From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #402 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Tuesday, November 21 2000 Volume 02 : Number 402 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 00 17:22:06 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Those Missing Military Ballots........FUBAR (fwd) On Nov 15, BOBWORN@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] BOB'S NOTE: BACK IN THE "GOOD OLE DAYS" WHEN I WAS FLYING IN SAC (Strategic Air Command) WE HAD A SAYING: "NOTHING IS TOO GOOD FOR THE MILITARY MEN - AND THAT'S USUALLY WHAT THEY GOT - NOTHING". WHAT A MESS.....................................Bob (WITH A SARCASTIC GRIN) http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/20001115_xex_navy_flying_.shtml" Navy flying home 3,000 lost ballots Ship captain: 'A majority of the pilots aboard are registered voters in Florida' =A9 2000 WorldNetDaily.com At least one major instance of missing overseas military ballots -- involving some 3,000 absentee votes -- appears to be on its way=20 to resolution. WorldNetDaily reported yesterday that a source on the USS=20 Tarawa, a U.S. Navy destroyer near Yemen, said that=20 "thousands" of absentee ballots were languishing onboard. The Navy has now confirmed bundles of overseas ballots left behind -- not on one, but three ships in the Persian Gulf region. According to=20 a New York Post account, Cmdr. Greg Smith, a Navy spokesman,=20 said the ballots of some 3,000 sailors and Marines on the USS=20 Tarawa, USS Deleuth and USS Anchorage would be flown back=20 to the United States "expeditiously." Before the discovery of missing Navy ballots, Defense Department spokesman Kenneth Bacon and Navy Lt. Dave Gai had both criticized WorldNetDaily -- Bacon publicly at a press briefing -- for its reporting on this issue. Bacon referred to WND's initial story as "ludicrous" for reporting that some servicemen and women suspect the Clinton administration may have somehow purposely delayed sending absentee ballots to military personnel overseas because most historically vote Republican. Gai, the Pentagon spokesman quote= d in two of WND's stories, had previously said he was "not aware of any large-scale problems." Nevertheless, the newssite's reports caught the attention of Rep. Joe Scarborough, R-Fla., who is now calling for a congressional investigation into the issue. In yesterday's WND report, Oregonian Judy Krutsinger, whose brother-in-law i= s stationed onboard the Tarawa, said that although the Pentagon had reportedly contacted Florida election officials to inform them that mail from all area warships had been picked up Nov. 7, her relative aboard the Tarawa denied=20 that. "We e-mailed [him] aboard ship about that. ... [H]e e-mailed back saying[the mailbags] are still onboard," Krutsinger told WorldNetDaily. She said the mail was contained in orange bags on 17 pallets and that "ballots were not separated from regular mail, as they should have been." A United Press International account reported comments from a Marine Corps captain from the Tarawa who helped evacuate the dead and injured from the USS Cole after it was attacked by terrorists on Oct. 12. Capt. Van P. Brinson, who did not receive his absentee ballot, wrote in a Nov. 8 e-mail: "I cannot speak for the remainder of the crew of the Tarawa, but I do know that the majority of the Marines and sailors that I have spoke= n with are in the same boat. What is distressing about the situation," he added, "is that a majority of the pilots aboard are registered voters in=20 Florida." Florida law requires that overseas ballots be postmarked by Election Day, and Friday midnight is the deadline for the state's 67 counties to receive them. Now that the large cache of ballots has been found, "all we're trying to do is see if there's a way to get the mail there," Smith said in the Post story= . Smith explained that the reason the shipboard mail was forgotten was because the three West Coast-based ships were preoccupied assisting the stricken Col= e after it was bombed last month. Once someone realized that the mail contained time-sensitive ballots -- whos= e importance is now increased dramatically because of the historically close race -- the Navy agreed to fly the ballots to the U.S. post haste. Meanwhile, stateside, the U.S. Postal Service says it is fast-tracking military overseas ballots destined for Florida -- promising to get them to the 67 county election departments the same day they arrive in the U.S., the Post reported. The ballots are being processed by postal employees at the Air Mail Center near Miami International Airport, according to an Associated Press report, where all overseas military mail sent to the United States arrives. Ballots destined for South Florida counties are being driven to the appropriate post offices for same-day delivery, while those earmarked for north and central Florida counties are flown to regional mail centers, then forwarded to the local post office for delivery to election officials. According to the AP story, as of Monday the postal service had delivered 446 