From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #285 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Friday, October 1 1999 Volume 02 : Number 285 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:17:51 -0500 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Drop a Dime on Your Neighbor (Or intended victim perhaps?? It seems to me we already have involuntary commitment laws, and laws making it illegal for those judged mentally incompetent to own firearms. Why do we need this, if those other laws were only utlized and enforced? Of course this law appears to violate basic due process, and would not always lead to a commitment, just a gun grab. Seems just another tool for unconstitutional (i.e.Unreasonable, warrant or no) searchs and seizures.) from: http://www.apbnews.com/newscenter/breakingnews/1999/09/25/gunlaw0925_01.html (this is a "Cop" site FWIW) Conn. Law Seeks to Disarm Dangerous Gun Owners Aimed at Those On a 'Descent Into Madness' Sept. 25, 1999 HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) -- Before Columbine High School, before the Atlanta day trader offices, before the Jewish community center in Los Angeles, there was Matthew Beck. Beck's suicidal shooting spree at the Connecticut Lottery headquarters in March 1998 had state lawmakers considering ways to prevent such rampages well before this year's bloody toll began to mount. In October, a new state law will allow police to take guns away from people considered an immediate danger to themselves or others. It is rooted in the notion that rampages such as Beck's are often preceded by a detectable descent into madness. Critics of the law brand it a "turn-in-your-neighbor" statute. Supporters say the standards for seizing someone's guns are so high that the law will seldom be used. First law of its kind Either way, Connecticut's law -- apparently the first of its kind -- is attracting attention as governments cope with the steady stream of school and workplace shootings. The law allows any state prosecutor or two police officers to ask a judge for a warrant to take guns away from someone believed to be an immediate threat. The warrant could be issued only after a police investigation concludes there is no other way to keep the person from doing harm. In deciding whether to issue the warrant, a judge must have evidence that the person recently tortured animals, threatened to kill himself or others, or acted violently. If guns are seized, a hearing must be held within 14 days to determine whether they should be returned. A threat carried out Beck had threatened to kill co-workers at the lottery several days before his March 8, 1998, rampage. He killed four supervisors before firing a bullet into his own head. "The people who worked with Matthew Beck were so nervous about him that one of them started bringing a gun to work for his own protection," said Rep. Michael Lawlor, the law's sponsor. "If he called the cops and said Beck was talking about guns and making threats, something could have been done before the shooting happened." More than mere suspicion is needed to put the law in motion, said Connecticut State Police Lt. Robert Kiehm. "You need probable cause just to begin an investigation," he said. "But it gives police officers the power to take some proactive steps instead of waiting for something to happen." Guns could be confiscated within hours Yet, if the law applies only when someone is an "imminent" threat, how much time do police have to conduct an investigation? "Depending on the severity of the situation, it could be done in several hours," Kiehm said. Rep. Richard Tulisano, a Democrat who was one of the most vocal opponents of the law, said the legislation will lead to hasty searches and bogus arrests. "Now police can say, 'We saw you kick a dog peeing on your petunias, so now we could go in your house and look for guns because you might be dangerous,"' Tulisano said. "What happens if they're looking for guns and they find drugs? This law becomes the basis for which people could invade your home." Other states looking at law Legislators in other states say the law's strength is its focus on prevention. The Columbine High School massacre in Littleton, Colo., prompted lawmakers in that state to withdraw proposals to make it easier to carry concealed weapons. "There are certainly situations where this law will save lives," said Rep. Ken Gordon, the Colorado House Minority Leader and a proponent of gun control measures. Steven Duke, a Yale University law professor, disagrees. Duke doubts the law would have prevented frustrated investor Mark O. Barton from killing nine people at two brokerage firms in Atlanta in July, or stopped Alan Eugene Miller, who allegedly killed three people at offices in Columbiana, Ala., in August. "What guy who wants to shoot somebody is really going to be deterred because his pet weapon has been confiscated?" Duke said. Opponents have argued that the law could be manipulated. The 'turn in your neighbor' law "Someone, anyone, can go to the police, state their belief (that) you are a danger, and they can take your guns away," said Alan Caruba, who posts his opinions on legislation and media coverage on the National Anxiety