From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #94 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Wednesday, March 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 094 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:15:45 -0600 (CST) From: Subject: New evidence revealed in King assassinatin (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Reuters New Media Tuesday March 24 11:07 AM EST New Evidence Revealed in King Assassination ATLANTA (Reuters) - A former FBI agent who investigated the 1968 assassination of civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. was to present on Tuesday what he claimed was evidence never before disclosed in the case. Donald Wilson, who left the FBI in 1987, was one of two agents who on April 10, 1968, impounded a white Ford Mustang belonging to James Earl Ray, who confessed to the killing but later recanted, saying the case was a conspiracy involving federal agents. Wilson said Monday he found and kept two slips of paper from the car, which was found in Atlanta's Capitol Homes housing project, that may support Ray's claim of a government conspiracy in the April 4, 1968, assassination. "This is very significant," King's son, Dexter King, told The Atlanta Constitution. "The evidence that he has will go a long way toward disputing the official story." Ray, 70, was sentenced to life in prison for killing King He has been diagnosed with liver cancer. The King family said it supports his request for a new trial. Wilson said he did not reveal the evidence earlier because he did not trust some of the investigators in the case. He said he also feared for his family. He said he contacted the King family after hearing the slain civil rights leader's wife Coretta Scott King ask Tennessee officials in 1997 to let Ray's case go to trial. Wilson, who heads a career management company, was to present the evidence to Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard because the documents were found in Atlanta and Howard has jurisdiction. ^REUTERS@ _________________________________________________________________ ________________________ ___________ Help _________________________________________________________________ Previous Story: Oscar Glory Provides Vindication for 'Titanic' Next Story: Albright Asks Vatican to Help Cuban Prisoners _________________________________________________________________ [ Index | News | World | Biz | Tech | Politic | Sport | Scoreboard | Entertain | Health ] _________________________________________________________________ Reuters Limited Questions or Comments - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 98 15:15:14 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: JPFO info (fwd) On Mar 24, Josh Amos wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I am on the JPFO's mailing list, and thought I'd pass this on to my fellow fappers as well. Josh > ****JPFO e-mail Alert!**** > > Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc. > Aaron Zelman - Executive Director > 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. > Milwaukee, WI 53207 > Ph. (414) 769-0760 Fax (414) 483-8435 > http://www.JPFO.org > email: Against-Genocide@JPFO.org > > 03/24/98 > -------- > > >This e-mail concludes our 5 part series, to show you, the JPFO >member and e-mail subscriber, what tools that JPFO has provided >to help you in destroying "gun control", and how to use them. >I sincerely urge you to MAKE TIME and read this important >information. As well, go to the links provided for additional >study. There will be another tool available in the *near* future, >but I am not at liberty to reveal this just yet. > >If you missed Part I of this series, go to: > >http://www.jpfo.org/antigen1.htm > >If you missed Part II of this series, go to: > >http://www.jpfo.org/antigen2.htm > >If you missed Part III of this series, go to: > >http://www.jpfo.org/antigen3.htm > >If you missed Part IV of this series, go to: > >http://www.jpfo.org/antigen4.htm > > >If you have studied this material before, refresh yourself with >this series, then please forward this material to someone who >could benefit from this series. Time is running out to use this >proven material. Make use of it while there is still enough >freedom left, to use it!! > >Thanks for your time, > >Chris W. Stark > >JPFO Director of Electronic Communications > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > GRAN'PA JACK TELLS HOW A JURY CAN PROTECT YOUR RIGHT > TO DEFEND YOUR LIFE > > > Gran'pa Jack #2 - "Can you get a Fair Trial in America?" > > > > >Dear JPFO