From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #296 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, October 28 1999 Volume 02 : Number 296 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:25:56 -0500 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Re: New Bill # HR 1577 (fwd) At 09:12 AM 10/23/1999 PST, Bill Vance wrote: >On Oct 22, David W Shuee wrote: > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > >Please feel free to cross post > >HR 1577 IH > > 106th CONGRESS > > 1st Session > > H. R. 1577 > >To establish certain uniform legal principles of liability with respect >to >manufacturers of products. > > IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES > > April 27, 1999 > >Mr. HOSTETTLER (for himself, Mr. NORWOOD, Mr. STUMP, Mr. HAYES, and Mr. >TANCREDO) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the >Committee >on the Judiciary, >and in addition to the Committee on Commerce, for a period to be >subsequently determined by the >Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within >the jurisdiction of the >committee concerned > > > > A BILL > >To establish certain uniform legal principles of liability with respect >to >manufacturers of products. > > Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the >United >States of America in > Congress assembled, > >SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. > > This Act may be cited as the `Interstate Commerce Freedom Act'. > >SEC. 2. FINDING AND PURPOSE. > > (a) FINDING- The Congress finds that the free flow of interstate >commerce is vitally important > to the continued economic vitality of the Nation. > > (b) PURPOSE- Based upon the powers contained in Article I, section 8, >clause 3 of the United > States Constitution, the purpose of this Act is to promote the free >flow >of goods and services > and to lessen burdens on interstate commerce by establishing certain >uniform legal principles of > liability with respect to manufacturers of products that have moved >in >or that otherwise affect > interstate commerce. Mien Gott! Someone actually understands that "regulate" meant to make function properly, whether in the Interstate Commerce Clause, or the Second Amendment. Since at least the 1930s, most politicians, but most especially those of the Ass party, seem to think it meant "restrict" or "restricted" in both cases. The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 99 22:21:15 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [harpazo] Fwd: A Joke A Day (Friday ... October 15, 1999) (fwd) Worth a chuckle.....:-) On Oct 23, Tammy wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: Tammy Hi all, Thought this was cute. Love, Tammy S. > >Eden Wear > > > >A little boy opened the big and old family Bible with fascination and > >looked at the old pages as he turned them. Suddenly, something fell out > >of the Bible, and he picked it up and looked at it closely. > > > >It was an old leaf from a tree that had been pressed in between the > >pages. > > > >"Momma, look what I found," the boy called out. > > > >"What have you got there, dear?" his mother asked. > > > >With astonishment in the young boy's voice, he answered: "I think it's > >Adam's suit!" [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 99 11:19:39 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Christian Cross Banned (fwd) On Oct 24, Bill Utterback wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ======================================= NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY 2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100 Washington DC 20037 World Wide Web: http://www.lp.org/ ======================================= For release: October 22, 1999 ======================================= For additional information: George Getz, Press Secretary Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222 E-Mail: 76214.3676@Compuserve.com ======================================= School's ban on cross necklaces is Christian-bashing, say Libertarians WASHINGTON, DC -- A threat by an Alabama school to discipline an 11-year-old girl for wearing a cross necklace shows why you can't trust government schools to protect religious freedom, the Libertarian Party said today. "Students go to school to learn -- but what kind of lesson do they learn when the government says that wearing a cross is a crime?" asked Steve Dasbach, the party's national director. "It seems the lesson of the day in Alabama is Religious Intolerance 101." Earlier this month, attorneys for Kandice Smith, a sixth-grader at Curry Middle School in Walker County, Alabama, filed a lawsuit in federal court to overturn what they called an "unconstitutional" dress code. In August, the school banned cross necklaces as part of its new dress code -- claiming they are "gang symbols." School officials threatened to discipline Smith if she didn't hide the cross under her clothes. But Smith's attorneys argue the policy "violates the free speech and free exercise rights [of Smith] by denying her the ability to express her faith through the visible wearing of the necklace." The lawsuit also charges that the school "demonstrates a hostility toward religion." Dasbach said Libertarians agree -- but have a better solution. "Any dress code that bans a popular Christian symbol is clearly unconstitutional, and we're confident the court will agree. But