military overseas ballots to Florida since Nov. 8. An unofficial Associated Press survey of 64 of Florida's 67 election supervisors showed that more tha= n 19,300 overseas ballots had been mailed from the state. While over 10,000 ha= d been returned -- and most of those already counted -- officials could not sa= y how many ballots were still outstanding. Many service personnel and their families have complained to WorldNetDaily that their ballots were sent to them by fourth class "bulk mail" -- which ca= n delay delivery by a month or more -- instead of first class. Many others claim they never received their ballots at all. For those stationed on the Cole, Deleuth and Anchorage, at least, their vote= s seem to be on their way home. "We understand the urgency of this situation and realize that the entire presidential election could rest on these ballots," said postal service spokeswoman Enola C. Rice yesterday, said the AP report. Read Joseph Farah's column today, "Those missing military ballots." [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 00 19:09:45 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] IBT (fwd) On Nov 15, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Subject: GOD IS MOVING IN INDIANAPOLIS!! Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:32:56 -0600 From: Freedom Page To: jhardin@mindspring.com Friends, This is a follow up on the last article. Jim Hardin The Freedom Page http://www.freedompage.ws To receive Freedom Page mail, put "Subscribe" as subject to freedompage@mindspring.com To be removed, put "Remove" as subject. Alabama Committee To Get Us Out of the UN http://themustardseed.home.mindspring.com From: Allyson Smith From: "Bruce Evan Murch" Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 1:48 PM Subject: GOD IS MOVING IN INDIANAPOLIS!! Dear Friends, GOD IS MOVING HERE IN INDIANAPOLIS!! I am here at the Indianapolis Baptist Temple, which the Federal Marshals were supposed to seize yesterday at noon. They did not come, and gave a press conference yesterday afternoon saying that they wanted to wait for everyone to leave. NOBODY IS LEAVING!! There is a move of God happenening here. Preachers from around the country have arrived, ready to go to jail if necessary to STAND AGAINST THE STEALING OF A CHURCH by the federal government. At noon yesterday, amost 1,000 PEOPLE STOOD READY TO PASSIVELY WITNESS AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT'S TAKING OF A NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH!! Many of you know I left Beverly and my nine children at home to continue the witness at Planned Parenthood, while I came here to stand in defense of the Indianapolis Baptist Temple. THERE IS A MOVE OF GOD AFOOT HERE! People are beginning to come from all over the country to stand with IBT. CMA, the Christian Motorcyclist Association has riders coming in from all over, ministers and plain ole' Christian folk are headed here. The story broke last night on all four networks and CNN. Folks are beginning to call up the church and say they are coming. Colonel Bo Gritz, former Green Beret and negotiator in the federal seige at Ruby Ridge is here with us. I did his radio show with him yesterday morning from the platform of the church. He is committed to staying the course with us here. I have done many interviews while here, and the word is truly going out. The IRS has confirmed that this is the first time in American history that it has seized a church over a tax issue. But all taxes were paid to the IRS by the individual ministers of the IBT. They were owed NOTHING. NOW IS THE TIME TO STAND!! If we will not be willing to stand when the government is stealing a church, will we stand for anything?? PLEASE COME TO INDIANAPOLIS!! BE PART OF A NATIONAL WITNESS FOR CHRIST!! Bring a bedroll and your Bible and be prepared for a time of REVIVAL! You can call IBT for directions: (317) 787-0830 I have borrowed a cell phone and you can call me if you are seriously considering it, but have questions: (540)730-4427. PLEASE PRAY ABOUT COMING OUT HERE RIGHT AWAY!! You will be part of an exciting move of God and a NATIONAL PUBLIC WITNESS FOR CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH!! Please do not respond to this email directly. I have forwarded this to my wife, and she will not be able to answer your specific questions. Call me if you need to. I VIEW THIS AS IMPORTANT AS ANY OPERATION RESCUE THAT I'VE EVER DONE. This 50-year-old church has led thousands upon thousands of folks to a saving knowledge of Christ, as many as were called. Please help us stand with them NOW! PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR LISTS!! Your friend and servant of Christ, Rev. Bruce Evan Murch - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Interested in Constitutional Issues? Checkout The Freedom Page radio show audio tapes. Just click: http://freedompage.home.mindspring.com/store.