From: Bill Vance Subject: Christians and Guns (fwd) Date: 31 Aug 2002 23:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Some good ammo for some of our Christian bretheran..... Bill -------------------- begin forwarded message from che -------------------- ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:19 AM http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/stagnaro4.html Christians and Guns by Carlo Stagnaro "Shoot, shoot, shoot," Father Giorgio Giorgi said from the pulpit of his church in Retorbido, near Pavia, Italy, during a sermon about a year ago. These words stirred up trouble, because a Roman Catholic priest has hardly dared to speak in such a way in the last few decades. Yet Father Giorgi merely said that every man, being created in the image of God, has the right to life and thus the right to defend life. "[Confronted by a criminal] I might let him kill me - he added. Indeed, if I killed a bandit, I should presume to send him to Hell, because he's not in the Grace of God. So it would be better for me to die, because, theoretically, I should always be in the Grace of God, given my job. But the father of a family is not a priest. He has the right, and before it the duty, to defend his wife, his children, and his property." Perhaps, rather than turning the other cheek, one should close an eye and aim well? Most ecclesiastical authorities have declined to point out this line of argument; for whatever reason, they have been reading the Holy Bible from a pacifist's, coward's, weakling's point of view. Yet, it should be clear that embracing gun control implies the denial of the basic principle of individual responsibility. "The problem is not six-shooters; the problem is sinners. Eliminating guns won't solve that problem.. The proximate (civil) solution to gun-related violence is stiffer (biblical) penalties for harming humans and property - whether by guns, knives, axes, spray paint, or computers. The ultimate solution to gun-related violence is the transformation of individuals by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.... The ironic solution of liberals is to lock up the guns and liberate the criminals after a mere wrist slap," wrote Andrew Sandlin in The Christian Statesman, Vol. 140, No. 1. In reality, while inviting people to love and mercy, Jesus never said that individuals have no right to defend themselves. Even less did he say they should not defend their feebler brothers when such are in danger. A person might decide to offer no resistance to aggression if he risks only his own life, but he can't shirk the moral duty to help others. As Jeff Snyder has written, "Although difficult for modern men to fathom, it was once widely believed that life was a gift from God, that to not defend that life when offered violence was to hold God's gift in contempt, to be a coward and to breach one's duty to one's community." (Nation of Cowards, Accurate Press, 2001, page 16.) The belief is deeply shared that a Christian should always stand and be ready to sacrifice, and that guns are evil means that should never be used nor owned. However, a gun is merely an object. It has no soul, no brain, and no wishes. It does nothing, but its owner does. An evil person will use his guns to do evil, and a good person will use his guns to defend himself and others. It is people who are good or evil, not guns. Of course, those who deny this implicitly affirm that guns are magical things with the power to change people's mind. That is obviously an absurdity. In any case, many Christians like to cite Jesus' words: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also" (Matthew 5: 38-39.) According to many researchers and theologians, Jesus intends to condemn useless or exaggerated violence, not the use of lethal force against aggression. Thus, rather than contradicting the words of the Holy Scriptures, Jesus is cautioning his disciples not to misunderstand the Bible. In fact, a few lines before this statement, Christ says, "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5: 19.) Jesus says love is better than hatred, and that vengeance can never be the solution. On the other hand, He doesn't say self-defence is bad. This would lead to the rule of the stronger over the weaker, of the bully over the gentle person. And, while inviting us to turn the other cheek, He doesn't invite us to turn the other's cheek, which precisely is the effect of gun-control laws. Christ suggests to his followers that they arm themselves: "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Luke 22: 36.) Later, as he is taken away, Jesus rebukes Peter, who has just cut the ear of an aggressor: "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?" (Matthew 26: 52-54) - from which we can see that some of the Apostles (two of them) were armed. As Larry Pratt notes, "While Christ told Peter