changing this particular school's dress code isn't the answer," he said. "After all, if Kandice Smith wins, the problem will be solved at Curry Middle School. But it doesn't change the fact that thousands of government school districts all across the country have the power to implement a similar anti-Christian ban tomorrow. "And it doesn't change the fact that government schools routinely teach values and beliefs that many Christians find abhorrent -- while forcing them to pay taxes to subsidize those schools. That's why this lawsuit won't solve the real problem." So what will? "Most Christians support a separation of church and state because they understand that government should not come between people's relationship with their God," said Dasbach. "What Libertarians understand is that we need a separation of school and state for the same reason: To protect children like Kandice Smith from the kind of religious intolerance she is experiencing at a government school." That's why the underlying problem will only be solved when America starts moving toward a system where children are educated in free-market, religious, or voluntary community schools -- not tax-funded government schools, he said. "In a free-market system -- where people aren't forced to subsidize costly, failing government schools -- parents would be able to send their children to schools that teach their values, and respect their beliefs," said Dasbach. "In a free-market system, Kandice Smith's parents wouldn't be forced to send her to a school that makes wearing a cross a crime." The idea of moving away from government-run schools and towards private alternatives can be somewhat unsettling for many Christians, Dasbach acknowledged. "But remember this: Jesus Christ was sentenced to death by his government," he said. "So, do you want to blindly trust our government to educate your children properly -- especially after what it's done to Kandice Smith?" - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBOBIDIdCSe1KnQG7RAQHmQgQAkqJLwTaYmU8lfPSn2ol9uw4j2sEVA91P t3cC4QUYQpBICgZ+ZHoRyTMjKd4Ys4tU0HNVj4ApdR8x8eIBFYlYoCNQWx2ltCRX 1gaFGbirTuWmN6fiK5JzyS6LuvO7PdVRK+o39+RayFUAVc5gffnm+kMv2fFK11Lw ePSIahCVKTc= =h3ZJ - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- The Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/ 2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100 voice: 202-333-0008 Washington DC 20037 fax: 202-333-0072 For subscription changes, please mail to with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject line -- or use the WWW form. ******************************************************************* A couple of times a week, on average, I forward messages that I consider to be worthwhile. Occasionally I may be inspired to write a brief editorial. If you do not want to receive these messages, send me a message with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject field. If you would like to begin receiving these messages, send me a message with SUBSCRIBE in the subject field. for Liberty (for all), Bill Utterback butterb@connecti.com - ----- "We have the greatest opportunity the world has ever seen, as long as we remain honest -- which will be as long as we can keep the attention of our people alive. If they once become inattentive to public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, judges and governors would all become wolves." Thomas Jefferson "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." Samuel Adams "It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error." U.S. Supreme Court in American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442 - ----- World's Smallest Political Quiz http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/ Fully Informed Jury Association http://www.fija.org/ Gun Owners of America http://www.gunowners.org/ Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership http://www.JPFO.org/ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:11:43 -0500 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Report: Congress panel may test Waco bullets Full story at: http://news.excite.com/news/r/991024/15/crime-davidians WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One of the congressional committees investigating the assault on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, may order ballistic tests on some bullet casings found at an FBI sniper position, according to a New Yorker magazine story to be published Monday. A report by the Texas Rangers subpoenaed by a House panel and made public last month said ammunition often used by snipers was found in a house used by both the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). The report said twelve .308-caliber shell casings and 24 .223-caliber shell casings were found at the house. The New Yorker story said the congressional panel, which was not named, wants to determine who fired the .308-caliber bullet and when they were fired. The FBI has denied that its agents fired any shots during the standoff and assault. The ATF used the house during a fierce gunfight with the cult on Feb. 28, 1993, that started the siege. According to the New Yorker story, the FBI contends that the shots were fired during the Feb. 28 incident. Attorneys for the surviving Davidians argue that the shots may have come later, from the gun of Lon Horiuchi, an FBI sharpshooter who was also