Member & e-mail subscriber, > > >Imagine you are arrested for a "technical" firearms law violation >for the "crime" of trying to defend your life with a firearm. You >may face a felony conviction and jail. This tragic fate is suffered >every year by thousands of peacefull gun owners JUST LIKE YOU. > >JPFO, in conjunction with the Lawyers Second Amendment Society >has created "Can you get a fair trial in America?" Gran'pa Jack >#2 gives you a solid understanding of the power of a fully >informed jury - a jury that may keep you or your loved ones out >of jail in the future for having committed the "crime" of >self-defense. > >"Can you get a fair trial in America?" was written to educate >Americans that no jury need convict a law-abiding citizen of the >"crime" of self-defense. No matter what a judge or or prosecutor >says. > >You need to use this intellectual "firepower" regarding your >rights today, as explained in Gran'pa Jack #2. > >This sequel to "Gun Control" Kills Kids (100,000 copies in print) >is a Second Amendment double play. It not only tells the story >of the fully informed jury, but it also shows how carrying >weapons is in the public interest. > > >Action Items: > > >1) Read "Can you get a fair trial?" at once. Then give a copy to >every friend, gun club, police officer, city councl, city attorney, >district attorney, your local media.....and dont forget your >legislators. With this booklet in wide distribution, it will get >harder and harder for gun prohibitionists to use the court system >to harass and convict peacefull gun-owners like you! > > >2) Time is short. Take action today to safeguard the future of >firearms ownership. Your future, and that of your kids, is in >your hands. Please, go to http://www.jpfo.org/books.htm >and order a bundle of Gran'pa Jack booklets to give out! > > >3) To become a JPFO member, go to: http://www.jpfo.org/member.htm >There you will see a printable member application, along with >info on membership. If you wish, you can become a member using >our on-line application as well. Membership IS open to ALL Law >abiding citizens. > > >************************************************************** >Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership >Chris W. Stark - JPFO Director of Electronic Communications >2874 So. Wentworth Ave. >Milwaukee, WI 53207 >Ph. (414) 769-0760 >Fax (414) 483-8435 >e-mail: Against-Genocide@JPFO.org > >Visit our Web Page at: http://www.JPFO.org > >MEMBERSHIP IS OPEN TO ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. > >"America's Most Aggressive Defender of Firearms Ownership." >************************************************************** > TO SUBSCRIBE TO OUR E-MAIL ALERTS, send an e-mail to: > > subscribe@JPFO.org > >...and in the body of the message, type the word "subscribe". >************************************************************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:43:00 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? >March 25, 1998 > >This may be the long way around to getting to the point of WHY >Clinton is in Africa, but this is how I found out the "Why" behind >Clinton's visit to Africa. Some of what I'm writing about happened in >1997 before the Asian financial collapse. > >A number of months ago when the Oregon Legislature was in session >I discovered several bills which had been sponsored in the Oregon >Legislature which, if passed into law (as they later were), would >establish an Oregon trade office in Shanghai, China. The argument >which was being used at the Oregon Capitol by State Senator Mae Yih >and State Senator John Lim - the sponsors of these bills - was that >if Oregon opened up a trade office in Shanghai it would be easier >for Oregon businesses to make contacts in Shanghai for exporting >Oregon made goods to that city. > >It might be worth noting here that Senator Mae Yih was born in >Shanghai, China in 1928. Senator John Lim was born in South >Korea in 1935. > >A couple of months passed. I kept watch on those "trade office" >bills and reported on their progress via The Cure Network Fidonet >conference. That conference is on the Fidonet backbone if anyone >is interested. > >As time passed, and as I kept watch on these bills reporting back >to folks what was happening in the Oregon Legislature as far as these, >and other bills were concerned, I happened to notice that a new >bill had been introduced by Senator Mae Yih and Seator John Lim. > >This new revised Senate bill was not only written for the purpose >of establishing a Oregon trade office in Shanghai, China, but a >new country and NEW Oregon trade office had been added to the bill. >This new bill - Senate Bill 916 - was written so that an Oregon >trade office could be established in Africa with Oregon taxpayer >dollars. > >WHY on earth would two Oregon State Senators want to have Oregon >taxpayers pay for an Oregon trade office in Africa? This one I >couldn't figure. What I did next was to buy just about every >newspaper I could find looking for news about Africa. It took >a while. Then one day when my search was rewarded. > >I found a news report which discussed the economic standing of >various nations and regions of the world. One part of this >article stated that while various countries and regions of the >world were moving ahead economically ONE are of the world was >actually moving BACKWARD economically - Africa. > >The article related how the nations of the world had ignored >Africa as a trading partner. It also related a dismal picture >of people moving backward instead of forward toward a better >standard of living. > >When I read that the old light bulb clicked on. > >What apparently was going on was that two Senatorial Globalists >in the Oregon legislature had noted Africa's economic decline and >decided to do what they could do to make access to Africa's cheap >labor pool easier for Oregon businesses. > >Of course, the argument was ALWAYS that they wanted to open up >a trade office in Africa so Oregon companies could sell their >goods in Africa, but then we already know where jobs have gone to >when trade had opened up between the U.S. and some cheap third >world country. This was simply another screw job by two Oregon >Senators who were working to make it much easier for Oregon >businesses to move their base of operations TO Africa so as to >take advantage the dirt poor labor "pool" over there. > >Once the trade office was set up in Africa and operating, Oregon >(and U.S.) jobs would be going to Africa and inexpensively >manufactured goods would be shipped TO Oregon and the rest of >the U.S. so a few at the top of the corporate ladder can become >even fatter and more bloated as they swam in their billions of >dollars of profits. > >So now, out of the clear blue - or so it seems - Clinton takes a >sudden liking to Africa. > >Now we know why. Comrade Clinton is headed over there to create >"friendship links" between that country and America so U.S. >corporations can move EVEN MORE U.S. jobs out of this country. > >Only now, the job sucking sound is going to be coming from Africa. > >Clinton gives America the shaft once again. > > > Les Lemke > >* Origin: Stargate Oregon - North Bend, Oregon USA (1:356/3) - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:43:50 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: Fwd: [mom-l] MOM Press Release > In a message dated 98-03-24 17:54:58 EST, nox2128@montana.com writes: > > > If you would like to voice your dissent over the cancellation of this > >show, please call WGTG at: 706-492-5944. > > > > > ***************************************************************** > > >>> FOLKS, WE NEED TO CALL RADIO STATION WGTG. I heard the first >show and it was excellent. I have a great deal of respect for John >Trochmann, and I think we need to get behind him 1,000 percent. > > Thanks in advance for taking a few minutes to call WGTG to protest >their yanking Ghost Riders. > > > > ----------------- > Forwarded Message: > Subj: [mom-l] MOM Press Release > Date: 98-03-24 17:54:58 EST > From: nox2128@montana.com (Randy L. Trochmann) > Sender: owner-mom-l@logoplex.com > Reply-to: nox2128@montana.com > To: mom-l@logoplex.com > CC: piml@mars.galstar.com > > MILITIA OF MONTANA > P.O. Box 1486, Noxon, MT 59853 > 406-847-2735 Tel. > 406-847-2246 Fax > mom@logoplex.com > http://www.logoplex.com/resources/mom > > PRESS RELEASE / 03-24-98 > > The "Ghost Riders" show -- hosted by John Trochmann of the Militia of > Montana and Keith Johnsen of UAIC -- was unexpectedly yanked from the > airwaves last night by radio station WGTG, Georgia. At approximately > 11:40 pm (Eastern Time) -- 40 minutes into the scheduled broadcast -- > the Ghost Riders "lost a shoe off the horse" when the short-wave station > manager substituted easy-listening music for the regularly scheduled > program with absolutely no warning. > Later, Republic Radio was contacted by WGTG's Frantz and was instructed > that the "Ghost Riders" show was simply "too militia." > Minutes before the Ghost Rider "derailment", hosts had announced that > Daniel Hopsicker would be a guest on tomorrow night's show. Hopsicker > is the