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:08:05 -0600 From: larry ball Subject: [Fwd: [hilarious] Fwd: Algoreithm] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------762044857301A2115AFB635F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------762044857301A2115AFB635F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by pigeon (mbox lball) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.22 1998/04/11) Thu Nov 16 12:58:00 2000) X-From_: list-errors.700004454.0.702106604.004@boing.topica.com Thu Nov 16 12:50:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: from outmta013.topica.com (outmta013.topica.com [206.132.75.230]) by pigeon.inebraska.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA16514 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:50:26 -0600 (CST) To: "atlasfedup@topica.com" From: JFA Subject: [hilarious] Fwd: Algoreithm Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:49:47 -0800 Message-ID: <0.700004454.893912561-212058698-974400587@topica.com> Reply-To: atlasfedup@topica.com X-Topica-Loop: 700004454 Received: (qmail 24398 invoked by alias); 16 Nov 2000 18:46:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 24339 invoked by uid 0); 16 Nov 2000 18:46:07 -0000 Received: from relais.videotron.ca (HELO VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca) (mail@24.201.245.36) by inmta004.topica.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2000 18:46:07 -0000 Received: from terra ([24.200.129.208]) by VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G44S4P03.98L for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:46:01 -0500 X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 - --- Support our Sponsor ------------------------------------ GREAT DEALS FIND YOU - Deep discounts on travel, movers, new cars, insurance, mortgages, lots more! Tell us just what you want, we connect you with the best deals. New FREE service! http://click.topica.com/aaaaTiaVxjiAaVF8aea/Imandi - ------------------------------------------------------------ >From: Nilsphone@aol.com New word: Algoreithm Any method of repeated calculation performed until an priori desired result is produced. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== ___________________________________________________________ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics - --------------762044857301A2115AFB635F-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 00 15:27:58 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Roads (fwd) On Nov 17, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Instant Wilderness: When a Road is not a Road By Don Fife and Ralph Pray - Posted: 11.16.00 A strange thing is happening in Washington, D.C. these days. Roads are disappearing ... on paper! Old wagon roads, now dirt roads, considered by back country travelers for centuries to be the main thoroughfare from point to point anywhere in the western states, are being redefined as a "non-roads" or "ways," apparently in order to reclassify the surrounding land as "roadless" and therefore, eligible for Wilderness Study consideration. The Clinton-Gore administration is proposing closure of 400,000 miles of back country roads on 60,000,000 acres on national forest lands. Are these roadways "roads" or not? The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) published official maps for more than 80 years before the 1964 Wilderness Act. In 1964, five classes of roads were defined by the Survey . Their definition of a road in 1964 was what Congress intended when the Act used the terms "road" and "roadless." The five classes are: Class 1: primary highway, federal and state, Class 2: secondary highway, state and county, Class 3: light duty, paved or improved, Class 4: unimproved, unsurfaced, including track roads in back country, designated on maps by two parallel dashed lines, and Class 5: trails (single dashed line), roads passable only with a 4-wheel drive vehicle; also called Jeep trails. Today, for every mile of primary, secondary, and light duty roadway in the west, there are 50 to 100 miles of unimproved, track (Class 4) roads. This type of road is commonly a primitive road, frequently of just two tracks, but it is the principal type of road to most of the back country. Thousands of miles of Class 4 and 5 roads, once wagon roads, exist in the west and still see daily auto traffic. However, these "Back Country Freeways" are losing their centuries-old status in the name of wilderness protection. According to the 1964 Wilderness Act (PL88-577), no land can be designated a Wilderness Area unless it is "roadless." The Wilderness provision of the Federal Land Policy & Management Act (PL94-579) specified a Wilderness Area to be 5,000 acres or more and stipulated that it be "roadless," meaning that no "roads" could be contained within a 5,000-acre parcel, or it could not be considered for Wilderness. The Wilderness Act was passed to isolate a few mountain tops and a few million acres as "untrammeled, undeveloped, primeval federal land having no permanent improvements." Why have these roads be hidden or ignored? How has this been accomplished? In the 1970's, pro-wilderness bureaucrats and their radical environmental allies redefined the term "road" on federal lands to mean