From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #205 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Sunday, December 20 1998 Volume 02 : Number 205 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 05:52:29 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: SLICK: Natl Call-in (fwd) On Dec 15, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Over half the eligilbe voters boycotted the last election, because _____ [fill in the blank] Less than half of the people who did take time to vote, did NOT vote for Clinton. In other words, 24-25% of the electorate actually took time to vote for him in his "landslide". Don't anyone tell me the polls say 60% want him as president, when that many never took the time ot vote! Rich Martin Editor of Slick Subj: CLNews> URGENT: Contact Your Member Of Congress Now Date: 98-12-13 15:54:34 EST From: advocate_1@prodigy.net (Advocate_1) Sender: owner-commonlawnews-l@smtp.teleport.com Reply-to: advocate_1@prodigy.net To: advocate_1@prodigy.net "From the Chronicles of . . . . . .The Holy Grail" - -----Original Message----- From: charles carter/char carter [mailto:ccarter@mbay.net] Sent: Sunday, December 13, 1998 7:15 AM To: MARY (ARKANSAS) Listed below are the Republican turncoats that are voting against impeachment and their phone numbers!!! Demonstrate in front of their offices in their towns and flood their offices with calls Mon. thru Thurs. of this week. Do not let up!!!! Also remind them that they will loose their elections in the year 2000 if they do not vote to impeach traitor, Clinton!!!!!!!!! Call now!!!!!!! Clinton is sending threatening letters to Republican, Rep. J. Dickey from Arklansas to vote against impeachment from the White House! This guy is what is 'RUNNING OUR COUNTRY AND OUR LIVES????" KEEP CALLING, CALLING, CALLING!!!!! Impeach, impeach, impeach!!!!! >>-----Original Message----- >>>AFA ACTION ALERT 12/11/98 >>> >>>American Family Association <>< >>>Dr. Donald E. Wildmon, President >>>Tim Wildmon, Vice President >>>P.O. Drawer 2440 >>>Tupelo, Mississippi 38803 >>>Telephone 601/844-5036 >>>URL http://www.afa.net >>> >>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >>>CONTACT YOUR MEMBER OF CONGRESS NOW >>> >>>The House of Representatives will probably take up the article(s) of >>>impeachment against President Clinton next Thursday, December 17, 1998. >>> >>>The Judiciary Committee is expected to send to the House floor at least one >>>and perhaps three articles of impeachment accusing the President of: >>>1. lying under oath in the Paula Jones civil suit and in his August 1998 >>>grand jury testimony; >>>2. obstructing justice, including his involvement in Monica Lewinsky's now >>>admittedly false affidavit and conspiring to conceal gifts; and >>>3. abusing the power of the presidency by lying to the American people and >>>his staff. >>> >>>The perjury charge has the best chance of passage on the House floor. The >>>House parliamentarian is expected to rule a substitute resolution of >>>censure "out of order." Impeachment with a conviction is the only >>>constitutional form of Congressional censure of a president. >>> >>>The vote on impeachment could very well be the most important vote by the >>>House of Representatives this century and could determine the fate and >>>future of our Republic as a government of laws, not of men. If impeachment >>>fails, President Clinton will emerge stronger than ever and will found a >>>new class of criminally immune political elitists. >>> >>>Conservatives must remind Members of Congress to uphold their >>>constitutional duty. Failure to impeach Bill Clinton will undermine the >>>rule of law for future generations. America will live with this vote >>>forever. >>> >>>ACTION ITEMS: >>> >>>1. Contact your member of Congress now. Use short, one-message themes like; >>>No one is above the law - and failure to impeach Bill Clinton will >>>undermine the rule of law for future generations. >>> >>>Call Toll Free 1-877-866-6836 (Ask them to connect you with your >>>Representative) >>>Capitol Switchboard 202-225-3121 >>>Point your browser: http://www.house.gov/writerep >>> >>>2. A list of potential "swing" Members follows. These are the "swing" >>>Members who will determine the impeachment decision. Urge them to vote for >>>impeachment and oppose censure. >>> >>>REPUBLICANS NOW EXPECTED TO VOTE AGAINST