Center, a New Jersey-based Internet website. "Then there's a hearing in which you are essentially guilty until proven innocent. It's not gun control. It's the turn-in-your-neighbor law." Critics say authorities should rely on the state's civil commitment statutes if someone poses a threat to society. But in order to have someone committed and held against their will for more than 48 hours, the state must prove the person has a psychological disability. The new law allows police to take swifter action, Lawlor said. The legislation appeals to Rep. Tom Dart, a Chicago Democrat in the Illinois Legislature. Illinois next? "The thing that frustrates me is that when they're pulling bodies out of a house, neighbors are telling the police 'Yeah, the guy who shot them was nuts -- we all knew that,"' Dart said. "But everyone says that there's nothing that they could have done to stop the shooting." Dart said he will use the Connecticut law as the model for a proposal of his own in November. The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 99 16:46:46 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Waco Meets The Kennewick Man (fwd) On Sep 26, Carol A. Valentine wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] In 1996, a 9,300 year-old skeleton was found on the banks of the Columbia River, near Kennewick, Washington. Called the Kennewick Man, this ancient gentleman is thought to have been a Caucasian. You can read more about the Kennewick Man here: http://www.runestone.org/ and http://www.runestone.org/kmlinks.html The Kennewick Man has upset many politically correct applecarts. Why? He indicates that whites may have predated the American Indians as inhabitants of this country: Out the window, perhaps, goes part of a campaign to shame white Americans into subservience for stealing the land from "native" Americans. There is no doubt where the US government stands in the controversy. The US Army Corps of Engineers, which owned the property on which the remains were found, dumped tons of fill onto the site. They want no more research. The Corps wants to give the Kennewick Man to the Indians to be buried as an Indian. Two years ago some private citizens filed a law suit against the government, seeking to stop the internment. Among the plaintiffs is Dr. Douglas Owsley, division head of physical anthropology for the Smithsonian Institution's Museum of Natural History. http://x34.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=438607284 But Dr. Owsley's history shows he is a government man, and a dangerous man. Can he be trusted in Kennewick? Look what Owsley did in Waco. Recall that the FBI issued public statements that the Branch Davidians had killed each other and set themselves on fire on April 19, 1993. Given that the Mt. Carmel Center was (allegedly) the scene of a mass murder/suicide, highest professional standards should have been used to recover the bodies. Procedures for recovering bodies in a crime scene are of utmost importance. The environment in which bodies are recovered is packed with evidence of the time, circumstances, and cause of death, essential in murder investigations. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/page/d_hb.html Dr. Owsley is trained in these methods. In fact the Smithsonian Institution's anthropology department has had a long standing relationship with the FBI for decades, ostensibly helping the FEB solve crimes and identify victims. Dr. Owsley's colleague, Dr. Douglas Ubelaker (the curator of anthropology at the National Museum of Natural History at the Smithsonian), has written a popular book on the work of forensic anthropologists ("Bones, A Forensic Detectives Casebook," Edward Burlingame Books, 1992.) The dustjacket tells us Dr. Ubelaker is a top consultant to the FBI. Says Ubelaker: "A smart detective knows how much may be learned from the environment in which a body has been found," (pg. 105). Both Dr. Owsley and Dr. Ubelaker were sent to Waco to help the locals recover the bodies of the Branch Davidians from the ruins of Mt. Carmel. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/page/d_hf.html But instead of using world-recognized professional standards in recovering the bodies, Drs. Owsley and Ubelaker participated in the gross mishandling of the remains. Their acts of commission and omission make them full participants in the cover-up of the Waco Holocaust in its most heinous aspect: The murders of the mothers and children. Now, the details: Among forensic anthropologists, utmost emphasis is placed on examination of human remains at the site of discovery or "in situ." Once the relationship between the remains and the environment has been disturbed, it cannot be created again with accuracy, writes Dr. Ubelaker (pg. 107). Another well known forensic anthropologist, William Maples, echoes Dr. Ubelaker's words. In his book "Dead Men Do Tell Tales," Dr. Maples writes of a murder case in Florida. The sheriff's department had found remains at a burned out shack and mistakenly thought Dr. Maples was out of the country. A technician was sent out to pick up the remains. Dr. Maples laments: "If only I had been called in just two days sooner! The Alachua County Sheriff's Department thought I was