From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #327 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Saturday, April 15 2000 Volume 02 : Number 327 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Apr 00 08:56:58 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] Re: THE JUBILEE 2000 SCAM (fwd) On Apr 12, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] spiker wrote: > MEDIUM RARE by Jim Rarey > April 10, 2000 > > THE JUBILEE 2000 SCAM > > [The following article is a reprint of a piece this writer published in > early November last year just before the WTO meeting in Seattle where the > subject of debt reduction for third world countries was on the agenda. As > this foreword is being written, the writer is watching (on C-Span) a replay > of a "Jubilee 2000 USA" rally held yesterday in Washington D.C. Federal > officials and assorted left wing groups and individuals are exhorting the > crowd to put pressure on congress to "make money available" for debt > cancellation. As outlined below, the beneficiaries will be federal and > international agencies and investment bankers. That they have chosen to > hide the scam behind the biblical concept of "jubilee"(where all debts were > forgiven and property returned to its original owner) only shows the > depravity and absolute hypocrisy of those behind it] > > DEBT FORGIVENESS WHO GETS PAID? > > Once again the Congress, (House and Senate, Republicans and Democrats) and > the President are misleading the American public and insulting the > intelligence of many who understand basic bookkeeping and/or household > budgeting. > > The Foreign Operations and Export Financing bill (HR3196) appropriates > nearly $300 million for "debt reduction" for poor countries in Africa. This > is in recognition of the inability of those impoverished nations to repay > unspecified loans. This writer has no problem with the concept of "debt > forgiveness" in those circumstances. However, you don t need to appropriate > more money in order to forgive a debt. > > If you loan someone $100 and later decide to forgive that debt owed you, > you don t have to come up with another $100. You simply adjust your budget > to reflect the fact that you will have $100 less available to spend, save > or whatever you had planned to do with the $100 scheduled for repayment to you. > > What the Congress is doing in appropriating money for so-called debt relief > is paying off a third party so that the African countries will not have to > pay it. The question is "who or what is that third party?" > > The managers of the bill claimed that the debt to be forgiven is owed to > the U.S. Government. If that is true, and it is becoming increasingly > difficult to believe the assertions of members of both parties, then the > money is owed to some agency or agencies of the government that originally > loaned the money, e.g. the Import/Export Bank, or one of the many other > agencies that makes loans to foreign countries and government owned > entities in foreign countries. > > Thus we must conclude that the money being appropriated for "debt > forgiveness" will be directed to the agencies that originally made the > uncollectible (bad) loans. This will give them additional funds for making > more loans (to the same poor countries?) with money that was not > specifically authorized by Congress for that purpose. In other words, it s > a back door method of increasing foreign aid without calling it that, while > characterizing the action as humanitarian "debt relief." > > That little, if any, of the aid to those African countries actually > trickles down to the poverty-stricken populace is a major reason for > opposition to "foreign aid." Corruption of the leaders in many of those > countries, whether "democracies" or dictatorships, is an international > scandal. In truth, much of so-called foreign aid comes back to the > mega-corporations in the form of arms sales. > > To add insult to injury, it is suggested that these poor countries can use > the money they would have used for debt repayment for other needed programs > in their countries. If the money they got in loans was not spent for those > "necessary programs" and they don t have the money to repay the loans, > where are they going to get the extra money? It s a non sequitur. > > When international organizations such as the IMF and World Bank talk about > needing more money for "debt relief", it works much the same way except for > the third parties getting the payoffs. In most cases the beneficiaries will > be the investment bankers who made the bad loans in the first place (but > collected millions or billions in interest on the loans at exorbitant > interest rates). > > The fact that the politicians have to hide the true effects of their > actions behind disingenuous subterfuges like "debt reduction" shows they > know the public would not approve if presented in a straightforward manner. > So much for integrity! > > Permission is granted to reproduce this article in its entirety. > The author is a free lance writer based in Romulus, Michigan. He is a > former newspaper editor and investigative reporter, a retired customs > administrator and accountant, and a student of history and the U.S. > Constitution. > > If you would like to receive Medium Rare articles directly, contact us at > msutton828@provide.net. Although not required, we would appreciate an > indication of your general location. We like to know where our articles are > being received. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 00 09:44:15 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] Fwd: Fw: And we think WE be's ejukated???!! (fwd) On Apr 13, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] /////// SENT FYI// >>From: "Bonnie" >>To: >>Subject: Fw: And we think WE be's ejukated???!! >>Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:20:20 -0700 >>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 >> >> >>Subject: And we think WE be's ejukated???!! >> >> >Smoky Valley >> >> Genealogical >> >> > > Society and Library in Salina, Kansas and reprinted by the Salina >> >> Journal. >> >> > > >> >> > > 8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, Kansas - 1895 >> >> > > >> >> > > Grammar (Time, one hour) >> >> > > >> >> > > 1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters. >> >> > > 2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no >> >> modifications. >> >> > > 3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph. >> >> > > 4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of >> >> do, lie, >> >> > > lay and run. >> >> > > 5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case. >> >> > > 6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of >> >> Punctuation. >> >> > > 7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein >> >> > > that you understand the practical use of the rules of >> >> grammar. >> >> > > >> >> > > Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours) >> >> > > >> >> > > 1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic. >> >> > > 2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many >> >> bushels >> >> > > of wheat will it hold? >> >> > > 3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. >> >> per bu, >> >> > > deducting 1050 lbs. for tare? >> >> > > 4 District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary >> >> levy to >> >> > > carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for >> >> > > incidentals? >> >> > > 5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton. >> >> > > 6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 >> >> percent. >> >> > > 7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $ >> >> .20 per >> >> > > inch? >> >> > > 8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent. >> >> > > 9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance >> >> around >> >> > > which is 640 rods? >> >> > > 10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt. >> >> > > >> >> > > U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes) >> >> > > 1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided. >> >> > > 2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus. >> >> > > 3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War. >> >> > > 4. Show the territorial growth of the United States. >> >> > > 5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas. >> >> > > 6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion. >> >> > > 7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, >> >> Penn, and >> >> > > Howe? >> >> > > 8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, >> >> 1849, and >> >> > > 1865? >> >> > > >> >> > > Orthography (Time, one hour) >> >> > > >> >> > > 1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, >> >> etymology, >> >> > > syllabication? >> >> > > 2. What are elementary sounds? How classified? >> >> > > 3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, >> >> subvocals, >> >> > > diphthong, cognate letters, linguals? >> >> > > 4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'. >> >> > > 5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two >> >> exceptions under >> >> > > each rule. >> >> > > 6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each. >> >> > > 7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: >> >> Bi, dis, >> >> > > mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super. >> >> > > 8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and >> >> name the >> >> > > sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, >> >> rise, blood, >> >> > > fare, last. >> >> > > 9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, >> >> fain, >> >> > > feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays. >> >> > > 10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate >> >> pronunciation by use >> >> > > of diacritical marks and by syllabication. >> >> > > >> >> > > Geography (Time, one hour) >> >> > > >> >> > > 1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend? >> >> > > 2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas? >> >> > > 3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean? >> >> > > 4. Describe the mountains of N.A. >> >> > > 5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, >> >> Manitoba, >> >> > > Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco. >> >> > > 6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S. >> >> > > 7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each. >> >> > > 8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same >> >> latitude? >> >> > > 9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to >> >> the sources >> >> > > of rivers. >> >> > > 10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the >> >> earth. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > >> >> > > Imagine a college student who went to public school trying to pass >> >> this test, >> >> > > even if the few outdated questions were modernized. Imagine their >> >> professors >> >> > > even being able to pass the 8th Grade. Can Americans, student and >> >> professor >> >> > > alike, get back up to the 8th Grade level of 1895! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 00 09:42:19 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [newsucanuse] Re: April 14 column -- Thomas Gaule (fwd) On Apr 14, SlickEditor@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz The troublesome case of Thomas Gaule A series of unusual things happened in Clark County District Judge Mark Gibbons' courtroom on April 4. The defendant, Thomas Gaule, stood convicted of voluntary manslaughter with a deadly weapon, a charge which could have netted him years in the state pen. Last year, a Clark County jury had convicted Gaule, 43, of chasing Ricky Tripp down Lakehurst Road in Las Vegas on Oct. 25 of 1998, and killing him with a shotgun. Officials at the Nevada state Division of Parole and Probation recommended a sentence of at least four years in prison. Generally speaking, a fellow in the position Mr. Gaule found himself in last Tuesday would be well advised to have brought along a toothbrush. But that's when the unusual things began to happen. Rising to oppose the recommendation of the Division of Parole and Probation was ... Chief Deputy District Attorney Bill Koot. "This case has been troublesome to me personally for as long as I've been assigned to this case," said Koot, who rarely stands to oppose the sentencing recommendations of the Parole Division. But in this case, Mr. Koot said he doubted prison time would serve any purpose. More, he said he believed jailing Gaule would send "the wrong message," that members of the public do not want to see a citizen go to prison in a case like Gaule's. Judge Gibbons promptly agreed: "If there's ever a case with extenuating circumstances, this is the one." The judge then sentenced Thomas Gaule to a period of probation not to exceed three years -- no jail time. For killing two men with a shotgun. If prosecutor Koot was so troubled, of course, one might ask why he pursued the case at all. But let's admit it did take some political courage to do what he and Judge Mark Gibbons did last week. Why did they do it? What happened to Thomas Gaule on the afternoon of Oct. 25, 1998 is that he came home to find two burglars in his house. He testified the two men jumped him and beat him severely, shocking him repeatedly with high-powered stun guns. He can still show the scars on his neck. Somehow, Gaule managed to make it into another room to retrieve a shotgun. He testified at his trial the men came at him even after he had retrieved the firearm, wrestling with him for control of the weapon. So Thomas Gaule shot them. Jason Allen Lamb was hit inside the house and died in the driveway. Ricky Tripp died 500 feet down the street, after Gaule chased him out of the house and fired again. In the death of Jason Allen Lamb, no charges were ever filed. Kill a burglar and assailant in Nevada, in self-defense, at the scene of the crime, and it's "case closed." Rightly so. In the death of Ricky Tripp, the question was whether a victim and homeowner -- Gaule -- has a right to chase down a home invader and assailant after that assailant turns to flee. Was Gaule still in fear for his life at the time he fired his final shot? The trial jury thought not. But was Gaule stunned and confused enough by his experience that his actions are excusable -- can society reasonably expect a man shocked with high-voltage taser blasts to the neck, on top of the fight-for-your-life adrenaline dump which could overrule normal deliberation for any average person caught in such a crisis, to pause at his doorway and muse on the intricacies of the laws of self-defense? Doubtless adding weight to Judge Gibbons' burden last Tuesday was the fact that Thomas Gaule is a quirky character, possessed of unusual opinions. "I think he's extremely paranoid ... obsessed with what he perceives to be an injustice," says prosecutor Koot. But Thomas Gaule has never been known to commit another violent act, before or since. Nor should defendants be sent to prison for their "oddball views," as correctly observed by Gaule's attorney, Peter S. Christiansen. In the end, Judge Gibbons authorized probation officials to require counseling for Mr. Gaule, and treatment for depression. And then he sent Thomas Gaule home. In the end -- while a felony trial and record are no picnic, and the jury clearly issued no license for others to engage in armed pursuits -- the county and the court decided the most important thing here was to protect the citizen's sacred right of self-defense. The county and the court ruled an otherwise peaceful Nevadan shouldn't go to prison for defending himself in his own home, even with deadly force, even if -- in the heat of a fight for his life -- he chases one of his tormentors out the door and down the street. It was a tough call. It's an oddity of modern American jurisprudence that civilians are held to a much higher standard than trained cops when it comes to shootings that aren't clear-cut self-defense. But last Tuesday, Chief Deputy D.A. Bill Koot and Judge Mark Gibbons got it right. Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John Hay, 1872 "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken * * * To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 00 17:45:20 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Florida Firearms Lawsuit Bill (fwd) On Apr 14, alerts@nra.org wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Florida Firearms Lawsuit Bill Need More E-mail in Support of SB-1398 Your emails are a tremendous help to us...Please keep working with us to protect your Second Amendment rights and Freedom!! This is a critical Committee for this bill. SB-1398 is scheduled for a hearing in the Governmental Oversight & Productivity Committee next MONDAY, April 17, 2000 at 3:30pm !!! SB-1398 by Sen. Charlie Bronson (R) is the Senate bill to stop governments from filing frivilous and reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (It is the companion bill to HB-1537 by Rep. George Albright) [Full summary below] Emails are IMMEDIATELY needed to members of this committee. IN THE SUBJECT LINE PUT:
SUPPORT SB-1398 by Bronson - Stop Gun Manufact. Lawsuits
Senate Governmental Oversight & Productivity Committee: Jack Latvala (R), Chair. latvala.jack.web@leg.state.fl.us Virginia Brown-Waite (R) brown-waite.g.web@leg.state.fl.us Anna Cowin (R) cowin.anna.web@leg.state.fl.us Mario Diaz-Balart (R) diaz-balart.mario.web@leg.state.fl.us Jim Horne (R) **no email** Phone (850) 487-5027 Ron Silver (D) **no email** Strong Antigun (don't waste your time) Tom Rossin (D) rossin.tom.web@leg.state.fl.us Bill Summary: SB-1398 CIVIL ACTIONS/GUN MANUFACTURERS by Sen. Charlie Bronson (R) -- Prohibits suing firearms manufacturers or firearms dealer on behalf of the state or its agencies and instrumentalities, or on behalf of a county, municipality, town, special purpose district, or any other subdivision of the state for damages, abatement, or injunctive relief resulting from or arising out of the lawful design, marketing, or sale of firearms to the public. Provides legislative findings and intent. Provides conditions when law suits are permitted. Provides for award of attorney's fees. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Having difficulty finding ILA-related info? Try our FAQ Sheet http://www.nraila.org/show.cgi?page=/grassroots/19990813-GeneralInfo-015.html NRAILA.org is maintained for the NRA by http://www.mainstream.net Mainstream Electronic Information Services Homepage established 1994 by the NRA Institute for Legislative Action 11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 00 08:38:55 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slickplus] Rich's Rants: Absolute power Corrupts (fwd) On Apr 15, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] What are you doing this Wednesday? I'll be at Mount Carmel in Waco remembering the blackest day in U.S. history. From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com "Almost anyone can stand adversity. To test a person's character, give him or her power." - Abraham Lincoln _______________________________________________ RICH'S RANTS 'Twas the Night before Christmas, actually, 'twas about a month before, we decided if we were to give the children a good Christmas, Peggy would have to get a Christmas job. We had one of our famous, or infamous, family meetings to discuss "Mom working outside of the home." The teenagers liked the idea of getting a lot of presents, so the die was cast. They agreed to pick up the slack in Peggy's absence. Now you've got to know, this was no mean feat. We had 2 teenagers watching 4 young 'uns. They'd have to watch the kids for about 2 hours each evening, between 4 to 6, and longer on days I went to school. And other chores were making dinner, doing the laundry and washing dishes. Still, we thought: they were 15 and 14, and if it didn't work, oh well, we tried. It did work out okay, but that isn't why I recount this life experience. The first day Peggy went to work was a school night for me. I rolled in full of skepticism around 9 PM. To my surprise, my fears were not realized. The house was orderly and quiet. The two youngest were already in bed (we had staggered bedtimes, 30 minutes apart, starting with the youngest, dictated by the fact we had but a single bathroom). With a sigh of relief, I thanked the oldest kids, and then went into the bathroom before the next half hour cycle started. That's when I noticed a sign, all in capitals: PUT LID DOWN WHEN THROUGH. When I returned to the kitchen, I saw a sign I missed earlier: put dishes in sink. Taped to the side of the washer was a sign: "<---- whites colored ----- >". The house was covered in signs, "no jumping on the bed", "no drinks after 8"; "put garbage in pail"; "DO NOT FEED FISH", "no TV until homework is finished", and so on. All together there had to be 10 signs or more. When Peg got home we had a good laugh about it, and decided we could make it