From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #319 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, February 17 2000 Volume 02 : Number 319 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Feb 00 06:50:58 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: www.millionmommarch.com (fwd) On Feb 13, ASSETNJ@AOL.COM wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 20:29:10 -0500 From: Richard Miller <103110.224@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: www.millionmommarch.com Reply-To: nj-rkba@toto.com This group is planning a march on Washington on Mother's Day, Sunday, May 14th, 2000 to protest our owning firearms without further restrictions They have a toll free number which means THEY PAY for every call they get! Let's put them out of business! 1-888-989-MOMS (6667). Call often! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 00 09:49:21 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RE: Gun Owners Bush Over McCain (fwd) The Constitution requires a moral and religious people, and is totally unsuited to the governance of any other. -- Mason or Madison if memory serves..... On Feb 13, Lew Glendenning wrote: >The Constitution is a system design document. It requires ethical people to >execute the design -- honest, positive sum games, ... > >It is not a moralistic document itself. It allows people who have morals (a >set of ethical principals + "rules to live by") to get along with others who >have equally valid, but different morals. It is specifically designed to >prvent any one such group from forcing their version of morals down the >throats of anyone else. "Freedom of religion", you know. > >Does Keyes favor repealing all Fed legislation regulatiing ALL drugs NOW? >Prostitution? ... Abortion? Medical care? If not, he isn't primarily a >Constitutionalist. > >Nevertheless, I am more impressed with Keyes' mind than any other >Republican. Can't really be sure any of the others have ever had an >original thought. > >Lew >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 12:38 PM >> To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: RE: Gun Owners Bush Over McCain (fwd) >> >> >> On Feb 13, Lew Glendenning wrote: >> >> > >> >I listenened to part of Keyes' speach recently, National Press Club, I >> >believe. >> > >> >Impressive mind. >> > >> >Nevertheless, a moralist. I may agree with 95% of his morals, his >> >statements about the moral decline of America, ... But, he >> leaves me queasy >> >because his approach will ultimately leave me as an outsider in >> his America. >> >> Refering to??? >> >> >Ultimately, Keyes is a moralist before he is a Constitutionalist. >> >> Meaning what? The Constitution itself is a moralist document. >> >> >Fatal flaw. >> > >> >The Libertarian position has room for a Keyes. Keyes doesn't >> have room for >> >Libertarians. >> >> Again, refering to??? >> >> >Lew >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com >> >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 9:52 AM >> >> To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com >> >> Subject: Re: Gun Owners Bush Over McCain (fwd) >> >> >> >> >> >> Perhaps it's time to start uplifting Keyes in Prayer, and >> passing the word >> >> along..... >> >> >> >> On Feb 13, Harry Gilbert wrote: >> >> >> >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows >> >> --------------------] >> >> >> >> Bill Vance wrote: >> >> >> >> > On Feb 12, ataylor@NMSU.Edu wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >Keyes clearly supports the RKBA. McCain does not. Bush >> >> > >may be wishy-washy. >> >> > > >> >> > >Now then, one option would be to support Keyes as much as possible >> >> > >in the primaries, to clearly make the point that firearms owners >> >> > >are a major constituency, and the GOP takes us for granted at their >> >> > >peril. >> >> > >> >> > That's what I figure, too. Who knows, he might just make >> it, but if he >> >> > doesn't, we've at least given the message to the guy who does. >> >> > >> >> >> >> In Michigan, the local papers are gushing over McCain, and >> >> questioning Bush's >> >> ability to win, while totally ignoring Keyes. Even columnist >> >> Thomas Sowell >> >> talks about McCain and Bush, ignores Keyes. It's a policy of >> nearly total >> >> silence (they DID show a picture of Keyes sitting quiety, >> >> "praying before a >> >> speech", but failed to report his speech or his issues at all). >> >> >> >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message >> >> ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:38:45 -0800 From: "Steven A. Silver" Subject: [Fwd: New Jon Dougherty article on COA] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------B24C57EF882ADF174C2ADADF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- Steve Silver Attorney at Law: http://www.silver-legal.com/ The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society: http://www.thelsas.org/ Citizens of America (fighting back): http://citizensofamerica.org/ Get the TRUTH About Guns: http://www.guntruths.com/ - --------------B24C57EF882ADF174C2ADADF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.12]) by mail00.dfw.mindspring.net (Mindspring/Netcom Mail Service) with ESMTP id sa99pr.6l1.33qs884 Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:20:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-63.208.237.187.LosAngeles.Level3.net [63.208.237.187]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13453; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:15:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38A4A64E.13B1ADAF@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:16:15 -0800 From: Brian Puckett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Puckett Subject: New Jon Dougherty article on COA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 For another view of COA and what it's doing, please visit WorldNet Daily columnist Jon Dougherty's column for Friday, Feb. 11, found at the link below: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty_com/20000211_xcjod_are_we_goi.shtml Mr. Dougherty's reference to $20 concerns the fact that if everyone receiving COA's most recent email contributed just $20, COA would have enough funds to complete ALL projects planned for year 2000. More than $20 would be appreciated, of course. COA is not a membership organization. If you're an American or are in the process of becoming one through naturalization, you're already a "member". We DO send out updates on news, projects, and improvements. NOTE: regarding credit card donations through our site: COA's site will only take MC and VISA. Some individual card accounts will not process an internet transaction, though this is rare. Please try again if you get an error message, as the system occasionally bogs down. Thanks in advance for any financial support you can provide. We spend our funds as carefully and efficiently as possible. - -- Brian Puckett President, Citizens Of America COA runs a national pro-firearm media campaign --and YOU can help! Visit http://www.citizensofamerica.org - --------------B24C57EF882ADF174C2ADADF-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:04:35 -0800 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Gun Owners Bush Over McCain (fwd) I can even agree with this. But, I look for something MORE in anyone I vote for: strict adherence to the Constitution over and above any religion, ideology, personal morality, ... You don't have to have a Ph.D. in history to know that there have been more tyrannies based on religion than any other foundation. Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 9:49 AM > To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > Subject: RE: Gun Owners Bush Over McCain (fwd) > > > The Constitution requires a moral and religious people, and is totally > unsuited to the governance of any other. -- Mason or Madison if memory > serves..... > > On Feb 13, Lew Glendenning wrote: > > >The Constitution is a system design document. It requires > ethical people to > >execute the design -- honest, positive sum games, ... > > > >It is not a moralistic document itself. It allows people who > have morals (a > >set of ethical principals + "rules to live by") to get along > with others who > >have equally valid, but different morals. It is specifically designed to > >prvent any one such group from forcing their version of morals down the > >throats of anyone else. "Freedom of religion", you know. > > > >Does Keyes favor repealing all Fed legislation regulatiing ALL drugs NOW? > >Prostitution? ... Abortion? Medical care? If not, he isn't primarily a > >Constitutionalist. > > > >Nevertheless, I am more impressed with Keyes' mind than any other > >Republican. Can't really be sure any of the others have ever had an > >original thought. > > > >Lew > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 12:38 PM > >> To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > >> Subject: RE: Gun Owners Bush Over McCain (fwd) > >> > >> > >> On Feb 13, Lew Glendenning wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >I listenened to part of Keyes' speach recently, National Press Club, I > >> >believe. > >> > > >> >Impressive mind. > >> > > >> >Nevertheless, a moralist. I may agree with 95% of his morals, his > >> >statements about the moral decline of America, ... But, he > >> leaves me queasy > >> >because his approach will ultimately leave me as an outsider in > >> his America. > >> > >> Refering to??? > >> > >> >Ultimately, Keyes is a moralist before he is a Constitutionalist. > >> > >> Meaning what? The Constitution itself is a moralist document. > >> > >> >Fatal flaw. > >> > > >> >The Libertarian position has room for a Keyes. Keyes doesn't > >> have room for > >> >Libertarians. > >> > >> Again, refering to??? > >> > >> >Lew > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > >> >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 9:52 AM > >> >> To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > >> >> Subject: Re: Gun Owners Bush Over McCain (fwd) > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Perhaps it's time to start uplifting Keyes in Prayer, and > >> passing the word > >> >> along..... > >> >> > >> >> On Feb 13, Harry Gilbert wrote: > >> >> > >> >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > >> >> --------------------] > >> >> > >> >> Bill Vance wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > On Feb 12, ataylor@NMSU.Edu wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > >Keyes clearly supports the RKBA. McCain does not. Bush > >> >> > >may be wishy-washy. > >> >> > > > >> >> > >Now then, one option would be to support Keyes as much > as possible > >> >> > >in the primaries, to clearly make the point that firearms owners > >> >> > >are a major constituency, and the GOP takes us for > granted at their > >> >> > >peril. > >> >> > > >> >> > That's what I figure, too. Who knows, he might just make > >> it, but if he > >> >> > doesn't, we've at least given the message to the guy who does. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> In Michigan, the local papers are gushing over McCain, and > >> >> questioning Bush's > >> >> ability to win, while totally ignoring Keyes. Even columnist > >> >> Thomas Sowell > >> >> talks about McCain and Bush, ignores Keyes. It's a policy of > >> nearly total > >> >> silence (they DID show a picture of Keyes sitting quiety, > >> >> "praying before a > >> >> speech", but failed to report his speech or his issues at all). > >> >> > >> >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message > >> >> ------------------------] > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 00 19:38:24 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: PETITION: Gun Control is not working] (fwd) On Feb 14, ASSETNJ@AOL.COM wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I thought you might be interested in this petition. Please sign and pass it on... Gun Control is not working Click here to sign this petition: http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=326290 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:59:44 -0500 From: Darryl Gibson Organization: RKBA! To: nj-rkba@toto.com Subject: [Fwd: PETITION: Gun Control is not working] From: paff@pobox.com To: n2diy@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Subject: PETITION: Gun Control is not working Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:39:24 -0500 Hello, I thought you might be interested in this petition. Please sign and pass it on... Gun Control is not working Click here to sign this petition: http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=326290 No matter how much we regulate and prohibit the use of guns, criminals will always have access to them. We must protect our Second Amendment Rights and start catching, prosecuting, and putting away criminals, not making more laws about gun ownership that have not and will not prevent crimes. The police can not always protect us from criminals and our rights to protect ourselves should not be taken away. Click here to sign this petition: http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=326290 E- The People, http://www.e-thepeople.com, is a free, nonpartisan Web service committed to better communication between citizens and government. ****************************************************************************** Send submissions to nj-rkba@toto.com. Administrative requests (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc.) should be sent to nj-rkba-request@toto.com. The human maintainer is behanna@fast.net. For emergencies outside of working hours, reach him at behanna@fast.net. Chris BeHanna maintains this list and disclaims all formal and legal responsibility for its content. ****************************************************************************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 00 20:46:41 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [harpazo] The Slave Tax (fwd) On Feb 15, Ernie Gray wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: Ernie Gray Hi Folks. Here's an article I came across by Alan Keyes Oh, if only this message could be heard above the din that the media is making over the "front runners" We need to pray for this man to get elected or at least get a fair amount of exposure! Ernie +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Scrapping the Slave Tax by Alan Keyes Why is it that those who work hardest to deny the connection of "economic" and "moral" issues are also the ones who use money to manipulate the moral lives of Americans? The Bush/Forbes vote auction in Ames, Iowa, last weekend was just the latest example of corrosive big money at work in our political process. What could have been a genuine and informative test of grass roots support became instead a Roman circus of dancing girls, free banquets, and deluxe free transportation, as the money candidates worked hard to import enough well-fed and happy bodies to pump up their vote counts. The cause of self-government suffered as a result, as even Lamar Alexander can attest. In Ames, as in the political life of the Republic, money matters precisely because of its effect on the moral foundation of our life. Economic policy should be judged first in view of its effect on the character of this people. Let's turn away from the circus in Ames and consider the relation of money and character on a larger, and more important stage. In case anyone is seriously tempted to be content with the modest gestures toward tax cuts that Republicans are chattering about in Washington, let's remember that there is only one version of tax reform that is adequate for a free country: We must abolish the income tax and replace it with the tax system that was intended by our Founders -- a tax system that leaves our people in control of 100 percent of their dollars, reinforces the deep habits of responsible liberty, and puts in place a permanent and effective impediment to the unlimited fiscal ambitions of our government. Abolition of the income tax must be the premier goal of moral conservatives in the area of tax policy, and we must pursue this goal above all because of its moral dimension. The tax issue is a moral issue because it raises fundamental questions about the way American citizens will insist that they be treated by their government. The income tax is a slave tax, and accepting it will eventually replace the American spirit of ordered liberty with a materialistic servility. We should eliminate the tax code, repeal the 16th Amendment, and fund the government through