From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Folk medicine and FMS/CFS Date: 04 Nov 2002 14:12:37 -0700 Dear thmi-fms subscriber, I hope that this finds you doing well. Last year my nephew was afflicted with an in-grown toenail. His mother and father suggested he soak his foot in warm water. The condition was causing him a great deal of pain and he wanted an "experts" opinion in the matter. He went to his Dr., who upon looking at the toe for a couple minutes, told him to go home and soak his foot in warm water. You can imagine his frustration when he received a bill for $50 from his doctor. I'm not sure what he was expecting from his doctor; Maybe a pill, or a recommended surgical procedure that would quickly fix the condition. For some conditions doctors are unable to suggest anything better than what folk medicine has shown to be helpful. FMS is similar in that folk medicine is as beneficial as anything that the doctors are able to provide (in my opinion, folk medicine is probably better than any of the medications that doctors can prescribe). But, like my nephew, most people with FMS/CFS want health care information to come from a recognized "expert". If you monitor any list for FMS/CFS you will find posts from people looking for a doctor that is good at treating FMS/CFS since their current doctor is apparently unable to help them find relief. The one thing that most people are looking for is relief from muscle pain related to the condition. A doctor is the only person that can legally prescribe medications for pain control. However, with many Drs. are being scrutinized for the number of prescriptions written for pain meds, it is becoming more difficult to find a Dr. willing to prescribe pain medications for long term. Masking the pain signal does nothing toward helping to reverse the condition; It only makes it more tolerable to live with the condition. In the long run this practice could even be doing more harm than good. Your body is screaming at you to make some changes but with the right meds you can mask that constant nagging pain and push on with the things that you feel you must do. The one part of the program that some people are finding most difficult is taking the time to relax. It takes about an hour to do a sauna and this should be done at least 2X/week. When people do start to feel a little better they then try to do those things that they have had to put off until they had the energy, they tend to overdo things and usually end up in a flare. When you've had enough and you are ready to try an alternative approach to relief let me know. I'll give you my suggestions and help where I can. If you still feel the need for an "experts" opinion hopefully your insurance will cover it. And, when you've proven that that approach is not helping, I'll still be here (maybe) to assist you when your ready. A person does not develop FMS/CFS overnight. Certainly in some instances it may have have seemed that way but in those cases the person was probably headed that direction and some trauma or illness was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. The point is that FMS/CFS did not develop overnight and reversing the condition is not going to happen overnight. But, the condition can be reversed. All the best, Jim PS: Those with FIR heaters, are you enjoying the warmth? - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Madi" Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Folk medicine and FMS/CFS Date: 05 Nov 2002 10:42:58 -0800 FIR heater testimonial: I've lived in this house for 8 years and dreaded the winters because the house is so cold. (It's wonderful in the summer). It is all electric and I would buy little core heaters with a fan to distribute heat. The wiring in this house is old and I can't overtax it so I would stay in one room at a time with a heater. My new FIR heaters are so wonderful. They heat up the whole house and do not tax the wiring. I get two benefits, the sauna to get well and I don't dread this winter cold anymore. Madi ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:12 PM > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > I hope that this finds you doing well. > > Last year my nephew was afflicted with an in-grown toenail. His > mother and father suggested he soak his foot in warm water. The condition > was causing him a great deal of pain and he wanted an "experts" opinion > in the matter. He went to his Dr., who upon looking at the toe for a > couple minutes, told him to go home and soak his foot in warm water. > You can imagine his frustration when he received a bill for $50 from his > doctor. > > I'm not sure what he was expecting from his doctor; Maybe a pill, or a > recommended surgical procedure that would quickly fix the condition. > > For some conditions doctors are unable to suggest anything better > than what folk medicine has shown to be helpful. FMS is similar in that > folk medicine is as beneficial as anything that the doctors are able to > provide (in my opinion, folk medicine is probably better than any of the > medications that doctors can prescribe). But, like my nephew, most people > with FMS/CFS want health care information to come from a recognized "expert". > If you monitor any list for FMS/CFS you will find posts from people looking > for a doctor that is good at treating FMS/CFS since their current doctor > is apparently unable to help them find relief. > > The one thing that most people are looking for is relief from muscle pain > related to the condition. A doctor is the only person that can legally > prescribe medications for pain control. However, with many Drs. are being > scrutinized for the number of prescriptions written for pain meds, it is > becoming more difficult to find a Dr. willing to prescribe pain > medications for long term. > > Masking the pain signal does nothing toward helping to reverse the > condition; It only makes it more tolerable to live with the condition. > In the long run this practice could even be doing more harm than good. Your > body is screaming at you to make some changes but with the right meds > you can mask that constant nagging pain and push on with the things that > you feel you must do. > > The one part of the program that some people are finding most difficult > is taking the time to relax. It takes about an hour to do a sauna and > this should be done at least 2X/week. When people do start to feel a > little better they then try to do those things that they have had to > put off until they had the energy, they tend to overdo things and usually > end up in a flare. > > When you've had enough and you are ready to try an alternative approach > to relief let me know. I'll give you my suggestions and help where I can. > If you still feel the need for an "experts" opinion hopefully your > insurance will cover it. And, when you've proven that that approach is > not helping, I'll still be here (maybe) to assist you when your ready. > > A person does not develop FMS/CFS overnight. Certainly in some instances > it may have have seemed that way but in those cases the person was > probably headed that direction and some trauma or illness was the proverbial > straw that broke the camels back. The point is that FMS/CFS did not develop > overnight and reversing the condition is not going to happen overnight. > But, the condition can be reversed. > > All the best, > Jim > > PS: Those with FIR heaters, are you enjoying the warmth? > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mary Michel Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Folk medicine and FMS/CFS Date: 05 Nov 2002 15:41:52 -0800 (PST) --0-1899495136-1036539712=:76035 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Re: the FIR heater: I bought a heater from Jim a few weeks ago. I live in a one story house on a cement slab and since getting CFIDS I have been freezing in the fall, winter and spring. Deep, bone chiling freezing. My heat pump does not warm the house and especially the floors (which are bare due to allergies). This heater is the answer!!! I am finally warm and comfortable and it seems to heat not only me but the whole room I have it in. It is totally silent (I can't tolerate the constant blowing of the heat pump), does not blow air at me, nor stir up the dust. I have not yet used it as a sauna but am more than satisfied to use it as a heater. I am going to buy another one (at least one) for another room. In the past I have used other regular heaters and have had to throw them out after only two seasons. They also blew air at me and I had to stand over them to feel any warmth. No longer!!!!!!! Many thanks to Jim for introducing me to and supplying me with the FIR heater. Mary Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now --0-1899495136-1036539712=:76035 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Re: the FIR heater:

I bought a heater from Jim a few weeks ago.  I live in a one story house on a cement slab and since getting CFIDS I have been freezing in the fall, winter and spring. Deep, bone chiling freezing.  My heat pump does not warm the house and especially the floors (which are bare due to allergies).  This heater is the answer!!!  I am finally warm and comfortable and it seems to heat not only me but the whole room I have it in.  It is totally silent (I can't tolerate the constant blowing of the heat pump), does not blow air at me, nor stir up the dust.  I have not yet used it as a sauna but am more than satisfied to use it as a heater.  I am going to buy another one (at least one) for another room.