out of the country, in Peru, and unreachable; in fact I had just returned to the United States the morning before the remains were discovered. I could easily have gone out to the burned shack and seen the remains in situ. Instead, an investigator from the medical examiner's office carefully gathered up every single bone fragment she could find . . . "When I finally opened the vinyl bag I was overwhelmed. Inside, totally commingled and crushed, were approximately ten thousand bone fragments . . . as matters stood, the remains had been jumbled twice, once by the fire and again by the evidence technician." (Maples, pgs. 151-152) Maples describes the great care he took in recovering bodies in a grave in Fort Myers, Florida: "The corpses would have to be disinterred very carefully if a case were to be made against their murderers. The details of the crime would have to be reconstructed from the stratigraphic evidence of the scene." Dr. Maples took great care to make sure that happened. ". . . In those days I was having some back trouble. I found it excruciating to stoop over these corpses for hours on end. I compromised by crawling down into the hole and lying alongside the bodies, digging them out while lying next to them, face to face . . ." The care with which the murder victims were excavated demonstrated that the victim buried deepest had been shot last (Maples, pgs. 57-58 and photo caption). According to government's testimony, Owsley was brought to Waco to help recover the bodies, http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/page/d_hf.html In the cases presented below, please note that all these bodies were found in the concrete room, an old records storage room that the Branch Davidians used as a pantry. You can see a picture of the concrete room (after the fire) at: http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/fig/d_fig07.jpg And you can see a diagram showing the locations of the bodies at: http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/map/d_map01.html We might have expected Dr. Owsley, like Dr. Maples, to be there recovering the bodies in situ, bending down over the corpses, digging them out with painstaking care, taking notes and recording the most minute details of stratigraphic evidence. He should have carefully noted any anomalous placement of body parts. "A smart detective knows how much may be learned from the environment in which a body has been found." Now let's look at what he did instead. * Cyrus Howell Koresh. Cyrus Howell Koresh (Doe 67-2) was the eight-year-old son of David and Rachel Koresh. Owsley's name appears on Cyrus's Autopsy Report. According this report (pg. 3) Dr. Owsley did the anthropological examination. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/67-2/67-2_aut.html Now look at page 2 of the Autopsy Report for Doe 67-2. It says that Cyrus probably died of suffocation as a result of structural collapse. But the structure in which Cyrus's body was found did not collapse, as you have already seen in http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/fig/d_fig07.jpg So Cyrus could not have possibly died in the structural collapse of a building that had not collapsed. According to testimony in the 1994 trial of the Branch Davidians, recovery workers and a Texas Ranger were in the concrete room day after day removing bodies. Owsley could have been there, too, if he had wanted. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/page/d_lc.html But there is no mention that Owsley (or Ubelaker) ventured into the concrete room themselves. Of course they should have been there to recover and examine the remains in situ. So Dr. Owsley's name on an Autopsy Report authenticates the false statement of the cause of death in the report (suffocation due to structural collapse.) There are several other problems with Dr. Owsley's signing off on Cyrus's Autopsy Report. Cyrus's head was missing. A structural collapse, even if it had happened, would ensure the head would remain in place. Owsley training as a forensic anthropologist would have led him to ask questions about the missing head, too, whether or not he was in the concrete room during recovery. Here's another problem with Dr. Owsley's signature: Cyrus's remains were found in an agglutinated mass, fused together with 10 other bodies of persons who had variously died of smoke inhalation, suffocation, and gunshot wounds. " . . . There were several other bodies that were intertwined that we just couldn't separate without tearing them up. And so, they were all packaged in one body bag and given numbers by the medical examiner later on," a Texas Ranger testified in 1994. (Transcript, pg. 935). Speaking of the commingled remains, the May 1, 1993 Dallas Morning News quotes Judge James Collier, Justice of the Peace for the Mt. Carmel Center district: "They were all in a mingle with one another. I was in the funeral business for 40 years, and I never saw anything like this. This is the worst because of the sheer numbers of it. It's mind boggling." How did the remains of all these people become fused together? There is no record in the Autopsy Report that Dr. Owsley raised this most interesting question. * Bobbie Lane Howell Koresh * Bobbie