From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #117 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Friday, April 24 1998 Volume 02 : Number 117 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Apr 98 21:42:40 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: GOA alert on BATF's Brady power grab (fwd) On Apr 22, ataylor@NMSU.Edu () wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Huh, GOA got the word out last week. Where's that NRA "winning team" on this, I wonder? - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:40:01 -0400 From: Gun Owners of America Reply-To: Gun Owners of America To: goamail@gunowners.org Subject: BATF Admissions Re: Instant Check X-Mailer: Gun Owners of America's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [eng] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Brady "Instant" Check to Spell Trouble - -- Possible three-day wait could cripple gun show sales by Gun Owners of America 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151, 703-321-8585, http://www.gunowners.org (Friday, April 17, 1998) Brady Instant Registration Check could take three days; register gun owners The BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) issued regulations in February that should concern every gun owner. The regulations involve the implementation of the so-called instant check, which is supposed to go on-line in November of this year. It turns out, however, that the instant check may not be so instant after all. The BATF regulations make it clear that the feds will have "up to three business days" to respond to each background check request. Read that again: "three business days." Following these guidelines, could the feds decide to take the weekends off? If so, that would seriously impact all gun dealer sales at weekend gun shows. Moreover, since weekends are not typically considered business days, the "three business days" can easily impose a five day waiting period for weekend gun sales - or a six day waiting period if there is a holiday on a Friday or Monday. Given the BATF's own verbiage, and given the President's track record regarding his abuse of firearms rights, gun owners should be very concerned about the implications that these regulations carry for gun dealer sales at weekend gun shows. Gun Owners of America has strongly opposed the Instant Registration Check from its inception. Such a check requires a law-abiding citizen to prove his innocence to government officials before exercising a right. Furthermore, GOA has always argued that no matter how many prohibitions are written into the law, the possibility of gun owner registration is always present. BATF wants your Social Security number GOA's concerns were recently validated when the BATF made it clear they want gun dealers to retrieve the Social Security numbers of gun buyers. Providing the feds with the Social Security number of gun owners enhances their ability to compile a national gun registry. (Gun owners should also note that the feds will be conducting background checks on ALL guns - shotguns and rifles included.) It is imperative that your Representative and Senators understand that gun owners do not want their names to be phoned in and entered into a federal bureaucrat's computer. We repeat: honest gun owners should not have to prove their innocence to the government before exercising a constitutional right - any more than a preacher or journalist should have to prove their worthiness before exercising their First Amendment rights. GOA members should have already received the latest GOA newsletter and legislative alert in the mail. While the GOA newsletter (dated April 24, 1998) quotes pertinent passages from the BATF regs, one can also read them in their entirety by going to http://www.gunowners.org/bitb.htm on the GOA website. ACTION: Urge your Representative (1-800-504-0031 or 202-225-3121) to cosponsor Rep. Ron Paul's H.R. 2721 - a bill which would, among other things, repeal the Brady "registration" law in its entirety. GOA has also posted on the Web a sample opposition letter to the BATF. Go to the above mentioned URL and use the sample letter to compose your own - or copy it word for word if you're short on time. But make sure you sound-off to the BATF before May 20 when the comment period ends. (Grassroots heat can have a tremendous effect in getting regulatory agencies to back off their gun control proposals - as we've seen in recent years with the Forest Service, the EPA and the BLM. As for the BATF, go ahead and write them anonymously to protect your privacy.) - -- Clip & Fax -- (see http://www.gunowners.org/h105th.htm for fax numbers or call your Rep. and ask) Dear Representative, The proposed new BATF regulations calling for the use of Social Security numbers as part of the information taken during the purchase of a firearm is a clear invasion of my right to privacy and another step toward national gun registration. Even though Congress