From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #194 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, October 29 1998 Volume 02 : Number 194 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Oct 98 23:36:33 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Lohr headquarters? (fwd) Looks like the Loony Left is throwing a Temper Tantrum. We probably shouldn't let this one go; As in hound the Media or details..... On Oct 23, David W Shuee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I understand that Indiana State House district 46 candidate David Lohr's (R) campaign headquarters burned this week. Dave has take some very principled stands, including support for the patriotic movement's view of gun rights. Does anybody have details? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 98 15:40:16 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Open sesason on citizens goes on unreported (fwd) And the beat(ing) goes on..... On Oct 24, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Subj: Re: police shooting Date: 98-10-24 11:47:15 EDT From: kdsmyrl@juno.com To: RichSlick@aol.com To Whom it May Concern: On 10-23-98 in Sallisaw, OK the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, N.E. Region, with Senior agent V.M. Lyons in charge, swarmed a mobile home to "serve" a drug related arrest warrant. Inside this residence was a 13 year old teenage girl, a 5 year old little girl, a 4 month old infant, their Mother, Dad and another couple that had stopped for a cup of coffee on their way to a fishing trip. In typical terrorist fashion, the glass (screen door), (main door was open) came crashing in and armed agents poured in screaming and waving guns at people. The mother reached for her 5 year old to keep her from running in terror and as she did her shoulder was blown off by one of the trained terrorist robots! NO FIREARMS were in the house and the mother was in the kitchen several feet away from the goons which were still in the living room. The 13 year old passed out at the sight of seeing her mother shot down in her own kitchen and the 5 year old went into total hysteria (remind you of Ruby Ridge?). One of the agents was reported to have asked "who fired?" at which time there was a period of silence while they looked at one another. The mother, Pat Eymer, is at this time in the Sparks hospital in Ft Smith, AR. The dad, Steve Eymer is in jail, the children are in the care of the state while the grandmother who came in from out of state to get the children is not allowed to even see them until there is a court hearing on 10-26-98. Now, whether Mr Eymer is guilty or not is not an issue with me, what bothers me are the goofy, stupid, dangerous, cruel, idiotic, irresponsible, unamerican, and cowardly tactics used by these agencies to "serve" arrest/search warrants. If these so called "men" are so scared of being hurt, they need to get out of the business and let people with common sense and decency tend to these matters. If this was an isolated incident, a huge law suit and public apology may serve for justice but this is becoming a regular pattern in this country for the past several years now. Talk about CHILD ABUSE! How about a law that no firearms can be allowed to make any arrest wherever children are present! Our government is evidentyly not mature or responsible enough to be allowed anywhere near the same physical location as our children and grandchildren with firearms! NO outlaw is worth killing innocent children for. Where are their priorities??? I don't know how many inches away from the head of this 5 year old little girl that bullet passed in order to blow the shoulder off of this dangerous unarmed mother, but if it was in the same house, it was too close as well as the act of a coward robot. By the way, the local news media has been hush hush about this which is the reason I'm typing this! I hope it is accurate, it is to the best of my knowledge and ability, it may be the only side of this story you'll ever hear. kdsmyrl@lcc.net [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 98 15:53:10 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: JPFO alert (fwd) On Oct 27, Douglas Davis wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Return-Path: >From: jpfo@dbeatty.worldweb.net >Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:26:22 -0500 >To: Douglas Davis > >From: jpfo@dbeatty.worldweb.net >Subject: E mail alert > > >Help Stop the Gun Prohibitionists' >Seduction of Our Children >http://www.jpfo.org/brasco.htm > >Dear JPFO Member: > > To reverse the damage caused by media lies and public school >disinformation about firearms ownership, we absolutely must protect the >hearts and minds of children. > Did you know that a poll sponsored by the Panasonic Corporation >showed most kids believe "gun control" laws should be more >restrictive?1 These kids don't understand that it will be their job to >preserve >the precious legacy of the Second Amendment. How can we help them >accomplish this critical task? > > To instill in children a positive impression of firearms is step number >one. If children had a healthy, moral, and