to 'put your sword in its place,' He clearly did not say get rid of it forever. That would have contradicted what He had told the disciples only hours before. Peter's sword was to protect his own mortal life from danger. His sword was not needed to protect the Creator of the universe and the King of kings" ("What Does The Bible Say About Gun Control?", in Chalcedon Report). Years after the Death and Resurrection of Jesus, Paul writes to Timothy: "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Timothy 5:8). "This passage applies to our subject because it would be absurd to buy a house, furnish it with food and facilities for one's family, and then refuse to install locks and provide the means to protect the family and the property," Mr. Pratt wrote. This also recalls another quote from the Bible: "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft" (Exodus 22: 2-3.) He who steals into another's home bears the responsibility of his criminal action. Self-defence is not a crime. Under the heading "Unjust aggressor," the Dizionario ecclesiastico ("Ecclesiastic dictionary", UTET, 1959) derives the following statement from Thomas Aquinas: "Without doubt one is allowed to resist against the unjust aggressor to one's life, one's goods or one's physical integrity; sometimes, even 'til the aggressor's death... In fact, this act is aimed at preserving one's life or one's goods and to make the aggressor powerless. Thus, it is a good act, which is the right of the victim." There are three conditions under which legitimate self-defence must lie: "That he who is the target of the force is an aggressor and an unjust aggressor... That the object of the defence is an important good, such as the life, physical integrity or worthy goods... [and] That defensive violence is proportionate to aggression." Under these conditions, "One is also allowed (not required) to kill other people's unjust aggressor." On these grounds, even a great Catholic author, J.R.R. Tolkien agrees: "The aggressors are themselves primarily to blame for the evil deeds that proceed from their original violation of justice and the passions that their own wickedness must naturally (by their standards) have been expected to arose. They at any rate have no right to demand that their victims when assaulted should not demand an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth" (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1995, p. 243.) In his well-known novel, The Lord of the Rings, the evil Sauron requires of free peoples that "men shall bear no weapons," otherwise he will assault them (The Lord of the Rings, 2001, p. 872.) According to George Crocker "The Word of God does allow and encourage self-defence. In the Scriptures we do not find God encouraging His people to be either "hawks" or "doves" when dealing with self-defence. They are just to be reasonable." ("Self Defence Or Turn The Other Cheek?"). Mr. Crocker concludes his article quoting Dr. A. T. Robertson: "Jesus protested when smitten on the cheek (John 18:22). And Jesus denounced the Pharisees (Matt 23) and fought the devil always. The language of Jesus is bold and picturesque and is not to be pressed too literally. Paradoxes startle and make us think. We are expected to fill in the other side of the picture.. Aggressive or offensive war by nations is also condemned, but not necessarily defensive war or defence against robbery and murder." (A.T. Robertson. Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. I, p. 48). Of course, the religion would not be moral, in a deep sense, which required its followers to passively suffer aggressive violence. Actually, rather than Christian, this approach is typical of post-Christian thought, which avoids weighty concepts, including those of individual responsibility or sin. "The far most important principle that was pulled away from Christian policy is the theory of sin. This is not an uninteresting topic of moral theology; rather, it is the precious premise of a realistic and keen understanding of human nature and of its free, everlasting moving to and from Good and Evil," the late political scientist Gianfranco Miglio said in 1946. Many years later, Prof. Miglio added: "I can't suffer, or understand, the 'social Catholics'. They seem to teach God how He should have made humans. They don't admit men's evilness: to them, the culprit is 'the society'.. They hate America, the free-market, the whole West, that has been created by Christianity." Indeed, among Christians' greatest virtues there is realism; they well understand that men may freely choose to do evil, and even find it sweet. Gun-control laws disarm all men, but only an ingenuous person fools himself into believing that criminals will be law-abiding! Such measures may make crime more difficult to perpetrate, but they make self-defence nearly impossible. "Consider