IMPEACHMENT >>> >>>The Honorable Amo Houghton (R-NY) >>>Phone 202-225-3161 >>>Fax 202-225-5574 >>>E-mail amo.houghton@mail.house.gov >>>mailto:amo.houghton@mail.house.gov >>> >>>The Honorable Peter King (R-NY) >>>Phone 202-225-7896 >>>Fax 202-226-2279 >>>E-mail peter.king@mail.house.gov >>>mailto:peter.king@mail.house.gov >>> >>>The Honorable Jack Quinn (R-NY) >>>Phone 202-225-3306 >>>Fax 202-226-0347 >>>(Rep. Quinn has no public e-mail address) >>> >>>The Honorable Christopher Shays (R-CT) >>>Phone 202-225-5541 >>>Fax 202-225-9629 >>>E-mail rep.shays@mail.house.gov >>>mailto:rep.shays@mail.house.gov >>> >>>The Honorable Mark Souder (R-IN) >>>Phone 202-225-4436 >>>Fax 202-225-3479 >>>E-mail souder@mail.house.gov >>>mailto:souder@mail.house.gov >>> >>>DEMOCRAT MEMBERS WHO MIGHT VOTE FOR IMPEACHMENT >>> >>>The Honorable Virgil Goode (D-VA) >>>Phone 202-225-4711 >>>Fax 202-225-5681 >>>E-mail rep.goode@mail.house.gov >>>mailto:rep.goode@mail.house.gov >>> >>>The Honorable Ralph Hall (D-TX) >>>Phone 202-225-6673 >>>Fax 202-225-3332 >>>E-mail rmhall@mail.house.gov >>>mailto:rmhall@mail.house.gov >>> >>>The Honorable Gene Taylor (D-MS) >>>Phone 202-225-5772 >>>Fax 202-257-7074 >>>E-mail gene.taylor@mail.house.gov >>>mailto:gene.taylor@mail.house.gov >>> >>>Leonard Boswell (D-IA) >>>mailto:rep.boswell.ia03@mail.house.gov >>>Gary Condit (D-CA) >>>mailto:rep.condit@mail.house.gov >>>Bud Cramer (D-AL) >>>mailto:BUDMAIL@mail.HOUSE.GOV >>>Pat Danner (D-MO) >>>No E-mail >>>Bart Gordon (D-TN) >>>mailto:bart.gordon@mail.house.gov >>>Lee Hamilton (D-IN) >>>mailto:hamilton@hamilton.house.gov >>>Chris John (D-LA) >>>mailto:christopher.john@mail.house.gov >>>Jay Johnson (D-WI) >>>mailto:jay.johnson@mail.house.gov >>>Paul McHale (D-PA) >>>mailto:MCHALE@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV >>>Mike McIntyre (D-NC) >>>mailto:CongMcIntyre@mail.house.gov >>>James Moran (D-VA) >>>mailto:jim.moran@mail.house.gov >>>John Murtha (D-PA) >>>mailto:murtha@mail.house.gov >>>Tim Roemer (D-IN) >>>mailto:tim.roemer@mail.house.gov >>>John Spratt (D-SC) >>>mailto:Rep.Spratt@mail.house.gov >>>Charles Stenholm (D-TX) >>>mailto:texas17@hr.house.gov >>>James Traficant (D-OH) >>>mailto:TELLJIM@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV >>> >>>REPUBLICAN MEMBERS WHO MIGHT VOTE AGAINST IMPEACHMENT >>> >>>Brian Bilbray (R-CA) >>>mailto:brian.bilbray@mail.house.gov >>>Sherwood Boehlert (R-NY) >>>mailto:Rep.Boehlert@mail.house.gov >>>Tom Campbell (R-CA) >>>mailto:campbell@mail.house.gov >>>Michael Castle (R-DE) >>>mailto:Delaware@mail.house.gov >>>Lincoln Diaz-Balart (R-FL) >>>No e-mail >>>Jay Dickey (R-AR) >>>mailto:talk2jay@mail.house.gov >>>Michael Forbes (R-NY) >>>mailto:ny01.FORBES@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV >>>John Fox (R-PA) >>>mailto:JON.FOX@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV >>>Bob Franks (R-NJ) >>>mailto:FRANKSNJ@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV >>>Greg Ganske (R-IA) >>>mailto:Rep.Ganske@mail.house.gov >>>Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD) >>>No E-mail >>>Ben Gilman (R-NY) >>>No E-mail >>>David Hobson (R-OH) >>>No E-mail >>>Sue Kelly (R-NY) >>>mailto:DEARSUE@HR.HOUSE.GOV >>>Ray LaHood (R-IL) >>>No E-mail >>>Steve LaTourette (R-OH) >>>No E-mail >>>Jim Leach (R-IA) >>>mailto:talk2jim@mail.house.gov >>>Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ) >>>mailto:lobiondo@mail.house.gov >>>John McHugh (R-NY) >>>No E-mail >>>Constance Morella (R-MD) >>>mailto:rep.morella@mail.house.gov >>>Bob Ney (R-OH) >>>mailto:bobney@mail.house.gov >>>John Porter (R-IL) >>>No E-mail >>>Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL) >>>No E-mail >>>Marge Roukema (R-NJ) >>>No E-mail >>>Jim Saxton (R-NJ) >>>No E-mail >>>Clay Shaw (R-FL) >>>No E-mail >>>John Shimkus (R-IL) >>>mailto:shimkus@mail.house.gov >>>Joe Skeen (R-NM) >>>No E-mail >>>W.J. "Billy" Tauzin (R-LA) >>>No E-mail >>>James Walsh (R-NY) >>>mailto:rep.james.walsh@mail.house.gov >>>Jach Wamp (R-TN) >>>No E-mail >>>Heather Wilson (R-NM) >>>No E-mail >>> >>>3. Send this e-mail to friends and urge them to be "Salt & Light" by taking >>>action and passing this ALERT on to others. >>> >>>================================================= >>>"Spreading Truth on the Information Superhighway" >>>AFA ACTION ALERT >>>Buddy Smith, Editor >>>Please tell a friend about the AFA ALERT >>> >>>To Subscribe to the the AFA Alert Mailing list send e-mail to >>>afalert@afa.net with the word Subscribe in the subject header. You will be >>>automatically added to the alert list. >>>To Unsubscribe to the the AFA Alert Mailing list send e-mail to >>>afalert@afa.net with the word Unsubscribe in >>>the subject header. You will be automatically dropped from the alert list. >>>Please do not e-mail opinions and comments to afalert@afa.net. They are >>>handled electronically and will not be read. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 06:18:44 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Happy Birthday BOR Happy Birthday Bill Of Rights; Adopted this day, in 1791. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 06:19:32 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: [Fwd: IP: (fwd) Pledging Allegiance to the Planet] (fwd) On Dec 15, Y2J wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] schuetzen wrote: > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:16:00 -0500, Smyth@xta.com wrote: > > Message-ID: <003d01be27e1$a88a18a0$903baacf@300mhzpentium2> > From: "Daniel Robert Smyth" > > ................< Begin Forwarded Message >............. > > Pledging Allegiance to the Planet > > GROVE CITY, PA - While school children in Oak Park, IL are pledging > allegiance to the planet (See Education Reporter, October 1998), at least > one elementary school in Grove City, PA, has taken the concept a step > farther. Students are reciting a pledge of allegiance to the world, and > signing a written pledge as well. > > The oral pledge is as follows: > > "I pledge allegiance to the world, to cherish every living thing; to care > for earth and sea and air, with peace and freedom everywhere." > > The written pledge is printed on a certificate-like form that has the United > Nations logo at the top. It reads: > > "Recognizing that people's actions towards nature and each other are the > source of growing damage to the environment and resources needed to meet > human needs and to ensure survival and development, I pledge to the best of > my ability to help make the Earth a secure and hospitable home for present > and future generations." It is followed by a blank signature line. > > According to education researcher and author, Pamela Hobbs-Hoffecker, these > types of pledges are an outgrowth of "International" or "Global" education, > which is usually included in OBE. > > In her 1995 book, Outcome-Based Education, the State's Assault on Our > Children's Values, co-written with fellow researcher Peg Luksik, Hoffecker > states: "International education classes often speak of 'America/Global > Village' in the same breath. They are not synonymous." > > OBE outcomes, she writes, typically call for global education to be > integrated into the entire learning process of American children. "In other > words, all courses teach global citizenship, and parents can't opt their > kids out." > > ................< End Forwarded Message >............. > > Addendum: > > Quotation from the SOUTHERN-STYLE message board: > >>>> > ...for your knowledge (and to help others with questions), the Pledge > appears on page 19 of the CTA/NEA Teacher Handbook entitled "California > Challenge: A Program for Celebrating Diversity- 'Understanding Cultural > Diversity' ". We reviewed this **** document several months ago upon > discovering that our teachers union was offering teacher salary points to > attend workshops on "Making Schools Safe" > http://www.southern-style.com/conflictresolution.htm ], which was > completely about Diversity/Homosexual advocacy. Yes, Our Tax Dollars at > Work!!! > > On page 2 of our newsletter Chalk Talk (June, 1998), we make mention of the > Handbook (see "Teaching Under the Influence"), " A recent CTA (California > Teacher Association)/ NEA Teacher Handbook entitled "Understanding Cultural > Diversity" says, "Teachers play the role of chief transmitter and > interpreter of society's philosophy and values." > <<<< > > Semper Fidelis , > Daniel Robert Smyth - Rockford , Illinois > Http://home.xta.com/Smyth > > **************************************************** > To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: > majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com > with the message: > (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address > > or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address > **************************************************** > www.telepath.com/believer > **************************************************** - -- Sent to you by: JVS a/k/a Y2J "It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark." "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if nothing had happened." --Sir Winston Churchill "It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it." - --Thomas Jefferson to James Lewis, Jr., 1798. "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." --George Orwell Failure to prepare is preparing to fail. --Benjamin Franklin [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:48:12 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: a Constitutional question ``The issue is about principle, not politics,'' Rep. Jack Quinn said in announcing he will now vote for impeachment. ``My decision is based on the clear evidence of perjury and obstruction of justice as presented by the House Judiciary Committee in the last week.'' One undecided moderate, Rep. Michael Castle, R-Del., wrote the GOP leadership today urging a tough censure resolution that would require Clinton to pay at least $2 million in restitution for the costs of the Monica Lewinsky investigation. ``Even at this late date there are compelling reasons to pursue a different course with a better solution for our nation,'' he said. O.K. The above quote is from a Washington Post article, discussing the tide turning against our Beloved President in the House. My question is: How the hell can the U.S. House pass a censure resolution that fines somebody (anybody) $2Million dollars (or two dollars for that matter)? Isn't this a Bill of Attainder, and, hence, unConstitutional? Wouldn't it be grand if it came down to a House censure resolution, ratified by the Senate, and Our Beloved President asked the Supreme Court for an opinion as to whether this was an unConstitutional bill of attainder? Hahaha. Does anyone have a sensible, accurate answer to this question? thanks, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:27:11 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: a Constitutional question Okay, I know its bad form to followup to your own post, but I just can't write anymore verilog code tonight, so I looked this up on some random web site. (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html) - ------------------------------ Article I The Legislative Branch Section 9: [some deletions for brevity] The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed. - ------------------------------ That's pretty clear, "No Bill of Attainder .... shall be passed.". Its even more clear than the Writ of Habeas Corpus, above, which has Rebellion and Invasion as exceptions. Here's a definition: (from the site above) Attainder attainder n. The loss of all civil rights by a person sentenced for a serious crime. [< OFr. attaindre, to convict] Source: AHD In the context of the Constitution, a Bill of Attainder is meant to mean a bill that has an negative effect on a single person. Ok. So we have approx. several score of Constitutional "experts" yapping on TV about "rising to the threshold of impeachment", etc. etc. We also have U.S. Congressmen and "distinquished" former Senators yapping about fines and resolutions of censure. The Constitution seems pretty clear. Congress can't pass a bill that affects a single person negatively. No exceptions, no escape clauses. So the chattering classes are nattering on about using a part of the Constitution that is pretty clearly meant to be used (impeachment) and totally silent on the prohibition of Bills of Attainder. My conclusion: U.S. Constitution, R.I.P. The entire body of commentators, scholars, lawyers and experts have entered the "post-ironic" age, and don't even bother to read the darn thing as they know that what it says is not material. ciao, jcurtis P.S. if you are reading this, congratulations. You may belong to a dwindling body of people who think that the Constitution means something and are willing to learn what it means. Some of you may even believe that the Constitution is still in effect. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:26:59 -0800 From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: a Constitutional question At 05:48 PM 12/15/98 -0500, you wrote: > > My question is: How the hell can the U.S. House pass a > censure resolution that fines somebody (anybody) $2Million > dollars (or two dollars for that matter)? > > Isn't this a Bill of Attainder, and, hence, unConstitutional? > > Wouldn't it be grand if it came down to a House censure > resolution, ratified by the Senate, and Our Beloved President asked > the Supreme Court for an opinion as to whether this was an > unConstitutional bill of attainder? You are correct. It would be a Bill of Attainder. Slick Willie is TRYING to promote such a deal, so that Congress will leave him alone, since they will have "already punished him", but I strongly suspect that in a year or two, he would appeal the penalty, and the Supremes will, quite rightly, overturn it. In short, I believe that Slick Willie will say and do ANYTHING *now* to postpone the problem, and if this involves something that's clearly unconstitutional - well, it has never stopped him before! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) - --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "Self-government won't work without self-discipline... The abandon- ment of self-discipline has ignited a regulatory explosion. The number of government agencies has doubled in ten years. On average, for every new law passed by Congress, unelected bureaucrats turn out 18 new regulations with the force of law. ...Because some loony birds with unbuttoned brains abuse theirs, the federal government is now threatening to take away our fireworks and our firearms. It is down this road that whole nations go from regulation to regimentation to tyranny." Paul Harvey, IMPRIMIS, October 1998. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:59:47 -0800 From: Steve Silver Subject: LSAS's 'ATF Night' 12/17/98 The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society's bi-monthly "ATF Night" takes place Thursday, December 17, 1998, at the San Gennaro Cafe, 9501 Culver Blvd., Culver City (Tel: 310-836-0400) "ATF Night" is an informal evening of adult beverages, cigars and firearms talk. Speakers are strictly kept to a minimum to allow everyone plenty of time to converse and discuss politics (rumors that this month's ATF Night will actually be an "Impeach the Perjuror!" rally are totally unfounded) Social hour begins at 6:30 p.m., dinner at 7:30 p.m. We order off the menu; prices range from $6 to $22, or so. Call the LSAS for more info at: (818) 734-3066. And don't forget: Monica says, "Bring your cigar...." - -- Steve Silver Vice President: The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society, Inc. 18034 Ventura Blvd., No. 329, Encino, CA 91316 (818) 734-3066 The LSAS is a 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation * * * Get the TRUTH About Guns. Visit: http://www.guntruths.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:33:17 -0800 (PST) From: Harry Barnett Subject: Wag the Dog Eerie. Life imitating art... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:04:15 -0800 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: Wag the Dog Harry Barnett wrote: > > Eerie. Life imitating art... > > - I've been thinking and saying Wag-the-dog all afternoon, but Sen Lieberman just stated to Jim Lehrer on the News Hour that this strike has been in semi-automatic mode ever since the last of Saddam's to/from the brink adventures. Lieberman said that congress was briefed several weeks ago that if the leader of the inspection team experienced Iraqi obstructionism again, he and his team would pack up and leave Iraq (as they did yesterday) and strikes would begin when they reported out and safe - i.e., our endless threats made good, finally. That's plausible - but like any thinking person, it's impossible to ignore the Clinton factor. Regards, Skip. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Dec 98 16:30:26 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Wag the Dog On Dec 16, Harry Barnett wrote: >Eerie. Life imitating art... Again, and again, and.... Isn't this about the seventh or ninth time he's pulled this same crap? - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Dec 98 16:31:03 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: The Left has formed phone banks and are pushing hard against Impeachment (fwd) On Dec 16, Jurist wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - - Don't let them win once again. Attention RKBA Defenders, This is no time to get comfortable. This morning I called every fence- sitting representative on this page. Please call and say "please tell the Representative to vote for impeachment" and then move onto the next representative. The e-mail servers have been backed up and are no longer even being read. Your call really does count! We need to get this guy out! Fourty minutes out of your lifetime in what may be the last best chance of casting out this abomination. http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3674cc9939ea.htm Thank you so very much. Rick V. >"Still if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - -- Winston Churchill. - -- The Right to Self Defense is a Fundamental Human Right - RKBA [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 98 14:06:54 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RAPTUS: FW: Clinton Endangers Troops (fwd) On Dec 17, Rose Bowen wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Clinton Endangers Troops Freedom Watch 12/16/1998 Ron Paul WASHINGTON, DC -- As US troops prepared to once again be used as political pawns by the President, Rep. Ron Paul called on Bill Clinton to resign for the good of the country and the safety of American soldiers. "Once again President Clinton is using American troops to deflect attention from his record of lies, distortions, obstruction of justice and abuse of power," said Rep. Paul after arriving in Washington on Wednesday afternoon. "Just a couple months ago, the president launched an attack against the nation of Sudan in an attempt to cover over his personal problems; an attack which we know now had no basis whatsoever in protecting US interests." Paul said the Clinton ruse with Iraq is not only shameful, but recklessly dangerous. "Even if one can look past the constitutional prohibition against the US policing the world, the timing of this new attack against Iraq screams of hypocrisy by a president who has shown a complete disregard for our military, our Constitution and our national defense," said Rep. Paul, a former Air Force flight surgeon. "Iraq has been 'disobeying' the United Nations for years now, but suddenly, on the verge of his impeachment, this president decides to launch an attack, in essence an unconstitutional declaration of war." Rep. Paul said that it is "despicable for a man who ran from military service to now use soldiers as a shield from impeachment." "How many American soldiers and innocent Iraqi children will die so that this president can hide from justice? How many American citizens are now at increased risk from terrorist attack because of this president? How much innocent blood will have to flow to cover this president's sins? This attack has no basis in protecting our national security and only increases the danger to our people." ================================================= Rose Bowen bowenten@swva.net Need a web presence at an affordable cost? Custom Sites and Web Hosting! http://www.sayhello.com/global/ Fax: 212-652-5092 ICQ #405591 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 98 14:06:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Pirates of Pennsylvania Avenue (fwd) On Dec 17, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] My contacts at the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy(tm) have provided the following transcript from another White House audio, this during an Oval Office meeting about Iraq. ================================== THE PRESIDENT: Cohen, I need to know that you're with me on this. You used to be a Republican, so at a time like this I need to know where your loyalties lie. JAMES CARVILLE: Heh-heh-heh. Bill, you said "lie." SECRETARY COHEN: Mr. President, I am the very model of a modern Clinton liberal. I've information fallacious, nefarious and criminal. I can go on Sunday talk shows if I've heard the White House spin before, And whistle every tune from that infernal nonsense "Pinafore." CARVILLE: He has information fallacious, nefarious and criminal, He is the very model of a modern Clinton liberal. COHEN: I'll quote the White House line that this is national security, And viciously attack all those who dare impugn your purity. To those who do cite "Wag the Dog" I'll claim it is coincidence, My tone will be quite snotty in my disdain for their insolence. CARVILLE: To those who do cite "Wag the Dog" he'll claim it is coincidence, His tone will be quite snotty in his disdain for their insolence. His fate is tied to yours, he is no longer individual, He is the very model of a modern Clinton liberal! COHEN: My fate is tied to yours, I am no longer individual, I am the very model of a modern Clinton liberal! ================================== Hmmmmmmmm....... Kevin McGehee Fairbanks/North Pole, AK mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Heroism is individual; evil is collective. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 98 16:39:05 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Additional information (fwd) On Dec 17, Doug Spittler wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >-----Original Message----- >From: Philip Van Cleave >To: va-rkba@listbox.com >Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 12:58 AM >Subject: VA-RKBA! SAF to sue Chicago and New Orleans! > > >>I was listening to Tom Gesham's "Gun Talk" show on the internet this >>Sunday. He was interviewing Alan Gotlieb of the Second Amendment >>Foundation. Allan said that SAF is getting ready to sue Chicago, New >>Orleans, Handgun Control Inc, Violence Policy Center and any other city >>that signs on to sue gun manufacturers and dealers. Apparantly he is >>seeing a ground swell of support on this issue. >> >>They are taking a civil "RICO" approach saying that the cities, HCI and VPC >>are conspiring to deny American citizens their civil rights by destroying >>the gun manufacturers with frivolous law suits. It will also open up the >>cities, HCI and VPC to discovery looking for illegal conspiracy with the >>cities. The cities and HCI will not be able to communicate with this kind >>of suit pending, otherwise proving conspiracy would be much simpler. >> >>I ***love*** being on the offense. I look forward to Chicago, New Orleans, >>and HCI getting their asses kicked. A RICO violation could have some >>severe punishments. (They can't try for a criminal RICO because the know >>that Jane Reno would never back anything that would be pro-2nd Amendment.) >>SAF is looking for more contributions for this most worthy cause. >> >>Philip Van Cleave >>Virginia Systems, Inc. >>5509 West Bay Court >>Midlothian, VA 23112-2506 >> >>Telephone: (804) 739-3200 >>Fax: (804) 739-8376 >>Home Page: >>EMail: philip@virginiasystems.com >>--------------------------- >>VA-RKBA WEB: http://www.wizard.net/~kc/varkba.html >> >>This list is governed by an acceptable use >>policy: http://www.wizard.net/~kc/policy.html >>and available upon request. >> >>To unsubscribe send a message to majordomo@listbox.com >>with the following line in the body: >> >>unsubscribe va-rkba >> >>VA-RKBA IS A PROJECT OF GUNSSAVELIVES(TM) >> >>VA-RKBA IS A PRIVATE UNMODERATED >>LIST. THE OWNER TAKES NO >>RESPONSIBILTY FOR CONTENT. >>ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Dec 98 22:16:21 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: In the Wilderness: 19 Dec 98 (fwd) On Dec 19, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] IN THE WILDERNESS (c) 1998 KEVIN McGEHEE North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Permission granted to anyone wishing to forward, redistribute, or broadcast this article WITH FULL ATTRIBUTION. ================================================================ THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAKING HISTORY AND BEING HISTORY He is, officially, the 42nd President of the United States. He is the 41st man to hold the office, but only the 36th to be elected to it. Four presidents succeeded upon the deaths of their respective predecessors and never won election, including Andrew Johnson; a fifth, Gerald R. Ford, succeeded upon the resignation of his predecessor and failed in his 1976 election bid. And Grover Cleveland, who served two non-consecutive terms, is counted twice in the official tally. Like all of his predecessors, he has achieved certain firsts. He is the first Arkansan ever to become president. He is the first ever to have been born after the end of World War II. He is (I believe) the first left-hander ever to be elected to a second term. In this half of the 20th Century, he is the first president to see his party gain seats in the House in off-year elections during his second term. He is *not* the first president to have had his name changed -- in his case, from William Jefferson