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Subject: port-charles-digest V1 #49
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port-charles-digest       Thursday, June 4 1998       Volume 01 : Number 049




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:46:05 -0700
From: Taiyin <sigmund@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: GH/PC: i can't believe i'm saying this...

At 01:16 PM 5/28/98 -0400, Julie E. Saker wrote:
>okay, you guys better sit down for this one, because i for one
>can't believe i'm going to say this, but...i was WRONG, WRONG,
>WRONG!!!  i'm sorry, mr. guza, for doubting you, and for getting
>you confused with your completely incompetent predecessors.

Dahling, please qualify statements like that. <g>

Of course, I do agree with everything you've said.  For the first time
since before Brenda wore the wire back in 1995 I was actually impressed
with her.  That shocked the hell out of me.

I didn't like the fact that in several small ways they continually DID
dismiss so much of S&B's relationship.  I still can't stand Jax, but I did
actually feel really sorry for him as soon as he realized that Brenda was
visiting Sonny.

Over all, I was impressed with the way it was handled.  I especially like
the fact that they addressed the fact that no matter how much they loved
each other, neither one of them ever managed to get the trust and honesty
bit and THAT was what did them in.  But they could acknowledge the fact
that they still did love each other.  Having love without trust is one
thing.  Having a successful relationship without it is something else.

>all that, and he killed kat, too?  can we nominate guza for sainthood?  :)

Now THAT ONE gets a RESOUNDING "Amen!!" from me. 

Although, I must say, this "Saint Kathrine" crap is REALLY pissing me off!
Katherine Bell is the one who stole money from an AIDS benefit for no other
reason than to thumb her nose at Lucy.  She was an amoral snot.  And
somehow her involvement with Mac is supposed to absolve her of all the
heinous things she did before that?  I don't THINK so.

I've never seen the citizens of Port Charles have such short and convenient
memories before.  <grump>

Taiyin
"I was thinking about us in the kitchen."
- --"Oh Lucy, the kitchen is far too dangerous a place, 
     there are all those free-standing appliances."
	--Lucy and Kevin, "GH"

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:48:11 -0700
From: Taiyin <sigmund@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: GH/PC: Cassadines

At 05:58 PM 5/31/98 -0700, Lynda T Phan wrote:
>What is the relationship between Mikkos, Stavros, Helena, and Stefan? 
>Thanks in advance.

Mikkos and Helena were Stavros and Stefan's parents.

Luke killed both Mikkos and Stavros and that's why both Helena and Stefan
hate him.

Taiyin
"I was thinking about us in the kitchen."
- --"Oh Lucy, the kitchen is far too dangerous a place, 
     there are all those free-standing appliances."
	--Lucy and Kevin, "GH"

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 06:51:37 -0700
From: "Fred & Rickie Yopp" <yopp@rightathome.com>
Subject: GH/PC: GH/KATNERINE

 Is it true the kate is still going to be on General Hospital.  How are
they going to pull that one off.  She did die didn't she?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:00:48 -0400
From: "Julie E. Saker" <jesaker@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: GH/PC: i can't believe i'm saying this...

Message text written by INTERNET:port-charles@lists.xmission.com

>> i'm sorry, mr. guza, for doubting you, and for getting
>>you confused with your completely incompetent predecessors.

>Dahling, please qualify statements like that. <g>

sorry, taiyin!  you are indeed correct.  the amended statement should be
"your completely incompetent IMMEDIATE predecessors."  apologies =

to the labines, etc.  :)

>Of course, I do agree with everything you've said.  For the first time
>since before Brenda wore the wire back in 1995 I was actually impressed
>with her.  That shocked the hell out of me.

you and me both...any hope it will last, i wonder?

>Over all, I was impressed with the way it was handled.  I especially lik=
e
>the fact that they addressed the fact that no matter how much they loved=

>each other, neither one of them ever managed to get the trust and honest=
y
>bit and THAT was what did them in.  But they could acknowledge the fact
>that they still did love each other.  Having love without trust is one
>thing.  Having a successful relationship without it is something else.

indeed.  i think they left it to be assumed, in many cases, that they did=

and do love each other--and i agree that i would have liked to see it
made a little more clear (ok, a LOT more clear would have been fine
by me!  :)  -- but all in all, i was really impressed.  i think the overa=
ll
tone of the conversation was perfect, and a large part of what allowed
the unspoken assumption that they did/do very much love each other.
the fact that they were able to be so conciliatory, and friendly, and
reminisce together...it wasn't perfect, but it was SOOOOO much better
than what i expected to get, that i was jumping for joy nonetheless.

