From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #473 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Tuesday, November 6 2001 Volume 02 : Number 473 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:21:03 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Anthrax etc., cure (fwd) Just in from: http://enterprisemission.com/anthrax.htm Inexpensive Anthrax Breakthrough? ?This is the start of the post-genomics therapeutic revolution ? We have developed non-toxic nanoemulsions that penetrate and kill infectious microbes from flu viruses to anthrax spores ? The possibilities are truly limitless.? This statement by Dr. James R. Baker, inventor of the revolutionary disinfection protocol described above, and director of the new Center for Biologic Nanotechnolgy at the University of Michigan, is welcomed by those now concerned with the rash of ?anthrax mail attacks? around the Nation. Dr. Baker has described this breakthrough as ?nanobomb technology? -- an allusion to the extremely small (nanometer) size of the aerosol of disinfectant agents that mechanically seek out and kill a wide spectrum of infectious microorganisms, without deleterious side effects to living tissue. The technique has been described by others as ?the biological equivalent of a laser-guided bomb for microorganisms.? The full details of the University of Michigan breakthrough, and its successful testing by the U.S. Army, can be found at the Center for Biologic Nanotechnology website. http://nano.med.umich.edu However, all is not good news. Though developed with the direct support of the U.S. Department of Defense, Dr. Baker?s radical technique for fighting anthrax and a wide array of other possible bioterrorism threats, for some reason, is NOT receiving wide discussion or high priority funding in Washington at present. One major impediment to immediate wide spread public use is Food and Drug Administration clinical trials and certification. Responsibility for directing the FDA to carry out such ?accelerated trials,? in this current National emergency, rests at the Cabinet level of the Administration: in part, with the Office of Health and Human Services (HHS). The Enterprise Mission has discovered that one of it?s long-time close associates is also extremely good friends with ?Tommy? Thompson, President Bush?s Cabinet Secretary in charge of Health and Human Services. The full details of this University of Michigan breakthrough in the war on bioterrorism has, at our instigation, been communicated in the last few days directly with Secretary Thompson. It is our strong recommendation that all those reading this review immediately communicate their own serious concerns to the Secretary, and demand that immediate FDA trials of Dr. Baker?s protocol be carried out. And, to facilitate this, we have identified Secretary?s Thompson?s official Washington HSS fax number: 202-690-7203 -- HHS Cabinet Secretary ?Tommy? Thompson?s Fax Number Capitol Hill 202-224-3132 (Ask for Senators Fax Number) White House 202-456-2461 John McCain 202-228-2862 Email: Senator_McCain@mccain.senate.gov President George W. Bush president@whitehouse.gov As with the previously immensely successful NASA campaigns that Enterprise has organized in Washington in past years, we strongly recommend that you fax this crucial information immediately. That you use this official government fax number for Secretary Thompson freely. It is NOT Secretary Thomson?s home fax number, but is an official number in his Washington HHS office. Do not send e-mail (in government, it is deleted). Do send this announcement to your family, friends and neighbors, so that they can send their faxes. You can also send faxes to the Whitehouse and congress: In addition, we strongly recommend that you simultaneously send a copy of the fax you send to Secretary Thompson to members of the national media and press corp. Here are a few of their representative fax numbers: ABC FAX (Ted Koppel) 202-222-7976 BACKUP ABC FAX: 202-222-7680 CNN 404-681-3578 One special note: you cannot send a copy of your fax to some news media, but you can send them e-mail. One such example is Bill O?Reilly, at Fox News. As an aggressive investigative reporter, who has been on top of the September 11th story from day one, Bill does NOT delete e-mail, so immediately send him a copy of your Thompson fax -- as an e-mail -- at: oreilly@foxnews.com Other media that have only e-mails are the folks at NBC, where the first network ?anthrax attack? occurred: Tom Brokaw, the direct object of the attack at NBC Nightly News, should be especially interested in this breakthrough. His e-mail is: Nightly@nbc.com The Today Show e-mail is: today@nbc.com Meet the Press - Tim Russert Hardball with Chris Matthews The News with Brian Williams CBS Evening News with Dan Rather - evening@cbsnews.com This is by no means a complete list. Use your own initiative and find additional fax numbers/e-mail addresses for both national and local media. This problem affects us ALL! Finally, in this vein, don?t forget to send your ?Thompson fax? to the one member of Congress we know will act: Senator John McCain. He?s acted on our behalf before, and as a veteran he?ll certainly want to know about this remarkable technology to fight the new bioterrorism threats. Here?s his Washington Fax number: John McCain 202-228-2862 Email: Senator_McCain@mccain.senate.gov Only if YOU act, will the immense inertia of the Washington bureaucracy -- even in this time of National emergency -- be overcome. So, fax and e-mail NOW. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 00:09:00 -0500 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Re: roc-digest V2 #472 At 02:06 PM 10/19/2001 -0600, roc-digest wrote: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:28:50 -0700 >From: Bill Vance >Subject: Osama calls up Bush on the phone... (fwd) > >Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:59:48 -0600 (MDT) >From: Nosy >Subject: Osama calls up Bush on the phone... In the same vien I heard a good one today: OBL goes to a fortuneteller and asks if the soothsayer can see the date of his death. The fortunteller says, "yes I can, you will die on an American holiday". OBL says, "Well what day will it be", and the soothsayer replies "Whatever day you die will be an American holiday". Then there was this shorty I heard on the radio: "Do you know what OBL is going to be for Halloween? (Scross down for answer) Dead! Dennis J. Sylvester Captain USAFR(ret) - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:20:21 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Re: roc-digest V2 #472 Along with that, I heard a new name for him today: @$$-hole-ah Bent Hardon.....:-) On Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 12:09:00AM -0500, Joe Sylvester wrote: >From: Joe Sylvester >Subject: Re: roc-digest V2 #472 > >At 02:06 PM 10/19/2001 -0600, roc-digest wrote: >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:28:50 -0700 >>From: Bill Vance >>Subject: Osama calls up Bush on the phone... (fwd) >> >>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:59:48 -0600 (MDT) >>From: Nosy >>Subject: Osama calls up Bush on the phone... > > > >In the same vien I heard a good one today: > >OBL goes to a fortuneteller and asks if the soothsayer can see the date of >his death. The fortunteller says, "yes I can, you will die on an American >holiday". OBL says, "Well what day will it be", and the soothsayer replies >"Whatever day you die will be an American holiday". > >Then there was this shorty I heard on the radio: > >"Do you know what OBL is going to be for Halloween? > >(Scross down for answer) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dead! > > >Dennis J. Sylvester >Captain USAFR(ret) - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:31:19 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Senate to SCREW THE PUBLIC (fwd) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 00:43:03 -0400 Subject: Senate to SCREW THE PUBLIC From: semperfidave@juno.com From: To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: URGENT! Senate Allowing Internet Taxation This Weekend ********************************* Dear e-Citizen, As the old saying goes: The power to tax is the power to destroy. With that in mind, Congress is poised to destroy the Internet as you and I know it. On Sunday, October 21, 2001, a moratorium which prohibits government from taxing the Internet will expire. Originally imposed in 1998, reports the Associated Press, the moratorium "prohibits taxes on Internet access and bans any tax that singles out the Internet." If the moratorium expires, the barn door to Internet taxation will be thrown WIDE open to politicians who see a honey-pot of new tax revenue they just won't be able to resist dipping their paws into. "Internet taxes are simply a way for incompetent governors to swell their budgets with the hard-earned dollars of taxpayers outside of their districts," says Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform. "The practice is tantamount to taxation without representation, is unconstitutional, and is a fraud widely recognized by Americans all across the country." On Tuesday, the Republican-controlled House passed H.R. 1552, an extension of the ban for an additional two years, and sent the bill over to the Senate. On Thursday, the Democrat-controlled Senate refused to pass the extension before adjourning for the weekend. That means the moratorium will indeed expire on Sunday. "Starting Monday, there's an opportunity for considerable mischief," said Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.). Indeed there is. Especially under the current economic conditions, with governments at all levels scrambling to find new money to fund new programs rather than set spending priorities and cut wasteful spending. But that's an argument for another day. The Senate is scheduled to reconvene on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 to wrap up lingering business before adjourning for the year. If the Senate fails to reconsider its position, you're going to see the biggest camel's tax-nose under you're e-tent since Al Gore invented the Internet. There's no time to waste. Please contact your two U.S. senators IMMEDIATELY by signing the "Permanent Ban on Internet Taxes" petition at http://www.libertypetitions.com urging them to vote in favor of S. 777 to "extend the moratorium enacted by the Internet Tax Freedom Act." Then get everyone on your e-mail list to do the same. Final Note: Many of you will recall an e-mail that has been circulating for a long time falsely claiming that Congress was prepared to pass bill 602(P) to impose taxes on the Internet. It was a hoax (congressional bills aren't even numbered that way). But it fooled a LOT of people. This one, folks, is NOT a hoax. It's a real threat. But don't take my word for it. Go to the official congressional web site at http://thomas.loc.gov and look up S. 777 for yourself. Then immediately go to our web site and fire off this petition to your senators before they go home. There's no time to lose! e-Sincerely yours, Chuck Muth Liberty Petitions To sign this petition, go to: http://www.libertypetitions.com # # # Chuck Muth GOP News & Views Editor/Publisher 3659 Scotwood Street Las Vegas, NV 89121 Phone: (702) 454-0350 Fax: (702) 454-7798 E-mail: chuckmuth@earthlink.net - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 21:26:31 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: CDC at it again! The fascists at Harvard "School for Public Health" have been given millions of dollars of tax money to continue their anti-gun agenda. The "Center for Disease Control" was slapped down a few years ago by Congress for funding anti-gun propaganda, I guess it's time to get Congress to do it again. Contact Information: Robin Herman Harvard School of Public Health 677 Huntington Avenue Boston, MA 02115 Phone: (617) 432-4752 www.hsph.harvard.edu Harvard Injury Control Research Center Receives Major CDC Funding for Five-Year Continuation of Center Boston, MA (AScribe News) - Through a major grant from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the Harvard Injury Control Research Center at the Harvard School of Public Health will continue national efforts to reduce injuries in vulnerable populations. The CDC awarded the Center $4.6 million over five years to continue and expand studies that examine alcohol-related injuries, injuries among the elderly, violence against women, suicide and interpersonal violence among urban youth, and evaluation of firearms policies in the United States based on hospital and death statistics. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:10:03 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: SRA - Report From Russia: US Militia. DV. (fwd) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:41:49 -0400 From: Brad3000 Subject: SRA - Report From Russia: US Militia. DV. FYI - Curious report from a Bill White... its worth remembering that US made AR-15's (banned here) are civilian available in Russia with ironically hi-caps... A Russian speaks about the US Militia. The agenda of this author (Russian) is unclear, but the information is a MUST READ. VERY important points contained within that do not normally get printed in mainstream media here. Typical Pravda propaganda but they slam everyone. Some points are very true, some funny. Long but interesting. Brad/Rich/Ken. GUN GROUPS SEE STEADY BLEED INTO MILITIAS; DOMESTIC UNREST STILL GROWING IN UNITED STATES 10/18/2001 http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/10/18/18529.html When agents of America's US Marshals surrounded the Indiana BaptistTemple, accusing the church and its parishioners of violating US tax laws by refusing to pay social security taxes on non-clergical employees, they didn't charge in with guns blazing, as they did at Waco. Concern about bad publicity was there, but there was a more serious concern just under the surface - the Southern Indiana Regional Militia, a 250-man "unorganized" citizen's militia unit, had pledged to defend the church - and their threats were taken seriously. "Steps have been taken and we are ready to respond if something does happen," Roger Stalcup, elected commander of the militia, told Indiana's Hoosier Times, "It's my opinion that if you've got people in that church and the U.S. marshals go in, anything can happen" His statements were taken seriously, and his unit, which marches under the slogan "God Bless The Republic - Death to the New World Order", was listed in a press release by the US Marshals as a major reason they chose to negotiate, rather than raid, the dissident religious group's headquarters. The Southern Indiana Regional Militia had been trained in small-unit tactics by former US military personnel, several of whom hold officer ranks in the citizen's group, and their ability to take on the US govern- ment in a fire fight could not only have been difficult for the federal police forces - it could have been disastrous. The Southern Indiana Regional Militia is not an isolated phenomena - - it is one of hundreds of similar units which have been growing in size and influence across the country since the announcement by George the First of his plans for a "New World Order" - a New World Order that many Americans believe is planning to destroy the US Constitution and enact dictatorial martial law in the name of the United Nations and the international corporate-socialism. [[ It's not a matter of "believing". The legislation and Executive Orders are available for ALL to see. It is rather a matter of ACKNOWLEDGING that this IS what is taking place.]] Origins In America's Gun Activist Community There are three issues that motivate America's militia movement - support of gun rights, opposition to taxation, and opposition to the United Nations and the loss of America's sovereignty to global corporate rule - a system the militias see as socialism and anti- globalists label capitalism, and which is really a blend of the worst elements of the two. Among these issues, the most important, the one that seems most immediately threatening, and which has been the prime motivation for the existence of the militia movement, has been the possibility of nation-wide confiscation of firearms by the US Federal government. In America, the people know that the foundation of their liberty is their ability to use firearms to resist government police and military personnel, and it is widely believed that an attempt to confiscate their arms will be the first step in imposing a dictatorship on US citizens. Daily this has seemed more real, [[And how!]] and thus there has been a steady bleed of activists out of mainstream groups like the National Rifle Association, and into more confrontational activist groups, like Gun Owners of America and the Tyranny Response Team, and eventually into militias and other armed non-governmental formations. [["Confrontational"? How about "More committed to the Constitution"?]] The NRA recently reported in