Blythe to William Jefferson Clinton when he was adopted by his stepfather Roger Clinton. Leslie Lynch King, Jr. was adopted and renamed after his adoptive father, Gerald Rudolph Ford. And Ulysses S. Grant's real first name was Hiram; his name was changed in a clerical error at West Point. He is only the third president ever to be the subject of articles of impeachment placed before the House of Representatives. With the House today approving two articles, he becomes only the second ever to be impeached. That presidential impeachment has occurred only twice in the 209-year history of our Constitution, is encouraging. That impeachment articles were generated twice in just the last 25 years, is not. Regardless of whether this exercise forces him from office before his term expires, Bill Clinton's presidency must be seen as a *symptom* rather than a cause of what has gone wrong with our country. Just as abuse of power wasn't "cured" when Richard Nixon resigned, it will not pass into oblivion with Clinton's departure. It is axiomatic to say these days that Clinton's legacy will be a negative one, but that would be an oversimplification because it's not entirely his own. The negative legacy that many will attribute to Bill Clinton was not created by him. It was allowed to create itself during this century -- and to a great extent that phenomenon occurred before he was even born. Members of the "Baby Boom" generation aren't altogether to blame for the generation's faults, only for the evils each of them has committed. Nor were the radical 1930s socialist college professors altogether to blame for twisting the Boomers' world view into such a mess -- after all, the Boomers' parents allowed it -- but the profs are guilty of teaching falsehoods to millions of young skulls full of mush. At every step in the process that created this sad moment in American history, men and women made choices of their own free will, and in nearly every case it was a choice to trade what was right for what was easy, convenient, or personally beneficial. This is what it means to be created in the image of God. Each of us chooses between salvation and perdition. Nor is it a choice made in some kind of tremendous, earth-shattering moment, what has come to be referred to as "a religious experience." The choice is made in the smallest of ways, with the wrong choice being easily rationalized: "I need it more than he does." "It's such a trifle, it won't make any difference." "I'm too important to take the consequences for such a small thing." "It's not sex if she keeps her clothes on." On the very eve of the President's impeachment, support for impeaching him was found (in a poll) to be still less than a majority. It's almost certain that the margin of victory in the House consisted of members who did the right thing only because they found that, politically, they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. If there is any lesson to be drawn from this, it is that sometimes people will do the right thing even if they don't want to. Even if they're afraid. Even if, given the chance, they'd do the wrong thing if it's easier, more convenient, or more personally beneficial. This is what it means to be born of ashes and dust. Bill Clinton is not a self-made man. His place in history may fit him like a glove, but he didn't create it without help. If he continues to make wrong choices and do wrong things, the Senate should convict him of at least one of the two articles under which he was impeached today. They should remove him from office and ban him forever from holding the public trust that he has so grievously abused. They should add to Bill Clinton's list of firsts: First president to be removed from office through impeachment. The Senators have the choice: do the right thing and make history, or do the wrong thing and ensure that our nation will soon BE history. - -30- December 19, 1998 ================================================================ **Visit the IN THE WILDERNESS archives** http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/advance.htm The views expressed herein are entirely those of the author(s), and do not reflect those of any person or group with whom the author(s) may be affiliated, unless explicitly labelled as doing so. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #205 *************************