From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #238 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Friday, May 7 1999 Volume 02 : Number 238 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 May 99 11:17:47 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: [Fwd: What youcan do to stop the war] (fwd) On May 04, MarkAnge wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: RichSlick@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 01:52:32 EDT Subject: What youcan do to stop the war Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 13:15:53 -0700 To: asatru@oro.net From: GrayFox65@aol.com (by way of Stephen A. McNallen) Subject: Fwd: Stop the war on Yugos Greetings, all! Within five minutes of receiving this email, YOU can take a shot at the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization and the NWO! Pass it on! FREEDOM! Steve McNallen Seth Fehrs 04/30/99 04:00 PM To: Carolyn Saunders/CanCtr/mc/Duke@mc, Jeff Allred/CanCtr/mc/Duke@mc cc: Subject: Stop the war on Yugos [letter to forward to your friends and family] I'm participating in an Internet campaign to stop the war in Yugoslavia before ground troops are deployed, and I'd like to invite you to join me. Please forward this message to any friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, or other people you know personally who may be interested. Then go to http://www.StopTheWarNow.com and sign the petition. You can add your personal comments to the petition. It will then be submitted directly to your representative in the U.S. House and to both your U.S. Senators. Every day that this undeclared war continues, it becomes more likely that ground troops will be deployed, and that we will find ourselves in another Vietnam-style quagmire. As the war escalates, it will become increasingly difficult for politicians to admit that they made a mistake, end the war, and bring our troops home. The bombing of Yugoslavia is a textbook example of the folly of foreign intervention: So far, the US-NATO air assault has accomplished the exact opposite of what President Clinton promised. Our bombardment has prompted more attacks on innocent civilians, worsened the plight of refugees, caused the conflict to spill over to neighboring nations, and inflamed anti-American sentiments around the world. Bombing errors have resulted in the deaths of refugees -- the very people we are supposed to be protecting. We acknowledge the terrible human suffering of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo - -- suffering which has been exacerbated by our reckless attack on Yugoslavia. However, that tragedy does not justify American military intervention that puts our nation at risk. The job of the American military is to defend the United States and to keep Americans safe. Instead, our air assault on Yugoslavia has reduced our military preparedness, reignited Cold War tensions with Russia, and made us a more tempting target for terrorists. If the American people don't speak out, the war will continue to escalate, ground troops will be eventually be deployed, and American casualties will rise. If we don't want that to happen, we must persuade our representatives in Congress to stop the war now. Please forward this e-mail to everyone you know who might be interested in helping, but please don't send it indiscriminately -- spam will only hurt our campaign. Then go to our web page (http://www.StopTheWarNow.com) and sign the petition. Thank you. The Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/ 2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100 voice: 202-333-0008 Washington DC 20037 fax: 202-333-0072 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 99 11:18:36 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Clinton don't approve of Milosevic's methods (fwd) Do you know anyone down in Salt Lake City? We can't afford to let this sort of thing happen unremarked, anywhere, but we can't just jump salty over nothing either. On May 4, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Subj: Fwd: Salt Lake City - SWAT Teams attack park patrons Date: 5/3/99 11:31:04 PM EST From: elan@carroll.com (Devon Joshua., Millwood is Kidnaped by N.J. Div. of Youth & Family Services; Held Hostage by Darlene Stewart. 201- 868-6237) >From: >Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:06:54 EDT >Subject: Fwd: Salt Lake City - SWAT Teams attack park patrons >To: elan@carroll.com > > >Return-Path: >Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) > by air-zd05.