Lane was the one-year old baby of David and Rachael Koresh. Bobbie Lane's remains were shattered and found at sites approximately two feet apart in the concrete room. Hence Bobbie Lane has two Autopsy Report. (Doe 69 and Doe 67-5.) http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/67-5/67-5_aut.html The recovery workers were unaware at the time the remains were gathered that the body parts belonged to one person, and hence two separate numbers were assigned as the remains were collected. Dr. Owsley's name appears on both Autopsy Reports (pg. 4 of Doe 67-5 and pg. 5 of Doe 69) as having performed the anthropological examination. Doe 69 consisted of a nearly complete skull and jaw (the jaw had to be reconstructed), wavy medium brown hair, and a partial torso. Doe 67-5 was recovered from that same agglutinated mass from which Cyrus's remains emanated. Doe 67-5 consisted of a right foot, upper and lower legs, pelvis bones, and a right hand with attached lower arm. Was Dr. Owsley on the scene to recover the body of Bobbie Lane, as professional standards require? The Autopsy Report for Doe 67-5 says the remains were "presented to the County Morgue co-mingled with other bodies in the 'Bunker' with sorting performed by Dr. Owsley." So apparently Owsley stayed in the morgue, passive, waiting for the body bags to arrive, and then sorted the bones. Quite a deviation from those professional standards! There is no record in the Autopsy Report that Dr. Owsley addressed the question of how Bobbie Lane's body was found in separate pieces, two feet apart. Nor is there an explanation of why Bobbie Lane's body was left rotting in the elements and was not recovered until April 27-29. Star Howell Koresh Star Howell (Doe 67-1) was the six-year-old daughter of David and Rachel Koresh. Star's shattered remains were found in the agglutination mass in the concrete room, along with Cyrus and part of Bobbie Lane. Dr. Owsley's name appears on this Autopsy Report as having performed the anthropological examination, but there is no record of him recovering the remains in situ. What a shame he did not offer an opinion on why the body was found shattered, or why the body was allowed to rot in the elements before recovery on April 27-29. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/67-1/67-1_aut.html (see pg. 5 for Dr. Owsley's name.) Hollywood Sylvia Dr. Owsley name appears on the Autopsy Report of remains identified as those of one year old Hollywood Sylvia, Doe 67-4. "Body is presented to the County Morgue co-mingled with other bodies in the 'Bunker' with sorting performed by Dr. Owsley. . . " (pg. 3) http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/67-4/67-4_aut.html The corpse weighed only 3.9 lbs, and it was so decomposed it was impossible to tell whether the sex organs were male or female. The child allegedly died on April 19, and the body allowed to rot in the concrete room until April 27-29. "Advanced postmortem decomposition," says the Autopsy Report. No doubt. But even so, the April weather in Texas is not hot. Why was the corpse so decomposed before Dr. Owsley started sorting the bones in the morgue? What a shame he wasn't there doing his exam in situ, as professional standards dictate, and what a shame he was not curious enough to ask any tough questions from his comfortable chair in the morgue. Paiges Gent Paiges Gent (Doe 64) was a baby girl. "The separated body parts are presented for autopsy wrapped in a white sheet." Body parts include "separated skull with disarticulated mandible. The skull is incomplete with missing occipital and left temporal bones . . . Separated and decomposing fragments of scalp are also present with long blond hair. . . . large mass of soft tissue and viscera with co-mingled ribs, vertebrae, scapulae, sternum and most of the bones of the extremities . . ." Paiges body was extracted from the agglutinated mass found in the concrete room. Dr. Owsley is listed as having done the anthropological examination. Was Dr. Owsley at the scene to recover the body? The Autopsy Report says: "Body is presented to County Morgue co-mingled with other bodies in the 'Bunker' with sorting performed by Dr. Owsley." http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/64/64_aut.html (see pg. 3) Again, no explanation for the shattered remains, and no explanation of how Paiges's body became agglutinated to the remains of 10 others. Dr. Owsley, where were you when America needed you? Melissa Morrison Melissa Morrison was about eight when she died at Mt. Carmel. Her Autopsy Report (Doe 74) reveals that only her lower legs were found. Dr. Owsley was joined by Dr. Ubelaker in the "anthropological examination" for this victim (pg. 3). No explanation of the state of the remains. What happened to the rest of her body? http://www.Public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/74/74_aut.html Indeed, a trained forensic anthropologist like Dr. Owsley should have become curious about the entire forensic scene in the concrete room. Some bodies found in the concrete room were virtually incinerated--puzzling, in that the Mt. Carmel fire lasted only 45 minutes. Other bodies found a short distance away in the same room were only slightly