From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #373 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Saturday, August 5 2000 Volume 02 : Number 373 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 00:07:44 -0500 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Nightmare: Gore/Clinton Ticket (fwd) At 10:00 PM 08/02/2000 -0600, Bill Vance wrote: > >Date: Wed, 2 Aug 00 20:39:18 PST >From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) >Subject: Nightmare: Gore/Clinton Ticket (fwd) > >On Aug 2, Bard wrote: > >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 5:43 PM >Subject: [~B_R_F~] Nightmare on Pennsylvania Avenue > >> http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/08/columns/fl.dorf.goreclinton.08.01/ >> >> WHY THE CONSTITUTION PERMITS A GORE-CLINTON TICKET >> >> -- Leading in most polls, Texas Gov. >> George W. Bush had the luxury of allowing >> political calculations to take a back seat in his >> choice of a running mate. Cheney himself might cause Constitutional problems. The 12th amendment states that electors may not vote for both VP and President from the same state as themselves. The word used is "inhabitant", not resident nor citizen, of the same state as themselves. Cheney had been living in Texas, where he is/was CEO of Haliburton, until a couple of weeks ago, when he registered to vote in Wyoming, which is true "home" state, in the sense of being where he grew up, alhtough having been born and attended school for several years in my hometown Lincoln, Nebraska. Desperate Democratic demogoges might argue, and maybe even successfully, that he is actually an inhabitant of Texas, regardless of maintaining an alternate domicile in Wyoming. Now wouldn't that be jolley. Bush-Cheney win the election, but the votes of the Texas electors for one or the other, probably Cheney, are thrown out, and that is enough to elect the Demo VP canidate, which as this message argues might be Bill Clinton!. That would surely consign the VP's office to its sometime status as not worth of bucket of warm spit (or other warm, possibly golden, bodily fluid that might fill a bucket). Unless of course the same sort of unfortunate incident should occure to Bush as occurred to Ron Brown, Vince Foster and an unknown number of others, in which case we'd have Clinton again, who would then appoint Gore, or maybe Hillary! as VP. Hillary would of course be an "inhabitent" of New York. >> Who would be a better choice than the most >> charismatic and skillful politician of his generation, >> William Jefferson Clinton? >> President Clinton is certainly ineligible to be elected >> to another presidential term, >> based on the 22nd Amendment. Some might infer from the >> 12th Amendment that >> he is therefore also ineligible to be elected to a vice- >> presidential term. >> >> Constitution permits a Clinton vice-presidency >> >> But these naysayers would be wrong. The Constitution >> permits Clinton to be >>... >> The 12th Amendment would allow a Clinton vice- >> presidency. Its language only >> bars from the vice-presidency those persons who are >> "ineligible to the office" of >> President. Clinton is not ineligible to the office of >> president, however. He is only >> disqualified (by the 22nd Amendment) from being elected >> to that office. >> >> This is no mere semantic distinction. Article II of the > >> The 22nd Amendment states: "No person shall be elected >> to the office of the >> President more than twice, and no person [who has served >> more than half a >> term] shall be elected to the office of the president >> more than once." >> >> The language is quite clear. It places no limits >> whatsoever on how many terms >> someone may serve as president, only how many times he >> can be elected. >> >> In other words, the 22nd Amendment does not set >> conditions on what the 12th >> Amendment calls eligibility to the office of president. >> Anyone who is born here >> and has lived here for 14 years becomes eligible to be >> president on his or her >> 35th birthday and is then so eligible forever. >> >> Thus, if. Clinton were to be elected vice president and >> ascend to the presidency >> based on, for example, Gore's resignation, then nothing >> unconstitutional would >> have occurred. Clinton would have been elected to the >> presidency only twice >> though he would serve as president thrice. Under the >> 22nd Amendment, that is >> perfectly permissible. >> >> The spirit of the 22nd Amendment >> >> Nonetheless, it could be argued that permitting Clinton >> to run for, and be elected >> to the office of, vice president violates the spirit if >> not the letter of the 22nd >> Amendment. >> >> The argument is a weak one, however. The 22nd Amendment >> was adopted in >> part simply to formalize the tradition unbroken until >> FDR that American >> presidents should not seek a third term. >> >> It was also a reaction to the growth in the power of the >> president in the 20th >> Century. But in seeking the vice-presidency, a job in >> John Nance Garner's >> unforgettable phrase, "not worth a bucket of warm spit," >> Clinton would hardly >> be bidding for dictatorial powers. >> George W. Bush proudly calls