thru the holiday season. Yesterday I left the house, as I always do, took a right at the light, on 2nd street. At the next corner there were 3 lights, one over each lane and one on the corner. When I got to Small Street, I was faced with 3 similar signals again. This was the first cross road, so there were 12 control lights, 3 from each direction. These were all hung on tornado proof metal poles. All this, and I was only half way to Main Street. I'm not sure what it means, but I became acutely aware of the eerie similarities with my decades old experience back in Lynn, MA. The Grand Prairie powers employed the same techniques to traffic control as my older kids used to control their brother and younger sisters. (Forget that 2 of them were preschool age, and couldn't read their signs.) Why does it take 3 top-of-the-line traffic signals to tell me to stop or go at virtually every intersection? Is it because they don't trust me to see/obey a single signal stuck on a pole? Why do they need a dozen lights using 3 doz bulbs to tell me if it was safe to go (assuming the guy on the cross street didn't jump the light). Did they forget, I've got eyes and a brain too? These modern metal posts with their overhanging lights must cost tens of thousands of dollars. I know they don't have to pay for them, we do. Perhaps you think I'm some kind of nut worrying about how much electric 36 bulbs at every intersection costs, NOT. Govt wastes much more money than that everyday before they turn the switchboard on in the morning. What bothers me is: the Fathers of the City think they have the right to control me just like my teenagers tried controlling their siblings; and I don't respond well to being controlled like a 4-year- old. Further, it doesn't say much for their leadership skills when they act like a couple of teenagers. Let me leave you with this one sobering thought, a thought our Forefathers knew all too well, when they designed our Constitution based on checks-and-balances: "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Author Unknown. To join/quit this list, send a blank email to join-slickplus@lists.spunge.org leave-slickplus@lists.spunge.org Nothing could be easier. See that circle on your calendar around April 19? That's supposed to remind you to go to the Davidian Memorial on that day. Hope to see you there. THE TRUTH IS... A. Powerful. C. In the eye of the beholder. B. Irrelevant. D. All of the above. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 00 08:39:56 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] 17th Amendment (fwd) On Apr 14, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > From The Desk Of > >Grandmothers For Honest Government >P.O. Box 6934 >Tyler, Texas 75711 >Working for better government today and all of tomorrow's. >Asking nothing for ourselves. > > PLEASE RE/POST > >THE 17th AMENDMENT OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION > >Was it Valid? Was it Constitutional? > > >Addressed to all State Legislators: > >The United States Constitution was ratified in 1787. For the following 125 >Years through 1912 we had a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC; whereby, each State >Legislature selected their two U.S. Senators. The House of >Representatives, on the other hand was selected by direct popular >vote. The basic premise was interded to give checks and balance in the >Federal Legislature, making laws coming from two distinctly different >points of view, maintaining State's Rights with a balance of influence >between the States and the Federal Government. This Legislative check and >balance were destroyed in 1913, (eighty-six years ago). The appointment of >U.S. Senators by State Legislators was replaced by popular vote. This >change was made in a period when force s were moving our Nation toward a >more dominant central government. In the same year, 1913, this movement >also brought Federal Reserve Banking and the FEDERAL INCOME TAX. >With Unlimited taxing power and limitless spending, we have a Federal >Government that is "out of control." This is the opinion of most Democrat >and Republican State Legislatures. >YOU can take an important step in bringing the Federal Government back in >control while at the same time restoring much of the original structure of >our CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, with equal partnership between Federal and >State Governments. >James,Madison expressed in the Federalist Papers, "The State Legislature is >the 'Voice of the State'and must be the vehicle for implementing States' >Rights through selection of the U.S. Senators; ONLY THEN, shall the balance >of power between the State and Federal Government be MAINTAINED in the U.S. >Legislature." Was this basic structure of our Constitution altered? >The last sentence of Article V of the Constitution clearly specifies, "NO >STATE, WITHOUT ITS CONSENT, SHALL BE DEPRIVED ITS EQUAL SUFFRAGE IN THE >SENATE." This is the key to States' Right's and States'Sovereignty! Each >State Legislature has the right to choose their two U.S. Senators >regardless of how other States select theirs. You will then hold your two >U.S. Senators accountable to your State through State Legislature thereof. >Article 1, Section 3, of the U.S. Constitution, states, "The