the situation of a mother in a rough Los Angeles neighborhood, moments after an escaped psychopathic murderer has broken into her house," suggests David B. Kopel. "The woman has good reason to fear that the intruder is about to slaughter her three children. If she does not shoot him with her .38 special, the children will be dead before the police arrive. Is the woman's moral obligation to murmur "violence engenders violence," and keep her handgun in the drawer while her children die? Or is the mother's moral duty to save her children, and shoot the intruder?" ("Does God Believe In Gun Control?") Further, gun-control is the key to tyranny, because a dicator would find virtually no resistance if the people are unarmed. With regard to the motto "Obey God, Serve Mankind, Oppose Tyranny," Daniel New noted that "A motto can, on occasion, capture a whole philosophy of life, and it can stick with a young person throughout his or her life. The phrase 'Obey God' is undoubtedly the most profound part of that motto. No one can serve two masters" (Michael New: Mercenary... Or American Soldier?, p. 34.) One could hardly make an argument that God gave some people the authority to assault, and some others the duty to be assaulted. Indeed, He gave men the gifts of conscience and intelligence, so that they may decide if an action is good or worthy. So it is very hard to justify, from a Christian point of view, a law whose prime effect is to disarm honest people. One may believe banning guns is a good thing, and campaign for gun control; nobody has the right to do it in the name of God. August 30, 2002 Carlo Stagnaro [send him mail] co-edits the libertarian magazine "Enclave" and edited the book "Waco. Una strage di stato americana." Here's his website. -------------------- end forwarded message from che -------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: GOAL ALERT (fwd) Date: 05 Sep 2002 14:01:13 -0700 (PDT) For my fellow inmates, here in the Web Footed Peoples Idiotic Republic of Washatonia.....:-) (Or anyone else who cares, as well). Bill -------------------- begin forwarded message from Joe Waldron ------------------- The following notice was lifted off of a flyer for the Pam Roach Campaign. As many of you know, Pam is the leading proponent of your right to keep and bear arms in the state Senate. She is facing a major challenge this year from Democrat challenger Yvonne Ward. Ms. Ward is a trial lawyer and has been receiving contributions from lawyers all across the state. It appears Pam is the #1 target of Senate Democrats this year. They have pulled out all the stops. One good example, I heard in Spokane last month (of all places, all the way across the state), is that Pam is anti-union, despite the fact that she has been endorsed not only by law enforcement officers and firefighters in her district, but has endorsements from other unions in her district as well. Who knows Pam better if not the constituents in her own district? It is imperative we send Pam back to Olympia where she can continue her work for the law abiding gun owners of Washington. Mixing a little fun with politics, Pam is conducting a trapshoot fund raiser in Sumner next Tuesday evening. Isn't keeping this champion of gun rights in Olympia worth the price of a box of shotshells or two? Regards, Joe Waldron RE-ELECT SENATOR PAM ROACH ( R ) 31st District Meet Senator PAM ROACH and Special Guest, NRA Representative BRIAN JUDY Shoot a Round of Trap -- Donation - $10.00 Proceeds Support Pam Roach Refreshments: BBQ When: 6:30-8:30 September 10, 2002 Where: Sumner Sportsmen's Association 15711 96th St. E. Sumner, WA 98372 Phone: 253-848-9519 Support Someone that Protects Your Second Amendment RSVP: Jim Williams 253-841-7113 Contact Pam Roach to help: 253-891-2424 - www.pamroach.com " Yes, I support Pam in her re-election to the State Senate and will be attending. I would like to reserve ___ seats. " Yes, I support Pam, but cannot attend. Please accept my donation in the amount of $_______ Name: Email: Address: City: Zip: Phone (home): (work): Employer: Occupation: Any donation over $25.00 must include donor's name and address and donations over $100.00 must include the donor's occupation and employer. MAIL: Pam Roach PO Box 650 Auburn, WA 98071 -------------------- end forwarded message from Joe Waldron ------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: 10 Good Reasons to Ban Guns (fwd) Date: 06 Sep 2002 01:22:53 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Swftl@aol.com ----------------------- >Ten Good Reasons To Ban Guns >a satire by Bruce Gold > >1.) Guns are used in self-defense over 2 million times a year. >However, this makes the attempted crime a "non-event," which >necessarily complicates the Police investigation. Without civilian >ownership of guns, these Police investigations would not have been >compromised. Civilians should leave crime prevention to the Police, >who are properly equipped to investigate following the crime's >completion. > >2.) Some .004 % (4/1000 of 1%) of guns are used in crime each year. >This is way too high. All guns should be banned > >3.) Guns are unnecessary. In 98% of civilian gun defenses, no shot is >fired. If you are not going to fire a shot, you clearly don't need a >gun. This proves that the guns are unnecessary. Banning guns will >prevent these unnecessary defenses. > >4.) Guns cause criminal migration. In tough gun-law Washington, D.C., >violent crime rates are very high. This high crime rate is caused by >the migration of criminals from gun havens like Virginia. This >migration is caused by the criminal's cowardly avoidance of armed >householders and concealed-carry civilians. This criminal migration is >detrimental to helpless unarmed citizens in no-gun areas and must be >stopped. Guns should be banned everywhere. > >5.) Most gun crimes are committed by inner city gangs and drug >dealers. These relatively small and geographically restricted groups >consistently commit the majority of gun crimes, which usually peak as >turf wars erupt over Drug War changes. The best way to prevent this is >by denying guns to all law abiding people everywhere. > >6.) No woman needs to protect herself from rape, assault or murder. >The Police will protect women by investigating the crime after the >fact. Remember, Police paperwork is all the protection anyone really >needs. > >7.) Guns owners are disrespectful of authority. Good citizens should >completely rely on the authorities. A failure to do so is an >invariable sign of improper and overly independent attitudes. Failure >to completely and absolutely trust and depend on the authorities is >excessive democracy and sends a bad message to children. > >8.) Guns owners engaging in self-defense are taking the law into their >own hands. This is wrong. Only the Police and Criminals have the right >to take the law into their own hands. It should be kept out of the >hands of citizens. > >9.) Children and young people should remain ignorant about guns. Real >guns and real gun knowledge dissipate the fantasies created by violent >video games and TV. Ignorance, once lost, can never be restored and >needs to be protected. Not to mention the lost sales of all the >violent movies, TV shows, video games, etc! > >10.)Guns reduce people's reliance on the Police and Government. This >fosters a mistaken belief in "rights". No person has the right to >question authority. No person should be less than 100% dependent on >authority. This is fundamental to social order. Banning guns will help >to establish the Order the authorities want. This is good. > > >Gun Control - Simple Solutions for Simple Minds ----------------------- end forwarded message from Swftl@aol.com ----------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: From a friend in Britain (fwd) Date: 07 Sep 2002 16:31:33 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Charles Riggs --------------------- "There is agitation afoot in the UK for further restrictions on the use of air weapons. The BBC is carrying its' own propaganda and survey. Your vote would be appreciated: http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/vote/default.stm Your may like to pass this on to your friends on other lists." Charles Riggs Gunsite 1991 - DVC! "Fight Crime - Be armed - Fight back!" GOA-NRA-SAF ********************************* The Kentucky IDPA Studies Group: http://www.kyidpa.org ********************************* A parable for our times: http://www.chazrigz.net ********************************* ----------------------- end forwarded message from Charles Riggs --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Something worth seeing (fwd) Date: 12 Sep 2002 10:48:12 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Charles Riggs --------------------- Thought you might enjoy this as much as I did, especially considering this day. http://beetlebailey.com/images/flag.swf Charles Riggs Gunsite 1991 - DVC! "Fight Crime - Be armed - Fight back!" GOA-NRA-SAF ********************************* The Kentucky IDPA Studies Group: http://www.kyidpa.org ********************************* A parable for our times: http://www.chazrigz.net ********************************* ----------------------- end forwarded message from Charles Riggs --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Illegal immigrants tied to eight major wildfires (fwd) Date: 13 Sep 2002 00:41:19 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Rich Martin, Editor Slick eZine ----------------------- 9/10/2002 TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) - Illegal immigrants crossing into the United States in southern Arizona are suspected of causing eight major wildfires this year that have cost