In the past I have used other regular heaters and have had to throw them out after only two seasons.  They also blew air at me and I had to stand over them to feel any warmth.  No longer!!!!!!!

Many thanks to Jim for introducing me to and supplying me with the FIR heater.

Mary


Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now --0-1899495136-1036539712=:76035-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS Date: 05 Nov 2002 22:14:11 -0700 Dear thmi-fms subscriber, The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message Board responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root cause of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium in the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete Book of Minerals for Health, pg. 99). Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. With decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is decreased. A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to produce energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic acid (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing factor. For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a physical or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is comparatively quite large in the body. Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the implications of the report below. Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. These populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney problems. A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 You would think that people would know better than to vote this stuff be added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to have it added to bottled water too. All the best, Jim Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Madi" Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS Date: 05 Nov 2002 23:39:04 -0800 So eventually someone will have to invent a fluoride filter for people who don't want the stuff in their water. My dentist coats my teeth with it - eeeek! Madi ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:14 PM > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message Board > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root cause > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium in > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete Book of > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. With > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is decreased. > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to produce > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic acid > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing factor. > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a physical > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is comparatively > quite large in the body. > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the implications > of the report below. > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. These > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney > problems. > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this stuff be > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to have > it added to bottled water too. > > All the best, > Jim > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drgojny@att.net Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Folk medicine and FMS/CFS Date: 07 Nov 2002 01:09:11 +0000 Aren't fanticies wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drgojny@att.net Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS Date: 07 Nov 2002 01:33:54 +0000 Dear jim ; I have kept scilence for some time monitoring your responces. I am a scientist with 2 PHd. and I have to say that your your missing the point,. Healing is the point of giving to others what is real. My persolal point of chenistry that is real. I won't devulge any thing more but if you you would like to contact me please do so at 619 267 3734. > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message Board > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root cause > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium in > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete Book of > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. With > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is decreased. > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to produce > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic acid > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing factor. > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a physical > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is comparatively > quite large in the body. > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the implications > of the report below. > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. These > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney > problems. > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this stuff be > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to have > it added to bottled water too. > > All the best, > Jim > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drgojny@att.net Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS Date: 07 Nov 2002 01:42:57 +0000 Cronic Fatigue Syndrum is A complexed syndrom -------How does one influnce complete the syndtrom????????????????????? Its a comple system failure.The answer is a complete sytem chemistry=========== What is the ansewer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > So eventually someone will have to invent a fluoride filter for people who > don't want the stuff in their water. My dentist coats my teeth with it - > eeeek! Madi > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "THMI" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:14 PM > Subject: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS > > > > > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message Board > > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root cause > > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have > > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium in > > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete Book of > > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). > > > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. With > > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is decreased. > > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to produce > > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic acid > > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). > > > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing factor. > > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a physical > > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. > > > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water > > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most > > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a > > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg > > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of > > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of > > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is comparatively > > quite large in the body. > > > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the implications > > of the report below. > > > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually > > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. These > > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, > > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney > > problems. > > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, > > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry > > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 > > > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this stuff be > > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to have > > it added to bottled water too. > > > > All the best, > > Jim > > > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology > > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html > > > > - > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > > > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drgojny@att.net Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS Date: 07 Nov 2002 02:09:48 +0000 This is the Dr. Dr. Who chanllenges the display on line. I can't keep scilence any longer. Look at the reaction bestowed this system. Are you fake or really what to help others?????????