the last election, with voters faced with the threat of anti-gun Al Gore winning the presidency, that its membership surged from under three million to over four million. Some say that number is slowly edging closer to five. In a nation of 280 million people, nearly 1.5% of the population - one person out of sixty six - is a member of the country's largest gun lobby. It is from these membership figures, and from the ability to mobilize large numbers of activists at the local level and bring them out to work polls and fill campaign offices for pro-gun politicians, that the NRA has always derived its power. While there is no doubt of the NRA's monetary power, it's opponents, often funded by billionaires like Andrew J. McKelvey, can usually match or exceed it in that arena. What the NRA has that anti-gun groups don't is the ability to bring out tens of thousands of Americans each election cycle to hand out literature, plant road signs, fold mailings, and engage in the community activism needed to fight anti-gun legislation. But its in this arena that upstart groups have offered the most competition. Gun Owners of America, headed by Larry Pratt, is a radically pro-gun ((what's that again? Brad)) organization that, in contrast to the NRA, has called for the elimination of all regulations on firearms purchases and ownership, including mandatory background checks, and which has taken a hard line against the United Nations. Pratt is a radical Constitutionalist [[Radical? What is so damned radical about the Constitution the way it was written?]] and Christian who openly mixes his religious beliefs with his politics, and has been accused of sharing the stage with even more extreme leaders - including members of the Aryan Nations and the Ku Klux Klan (though he has not been accused of sharing their views). [[I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.. "shares the stage but not their views"??]] In 1996, that accusation forced Pratt out as an aid to the Buchanan campaign. In 1998, according to anti-gun researcher Kenneth Stern, Pratt's organization had 100,000 members. Now, similar anti-gun researchers estimate his group has grown to as many as 150,000 - 200,000 in size, and there is no question that the core of his strength is NRA grassroots activists who are leaving the NRA to be involved in more militant forms of activism. [[How about "No Compromise"]] Another group that has worked with Pratt's, and which forms an even more confrontational front of its own, is the Tyranny Response Team, a network of pro-gun "minute men", based on the minute men militias of the American Revolution, who go out to anti-gun events and to speeches by anti-gun politicians to confront and challenge the often skewed and distorted presentation of gun politics. The TRT, founded by Jewish gun store owner Bob Glass, has also gone beyond gun activism, holding regular 500-man protests against the Internal Revenue Service and the United Nations conference on small arms. While the TRT declined to give out membership information, it has branches in approximately 33 states, and most branches have 50 to 100 regular active members, meaning the group comprises at least 1500 regular activists nationwide - with an unknown number of less- active "supporting" members. - -------------------------- Any other views expressed herein, are my own, not bought or sponsored in any shape or form, by or for any organization, currently existing or not. It should be noted: the URL posted is very likely to suddenly expire & if the reader wants to read the full article, they should should visit the copyright holders listed site very promptly. References & partial texts are given for EDUCATIONAL & INFORMATIONAL purposes only as per the "Fair Use" as described in Title-17, Sect 107 below. ---------------------------------------------------------------- **COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for nonprofit research & educational purposes only. [Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml] ---------------------------------------------------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 00:11:05 -0500 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" Subject: reuters quote from your company -- bad data The following appeared in a reuters.com article about face recognition technology: "Visionics spokeswoman Frances Zelazny countered, "My answer to that is that people are going to the airport to travel. Travel is a privilege, not a right. And if somebody was to remove your glasses to perform a test against a watchlist of terrorists, then that is reasonable." " Travel is a right, not a privilege. This is the USA, not the Soviet Union. Read the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. I expect a retraction of this comment made public immediately, or I will be mobilizing freedom loving Americans to set you straight in public forums. sincerely Chad Leigh Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 09:12:11 -0500 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Re: reuters quote from your company -- bad data My response to Frances is if she is that ignorant of the Rights of We The People then she needs to be educated in the Law! We have rights that are both enumerated and unenumerated. The right to travel is one of the unenumerated rights we have that are forbidden to government action. It seems that more and more those in power are becoming increasingly arrogant and need to be corrected or suffer the fate of all tyrants. Tom At 00:11 11/2/01 -0500, Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC wrote: >The following appeared in a reuters.com article about face recognition >technology: > >"Visionics