only those" graded or maintained by mechanical equipment on a regular basis." This conveniently made additional millions of acres filled with existing Class 4 roads, presently utilized by recreationists, miners, and ranchers susceptible to consideration for Wilderness withdrawal. This makes Class 3 roads the most primitive of remaining auto routes. The unimproved dirt roads and jeep trails are defined into oblivion. In effect, they have been "wiped off" the legislative map. Since these roads technicality do not exist, the land is now available for Wilderness designation. The BLM executed the new definition and arbitrarily redefined the word "road" carrying out the delusion that a road is not a road. The BLM stated that "within these inventoried areas there are frequently a number of ways and trails which no longer qualify as roads, although they are used as routes of travel." This description sounds very much like they are referring to USGS Class 4 and 5 roads. The BLM also said: "A way maintained solely by the passage of vehicles does not constitute a road." The Clinton-Gore administration has ordered the United States Forest Service (USFS) to apply a similar standard to roads in the National Forest System threatening to "manufacture" 60,000,000 more acres of roadless wilderness. Their definition has several problems. If a road is of such natural integrity that periodic grading is not necessary, can it be eliminated as a road by some planner just because it has not required mechanical maintenance? The BLM and USFS interpretations concerning back country roads are inaccurate and self-serving. Millions of acres of the western United States have been taken from multiple use and public access by the simple dirty trick of changing the meaning of a word. Class 4 and 5 roads are human developments, they are permanent improvements. Therefore, the land containing them cannot and should not be considered as Wilderness under the 5,000-acre roadless requirement. Apparently, a road is not a road if a government agency sees it as a candidate for roadless Wilderness. It all depends on what the meaning of the word "road" is. http://www.sierratimes.com/eddf111600.htm - -- **COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for nonprofit research and educational purposes only.[Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ] Join the Militia of Montana Email Alert List by writing to: militia@montana.com with "SUBSCRIBE" in the Subject Line! For the latest in great survival, preparedness and politically incorrect materials visit our Online Catalog at: http://www.militiaofmontana.com. Some great deals are to be had! Or, send $2.00 to the address below for a copy of our 40+ page Preparedness Catalog. Militia of Montana P.O. Box 1486, Noxon, MT 59853 Tel: 406-847-2735 n Fax: 406-847-2246 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 00 15:29:04 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Class action suit on behalf of all military personnel (fwd) On Nov 16, Charles C. Carter wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] PLEASE ROUTE ASAP! American Patriot Friends Network wrote: > NETWORK - NETWORK - NETWORK - NETWORK - NETWORK - NETWORK > http://www.apfn.org/apfn/apfncont.htm > > Class action suit on behalf of all military personnel > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb1075995 > > Thursday, 16-Nov-00 11:45:25 > > 24.14.28.77 writes: > > I am planning to file a class action suit on behalf of all military > personnel who requested ballots and did not receive them in time to vote - > or at all. I need sworn affidavits from all of those parties faxed to my > office after they have them notarized. The affidavits must simple state > that they requested the ballot through the proper channels and did not > receive it. A certified receipt from the post office would be helpful, > showing when it was ordered. Our fax is (210) 227-4229 and phone is > 210) 224-1923. I plan on filing this case Monday, so time is of the > essence. > > Sincerely, Philip E. Jones, Attorney at Law, > 126 East Main Plaza, San Antonio, Texas 78205 > > Philip E. Jones > philipejones@earthlink.net > ========================================================================== > Who Knocked-Up Them Chads? > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb1075995 > > Out of the ashes shall arise: Liberty > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb1075995 > > GOD IS MOVING IN INDIANAPOLIS!! > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb1075995 > > Traitors to the Constitution > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb1075995 > > ALL AMERICANS NEED TO READ THIS > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb1075995 > > Myth of the 'Will of the People' > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb1075995 > > THIS IS NOT FUNNY FOLKS > FLORIDA ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIO FREQUENCY MICROWAVE RADIATION RING > http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/flashradar/FLASH20204.html > > APFN IS SUPPORTED BY "FREE WILL" GIFT/DONATIONS > Without Justice, there is JUST_US! > http://www.apfn.org/apfn/contributions.