charred. In other cases, entire sections of bodies had been burned away, but the remaining sections were variously described as moist, liquefied, or badly decomposed. Some bodies were whole and easily recognizable as human forms. Others, as we have seen, were mutilated, dismembered, or shattered. In the concrete room we find heads without trunks, trunks without heads, limbs without trunks. John Bean (Doe 32), a man whose remains were found in the concrete room, was found without a head, arms, or legs. His extremities appear to have been cut cleanly from the trunk, as if with a mechanical saw. And no, tanks did not go into the concrete room and destroy the bodies. The door of the room was less than four feet wide, and undamaged after the April 19, 1993 fire. The bodies of the women and children found in the concrete room bear the marks of purposeful destruction by the murderers. The US government does not believe these Davidians were murdered by other Davidians, since no Davidians have been charged and the evidence at the crime scene destroyed. The lack of indictments and the mishandling of the forensic evidence speaks volumes about the identities of the murderers. They are in fact a public acknowledgement by the US that the US committed the murders. The fact that Dr. Owsley did not apply the standards of his profession also speaks volumes. He did not recover the bodies in situ. He sat in the morgue and waited for the body bags to arrive, sorted the bones, and never asked any questions. Then he allowed his name to be placed on Autopsy Reports which he must have known contained lies about the causes of death. Douglas Owsley must have known he was cooperating in the cover-up of murder of dozens of innocent mothers and children and he must have suspected the identity of the murderers. Authors Christopher Joyce and Eric Stover describe the death machine in Argentina under the military junta: "In most cases . . . military or police squads delivered the bodies of their victims to municipal morgues, where the police surgeon gave them a brisk examination. Many morgue workers were well aware of the atrocities committed around them. Army trucks would arrive at morgues late at night, carrying bodies, often mutilated and bearing signs of torture. Officers ordered the morgue workers not to perform autopsies and simply register the bodies as 'N.N.' for 'no name.' These were usually buried in unmarked graves . . . " (Witnesses From the Grave, Little, Brown & Co., 1991 pg. 224). Argentina has come to the United States. It came to Waco in the persons of the Smithsonian anthropology team. With his record of cooperating with the murderers of the Branch Davidian mothers and children, should we trust Douglas Owsley, Ph. D. in the Kennewick Man controversy? You jest . . . Carol A. Valentine President Public-Action.Inc. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter Copyright, September, 1999 May be reproduced for non-commerical purposes. === Carol A. Valentine President, Public Action, Inc. Have you seen the Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum? See what they did to the mothers and children-- http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter "In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 99 08:35:07 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Article forwarded to you from a friend (fwd) I'll note that most Police are good folks, but their appointed leadership and the National organizations they've created, are not allways our friends. I haven't checked this site out yet, but it could have stuff from both sorts, so be aware. On Sep 27, referred@apbonline.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] fred connolly (assetnj@aol.com) has forwarded the following article to you from APBnews.com. Click on the address below to view the article: http://www.apbnews.com/cjsystem/1999/09/24/shooter0924_01.html?stf.mail fred connolly also adds the following message: Finally, a PRO gun story APBnews.com (http://www.apbnews.com) is the source for police and crime news, information and entertainment. APB 911 E-mail Alert subscribers can get up-to-the-minute details on the latest police and crime news and developments. Sign up for APB 911 E-mail Alerts at http://www.apbnews.com/email/index.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:28:46 -0700 From: "." Subject: Re: Article forwarded to you from a friend (fwd) I think you are living in the "good old days." I have never seen a police officer on the witness stand who did not lie through his teeth. I have never seen a police officer who thought that his first duty was to uphold the Constitution (or who had even READ the document since high school). I have never seen a police officer who was more concerned over my exercise of free speech than someone else's "being bothered" by it. As a friend of mine is wont to say, "If there were good cops, there would be no bad cops." - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Vance To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 9:00 AM Subject: Article forwarded to you from a friend (fwd) >I'll note that most Police are good folks, but their appointed leadership >and the National organizations they've created, are