himself a "strict >> constructionist" who hews to the >> letter of the Constitution. And the exegesis of the 22nd >> Amendment that I have >> provided here is exactly the sort of "textualism" that >> Bush's judicial heroes >> Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas routinely applaud. The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 07:32:50 -0500 From: larry ball Subject: Seven-Eleven Seven - Eleven stores would be a good target for a national boycott. They do not believe in the unalienable right of man to protect his own life. Read the following: Store fires worker who stopped robbery MARTINSBURG, W.Va. -Antonio Feliciano, a 7-Eleven employee who foiled a robbery by wrestling a sawed-off rifle from a wouldbe assailant, was fired for breaking the store's rule on robberies that says: Just hand over the cash. Feliciano said the company rule wasn't his primary concern when he grabbed the armed assailant. "I just wanted to be sure that I was coming home that night," he said. Company officials said they fired Feliciano on Monday to ernphasize the policy Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 00 20:46:14 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Maadi trial - GOA support (fwd) On Aug 3, Bruce Chesley wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I submit this as further evidence that the war for the 2A has been lost. Bruce Chesley Truth is a terrible cross to bear. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered.". Thomas Paine Treason for $$$: ccrkba, jpfo, leaa, nra, saf. - --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "M.O.M." Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 14:34:24 -0600 From: St. C.O. Ron Gaydosh Re: G.O.A. Membership As you all know I have been in contact with Robert Stewart from the Maadi Griffin Co. for some time now. Most of you know that Bob was raided when Brian Shimkus and myself were out to Bob's home. The A.T.F. and a flip flopping Judge has put Bob out of the business of building and selling 50 cal. rifle kits. Bob has a up coming trial that Gun Owners has promised to help out with. They have Lawyers and an ex Agent that wrote the wording to the law that the A.T.F. is using to take Bob down. At first they were saying that they were backing Bob and the Agent was going to go in and testify that the wording has been changed and that it was never intended to be used the way they are using it now. G.O.A. has since just kinda faded out of the picture' when Bob and the 2nd. amendment needs them the most. We can not afford to loose this court battle. It is a direct attack on our 2nd Amendment that we will be regretting loosing for the rest of our lives. I have called G.O.A. and demanded that Larry Pratt keep his word and help with Bob's defence. I think that he could use some of our membership money to defend the 2nd. amendment through keeping his word to Bob and to us to defend the 2nd. Amendment. I have told him that if he did not make a stand for our gun rights that I would be withdrawing my membership and support of G.O.A. and that I would ask all Michigan Militia Members to do the same. Please everyone call G.O.A. and demand that they use some of our money to help save our 2nd. Amendment and Bob Stewart, like he stated he would at the beginning of this attack. I told Mr. Pratt that I would hold off on asking you all to drop your membership to G.O.A. for a week, that will end on the 9th. of July. Until then I am asking that you all call Gun Owners and tell them that they have until the 9th. to make a decision to help out. Gun Owners Ph.# is: 888-886-4867 and is a toll free number. Please call right away. God Bless All Ron Gaydosh [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 00 17:19:22 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: 'Scouts' & 'Gay-Gene' (fwd) On Aug 4, House, David Alan wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The United States Supreme Court ruled on June 26 that the Boy Scouts of America will not be forced to accept homosexuals, a practice which is in direct violation of their constitution. However, homosexuals will not rest until the Boy Scouts bend to their pressure. On July 19 liberal Representative Lynn Woosley (D-CA) introduced the "Scouting for All Act, " H.R. 4892, seeking to revoke the Federal Charter that was granted to the Boy Scouts of America in 1916. Six other representatives have become cosponsors of the bill, they include: Stark (D-CA), Lee (D-CA), McKinney (D-GA), Nadler (D-NY), Velazquez (D-NY), and Lewis (D-GA). Woolsey lists the following "findings" in Section 2 of H.R. 4892 to justify her attempt to remove the Boy Scout's charter : *Federal Charters are prestigious distinctions awarded to organizations with a patriotic, charitable, or educational purpose. *Although intended as a honorific title, a Federal charter implies Government support for such organizations. *In 1916, the Federal Government granted a Federal charter to the Boy Scouts of America. *Although the Boy Scouts of America promotes the social and civic development of young boys through mentoring, it also sets an example of intolerance through its discriminatory policy to exclude