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Mon, 03 May 1999 14:48:40 > -0400 >Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net > [207.217.120.12]) > by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with ESMTP id OAA17758; > Mon, 3 May 1999 14:48:33 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from chuckm (1Cust60.tnt7.phoenix.az.da.uu.net [63.14.199.60]) > by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA17885; > Mon, 3 May 1999 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT) >Message-Id: <199905031847.LAA17885@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Comments: Authenticated sender is >From: "Solutions International" >To: freedom@earthlink.net >Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:46:41 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >Subject: Salt Lake City - SWAT Teams attack park patrons >Priority: normal >X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.41) > >Dear Friends, > >A few days ago, I receive this rather disturbing e-mail forwarded >from a friend. It sounded so outlandish that I didn't feel >comfortable forwarding it at that point. However, I have now >confirmed this information is indeed true and is something to which >we should all pay close attention. This is an example of how >pseudo-Martial Law was implemented for all the wrong reasons in the >wrong place at the wrong time. Will we stand by and let more of this >abuse happen in other parts of the country? > >Please read and take whatever action you deem appropriate. > >Peace and Prosperity, > >Jeff > > > >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:57:07 -0700 (PDT) >From: "L.D. Parable" >To: Jeffrey Howard > >Jeff, > >Please pass this along to your group: > >Date: 29 Apr 1999 18:44:46 GMT>Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-liberties >>To: BobHirschfeldJD@how2.org>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com >>References: <01be914a$38d45700$e83384ce@kfvtjuml>>From: >itsmoi@aol.com (ItsMoi) >>Subject: MARSHALL LAW PROVEN IN UTAH SOS >>X-UIDL: 52ec387f2720c939c6c3935b4b99a4c9> >> My name is Claudia K. White. I am a 35 yo female, with a >Bachelorsdegree of >>science. I live in SLC, Utah. One week ago sunday Cheif of >policeOrtega, >>sent a swat teamm into Liberty park. The religious and the rest ofthe >>community go to the park every sunday. Which consists of >mostlyfamilies, >>Vetrans, indians, young teens and small children. ( This is our >1stamendment >>right).> The Swat team proceed to sweep the park as if it was Penn >State or >Ten..>Square. The Swat team was fully armed in riot gear and weapons. >People where>bulgened with billy clubs. Ticketed and force out of the >park. >> I personall y was attacked hit 6 times and was hit by a billy >clubwhich >>factured my fibula on my left leg. My library book " The >USConstitution and >>Case Summaries" was torn from my hands and ripped apart. >> We where marched out of the park by the Swat team. At no time >didwe resist >>arrest orshow any violence towards the officers. >> We left the boundaries of the park as ordered to do. At which >timewe got >>permission from the property owner ( approx 1300 so. & 600 East) >tostay on his >>property. He too goes to the drum circle. >> At this time cheif of Police Ortega arrived at the scene. >Ipersonally >>tried to reason with him to no avail. Police Cheif Ortega would >noteven speak >>with us, me or anyother Adult at the scene; for by this time >thecrowd had >>dispersed and only a handful of mostly under age kids where present. >> Cheif Ortega ordered his troops to began a military type attack >onthe crowd >>of teens and the few adults left. The officers, approximately 20 >withfull >>riot gear, had fully loaded semi automatic weapons pointed >executionstyle at >>our backs as they marched us off the private property and up the >cityowned >>street,( 4 city blocks) protecting themselves with bullet >proofsheilds. The >>Swat team forced us across the street to another park and left >thescene. >> At no time did the Police return and tell any of us we could >reenter the >>park to gather our belongings, our vehicles, or did they tend to >theinjured. >> . 16 citations were issued for alcohol and small amounts of >maujuana.None for >>weapons. The city as of this time has not taken any action >agianstOrtega the >>officers or Mayor Deedee Corridini, Nor offered any type of >publicapology. >> The Mayor, Cheif of police and the Governer hold equal liability >inthis >>incidence. For the evening before was Earthday at the Liberty Park. >> At the Earth Jam festival Mayor Deedee Corridini sent >arepresentative to >>speak on her and the IOC plans of building a apatheater in the park. >This >>would entail digging up a old burial ground and A historic home >ofIsaac Chase >>and Brigham Young, built in the early 1800's. >> I personally have contacted the ACLU and NPR radio. The News mediais >>rufusing to run this as a National emergency. >> The Attorney General of Utah< Jan Graham, has no Civil authority >inthe State >>of Utah. As Governer Mike Leavitt and the house of represntatives >ofUtah voted >>and stripped her of these rights. >> This proves the well known theory that the United States of >Americais no >>longer and hasn't been for quite sometime, governed by >theConstitution of the >>United States of America, nor Virginia Bill of Rights. Otherwise >putthe United >>States at least for the early 60's has been under Marshall Law. >APolice >>state, as was Vietnam. >> I believe I speak for all Americans when isay we are not >AntiPolice, We >>are Anti Police State. We are willing to give to Ceasar what >isCeasar's. >>But after that the federal government is requied to acts >asMagistrates, just >>and the Bill of rights directs them to do " Serve the People"..... >Inother >>worlds they are to be Noble and act as our waiters, (ie. servants,civil >>servants).