Senate of the >United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, CHOSEN BY >THE LEGISLATURE THEREOF, for six years, and each Senator shall have one vote." >In 1931 an Archive Research Study (U.S. Senate Document # 240) was made by >the U.S. Senate in all forty-eight states. This study was to verify proof >of the validity of the ratification of all the Constitutional Amendments. >In 191 3 when three fourths or thirty-six of the then forty-eight States >were needed to ratify an Amendment. The U.S. Senate Study in 1931 >indicated 31 States ratifying the 17th Amendment in 1913, instead of the >necessary 36 States. The State Archive Search in 1996 came to the same >conclusion. The records do not confirm ratification in seventeen >states. Following are the results of this Archive Research. >- Five States (Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Virginia, and >Alabama) were not in session in 1913 and never considered the 17th Amendment. >- Georgia and Rhode Island (issue died in Committee) >- South Carolina (postponed the issue) >- Florida (never reached the State Senate) >- Utah and Delaware (rejected the 17th Amendment) >- Maine and New Hampshire's votes and procedure were questionable >(voice vote only). >Maine's record of voting in either chamber is nonexistent. New Hampshire's >record of State Senate vote is nonexistent. >- The States of North Carolina, Connecticut, and Massachusetts show >no record of a vote in one or both Legislative Chambers. >Louisiana passed in May 1914 (one year after the facts) >Regardless, the political pundits did not have the commission for changing >our Basic form of Government. >THE CONCLUSION-IS -- THE 17TH AMENDMENT WAS NEVER PROPERLY RATIFIED. >You may ask, "Why hasn't this question of validity been addressed through >the Federal Courts?" The answer is, it has been addressed several >times. However, the usual court answer, "It is too late to do anything >about this Amendment because it is already built into our System of >Government." This issue was set aside, by the 7th Federal Circuit Court >over a decade ago. (Law of Prescription) >As for the American people they are mostly honest and hard working. They >are our nation's taxpayers and they know right from wrong-The problem with >this amendment is :ust a simple math problem in addition and it is never >too late to correct a problem most especially when it completely changes >the intent of our Founding Fathers who gave us the most perfect government >the world has ever known. Since this amendment was never properly >ratified, it is the duty of each State Legislature to select two of their >members to represent their respective State in the United States Senate as >set forth in the United States Constitution ratified in 1787. >Let us live up to the intention of our Country's Founders and take action >on this part of our Constitution; whereby, you, the State Legislators may >select your two U.S. Senators. It's up to YOU -not the Federal Courts to >bring back what we yearn for -- a Federal Government under better control, >whereby, you in the State Legislature may have a say in Federal Taxation >and spending. Now is your opportunity to take immediate action on this >important issue by returning to our Constitutional Republic. >FOLLOWING IS THE BILL OR RESOLUTION TO BE INTRODUCED IN EACH STATE FOR >ACTIVATIND STATE LEGISLATIVE SELECTION OF THE TWO UNITED STATES SENATORS >THEREOF >1. Continuation or curtailment of the terms of the present U.S. >Senators to be left to the discretion of the State Legislatures thereof. >2. The wages of a U.S. Senator appointed by a State Leciislature shall >be paid by that State, and that Senator shall be accountable to the State >Legislature thereof. >3. The last clause of Article V of the U.S. Constitution specifies; >"...THAT NO STATE, WITHOUT ITS CONSENT SHALL BE DEPRIVED OF ITS EQUAL >SUFFRAGE IN THE SENATE." (This is the key to the very existence of States' >rights in the U.S. Senate) >4. States choosing to implement Article V shall activate Article 1, >Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. "The Senate of the United States shall >be composed of two Senators from each State, CHOSEN BY THE LEGISLATURE >THEREOF, for six years, and each Senator shall have one vote." >5. The Federal Courts shall have no commission in this basic structure >of our Government. (The Constitutional Republic) > >6. The States built and implemented our basic Constitution form of >Government including the Federal Courts -- It's the Commission of the >States -- not the Federal Courts -- to maintain this basic Governmental >structure -- the product of the constitutional convention in 1787. >7. There shall be NO ATTEMPT to use this Resolution as a vehicle to >open up a Constitutional Convention. It is not a question of altering this >excellent form of Government, but it is.a question of adhering to the basic >premises of this important document -- THE CONSTITUTION. >Submitted by, >Grandmothers for Honest Government > >Working for better government today and all of our tomorrows asking nothing >for ourselves. >Myra Davis-Dippel, President > >P.O. Box 6934 - Tyler, Texas 75711 > > > >NOTE: Myra and I have been working on this for several years. This letter >was