taxpayers $5.1 million to fight. In an already busy fire season, the fires charred 68,413 acres - about 108 square miles - according to an Arizona Daily Star analysis. Only fires bigger than 100 acres were included in the analysis, and officials said immigrants caused many smaller blazes that were quickly controlled. Fire officials haven't identified suspects in the eight fires but said physical evidence strongly points to immigrants at the border crossings, the paper said. Food containers, juice cans and water bottles from Mexico were found at many of the fires' starting points, nearly all of which were along popular smuggling routes rarely used by legal visitors. In some cases, the blazes were traced to campfires that officials believe border crossers used for cooking or warmth and got out of control. ----------------------- end forwarded message from Rich Martin, Editor Slick eZine ----------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: SRA - Arm The Pilots: Action Needed ASAP. (fwd) Date: 16 Sep 2002 18:02:37 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- FYI - Lets not let this die of old age in some dark corner on the Hill. Bush Backpedaling on Arming Pilots! By Airline Pilots' Security Alliance - Sun, 15 Sep 2002 http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com/archive.php?aid=656 Congress has shown that it SOLIDLY SUPPORTS ARMING PILOTS but the administration is still listening to the high-salary airline CEO's from the Air Transport Association (ATA). We need to let the White House know that the American People have a STRONG opinion on the matter! Call the White House NOW at 202/456-1111 Tell the Bush Administration that it is RECKLESS AND IRRESPONS- IBLE TO contemplate BLOWING A CIVILIAN AIRLINER OUT OF THE SKY WITH SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILES while at the same time WORKING COVERTLY WITH THE ATA TO KEEP AIRLINE PILOTS FROM DEFENDING THEIR PASSENGERS WITH FIREARMS! Email the Administration at (president@whitehouse.gov.) Tell the President that you want him to PUBLICLY SUPPORT a STRONG PROGRAM FOR ARMING PILOTS, not a weak, limited "test" program that will offer zero deterrent to terrorists that would use airliners to attack our country. This is NOT the time to quit; this fight can and will be won if you will STAY WITH US as you have always done. Thank you! -------------------- MORE URGENT ASSISTANCE NEEDED PASS THIS ALERT ALONG TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW! Despite our decisive victory in the Senate (87-6 in favor of armed pilots), the legislative scene is complicated and the fight is not over! WE NEED TO THE BILL PASSED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENT- ATIVES (HR4635) TO A VOTE ON THE SENATE FLOOR. Senator Tom Daschle can get this done! Please call Senator Daschle him what YOU think! Simply dial 202/224-2321 Ask for Clint Hyfield at Senator Daschle's office. Tell Mr. Hyfield that YOU WANT SENATOR DASCHLE TO BRING HR4635 TO A VOTE BEFORE THE FULL SENATE. Tell him that Senator Daschle should take advantage of this opport- unity to SHOW NATIONAL LEADERSHIP ON AN ISSUE SUPPORTED BY A HUGE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS. YOU have tremendous influence! YOU can make a HUGE difference. THANK YOU for your support! Related Links: Airline Pilots' Security Alliance Past articles Printable versio -------------------------------------------------- The PILOT is the last & final line of defense. Wake up & smell reality - ARM them or wait for a news report of the next "WTC" disaster! -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- end forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Neil Dickey Subject: All in the name of safety Date: 19 Sep 2002 15:54:55 -0500 (CDT) Have a look at this: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/4108036.htm If a terrorist shows up on an aircraft we can do something about it, but what happens when the BadGuys(TM) are wearing badges? --ND - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Wash. DC "AW-Ban Awareness Press Conference" (fwd) Date: 20 Sep 2002 17:25:34 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from CJE --------------------- Anyone from the DC area care to attend this and enlighten the press? Cliff ************************************ Groups to Announce Support for Assault Weapsons Ban Renewal U.S. Newswire 19 Sep 14:14 Law Enforcement Groups to Announce Support for Reauthorizing Federal Assault Weapons Ban; Ban Will Expire in 2004 To: National Desk Contact: Amy Stilwell of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, 202-898-0792 News Advisory: Major law enforcement groups will gather in the nation's capital on Monday, September 23, to express their strong support for the renewal of the federal Assault Weapons Ban, which is scheduled to expire in September 2004, unless Congress