tariffs, duties and excise taxes (i.e., sales taxes) as the Founders intended for good reason. Most people already pay state and local sales taxes, and so their implementation at the federal level would not be the wild and risky innovation some opponents imply. But even if it is difficult, the benefits would massively outweigh the effort. Just for starters, restoring tariffs and duties to their proper role will make foreign populations who benefit from access to the U.S. market share the burden of supporting the governmental system that guarantees its existence. But the important reasons lie deeper. Under a national sales tax, our income will be exposed to taxation only AFTER we make the decision about how to use it. Instead of waiting upon the whim of politicians and bureaucrats, we will control our own tax burden by controlling the amount and pattern of our consumption. And in larger economic terms, an excise tax system would impose natural limits on the rate of taxation -- excessive rates would shrink revenue just as surely as excessive prices shrink the revenue of producers of consumer goods. The government's revenue from taxation would depend on the voluntary choices of millions of citizens, and a government that couldn't elicit from those citizens their agreement to make taxable purchases would simply have to do without the corresponding revenue -- a tax cut "passed" by the people directly, not the Congress! This is what the Founders intended to be our economic situation -- ordinary citizens in the driver's seat of the economic patterns of their own lives. Liberty from the income tax would mean, of course, liberty from the IRS. We would no longer have our privacy invaded by a government that was interested -- officially and legally -- in rummaging about in our business to find out how much we make, where and how we make it, and what we do with it. These questions used to be considered private business, but now the government of this supposedly free people can ask them at its pleasure, compelling satisfactory answers with the threat of jail and confiscation. Such systemic bureaucratic intimidation is fundamentally contrary to any substantive notion of political liberty. By contrast, under a sales-tax system we would not have to report the facts of our individual economic situation or choices to a living soul. The servile presumptions built into the income tax system have already had a deeply corrosive effect on the quality and extent of the responsibility we take for our own lives. The distance the income tax has already taken us down the road to servitude can be demonstrated by considering how rarely it is that we even question the government's right to know how much money we make. We blithely file our income tax every year, straining to report with accuracy and completeness to anonymous clerks at a federal agency matters that we don't expect any but our closest friends to ask us about, and which we probably would not discuss with our own children. Has it occurred to us sufficiently to ask what right or legitimacy there is to this fiscal exhibitionism? The income tax is objectionable not only for economic reasons, and because the Founders took care to exclude it from the Constitution. It is also bad because it is based upon a premise that destroys one of the material foundations of privacy, and therefore of liberty. How can there be political liberty if there is no sphere of privacy beyond the reach of government? And how can there be such a sphere of privacy without a protected source of material support for it? A free and vigilant people should never have tolerated this totalitarian beachhead for a moment. The income tax is an inherently communistic tax, precisely because one of the prerequisites of freedom is a sphere of privacy. It is based upon the premise of the preemptive claim of the government to full knowledge of the material foundations of private life. But when we allow any aspect of our lives to be treated as intrinsically the concern of the government, we implicitly accept the role of government to judge and control that aspect. The only reason government has to know about something is in order to regulate and control it. And so in granting in principle that the government has a right to know everything about our economic life, we have granted its right to control it as well. And if we intend to deny the government comprehensive control over our economic life, we will have to deny its claim to comprehensive knowledge -- which is the essence of the income tax. Inevitably, then, the decades of implicit acknowledgment that we are not sovereign in our personal economic lives have been like a universal solvent, dissolving the private and personal resolve each of us should have to control responsibly the actions we take in the acquisition and expenditure of wealth. The habits of American liberty run deep and have shown impressive resiliency. But habits, though long-lived, can finally die. Eventually the logic of the slave tax will work its way through the whole man, and we will make our peace with servility. Unless, that is, we root the thing out soon. The issue is not the fairness or amount of the tax burden. The tax itself is the problem. The income tax must be replaced with a tax structure the first premises of which are the capacity of American citizens to make their own economic decisions responsibly, and the intrinsic role of such economic responsibility in the formation of the character necessary to preserve liberty. Men and women not fit to control their wages are not fit to control their government - -- this is the logic of the dilemma, and we must act accordingly. If the moral case against the income tax is made forcefully and well, it will carry the day. The economic case against the tax is, of course, also overwhelming. And a further case can be made that technological developments will soon make the entire structure as much a relic as the doomed attempt of the Soviet Union to prevent its people from communicating among themselves. It is likely that the question is not whether to replace the income tax, but how to prepare for its collapse. But these complementary arguments must not distract us from the fundamental one -- a free people that pays slave taxes to its government is willingly training itself for bondage. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 00 20:43:35 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Major White House cover - up (fwd) On Feb 15, PROFAL5205@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] White House Accused Of New, Major Cover-Up By Jerry Seper and Andrew Cain The Washington Times http://208.246.212.80/national/news1-02152000.htm 2-15-2000 The White House hid thousands of e-mails containing information on Filegate, Chinagate, campaign finance abuses and Monica Lewinsky, all of which were under subpoena by a federal grand jury and three congressional committees, a former White House computer manager says. Sheryl L. Hall, chief of White House computer operations who has since moved to a similar position at the Treasury Department, said administration officials covered up the fact that electronic messages from August 1996 to November 1998 had not been surrendered, as required by law, deciding instead to label them as "classified" documents. She said the cover-up was part of a bid to delay the investigations into 2001. "Contractors working at the White House discovered the glitch showing that 100,000 White House e-mails involving nearly 500 computer users had not been located during the document search," said Mrs. Hall. "When the contractors told the White House about the problem, they were threatened, warned not to discuss it. They were told the documents were classified. "In fact, a White House official told one of the contractors they had a jail cell with his name on it if he discussed the matter," she said. At least 4,000 of the e-mails involved or related to Miss Lewinsky, the former White House intern with whom President Clinton has admitted having a sexual relationship, she said. The veteran computer manager, who left the White House after being demoted for questioning the propriety of the administration's use of a database system for political purposes, has since become a critic of the White House. She has accused first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton and nine White House political appointees in a pending lawsuit of job harassment and reprisals for her complaints. The suit has been filed in U.S. District Court in Washington by Judicial Watch, a public interest law firm. In addition to the Lewinsky messages, she said hundreds of other e-mails included references to the White House's receiving secret FBI files on former Reagan and Bush administration officials; information on the selection of corporate executives for overseas trade trips; and messages concerning campaign finance activities in the 1996 election. She said the glitch was first discovered in May 1998, when the contractors traced a programming error on one of four White House servers back to August 1996. The error involved e-mails to and from 464 White House computer users and the problem was not fixed until November 1998. The White House e-mails had been sought under subpoena by a federal grand jury, the Senate Judiciary Committee, the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee and the House Government Reform Committee. They also were sought by Judicial Watch in separate pending suits involving Filegate and Chinagate. Mrs. Hall, who was assigned to the White House in October 1992 from the Naval Sea Systems Command, said the missing e-mails were discovered when the contractor, Northrop Grumman Corp., found that one of the four White House Lotus Notes e-mail servers handling the mail for about 500 computer users had been mislabeled and that a White House search of electronic messages under the subpoenas was incomplete. She said e-mails from that server were not properly managed for a two-year period - meaning they were not collected by the mainframe computer during the subpoena record search. Mrs. Hall said White House project directors, Mark Lindsay and Laura Crabtree, were told by Northrop Grumman of the glitch but chose not to make the problem public. "There's no doubt they knew the search had not been complete, and the missing records included those involving Miss Lewinsky and other matters of concern," she said. "They could have retrieved the documents, and they should have done it forthrightly." Mr. Lindsay, head of the White House Office of Management and Administration, did not return calls seeking comment. Miss Crabtree, customer support branch chief at the White House who has since moved to the Labor Department, was unavailable for comment. White House spokesman James Kennedy said administration officials made "a good faith effort to respond in a timely fashion to all requests for information" sought under subpoena, but declined to elaborate. "We generally do not discuss the details of particular requests," he