not allways our friends. >I haven't checked this site out yet, but it could have stuff from both >sorts, so be aware. > >On Sep 27, referred@apbonline.com wrote: > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > >fred connolly (assetnj@aol.com) has forwarded the following article to you >from APBnews.com. Click on the address below to view the article: > >http://www.apbnews.com/cjsystem/1999/09/24/shooter0924_01.html?stf.mail > >fred connolly also adds the following message: >Finally, a PRO gun story > >APBnews.com (http://www.apbnews.com) is the source for police and crime >news, information and entertainment. APB 911 E-mail Alert subscribers can >get up-to-the-minute details on the latest police and crime news and >developments. Sign up for APB 911 E-mail Alerts at >http://www.apbnews.com/email/index.html > >[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > >-- >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! >----------------+----------+--------------------------+-------------------- - - >An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no >weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his >hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a >on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ >----------------+----------+--------------------------+-------------------- - - > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:39:52 -0400 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC" Subject: Re: Article forwarded to you from a friend (fwd) The cops where I live (in my town) in New Hampshire are for the most part, good guys. From what I hear the chief signs Class 3 applications on the spot if the person requesting has a NH pistol permit. One of the officers on the force is one of John Farnham's instructor helpers when Farnham is in the area, and they seem to be respectful of others and to support gun rights generally. Maybe big city cops are as described, but there are a lot of cops in the country who are good decent folk. (One of the Lieutenants in Salt Lake City, when I lived there, even went to DC to testify in front of Congress in favor of gun rights, much to his chief's unhappiness) Best Chad - --On Thursday, September 30, 1999, 11:28 AM -0700 "." wrote: > I think you are living in the "good old days." I have never seen a police > officer on the witness stand who did not lie through his teeth. I have > never seen a police officer who thought that his first duty was to uphold > the Constitution (or who had even READ the document since high school). I > have never seen a police officer who was more concerned over my exercise > of free speech than someone else's "being bothered" by it. > As a friend of mine is wont to say, "If there were good cops, there would > be no bad cops." > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Vance > To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > > Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 9:00 AM > Subject: Article forwarded to you from a friend (fwd) > > >> I'll note that most Police are good folks, but their appointed leadership >> and the National organizations they've created, are not allways our > friends. >> I haven't checked this site out yet, but it could have stuff from both >> sorts, so be aware. >> >> On Sep 27, referred@apbonline.com wrote: >> >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message > follows --------------------] >> >> fred connolly (assetnj@aol.com) has forwarded the following article to >> you from APBnews.com. Click on the address below to view the article: >> >> http://www.apbnews.com/cjsystem/1999/09/24/shooter0924_01.html?stf.mail >> >> fred connolly also adds the following message: >> Finally, a PRO gun story >> >> APBnews.com (http://www.apbnews.com) is the source for police and crime >> news, information and entertainment. APB 911 E-mail Alert subscribers >> can get up-to-the-minute details on the latest police and crime news and >> developments. Sign up for APB 911 E-mail Alerts at >> http://www.apbnews.com/email/index.html >> >> [------------------------- end of forwarded > message ------------------------] >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> --- > - >> RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------------- >> --- > - >> An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath >> no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell >> his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and >> buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | >> sword.