has passed laws to prevent a national gun registry, this agency continues to ignore public law, the Constitution and the express will of the Congress. Moreover, the proposed BATF regulations will allow federal bureaucrats up to "three business days" to complete the background checks on gun buyers. This "three day" period could easily be used to cripple gun show sales, and could turn the supposed "instant" check into a three to six day waiting period. The best way to prevent this from infringing upon my rights is by passing H.R. 2721, a bill to repeal the Brady registration law. I urge you to become a sponsor of this important pro-gun legislation. *********************************************************** Are you receiving this as a cross-post? To be certain of getting up-to-the-minute information, please consider joining the GOA E-mail Alert Network directly. The service is free, your address remains confidential, and the volume is quite low: five messages a week would be a busy week indeed. To subscribe, simply send a message (or forward this notice) to goamail@gunowners.org and include your state of residence in either the subject line or the body. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 00:13:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Top Five Ways to Tell When the Government Is Corrupt (fwd) On Apr 22, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] (Not a product of Worldwide Pants, Inc.) TOP FIVE WAYS TO TELL WHEN THE GOVERNMENT IS CORRUPT 5. Congress passes a Minimum Bribe Law. 4. The inaugural oath ends with "So help me, Godfather." 3. The special prosecutor is warned to wear bulletproof knee pads. (Wait a minute -- this actually happened!) 2. Lawyers in the White House Counsel's Office insist on being referred to as "Da Bawss's consiglieri." ***And the Number One way to tell when the government is corrupt: Furtive Oval Office visits by skulking "bagmen" from McDonald's. ============== Kevin McGehee North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:24:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: Newt takes on Clinton and Tobacco big government ploy (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Tobacco bill motives draw Gingrich's ire By Mary Ann Akers THE WASHINGTON TIMES House Speaker Newt Gingrich said President Clinton's push for a tobacco bill is motivated not by a desire to save children from smoking-related diseases but by a liberal agenda to raise taxes and create bigger government. For their part, the president and Vice President Al Gore said Mr. Gingrich and other congressional Republicans were simply toeing the line for the tobacco companies and would not dare do anything to hurt their standing with the GOP's biggest political contributors. The partisan sniping was a clear indication that the political war over tobacco is overshadowing serious efforts to get legislation passed this year. "This is not a question of who cares about children or who cares [about] stopping lung disease," Mr. Gingrich said. "This is an issue about whether or not liberals deliberately used a passionate, powerful, emotional issue as an excuse for higher taxes, bigger government and more bureaucracy. "Now, does the president want to stop kids from smoking, or does he want a smokescreen behind which he gets higher taxes, bigger bureaucracy and bigger government?" the Georgia Republican asked. Mr. Gore accused Republicans of doing exactly as they are told by the tobacco industry, suggesting - -- Continued from Front Page -- GOP lawmakers abandoned attempts to pass comprehensive tobacco legislation just as soon as cigarette makers balked at the pending deal two weeks ago. "Is it a coincidence that immediately after the tobacco industry executives switched signals, called a new play, and publicly announced their opposition to legislation, that right away the Republican leadership switched their signals, adopted a new play and announced their opposition to legislation?" the vice president asked. "I don't think it's a coincidence." Mr. Gingrich denied that he would allow the tobacco industry to control the Republican agenda and declared he had "as strong an anti-tobacco company position as you've seen in this city." As the two sides swapped accusations, they also recommended significant changes to comprehensive tobacco legislation pending in the Senate. Mr. Clinton suggested ways to strengthen several parts of the bill, while Senate GOP leaders joined House Republicans in pushing for a more narrowly tailored measure aimed at stopping teen smoking and drug use. White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles submitted the president's suggested changes to Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican, who crafted the Senate bill, during a White House meeting attended by a few other top Clinton aides. The president stopped by the meeting but did not linger to discuss his position. Mr. McCain declined to specify the proposed