positive view toward firearms, >then >the gun prohibitionists would not get away with lying to our kids. We >wouldn't have schoolyard shootings, either. All of those despicable efforts >to >promote "gun control" would fail utterly. > >A Totally New Educational Tool ! > > JPFO has launched a new program to accomplish this goal. Please >read our new Brasco (tm) story & coloring book. Brasco (tm) the Liberty >Bear makes learning firearms safety fun. He creates a positive image of >firearms. He teaches kids important lessons about liberty. > > Sit down right now and read your enclosed premier copy! > > Brasco (tm) will make kids proud that their parents own firearms. >Brasco (tm) also "inoculates" our kids against the racist anti-gun and anti- >Bill >of Rights rhetoric which they will hear in school, in the media, and from >other >brainwashed kids. > > The Brasco (tm) story and coloring book not only creates a desire to >own and properly use firearms, but also provides a family-oriented program >to teach about the proud American birthright: private firearms ownership. > > Every member of the family can read the Brasco (tm) book to younger >kids. Imagine the funs kids would have at a Brasco (tm) the Liberty Bear >party. Cake, ice cream, and prizes for each kid who reads one of the 26 brief >messages or colors one of the Brasco (tm) figures. Think of all of the young >hearts and minds you could influence and win. > > The Brasco (tm) book also helps kids learn the alphabet, how to count, >read numbers, even recognize Roman numerals. The cartoon figures are large >and easy for young artists to color. The big bright bear figures reveal a >range >of emotions and discuss subjects that will vitally interest both boys and >MORE (you've seen 69%): >girls. > > What if you don't have children of your own? You can do your part >to save the Second Amendment by sharing this first Brasco (tm) with >nephews & nieces, or with friends who do have kids. > > The Brasco (tm) educational program makes it possible for kids to be >buddies with a solidly pro-firearms, no compromise character. This kind of >program does exactly what we need: it develops a positive image of firearms >ownership at this crucial time in American history. > >Your Help Is Needed Today ! > > Here is how you can help Brasco (tm) stop the efforts of rights >destroyers everywhere: buy and start using the Brasco (tm) book today! >Don't delay ... order a generous supply of Brasco(tm) books and make sure >they get to all of the children in your life (and their pro-liberty teachers). > > When you help Brasco(tm), you become part of the vital solution to >stopping gun prohibitionists from subverting the hearts and minds of >American children. > >Yours for Liberty, > >Aaron Zelman > >___ > > Those that care more for their money than their Liberty will end up with >neither - Aaron Zelman >P.S.: Buy 50 Brasco (tm) booklets and JPFO will send you a dozen free >Brasco (tm) greeting cards. You'll save $11.95 ! > ****************** Firearms, self-defense, and other information, with LINKS are available at: http://shell.rmi.net/~davisda Latest additions are found in the group NEW with GOA and other alerts under the heading ALERTS. For those without browser capabilities, send [request index.txt] to davisda@rmi.net and an index of the files at this site will be e-mailed to you. Then send [request ] and the requested file will be sent as a message. Various shareware programs are archived at: ftp://shell.rmi.net/pub2/davisda To receive the contents of the FTP site, send [request index.ftp] to davisda@rmi.net ******************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:14:17 -0600 (CST) From: Paul M Watson Subject: Navy-Ship Witnesses, 2 more (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:57:37 -0500 From: Ian Goddard To: dstern@copi.com Subject: Navy-Ship Witnesses, 2 more Two witnesses, Alice Rowe and Lisa Perry, of Long Island, report having seen a large Navy ship close to shore, near the area TWA 800 crashed, about two hours before the crash. They join a list witnesses, including Navy veterans, who also reported seeing a Navy ship or ships off shore on the day of the TWA 800 crash. About a month ago came the earth-shattering, mass-media ignored admission by the head of the FBI's TWA-800 investigation that 3 ships in the crash area where "Navy ships on classified maneuvers" [*] in the very same close-to-shore area that triangulated-witness accounts indicate to be the launch site of the rocket that killed TWA 800. Here then is the account of two Navy-ship eyewitnesses (thanks to Cmdr. Bill Donaldson (USN ret) for making them avail- able (full account: http://members.aol.com/FL800/perry.html)): "On July 17, 1996 we saw a United States military vessel travelling from the west towards the east, just outside the sandbar along the shore of Davis Park, Fire Island. It was about 6 or 6:30. We had returned to the beach with our children after a quick dinner so that they could play in the tidal pools on the beach. While they were playing, we noticed a boat just outside the sandbar towards the west. Initially each of us thought it must