homosexuals. *Federal support for the Boy Scouts of America indirectly supports the organizations policy to exclude homosexuals. *A policy of excluding homosexuals is contradictory to the Federal Government's support for diversity and tolerance and should not be condoned as patriotic, charitable, or educational. In addition to hostile legislation, the Boy Scouts face persecution from various religious and community organizations. The Episcopalian General Convention announced recently that all churches that sponsor Boy Scout troops must include homosexuals. The church urged its leaders to "inform" troops meeting in their buildings "that homosexuals are children of God who have a full and equal claim with all other persons upon the love, acceptance, and pastoral concern and care of the church," as quoted by church law. The United Way of Southeastern New England gave the Boy Scout Council 5 months to relinquish its ban on homosexuals or the agency will revoke their $70,000 in contributions to the Scouts. Please keep the Boy Scouts in Prayer as they stand firm in holding to their beliefs. Tuesday, August 1, "The Washington Times" reported Edward Stein, a homosexual law professor from New York, is initiating a movement that would call for homosexuals to abandon the "gay gene" theory. Stein argues that homosexuality is a decision rather than a matter of sexual origins, "linking human rights to some scientific theory as yet completely unproven is risky. All that you'll get with the gene theory is the right with things you don't choose, but homosexuals want things they do choose: to be openly gay and hold a job and have same-sex 'marriages.'" An April 1999 article in the New York Times cites a study that cast doubt on the existence of a homosexual gene because numerous studies could not be replicated. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 00 17:21:08 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [newsucanuse] VIN -- new Gatto book (fwd) On Aug 4, SlickEditor@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Could they really have done it on purpose? In a mere three centuries, America has written some of the most glowing chapters in the long history of man's struggle for freedom. So how did we become -- in the space of only a few generations -- a nation of pathetic bed-wetters, mewling "Oh, please don't trust me and my neighbor to save for our own retirements; we might blow it" -- "Oh, please don't trust me and my neighbor to own military-style weapons; we'd probably shoot each other." John Taylor Gatto, a former New York state (public) Teacher of the Year, thinks he's found the answer: the government schools. Gatto's thesis is one of those "big ideas" that takes a little time to wrap the mind around. The public schools cannot be reformed because they're not failing, he argues. They're succeeding beyond all expectations at precisely what they're supposed to be -- not only a huge make-work jobs program, but also the incubators of a dependent class of conscienceless sociopaths, their emotional development purposely stunted, a generation (by now two or three) with little knowledge of "the narrative of American history connecting the arguments of the founding fathers to historical events, defining what makes Americans different from others besides wealth." Oblivious to that heritage, our young people instead sulk about, whining for the modern Morlocks of our welfare/police state to do a better job feeding them and keeping them entertained. Gatto started to develop this thesis in his slim but estimable 1992 volume "Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling." Now he's returned with a massive and far better-developed follow-up, the 400-page "Underground History of American Education," subtitled "A Schoolteacher's Intimate Investigation Into the Problem of Modern Schooling" ($34 postpaid, Oxford Village Press, 725 McDonough Road, Oxford, N.Y. 13830.) Gatto's historical research tells him none of this is an accident -- public school pioneers like Horace Mann found the regimented system they were looking for when they visited Prussia in the 1840s, importing wholesale a scheme to tame and regiment what they saw as America's dangerously anarchist new immigrant working class, training the young of this underclass to report to a central government facility as soon as they were old enough to use the latrine, there to be trained to all hold identical shallow, memorized opinions and to march around to the sound of bells. Yes, some basic literacy and numeracy would be necessary for them to fill their intended roles in the army and in the factories ... but not too much, and certainly not the kind of critical and analytic skills which might lead them to question their new bosses. "We want one class to have a liberal education," Gatto finds Woodrow Wilson telling a group of businessmen shortly before the First World War. "We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forgo the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks." Gatto challenges the whole underlying notion that the kind of academic disciplines taught in our schools are so complicated that they have to be divvied up into small mouth-sized