producer of an explosive two-hour video entitled, "Conspiracy: > the Secret History; Episode One: The Secret Heartbeat of America". This > important video documentary asks the question, "How will YOU feel when > you DISCOVER that the biggest drug smuggler in the country...is the > country?" and now can be ordered through MOM (406-847-2735). Was this > guest one of the reasons "Ghost Riders" was censored? You betcha. For > those satellite listeners out there, you can still catch the interview > with producer Daniel Hopsicker at 11 pm (e.s.t.) tonight (March 24th). > Please tune in. > Another very likely reason the show was yanked from the air was when > special guests came on the show to expose three agent provocateurs > within the Patriot Movement. Those exposed, by the special guests, as > provocateurs were Dave Rydell and Art Bean of the United States Theater > Command, and Tom Wayne, former 2nd in command of the Michigan Militia > Wolverines. All three are from Michigan. The guests claimed that two of > the three (Rydell and Bean) have been attempting to create a > confrontation between militia members and law enforcement authorities. > The provocateurs went so far as to claim that a Pennsylvania militia > member had been killed and it was time for the militia to take action, > one of the guests stated. (Nobody had been killed). The other exposed > provocateur (Wayne) admitted to providing information to the > Anti-Defamation League, stated another guest of the show. The guests > provided other detailed information, which is to lengthy to list here. > The "Ghost Riders" radio show blazed new trails during its first 5 days > of broadcast. The radio show hosts were no "fence sitters", and it > quickly became the leading edge for patriot talk shows. "Ghost riders" > offered an opportunity for America to talk about ALL issues important to > this country. Formerly, many of these subjects were the "unspeakable". > If you would like to voice your dissent over the cancellation of this > show, please call WGTG at: 706-492-5944. > > "We are riding hard to catch the herd; but we ain't caught 'em yet." > > --- end --- > - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:57:25 -0500 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises Inc and Shire.Net" Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? >>March 25, 1998 big sniparoo >> >>Now we know why. Comrade Clinton is headed over there to create >>"friendship links" between that country and America so U.S. >>corporations can move EVEN MORE U.S. jobs out of this country. >> >>Only now, the job sucking sound is going to be coming from Africa. >> >>Clinton gives America the shaft once again. >> >> >> Les Lemke >> >>* Origin: Stargate Oregon - North Bend, Oregon USA (1:356/3) > > >- Monte > This is crap. Chad - --------------------------------------------------------------- Chad Leigh Pengar Enterprises, Inc and Shire.Net chad@pengar.com info@pengar.com info@shire.net Full service WWW services from just space to complete sites. Low cost virtual servers. DB integration. Tango. Email forwarding -- Permanent Email Addresses. POP3 and IMAP Email Accounts. mailto:info@shire.net for any of these. - --------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:49:49 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? Chad, I just, I really hate to see you beat around the bush like this ; ) Boyd Kneeland. Visit www.distributed.net/rc5 and join team 1661! At 1:57 PM -0500 3/25/98, Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises Inc and Shire.Net wrote: >>>March 25, 1998 > >big sniparoo > >>> >>>Now we know why. Comrade Clinton is headed over there to create >>>"friendship links" between that country and America so U.S. >>>corporations can move EVEN MORE U.S. jobs out of this country. >>> >>>Only now, the job sucking sound is going to be coming from Africa. >>> >>>Clinton gives America the shaft once again. >>> >>> >>> Les Lemke >>> >>>* Origin: Stargate Oregon - North Bend, Oregon USA (1:356/3) >> >> >>- Monte >> > > >This is crap. > >Chad > >--------------------------------------------------------------- >Chad Leigh Pengar Enterprises, Inc and Shire.Net >chad@pengar.com info@pengar.com info@shire.net >Full service WWW services from just space to complete sites. >Low cost virtual servers. DB integration. Tango. >Email forwarding -- Permanent Email Addresses. POP3 and IMAP >Email Accounts. mailto:info@shire.net for any of these. >--------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:07:12 -0500 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises Inc and Shire.Net" Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? >Chad, I just, I really hate to see you beat around the bush like this ; ) > I am stupid. Spell it out. thanks Chad >Boyd Kneeland. Visit www.distributed.net/rc5 and join team 1661! > >At 1:57 PM -0500 3/25/98, Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises Inc and Shire.Net >wrote: >>>>March 25, 1998 >> >>big sniparoo >> >>>> >>>>Now we know why. Comrade Clinton is headed over there to create >>>>"friendship links" between that country and America so U.S. >>>>corporations can move EVEN MORE U.S. jobs out of this country. >>>> >>>>Only now, the job sucking sound is going to be coming from Africa. >>>> >>>>Clinton gives America the shaft once again. >>>> >>>> >>>> Les Lemke >>>> >>>>* Origin: Stargate Oregon - North Bend, Oregon USA (1:356/3) >>> >>> >>>- Monte >>> >> >> >>This is crap. >> >>Chad >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >>Chad Leigh Pengar Enterprises, Inc and Shire.Net >>chad@pengar.com info@pengar.com info@shire.net >>Full service WWW services from just space to complete sites. >>Low cost virtual servers. DB integration. Tango. >>Email forwarding -- Permanent Email Addresses. POP3 and IMAP >>Email Accounts. mailto:info@shire.net for any of these. >>--------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>- > > > > >- - --------------------------------------------------------------- Chad Leigh Pengar Enterprises, Inc and Shire.Net chad@pengar.com info@pengar.com info@shire.net Full service WWW services from just space to complete sites. Low cost virtual servers. DB integration. Tango. Email forwarding -- Permanent Email Addresses. POP3 and IMAP Email Accounts. mailto:info@shire.net for any of these. - --------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? > >I am stupid. Spell it out. > >thanks >Chad > No, Chad you aren't stupid. Clinton isn't visiting Africa to somehow screw the American public. He's there to save his bacon and re-establish some credentials as a foreign policy kinda guy. I agree with Chad. The original posting is crap. If anyone is afraid of the gov. be afraid of tangible things, like the 50% of your income they take to do some wildly inefficient stuff with. If the people of Subsaharan Africa make you afraid, because they will build things for $2.00 a day, here is some advice: Go learn how to do things that they can't do, and aren't likely to be able to do anytime soon, and the market needs. If you do that, then you will be able to look after yourself regardless of what trade policy is with Africa. You might also develop a clear eyed view of what ails the guv, and how it impacts you. ciao, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:49:20 -0600 (CST) From: Subject: Oklahoma Rally (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:18:52 -0600 From: Tom Saunders To: rickie.a.slater@dartmouth.edu, freedom@spectra.net, observer@dmi.net, mlindste@clandjop.com, jeffs@gr.cns.net, pwatson@utdallas.edu, Shiloh1@airmail.net, nox2128@montana.com Subject: Oklahoma Rally ***************************** BILL OF ATTAINDER PROJECT ***************************** Press Release: "War On Drugs" WILL FOSTER RALLY APRIL 20TH, 4:00 p.m ON THE STEPS OF THE STATE CAPITAL Oklahoma City . Political Activists from all over the nation will gather together to protest the "War On Drugs" and plead for the freedom of Will Foster. Foster is currently serving over 90 years for growing his own medical marijuana. Currently not only is he being denied legal medicine, and medical care, your rights are dying with his. Most Americans do not realize that the "War On Drugs" is about much more than just drugs. The Bill Of Attainder Project, NORML, The Libertarian Party of Oklahoma, The Reform Party of Oklahoma, Oklahoma UCLA, Drug Reform Coordination Network, and many other organizations will be in Oklahoma City to tell the truth about the "War On Drugs." The keynote speaker will be Adam J. Smith. Do you know the truth about what the government is really spending? Do you suspect the government lies, and misrepresents the facts? Did you know their 'War' against a culture is illegal? Come meet the people doing something about it. Several members of the Oklahoma media will be present along with a diverse group of political activists. All are invited. Along with the rally a documentary of the event will be made which will include interviews with major voices in the "Drug War." If you can help or would like to attend the event you may contact OKNORML in Oklahoma City at: (405) 366-8058. Bill Of