involved in the 1992 standoff at Ruby Ridge, Idaho. ... The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 99 08:29:53 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: PROFILING -- OR DEFILING? (fwd) On Oct 26, JASPAR@AOL.COM wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] "MOSAIC-2000" PROJECT: PROFILING -- OR DEFILING? by JASPAR@aol.com The New York Times (October 24, 1999) had a feature story headlined, "Computer Project Seeks to Avert Youth Violence." The BATF "is working with a threat-evaluation company to develop a computer program to help school administrators spot troubled students who might be near the brink of violence." Andrew Vita, associate director for field operations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said, "I think it's a wonderful tool that has a great deal of potential ...." The national pilot program, called "Mosaic-2000," will begin testing in December at more than 20 schools. The Times articles concludes: "Vita ... says school officials need Mosaic ... to deal with an ever more complex threat in which relatively good students with access to guns may erupt because they feel victimized by bullies or by the school system. 'They're the hard ones for the school administrators to identify,' Vita said. 'It's easy to pick out the gang members with tattoos. It's these other people that kind of surprise administrators, and these are the ones they really need to identify.'" * * * I'm 57 years old. What if I were eight years old again, and did today what I did when I was a kid? Where would I fit in "Mosaic-2000"? I shudder when I think about it. I was raised mostly in rural southern California, but graduated from a Los Angeles area high school. My parents bought me a .22 rifle when I was 8. I got a scope for it the next year. I kept it in my bedroom closet -- loaded. I often engaged in pretend "wars," but not with real guns with other kids around. My boy chums and I used rubber band guns. I had 3 air guns. I shot at lizards, snakes, and snails, but no warm-blooded, living thing. In the early 1950s we had nuclear attack drills on Fridays, sirens blaring. We were told to cover our heads and huddle under our school desks. I often drew diagrams of atomic bombs that I had copied from a Life Magazine article. I was in occasional minor fights with my peers. We hurled water-filled tin cans ("bombs") at each other. One time I tossed a can and it landed on top of a kid's head, causing a nasty cut. These water fights ended forever after my parents said, "No more tin can wars." My friends and I built miniature toy towns, complete with stick houses, milk-carton buildings, and dried-mud roads -- in the dirt beneath the trees in our back yard. These towns would last a few days until they were destroyed by bombing, air gun pellets, flood disasters (via garden hose), or invading armies. I must have gone through several hundred metal and plastic toy soldiers, jeeps, tanks, tommy guns and canons. I was hard on my war toys. In our high school creative writing yearbook, I had a short story published about the guy who finally pushed "The Little Red Button," and started a nuclear war, and ended civilization, once and for all. Several of my teachers read my short story out loud to all their classes. The red button reminded the character in the story of his Mom's (and my own Mom's) collection of buttons for sewing that were stored in a glass Mason canning jar. It was a gloomy, disturbing story about doomsday and death. I had cleverly linked doomsday to innocent childhood and household images. I bought and traded and collected "war" comic books, "horror" comics, and "Mad" magazine. I drew countless cartoons of "good" soldiers shooting Commies and Nazis. I loved drawing scenes of Old West-style gunplay: cowboy showdowns, six-guns blazing; Indians killing settlers. My parents bought me soft lead pencils by the box, and reams of blank newsprint for my drawings. At about age 10, I frequently borrowed a .22 semi-auto handgun from my best friend's older brother. I would take the handgun and a brick of ammo (500 rounds) into the nearby hills. For endless, happy hours I imagined I was in gunfights in the old west, or holding off an invading Russian army. Sometimes Dad would drive me way out into the country, and leave me alone for a full day of shooting. The Audie Murphy war movie, "To Hell and Back," was my childhood favorite. "Shane," "The Gunfighter," and "High Noon" were other favorites. These were very violent movies. On several occasions, a mean gang of older kids would try to ambush me as I walked home from school. I was fast. They never caught me. I worried obsessively about what they would do to me if they got me. Each day, I took a different route to get home. The gang lost interest in me. One summer afternoon, when I was about eleven, a much older and stronger neighbor kid came through a side gate in my own back yard and walked up and punched me hard on my nose and broke it. There was blood everywhere. I hardly knew the kid or why he did it. My Dad visited the kid's parents that night, and the kid's parents apologized, and said they would discipline him. The older kid was banned from coming onto our property, or getting anywhere near me. He obeyed. One summer I did almost nothing except build rocket ships. I used the heads cut off from kitchen matches as a propellent for my own