and speaking of guza the great...how about laura and lucky's scene
from friday?!?  GO LAURA!!!  it's about time somebody set that kid
straight about what is and is NOT his business...and hers, for that
matter.  i'm REALLY looking forward to seeing her tear into luke
today!  :)

>I've never seen the citizens of Port Charles have such short and
convenient
>memories before.  <grump>

no argument from me!  but at least she's gone!  :)

julie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:14:03 -0400
From: "Julie E. Saker" <jesaker@compuserve.com>
Subject: GH/PC: GH/KATNERINE

Message text written by INTERNET:port-charles@lists.xmission.com

>Is it true the kate is still going to be on General Hospital.  How are
>they going to pull that one off.  She did die didn't she?


she definitely did die.  however...

s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e

b
e
l
o
w

someone posted previously a quote by guza they had read in some
magazine, saying something like "katherine is dead, but all that means is=

that the character of katherine is dead," or something equally cryptic. =

what
he means by that is anyone's guess.  my suggestions, which i dearly hope
are wrong, concerned the typical soap opera moves of keeping the =

actress as a long lost twin, or a ghost, or (god forbid) a talking portra=
it
(a la edward quartermaine all those years ago).  the original poster
suggested
that perhaps helena did to kat whatever stefan did to laura's mother year=
s
ago, and that she's still technically alive under helena's "care," which =
is

possible, i suppose, since helena was with her right before she "died."

but...as far as we, the audience, and any of the characters know, she is
indeed
dead.  let's hope she stays that way...   :)

julie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:47:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Greg D." <gregd2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GH/PC: Cassadines

What is the relationship between Mikkos, Stavros,Helena, and Stefan? 
Thanks in advance.

Mikkos & Helena were husband and wife.  Stavros and Stefan were
brothers and the sons of Mikkos & Helena.
Hope this helps,
    Greg



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  1 Jun 1998 16:03:09, -0500
From: CJPV06C@prodigy.com (MR STEPHEN J CLEGG)
Subject: GH/PC: Cassadines

Cassadine Family Tree
     Mikkos married Helena
     Stefan and Stavros are brother; parents of Mikkos and Helena
     Alexis is the half sister of Stefan and Stavros and her parents 
are Mikkos and Chirstina.

Stephen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  1 Jun 1998 16:10:25, -0500
From: CJPV06C@prodigy.com (MR STEPHEN J CLEGG)
Subject: GH/PC: Internet Message 

How I'm I getting all of these E_Mails from everybody talking to each 
other. Is this that penpal thing that you talk about GH and PC?

Stephen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  1 Jun 1998 16:13:50, -0500
From: CJPV06C@prodigy.com (MR STEPHEN J CLEGG)
Subject: GH/PC: GH/KATNERINE

I heard that Kate will not be on because she died. But Mary Beth 
Evens will stay.

Stephen


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:41:02 -0400
From: "Julie E. Saker" <jesaker@compuserve.com>
Subject: GH/PC: Internet Message

Message text written by INTERNET:port-charles@lists.xmission.com

>How I'm I getting all of these E_Mails from everybody talking to each =

>other. Is this that penpal thing that you talk about GH and PC?<

one of the list moms will probably do a better job of this than i
will...but...

welcome to the gh/pc mailing list (and/or the kevin-and-lucy mailing
list, depending what you signed up for).  yes, this is where we talk
(via email) about gh and pc.  you email to one address =

(port-charles@xmission.com, for example), and your message goes
to everyone who's subscribed to the list.  so you're getting everyone
else's messages, and we're all getting yours.  kind of cool, no?  :)

didn't you get a subscription message when you signed up?

julie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  1 Jun 1998 19:24:15, -0500
From: CJPV06C@prodigy.com (MR STEPHEN J CLEGG)
Subject: GH/PC: Internet Message

Does anyone now were I can get this coming years Nureses' Ball t-
shirt?

Stephen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:59:25 EDT
From: <BeccaC83@aol.com>
Subject: Re: GH/PC: i can't believe i'm saying this...

