. I am not writing this to solicit business from persfin readers, but to ask: I would like to help publicize this as a sociallly responsible investment on the Web. Is there a way I can do this legally as a non-professional, meaning, I'm not a broker? Ingrid Good - ---------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:37:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "L. Chen" Subject: Re: High income, low risk? :-) > I'm having a difficult time determining how to allocate some > assets for the short term while still maintaining liquidity > and achieving a better return than that offered by CDs or > money market accounts. Here are the specifics: > > I have $140,000 in a money market fund. There are other assets, > but those are tied up in retirement accounts and don't figure in > this scenario. This $140,000 is also above and beyond my 6 month > "emergency fund." > > I'll be starting up a franchise within the next 2 to 8 months. > The time frame is indeterminate because we are still looking > for a suitable site. We may find one in 3 weeks, we may find > one in 6 months. It'll be a retail kid's clothing operation. Conventional wisdom has it that if you need the money within 5 years, don't put that money in the market. > Up until the business opens, I'll need to make this $140,000 > work as hard as possible, but will still need to keep most of > it as liquid as possible, too. > > I plan to use up to $100,000 for startup costs (inventory, > training, lease, insurance, legal fees, building out the store, > etc.) and the remaining $40,000 for working capital. I don't know how you come up with that $140K figure. But statistics show that small businesses generally under-estimates startup costs and working capital. > What I'm planning to do is maintain $70,000 in the money market > account and split the remaining $70,000 between the following > funds, all chosen because they're available as Fidelity > "no transaction fee" funds, and have good Morningstar ratings > and a good long term (5 years+) track record: > > 10% to Baron Asset fund (small cap) > 15% to Hotchkiss and Wiley Equity Income fund > 10% to Invesco Strategic Finance fund (sector) > 40% to Loomis and Sayles Investment grade bond fund > 25% to Dreyfus High Yield bond fund > > I'll be routing all the income and dividends from these funds > into the money market account to bolster my working capital > and protect it (the income, at least) from share price declines. It is not clear to me how you will protect your working capital from share price declines. The market movement in the past 10 days should convince you that a extra 3%(?) PER ANUM return will not compensate for a 10% decline in share prices in a month -- figuratively speaking. > ................... > Should I just bag this whole idea and leave it all in money > market and laddered short term CDs and forget about taking any > risk at all? DEFINATELY. Chen - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:35:24 -0400 From: "Steve Foulks" Subject: Re: Asset Allocation , part 2 > Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 23:00:53 -0400 > From: Randy Barnes > Subject: Re: Asset Allocation , part 2 > > >Really? If I had to choose, I would choose Vanguard Windsor II for the > >longer haul. It has the same beta as Janus and charges less in internal > >transaction fees. If I had my choice, I would own both Windsor II which > >is a more value-oriented stock fund and Janus, which is a more > >growth-oriented fund. > > Performance: Trailing Return % (SOURCE: Morningstar) > 3 Yr 5 Yr > 1 Mo 3 Mo 1 Yr Avg Avg > ........................................................................ > S&P 500 Index 4.06 3.30 30.15 30.22 23.06 > Janus 6.01 6.12 31.99 25.60 19.23 > Vanguard/Windsor II 1.33 1.80 30.43 30.18 22.29 > Vanguard/Windsor -0.79 -2.24 17.01 22.35 19.03 > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Primo, > > Three cheers for your opinion and input. Serious discussion of > investment topics has been pretty lame around here for a good while. I > applaud your effort and think you could be right. > > I took a second look at the reasons I'd picked Janus in the first place > and rediscovered another reason I'm no fan of mutual funds. Fund data is > available in a million places but it is very inconsistent and VERY easy > to manipulate. > > I too went to Morningstar to get a peek at performance figures etc. This > is where I found the data that led to my previous post. The funny thing > is that the figures I find aren't the same as those you quote. Sometimes > different services report different figures and sometimes the same > service reports different figures for the same thing. Go figure;-) > > At the following links you'll see Janus beating the S&P in the 10 year > time frame buy better that 1%. THe WinsorII lags the index, as does just > about every mutual fund in the universe. I give Janus the nod, with a > 1.68% advantage (at least using this particular quote). > > Janus - > http://www.morningstar.net/FundQT/RR_Performance/JANSX.msfhtml > Winsor - > http://www.morningstar.net/FundQT/RR_Performance/VWNFX.msfhtml > > A small account of $200 per month for 10 years gains $7,600 more using > the Janus 10 year figure. (Ignoring taxes completely!) > [pv=-200,pmt=-200,n=12,r=.x/12] - Careful. The next 10 years results > will be different. > > Now, this brings to mind another question. Are the S&P returns inclusive > of dividends, or not? THis is quoted both ways depending on who is > reporting. Before you know it you've written a thesis on which mutual > fund manager beat the market, or at least came close. The S & P 500 index measures total return, which includes