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 00 09:48:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: US Code: no postage or postmark required for military ballots (fwd) On Nov 18, shezza@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Military ballots from overseas are not required, by the United States Code itself, to have a postmark. Yet this is the main argument for rejection by Democrat operatives in these counting venues. I am livid. They are willingly and knowingly breaking the LAW that no uniformed absentee voter can be deprived of their Constitutional rights in this fashion. (See below) Gore spits on the servicemen and women, and yet wants to be their commander in chief? ~Sheri - ----------------------------------------------------------------- >From the U.S. Code: TITLE 39 - POSTAL SERVICE PART IV - MAIL MATTER CHAPTER 34 - ARMED FORCES AND FREE POSTAGE Sec. 3406. Balloting materials under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (a) Balloting materials under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (individually or in bulk) - (1) shall be carried expeditiously and free of postage; TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 29 - ELECTIONS AND POLITICAL ACTIVITIES Sec. 608. Absent uniformed services voters and overseas voters (a) Whoever knowingly deprives or attempts to deprive any person of a right under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act shall be fined in accordance with this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 00 09:49:23 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Please Volunteer - It's important.......... (fwd) On Nov 18, BOBWORN@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: rdo156@airmail.net (DD) (Rick Donaldson) As you are probably aware, if the voting results in Florida stand as they are now, George W. Bush will be our next President. This will have catastrophic results on our vital, no, indispensable entertainment industry. Barbara Streisand, Martin Sheen, Susan Sarandon, Whoopie Goldberg, Alec Baldwin, among many others have sworn to leave the country if George W. Bush is elected President. And this is where YOU can help. We need volunteers to help pack and to load moving vans. We also need volunteers to provide airfare for these irreplaceable national treasures so they can relocate before they can change their minds. For the cost of a small SUV you can sponsor one of these celebrities and their unfortunate relocation. You will know that your efforts are helping when you receive postcards, letters and pictures from your chosen "refugee"as they learn to become a useful citizen in the third world country of their choosing. You will help, won't you. It costs so little, but it means so much. Call 1-800-deport-a-lib. Operators are standing by. Major Credit cards are accepted. Learn the Definition of Tyranny, then Resist with All your Might. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 00 21:50:58 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [other-side] Message from Colson to the FL Supreme Court (fwd) On Nov 18, Jim Moore wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] DO IT!!!!!!! - -----Original Message----- From: Tip Killingsworth [mailto:newlife@gdi.net] Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 1:13 PM To: other-side@egroups.com Subject: [other-side] Message from Colson to the FL Supreme Court I thought this "message" to the Supreme Court of Florida was an outstanding example of "what to do" in light of the naked attempt to steal this election using whatever means are possible. Tip URGENT MESSAGE >From Charles W. Colson Chairman, Prison Fellowship Ministries The Supreme Court of the State of Florida, seven judges, all appointed by Democratic governors, has, on its own motion, ordered Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State, not to carry out her statutory duty and announce on Saturday (Nov. 18, 2000) the winner of the presidential election in Florida and, thus, the winner of the presidential election. By what authority does the Court do this? With no appeal before it, the Court acted on its own motion. Editorials in Florida have strongly condemned the Court s action. To challenge a voting process in the courts is to attack the very cardinal principle of self-government. People have the right to elect their representatives without judicial interference. If after the process there are allegations of fraud or questions of statutory interpretation, then the Court could, in proper order, review it. What the Court in Florida has done is to inject itself into the very heart of the self-governing process. This is a case of judicial usurpation, the arrogance of power of the unelected, black-robed, new leaders of American society. It is the very thing that I, Robert Bork, Russell Hittinger, Hadley Arkes, Robert George, and Richard Neuhaus wrote about in the controversial "End of Democracy" series in the journal First Things in 1996. We warned then that judges would be usurping the right