bits and doled out over a period of years on a careful scientific schedule arranged by highly-trained experts. Teachers should be adults over 40, Gatto argues, "people who've proven themselves at life by bearing its pain like free spirits. ... No one who hasn't known grief, challenge, success, failure, or sadness should be allowed anywhere near kids. ... "Have you noticed nobody talks to children in schools? I mean nobody. All verbal exchanges in school are instrumental. Person-to-person stuff is contrary to policy. That's why popular teachers are disliked or fired. They talk to kids. It's unacceptable." Americans are now trained to believe that no child is capable of assuming any responsibility till he or she is 18 or 21 -- and that even adults need a huge and permanent government "safety net" to protect them from their own childlike incompetence. Yet Gatto reminds us of a young American who left school at an early age because he was judged "feeble-minded." Just before turning 12 he talked his mother into letting him go to work full time as an apprentice on the railroad, "a permission she gave which would put her in jail right now," in Gatto's phrase. Claiming some old type from a printer who was about to throw it away, the young lad begged a corner in the baggage car in which to set up a little four-page newspaper about the lives of the passengers and what could be seen from the train's window. At age 12 he had 500 subscribers, earning more than his former schoolteachers. "When the Civil War broke out, the newspaper become a goldmine. ... He sold the war to crowds at the various stops. 'The Grand Trunk Herald' sold as many as 1,000 extra copies after a battle," amassing the young man a handsome stake for his next venture. If he tried that at age 12 today, everyone involved would be arrested and put on trial for exploitation of "child labor" ... and we would likely never have heard of the young man who got the early start in question, Thomas Edison. # # # How does this giant jobs program known as "public schooling" work? Gatto tells the pathetic story of little Benson, Vermont, where citizens were happy with the single school that served their 137 schoolchildren. But the state bureaucracy wasn't happy. Oh no. The state condemned the old school for lack of wheelchair ramps "and other features nobody ever considered an essential part of education before." A massively expensive new school was mandated, and into this new school the education bureaucracy piled a new non-teaching superintend, a new non-teaching assistant superintendent, a new non-teaching principal, a new non-teaching assistant principal, a new full-time nurse, a new full-time guidance counselor, a new full-time librarian, 11 full-time teachers where eight would have sufficed -- in all, a new cadre of poobahs and potentates costing an additional $250,000 per year -- or $2,000 per kid. Property taxes in the little town went up 40 percent in one year, "quite a shock to local homeowners just hanging on by their fingernails." In nearby Walden, a town happily getting along with four 19th-century one-room schoolhouses for its 120 kids -- with four teachers and no administrators -- Gatto visited and found the story was the same. Building condemned, and then the administrators started to arrive, like clowns piling out of that little car at the circus. "Is there a soul who believes Benson's kids are better served in their new school with its mercenary army than Walden's 120 were in four rooms with four teachers?" Gatto asks. "What happened at Benson -- the use of forced schooling to impose career ladders of unnecessary work on a poor community -- has happened all over North America. School is a jobs project for a large class of people it would be difficult to find employment for otherwise. Forcible redistribution of income to others to provide work for pedagogues and for a support staff larger than the actual teaching corps is a pyramid scheme run at the expense of the children. The more 'make-work' has to be found for school employees, the worse for kids because their own enterprise is stifled by constant professional tinkering in order to justify this employment." Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it. "By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own? "By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago." And Mr. Gatto knows why. # # # "During World War Two, American public schools massively converted to non-phonetic ways of teaching reading," Gatto explains. "According to the justice department, 80 percent of the incarcerated violent criminal population is illiterate or nearly so (as are 67 percent of all criminals locked up.) There seems to be a direct connection between the humiliation poor readers experience and the life of angry criminals. As reading ability plummeted in America after World War Two, crime soared, so did out-of-wedlock births, which doubled in the 1950s and doubled again in the '60s when bizarre violence for the first time became commonplace in daily life. "When literacy was first abandoned as a primary goal by schools, white people were in a better position than black people because they inherited