changes but said all were negotiable. White House aides have said the president's main goal is to stiffen the penalties imposed on tobacco companies that fail to meet the bill's target to cut teen smoking by 60 percent over 10 years. Mr. McCain's bill, which would strengthen the agreement reached last June between the tobacco industry and 40 state attorneys general, also has not won the endorsement of the Senate GOP leadership, even though it was approved 19-1 by the Senate Commerce Committee. Senate GOP leader Trent Lott of Mississippi and Assistant Majority Leader Don Nickles of Oklahoma both indicated yesterday they would rather push a bill that would attack both teen smoking and drug use, much like the package being discussed by House GOP leaders. "I think we should address teen-age drug abuse as well as teen smoking," Mr. Lott said. Mr. Nickles added, "I personally plan on including an anti-drug component to whatever we do." House leaders have said they will wait to see what kind of tobacco bill the Senate passes before taking action themselves, but they have also made clear they do not favor the Senate bill. One issue in dispute is the Senate bill's proposed $1.10 per-pack tax increase on cigarettes. Mr. Gingrich said yesterday he would support a tobacco tax increase, but only as long as the money is used to give tax breaks for health-related costs -- namely for the self-employed - -- and not for any new social programs the president wants. "If the president wants to raise the cost of cigarettes, I'll join him tomorrow and we'll do it, if he is willing to give the money back to the American people," Mr. Gingrich said. The McCain bill would raise the price of a pack of cigarettes, require tobacco companies to pay $516 billion over 25 years to cover legal costs and anti-smoking initiatives, give the Food and Drug Administration regulatory authority over tobacco and cap annual payments on liability claims. Despite the obvious opposition, Mr. McCain insisted yesterday a comprehensive bill will pass Congress this year. "I believe that at the end of the day we will have a bill that attacks effectively kids smoking tobacco," he said. Mr. McCain said Mr. Lott, who has expressed serious skepticism about the prospects, assured him he was committed to getting the legislation approved this election year. "He told me that he still would like to move a bill forward," Mr. McCain said. Mr. Gingrich also promised yesterday: "We are going to have a bill." - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:12:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: A democracy cannot survive as a permanent form of government - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:57:07 -0400 From: Mary Lynn Bailey Subject: RE: CAS: Please explain "A democracy cannot survive as a permanent form of government. It can = last only until its citizens discover that they can vote themselves = largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority = (who vote) will vote for the candidates promising the greatest benefits = from the public purse, with the result that a democracy will always = collapse from loose fiscal policies, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest democratic nations has been 200 = years. Each has been through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith. From faith to great courage. From courage to liberty.=09 From liberty to abundance. From abundance to complacency. From complacency to selfishness. From selfishness to apathy. From apathy to dependency. And from dependency back again into bondage. Can we escape this fate?" --Lord Thomas B. Macaulay, 1857 - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:02:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: WT: Clinton secretly paid $200K for standing UN Army - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:29:37 -0400 From: jim hofmann Subject: CAS: WT (summary): White House backs standby U.N. Army The WT hasn't updated their web site today but this is a front page story - here are the first few paragraphs White Houes backs standby U.N. army Funding circumvents Congress' wishes by George Archibald The Washington Tims Congressional officials are investigating $200,000 the Clinton administration gave the United Nations last fall as seed money to mobilize a worldwide standby army for peacekeeping operations. While the State Deaprtment insists it notified the relevant House and Senate committees about themove, key staffers on Capitol Hill said this week that they do not recall a notification. The congressional aides have started an inquiry to see if the standby army contribution was "buried" ina larger request ro reprogram appropriated State Department funds. The State Department, when queried about hte U.N. contribution, resued to release to the Washington Times documents sent to Congress as official notification because they are "privileged," said Joseph Dickie, spokesman for the department's