> Please contact your Local and federal government on this >matter. >And please>contact the Media. As I have tried with no avail in Salt >Lake City >Utah. Be>reassured I have contacted everyone in my State and the ACLU. >> We all must speak out on this matter or the proverbial they >willcontinue >>running, destroying, and robbing us of our " inalienable, >infeasible"rights >>of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". >> I would also like to note on behalf of Utah State that Senator >OrinHatch, >>Mayor Deedee Corridini, and Cheif of Police Ortega, are not even >fromthe State >>of Utah. The aforementioned, Governer Mike Leavitt, President >Clintonand VP Al >>Gore. are refusing to face this as a matter of Nation Importance >andState of >>Emergency. This I hold to be of gross Maladministeration > >SOLUTIONS INTERNATIONAL >Maximizing Personal Potential >http://www.1999.com/solutions > >"No man is free until he learns to do his own thinking >and gains the courage to act on his own personal initiative." >- Napoleon Hill > A PUBLIC DEFENDER IS A "JUDAS GOAT" FIND AND POST THE LINCOLN PRIVATE PAPERS NON-CONSTITUTIONAL, AND UN-CONSTITUTIONAL ARE NOT THE SAME THING To receive posts from this list send an E-MAIL to me with the word "subscribe" in the subject box. To be removed from this list send a post to me with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject box. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 99 15:50:17 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: More Police State Horrors in Britain (fwd) On May 4, Dr Sean Gabb wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] This is a review article by Edward Hume from the latest issue of Free Life: Explanatory Paper on Draft Regulations to Restrict the Use of Lead Shot Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions DETR, London, April 1999, 28pp., free (pbk) (No ISBN) Published on the 6th April 1999, this seems from its name a comparatively harmless proposal. The Regulations - effective as of the 1st September 1999 unless they are defeated - would ban the use of lead shot on "Sites of Special Scientific Interest" and below high water of ordinary spring tides, and ban the use of lead shot for hunting various game birds. It is regrettable that most laws nowadays are never debated in Parliament, but simply issue in the name of a Minister under some enabling act that may have been taken through Parliament but was never itself discussed there. It is regrettable that the authorities should not only have banned most guns from private ownership, but also be regulating the composition of what may be fired from the few that remain. Even so, this surely is small stuff compared with the horrors pouring almost daily out of the Home Office. Or is it? Let us look at Regulation 4: (1) A person who appears suitable to the Secretary of State or a local authority may be authorised in writing by the Secretary of State of that local authority to exercise, in accordance with the terms of the authorisation, any of the powers specified in paragraph (2) below for the purpose of determining whether any provision of these Regulations is being, or has been, complied with. These powers include: (a) to enter at any reasonable time any premises which he has reason to believe it is necessary for him to enter;... (c) to make such examination and investigation as may in any circumstances be necessary It is not necessary for authorised persons to obtain warrants for entry onto private property, or to have good cause for entry, or to be limited in what they may inspect and seize. There is provision made later on for obtaining warrants, but this is only if entry has been or probably will be refused and force may be needed to effect an entry. In any event, the mere act of requiring authorised persons to obtain warrants is to be a crime. According to Regulation 5(2), Any person who intentionally onstructs a person acting in the exercise of any power under regulation 4 above shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. "Summary conviction" - that means trial by Magistrate, not by Jury, and therefore the near certainty of conviction without hearing. And just to complete the bundle of powers given to these authorised persons, see Regulation 4(9): An authorised person, including a person