be some type of fishing boat... Once it was in front of us we saw that is was quite obviously a military fight- ing ship. It was battleship gray, with the char- acteristic I.D. numbers on the front; there was a lot of equipment on board such as the big globe which we assumed must be radar, and military gunnery. We discussed how neither of us had ever seen such a ship so close to shore, even though we have each spent many years at Long Island beaches. ... We are 100% sure the ship was a military fighting ship. In an effort to be of assistance, we separately looked at pictures of military boats from the book Jane's Fighting Ships, ('96-'97). Independently we each matched our recollections to the pictures of a destroyer. Attached are copies of the pictures. Sincerely, Alice Rowe and Lisa Perry" ___________________________________________________ [*] Admission of Navy ships in same area as the TWA 800 crash: http://www.erols.com/igoddard/coverup4.htm ___________________________________________ IAN GODDARD'S ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN JOURNAL ------------------------------------------- http://www.erols.com/igoddard/journal.htm - the critics are raving - "Shouldn't this be expunged?...[since] it is spreading fear and suspicion of the government." Lesley Stahl (CBS - 60 Minutes) Call the police! Newsday reports that "another site linked to Goddard's" is linked to another site that "pictures a woman's bare derrierre." BTW, I'm still (drool) looking for that site On CNN, a Federal official said Goddard's TWA 800 inquiry has caused "real damage." ergo: stopping Goddard = damage control GIVING THE BIG LIE A BLACK EYE WITH THE FIST OF ANALYTICAL INQUIRY ___________________________________________ IAN GODDARD'S ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN JOURNAL ------------------------------------------- http://www.erols.com/igoddard/journal.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:00:34 -0600 From: "Brad Alpert" <1911a1@gte.net> Subject: Election night IRC channel for gunners I'm an election night junkie and in '94 when our freedoms were on the line I established an IRC channel for people like me. The idea is that, gunners interested in election night returns from around the country come into the channel using their state's 2-letter abbreviation and report early returns from their local news outlets. I'll be MO and will be reporting on the Bond-Nixon campaign and the hot congressional races from here and look forward to your company. Come join me at 7pm CST Tuesday on #Guns&Liberty on the undernet. Folks who can cover Illinois, Washington, and California are especially welcome. Thanks, Brad *** I will fight until Hell freezes over and then I will fight on the ice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 98 18:59:36 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: [Fwd: IP: Electronic March] (fwd) On Oct 27, Y2J wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Sent to you by: JVS a/k/a Y2J's Prepardeness & Supply "It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark." "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if nothing had happened." - Sir Winston Churchill "It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it." - --Thomas Jefferson to James Lewis, Jr., 1798. "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." --George Orwell Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:58:52 -0600 To: believer@telepath.com From: believer@telepath.com Subject: IP: Electronic March ELECTRONIC MARCH A US grass-roots group has kicked off the Billion Byte March, calling itself the first Internet march on Washington. The aim is to send a million emails to Congress in January, on the day of the State of the Union Address. Why? To reform America's social security system. See http://www.march.org **************************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the message: (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address **************************************************** www.telepath.com/believer **************************************************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 10:49:53 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: GSL> History Channel Tonight (fwd) On Oct 29, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Please pass this message on. Thanks. Kevin McGehee North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ "When you run out of things to say, it's usually wise to stop talking." - -----Original Message----- From: Grubb, Ken To: Multiple recipients of list Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 7:45 AM Subject: FW: GSL> History Channel Tonight >forwarded from GSL > >Ken Grubb >Miami, FL > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Melinda Gierisch [SMTP:gieriscm@hotmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:26 AM >> To: gsl@listbox.com >> Subject: GSL> History Channel Tonight >> >> http://thePentagon.com/FullBookJacket ------------ >> http://GunsSaveLives.com >> >> The History Channel will air tonight, Thursday, October 29th, at 7:00PM >> EST, a program entitled, "Gun Control: The Right To Bear Arms." Please >> pass this message on to friends. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 11:48:12 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Fw: [FP] FW: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones (fwd) On Oct 29, Arlin H. Adams wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - -----Original Message----- From: ScanThisNews To: ScanThisNews Recipients List Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 8:23 AM Subject: [FP] FW: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones >====================================================================== >SCAN THIS NEWS >10/30/98 > >Forwarded: >---------------- > >Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:12:21 -0500 (EST) >From: Ari Schwartz >Subject: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones > > > The Center for Democracy and Technology /____/ Volume 4, Number 27 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - > A briefing on public policy issues affecting civil liberties online >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - > CDT POLICY POST Volume 4, Number 27 October 28, 1998 > > CONTENTS: >(1) FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones >(2) Public Comment Sought - CDT Launches Citizen Action Site >(3) FCC Opens Inquiry into Wiretapping in Packet Networks >(4) Other Surveillance Features >(5) Subscription Information >(6) About CDT > > ** This document may be redistributed freely with this banner intact ** > Excerpts may be re-posted with permission of > > >___________________________________________________________________________ _ >_ > >(1) FCC PROPOSES LOCATION TRACKING FOR WIRELESS PHONES > >Rejecting privacy arguments, the Federal Communications Commission on >October 22 proposed turning wireless phones into location tracking devices. > >Ruling under the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994 >(CALEA), the Commission proposed requiring cellular and other wireless phone >companies to track the location of their customers, identifying the cell >site at the beginning and end of every call. This decision, if finalized, >would allow the FBI to get out of the privacy deal it struck in 1994 when >CALEA was adopted. At the time, the FBI said that location information was >not required by CALEA, and the Congressional intent is 100% clear on the >point. > >For background on CALEA and the FCC's proceeding, see CDT's digital >telephony page: http://www.cdt.org/digi_tele/ > >___________________________________________________________________________ _ >_ > >(2) PUBLIC COMMENT SOUGHT - A CHANCE TO TELL THE FCC THAT CELL PHONE >TRACKING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE! > >The FCC decision on cell phone tracking is only a tentative decision, known >as a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. The Commission is seeking public >comment on its proposal. The public comment period has not been set, but >could be between 30 and 60 days. Until now, the discussion on this issue >has been held by policy-makers in Washington, but this decision will affect >the entire nation. Since this will likely be the only chance for those >outside the beltway to weigh in with a comment, CDT urges citizens to let >their voice be heard. > >CDT has established a special "Action" page to make it easy for citizens to >contact the FCC and file comments opposing the location tracking proposal: >http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html > >___________________________________________________________________________ _ >_ > >(3) FCC LAUNCHES INQUIRY INTO WIRETAPPING IN PACKET NETWORKS > >On a separate issue in the same CALEA proceeding, the Commission agreed >with CDT and other privacy advocates. The FCC said that industry's initial >plan for conducting surveillance in so-called "packet" networks was >insufficient, and the Commission asked for further technical and legal >comment. Packet networks break communications up into many small packets, >each one consisting of a segment of content with addressing information >attached to rout it to its intended destination. Under the industry's >proposal, carriers could have provided to the government a person's entire >packet stream, including both routing information and content, even when >the government did not have the authority to intercept the content of the >communications. CDT argued that the carriers should be required to >separate addressing information from the content of communications and only >give the government what it was authorized to intercept. > >The Commission decided that it needed to launch a technical inquiry. This >could determine the future of surveillance. The question is whether >carriers have an obligation to protect the privacy of communications the >government is not authorized to intercept. > >For CDT's discussion of the packet issue, see: >http://www.cdt.org/digi_tele/980426_fcc_calea.html#ivc >___________________________________________________________________________ _ >_ > >(4) OTHER SURVEILLANCE FEATURES PROPOSED > >On other items sought by the FBI, the Commission tentatively decided that >carriers should be required to continue tapping parties on a conference >call after the subject of the court order has dropped off the call, and to >extract dialed number information from the content stream and provide it to >the government under a minimal standard. In all, the Commission >tentatively accepted five out of nine new surveillance capabilities sought >by the FBI. > >As of today, only a sumamry of the Commission's decision, not the full >NPRM, was not publicly available. CDT will make the full text of the NPRM >available on-line as soon as it becomes public. > >___________________________________________________________________________ _ >____ >(5) SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION > >Be sure you are up to date on the latest public policy issues affecting >civil liberties online and how they will affect you! Subscribe to the CDT >Policy Post news distribution list. CDT Policy Posts, the regular news >publication of the Center For Democracy and Technology, are received by >Internet users, industry leaders, policymakers and activists, and have >become the leading source for information about critical free speech and >privacy issues affecting the Internet and other interactive communications >media. > >To subscribe to CDT's Policy Post list, send mail to > >majordomo@cdt.org > >In the BODY of the message (leave the SUBJECT LINE BLANK), type > > subscribe policy-posts > >If you ever wish to remove yourself from the list, send mail to the above >address with NOTHING IN THE SUBJECT LINE AND a BODY TEXT of: > > unsubscribe policy-posts >___________________________________________________________________________ _ >____ >(6) ABOUT THE CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY/CONTACTING US > >The Center for Democracy and Technology is a non-profit public interest >organization based in Washington, DC. The Center's mission is to develop >and advocate public policies that advance democratic values and >constitutional civil liberties in new computer and communications >technologies. > >Contacting us: > >General information: info@cdt.org >World Wide Web: http://www.cdt.org/ > > >Snail Mail: The Center for Democracy and Technology > 1634 Eye Street NW * Suite 1100 * Washington, DC 20006 > (v) +1.202.637.9800 * (f) +1.202.637.0968 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >End Policy Post 4.27 10/28/98 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - > >------------------------------------ >Ari Schwartz >Policy Analyst >Center for Democracy and Technology >1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100 >Washington, DC 20006 >202 637 9800 >fax 202 637 0968 >ari@cdt.org >http://www.cdt.org >------------------------------------ > >-----Original Message----- >From: believer@telepath.com [mailto:believer@telepath.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 6:05 AM >To: believer@telepath.com >Subject: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones > >======================================================================= >Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: >1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or >2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. >======================================================================= >Reply to: >======================================================================= > To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to > and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. > Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. > For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. > Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: > www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml >======================================================================= [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 11:49:38 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RAPTUS: (Fwd) CAS: WND: Medical mayhem: The Jim McDougal story (fwd) On Oct 29, Rose Bowen wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Medical mayhem: The Jim McDougal story By David T. Nash M.D. Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com Jim McDougal was an interesting man. He was the friend, financial adviser and confidant of some very bright and very powerful people. He enjoyed more than his 15 minutes of fame that most of us are entitled to according to Andy Warhol. Yet there are a number of loose threads in his story that most have never heard of, and many don't seem to want to know about. From a purely medical aspect his final illness points out that even celebrities can have really poor care, if we are to believe the limited amount of data that has been grudgingly released. Some background might be helpful to the uninitiated. Long ago Jim and his wife were partners with another couple, Bill and Hilary Clinton. They participated in a land development scheme that to put it as charitably as possible did not do well and resulted in real and maybe not so valid losses, at least for tax purposes. But the fact was that he was tried, and after a period of several years was found guilty and sent to jail. The