international organizaton affairs bureau. The U.S. contribution, given quietly last September, was the first voluntary donation to establish a $2.3 million U.N. trust fund to findance the new U.N. trust fund to finance the new U.N. military operation called the Rapidly Deployable Missoin Headquarters (RDMHQ) according to sources close to Bernard Miyet, U.N. undersecretary-general for peacekeeping operations. END OF EXCERPT - - -------- jhofmann@erols.com ========================================================================== This mailing list is for discussion of Clinton Administration Scandals. If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send electronic mail to majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com. In the message body put: unsubscribe cas - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:15:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: US still owes UN money (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:47:32 -0700 Subject: US still owes UN money U.S. not alone in U.N. arrears By George Archibald THE WASHINGTON TIMES (April 21, 1998) Forty-five countries, including Russia, owe the United Nations so much money from unpaid dues and peacekeeping assessments that they should have lost their voting rights in the General Assembly --but haven't. At the beginning of this year, as top-ranking U.N. officials and the administration berated Congress for unpaid U.S. dues -- including $488 million in disputed assessments -- Russia and 74 other countries owed the world body $559 million in unpaid dues going back many years, according to records kept by the U.N. contributions office. Arrears of the 75 delinquent nations on Dec. 31 were more than double their yearly assessments --the threshold established by the U.N. Charter for being bounced as voting members of the General Assembly. But in January, only 30 nations had been stripped of votes for the current session, according to U.N. officials. Fred Eckhard, the U.N. spokesman, ignored repeated requests by The Washington Times to explain the apparent discrepancy. "What a lot of countries do is pay immediately down to get under that two-year level" to avoid debarment, said Princeton N. Lyman, assistant secretary of state for international organizations, who oversees the U.S. Mission to the United Nations and administration policies toward the world body. "A special thing" was arranged to save Russia's vote, Mr. Lyman said. "The Russians had a contested amount like we did. ... They refused to recognize the peacekeeping the U.N. undertook in the Congo [in the 1960s]. They reached an agreement with the U.N. two years ago to pay it off over so many years, and everybody accepted that they would do that because it was a big amount." Russia owed about $400 million in unpaid peacekeeping assessments at the end of 1995 and had paid all but $136 million by the end of last year, the assistant secretary said. With unpaid dues for war crimes tribunals, Russia's total arrears are $139.9 million, according to figures provided last week by the U.N.'s Department of Administration and Management. Delinquent nations comprising a fourth of the U.N. membership include a largely socialist bloc that virulently criticizes the United States on a regular basis, even though the Unites States has paid a quarter of the U.N. budget since the organization was established in 1948. Third World countries voted last year to sharply cut their own assessments while increasing America's 25 percent share even higher, to 31 percent. "There is obviously a lot of hypocrisy in that," Mr. Lyman, formerly ambassador to South Africa, said. "But on the other hand, ... if you will look down the list of countries that have actually lost their votes because they couldn't get under [the 200 percent arrears threshold], most of them are the poorest countries. "So [representatives of U.N. member nations] say it's one thing for some of the poorest countries of the world not to even pay $27,000 [in yearly dues]. It's a different story for the richest country in the world to say we can't meet our 25 percent." But Sen. Rod Grams, Minnesota Republican and chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee on international operations, says the Clinton administration encouraged the United Nations to increase its global power and activities, despite congressional legislation to limit the U.S. contribution to 25 percent. "In my opinion they might be leading or orchestrating a lot of it, encouraging it," Mr. Grams said. "This administration was at the heart of voting for a tremendous increase in peacekeeping activity, which then really widened the gap of ... the arrears that are in question." The United Nations claims that Washington owes $1.3 billion in unpaid arrears. But the administration and Congress dispute $488 million of the U.N. claim because of congressional legislation, signed by the president, prohibiting U.S. support for certain activities, and