dividends. > > SPYders,(or index funds if you have a very small account), will > outperform almost every mutual fund over the long haul. SPYders are far > less trouble to own, and will serve you better for the future, with much > less energy. Save money by not buying crap like magazines with "10 HOT > Funds to Buy NOW!!" on the cover. Instead, buy yourself a self-help > book, put an extra few bucks in your account, buy a kid something > foolish, take a class, you get the picture. Use the savings to not pay > your accountant to figure out the mutual fund statements you will no > longer get each year. Even more valuable than the money is the time. If > your time isn't worth $20-100 an hour then get busy and figure out what > you need to learn to make something of yourself. > > For SPY info see - http://www.amex.com or > http://www.fool.com/funds/funds5.htm > > One more tidbit. The S&P is always got a wonderful blend of growth and > value stocks. No muss, no fuss. > > FYI, I DO own positions in 2 funds, but only in a 401k, and there I have > no tax issues (for now) and I don't have much to choose from. We don't > even have an index fund in the mix .(Not my decision!) > > I am not really trying to flame mutual funds. (lie) It's just that > anyone with a little common sense and intelligence soon sees the fact > that funds are too often laggards. Smart money just buys the market and > leaves it alone. > (still my favorite link, see: > http://www.pathfinder.com/fortune/investor/1998/980706/dfa.html > > If you're like me and must spend hours knee-deep in invest-o-mania, then > stick to owning stocks, not funds. Statistics have shown that owning > just 16 stocks eliminates 93% of market risk, so the diversification > issue that this started with is sorta meaningless. The average person > really can beat the market, but not in a fund. While I agree with your basic premise that non index mutual funds are generally poor investments, I disagree with your premise that "the average investor can beat the market" It just doesn't make sense. Mutual funds are run by average people who have been trained in financial analysis. The reason why mutual funds underperform the market is due to transaction costs (management fees, brokerage fees, mailings, etc.) A study by Michael Freund in the 1970's showed that when you eliminate transactions costs, mutual funds performed exactly like the market. Since professionals perform exactly like the market, how can average people (non professional managers) beat the market? In fact US stock markets are highly efficient, which means that on average NO ONE is going to beat the market, and those that do may just be lucky?. If capital markets operate in this fashion, what do you do? Low cost mutual funds are one alternative, and the other is to construct a well diversified portfolio of individual stocks, and hold them for ever, which is my strategy. I never look at annual reports, investment news letters, etc. Rather than wasting hours analyzing knee deep out dated investment crap, I enjoy life. My returns have been better that the market, because I generally chose blue chip stocks, not because I "time" the market, or know how to pick winners. I buy stocks when I have money and would only sell stocks if I needed money. If I spend an hour a month thinking about my investments, that would be an unusual event. Obviously financial publications (Barron's, Value Line), financial institutions (brokers, banks, etc.) have a vested interest in convincing you that you can beat the market if you just buy their services. They like to pooh pooh the notion that capital markets are efficient, and most investors like to believe them because it feeds their fantasy that the stock market offers get rich quick potential, for those who really do their work! Steven M. Foulks, CPA, CFP, PhD Northern Michigan University - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:54:29 -0700 From: Mike Broadhurst Subject: Re: Income reduction from rental property In a recent discussion of landlord tax breaks, ldavis@ix.netcom.com (Lynn R Davis) said: >>MOST people CAN, if they do it right, deduct rental losses against other income. First, they must "actively manage" the property themselves. For example, they must select the renters, and carry out other landlord responsibilities. << Now I ask: Exactly how active is "active?" I own a property, currently tied up in an unlawful detainer action, that I've actively managed -- up to this point -- as you've described. However, I've been considering hiring a management firm to handle the property once the eviction is complete. The company offers varying degrees of management. Under one option, they will advertise and screen prospective tenants and negotiate the lease. I, however, retain full responsibility for choosing the tenant and setting the rent, and dealing with the tenants for the duration of the lease. Under another option, the management firm handles everything -- from screening, leasing, handling maintenance problems, to collecting rents and paying the mortgage, homeowners association, etc. -- and just send to me any money that's left over (there won't be any). They'll even guarantee to pay the monthly amount due me, even if the tenant defaults. I'd love to be rid of the headache of leasing and collecting rents. But I don't want to forego the ability to deduct my rental losses this year (and they will be considerable) against income. If I contract with a management firm on Sept. 1, do lose my deductions even though I managed the property on a solo basis for nearly three-quarters of the year? How about if I just have the firm screen tenants and negotiate the