Attainder Project http://www.isc-durant.com/to/billofattainder - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:19:00 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? In case what chad was seeking elucidation on was my comment, I want to be clear that I was being sarcastic. Chads comment was succinct, clear and to the point in a way that I see very little in most of the lists I'm on. That's refreshing, I just wanted to humorously reinforce that sort of thing. Evidently intent didn't meet implementation. So, maybe others around the country can tell me if "beat around the bush" is a regional colloquialism? It's the opposite of what Chad did, it's evading the point. Does this sound to others like something I just made up? (it's not). Boyd "verbosity on request" Kneeland At 5:14 PM -0500 3/25/98, John Curtis wrote: >> >>I am stupid. Spell it out. >> >>thanks >>Chad >> > No, Chad you aren't stupid. > > Clinton isn't visiting Africa to somehow screw the American > public. He's there to save his bacon and re-establish some > credentials as a foreign policy kinda guy. > > I agree with Chad. The original posting is crap. > > If anyone is afraid of the gov. be afraid of tangible things, > like the 50% of your income they take to do some wildly > inefficient stuff with. > > If the people of Subsaharan Africa make you afraid, because > they will build things for $2.00 a day, here is some advice: > Go learn how to do things that they can't do, and aren't likely > to be able to do anytime soon, and the market needs. > > If you do that, then you will be able to look after yourself > regardless of what trade policy is with Africa. You might also > develop a clear eyed view of what ails the guv, and how it > impacts you. > > ciao, > > jcurtis > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:34:09 -0500 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises Inc and Shire.Net" Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? >In case what chad was seeking elucidation on was my comment, I want to be >clear that I was being sarcastic. Chads comment was succinct, clear and to >the point in a way that I see very little in most of the lists I'm on. >That's refreshing, I just wanted to humorously reinforce that sort of >thing. Evidently intent didn't meet implementation. Now that I read Boyds original post again it makes much more sense. I guess my original problem was not understanding if it was pro or con what I said. I now can read and understand his original comment. I also agree fully with John Curtis' comments. In most cases, in manufacturing, "you gets what your pays for" Chad also on team 1661 at www.distributed.net > >So, maybe others around the country can tell me if "beat around the bush" >is a regional colloquialism? It's the opposite of what Chad did, it's >evading the point. Does this sound to others like something I just made up? >(it's not). >Boyd "verbosity on request" Kneeland > >At 5:14 PM -0500 3/25/98, John Curtis wrote: >>> >>>I am stupid. Spell it out. >>> >>>thanks >>>Chad >>> >> No, Chad you aren't stupid. >> >> Clinton isn't visiting Africa to somehow screw the American >> public. He's there to save his bacon and re-establish some >> credentials as a foreign policy kinda guy. >> >> I agree with Chad. The original posting is crap. >> >> If anyone is afraid of the gov. be afraid of tangible things, >> like the 50% of your income they take to do some wildly >> inefficient stuff with. >> >> If the people of Subsaharan Africa make you afraid, because >> they will build things for $2.00 a day, here is some advice: >> Go learn how to do things that they can't do, and aren't likely >> to be able to do anytime soon, and the market needs. >> >> If you do that, then you will be able to look after yourself >> regardless of what trade policy is with Africa. You might also >> develop a clear eyed view of what ails the guv, and how it >> impacts you. >> >> ciao, >> >> jcurtis >> >>- > > > > >- - --------------------------------------------------------------- Chad Leigh Pengar Enterprises, Inc and Shire.Net chad@pengar.com info@pengar.com info@shire.net Full service WWW services from just space to complete sites. Low cost virtual servers. DB integration. Tango. Email forwarding -- Permanent Email Addresses. POP3 and IMAP Email Accounts. mailto:info@shire.net for any of these. - --------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:58:29 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? >big sniparoo > >>> >>>Now we know why. Comrade Clinton is headed over there to create >>>"friendship