passes legislation to renew it. The Assault Weapons Ban was passed as part of the 1994 Crime Bill. The law required domestic manufacturers to stop production of semiautomatic assault weapons, such as UZIs and AK-47s, and ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds except for military or police use. Many Americans do not know that the Assault Weapons ban will expire in 2004, and that the federal lawmakers elected to Congress this November will decide whether this life-saving law remains in effect. Assault weapons like AK-47s pose a serious threat to our communities and to our public safety officials. The clock is ticking and we must act now to ensure that this legislation is not allowed to expire. Join leaders of our national law enforcement organizations to learn how the federal Assault Weapons Ban will affect our communities and neighborhoods if it is allowed to expire in September 2004, and to hear their united voice in support of reauthorizing this critical law. WHAT: Press conference to raise awareness that the federal Assault Weapons Ban will expire in September 2004 and to highlight law enforcement's support for the law. WHO: 1. Steve Sposato - (His wife, Jody was murdered with an assault weapon in a San Francisco office building massacre in 1993.) 2. Leaders of National Law Enforcement Organizations Major Cities Chiefs Association National Association of Police Organizations Police Foundation National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives Hispanic American Police Command Officers Association International Brotherhood of Police Officers National Association of School Resource Officers WHERE: J.W. Marriott, 14th Ave and Pennsylvania, Washington DC The Dirksen Room -- Enter the lobby, proceed down one flight of stairs and the room is on the left. WHEN: Monday, September 23, 11:30 a.m. (Room opens to accredited press at 11. Cameras should be set by 11:20.) http://www.usnewswire.com ----------------------- end forwarded message from CJE --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: SRA - Poll: Arming Pilots. (fwd) Date: 27 Sep 2002 00:49:22 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- FYI (www.gunsafe.org) Poll:- Would it make flying safer? http://www.vote.com/vote/49348119/index.phtml?cat=4075633 ----------------------- end forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Tax-Exempt Groups Freed From Ad Ban (fwd) Date: 28 Sep 2002 14:35:35 -0700 (PDT) It looks like all anyone has to do, is call themselves, "Republicans", (or "Wingnuts", for that matter), "For Public Issue Education", or some such, and they're home free. Bill ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Bill Phillips --------------------- Federal election officials have narrowed the range of interest groups affected by political ad restrictions in the nation's new campaign finance law. .... http://apnews.excite.com/article/20020927/D7MAD5A80.html ----------------------- end forwarded message from Bill Phillips --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: ENDING THE MOCKERY OF THE JURY SYSTEM (fwd) Date: 29 Sep 2002 17:31:22 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from David J Lindstedt ----------------------- J.A.I.L. News Journal _____________________________________________________ Los Angeles, California September 28, 2002 Ending The Mockery Of The Jury System "Opponents say the measure would cripple the legal system." It's high time, after years of the legal system crippling the people! Our thanks to Dave Nevers, dmnevers@attbi.com for sending the below article to J.A.I.L. Legal uproar over possible S.D. jury rule September 23, 2002 BY JOE KAFKA http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-ignore23.html PIERRE, S.D.--A measure on the South Dakota ballot this November would allow defendants to tell juries they can disregard a law if they don't like it--a prospect that has the legal profession aghast. Amendment A would let people accused of crimes argue that a law should not apply to their circumstances or that it has no merit. The practice is known as jury nullification. The proposed amendment to the South Dakota Constitution was put on the ballot after more than 34,000 signatures were gathered by a group that includes at least one advocate of legalizing marijuana use. The idea could also appeal to the libertarian right, tax protesters, gun owners and abortion foes. Opponents say the measure would cripple the legal system. ''It is very offensive to those of us who believe in the constitutional form of government and common law,'' said Robert Miller, a former chief justice of the state Supreme Court. Miller said the measure may be unconstitutional. ''I think it has a lot of appeal for the small segment of our population that has no trust for government and especially no trust for courts and lawyers,'' he said. Jury