because of U.N. bookkeeping practices. The government acknowledges just $54 million in U.S. arrears for the regular U.N. budget. The administration acknowledges an additional $254 million in U.S. arrears to U.N. special agencies, but since 1996 Congress has prohibited $68 million of that amount to be paid to the U.N. International Development Organization (UNIDO). The government also acknowledges $658 million in peacekeeping arrears, mostly for the United Nations' failed operations in Bosnia from 1992 to 1996 when NATO forces took over. The United Nations, in turn, owes the United States $112 million for contributed troops to various peacekeeping missions. This week, the Senate is scheduled to take up a foreign aid conference report authorizing U.N. arrears payments of $819 million over the next three years. The payments are tied to requirements for comprehensive U.N. bureaucratic reforms and cost-cutting. The conference report has already passed the House. The administration opposes tying arrears payments to U.N. reforms, Mr. Lyman said. "The resentment against our arrears is so great that it's hurting us in some of the areas that we're trying to pursue," he said of reforms. "It's the Europeans who resent us the most, and they've paid up and they pay on time, and they're the ones owed a lot of this peacekeeping money." The United States pays its U.N. dues at least nine months late each year because the U.S. fiscal year starts Oct. 1 and Congress won't approve forward-funding, the assistant secretary said. "The U.N. can live with that because, if everybody else pays and we pay 25 percent, and they get ours in the last quarter of the year, it'll just work out," he said. However, Mr. Lyman blamed congressional conditions, such as a recently enacted requirement that U.N. yearly spending not exceed $2.53 billion, for further delays in U.S. payments. "We have to certify a number of things. That takes us sometimes six months. ... They're running way short of money by that time, so they start borrowing." He denied congressional claims that U.N. officials use peacekeeping funds as "a revolving slush fund" for overspending in other programs. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:22:56 -0400 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Fw: WELCOME TO NAZI AMERICA >Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:16:20 -0800 >From: Jon Roland >Subject: Fw: WELCOME TO NAZI AMERICA >To: misc-activism-militia@moderators.uu.net >X-Mailer: Z-Mail Pro 6.2-beta, NetManage Inc. [ZM62_10] > >Alert all persons and media in the New Jersey area. > >------------------------ >From: cas@alaska.net (Cas) > > ALL. . . . > > I JUST RECEIVED THIS FROM A LONG TIME FRIEND OF ABOUT A QUARTER CENTURY. > HE IS AN UPSTANDING CITIZEN, FATHER AND FAMILY MAN. HE WORKS IN COMPUTERS > FOR A MAJOR PHONE COMPANY. HE'S A PART TIME GUNSMITH, SHOOTER AND >INSTRUCTOR. > HE IS ALSO A DEACON IN THE EPISPOCAL CHURCH. > > THIS IS NOT A JOKE. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. > > Cas Gadomski > Alaska > > >All: > >Welcome to Nazi Germany. And so it begins. Folks this is a REAL nightmare >come true. > >At 7:15 this morning (4/22) over a dozen machinegun armed agents of the NJ >State Police broke down my front door and invaded my home screaming >obsenities. We were rousted from our beds at gun point. I was ordered to >the floor and when I couldn't get down on my knees fast enough because of >my artificial knee and arthritis I was kicked to the floor, and my back and >neck repeatedly stomped. When one trooper yanked on my arm that had been >injured several years ago and I yelled in pain I was Maced and then kicked >in the head at least twice resulting in a bloddy lip and head pain. Of >course none of the storm troopers were wearing name tags. We were forced >into our living room, made to stand about in handcuffs for about four hours >in our pajamas while they trashed the house. > >They took all of my firearms, MOST of the ammunition (go figure), my >cartridge collection of US military ammo, my lead ingots and a couple of >buckets of cast bullets, all of my business records, and get this, my >Gunsite 260 certificate (they left my 499 certificate), and my NRA >Instructors certificate. They panicked at a dummy 60mm mortar round (the >kind you can pick up in surplus stores) and a blue dummy 100lb "practice >bomb" (empty sheet metal casing) yet left a couple of M79 practice grenade >rounds that were on display in my office. > >My wife and stepson were verbally abused and my stepson was grabbed and >roughed up by one young punk agent and threatened when he asked for some >clothes. > >All of the agents were pacing nervously about pointing their weapons all >over and were REALLY psyched up. They were really enjoying what they were >doing. I overheard several comments about "well we got another gun nut." >They joked about the fact that I was in excruciating pain from my shoulder >and knee. One storm