a 300-year-old American tradition of learning to read at home by matching spoken sounds with letters, thus home assistance was able to correct the deficiencies of dumbed-down schools for whites. But black people had been forbidden to learn to read during slavery, and as late as 1930 only averaged three to four years of schooling, so they were helpless when teachers suddenly stopped teaching children to read; they had no fall-back position." In 1882, Gatto reminds us, fifth graders read in their "Appleton School Reader" the original prose of such authors as William Shakespeare, Henry Thoreau, George Washington, Sir Walter Scott, Mark Twain, Benjamin Franklin, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Daniel Webster, Lewis Carroll, Thomas Jefferson, and Ralph Waldo Emerson. In 1995, a student teacher of fifth graders in Minneapolis wrote to the local newspaper: "I was told children are not to be expected to spell the following words correctly: back, big, call, came, can, day, did, dog, down, get, good, if, in, is, it, have, he, home, like, little, man, morning, mother, my, night, off, out, over, people, play, ran, said, saw, she, some, soon, their, them, there, time, two, too, up, us, very, water, we, went, where, when, will, would, etc. Is this nuts?" Again, all this was no accident. Gatto finds the 1888 "Report of the Senate Committee on Education" asserting "We believe that education is one of the principal causes of discontent of late years manifesting itself among the laboring classes. ..." Within a few generations, working from such goals as "Destruction of the narrative of American history connecting the arguments of the founding fathers to historical events ..."; "radical dilution of the academic content of formal curriculum which familiarized students with serious literature, philosophy, theology, etc. -- having the effect of curtailing any serious inquiries into economics, politics or religion"; "enlargement of the school day and year to blot up outside opportunities to acquire useful knowledge leading to independent livelihoods ..."; and "relentless low-level hostility against religious interpretations of meaning," the public schools had taken care of that. Mr. Gatto's book rambles. It took him an entire career to reach these counterintuitive conclusions ("They can't have done it all on purpose") and it shows. Dipping into these pages is like allowing a still-hearty old man to take you on a walk through his home town, pointing out where the old barns used to stand. It swings from historical analysis to personal anecdote and reminiscence. The furthest thing from the kind of forbidding "rigorous" tomes generated by those seeking Ph.Ds in education, it invites the interested reader to sink down into it like a comfortable easy chair, to be stunned and amazed in turn by a 150-year history of the fully conscious and willful campaign to turn all but the offspring of the big banking and corporate families who would attend Hotchkiss, Choate, Kent and Groton (the last three endowed by the Mellons, the DuPonts, and J.P Morgan -- the first by the machine gun widow) into -- well, malleable morons. Mr. Gatto's books -- he promises his next will be "How to Get an Education in Spite of School" are a wonder and a delight. It's only too bad they're true. Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available at $24.95 postpaid by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right." -- Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926) "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken * * * - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - If you have subscribed to vinsends@ezlink.com and you wish to unsubscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your OLD address, including the word "unsubscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 09:44:33 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: 'Scouts' & 'Gay-Gene' (fwd) This is a fine example of how unlimited gov causes problems in society. Where is the Constitutional grant of power for a "Federal Charter"? The fedgov has the responsibility of defending the nation, conducting a census, ... It does not, and should not, have any power to affect education, marriage, corporations, ... If the gov was back in the Constitutional bottle, all of our lives would be a lot simpler, and we could send our kids to any 'almsot the Boy Scouts" troup we wished. There is no need for anyone to get excited about this kind of stuff. There have always been homosexuals, there will always be homosexuals, and these homosexuals always have been and most likely always will have the full range of human flaws. That is, they are fully human, and enjoy the rights recognized by our Constitution. Beyond that, whether you associate with them, or actively discriminate against them in your social group (or blacks or jews or ...) should be a matter of indifference to the Fed and State govs. My wife and son are Jewish. History of the Jews shows they had far worse problems under bad gov than under good govs. However serious the social discrimination, Jews have always had a rich social life, good family values, and often economic success. Ditto