designated under paragraph (4) above, shall not be liable in any civil or criminal proceedings for anything done in the purported exercise of any power conferred by this regulation if the court is satisfied that the act was done in good faith and that there were reasonable grounds for doing so. We are talking, therefore, about an arbitrary power of entry, search and seizure, with criminal punishments for resistance, and no legal redress for abuse of this power. Not even under Jack Straw have the normal Police yet been given all the powers of a Gestapo. Such powers have been given to these faceless and uniformed authorised persons under a piece of delegated legislation that, but for the efforts of the Countryside Alliance, would have slid silently into the laws of this country. There are about 20,000 pages of other delegated legislation made every year in the same way. No one reads it all. No one knows what it contains. So much for parliamentary democracy! Edward Hume (Editor's Note: Comments on these proposed Regulations may be made in writing to Mr J. Chorley, DETR, Room 902a, Tollgate House, Houlton Street, Bristol, BS2 9DJ, Fax: 0117 987 8182, e-mail: species@detr.gsi.gov.uk. Comments should reach Mr Chorley before the 14th May 1999. The Countryside Alliance can be reached on 0171 582 5432. - -- Dr Sean Gabb | "Over himself, over his own | E-mail: old.whig@virgin.net | body and mind, the individual| | is sovereign" | Mobile Number: 0956 472199 | J.S. Mill, On Liberty, 1859 | [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 99 08:40:04 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Let the PTA know your th (fwd) On May 4, by way of Douglas Davis wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:14:24 -0400 From: David Adams Strange how this one did not get ANY press play. Even the headline >down-plays the intent of the driver. ... Warren >> >CAR HITS SCHOOLYARD; 2 TODDLERS DIE > >By Deborah Hastings >Associated Press Writer >Tuesday, May 4, 1999; 7:05 p.m. EDT > >COSTA MESA, Calif. (AP) -- A man who told police he wanted to `execute'' >innocent children plowed through a day care center playground with his >car, killing two toddlers and injuring five people, authorities say. > >When the big Cadillac finally came to a stop, pinning several children >underneath, he calmly sat behind the wheel until police arrested him >Monday. > >'`Why he picked yesterday, why he picked this school, why he picked >these kids, we don't know,'' Lt. Ron Smith said Tuesday. > >Steven Allen Abrams, 39, of Santa Ana was arrested for investigation of >murder and assault with a deadly weapon after driving his car into the >Southcoast Early Childhood Learning Center schoolyard. He was held >without bail pending his arraignment Wednesday. > >``I was going to execute these children because they were innocent,'' >Abrams told detectives, according to Smith. > >Abrams didn't know anyone in the school but was familiar with the >neighborhood, where he lived five years ago before a split with his >girlfriend, Smith said. He was eventually convicted of stalking the >woman. > >``In his mind he associated the school with the neighborhood he used to >live in,'' Smith said. > >Sierra Soto, 4, and Brandon Wiener, 3, were killed. Nicholas McHardy, 2, >and Victoria Sherman, 5, were in critical condition with head injuries. >Danielle Knecht, a 24-year-old teacher's aide, was in fair condition >with a broken leg. > >Two other children, ages 2 and 3, were treated for scrapes and bruises >and released. > >`I've been a cop for 20 years and I have never seen anything where >someone deliberately drove a car into a playground and killed children. >It's unfathomable to me,'' Smith said. > >Abrams worked at a concert ticket agency that was owned by his >brother-in-law. > >Forty-five minutes before the schoolyard killings, he rammed his car >into another vehicle that cut him off on a freeway, Smith said. > >At the day care center, an angry crowd of neighbors, parents and workers >from a nearby church jeered as he was led away in handcuffs. > >There was no sign Abrams was under the influence of drugs or alcohol, >police said. > >Meanwhile, the school was closed indefinitely Tuesday, and a memorial >service was scheduled for Wednesday night at the church across the >street. > >A shrine formed at the school -- a mount of bouquets, balloons, stuffed >animals and cards. A cross erected in the playground read, ``Dear God, >please protect our children.'' > >``A man who would do something like this doesn't deserve to live,'' said >Ann Pecora, fighting back tears as gripped the hand of her 4-year-old >daughter, Gina, who was one of the lucky toddlers Monday. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 99 09:31:12 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: From the Denver Post, about parents of the Tec-9 seller Well, there we have it. Now where are the headlines, "Anti-Gun Morons raise Colorado Killer"? Perhaps some sort of bumper sticker or protest sign could made out of this: "Gon Owners raise responsible kids, Gun Controllers raise Colorado KILLERS!" Hmmmmm, maybe with a little work..... On May 5, RHill@MICKEY.GC.WHECN.EDU wrote: >http://www.denverpost.com/news/shot0505c.htm > > >Ransome said Manes' parents, Diann and Michael, are devastated. > >Diann Manes is a longtime member of the anti-handgun group Handgun Control. > >"Their feelings and prayers go out to everybody affected by the events at >Columbine,'' Ransome said. "Mark grew up in a house where no weapons were >present. Both parents preached to Mark the evilness of handguns.'' > >Ransome said he couldn't explain "Mark's fascination with handguns.'' Maybe >it was a child's rebellion against his parents. "Mom said one thing and he >did another.'' > >The lawyer said he expects his client will plead guilty to some charge. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 99 11:41:59 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: Thomas Sowell - Holding parents responsible (fwd) On May 5, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Williams To: Bonnie Williams Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 8:49 AM Subject: Thomas Sowell - Holding parents responsible May 4, 1999 /18 Iyar 5759 Thomas Sowell Holding parents responsible OF ALL THE IRRATIONAL IDEAS that have been thrown around in the wake of the high school shootings in Littleton, Colorado, one of the most reckless is the proposal to hold parents legally responsible for what their children do. Whether the particular parents of the particular young killers who committed this particular massacre had knowledge in advance that would make them criminally liable is something for a court of law to decide. What is at issue is whether parents in general should be held legally liable for their children's acts. Responsibility and control go together. For decades now, our laws and our educational system have consistently undermined parental authority. Yet new legal responsibilities for parents are being proposed after parental control has been eroded. Preschoolers are taught that their parents have no right to spank them. All sorts of propaganda programs in the schools -- from so-called "drug prevention" to "sex education" -- stress that each individual makes his or her own decisions, independently of parental or societal values. Most people have no idea how pervasive and unremitting are the efforts to drive a wedge between children and their parents and to replace parental influence with the influence of teachers, counselors and even the children's similarly immature peers. Many of the books, movies, and other materials used in the public schools mock parents as old windbags who are behind the times. "Trust-building" exercises teach students to rely on their classmates. Handing out condoms in school and giving girls abortions behind their parents' backs are just isolated manifestations of this underlying philosophy, which reaches far beyond sexual matters. Nor are these just idiosyncrasies of particular teachers or schools. There are nationwide networks -- some of them government-sponsored -- which have disseminated pre-packaged programs designed to wean school children away from the values with which they have been raised and mold them to the values of self-anointed agents of "change." The materials used and the things said in these materials would simply have to be seen to be believed. I certainly would never have imagined such things before doing research for my book "Inside American Education." My assistant said she had trouble sleeping after seeing some of the movies shown to school children. Invasions of family privacy with diary assignments and other intrusions are all part of the same mindset. So are groups like the so-called Children's Defense Fund, which seek legal powers to impose their notions of how children should be raised. Hillary Clinton's pious hokum that "it takes a village" to raise a child is more of the same. What all these efforts have in common, aside from an arrogant presumption of superiority, is a drive for power without responsibility. They don't even take responsibility for their own activities, which are hidden, denied or camouflaged. Above all, they are not prepared to be held accountable for the consequences of their playing with children's minds. Columbine High School was in the news long before the recent tragic shootings there. It was featured in a "20/20" broadcast about "death education" back in 1991. This macabre subject is one of the endless procession of brainwashing programs that are taking up time sorely needed for academic work in schools across the country. One of the Columbine students who is now grown blames the course's morbid preoccupation with death for her own unsuccessful attempt at suicide. Zealots who are pushing New Age