of the people to govern for themselves, which is at the very heart of the American political contract entered into by our Founders. This not only smacks of judicial usurpation, but it also smacks of partisanship. The media has been quick to point out that Secretary of State Katherine Harris, though she is acting on the advice of career officials and a Democratic law firm, is a partisan. She may well be, but the same media have said almost nothing about the seven judges. If we ve learned anything in recent years, it s that judges are as susceptible to public pressure as anyone else. If anyone wants to register their protest, they can call any or all of the following: Chief Justice Charles T. Wells 850-921-1096 Justice Leander J. Shaw, Jr. 850-488-0208 Justice Major B. Harding 850-414-7643 Justice R. Fred Lewis 850-488-0007 Justice Harry Lee Anstead 850-488-2281 Justice Barbara J. Pariente 850-488-8421 Justice Peggy A. Quince 850-922-5624 Not only are these judges interfering in the electoral process, they are giving further evidence that we have become a country of the courts, by the courts, and for the courts. I would not tell anyone what to do, but I ve made my phone calls. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- General e-mail for the Florida Supreme Court: supremecourt@flcourts.org For substantive contact with the Florida Supreme Court: Craig Waters for the Supreme Court, (850) 414-7641, s/c 994-7641, watersc@flcourts.org [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 00 16:51:06 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Pennsylvania Kidnapping (fwd) On Nov 21, Gritrid@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Message: 2 Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 16:15:31 -0800 From: "Dianne Miller" Subject: "Kidnapping" case >From Dianne: I just received this from a pastor's wife: [This appeal was forwarded last week from Fred G. Zaspel (Pastor of Word of Life Baptist Church,Pottsville, PA ) from a pastor friend of his in Massachusetts whose granddaughter was taken away from her mother by the state around Nov. 10. She is a homeschooled child, aged 7, who is ahead of her age in school, but the charge is educational neglect. Please pray for these good people and the larger situation and its implications. ] - --- Dear Friends, Just an update, to fill you in on what took place, as we have talked with our daughter Debbie. 3 came in - 2 men & a woman. They had No court order. When they were asked to see the court order, the response was - "we don't need any court order." There was no subpoena, nor any warrant. They would not allow Debbie to call her lawyer. When John, their son, went to the phone to call the lawyer, the DSS worker started screaming at John. Marcedes was screaming and crying out, "noooooo, tomorrow's my birthday, I won't be able to see my grandma & grandpa." They were so forceful -- Marcedes screamed so loudly she almost vomited. The one DSS worker screamed at Marcedes & 'barked' orders to her. Marcedes was almost hysterical. They literally ripped Marcedes out of Debbie's arms. They then proceeded to shove Marcedes & throw her into the car they took her away in. (And DSS knows how to handle children?????? If we had done that to any of our children, what would have happened to us????) Sharon, our oldest daughter, and also a home school mom of six precious children, called the Homeschool Legal Defense - the woman hearing what had taken place broke down & cried - and said they will get back to Sharon as soon as possible. We have found out that Marcedes was taken to Greenfield, MA - the judge there works hand in hand w/DSS - and is known to be a 'witch' in breaking up families. Dear Ones, we are in a state of shock. The lawyer will be seen tomorrow afternoon and another lawyer, who deals with nothing but DSS, will be in on Monday. Meanwhile, the weekend seems VERY long, looming in front of us. Bill has a funeral of one of the member's husbands on Monday afternoon. YOUR PRAYERS ARE DESPERATELY NEEDED!!!!!! How thankful we can be that even the wicked are under God's sovereign hand! ONLY BY HIS GRACE, Bill & Marianne Plenge Rom. 8:28, 29 - - - - 11/18/00 Update Dear Family and Friends in Christ, We had a hearing to try to get custody of Debbie's daughter back, on November 17, 2000. Due to bureaucratic delay and an arrogant Department of Social Services, the hearing was postponed until Nov 28. During that time, the daughter must languish in a foster home, even though plenty of family is available to care for her. This is a typical ploy to gain control, and to have time to try to get damaging admissions from her by regular interrogation. Once they get an admission that is sufficiently bad, then they will have a pretext to keep custody of the child. The charges against Debbie are: 1. Prayer-it appears that within a family, prayer is abusive conduct. 2. Teaching of forgiveness - this also is abusive conduct. 