said. Mr. Kennedy would not address Mrs. Hall's accusation that 100,000 electronic messages were not turned over, saying he was "not going to get into the specifics of any allegation." Northrup Grumman spokesman Larry Hamilton, who said he was unfamiliar with the White House contract and would check with others at Northrup Grumman to determine what might have happened, did not call back. In her pending lawsuit against Mrs. Clinton, Mrs. Hall said the first lady oversaw the political misuse of the White House Office Database (WHODB). Her lawsuit says she was abused at Mrs. Clinton's behest after voicing objections to using career White House employees and the WHODB system for illegal political activities. The political activities are not detailed in the suit, but Mrs. Hall's complaint quotes from an October 1998 report by the House Government Reform Committee saying senior White House officials used the $1.7 million WHODB system to "advance the campaign fund-raising objectives of the Democratic National Committee." After she voiced her concerns, Mrs. Hall was replaced by Miss Crabtree. In her suit, she said Michelle Peterson of the White House Counsel's Office told her administration strategy about subpoenas was to "stall because we had just a couple of more years to go." Miss Peterson has denied the accusation. The White House called the charges "baseless." But, Mrs. Hall said, the decision to hide the e-mails from the grand jury and the committees was part of a "continuing campaign by the White House to delay and impede" the investigations. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 00 21:49:25 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Teachers (fwd) On Feb 15, InTheRiver wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: "InTheRiver" This is cute..... According to a radio report, a middle school in Oregon was faced with a unique problem. A number of girls were beginning to use lipstick and would put it on in the bathroom. That was fine, but after they put on their lipstick they would press their lips to the mirror leaving dozens of little lip prints. Finally the principal decided that something had to be done. She called all the girls to the bathroom and met them there with the maintenance man. She explained that all these lip prints were causing a major problem for the custodian who had to clean the mirrors every night. To demonstrate how difficult it was to clean the mirrors, she asked the maintenance guy to clean one of the mirrors. He took out a long-handled squeegee, dipped it into the toilet and then cleaned the mirror. Since then there have been no lip prints on the mirror. There are teachers. . .and then there are Teachers. - - Monte [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 00 19:39:26 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] Fwd: URGENT!!! (fwd) On Feb 16, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:15:31 -0700 >From: CAROL >Reply-To: biblebum@frii.com >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) >X-Accept-Language: en >To: 0CAROL (SNIP ADDRESSES) > >Reply before Thursday morning!!!! It is urgent you go to this web page >and send your URGENT objection to all your medical records being given >to anyone who desires to look at them, without your consent. These have >to be hand delivered in the morning, so a place on this web will provide >your a place to write a simple objection so the fine gentleman can hand >walk them to the State House in the morning. > >http://www.stopbigbrother.org > >Thanks for joining the fight!! > >Carol [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 00 09:14:00 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Petition to disbar Clinton (fwd) On Feb 17, by way of Josephine Lindsay Bass wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Ken Hamblin Talk Show http://www.hamblin.com ================================================== Dear Friend, You might have heard me talking on my radio program recently about the ongoing effort to disbar Bill Clinton in the State of Arkansas. The Southeastern Legal Foundation has undertaken this project to force Bill Clinton to surrender his license to practice law, and now our help is needed. I told Matt Glavin, the President of the Southeastern Legal Foundation, that I would email you and ask you go to the SLF website and sign their online PETITION TO DISBAR BILL CLINTON. Bill Clinton's political friends in the Arkansas power structure have delayed and stonewalled the disbarment process and SLF needs to gather 250,000 PETITIONS TO DISBAR BILL CLINTON in order to show them that all of America is watching their actions. Please take a moment to Click on this link and sign the Southeastern Legal Foundation online PETITION TO DISBAR BILL CLINTON. While you're at the SLF website, you might want to look at some of the other SLF national projects that also benefit conservatives in every part of the country. Many thanks, Ken Hamblin ========================================================== PETITION TO DISBAR BILL CLINTON http://www.southeasternlegal.org/cgi-bin/kh.pl AOL USERS: PETITION TO DISBAR BILL CLINTON ========================================================== If you would like to be removed from this list visit: http://www.webforums.com/forums/g-read/msa20.36.html Your address is on our list as jbass@digital.net ================================================== Powered by Webforums Copyright 1999 Waveshift, Inc. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #319 *************************