trooper wanted to know what my "fucking problem was." I >was finally taken to the local PD where I was at least treated with a >little respect and compassion. > >I was finally released on $7,500 bail and my wife took me to the hospital >were I was x-rayed, catscanned and given some serious pain medication and >released. None of the hospital staff could believe what happened to me. > >When I finally got back to our house I was amazed to find that they had >left ammunition in my vault, and a lot of reloading components in my >basement. > >We have retained a big time attorney (NRA member) but have no idea how we >are going to afford him and my retirement papers are in. > >Your prayers for my family and I will be greatly appreciated in this >terrible time. > >John Schaefer > > > > > >- >(Cas) > >---------------End of Original Message----------------- > >=================================================================== >Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 >916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 04/23/98 Time: 08:16:20 >http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org >=================================================================== > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 00:13:23 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: URGENT TO ALL LIST MEMBERS Along with this basic info I'll post a more detailed account of this attrocity shortly. Repost them far and wide, of course. Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 10:32:16 -0000 From: Charles Riggs To: "Guns Save Lives!" , "Firearms and Politics" Subject: Fwd: URGENT TO ALL LIST MEMBERS THIS IS NOT A TEST! THIS IS A REAL MESSAGE IN REAL TIME!! With John's permission I'm posting this to as many lists as possible. This outrage must be reversed and the men who committed these acts brought to justice. Please contact the Governor and the State Police in New Jersey and let them know that the nation is watching them, that they don't commit such acts in a vacuum!!!!!! God Save the Republic- Charles Riggs. ************************************ Contact info for New Jersey (web sites) http://www.state.nj.us/governor/contact.htm http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/index.htm **************************************************** Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:21:08 -0400 From: "Paul A. Miller" <73006.3331@compuserve.com> Subject: URGENT TO ALL LIST MEMBERS >From another list. Sorry for the headers, unable to edit from this dumb terminal. Paul - --- Forwarded Message --- Date: 23-Apr-98 07:03 EDT From: INTERNET:PRN@airgunhq.com Subj: URGENT TO ALL LIST MEMBERS To: Multiple recipients of list PRN Reply-To: PRN@airgunhq.com From: cas@alaska.net (Cas) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:20:47 -0500 Organization: AirPower Information Services (610) 259-2193 Subject: URGENT TO ALL LIST MEMBERS > > ALL. . . . > > I JUST RECEIVED THIS FROM A LONG TIME FRIEND OF ABOUT A QUARTER > CENTURY. HE IS AN UPSTANDING CITIZEN, FATHER AND FAMILY MAN. HE WORKS > IN COMPUTERS FOR A MAJOR PHONE COMPANY. HE'S A PART TIME GUNSMITH, > SHOOTER AND INSTRUCTOR. HE IS ALSO A DEACON IN THE EPISPOCAL CHURCH. > > THIS IS NOT A JOKE. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. > > Cas Gadomski > Alaska > >>All: >> >>Welcome to Nazi Germany. And so it begins. Folks this is a REAL >>nightmare come true. >> >>At 7:15 this morning (4/22) over a dozen machinegun armed agents of the >>NJ State Police broke down my front door and invaded my home screaming >>obsenities. We were rousted from our beds at gun point. I was ordered >>to the floor and when I couldn't get down on my knees fast enough because >>of my artificial knee and arthritis I was kicked to the floor, and my back >>and neck repeatedly stomped. When one trooper yanked on my arm that had >>been injured several years ago and I yelled in pain I was Maced and then >>kicked in the head at least twice resulting in a bloddy lip and head pain. >>Of course none of the storm troopers were wearing name tags. We were >>forced into our living room, made to stand about in handcuffs for about >>four hours in our pajamas while they trashed the house. >> >>They took all of my firearms, MOST of the ammunition (go figure), my >>cartridge collection of US military ammo, my lead ingots and a couple >>of buckets of cast bullets, all of my business records, and get this, my >>Gunsite 260 certificate (they left my 499 certificate), and my NRA >>Instructors certificate. They panicked at a dummy 60mm mortar round >>(the kind you can pick up in surplus stores) and a blue dummy 100lb >>"practice bomb" (empty sheet metal casing) yet left a couple of M79 >>practice grenade rounds that were on display in my office. >> >>My wife and stepson were verbally abused and my stepson was grabbed and >>roughed up by one young punk agent and threatened when he asked for some >>clothes. >> >>All of the agents were pacing