crude V-2 missiles. Blam! Whoosh! I can still smell the sulfur and see the clouds of white smoke. Young rocket scientist in the making? Or ... ? I would save my allowance for months before the Fourth of July, but I never had enough money to buy all the cherry bombs, firecrackers, and rockets that I really wanted. We started celebrating in early June. We saved enough cherry bombs to get us through the year, until the next Independence Day. For reasons I can't remember, during some of the long summers of my childhood I could go for weeks without visiting any friends. I had "loner" periods. I would go on reading binges. One summer I read all of Steinbeck, Hemingway, and Zane Gray. I visited the library 3 or 4 times a week, and checked out dozens of war books, and books about guns and their history. And, at the same time, I would also be rereading my strange horror comic books. But I also liked and collected most of Disney's comic books: Donald, Mickey, Goofy, Scrooge. And Superman, too. Donald punished his 3 nephews brutally. Today, Donald would probably be arrested. My senior class in high school had nearly a thousand kids in it. My grade average put me in about the top one percent. I received so many awards I lost track. I belonged to so many clubs that I often forgot to attend meetings. I was an editor of the high school weekly newspaper, and also wrote some stories for the city newspaper. For a few years, when I was 16 and 17, I planned to be a professional cartoonist. My pen and ink drawings -- weird and violent -- were in great demand for yearbook signings. I drew scary cartoons in hundreds of yearbooks. At lunch time, students I didn't even know formed a line, and I drew bloody monsters for them while I ate my lunch, chain smoked cigarettes, and thoroughly enjoyed all the attention. All through junior high and high school, I went plinking with rifles and handguns about every third weekend. Usually alone. But sometimes, as many as a dozen of my buddies would come along with me, all of us armed to the teeth. We carried home our own trash, mostly bullet-riddled cans, spent shell casings, and shredded paper targets. So, what would my Mosaic-2000 profile look like, if I were a student today? I was the kid who loved, owned, and used guns. I had access to any type of gun. I made rockets. I played violent war games. I played pretend "guns," and loved being shot, and practiced rolling down hills, mortally wounded. I "died" a thousand times. I drew pictures of guns and bombs at my big desk in my bedroom. I got my nose broken by a bully, and I fantasized about getting even. I was often terrorized by nasty kids who were bigger and stronger, and certainly would have hurt me if I had given them the opportunity. I wrote stories about doom and disaster. I loved horror-type comic books. I did realistic crayon drawings of hydrogen bomb mushroom clouds. But. I never "crossed the line." I was never arrested. I never broke the law. None of us did. It never occurred to me -- or to my friends and enemies -- actually to kill another human. I was told to never point a real gun at any human, and I never did. Neither did my friends, and most of them owned real guns. Occasionally I saw real firearms, knives, and bayonets at school. A father had got the bayonet in the Philippines during the war. Maybe a kid was going shooting somewhere after school. Kids wanted to show the class the gun they used on a recent hunting trip. Some were in ROTC. But no gun was ever fired, and no one got stabbed, at any school I attended. A gun or knife at school was no big deal. In the lower grades, carrying a realistic-looking toy cap pistol was the rule, not the exception. Fads came and went. Why didn't I -- or my bloodthirsty little pals -- act out our violent fantasies? Why didn't our games become real? We all had plenty of pain and fear as we grew up. Some of us were seriously abused. We had motivation. We had the means. We had the opportunity. Looking back from today, I try to remember the barriers, the limits. Most of all, I guess I was stopped by fear. Fear of hurting ... anyone, friend or enemy. Fear of the consequences. If I had done something unspeakable, it would have hurt my parents most of all. I could never do anything to hurt them. Mom and Dad. And "what will the neighbors think?" There is stupendous power in that phrase: *What will they think?* My poor family would have died of ... shame. And so would my friends. And my teachers. The whole damn town. I would have been ashamed, embarrassed, guilty, wrong, and sick to death. I would have died of humiliation even before they picked me up and took me away. I would have let everyone down. And there was one other barrier. Even if I could have survived the judgment of my family, our neighbors, my friends, my teachers and myself ... there was something else waiting to get me, something to answer to, someone to judge and punish me terribly. God. Yes, I definitely "had the fear of God in me," and I knew He would have been outraged if I did something truly evil. There would be no escape from Him, not ever. But back to the present. Again, what do you suppose my Mosaic-2000 profile would look like today? To say the times have changed is an under statement. We've been in a kind of revolution since the 1960s, and, as someone once said, "When you are in the revolution, it's awfully hard to