// > Dear jim ; I have kept scilence for some time monitoring your responces. I am > a scientist with 2 PHd. and I have to say that > your your missing the point,. Healing is > the point of giving to others what is real. My persolal point of chenistry > that is real. I won't devulge any thing more but if you you would like to > contact me please do so at 619 267 > 3734. > > > > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message Board > > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root cause > > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have > > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium in > > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete Book of > > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). > > > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. With > > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is decreased. > > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to produce > > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic acid > > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). > > > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing factor. > > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a physical > > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. > > > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water > > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most > > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a > > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg > > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of > > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of > > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is comparatively > > quite large in the body. > > > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the implications > > of the report below. > > > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually > > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. These > > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, > > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney > > problems. > > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, > > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry > > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 > > > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this stuff be > > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to have > > it added to bottled water too. > > > > All the best, > > Jim > > > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology > > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html > > > > - > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS Date: 06 Nov 2002 19:18:28 -0700 (MST) I agree that FMS/CFS is a complex syndrome that is the result of multiple system failures but I believe that many of the failing systems are secondary to decreased metabolism, due to blockage in the mitochondria. As one example, with decreased production of ATP, the body is unable to maintain desired temperature. With the drop in temperature the adrenals pump epinephrine and norephinephrine into the system. These hormones signal the system to reduce blood flow to the extremities (vasoconstriction) to preserve operating temperature for the internal organs and to signal the increase of metabolism. The problem is that due to the mitochondrial blockage the cell cannot produce the energy needed. The adrenals were not designed to have to produce its hormones 24 hours a day 7 days a week. In time the person experiences adrenal weakness or failure. A similar thing is going on with the thyroid. It's pumping out hormones telling the system to increase metabolism. Same problem, due to mitochondrial blockage, the cells cannot produce the energy they need. In time that system becomes exhausted. The purpose of the FIR heater is to help elevate the bodies temperature to increase metabolism. Over a period of time with regular sauna use, the goal is to "ungum" the works is acheived. I suspect that the system is gummed up due to lowered cellular pH from the increased dependence on glycolysis for energy production. Per information in the "Cell Physiology Sourcebook" in a decreased pH environment the cell produces more inorganic phosphates. (Note: Dr. St Amands' approach to CFS is to use Guaifenisen to expel inorganic phosphates) According to the UK site the Dr. says inorganic phosphates are binding with magnesium preventing it from entering the cell. Without magnesium the kreb cycle will not function, hence the mitochondrial block preventing energy production. The approach I suggest focuses on increasing energy. This will restore correct pH to the cell and the cell will quit over producing inorganic phosphates. In time the system returns to normal. You are correct about it being a system wide problem. Balance to the entire system must be restored, most of which is accomplished by addressing the specific areas that are causing the system to become out of balance. All the best, Jim ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 drgojny@att.net wrote: > Cronic Fatigue Syndrum is A complexed syndrom -------How does one influnce > complete the syndtrom????????????????????? Its a comple system failure.The > answer is a complete sytem chemistry=========== What is the > ansewer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > So eventually someone will have to invent a fluoride filter for people who > > don't want the stuff in their water. My dentist coats my teeth with it - > > eeeek! Madi > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "THMI" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:14 PM > > Subject: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS > > > > > > > > > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > > > > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message Board > > > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root cause > > > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have > > > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium in > > > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete Book of > > > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). > > > > > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. With > > > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is decreased. > > > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to produce > > > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic acid > > > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). > > > > > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing factor. > > > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a physical > > > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. > > > > > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water > > > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most > > > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a > > > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg > > > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of > > > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of > > > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is comparatively > > > quite large in the body. > > > > > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the implications > > > of the report below. > > > > > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually > > > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. These > > > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, > > > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney > > > problems. > > > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, > > > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry > > > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 > > > > > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this stuff be > > > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to have > > > it added to bottled water too. > > > > > > All the best, > > > Jim > > > > > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology > > > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Madi" Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS Date: 06 Nov 2002 19:40:10 -0800 I had post partum depression which seems to be caused by an adrenal let down after a baby is born. At least, I have read words to that effect and it seemed true in my situation. Madi ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:18 PM > > I agree that FMS/CFS is a complex syndrome that is the result of multiple > system failures but I believe that many of the failing systems are > secondary to decreased metabolism, due to blockage in the mitochondria. > > As one example, with decreased production of ATP, the body is unable to > maintain desired temperature. With the drop in temperature the adrenals > pump epinephrine and norephinephrine into the system. These hormones > signal the system to reduce blood flow to the extremities > (vasoconstriction) to preserve operating temperature for the internal > organs and to signal the increase of metabolism. The problem is that due > to the mitochondrial blockage the cell cannot produce the energy needed. > The adrenals were not