3. Making a child do housework. Debbie's daughter is a very caring, loving child. She enjoys helping and wanted to help her Mommy, who was suffering a back injury, get better. She ASKED her mother, "Mommy, what can I do?" So she helped to do a few chores around the house. This was twisted around to mean 'abuse.' The question put to the little girl was "What do you do to help Mommy?" How would your children answer that one? Please be aware that the Child Protective Services department in every state in the nation now has experimental programs, for which they NEED many new children into the system each day. The more children the State has in these programs the more money the State receives. Worse, the federal adoption laws pay big bonuses for every child the state can grab, and eventually place for adoption The state can make $25,000 to $250,000 per child per year while they have them in captivity, and then more cash when they adopt them out. This has turned social services into a business of stealing and selling children for profit. Please also be aware: There is NO Due Process for children in this nation. There are secret trials, without juries, illegal searches of homes without a warrant to take children, very little proof needed to prove abuse, automatic custody of children given to the state, and other atrocities. Once they are taken by DSS they can have no representation except what DSS approves of. DSS then works with the children to manipulate them into saying things that can and will be used against the family, or to say, in any way they can, to say "I don't want to go home." When that is said or implied, the child is then put up for adoption. THEN the State gets XXX number of dollars for every child from DSS that gets adopted. If you can take the time, please read the attachment on the Adoption Law that President Clinton signed into effect in 1997. If you can access Title 42, please read that also. The family will return to court Tuesday, Nov. 28th for the next court appearance. We still do not know where the little girl is or what they have done to her. They cruelly let the family know that she is "very happy where she is." WHAT CAN YOU DO TO HELP? 1. Pray! 2. Commit to praying daily for Debbie's daughter Marcedes that she will not be manipulated to say things that can hurt her or her family. That she will be returned to her mother's arms (she aches to hold her again) on the 28th. That the judge will order her returned to her rightful home. 3. Commit to praying daily for Debbie & Billy ~ as they and each of us realize that the battle presents much bigger issues than we at first thought. Debbie realizes that they have come to the kingdom for "such a time as this." (Esther 4:14) 4. Commit to praying daily for the judge that she will be impartial and see the travesty that has taken place here. (She has cancelled her vacation to continue to sit on this case. We don't know if this is favorable or not.) Pray that she will be compelled to give a righteous judgment. 5. Pray for the lawyer - he needs a special measure of God's grace ~ there is so much taking place ~ that he doesn't get distracted and can remain focused. 6. DO NOTHING without the family's AND the lawyers' approval. We need to focus on getting the child home. THEN we can do the next things. 7. Commit to becoming educated about what is going on in our country. Read. Search out information. Become involved. Realize that this IS indeed happening and hurting children and families all across this nation of ours. If you have internet service, please check out: http://www.nationaloutrage.org http://www.cpswatch.com http://www.massoutrage.com 8. Get involved IN the world around you and be the "salt" and "light" you should be. 9. Encourage those who are going through heartaches and trials and don't say, "What did YOU DO?" Being judgmental at a time like this only adds to the burdens and difficulties. God hasn't explained to us what He is doing. NOR does He HAVE to! Please re-read the charges again! Could YOU be charged with this? 10. Pray for the extended family that we can be a godly comfort and positive help to our kids and precious little granddaughter at such a difficult times in their lives. We all missed out on celebrating the little one's birthday. Now we must all miss her at Thanksgiving. Thank you for your love and your concern for each of us. Please forward this as you prayerfully see fit. The lawyer approved of us writing this letter. The facts have been verified by him and he added some web sites. Because of Calvary, Bill & Marianne Plenge Ps. 62:5. "Do not be afraid nor dismayed because of this great multitude, for the battle is not yours, but God's." 2 Chronicles 20:12 My hope is built on nothing less Than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame, But wholly trust in Jesus' name. On Christ the solid rock I stand, All other ground is sinking sand; All other ground is sinking sand. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:HR00867:@@@L http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.867.ENR: Parental Notification Amendment Introduced to SB 684 at http://www.hslda.org/hslda/stalerts/docs/LA990510.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #402 *************************