nullification is not a new concept. Over the years, juries refused to convict people who harbored runaway slaves before the Civil War, sold alcohol during Prohibition or resisted the draft during the Vietnam War. But according to legal experts, no state has a statute allowing jury nullification. At least three states--Indiana, Maryland and Georgia--say in their constitutions that juries can judge both the law and the facts. But none of those states makes use of the practice, which fell into disfavor after an 1895 U.S. Supreme Court decision that frowned on jury nullification. Among those who helped get the measure on the ballot in South Dakota is Bob Newland, a Libertarian candidate for attorney general who favors marijuana legalization. AP ------- Open letter to Robert Miller, a former chief justice of the state Supreme Court, regarding Amendment A (South Dakota) (Quoting Robert Miller, speaking of Amendment A): ''It is very offensive to those of us who believe in the constitutional form of government and common law,'' said Robert Miller, a former chief justice of the state Supreme Court. Quite the contrary, Mr. Miller. Jury nullification goes to the heart of constitutional government and common law. As many people realize today, we no longer have government based on the Constitution and common law. That's exactly why this country is headed deeper and deeper into a totalitarian regime. This fact is self-evident by the way society has been taken over in America by the usurping force in power, operating under the guise of government. Mr. Miller, as a former chief justice of the state supreme court (I presume of South Dakota), are the people expected to look to you as a spokesman for constitutional government? Considering the track record of our court system over the past several years, I hardly think so. J.A.I.L. (Judicial Accountability Initiative Law) has been created because we no longer have constitutional government, thanks to the tyranny coming from our judiciary. From personal experience, I can say that Due Process of Law no longer exists in practice when seeking redress of grievances in our courts. I have learned this over a period of eighteen years, dealing with courts at all levels, both state and federal. Mr. Miller, you say ''I think it has a lot of appeal for the small segment of our population that has no trust for government and especially no trust for courts and lawyers.'' The only part of that sentence that is NOT true is the word "small." Mr. Miller, you're going to have to realize the fact that it's quite a LARGE segment of our population, and growing, that has no trust for government, and especially the courts and lawyers. There are a number of national organizations that have developed in recent years that attest to that fact. And the distrust of government is based on empirical evidence, accumulated over the years by this LARGE segment of population who have become victims of judicial tyranny. I highly recommend that you read the information on www.jail4judges.org. Mr. Miller, I'm not referring to mere whining and complaining, but to evidence in writing forming a clear record for anyone to see of what the courts have done to destroy what the people hold dear-- our LIBERTY. Yes, Mr. Miller, instead of the rhetoric put out by you and others responsible for destroying the American people, the people have a written record that cannot be refuted of their destruction at the hands of our judicial system. We have names, dates, places, material facts and specific references that testify to the truth of the "long train of abuses and usurpations [that has] reduced [our liberty] under absolute despotism." (See the Declaration of Independence). This is not some strange phenomenon, Mr. Miller. Our founding fathers suspected this despotism would develop in time and they instructed the people what to do in that event. They said it is not only the right of the people, but it is their DUTY "to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." And that certainly does not mean "Homeland Security" created and run by the abusers of our security. As you say, Mr. Miller "Jury nullification is not a new concept." However, as you say also, states do not follow the practice and it has fallen into disfavor by the courts. What this boils down to is, are the people sovereign and allowed to exercise their right to judge both the law and the facts, or have the courts usurped the power of the sovereign people, dictating to them as if they were slaves? The system has coerced a concocted "slavery" onto the people through fraud and deception which invalidates the scheme. This country has been founded upon a free people, based on the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. Although it has taken a long time, the people (now the posterity) have become damaged enough by judicial tyranny