designed to have to produce its hormones 24 hours a > day 7 days a week. In time the person experiences adrenal weakness or > failure. > > A similar thing is going on with the thyroid. It's pumping out hormones > telling the system to increase metabolism. Same problem, due to > mitochondrial blockage, the cells cannot produce the energy they need. > In time that system becomes exhausted. > > The purpose of the FIR heater is to help elevate the bodies temperature to > increase metabolism. Over a period of time with regular sauna use, the > goal is to "ungum" the works is acheived. > > I suspect that the system is gummed up due to lowered cellular pH from the > increased dependence on glycolysis for energy production. Per information > in the "Cell Physiology Sourcebook" in a decreased pH environment the cell > produces more inorganic phosphates. (Note: Dr. St Amands' approach to CFS > is to use Guaifenisen to expel inorganic phosphates) According to the UK > site the Dr. says inorganic phosphates are binding with magnesium > preventing it from entering the cell. Without magnesium the kreb cycle > will not function, hence the mitochondrial block preventing energy > production. > > The approach I suggest focuses on increasing energy. This will restore > correct pH to the cell and the cell will quit over producing inorganic > phosphates. In time the system returns to normal. > > You are correct about it being a system wide problem. Balance to the > entire system must be restored, most of which is accomplished by > addressing the specific areas that are causing the system to become out of > balance. > > All the best, > Jim > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com > Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 > > > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 drgojny@att.net wrote: > > > Cronic Fatigue Syndrum is A complexed syndrom -------How does one influnce > > complete the syndtrom????????????????????? Its a comple system failure.The > > answer is a complete sytem chemistry=========== What is the > > ansewer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > So eventually someone will have to invent a fluoride filter for people who > > > don't want the stuff in their water. My dentist coats my teeth with it - > > > eeeek! Madi > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "THMI" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:14 PM > > > Subject: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > > > > > > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message Board > > > > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root cause > > > > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have > > > > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium in > > > > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete Book of > > > > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). > > > > > > > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. With > > > > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is decreased. > > > > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to produce > > > > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic acid > > > > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). > > > > > > > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing factor. > > > > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a physical > > > > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. > > > > > > > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water > > > > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most > > > > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a > > > > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg > > > > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of > > > > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of > > > > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is comparatively > > > > quite large in the body. > > > > > > > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the implications > > > > of the report below. > > > > > > > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually > > > > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. These > > > > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, > > > > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney > > > > problems. > > > > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, > > > > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry > > > > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 > > > > > > > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this stuff be > > > > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to have > > > > it added to bottled water too. > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html > > > > > > > > - > > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > > > - > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > > > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yildiz" Subject: Ynt: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS Date: 07 Nov 2002 13:17:44 +0200 Hi Jim, Do you have any idea on what causes decreased ATP production? Thanks. Nil ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:40 AM | I had post partum depression which seems to be caused by an adrenal let down | after a baby is born. At least, I have read words to that effect and it | seemed true in my situation. Madi | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "THMI" | To: | Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:18 PM | Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS | | | > | > I agree that FMS/CFS is a complex syndrome that is the result of multiple | > system failures but I believe that many of the failing systems are | > secondary to decreased metabolism, due to blockage in the mitochondria. | > | > As one example, with decreased production of ATP, the body is unable to | > maintain desired temperature. With the drop in temperature the adrenals | > pump epinephrine and norephinephrine into the system. These hormones | > signal the system to reduce blood flow to the extremities | > (vasoconstriction) to preserve operating temperature for the internal | > organs and to signal the increase of metabolism. The problem is that due | > to the mitochondrial blockage the cell cannot produce the energy needed. | > The adrenals were not designed to have to produce its hormones 24 hours a | > day 7 days a week. In time the person experiences adrenal weakness or | > failure. | > | > A similar thing is going on with the thyroid. It's pumping out hormones | > telling the system to increase metabolism. Same problem, due to | > mitochondrial blockage, the cells cannot produce the energy they need. | > In time that system becomes exhausted. | > | > The purpose of the FIR heater is to help elevate the bodies temperature to | > increase metabolism. Over a period of time with regular sauna use, the | > goal is to "ungum" the works is acheived. | > | > I suspect that the system is gummed up due to lowered cellular pH from the | > increased dependence on glycolysis for energy production. Per information | > in the "Cell Physiology Sourcebook" in a decreased pH environment the cell | > produces more inorganic phosphates. (Note: Dr. St Amands' approach to CFS | > is to use Guaifenisen to expel inorganic phosphates) According to the UK | > site the Dr. says inorganic phosphates are binding with magnesium | > preventing it from entering the cell. Without magnesium the kreb cycle | > will not function, hence the mitochondrial block preventing energy | > production. | > | > The approach I suggest focuses on increasing energy. This will restore | > correct pH to the cell and the cell will quit over producing inorganic | > phosphates. In time the system returns to normal. | > | > You are correct about it being a system wide problem. Balance to the | > entire system must be restored, most of which is accomplished by | > addressing the specific areas that are causing the system to become out of | > balance. | > | > All the best, | > Jim | > | ___________________________________________________________________________ | > Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com | > Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 | > | > | > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 drgojny@att.net wrote: | > | > > Cronic Fatigue Syndrum is A complexed syndrom -------How does one | influnce | > > complete the syndtrom????????????????????? Its a comple system | failure.The | > > answer is a complete sytem chemistry=========== What is the | > > ansewer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | > > > So eventually someone will have to invent a fluoride filter for people | who | > > > don't want the stuff in their water. My dentist coats my teeth with | it - | > > > eeeek! Madi | > > > | > > > ----- Original Message ----- | > > > From: "THMI" | > > > To: | > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:14 PM | > > > Subject: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS | > > > | > > > | > > > > | > > > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, | > > > > | > > > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message Board | > > > > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root | cause | > > > > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. | > > > | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | > > > > | > > > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have | > > > > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium in | > > > > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete Book | of | > > > > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). | > > > > | > > > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. With | > > > > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is | decreased. | > > > > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to | produce | > > > > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic | acid | > > > > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). | > > > > | > > > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing | factor. | > > > > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a | physical | > > > > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. | > > > > | > > > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water | > > > > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most | > > > > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a | > > > > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg | > > > > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of | > > > > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of | > > > > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is | comparatively | > > > > quite large in the body. | > > > > | > > > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the | implications | > > > > of the report below. | > > > > | > > > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be | unusually | > > > > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. | These | > > > > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of | calcium, | > > > > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and | kidney | > > > > problems. | > > > > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human | Services, | > > > > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease | Registry | > > > > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 | > > > > | > > > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this | stuff be | > > > > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to | have | > > > > it added to bottled water too. | > > > > | > > > > All the best, | > > > > Jim | > > > > | > > > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology | > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html | > > > > | > > > > - | > > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to | "majordomo@xmission.com" | > > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages | send | > > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > - | > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > > | > > - | > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > > | > | > | > - | > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > | | | - | To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Decreased ATP Production Date: 07 Nov 2002 19:13:40 -0700 (MST) Hi Nil, You asked "What causes the decreased ATP production"? Slides 9 - 15 in the presentation "Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology" on the website at http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html illustrates the 3 processes involved in the production of ATP, Glycolysis, The Kreb Cycle, and The Electron Transport Chain. Each of these processes is dependent upon the products produced from the process that precedes it. If there is a block in any one of the processes the end product, ATP, will not be manufactured at optimal levels. When I first started making suppositions about what may be blocking the production of ATP I started thinking lack of Oxygen at the mitochondria could interfere with the aerobic processes in the mitochondria, The Kreb Cycle and The Electron Transport Chain. But the more I studied how oxygen difuses down its concentration gradient, it did not make sense that oxygen was not being delivered to the cell. Oxygen can cross through the cell wall so it was unlikely that there was anything that could block it from entering the cell. There may be a small subset of people with FMS/CFS for which oxygen delivery is the primary block to ATP production. These are probably the few people that have been able to improve with exercise. For the majority of people with FMS/CFS, exercise will exacerbate the condition. Then I picked up on what Rich on the CFSFMExperimental group was saying about magnesium deficiency blocking the Kreb Cycle. Also the reading I was doing in "The Chemistry of Man" by Bernard Jensen pointed to that as a possibility. So one might think that supplementing magnesium should resolve the problem. On the UK site that I reference in the "SoapBox" article "Nutrient Depletion and FMS/CFS" the Dr. explains how phosphate bonding to magnesium outside the cell is preventing the magnesium from getting into the cell. He goes on to say how injected magnesium is flushed out of the system within a 24 hour period returning to extremely low levels. On slide 16 in the presentation is the following: "During intense muscle activity inorganic phosphate (Pi) accumulates in the cell. A reduced pH will increase the dipronated form of Pi (H2PO4-), and this has been shown to be particularly effective in inhibiting muscle force development during muscle fatigue." Cell Physiology Source Book, Edited by Nicholas Sperilakis, Academic Press 1995. pg. 221 I suspect that it is this inorganic phosphate that is being increased in the reduced pH state of the cell that is binding with magnesium preventing its entry into the cell. Without magnesium for the Kreb Cycle, the cell relies heavily upon glycolysis for the production of energy (ATP). The problem with this is that a product of glycolysis, pyruvic acid, further contributes to reducing the pH level within the cell. This may lead to increasing inorganic phosphates which further block magnesium from getting into the cell. (kind of a catch-22 situation.) If you are familiar with Dr. St Amand's guaifenesin protocol, He recommends the use of guaifenesin to expel inorganic phosphates from the body. Some people have reported improvement following this approach, but it is a slow process and requires strict adherance to recommended diet. My thinking is that if the cellular pH is increased then intracellular production of inorganic phosphates will slow. In time the blocking of magnesium from getting into the cell will abate. Once magnesium is again supplied for the Kreb Cycle, then ATP production will return to normal. If you look at the nutritional analysis of the person whose data is presented in the "SoapBox" article, it shows magnesium levels as being extremely low, also note that pantothenic acid is extremely low. Pantothenic acid is also required in the intermediate process in the mitochondria that changes pyruvate into Acetyl Co-A for use in the Kreb Cycle. (this is shown in the illustration on slide #12) So for this particular person pantothenic acid deficiency could be preventing ATP production. The nutritional analysis shown is unique to the individual but I suspect that most people with FMS/CFS if tested, would show very similar nutrient deficiencies. The low B vitamins and low sodium causing low levels of hydrochloric acid. Then low hydrochloric acid levels are responsible for low absorption of other vitamins and minerals. According to Bernard Jensen, sodium helps to keep calcium and magnesium in solution in the blood. Maybe with an increase in sodium levels the magnesium will not flush out of the system so quickly. Anyway, I hope that this explanation has given you a little better understanding of what may be going on. With the use of the FIR heaters for a regular sauna, the goal is to increase metabolism so the cell can make a little more ATP and restore the tissue to a more alkaline pH condition. The perspiration will also take some of the load off the liver. Eventually the tissue will get to a state where it is no longer blocking magnesium and other nutrients from entering the cell and metabolism will return to normal. (At least that is what I think will happen.) Then when you are feeling better and you tell others that you had FMS and are now better they will tell you that if you got better