nervously about pointing their weapons all >>over and were REALLY psyched up. They were really enjoying what they >>were doing. I overheard several comments about "well we got another gun >>shoulder and knee. One storm trooper wanted to know what my "fucking >>problem was?" I was finally taken to the local PD where I was at least >>treated with a little respect and compassion. >> >>I was finally released on $7,500 bail and my wife took me to the hospital >>were I was x-rayed, catscanned and given some serious pain medication >>and released. None of the hospital staff could believe what happened to >>me. >> >>When I finally got back to our house I was amazed to find that they had >>left ammunition in my vault, and a lot of reloading components in my >>basement. >> >>We have retained a big time attorney (NRA member) but have no idea how >>we are going to afford him and my retirement papers are in. >> >>Your prayers for my family and I will be greatly appreciated in this >>terrible time. >> >>John Schaefer - -- (Cas) AirPower Information Services BBS * 610-259-2193 http://www.airpower.com Telnet://airpower.dyn.ml.org - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 00:14:08 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: details on the incident in New Jersey. (fwd) On Apr 23, Charles Riggs wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] To the recipients of this message on this list- please forward to other lists - My apologies for forwarding the message this morning from John Schaeffer about the raid on his house in New Jersey without providing additional details, but I hadn't yet spoken with John at that time, and am writing this now to fill in the background. John is 53 and a veteran of the U.S. Army, works in computers with one of the largest phone companies in the country, holds an FFL, and is a gunsmith and consultant on firearms and ammunition. His clients have included police departments in the past. He was present at the introduction of the Steyr Scout rifle this year at Whittington center, and is a friend of Col. Cooper's, who is following this affair with great interest. He maintains information about the Scout rifle on his web page with the active assistance of Steyr, who provide the photos to him. He is a verger in the Episcopal church (assists with the liturgy) and lives with his wife and stepson. He is a decent man and well-regarded by the alumni of the American Pistol Institute/Gunsite Training Center, of whom I am one, and is NOT accused of ANYTHING to do with drugs or anything of that sort. He applied to renew his FFL this year and met with several delays which were not explained. The charges against him at this time state that he provided false information on the renewal for his FFL, and other charges related to this alleged misinformation, info which John provided as required by law and in good faith. He is also charged with resisting arrest after being knocked down and kicked in the head by the New Jersey State Police, and while face-down being sprayed directly in the face with capsicum by this same officer. The charges against him were arranged by BATF, but the raid prosecuted by the NJSP for reasons unknown. The raid occurred in Tom's Point, New Jersey in the early hours of 22 April 1998 as a no-knock dynamic entry when they kicked down his door and entered the house, screaming obscenities. They could have come and knocked on the door, and arrested John and served the search warrant peacefully, but they didn't. They came in hyped up and fired up, and revelled in "getting us another gun nut" as they ran amok in his home. They knocked John down when he didn't kneel on command, but John couldn't kneel because he has severe arthritis, has had one knee replacement and is pending another. He can't even kneel in church for the services. Apparently even if you can't bend your knee for God, you'll have to do it for the NJSP! They screamed obscenities and threatened violence throughout the raid, threatened his stepson, and physically abused him by grabbing him by the throat when he asked to be allowed to get dressed- and this while standing in front of his house in his underwear. I hope this is sufficient information for the members of this list about John and this incident, and that you'll now contact the Governor of New Jersey, the NJSP, and anyone else you can think of who may be able to help us bring these thugs to task for their outrageous misconduct. Write to your representatives and ask how it is that every time BATF is around this sort of madness follows. Ask how it is that we no longer deal in a civil fashion with peaceful citizens. Demand an accounting for policemen who treat a member of the Episcopal church like a common crackhead or violent felon. If what I've told you in this message doesn't convince you to stand up for John Schaeffer and take action, then I can't think of what else to say to you, except that no citizen of this nation, no God-loving man born of woman, should ever have to suffer at the hands of men who represent the law in this way. If you agree with me, please raise your voices and speak for John, and for our common freedom. Watch six- Charles Riggs. Charles Riggs- Gunsite 1991- DVC! "Stop Crime- Be Armed- Fight Back!" Ky. Coalition to Carry Concealed (KC3) IDPA (Ky) - NRA - GOA Visit http://www.kc3.