notions of death under the guise of "education" are undeterred by parental protests that their children are having nightmares or depression. The "educators" who have been on a brainwashing ego trip have done their best to cover their own tracks. Manuals accompanying some of these programs show how to evade and mislead parents and the public. Running through all these programs is the notion that morality is optional: If it feels good to you, do it! We will never know how good it felt to those young killers to shoot down those around them. Nor can we know how much the school's own reckless experiments with brainwashing contributed to the tragedy. But it is truly galling to have those who have been undermining both morality and parents for years now demand that parents be held legally responsible for the acts of their children. (JWR) ---- (http://www.jewishworldreview.com) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:16:03 -0400 (EDT) From: John Curtis Subject: Economist editorial on privacy in the information age Good editorial here on the terrors and travails of essentially no privacy in the electronic age. jcurtis http://www.economist.com/editorial/freeforall/current/sf1247.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 99 10:45:40 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: One injured at Columbine was Shooter..If he'd only had his (fwd) I'm not sure about how to find out what their e-addr is, but most hospitals are connected to the internet these days, so maybe someone can arrainge for Sean and others to have a temporary email account there at the horse pistol. Just a thought..... On May 5, by way of Joe Sylvester wrote: >Posted by Screw the Anti's on May 02, 1999 at 18:44:26: >If you were a shooter and needed to recuperate in a hospital, wouldn't it >help you to know there were other shooters out there pulling for you ? > >Sean Graves, 15, was injured critically in the Columbine HS shootings. His >status has been upgraded to serious and improving. He is a member of High >Plains Marksmen, a CMP club in Colorado. >Letters and cards can be sent to: >Sean Graves >c/o Swedish Hospital >501 E. Hampden Ave. >Englewood, Co 80110 >or faxed to (303) 788-6029 >Let him know we care! >******************************** > > >Dennis J. (Joe) Sylvester >Senior Research Engineer >Div. 09 X2188 >DJSylvester@swri.org - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 May 99 21:40:04 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: LEGISLATIVE ALERT (fwd) On May 6, Paul A. Miller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: Chris Knox Subject: LEGISLATIVE ALERT Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 13:45:34 -0700 (MST) - ----- Forwarded message from Neal Knox ----- May 6 Legislative Alert Congress has put gun legislation on a high-speed track. The present plan is for the Senate to vote May 18-20 on a string of gun and other amendments to the Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Act, which is up for reauthorization. The House will vote on the bill the following week. Some are talking about having a bill on President Clinton_s desk before the Memorial Day recess. I can_t believe Congress will move that quickly, but this thing will be moving quickly. Amendments will be offered to cover everything from total registration to one-gun-per-month to "instant check" on private gun show and black powder transfers, and about everything else you can think of. To set the tone, Clinton will have a White House conference Monday, but I don_t know who all will be there. According to one report I picked up from a reliable source this morning, the Republican leaders have agreed to the accelerated schedule, but they_re trying to talk about the cultural problems that cause kids to shoot their classmates, while the Democrats are focussing on guns and gun laws. House Judiciary Chairman Henry Hyde, who will hold hearings next week, is no friend of gunowners. A lot more Republicans are trying to put togeter a "proactive package," which scares me. NRA staff has virtually agreed to some of the less-sweeping provisions that have been proposed, judging from Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre_s speech Saturday. This is coming from the Columbine High School massacre, of course, for the anti-gun crowd is never happier, nor more effective, than when dancing in the fresh blood of victims. SPREAD THE WORD [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 May 99 08:09:39 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Littleton: Another Perspective (fwd) On May 7, BludyRed@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] WHAT DOES COLUMBINE SAY ABOUT US? The president said yesterday that the tragedy at Columbine should make us look critically at ourselves as a society and as a nation. That we should search out our obvious weaknesses and failings as a people and as a culture. The president