sent to all of the State Legislatures of the 50 States United. It needs >to be done again. Myra has had a stroke and can not do any work on this >for the time being or may never be able to. In my opinion it would be nice >if a group from every state would pick up the work and carry it through >your State Legislature and get the 17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution >voided and give States control over their Senators in Washington, D.C. >again. If you have time please send Myra a Get Well Card. >Rocky [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 00 08:37:47 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] Gun-rights groups gang up on NRA. (fwd) On Apr 15, Odell Harwell wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Gun-rights groups gang up on NRA Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:12:06 EDT From: lynlinc3@aol.com Gun-rights groups gang up on NRA http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/20000415_xex_gunrights_gr.shtml Gun-rights groups gang up on NRA Accuse 2nd-Amendment giant of aiding gun-control efforts By David M. Bresnahan © 2000 WorldNetDaily.com A coalition of gun-rights organizations is attacking the National Rifle Association over the NRA's support of a program that attempts to hold the line on new gun control legislation by calling for strict enforcement of existing laws. Citizens of America already has the support of many national pro-gun organizations who have agreed to a declaration of opposition for the NRA's Project Exile. Citizens Of America http://www.citizensofamerica.org/ Exile Denouncement -- KeepAndBearArms.org http://www.keepandbeararms.org/exile_denouncement.htm The NRA, long critical of the Clinton administration for its failure to enforce existing gun laws and constantly battling efforts by gun-control advocates to pass newer and ever-more-restrictive gun laws, has endorsed the adoption of "Project Exile" -- which would require strict, mandatory enforcement of existing laws. The problem, according to the coalition of gun-rights groups, is that many of the existing laws whose enforcement is promoted by Project Exile are themselves unconstitutional and should never have been passed. Gun-rights activist Brian Puckett decided to challenge the policy of the NRA by forming the coalition and writing the statement to which member organizations have agreed. The statement calls for the NRA to drop its support of Project Exile and asserts that NRA leaders are actually helping gun-control advocates. National organizations that have joined the coalition and approved the statement include: Larry Pratt, executive director, Gun Owners of America Aaron Zelman, executive director, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership Steve Silver, president, Lawyers Second Amendment Society Nancy Herrington, executive vice president, Women Against Gun Control Russ Howard, executive director, Citizens Against Corruption Leroy Pyle, president, Paul Revere Network; executive director, Law Enforcement Alliance of America The statement was also agreed to by many state and local gun-rights organizations and Puckett says others are being asked to come onboard. The statement and a full list of supporters is displayed on the organization's website, while a separate website was created for members of the general public who want to add their name to the list. "Project Exile" Condemnation Coalition Petition http://www.petitiononline.com/exile/petition.html Puckett believes many gun owners give automatic support to the NRA's positions without taking the time to educate themselves on the issues. In an effort to inform gun owners, Puckett formed a coalition of gun rights groups and leaders when he created Citizens of America. He describes his supporters as "true pro-Constitution, pro-Second Amendment people and organizations." Speaking for himself, and not necessarily representing the views of the coalition of gun groups opposing Project Exile, Puckett told WND: The NRA is a great and powerful tool for upholding the Bill of Rights and it must be directed by men and women with a clear vision of these rights. One should never confuse the NRA or its members with the current leadership, the so-called 'winning team,' which has presided over the most profound and far-reaching losses of our Second Amendment Rights since the 1968 Gun Control Act. The 'winning team's attacks on the enemies of the Bill of Rights have been timid, misdirected, and ineffectual. And now we have their Project Exile - -- a complete reversal of position on unconstitutional gun laws. It is an utter betrayal of NRA membership and the organization's proud heritage. NRA president Charlton Heston spoke about the controversial initiative in a recent speech. "For years the NRA has demanded that Project Exile be deployed nationwide. Makes sense, huh? The laws are already on the books. Just enforce them. But Bill Clinton won't do it," said Heston in a speech at Yale. Puckett and his coalition of supporters believe Heston and other NRA leaders are advocating the support of laws that should not be on the books at all. The NRA claims it is all just a matter of strategy. It doesn't want any more laws enacted and has adopted what it considers an undeniably logical