it is only proof that you must have been misdiagnosed. :-) (excuse the sarcasm) All the best, Jim ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Yildiz wrote: > Hi Jim, > > Do you have any idea on what causes decreased ATP production? > Thanks. > Nil > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Madi > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:40 AM > Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS > > > | I had post partum depression which seems to be caused by an adrenal let > down > | after a baby is born. At least, I have read words to that effect and it > | seemed true in my situation. Madi > | > | ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "THMI" > | To: > | Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:18 PM > | Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS > | > | > | > > | > I agree that FMS/CFS is a complex syndrome that is the result of > multiple > | > system failures but I believe that many of the failing systems are > | > secondary to decreased metabolism, due to blockage in the mitochondria. > | > > | > As one example, with decreased production of ATP, the body is unable to > | > maintain desired temperature. With the drop in temperature the adrenals > | > pump epinephrine and norephinephrine into the system. These hormones > | > signal the system to reduce blood flow to the extremities > | > (vasoconstriction) to preserve operating temperature for the internal > | > organs and to signal the increase of metabolism. The problem is that > due > | > to the mitochondrial blockage the cell cannot produce the energy needed. > | > The adrenals were not designed to have to produce its hormones 24 hours > a > | > day 7 days a week. In time the person experiences adrenal weakness or > | > failure. > | > > | > A similar thing is going on with the thyroid. It's pumping out hormones > | > telling the system to increase metabolism. Same problem, due to > | > mitochondrial blockage, the cells cannot produce the energy they need. > | > In time that system becomes exhausted. > | > > | > The purpose of the FIR heater is to help elevate the bodies temperature > to > | > increase metabolism. Over a period of time with regular sauna use, the > | > goal is to "ungum" the works is acheived. > | > > | > I suspect that the system is gummed up due to lowered cellular pH from > the > | > increased dependence on glycolysis for energy production. Per > information > | > in the "Cell Physiology Sourcebook" in a decreased pH environment the > cell > | > produces more inorganic phosphates. (Note: Dr. St Amands' approach to > CFS > | > is to use Guaifenisen to expel inorganic phosphates) According to the > UK > | > site the Dr. says inorganic phosphates are binding with magnesium > | > preventing it from entering the cell. Without magnesium the kreb cycle > | > will not function, hence the mitochondrial block preventing energy > | > production. > | > > | > The approach I suggest focuses on increasing energy. This will restore > | > correct pH to the cell and the cell will quit over producing inorganic > | > phosphates. In time the system returns to normal. > | > > | > You are correct about it being a system wide problem. Balance to the > | > entire system must be restored, most of which is accomplished by > | > addressing the specific areas that are causing the system to become out > of > | > balance. > | > > | > All the best, > | > Jim > | > > | > ___________________________________________________________________________ > | > Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com > | > Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 > | > > | > > | > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 drgojny@att.net wrote: > | > > | > > Cronic Fatigue Syndrum is A complexed syndrom -------How does one > | influnce > | > > complete the syndtrom????????????????????? Its a comple system > | failure.The > | > > answer is a complete sytem chemistry=========== What is the > | > > ansewer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > | > > > So eventually someone will have to invent a fluoride filter for > people > | who > | > > > don't want the stuff in their water. My dentist coats my teeth > with > | it - > | > > > eeeek! Madi > | > > > > | > > > ----- Original Message ----- > | > > > From: "THMI" > | > > > To: > | > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:14 PM > | > > > Subject: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS > | > > > > | > > > > | > > > > > | > > > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > | > > > > > | > > > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message > Board > | > > > > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root > | cause > | > > > > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. > | > > > > | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | > > > > > | > > > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have > | > > > > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium > in > | > > > > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete > Book > | of > | > > > > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). > | > > > > > | > > > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. > With > | > > > > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is > | decreased. > | > > > > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to > | produce > | > > > > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic > | acid > | > > > > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). > | > > > > > | > > > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing > | factor. > | > > > > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a > | physical > | > > > > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. > | > > > > > | > > > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water > | > > > > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most > | > > > > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a > | > > > > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg > | > > > > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of > | > > > > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of > | > > > > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is > | comparatively > | > > > > quite large in the body. > | > > > > > | > > > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the > | implications > | > > > > of the report below. > | > > > > > | > > > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be > | unusually > | > > > > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. > | These > | > > > > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of > | calcium, > | > > > > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and > | kidney > | > > > > problems. > | > > > > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human > | Services, > | > > > > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease > | Registry > | > > > > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 > | > > > > > | > > > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this > | stuff be > | > > > > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to > | have > | > > > > it added to bottled water too. > | > > > > > | > > > > All the best, > | > > > > Jim > | > > > > > | > > > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology > | > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html > | > > > > > | > > > > - > | > > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to > | "majordomo@xmission.com" > | > > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > | > > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages > | send > | > > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > | > > > > > | > > > > | > > > > | > > > - > | > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to > "majordomo@xmission.com" > | > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > | > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages > send > | > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > | > > > | > > - > | > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > | > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > | > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > | > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > | > > > | > > | > > | > - > | > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > | > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > | > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > | > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > | > > | > | > | - > | To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > | with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > | For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > | "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yildiz" Subject: Ynt: (thmi-fms) Decreased ATP Production Date: 10 Nov 2002 19:58:16 +0200 Jim, Thanks for the answer..This is still kind of complicated for me to understand.I am really trying to find the root cause. I mean if mag is deficient why?Where the problem comes from? Brain? Adrenals? Seems like we will continue searching for the answer. Thanks very much. Best luck! Nil ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 4:13 AM | | Hi Nil, | | You asked "What causes the decreased ATP production"? | | Slides 9 - 15 in the presentation "Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology" | on the website at http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html | illustrates the 3 processes involved in the production of ATP, Glycolysis, | The Kreb Cycle, and The Electron Transport Chain. Each of these processes | is dependent upon the products produced from the process that precedes it. | If there is a block in any one of the processes the end product, ATP, | will not be manufactured at optimal levels. | | When I first started making suppositions about what may be blocking the | production of ATP I started thinking lack of Oxygen at the mitochondria | could interfere with the aerobic processes in the mitochondria, The Kreb | Cycle and The Electron Transport Chain. But the more I studied how oxygen | difuses down its concentration gradient, it did not make sense that oxygen | was not being delivered to the cell. Oxygen can cross through the cell | wall so it was unlikely that there was anything that could block it from | entering the cell. | | There may be a small subset of people with FMS/CFS for which oxygen | delivery is the primary block to ATP production. These are probably the | few people that have been able to improve with exercise. For the majority | of people with FMS/CFS, exercise will exacerbate the condition. | | Then I picked up on what Rich on the CFSFMExperimental group was saying | about magnesium deficiency blocking the Kreb Cycle. Also the reading I | was doing in "The Chemistry of Man" by Bernard Jensen pointed to that as | a possibility. So one might think that supplementing magnesium should | resolve the problem. | | On the UK site that I reference in the "SoapBox" article "Nutrient | Depletion and FMS/CFS" the Dr. explains how phosphate bonding to magnesium | outside the cell is preventing the magnesium from getting into the cell. | He goes on to say how injected magnesium is flushed out of the system | within a 24 hour period returning to extremely low levels. | | On slide 16 in the presentation is the following: "During intense muscle | activity inorganic phosphate (Pi) accumulates in the cell. A reduced pH | will increase the dipronated form of Pi (H2PO4-), and this has been shown | to be particularly effective in inhibiting muscle force development during | muscle fatigue." Cell Physiology Source Book, Edited by Nicholas | Sperilakis, Academic Press 1995. pg. 221 | | I suspect that it is this inorganic phosphate that is being increased in | the reduced pH state of the cell that is binding with magnesium preventing | its entry into the cell. | | Without magnesium for the Kreb Cycle, the cell relies heavily upon | glycolysis for the production of energy (ATP). The problem with this is | that a product of glycolysis, pyruvic acid, further contributes to | reducing the pH level within the cell. This may lead to increasing | inorganic phosphates which further block magnesium from getting into | the cell. (kind of a catch-22 situation.) | | If you are familiar with Dr. St Amand's guaifenesin protocol, He | recommends the use of guaifenesin to expel inorganic phosphates from the | body. Some people have reported improvement following this approach, but | it is a slow process and requires strict adherance to recommended diet. | | My thinking is that if the cellular pH is increased then intracellular | production of inorganic phosphates will slow. In time the blocking of | magnesium from getting into the cell will abate. Once magnesium is again | supplied for the Kreb Cycle, then ATP production will return to normal. | | If you look at the nutritional analysis of the person whose data is | presented in the "SoapBox" article, it shows magnesium levels as being | extremely low, also note that pantothenic acid is extremely low. | Pantothenic acid is also required in the intermediate process in the | mitochondria that changes pyruvate into Acetyl Co-A for use in the Kreb | Cycle. (this is shown in the illustration on slide #12) So for this | particular person pantothenic acid deficiency could be preventing ATP | production. | | The nutritional analysis shown is unique to the individual but I suspect | that most people with FMS/CFS if tested, would show very similar nutrient | deficiencies. The low B vitamins and low sodium causing low levels of | hydrochloric acid. Then low hydrochloric acid levels are responsible for | low absorption of other vitamins and minerals. | | According to Bernard Jensen, sodium helps to keep calcium and magnesium in | solution in the blood. Maybe with an increase in sodium levels the | magnesium will not flush out of the system so quickly. | | Anyway, I hope that this explanation has given you a little better | understanding of what may be going on. With the use of the FIR heaters | for a regular sauna, the goal is to increase metabolism so the cell can | make a little more ATP and restore the tissue to a more alkaline pH | condition. The perspiration will also take some of the load off the | liver. Eventually the tissue will get to a state where it is no longer | blocking magnesium and other nutrients from entering the cell and | metabolism will return to normal. (At least that is what I think will | happen.) | | Then when you are feeling better and you tell others that you had FMS and | are now better they will tell you that if you got better it is only proof | that you must have been misdiagnosed. :-) (excuse the sarcasm) | | All the best, | Jim | ___________________________________________________________________________ | Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com | Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 | | | On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Yildiz wrote: | | > Hi Jim, | > | > Do you have any idea on what causes decreased ATP production? | > Thanks. | > Nil | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: Madi | > To: | > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:40 AM | > Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS | > | > | > | I had post partum depression which seems to be caused by an adrenal let | > down | > | after a baby is born. At least, I have read words to that effect and it | > | seemed true in my situation. Madi | > | | > | ----- Original Message ----- | > | From: "THMI" | > | To: | > | Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:18 PM | > | Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS | > | | > | | > | > | > | > I agree that FMS/CFS is a complex syndrome that is the result of | > multiple | > | > system failures but I believe that many of the failing systems are | > | > secondary to decreased metabolism, due to blockage in the mitochondria. | > | > | > | > As one example, with decreased production of ATP, the body is unable to | > | > maintain desired temperature. With the drop in temperature the adrenals | > | > pump epinephrine and norephinephrine into the system. These hormones | > | > signal the system to reduce blood flow to the extremities | > | > (vasoconstriction) to preserve operating temperature for the internal | > | > organs and to signal the increase of metabolism. The problem is that | > due | > | > to the mitochondrial blockage the cell cannot produce the energy needed. | > | > The adrenals were not designed to have to produce its hormones 24 hours | > a | > | > day 7 days a week. In time the person experiences adrenal weakness or | > | > failure. | > | > | > | > A similar thing is going on with the thyroid. It's pumping out hormones | > | > telling the system to increase metabolism. Same problem, due to | > | > mitochondrial blockage, the cells cannot produce the energy they need. | > | > In time that system becomes exhausted. | > | > | > | > The purpose of the FIR heater is to help elevate the bodies temperature | > to | > | > increase metabolism. Over a period of time with regular sauna use, the | > | > goal is to "ungum" the works is acheived. | > | > | > | > I suspect that the system is gummed up due to lowered cellular pH from | > the | > | > increased dependence on glycolysis for energy production. Per | > information | > | > in the "Cell Physiology Sourcebook" in a decreased pH environment the | > cell | > | > produces more inorganic phosphates. (Note: Dr. St Amands' approach to | > CFS | > | > is to use Guaifenisen to expel inorganic