for Chinese, blacks in the US from the West Indes, blacks in the US whose ancestors were freed before the Civil War, ... Ditto for homosexuals in almost every culture. Discrimination may be annoying, stupid, ..., but it isn't fatal to a group or a serious bar to a good life. (It is also declining in all forms, mainly because it is economically inefficient. One more of the benefits of an efficient corporate economy.) ROC needs to focus on the real issue: putting our fed and state govs back into the Constitutioanl bottle. Lew Glendenning > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 6:19 PM > To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > Subject: 'Scouts' & 'Gay-Gene' (fwd) > > > On Aug 4, House, David Alan wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > --------------------] > > The United States Supreme Court ruled on June 26 that the Boy Scouts of > America will not be forced to accept homosexuals, a practice which is in > direct violation of their constitution. However, homosexuals > will not rest > until the Boy Scouts bend to their pressure. On July 19 liberal > Representative Lynn Woosley (D-CA) introduced the "Scouting for All Act, " > H.R. 4892, seeking to revoke the Federal Charter that was granted > to the Boy > Scouts of America in 1916. Six other representatives have become > cosponsors > of the bill, they include: Stark (D-CA), Lee (D-CA), McKinney > (D-GA), Nadler > (D-NY), Velazquez (D-NY), and Lewis (D-GA). Woolsey lists the following > "findings" in Section 2 of H.R. 4892 to justify her attempt to remove the > Boy Scout's charter : > > *Federal Charters are prestigious distinctions awarded to > organizations with > a patriotic, charitable, or educational purpose. > > *Although intended as a honorific title, a Federal charter implies > Government support for such organizations. > > *In 1916, the Federal Government granted a Federal charter to the > Boy Scouts > of America. > > *Although the Boy Scouts of America promotes the social and civic > development of young boys through mentoring, it also sets an example of > intolerance through its discriminatory policy to exclude homosexuals. > > *Federal support for the Boy Scouts of America indirectly supports the > organizations policy to exclude homosexuals. > > *A policy of excluding homosexuals is contradictory to the Federal > Government's support for diversity and tolerance and should not > be condoned > as patriotic, charitable, or educational. > > In addition to hostile legislation, the Boy Scouts face persecution from > various religious and community organizations. The Episcopalian General > Convention announced recently that all churches that sponsor Boy Scout > troops must include homosexuals. The church urged its leaders to "inform" > troops meeting in their buildings "that homosexuals are children > of God who > have a full and equal claim with all other persons upon the love, > acceptance, and pastoral concern and care of the church," as quoted by > church law. The United Way of Southeastern New England gave the Boy Scout > Council 5 months to relinquish its ban on homosexuals or the agency will > revoke their $70,000 in contributions to the Scouts. Please keep the Boy > Scouts in Prayer as they stand firm in holding to their beliefs. > > > > Tuesday, August 1, "The Washington Times" reported Edward Stein, a > homosexual law professor from New York, is initiating a movement > that would > call for > homosexuals to abandon the "gay gene" theory. Stein argues that > homosexuality is a decision rather than a matter of sexual > origins, "linking > human rights to some scientific theory as yet completely unproven > is risky. > All that you'll get with the gene theory is the right with things > you don't > choose, but homosexuals want things they do choose: to be openly gay and > hold a job and have same-sex 'marriages.'" An April 1999 article > in the New > York Times cites a study that cast doubt on the existence of a homosexual > gene because numerous studies could not be replicated. > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message > ------------------------] > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 00 10:30:39 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Amish Beware - Land Grab in Ohio (fwd) On Aug 5, saba22@webtv.net wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Wait till they get to Pennsyvania......Amish Beware - if this isn't religious persecution to take farms away that have been in some of these families for a century maybe? See what they have done to American farmers in mid-west - told to get into another business - grabbing farms all over the USA - foreclosures as Kissingers plan to corner market on food nearly completes full cycle with the seedless crops? Someday America will wake up too late - when the Amrican Farmer no longer puts food on their table, and we eat the crumbs from the table of the likes of a Kissinger - maybe eyes will open? Henry Kissinger was at the Republican Convention pretty much ignored - he looked like a nasty, mean spirited evil man and on his face, you could read the contempt he had for this convention.......and believe me, most of the people