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 00:34:23 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: Scientists' Petition Against Kyoto Treaty (fwd) Well, we allready knew the Whitehouse was like that didn't we? On Apr 23, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] *** FORWARDED MESSAGE *** >Here are some >excerpts from the Science and Environmental Policy Project press >release. You can read the whole release and a list of signers on >their Web site: http://www.sepp.org. > > "FAIRFAX, VIRGINIA, APRIL 21, 1998 -- More than 15,000 >scientists, two-thirds with advanced academic degrees, have now >signed a Petition against the climate accord concluded in Kyoto >(Japan) in December 1997. The Petition (see text below) urges the >US government to reject the Accord, which would force drastic >cuts in energy use on the United States.... > > "In signing the Petition within a period of less than six >weeks, the 15,000 basic and applied scientists -- an >unprecedented number for this kind of document -- also expressed >their profound skepticism about the science underlying the Kyoto >Accord. The atmospheric data simply do not support the elaborate >computer-driven climate models that are being cited by the United >Nations and other promoters of the Accord as =91proof' of a major >future warming. The covering letter enclosed with the Petition, >signed by Dr. Frederick Seitz, President emeritus of Rockefeller >University and a past President of the U.S. National Academy of >Sciences, states it well: > "=91The treaty is, in our opinion, based upon flawed ideas. >Research data on climate change do not show that human use of >hydrocarbons is harmful. To the contrary, there is good evidence >that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is environmentally >helpful. This freely expressed vote against the warming scare >propaganda should be contrasted with the claimed =91consensus of >2500 climate scientists' about global warming. This facile and >oft-quoted assertion by the White House is a complete >fabrication. The contributors and reviewers of the 1996 report by >the UN-sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) >actually number less than 2000, and only a small fraction >-- who were never polled -- can claim to be climate scientists. >Many of those are known to be critical of the IPCC report and >have now become signers of the Petition. The 'silent majority' of >the scientific community has at last spoken out against the hype >emanating from politicians and much of the media about a 'warming >catastrophe.' The Petition reflects the frustration and disgust >felt by working scientists, few of whom have been previously >involved in the ongoing climate debate, about the misuse of >science to promote a political agenda,' said Dr. Seitz. > > "Dr. S. Fred Singer, President of The Science & Environmental >Policy Project (SEPP) and author of Hot Talk, Cold Science: >Global Warming's Unfinished Debate, explained: =91Scientists are >understandably upset when they see $2 billion per year >devoted to research on climate change, much it irrelevant and >concerned only with imaginary consequences of a hypothetical >warming -- while other fields of science are starved.'... > > "The Petition drive was organized by Dr. Arthur Robinson, >director of the Oregon Institute for Science and Medicine (Cave >Junction, OR) and a vocal critic of the shaky science used to >support the Kyoto Accord.... > > "The full text of the Petition follows: > > "=91We urge the United States government to reject the global >warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan, in December >1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on >greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance >of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of >mankind. > "=91There is no convincing scientific evidence that human >release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is >causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic >heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's >climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that >increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial >effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the >Earth.'" *** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *** Kevin McGehee North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Check out The Advance America Web Page http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/advance.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #117 *************************