--Jesus > Christ >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------------- >> --- > - >> >> - >> > > > - > Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 99 12:11:09 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: FW: REP. SCHAFFER SPEECH ON DNC CHAIRMAN'S PRAISE OF COMMUNIST CH INA (fwd) Well, well, looks like a Gun Grabbing Mayor just came out of the closet..... On Sep 30, Graham, Brandi wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > REP. SCHAFFER SPEECH > > ON DNC CHAIRMAN'S > > RAISE OF COMMUNIST > > CHINA > "Do you think other Democrats denounced Rendell's celebration of communist > rule? > > WASHINGTON, D.C. -- U.S. Congressman Bob Schaffer (R-CO) today delivered > the following speech on the floor of the House of Representatives. > > "Two hundred and twenty-three years ago, the Declaration of > Independence was signed in Philadelphia. But just five days ago, there > was a different sort of revolt on the steps of Philadelphia's City Hall. > > A crowd of citizens gathered there to protest a far more pernicious > kind of tyranny than that which confronted the Founders themselves. > > It seems that the city's mayor, Ed Rendell, convened a "celebration" > to honor and commemorate "fifty years of communist rule in the People's > Republic of China," -- that according to the Philadelphia Enquirer. > > Now, Mayor Rendell is a Democrat. In fact, he's a prominent one. > Do you think other Democrats denounced Rendell's celebration of communist > rule? Did they reprimand him for praising the very regime which today > points 13 nuclear weapons at our country? Did they cry out about the > communist destruction of human dignity and human rights? No? > > Last week, Democrats made Rendell chairman of their party -- head of > the Democratic National Committee. I'm not making this up Mr. Speaker. > > What's next? Will Chairman Rendell print his party's platform in > little red books?" > > # # # > Congressman Schaffer was first elected to Congress in November of 1996. > He is a member of the Agriculture Committee, the Resources Committee and > the Education and the Workforce Committee. He is Vice Chairman of the > Education Subcommittee on Early Childhood, Youth and Families, Chairman of > the Western Caucus Water Working Group, Co-Chair of the Western Water > Caucus and President of the Republican Sophomore Class. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 99 08:48:24 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: FCC Public File Auto-FAQ This "FAQ" is auto-posted once a month via cron triggered script, and may be triggered off by hand from time to time in between if the info is requested by someone, such as when the House recently voted down the AW Ban and the Media threw a hissy fit. The purpose of this FAQ is to inform people what they can do about Media generated lies and misinformation. While the FCC only handles Broadcast Media, (TV and Radio), some of these techniques will work for magazines and newspapers too. If I've missed something, or you find errors, let me know and I'll add/fix it. 1.a. Send letters of complaint to the Station Manager every time it happens with all the time, details, other info, and your complaint(s). 1.b. Send an additional copy for their FCC (Federal Communications Commission) Public file. 1.c. Send an additional copy to the FCC itself, in case they don't put it in their Public file. 2.a. Send a letter of complaint to their Station Owner as per above, with copies as per above (1.b and 1.c). 3. Send copies of their replies to you along with yours to them to their FCC Public file, so that it gets nice and fat, again, with copies to the FCC itself. 4. If you can afford it, send all corespondence by Certified Mail with Return Receipt Requested. Send a copy of the Return Receipt with everything that goes to the FCC itself, so that they will have additional evidence if the Station is cheating on their Public File. 5.a. Go to the Public Library and look up "Standard Rate and Data Services" (SRDS) "Directory of National Advertisers." It is found in many major Libraries (in the business/reference stacks), and lists EVERY current advertiser, who the players are at both the company and advertising agency(s), and the appropriate telephone and fax (and probably E-Mail by now) addresses. If your Library doesn't have it, it can be requested. Otherwise you can watch their commercials for a few days to a week, listing all their advertisers. There are other references that have the addresses for the nation's business headquarters too. look them all up and pass the addresses and phone/FAX numbers etc., around so that everyone can bitch to the sponsors. IF enough people do that, it'll get back to the Station. Tell them if the Station continues their nastiness you'll _consider_ changing to brand(X), (otherwise they'll just write you off as a loss). 5.b. The above, (5.a.), can be a lot easier and less time consuming if you're dealing with a newspaper's or a magazine's ads, as they are right in front of you for the listing. 6. If they put on something good or even just more reasonable, call and compliment them on it, but do _not_ send any kudos to their FCC file, or write to them about it. That way they have to keep it up and hope, as there is nothing good in the file or in writing that they can show the FCC to justify their Station's License. 7. Federal Communications Commission, Complaints and Compliance Division Room 6218, 2025 M Street NW Washington, D.C. 20554 FAX: 202-653-9659 FCC Attn: Edythe Wise - -- An _EFFECTIVE_ | The _only_important_difference_ between Nazi-ism, Fascism, weapon in every | Communism, Communitarianism, Socialism and (Neo-)Liberalism hand = Freedom | is the _spelling_, and that the last group hasn't got the on every side! | Collective brains to figure it out. -- Bill Vance - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #285 *************************