at the convention had more than just contempt for this isolated monster, KGB Agent Code Name Bor. The present govenor of Ohio is Robert Taft - be interesting to see if he takes stand on this one. But then, I always remember the Taft station in Columbus, Ohio..........two congressmen used to take this plane back to Columbus on certain weekends and one year during holiday season, it crashed......Channel 6 Taft Station had a special bulletin.....they announced "nobody important was aboard" for the two congressmen had laid over that weekend. Everybody else was killed, of course - "nobody important".......will this be the attitude of this governor when the land grabbers come around? Nobody important here, just a few Amish Farmers, etc. Might Add also, there is oil in Ohio right underneath the State Capitol for instance - State Geologist attempted to lie about this back in 1985......at 150 feet water tasted like oil..... So what is the real reason for these land grabs? Feds are way out of line here and I hope the Amish still pack a pitchfork......recently Amish have been criticized by newspapers and one Amish kid was drunk.....old trick, get to parents through the kids? Stories how Amish kids want out of that kind of life, etc., and next hing like Waco - - child abuse to be filed? Isn't this what the feds did to the Indians Saba An Internet Publication for Real Americans=20 =20 Saturday, August 5, 2000 | 12:05 AM=20 The Grim Reaper Convoy J. Zane Walley - Posted: 08.04.00 Farmers, Ranchers, Loggers and Miners Unite=20 To Protest a Extensive U.S. Fish And Wildlife Service Land Grab In Ohio Cowboy hats, the flat hats of the Amish and Mennonites, the "seed store caps" of farmers, hard- hats of miners and loggers along with the working people that wear them will soon join in a massive private property rights assembly on September 2 in London, Ohio. At the center of the protest is the largest private land taking thus far attempted by the U.S Fish and Wildlife Service. 500 farmers, many of them Amish and Mennonite, are being forced from their land along the Darby Creeks in central Ohio to make room for a wildlife refuge. Recently thousands of shovels had been donated to the Jarbidge Shovel Brigade, a Nevada public land use activist group, to protest the closing of National Forest roads.=20 The shovels were used to excavate the roadblocks built by the U. S. Forest Service that kept the public from favored camping and fishing areas. Those shovels are getting a second shot at symbolically standing for property rights. They'll be traveling to Ohio in a convoy led by the "Grim Reaper," a semi-trailer painted with a listing of sawmills closed since 1990 and showing the number of jobs lost. The convoy will leave from Elko, Nevada on Monday,=20 August 28 and will be joined by scores of people along the way who are concerned about government land grabs throughout the entire United States. One of the rally organizers, J. Zane Walley of the New Mexico based Paragon Foundation stated, "Federal land and environment agencies are in a private land grabbing frenzy. Citizens are being forced from their land by environmental regulatory takings across all America. This rally gives powerful voice to citizens who believe that they have a right to own and control their property and destiny. We urge folks from all walks of life to travel with the Grim Reaper or come to Ohio and let the government know how they feel about private property rights. Grab a shovel and come on!" Several prominent speakers including Idaho Congresswoman Helen Chenoweth Hage, Dr. Floy Lily of the University of Texas, Henry Lamb of Eco-logic, and several Congressmen are scheduled to speak out against federal land grabs. . For information on the Grim Reaper Convoy and the rally, call (406) 837-6929. Email address for information: clardon@digisys.net or JSmit10695@aol.com. Visit the Darby website at www.nodarbyrefuge.org=20 E-mail Your Comments...E-mail to a Friend=20 Webmasters @ SierraTimes.com =A0 =A0 Sierra Times.com will Provide Exclusive Coverage of this Event Sierra Times Front Page Sierra Times Editorials =A0=20 Articles & Editorials We receive numerous requests to forward Sierra Times articles and editorials to other news outlets, or to publish them on websites. Permission granted, as long as you include the name of our site, the author, and our URL: www.SierraTimes.com All Sierra Times news reports, and all editorials are =A9 2000 SierraTimes.com (unless otherwise noted) SierraTimes.com Publishing & Communication Associates - A Subsidiary of J.J. Johnson Enterprises, Inc. 1970 N. Leslie Suite 204 Pahrump, NV 89060 Office: 775.727.0627 Fax: 413.581.5806 A Nevada Corporation =A9 2000 SierraTimes.com - All rights ReservedTo The TOP News & Opinion: Home -Digest - Editorials - Money - Nuggets - Movie Reviews -Breaking News -Dixie Interaction : Mailbag - Chat Room - Message Board - Subscribe - Help Desk - Health - Radio Shop& Browse: Classifieds - Advertising - Rebel Shack - Cracking The Liberty Bell An Internet Publication for Real Americans =A0=20 A. Saba=20=20 Dare To Call It Conspiracy [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #373 *************************