to finally make them realize that, for the sake of survival of freedom, justice, and liberty, we MUST take steps necessary to enforce our God-given inherent rights, and restrict government to its rightful purpose as protectors of our rights rather than destroyers of them as it has become. Amendment A in South Dakota is one such step. Yes, Mr. Miller, this has become a war in this country between the people and the ruling tyrants. We have come full circle from what the conditions were when the Declaration of Independence was established. Government, and particularly the final decisionmakers (the judiciary) must be held accountable directly to the people under constitutional principles. This must be done through the use of the jury system which must remain autonomous and independent of government. As Thomas Jefferson stated "I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution." Juries controlled by prosecutors and judges defeats its purpose. Juries have become mockeries of the purpose for which they were established. The people realize that we must put an end to this mockery of the jury system, and right now, Amendment A is only a start toward that goal. Mr. Miller, the people are sick and tired of being the brunt of tyrannical derision-- of insulting, contemptible, and impertinent imitation of truth. Amendment A in South Dakota is just one means of putting an end to this insolence. We've had enough! -Barbie- victoryusa@jail4judges.org Ron Branson Author/Founder J.A.I.L. is an acronym for Judicial Accountability Initiative Law JAIL's very informative website is found at www.jail4judges.org JAIL proposes a unique new addition to our form of government. JAIL is powerful! JAIL is dynamic! JAIL is America's ONLY hope! JAIL is spreading across America like a fast moving wildfire! JAIL is making inroads into Congress for federal accountability! JAIL may be supported at P.O. Box 207, N. Hollywood, CA 91603 To subscribe or be removed: add-remove-jail@mindspring.com E-Groups sign on at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jail4judges/join Open forum to make your voice heard JAIL-SoundOff@egroups.com Ask not what J.A.I.L. can do for me, but ask what I can do for J.A.I.L. "..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." - Samuel Adams "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -- Henry David Thoreau <>< ----------------------- end forwarded message from David J Lindstedt ----------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Boston cried more than "uncle" (fwd) Date: 30 Sep 2002 17:25:09 -0700 (PDT) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from C. D. Tavares --------------------- Yesterday at the Gun Rights Policy Conference, Gary Mehalik of NSSF dropped one on me that I don't believe I've ever seen reported in the pro-gun press, much less the general media. He talked about how Mumbles Menino's suit against the gun industry dragged to a halt after three years. It seems that after a couple years of "discovery" against the gun industry, the Boston lawyers were frustrated by being unable find one single piece of evidence showing that manufacturers ever actually did market their firearms in ways to promote criminal trade. To the converse, they found a lot of evidence of industry initiatives to thwart illegal firearms traffic. At this point, the lawyers were reduced to slinking back in front of the judge and begging to be let off the hook for their own lawsuit. Why? Because when their discovery period was done, the industry got to have their own discovery period... and Mumbles didn't dare give the gun manufacturers the chance to poke around in his city's dirty laundry. But he didn't get away free. As the price of letting Boston off the hook, the industry lawyers forced Menino to include some very specific language in his final announcement admitting that Boston had found absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the industry. The actual credits go on for a page or two, and include language such as: "The City acknowledges that the members of the industry and firearms trade associations are genuinely concerned with and are committed to, the safe, legal and responsible sale and use of their products." This sort of quote from Menino is great ammunition for those future letters to the Boston Globe. I imagine attorneys fighting those few other cases that have not yet faced the hour of sunrise will find it valuable as well. You can read Mumbles' entire confession at http://www.nssf.org/PDF/Boston041002.pdf -- Tavares@alum.mit.edu | http://alum.mit.edu/www/tavares | RKBA! Facts have long since been bit players in gun policy debates. The brilliance of the [mothers'] march was to banish them altogether. --JEFF TAYLOR ----------------------- end forwarded message from C. D. Tavares --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! -