see it." When I grew up, reasonable nonconformity was encouraged. Conformity was considered anti-individualistic. Individualism was highly valued. The most-admired kids I knew were often "lovable" eccentrics, the kids who dared to be different. The kids who didn't fit the mold. To call someone a nonconformist was usually a compliment. But nowadays, in the wake of a number of recent tragedies perpetrated by psychotic young people using guns and bombs, all the nation's youth are going to pay. The final price tag for this new hyper-surveillance, driven by the "if it saves just one life" mind set, and enhanced by ultra-cutting edge technology, has not been fully revealed - -- not yet. But I have a suspicion that we are already well down that proverbial road that's paved with the usual good intentions. Or, as my Dad would say, "This country's goin' to hell in a hand basket." It seems like my old childhood playmates and I -- the heavy readers, the loners, the gun lovers, the artists, the writers, the eccentrics, the nonconformists -- these will be next year's "different" children, the suspect children who the watchers will be watching. Conformity will be king. I can't hear the sounds yet with my ears, but before I go to sleep at night, I am starting to hear them in my heart. Sometimes it sounds like marching boots, somewhere in the distance, still out of sight. Or the soft, sickening sound of book pages being burned. Or of doors, somewhere, being quietly closed. And other doors being kicked and broken down. *"It's these other people that kind of surprise administrators, and these are the ones they really need to identify."* Problem is, of course, is that all of us are "other people" to "other people," somewhere, sometime. And if we can't understand that, then it's already too late for all of us. Copyright © 1999 JASPAR@aol.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 99 09:24:49 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Religion versus equality: Can landlords "discriminate" against unwed couples? (fwd) On Oct 26, Bill Utterback wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] It is absolutely appropriate for government to require non-discrimination in government and from government contractors. However, it is not the business of the government to tell a private property owner who they must rent to. Private property is just that, private. As in non-governmental. I will be the first to choose to avoid doing business with those who discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, etc., but just as it is my right to do business or not to do business with those I prefer or do not prefer, it is the absolute right of a private property owner to rent or not rent to whomever they please for whatever reason they please. Politicians learned a long time ago to pass new laws intended to gain additional votes. We need to get rid of the politicians and elect principled candidates who support the Constitution. Vote for a Libertarian Party candidate, or a third party candidate, or an independent candidate. If there are none running for a particular office, vote against the incumbent. Almost all incumbents, with only very rare exceptions like Ron Paul, are politicians. We need to get rid of the politicians. I was very encouraged to hear that Michael Reagan said this evening on his national radio show that the Libertarian Party is the only viable alternative to the old two parties. for Liberty (for all), Bill Utterback - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ======================================= NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY 2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100 Washington DC 20037 World Wide Web: http://www.lp.org/ ======================================= For release: October 25, 1999 ======================================= For additional information: George Getz, Press Secretary Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222 E-Mail: 76214.3676@Compuserve.com ======================================= Religion versus equality: Can landlords "discriminate" against unwed couples? WASHINGTON, DC -- A federal court should uphold the right of Americans to refuse to rent apartments to unmarried couples if such behavior violates a landlord's religious beliefs, the Libertarian Party said today. "For many Americans, there is a higher power than government anti-discrimination laws -- and it's the word of God," said Steve Dasbach, the party's national director. "Americans should never be put in the position of having to choose between the Bible and some government regulation." Last week, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco overturned a previous ruling that said laws against housing discrimination violated the religious freedom of two landlords in Anchorage, Alaska. The landlords had declined to rent to unmarried couples because they did not want to "facilitate the sin" of unwed people living together. A new 11-judge panel will now hear the case, and decide whether sincere religious beliefs can exempt landlords from housing discrimination laws. No date has yet been set for the hearing. Attorneys general from Alaska, California, Hawaii, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington support the new hearing, arguing that the government's interest in preventing "discrimination" trumps any personal religious