In a message dated 98-06-01 12:02:42 EDT, you write:

<< and speaking of guza the great...how about laura and lucky's scene
 from friday?!?  GO LAURA!!!  it's about time somebody set that kid
 straight about what is and is NOT his business...and hers, for that
 matter.  i'm REALLY looking forward to seeing her tear into luke
 today!  :) >>

I disagree...I mean maybe it wasn't his business before he found out, but
after....? Well, what I'm saying I guess is that he's seen the effects of rape
and he doesn't like them AT ALL!! So, it's only natural that he wants to
protect his mother.  He compares Laura back then in his mind to Liz, and he
has every right to do that.  He resents Luke for actually raping her, and he
resents Laura for letting him get away with it.  And I must admit, that scene
with Luke and Laura today was great...I mean Laura is totally in denail, but
it was great the way she stood up to Luke like that.  I didn't think she had
it in her.

On another note, I'm really sick of this whole Katherine thing.  It's like,
she's dead, get over it!  But, I may be wrong here, but I think I read
somewhere that at Stefan's trial, everyone finds out that he's Nikolas'
father!  I'd like to see Luke's reaction to that!

One last thing...Sonny DESPERATLY NEEDS a storyline, and I don't mean that
thing with Carlos and Jason and the 'organization'  It's like, they bring him
back for 2 weeks, and they don't ever give him anything good to do?? What's up
with that?? Well, of course that one moment with Brenda was priceless and
enough to last a century, but......

~Rebecca 

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:52:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cagey <cagey@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: GH/PC: i can't believe i'm saying this...

Rebecca wrote:

>Well, what I'm saying I guess is that he's seen the
effects of rape
>and he doesn't like them AT ALL!! So, it's only natural
that he wants to
>protect his mother. 

But he's *not* protecting his mother--he's judging her, and
viewing her entire life with Luke through that single lens.
 I understand his reaction, but I don't agree with it.  Liz
was dead on the money today when she suggested that Lucky
was doing a disservice to both Laura and Liz by suggesting
that there's nothing *after* rape.

- --kg


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:31:03 -0400 
From: Danielle Graham <DGraham@bn.com>
Subject: GH/PC: I can't believe I'm saying this.....

Hi guys. Sorry, I haven't been involved, but I was out of the office for
2 weeks. But.....

>Although, I must say, this "Saint Kathrine" crap is REALLY pissing me
off!
>Katherine Bell is the one who stole money from an AIDS benefit for no
>other
>reason than to thumb her nose at Lucy. <And
somehow her involvement with Mac is supposed to absolve her of all the
heinous things she did before that?  

Well, it seems everyone hates Kat (I happen to probably the only one who
did/does like her & Bat!!! That's from my Days...days). Anyway, can we
say LUCY????? Hey, don't get me wrong, I love her to death & wish that
she & Kevin would be on GH as opposed to PC, which I cannot get into.
Well, I think y'all might have a "short memory" as people have written
about the GH'ers having sm, too! But remember back when, Lucy, the nerdy
librarian who was working w/Kevin (Terry's Kevin) to try & kill
Terry????? Also, Frisco & the bunch did like her at all! And then
marrying Alan for the $$$$? She's come along way. So, give Kat a lil'
bit of a break, huh?

Danielle


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:01:09 -0400 
From: Danielle Graham <DGraham@bn.com>
Subject: GH/PC: I can't believe I'm saying this......

<<.how about Laura and lucky's scene
<< from friday?!?  GO LAURA!!!  it's about time somebody set that kid
<< straight about what is and is NOT his business...and hers, for that
<< matter.  

I thought that scene was great, especially when Laura almost slapped
Lucky in the face...(that one should have landed). However, after
yesterday's episode w/Laura skating around whether she was "raped" by
Luke & saying they just had one bad nite while they were falling in
love....where in God's name did THAT come from???? IMHO, I think GH is
trying to answer up to the the "seduction scene" (which years ago,
that's what GH called it) versus the concept of it being rape. Also, I
think Laura is just blocking it out & never really dealt
w/it........This is my opinion only....but can't you just see Audrey,
Liz & Laura in the rape meetings???

Danielle




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:15:21 -0400
From: "Julie E. Saker" <jesaker@compuserve.com>
Subject: GH/PC: I can't believe I'm saying this......

Message text written by INTERNET:port-charles@lists.xmission.com

> However, after
>yesterday's episode w/Laura skating around whether she was "raped" by
>Luke & saying they just had one bad nite while they were falling in
>love....where in God's name did THAT come from????

thank god i'm not the only one who was asking myself that question!

>IMHO, I think GH is
>trying to answer up to the the "seduction scene" (which years ago,
>that's what GH called it) versus the concept of it being rape. =


i was just sitting there staring at the screen saying, "no...don't do
this...
you were doing so well, and NOW you're going to back-pedal from
admitting it was rape back to portraying it as a seduction?!?  NOOOOO!"
and then i calmed myself down and decided that, bizarre as that scene
was, i REALLY don't think they'd be dumb enough to go that route now.
it was one thing to call date rape seduction back then, and quite another=

now...so i'm convinced laura has a LONG way to go in this story line,
but she WILL come around to acknowledging that "one bad night"
(puh-LEEZE!) for what it was.