role of others in the failure and financial hanky panky is a matter of some debate, and it sort of depends on whether you are a member of one or another political party. What has not really been discussed or even really investigated is the most interesting part -- the medical aspects. Let's start with the facts -- we do have an autopsy which shows (I quote from official records): Severe hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease (This means that he had heart disease from high blood pressure, and hardening of the arteries) Cardiomegaly (his heart was enlarged to 546 grams, a normal male would be 350-400 grams, so he had a big heart, and it was not from being a wonderful giving gentleman, it was because his high blood pressure had not been treated adequately enough) Left ventricular hypertrophy (this means that the wall of his heart was thickened, again this would mean that he could have a severe heart problem because not enough oxygen would be available to meet the extra demands on his heart in case of stress or strain, or cold) Occlusive coronary atherosclerotic disease (hardening of the arteries of his heart which would cause chest pain if he were under stress or frightened or cold (more on this later) Scars of carotid endarterectomy ( He had hardening of the arteries of his neck and an operation was done to clear away the cholesterol filled plaque or narrowing, like rust in an old pipe) Status post aorto-femoral bypass grafts ( This means that he had hardening of the arteries of his legs bad enough to require surgery, and, I believe he used a cane) Once in jail he was given Prozac, an antidepressant, but evidently not other drugs according to some witnesses. (There was Prozac in his blood at autopsy. There is no evidence that he received high blood pressure medicine.) He was asked to give a urine specimen, and did not, saying he could not (an effect of antidepressants). The jail people gave him Lasix ( a diuretic) to force his urine (a drug he did not require otherwise). He was placed in a cold (60-degree) cell in isolation. He complained of chest pain but he was not under observation when he collapsed and died after transfer to the hospital. Now the fascinating part is that here is a man in a nationally discussed case, under supervision in a jail, who is known to have high-blood pressure, known to have high cholesterol, and has had not one but two surgical operations directed at the effects of his cholesterol, and they are not treating his cholesterol. He gets a drug he does not need, when they simply could have given him several glasses of water or tea and waited and he would have given them their requested urine sample. Just think about it, a famous witness dies a needless death with clearly less than adequate medical care. If this is the case with this celebrity, what would you guess is the care of the average Joe/Jane who does not meet the radar of a close examination because they are only important to their loved ones. It seems to me that a closer look at this McDougal Medical Mayhem might be instructive. Maybe he really received excellent care that was not documented. Maybe? David Nash is a medical doctor and clinical professor of medicine. ================================================= Rose Bowen bowenten@swva.net Need a web presence at an affordable cost? Custom Sites and Web Hosting! http://www.sayhello.com/global/ Fax: 212-652-5092 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 11:51:20 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Warning: this post contains material not suitable for children! (fwd) Some of these are good, but I'd like to see one that says, "IMPEACH!", with the word X'd out in red, followed by, "GUILLOTINE!!!". On Oct 29, Arlin H. Adams wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] New Clinton Bumper Stickers If his private life doesn't matter, let him date your daughter. The Clinton Creed: Take Credit - Not Responsibility Today kids no longer play doctor, they play President Jail to the Chief My President Slept with Your Honor Student Bill Clinton: Commander in Heat America needs a President Not a Predator Does character matter YET? Adultery is not a family value Al Gore: One heartthrob from the Presidency Clinton: We forgive you. . .Now Resign! Kennedy = Camelot Clinton = Lie-a-lot HONK! If you had sex with the President One More Whore And We Get Gore It's Perjury Stupid [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:15:06 -0700 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: [Fwd: Washington Deserves Better] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------18361C3923D3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI, the main reason Linda Smith needs to win. It has nothing to do with partisan politics. Regards, Skip. - --------------18361C3923D3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx.seanet.com (dns2.seanet.com [199.181.164.2]) by mailhub.