links" between that country and America so U.S. >>>corporations can move EVEN MORE U.S. jobs out of this country. >>> >>>Only now, the job sucking sound is going to be coming from Africa. >>> >>>Clinton gives America the shaft once again. >>> >>> >>> Les Lemke >>> >>>* Origin: Stargate Oregon - North Bend, Oregon USA (1:356/3) >> >> >>- Monte >> >This is crap. > >Chad Well, you surely were brief in your "analysis;" care to offer any more? - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:25:39 -0700 From: "E.J. Totty" Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? Boyd, [...] If the people of Subsaharan Africa make you afraid, because`they will build things for $2.00 a day, here is some advice: Go learn how to do things that they can't do, and aren't likely to be able to do anytime soon, and the market needs. [...] Cute, really cute. Good point too. But, I fear the original poster was trying to make a different point, one which was lost in all of self-congratulations, and that is, that citizen's money is being used to screw them. So, yeah, it's good to be able to go get yourself an education, and prepare for the worst. But, and a big but it is, if you are already on the low end of the wage scale, what help is there for you? If you were formerly a logger, and are say about 50 years old, who the blazes is going to hire you after 4 years of college? Try it sometime. I've seen the best educated men and women getting closed doors everyday, because they are too old. So, Boyd? Try attacking this from the other side of the coin, where you are just managing to make ends meet, and the friggers in your state are making deals with _your_ competition, using _your_ money. Tell me _your_ arse ain't sore when the screwjob's done. ET - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:30:59 -0700 From: "E.J. Totty" Subject: CS: Pol-BBC Poll >Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:01:21 -0500 >From: Steven Kendrick/UK >Subject: CS: Pol-BBC Poll >To: CyberShooters >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-cybershooters@mail-it.com >Precedence: bulk > >From: Jim Pullen, INTERNET:pullen@erols.com > >The BBC are having a poll "Should handguns be banned in America?" > >Who gave the BBC the moral right to foist their socialist anti-gun >views on another country? > > > >Can we massage the figures a bit? > >Jim >-- >Probably. I fail to understand the rationale of the BBC given that >the shootings in Arkansas were accomplished with bolt-action hunting >rifles. > >Steve. > > ---------[advertisement]----------- > > We can't all sue the Government, but we can give money to > people who are making the attempt: > > Justice for Shooters, PO Box 705, Bourne End, Bucks, SL8 5FS. > http://home.rednet.co.uk/homepages/markg/index.html > > David Steed Fighting Fund, c/o Howell-Jones & Partners, 75 > Surbiton Road, Kingston-upon-Thames. > > NPA Fighting Fund, c/o BM NPA, London, WC1N 3XX. > > "A pound a day keeps the gun-grabbers away" > > ----------[subscription info]---------- > > To subscribe (or unsubscribe), send email to > majordomo@mail-it.com with no subject and the text: > > subscribe cybershooters (or unsubscribe cybershooters) > > as the first and only line in the message body. For further > information, please refer to the Cybershooters FAQ at > http://www.tsra.demon.co.uk/csfaq.htm > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:59:19 -0500 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises Inc and Shire.Net" Subject: Re: (fwd) WHY Is Clinton Visiting Africa, You Ask? > Boyd, > > [...] > If the people of Subsaharan Africa make you afraid, >because`they will build things for $2.00 a day, here is some >advice: > Go learn how to do things that they can't do, and >aren't likely to be able to do anytime soon, and the market needs. > [...] > > Cute, really cute. > Good point too. > > But, I fear the original poster was trying to make >a different point, one which was lost in all of self-congratulations, >and that is, that citizen's money is being used to screw them. Well, we've already established that the citizens are not getting screwed (above and beyond the direct wasted money for running such an "office"). (Ie, if the Africans are now going to be building widget X at $2/day, how many jobs are being sent there -- not many -- the total number of jobs that could ever be affected by making widget X or whatever is very small). So, the only screwing of the citizens is the tax money to run the office. Jack Curtis, who wrote the stuff below (not Boyd) made a more important point -- instead