position - -- require the government to enforce existing laws before making new ones. Indeed, Heston blames Clinton for enacting laws simply for political gain without any effort to enforce them once they are established. "Everyone remembers all the press support for his 'desperately needed' semi-auto gun ban that outlawed guns based solely on their appearance. But nobody is reporting that out of thousands of certain offenders, the Clinton administration prosecuted four people in 1997 and four in 1998," said Heston. "It's surreal. Mr. Clinton stands in the Rose Garden with his 10 prop-cops, lip-biting in pained support of some new law. The press does its best to get it passed. It becomes law. Then everybody forgets about it. And Americans buy it over and over and over again," said Heston. "Maybe you think a politician's lies can't hurt you. But let me tell you, armed felons can. Passing laws is what keeps politicians' careers alive. Enforcing laws is what keeps you alive. But nobody's getting arrested, nobody's going to jail, it's all a giant scam," said the NRA president. Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America and one of Puckett's biggest supporters, told WorldNetDaily it's wrong to enforce laws that should not have been passed. He went so far as to claim that "most if not all existing gun laws are unconstitutional." "American firearm owners and supporters of the Bill of Rights have invested countless millions of dollars and man-hours to prevent these same laws from ever being passed. Clear-thinking Americans continue to work tirelessly to repeal them," said Puckett (in his statement signed by Pratt and the other gun rights supporters). The coalition was also critical of federal law enforcement agencies and the use of technical violations of the law to harass innocent people. "There is no connection between supporting the Bill of Rights and supporting federal laws that are un-American. Moreover, the agencies that enforce such laws slaughtered over 80 people in Waco, shot to death a young boy and his mother at Ruby Ridge and continually commit brutal acts against citizens under the guise of 'gun control.' The 'legal' excuse behind the Waco massacre was the unproved suspicion of 'illegal' machine-gun possession. The 'legal' excuse behind the Ruby Ridge killings was a shotgun that may have been a quarter inch too short. Both are examples of 'zero tolerance,'" said the group in its statement. The NRA has spoken out strongly in support of the enforcement of federal laws regarding the illegal possession of firearms by juveniles. "Armed gangbangers should be afraid of getting caught. But, in the past two years, the President's Justice Department has prosecuted only 11 juveniles anywhere in the country for illegal possession of handguns," said LaPierre in a recent speech. But, according to Puckett and his group of supporters, despite LaPierre's good intentions there will be many problems for innocent gun owners if laws are strictly enforced. "This could be your 15-year-old boy to whom you have given a .22 revolver to go shoot cans at a rural dump or out at the country home of a friend. You, yourself, can be criminally prosecuted for giving him the gun," explained Puckett about his concern of enforcement of existing laws. The NRA does not want any minors to possess a firearm of any kind unless supervised by an adult at all times. LaPierre said adults must be held accountable for minors who gain access to firearms. "So we support mandatory penalties for juvenile criminals caught carrying guns. But out of the thousands of these armed, teen thugs, we believe the Clinton Justice Department should have prosecuted more than just 3 in 1997 and 8 in 1998. That's not zero tolerance," said LaPierre. Puckett said such a policy will make a young boy a felon if he is left alone with a rifle while out hunting with his father and the father will also become a criminal. Most states require a concealed carry permit for those who wish to have a firearm with them in public. This is another area where the NRA and the coalition differ in opinion. "We believe that a lawful, properly-permitted citizen who chooses to carry a concealed firearm not only deserves that right but is a deterrent to crime. We support the right to carry because it has helped cut crime rates in all 31 states that have adopted it ... with almost no abuse of any kind by the lawful citizens who took the courses, submitted to the background checks, passed the tests and became part of a proud citizens movement that's making America a safer place to live. The truth is, very few actually choose to carry a gun -- but the bad guys don't know which few they are," explained LaPierre. "So much for the Second Amendment. A right that requires getting a permit to exercise isn't a right, its a privilege granted by the government and revocable by the government," criticized Puckett. The group has also called for the repeal of "all laws which infringe upon the right of Americans to freely carry arms in defense of self, family, and country." - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- David M. Bresnahan is an investigative journalist for WorldNetDaily.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #327 *************************