>Also, I
>think Laura is just blocking it out & never really dealt
>w/it........This is my opinion only....but can't you just see Audrey,
>Liz & Laura in the rape meetings???

laura reminded me a lot of audrey in that scene.  wouldn't it be somethin=
g
if lizzie was the one to make them both open their eyes about their own
experiences and accept them for what they were?  i'm really impressed
with how guza and team are using the teenagers these days--SUCH a
change from the high school hell we were put through before!  :)

by the way (not that i'm complaining...) did i completely miss sarah's =

departure?  i knew she was off the show...but did they ever explain her
disappearance on-air, or did she just join simone, tommy, gina, and
for that matter, ruby and lila, in the black hole of port charles?

julie





- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:07:13 EDT
From: <BeccaC83@aol.com>
Subject: Re: GH/PC: I can't believe I'm saying this......

In a message dated 98-06-02 12:19:07 EDT, you write:

<< by the way (not that i'm complaining...) did i completely miss sarah's 
 departure?  i knew she was off the show...but did they ever explain her
 disappearance on-air, or did she just join simone, tommy, gina, and
 for that matter, ruby and lila, in the black hole of port charles? >>
 
I think that Sarah may be on once more this Thursday, and she'll tell Audrey
that she's going to Bosnia to visit her parents...I could be wrong on this
one, but I definately remember reading that somewhere.

On another note, I've never seen any letters about Port Charles.  I don't know
if you just don't talk about it or if just no one's said anything recently.
But, I was wondering, what do you all think about Friday's episode with that
conversation between Mac and Kevin.  When Mac picked up the phone, the camera
went to Kevin, but he was on the opposite side of the room! Did anyone else
notice this?  I'm thinking that it might have been a mirror....but who know's
right?  Maybe it's Ryan again....I mean that would explain the murders.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue,  2 Jun 1998 19:00:49, -0500
From: CJPV06C@prodigy.com (MR STEPHEN J CLEGG)
Subject: GH/PC: GH and PC Mac and Kevin

Yes, I have noticed that to about Mac and Kevin. SOD said Ryan will 
not come back but it would be fan to see Ryan bacjk like on GH. I 
always enjoyed Kevin and Ryan. Will I'm a 14 year old male who loves 
GH and PC only. I watched GH for almo0st seven years.

Stephen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 23:32:49 -0700
From: Taiyin <sigmund@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: GH/PC: I can't believe I'm saying this.....

At 10:31 AM 6/2/98 -0400, Danielle Graham wrote:
>
>Anyway, can we say LUCY????? 

I don't think it's the same thing at ALL, though.  Lucy went through round
after round after round of being the town laughing stock and joke.  Every
time she'd almost gain some semblance of respectability, something would
happen (usually a dumb plan of her own making) and she'd be the town
laughing stock again.

There was NOTHING quick about Lucy's redemption (and according to the
conversation over on K&L "redeemed" is not necessarily the word fans use to
describe her still... especially not these days).  Hell, if she and Kevin
hadn't moved to PC, IMO she is STILL not redeemed, according to many
esteemed (and frequently hypocritical) residents of Port Chuck.

Besides, whatever Lucy did, she didn't try to undercut profits from an AIDS
benefit (yes, I know I harp on that one, but for me that escapade will
ALWAYS be who Katherine Bell is, and IMO they NEVER did an honest job of
explaining or exploring her 'redemption' and it happened WAY too fast to be
even remotely believable).

>librarian who was working w/Kevin (Terry's Kevin) to try & kill
>Terry????? Also, Frisco & the bunch did like her at all! And then
>marrying Alan for the $$$$? She's come along way. So, give Kat a lil'
>bit of a break, huh?

Lucy paid for her mistakes over and over and over again.  And usually in
extremely painful ways.  Three miscarriages and BJ were awfully extreme
prices to pay for her screw ups -- especially since she never got away with
anything she ever did before that, anyway.  Katherine was never held up to
the kind of public ridicule, or primal debasement that Lucy was.

It's kind of like Felicia said to Katherine at Kat's bday party back in
1994 (just before Lois jumped out of the cake):  "Lucy's almost earned her
right to snoop."