of trying to find a bogeyman in every little dumb thing, get up in arms about the 50% of your income that is being taken by the gov. for everything else! All the "woe is us -- our jobs are going overseas" folks cannot do the math on the real (negligble) effect that has on our country. All of use get screwed by the government on a daily basis in a much bigger way (taxes etc). And lastly, the government does not owe you or anyone else a job and have NO RIGHT to make legislation that punishes the rest of us so you can keep your job. And I have to laugh at the premise of the original article that this was all being done to fatten someones pockets. Companies are not welfare agencies. They need to make the best decisions they can to run their businesses. If they cannot run a profitable business in the UNited STates because of all the governmental hassles and controls and regulations as well as high taxes they have to put up with then they will move. Everytime a company moves overseas we should be yelling at the government for making the US uncompetitive. When you pay someone in Africa 2$/day you get about 2$ a day in effort. This is an economic truth. You do not get the same output (productivity) you get from an American or European worker. However, the government artificially raises the cost of doing business in the US with all sorts of extra regulations, paper work, and taxes and stuff so that you may get a higher relative productivity in Africa because more of the 2$ you pay there goes to productivity than the 24$/hour you pay here (eg, lets say that you get 10 productivity units per dollar spent minus whatever government overhead you have. In africa you may get 19 units of productivity for your 2$ you spend there per worker or 95% productive. In the US where you spend 24$/hour you may get 1440 units of production per worker for an 8 hour day but that is only 75% (24 x 8 x 7.5 -- 2.5 was the government overhead -- these numbers made up but show the principle). So in Africa the cost per productivity unit is cheaper but in the US you get almost 75 times more productivity per worker. The goal should then be to get the cost of production down in the US to more closely match it overseas. Anyway, what this all means is that the "woe is us" crowd, besides not being able to do math, is barking up the wrong tree. They need to demand less government intrusion into business so that companies can increase their productivity output per $ spent. > So, yeah, it's good to be able to go get yourself an >education, and prepare for the worst. > But, and a big but it is, if you are already on the low >end of the wage scale, what help is there for you? > > If you were formerly a logger, and are say about 50 >years old, who the blazes is going to hire you after 4 years of >college? Try it sometime. I've seen the best educated men and >women getting closed doors everyday, because they are too old. My dad took early retirement as an engineer and went and tried to find another job. It has been hard but he has managed to get work. He is now 62 and teaching some computer classes at a local college and also working part time for the phone company. People need to realize that there is no RIGHT to a job. They need to fend the best they can the same as every one else. It is not the governments jpb to subsidize uncompetitive industries. NOR is it their job to stand in the way like they seem to do but no one of the "woe is me" types worries about that. > > So, Boyd? Try attacking this from the other side of the >coin, where you are just managing to make ends meet, and the >friggers in your state are making deals with _your_ competition, >using _your_ money. That is not what the article described. The article offered no proof that anything of this sort was happening. Just some paranoid "woe is me" type trying to put 2 + 2 together from reading the paper and tracking his legislature and reading into their actions... Sorry for the long winded reply. "This is crap" should have been enough. best Chad > Tell me _your_ arse ain't sore when the screwjob's done. > >ET > > > >- - --------------------------------------------------------------- Chad Leigh Pengar Enterprises, Inc and Shire.Net chad@pengar.com info@pengar.com info@shire.net Full service WWW services from just space to complete sites. Low cost virtual servers. DB integration. Tango. Email forwarding -- Permanent Email Addresses. POP3 and IMAP Email Accounts. mailto:info@shire.net for any of these. - --------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #94 ************************