lease? Or, am I small-time enough to take the full-service management arrangement (which will likely result in a small negative cash flow situation) and still claim that I'm actively involved in managing the property? Thanks, in advance, for any advice! Mike Broadhurst - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:15:06 -0400 From: PowellFamily Subject: Stock options - not public My husband has a stock option for the young company he works for. When looking on the open market for what the ticker symbol may be for this company, I find nothing. Would this be worth anything if the company is not publicly traded? How would I find out what it's worth? Sherri - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:46:08 EDT From: Subject: Vacation Rental Ownership > Subject: Real Estate > > I am considering buying a beach-condominium as rental/investment > property. I've never owned a house at all before, what are the best > references to learn about the ins and outs? > > The cash flow is negative by approx $100 per month, but the prices have > been climbing fast in these developments for several years, and they will > make ideal retirement homes for aging baby-boomers (pool, beach, golf, > tennis). > > Appreciate any input > > Scott Mabel Aloha Scott, Three years ago we bought a small condo in Kihei, Maui, Hawaii. We are very pleased with the condo. We live in Maui at the condo four months a year. We did not realize that we would enjoy coming back to our own place as much as we do. When we are not at the condo we rent it out for $60.00 a night in the summer and $80.00 a night in the winter. We have been very successful with our rental program, but we do work at it on the web. Our best teacher has been just doing it and talking to other, similar condo owners. Please e-mail if you would like to discuss further. Bob - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:51:02 -0400 From: Adam Londre Subject: Is investing all at once the best way? I'm in the process of converting my 401(k) investments to 4 different IRA accounts. During the process I converted roughly 70% of my stock positions to a money market account (and thus am missing out on this latest stock price correction). Anyone know if the best investment strategy is to reinvest all my proceeds into the market all at once(86% stocks, 14% bonds) or would it be better to invest half now and then every 3 or 6 months transfer funds from my money market account into the market say over a period of 2 years? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:34:14 -0700 From: sprasad@cauvery.Eng.Sun.COM (Shankar Prasad) Subject: Term Life Insurance - Company ratings Hi I am looking to buy term life insurance (level for 20 years). I called my auto insurance agent (All State), and he was able to provide a quote from Lincoln Benefit (he said that it was a subsidiary of AllState). The quote was not the very best, like I got from QuoteSmith or MasterQuote (mail-in cards). But the difference is not very large, and taking the local presence of the agent into account, I would rather go with the Allstate agent. However, I would like to know details about the ratings (financial, customer service etc) of the Lincoln Benefit company. Is there some place I can check AM Best or other insurance ratings ? The quote was about $94/100K/year for 20-year level (32-year Male). The best quotes from QuoteSmith etc ranged from $74-$120. Should I be calling other AllState agents as well ? Any suggestions about other agents or term-life companies are welcome. I am in the SFO Bay Area, and have not always been a US resident, and will also be travelling occasionally to India. - -- Regards Shankar Prasad sprasad@eng.sun.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:46:44 EDT From: Subject: Re: tax deductible >my wife is in a nurseing home >its cost me 3300.00 per mouth >is it tax deductible >fully or % wise >thank >john walters Check IRS Notice 97-31 for the conditions which must be met. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:08:02 -0500 (CDT) From: T Koyn Subject: When to Contribute to SIMPLE IRA Q When operating a SIMPLE IRA for a sole proprietorship business with no employees, when is the latest that one may make their contribution for the year? SIMPLE IRA forms from a stockbroker provide an employee deferal form where you specify a percent of pay or dollar amount per pay period suggesting it should be done throughout the year. For a sole proprietorship, one can't know what the profit or compensation is until the end of the year when all income and expenses have been tabulated. I heard that the employee deferal must be within 30 days of the last day of the month after being withheld from the employee's wages. Does this imply that for a sole proprietorship that the "employee" portion must be sent in by Jan 30 of the new year under an interpretation that "wages" are paid to oneself at the end of the year? Are there any other interpreations of when compensation is considered paid in a sole proprietorship that might require money to be contributed sooner or throughout the year, e.g. does the timing of receipt of payments from customers matter? I understand that the employer match can be sent until April 15. Or is the whole compensation issue moot and we have until April 15 to send in the entire contribution to the broker for a sole proprietorship SIMPLE IRA? Thanks for any information on these questions. koyn@anet-stl.com - - ------------------------------ End of persfin-digest V5 #43 **************************** - To unsubscribe to persfin-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe persfin-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.