beliefs. The Libertarian Party disagrees, said Dasbach. "Politicians should not have the right to force religious people to commit a sin in the name of government-mandated equality," he said. "In effect, the politicians are telling religious people: Your belief in the Bible doesn't matter. Your belief in the Ten Commandments doesn't matter. And that's the real discrimination here: Politicians are trying to place themselves above people's belief in God." Besides, noted Dasbach, the government is also guilty of the crime of racial bias -- since it proudly mandates discrimination via affirmative action programs, racially gerrymandered voting districts, quotas, minority business set-asides, and a host of other actions. "Politicians seem to think that a belief in government-enforced equality is a proper reason to discriminate, while a belief in God is not," said Dasbach. "Apparently, politicians pray to a higher power -- the power to force people to behave in government-approved ways." And here's another issue, he said: Exactly how far can the government go in its efforts to make any kind of rental "discrimination" illegal? "For example, can a church refuse to rent commercial space to devil worshipers? Can the NAACP refuse to rent to the Ku Klux Klan? Can the Gay & Lesbian Alliance refuse to rent to a group of homophobes? "In other words, should politicians be able to force any American to rent to organizations or individuals holding views that are profoundly antithetical to their religious, moral, or political values?" The answer for Libertarians is clear, he said: No -- and that's why politicians should get out of the business of meddling in the private economic decisions of Americans. "Ultimately, this isn't a matter of religious freedom, but economic freedom," he said. "It's a matter of recognizing that apartments are not government-owned commodities that politicians have a right to control and distribute. It's a matter of recognizing that in a free society, people have the right to make economic decisions based on whatever factors they choose -- whether religious, financial, or personal -- even if those decisions are politically unpopular." To move towards such a goal, Libertarians have a "religious" suggestion for politicians, said Dasbach. "It's time for a new commandment, one that only applies to politicians -- and one that would end this debate, once and for all," he said: "Thou shalt not meddle in the private economic decisions of individuals." - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBOBQCVNCSe1KnQG7RAQHYuAP6A/NFQe/xzFXg96GOo5tFORliNZypu/V4 wckhybj9oJmw8ffy7pqRGZuHLLJ1mgsi05HU1eYMGlHDOW/Rb/vYl0eBPpXJs+vI bK9T10NCIRx1NkuABK8kHVkaFfo2At7x5RZSYM5hsoM2dEaqUoNUOOBumOGrscD5 /nEXmT27Jbk= =SYMo - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- The Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/ 2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100 voice: 202-333-0008 Washington DC 20037 fax: 202-333-0072 For subscription changes, please mail to with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject line -- or use the WWW form. ******************************************************************* A couple of times a week, on average, I forward messages that I consider to be worthwhile. Occasionally I may be inspired to write a brief editorial. If you do not want to receive these messages, send me a message with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject field. If you would like to begin receiving these messages, send me a message with SUBSCRIBE in the subject field. for Liberty (for all), Bill Utterback butterb@connecti.com - ----- "We have the greatest opportunity the world has ever seen, as long as we remain honest -- which will be as long as we can keep the attention of our people alive. If they once become inattentive to public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, judges and governors would all become wolves." Thomas Jefferson "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." Samuel Adams "It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error." U.S. Supreme Court in American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442 - ----- World's Smallest Political Quiz http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/ Fully Informed Jury Association http://www.fija.org/ Gun Owners of America http://www.gunowners.org/ Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership http://www.JPFO.org/ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 99 06:33:16 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: FWD.doc (fwd) Well, we do seem to have gotten an awful lot of mileage out of l' Marquis de Laffayette.....:-) On Oct 27, luke speer wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Sent to me by a friend I write to in Houston TX. her comment quoted here: "Makes me want to get a flag pole" :-) Deb I have already told her to stop thinking about it and "do it".. America: The Good Neighbor Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you findmen on the moon - - not once, but several times - - and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those. - --------------------------------------------------------------- "If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws." ~ ~ EDWARD ABBEY (1927-1989) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #296 *************************