spokeswoman Frances Zelazny countered, "My answer to that is >that people are going to the airport to travel. Travel is a privilege, not >a right. And if somebody was to remove your glasses to perform a test >against a watchlist of terrorists, then that is reasonable." >" > >Travel is a right, not a privilege. This is the USA, not the Soviet >Union. Read the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, and the >Bill of Rights. > >I expect a retraction of this comment made public immediately, or I will >be mobilizing freedom loving Americans to set you straight in public forums. > >sincerely >Chad Leigh > > >Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC >Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting >Chad Leigh >chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net > > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 06:31:17 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: TEXAN VIEW ON TERRORISM (fwd) From: Charles Nawrocki Subject: Re: reuters quote from your company -- bad data "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" wrote: >Travel is a right, not a privilege. This is the USA, not the Soviet Union. >Read the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, and the Bill of >Rights. Travel may well be a right, as you say, but boarding a specific aircraft is a privilege one has purchased with the ticket and the bearer is subject to whatever conditions the vendor has placed on it. Like it or not, a good way to get around the Constitution, et al., is to have the airlines as private companies set their own regulations. You have the right to travel, but not the right to do it on their aircraft. If you don't like the regulations, then there are other ways of travelling -- Shank's mare, for instance. Note that many appear to be exercising that option. Passenger numbers are still quite depressed with respect to pre-9/11 levels, and United Airlines is apparently in serious financial difficulty on that account. This is particularly significant in that UAL passengers are apparently primarily engaged in travel related to business. Either companies are discovering that they really don't need to gad about all that much, or they are finding alternative means of getting things done, or they're just not doing them any more. In practice, it appears that most airlines are willing to grasp at any straw which gives the appearance of improved security. One reason is that terrorist incidents are bad for business; another is by way of reducing legal liability should one in fact occur. If the airlines want face-recognition systems, they'll install them and the FBI will "share" its databases as a "public service." Don't like it? Neither do I, but there it is, and it's legal. Clarification: legal != right legal != useful legal != effective legal == it is permitted The opinions which I have expressed herein are entirely my own, unless other- wise noted. No-one else should be held responsible for what I think. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | D. N. Dickey | Virtuous motives, trammeled by inertia and | | Research Associate | timidity, are no match for armed and | | Northern Illinois Univ. | resolute wickedness. | | neil@earth.geol.niu.edu | - W. S. Churchill | | | | - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 10:35:49 -0500 From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc. Subject: Re: reuters quote from your company -- bad data On Friday, November 2, 2001, at 10:29 , Neil Dickey wrote: > > "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" > wrote: > >> Travel is a right, not a privilege. This is the USA, not the Soviet >> Union. >> Read the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, and the Bill of >> Rights. > > Travel may well be a right, as you say, but boarding a specific aircraft > is a privilege one has purchased with the ticket and the bearer is > subject > to whatever conditions the vendor has placed on it. Like it or not, a > good way to get around the Constitution, et al., is to have the airlines > as private companies set their own regulations. You have the right to > travel, but not the right to do it on their aircraft. If you don't like > the regulations, then there are other ways of travelling -- Shank's > mare, > for instance. > I was addressing the statement by the lady, not the "solution" of putting in the face recognition systems, which, btw, are not being put in by the airlines, it appears, but by the airport authorities, which is government. Anyway, the whole discussion is not whether they should or shouldn't have such devices, but rather the dumb statement the lady said about travel. Airlines SHOULD be able to do whatever they want. However, they are not allowed by the government to do whatever they want. That is a different topic however. > Clarification: > > legal != right > legal != useful > legal != effective > legal == it is permitted > Again, that is not the topic at hand. Chad - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:49:04 -0600 (CST) From: Neil Dickey Subject: Re: reuters quote from your company -- bad data "Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc." wrote in response to me: >I was addressing the statement by the lady, not the "solution" of >putting in the face recognition systems, which, btw, are not being put >in by the airlines, it appears, but by the airport authorities, which is >government. It is my impression that "airport authorities" are a convenient, if Byzantine, mix of public and private entities. Rest assured that the lawyers have been involved. >From the context of her remarks, it is reasonable to suggest that in using the word "travel" she was referring to "air travel." If one has wings of his own, then the right exists. If not, then the right is subject to the requirements of those who provide them. The opinions which I have expressed herein are entirely my own, unless other- wise noted. No-one else should be held responsible for what I think. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | D. N. Dickey | Virtuous motives, trammeled by inertia and | | Research Associate | timidity, are no match for armed and | | Northern Illinois Univ. | resolute wickedness. | | neil@earth.geol.niu.edu | - W. S. Churchill | | | | - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 03:29:50 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: [WSTRT] Election Alert: 21st Leg. Dist. (So. Sno. County) (fwd) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 20:29:39 -0800 From: Dan Frank Subject: [Fwd: [WSTRT] Election Alert: 21st Leg. Dist. (So. Sno. County)] From: Washington State Tyranny Response Team Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:15:18 -0800 Reply-To: wstrt-owner@yahoogroups.com Subject: [WSTRT] Election Alert: 21st Leg. Dist. (So. Sno. County) For anyone living in the 21st Legislative District, here is some clear information on the options for this upcoming election, courtesy of the MMM. Please pass this on as appropriate. =jeff ============================================================= Message: 1 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:25:28 -0000 From: MMMSeaKing@aol.com Subject: Important race in 21st District Dear Million Mom supporters: We would like to alert you to a very important race in the 21st Legislative District (South Snohomish County). The incumbent, Joe Marine (R), and the challenger, Brian Sullivan (D), are in a very tight race. Joe Marine is not a supporter of our mission, and has accepted campaign contributions from the NRA. When one of our members asked him at a forum last week about his stance on the gun issue his reply was "The last time I checked, the 2nd Amendment had not been repealed." Brian Sullivan supports our mission and has stated that he is in favor of all our common sense policy goals, such as closing the gun show loophole, licensing and registration, and consumer product safety standards. Sullivan has been endorsed by the Seattle P.I. (read the full article at: http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/opinion/44202_dist21ed.shtml). The Sullivan campaign is in need of volunteers this week at his Mukilteo office for a last push before the election next Tuesday. They need people for phone bank in the evenings and during the day on Thursday and Friday, and canvassing on Saturday at 10:00 am and Sunday at noon. Since they have limited phones, they've requested that people call first to schedule some time to help. Even if you don't live in the 21st District, the outcome of this race is important to all of us in gaining a majority in the State House of Representatives for those who will vote in favor of common sense gun laws. Won't you please consider spending an hour or two on this important election? The information for the Brian Sullivan Campaign is below. (When you go, please let them know you're with the Million Mom March!) Deborah Gandolfo Executive Director MMM Seattle/King County - -- Washington State Tyranny Response Team PO Box 3010 Kent, WA 98032 http://www.trt-wa.org / http://www.wstrt.com (253) 941.9084 - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: DoJ Report Contradicts Anti-Gun Claims. DV. (fwd) "-------------------- begin forwarded message from Brad3000 ------------------" Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:15:54 -0500 From: Brad3000 Subject: SRA - DoJ Report Contradicts Anti-Gun Claims. DV. FYI - Suspect we shall be hearing more on this reporrt... (Via www.gunsafe.org) http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200111\CUL20011105c.html Justice Department Report Contradicts Anti-Gun Claims By Jeff Johnson - CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief. Nov05, 2001 Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - A new Justice Department report on criminal gun use contradicts several anti-gun claims by groups opposing the Second Amendment right of individuals to keep and bear arms. One of those groups, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (BCPGV), has long argued against firearms ownership by private citizens except for "legitimate purposes," which the organization does not believe, based on its writings, include self-defense. The group promoted President Clinton's ban on so-called "assault weapons," legislation that prevents law-abiding citizens from possessing many semiautomatic firearms. Inmates serving time in state prisons during 1997 told researchers that they obtained their guns from the following sources in percentages: - - Purchased from a retail store - 8.3 percent - - Purchased at a pawn shop - 3.8 percent - - Purchased at a flea market - 1.0 percent - - Purchased in a gun show - 0.7 percent - - Obtained from friends or family - 39.6 percent - - Got on the street/illegal source - 39.2 percent "They're going to call for more gun control because they always do," Velleco said. "But people are going to start asking, 'Where have gun control laws gotten us?' We're less safe now, there are more crimes using guns, there are more multiple victim shootings. "What we need is the ability to defend ourselves," he added, "not more laws that render us defenseless, and do nothing to stop criminals." "-------------------- end forwarded message from Brad3000 ------------------" - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #473 *************************