saw Tuesday as a day of national shame. I don't see it that way at all. I look at Columbine and I am proud to be an American. I am touched and inspired by the goodness and courage of average people, and the extent to which decency and faith spring from the American breast. I mean no disrespect, and I am not overlooking the great pain Tuesday's carnage wrought on so many lives and families, but as I look at what happened in Littleton I see proof not that things are going wrong in America, but that things are going right. Countless people, from Joe and Betty America to their politicians and commentators, have waxed gravely about what the Columbine murders "say about us." A Utah state legislator said it all started when "they took prayer out of schools." Rosie O'Donnell ranted angrily that we must "stand up to the NRA." A minister at a Denver memorial service said "gun manufacturers must be held accountable for this tragedy." For two days on my radio show I have heard from people who blame abortion, poor parenting, a lack of personal responsibility, Bill Clinton, liberals in general and a growing lack of spirituality in our society. Each of them has seen some great flaw in the American heart that gave rise to the butchers of Columbine. And each of them has been wrong. Because to see the two murderers and the evil they did as a product of our national soul, and then to simultaneously ignore the hundreds of heroes and the goodness they did is to misrepresent the truth. If the tiny evil minority is a product of this society, so too is the overwhelming good majority. If you look at our failures, you must also look at our successes. I'm humbled to belong to a society which produced a hero teacher who, shot through the chest, his lifeblood glugging away, led a group of students to the barricaded safety of a classroom. For three and a half hours, as he knew he was dying, he calmed the students, and gave them direction. I am proud to know that my country raised the youngsters who clustered around that teacher, tending his wounds as best they could, keeping him conscious, using a cellular phone to call paramedics for advice. I am honored to share citizenship with the boy who thought to pull out the teacher's wallet so that he might look upon pictures of his family as he fought to stay alive. It was this culture which produced another teacher, his charges hiding in a room, brave enough to stand with nothing more than a fire extinguisher to drive away a threat to his students' safety. The teen-agers who knelt to shield and comfort their wounded classmates grew up in this society. As they carried the injured to safety and stopped to pray with the frightened, they were acting out of a set of values they learned as Americans. One boy in the library threw himself on top of a fellow student, whispering to her to be calm, saying he would protect her body with his own. That boy, that hero, grew up in a world with legal guns, violent video games, hateful rock'n'roll, no prayer in schools, countless abortions, grizzly movies, Bill Clinton in the White House and record divorce rates. Yet he, and hundreds of others, acted with the purest of human virtues and in a noble and selfless fashion. What does that "say about us?" It says we are a good people. And while we have weaknesses and challenges, we are fundamentally strong. Our heart is essentially good, our children are raised with natural decency. Lunch ladies shouted directions for students to flee, ninth-graders organized into groups for protection, children's cell phones told cops where the shooting was and when it had died down. And in the wake of it all, children with shattered lives stood before cameras and politely and clearly told a nation what they had seen. Strong enough to care, strong enough to endure, strong enough to witness. As the tears are wiped away and the shock and grief begin to fade, Columbine will leave me with pride. Pride in the students and teachers of that suburban school, one little community that represents us all. With dignity, compassion and courage. The America those kids grew up in helped them to be some of the best and strongest people in the world. They are not the product of a failed society, they are the offspring of the greatest culture and nation on earth. The president who saw no flaw in himself is too quick to see a flaw in us. Those who hate our way of life, or who seek to use tragedy to advance their political causes, will see deep trouble in the American soul. But their perception is not true. It doesn't reflect us, it reflects them. This is a good land. We are a good people. The children we raise are overwhelmingly decent and pure. For us to mistakenly assert otherwise is to deny them and their virtue. It is to deny the testament of the heroes of Columbine. - - by Bob Lonsberry c 1999 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #238 *************************