IMO, Katherine never paid her dues.  And they went from her blackmailing
Ned and being Damian's sidekick (which was, IMO, far more entertaining than
anything she's had to do since then), to her being a saint.  That makes me
bonkers.

Aside from the fact that I think she was INFINITELY less interesting as a
good guy than she was as a bad guy, I think, for many of us, we really
needed to see her pay (in some way or another) for the terrible things she
did in order for us to have any desire to see her eventually win.

IMO, it's true with all characters.  I think Carly is the best example on
the canvas right now.  I mean, no matter what she has done in the past, I
don't think most of us want to see her lose Michael (a few of us do, but I
think that's an extreme minority).  Because the audience was given access
to what Carly went through, we could see something in her to empathize (or
at least pity) in her.  And eventually that made it possible to get past
some of the more despicable things she'd done in the past.

She's not totally sympathetic, by any stretch.  Neither is Lucy.  And, IMO,
that is at least half of what makes them two of my favorite female
characters to watch.  They are highly complicated and multi-layered.
Katherine wasn't.  They went from her being a bad guy (a sometimes annoying
and two dimensional one, though usually not too bad), to being a good guy.
There was no gray area, no texture, no conflict, no nothing.

That doesn't make for convincing redemption.  It didn't feel like she
earned it.  It felt like it was handed to her, and that made me dislike her
all the more -- especially as she trashed Lucy along the way after we'd
seen Lucy suffer (in one way or another) for YEARS.  

I was a Mary Beth Evans fan back on Days.  I loved Patch and Kayla.  But
Katherine and Stefan were not the same thing.  No matter how much chemistry
two actors have together, it's not just the actors that have chemistry --
it's the characters.  And I never saw any chemistry between Katherine and
Stefan, even though I spent years seeing PLENTY of it between Steve and Kayla.

I liked Katherine as a character MUCH more (on her own) than I liked Kayla
- -- she was more complex, darker, more capable of being unpredictable, more
nefarious, more dramatic, less perfect, etc.  It was the pairing with
Stefan that felt like a cheap stunt at recapturing 'days' gone by, and
snagging former Days fans at the expense of more compelling drama (Stefan's
relationships with both Laura and Bobbie are much more complex and
dangerous and fascinating to watch, IMO).

It just felt very contrived and insulting from the moment he shot her.  The
first time scenes between them felt truly intense and awesome were the
night she died when she was flipping out over Laura.  THAT was amazing --
especially since I've NEVER felt that way about those two characters before.

BUT because I've seen the actors pull off the incredible before, it wasn't
a total surprise.

Taiyin
"I was thinking about us in the kitchen."
- --"Oh Lucy, the kitchen is far too dangerous a place, 
     there are all those free-standing appliances."
	--Lucy and Kevin, "GH"

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geri Fosseen <living-with-lyme@rocketmail.com>
Subject: GH/PC: Just a thought...

Okay, I know I'm twisted, but can anyone else picture Eve and Bobbi
starting a support group entitled, "Health Care Professionals Who Used
to Be Hookers"????  Personally, if there are two in one hospital, I'm
a little scared!! LOL!!  Might be fun to see who would join the group
though...hmmmm...Chris was broke and desperate, maybe he was out on
Sunset Blvd. selling his cute little self...and ya' know, I've always
thought there was more to Amy Vining than we knew.....

Just my own little twisted musing....





==
Take Care...Geri
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
%~}"I believe I am growing skeptical of cynicism."{~%
                                   --Chuck Lorre
%~}"Do not think you are on the right path just because
      it is well-beaten."{~%       --Unknown
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  3 Jun 1998 21:10:47, -0500
From: CJPV06C@prodigy.com (MR STEPHEN J CLEGG)
Subject: GH/PC: Just a thought...

Geri,
       Well I like your twisted idea.

Stephen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:06:17 -0400 
From: Danielle Graham <DGraham@bn.com>
Subject: GH/PC: Lucky & Liz

Okay, am I the only one wondering how, when Lucky was about 10 or so, he
could be on his own & hide from killers, but he couldn't tell that
someone was in his dad's bar by listening by the door. That irritated
the hell outta me. Also, Emily, the way she keeps holding her neck,
HELLO, we know already, stop over acting already. But I must say someone
said last week or so about Nik w/Emily, I think that would be kinda
good. She was looking a bit more grown up yesterday at Katherine's
memorial service. And w/that, does anyone else think Helena has
Katherine & she's still alive....ala Leslie?

Danielle


- -

------------------------------

End of port-charles-digest V1 #49
*********************************