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20720; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:13:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from political (i11.dialup.seanet.com [207.12.128.11]) by mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27268; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:00:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Michael Corwin" To: Subject: Washington Deserves Better Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:19:15 -0800 Message-ID: <005301be0387$22795d80$0300a8c0@political> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Lewiston Morning Tribune October 24, 1998 Washington voters gave Clinton a good lapdog By Michael Costello BODY: I have a question for the breathtakingly mediocre Patty Murray. Patty, how will the recently passed "balanced budget" affect the national debt? Patty Murray arrogantly dismissed Linda Smith, her opponent in the November election, for getting the answer to that question right. Linda Smith correctly stated that to "balance the budget" the federal government was actually manipulating the books. To claim a budget surplus, the federal government has had to borrow from Social Security, technically an "off budget" item. In fact, even if all the revenue and spending predictions come true, the national debt will rise. But according to Ms. Murray, her opponent's evaluation is "a confession she doesn't understand the budget process." Patty Murray either sincerely believes that there is a budget surplus or she is just another of those frauds from both parties who have been spreading this nonsense to political gain. It's probably equal parts of both. There is no evidence that, since at least 1992, Patty Murray has formulated an original thought or uttered a word not placed in her mouth by her party's leadership. She merely parrots what she is told by Hillary Clinton or Tom Daschle and doesn't trouble herself with discovering the truth. And even if she did learn the truth on her own, there is no reason to believe that she would Patty Murray's intellect has never been commensurate with her self-estimation. As a school teacher, she undoubtedly dispensed at least her fair share of self-esteem training. According to this school of educational thinking, convincing a student that he or she is smart is the equivalent of actually educating that student. Patty seems to have convinced herself that she knows what she is talking about even though it can be conclusively proven that she doesn't. But according to one Democratic strategist sent to hold Murray's hand during this campaign, "Patty seemed out of her league. She jumped straight from the state Senate to the Senate. Her office wasn't very well organized and no one could tell you what she had accomplished." I remind you, this evaluation was from a consultant on Patty Murray's own campaign staff. Well I can help out here. Just the other day, I was adding up Patty Murray's accomplishments during her nearly six years in the U.S. Senate. I could only come up with one. She has risen from being the dumbest senator to the second dumbest senator. Oregon's election of inimitable Ron Wyden elevated her to second place. Ron Wyden will always be remembered, and deserves to be remembered, as the senator who could not find Bosnia on a globe during a television interview which touched on the topic of U.S. policy in that tortured country. He'll vote to send your sons to die there, wherever it is. The first, last and probably only splash creditable to Washington's dreary junior senator came during the Robert Packwood debate. The Senate was considering whether or not it should subpoena Sen. Packwood's diary. The debate swirled about the propriety and constitutionality of such an endeavor. Was it proper to read anyone's personal diary? Was this a violation of the Constitution's prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure? All that impenetrable talk of law and etiquette sailed far above Patty's head. And so, the "mom in tennis shoes" decided to interject some down-home logic of the common man (woman?) When her turn came, she marched up to the lectern and shouted, "You still don't get it!" In Patty Murray's view, what that august body failed to grasp was that legal protocols, constitutional obligations and good manners matter not a bit when it came down to dropping the hammer on powerful men who prey sexually on subordinate women. She has not yet made this case in defense of Ken Starr's investigation. The irony is probably beyond her. Whatever irony means. The truth is that, other than that one display of mental mediocrity, Patty Murray has done absolutely nothing to distinguish herself as anything but a predictable vote for whatever Bill Clinton wants. She has even shifted with the unquestioning obedience of a well-trained dog, as when Clinton kept changing his mind on welfare reform. When Clinton was against welfare reform, she was against it. When he changed his mind, she was for it. When he vetoed the bill he had just endorsed and she had just voted for, she supported him. Good dogs don't ponder why they should roll over. Good dogs will do just about anything for a pat on the head. Doesn't the state of Washington deserve better? - --------------18361C3923D3-- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #194 *************************