phosphates) According to the | > UK | > | > site the Dr. says inorganic phosphates are binding with magnesium | > | > preventing it from entering the cell. Without magnesium the kreb cycle | > | > will not function, hence the mitochondrial block preventing energy | > | > production. | > | > | > | > The approach I suggest focuses on increasing energy. This will restore | > | > correct pH to the cell and the cell will quit over producing inorganic | > | > phosphates. In time the system returns to normal. | > | > | > | > You are correct about it being a system wide problem. Balance to the | > | > entire system must be restored, most of which is accomplished by | > | > addressing the specific areas that are causing the system to become out | > of | > | > balance. | > | > | > | > All the best, | > | > Jim | > | > | > | | > ___________________________________________________________________________ | > | > Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com | > | > Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 | > | > | > | > | > | > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 drgojny@att.net wrote: | > | > | > | > > Cronic Fatigue Syndrum is A complexed syndrom -------How does one | > | influnce | > | > > complete the syndtrom????????????????????? Its a comple system | > | failure.The | > | > > answer is a complete sytem chemistry=========== What is the | > | > > ansewer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | > | > > > So eventually someone will have to invent a fluoride filter for | > people | > | who | > | > > > don't want the stuff in their water. My dentist coats my teeth | > with | > | it - | > | > > > eeeek! Madi | > | > > > | > | > > > ----- Original Message ----- | > | > > > From: "THMI" | > | > > > To: | > | > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:14 PM | > | > > > Subject: (thmi-fms) Fluoride and FMS/CFS | > | > > > | > | > > > | > | > > > > | > | > > > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, | > | > > > > | > | > > > > The following is a post that I put on the the Co-Cure Message | > Board | > | > > > > responding to a persons suggestion that fluoride may be the root | > | cause | > | > > > > of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. | > | > > > | > | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | > | > > > > | > | > > > > For a subset of people suffering from FMS/CFS, fluoride may have | > | > > > > contributed greatly to the onset. Fluoride bonds with magnesium | > in | > | > > > > the blood, into the insoluble magnesium fluoride (The Complete | > Book | > | of | > | > > > > Minerals for Health, pg. 99). | > | > > > > | > | > > > > Magnesium is required for the kreb cycle to function properly. | > With | > | > > > > decreased functioning of the kreb cycle, energy production is | > | decreased. | > | > > > > A greater reliance upon the anaerobic process of glycolysis to | > | produce | > | > > > > energy is called upon. As a result the tissue builds up pyruvic | > | acid | > | > > > > (in FMS) or lactic acid (in CFS). | > | > > > > | > | > > > > For some people with FMS/CFS fluoride was likely a contributing | > | factor. | > | > > > > For others it may have been high stress or antibiotics, or a | > | physical | > | > > > > or emotional trauma that upset the balance of things. | > | > > > > | > | > > > > Back to fluoride for a last comment. Many municiple water | > | > > > > supplies fluoridate water at 1 ppm (part per million). Most | > | > > > > people think that that this is a very diluted level. But if a | > | > > > > person drinks 1 liter of water per day they are consuming 1 mg | > | > > > > of fluoride. Compare that with the normal blood level of | > | > > > > vitamin B12 which is about 500 pcg (pico grams or billionths of | > | > > > > a gram). So, what may sound like a very small amount is | > | comparatively | > | > > > > quite large in the body. | > | > > > > | > | > > > > Everyone with FMS/CFS is low in magnesium. Now consider the | > | implications | > | > > > > of the report below. | > | > > > > | > | > > > > Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be | > | unusually | > | > > > > susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride and its compounds. | > | These | > | > > > > populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of | > | calcium, | > | > > > > magnesium, and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and | > | kidney | > | > > > > problems. | > | > > > > A Toxicological Profile by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human | > | Services, | > | > > > > Public Health Service, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease | > | Registry | > | > > > > (ATSDR) TP-91/17, Page 112, Sec. 2.7 (Health Impacts), April 1993 | > | > > > > | > | > > > > You would think that people would know better than to vote this | > | stuff be | > | > > > > added to our drinking water. I understand there are pressures to | > | have | > | > > > > it added to bottled water too. | > | > > > > | > | > > > > All the best, | > | > > > > Jim | > | > > > > | > | > > > > Fibromyalgia: A Hypothesis of Etiology | > | > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html | > | > > > > | > | > > > > - | > | > > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to | > | "majordomo@xmission.com" | > | > > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > | > > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages | > | send | > | > > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > | > > > > | > | > > > | > | > > > | > | > > > - | > | > > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to | > "majordomo@xmission.com" | > | > > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > | > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages | > send | > | > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > | > > | > | > > - | > | > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | > | > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > | > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | > | > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > - | > | > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | > | > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > | > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | > | > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > | > | > | | > | | > | - | > | To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | > | with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > | For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | > | "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > | > | > - | > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. | > | | | - | To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" | with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. | For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send | "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Jones" Subject: (thmi-fms) Root Cause of CFS/FMS Date: 10 Nov 2002 13:43:43 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) --------------Boundary-00=_VOIDRN00000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_VOIDMY50000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_VOIDMY50000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim et all,=0D =0D Thought you might enjoy another opinion regarding "root causes" for CFS/F= MS. I'm enjoying your research and info Jim. Thanks for sharing.=0D =0D Blessings,=0D ~ron~=0D =0D http://www.cfspages.com/chelation.html=0D =0D The Root Cause of CFS/FMS Is Typically "Bad" Molecules=0D =0D CFS/FMS is typically caused by "bad" molecules that bind to good molecule= s inside the body and subsequently inhibit their function. Sounds simple? I= t is very simple conceptually. However, there are many bad and many good molecules, and tracking them is hard work. This is not for the faint of heart. We define "bad molecule" rather loosely as a molecule that can tak= e an internal biochemical system down. The good molecules typically involve= :=0D =0D * enzymes (chemical that converts one chemical to another chemical)=0D * neurotransmitters (sends a message from one nerve to another)=0D * neurotransmitter receptors (the area of a nerve that receives message)=0D * hormones (chemical used to control a processes within the body)=0D * cofactors (ingredient used to make a chemical)=0D * cells in the immune system (when these go down; bacteria, virus, and fu= ngi go up)=0D * cells and parts of cells such as the cell membrane and mitochondria=0D =0D The bad molecules are typically:=0D =0D * heavy metals such as lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel, silver, tin and barium=0D * natural and synthetic chemicals and poisons (e.g. carbon monoxide, drug= s)=0D * pesticides (e.g. DDT)=0D * natural toxins such as H2S (i.e. hydrogen sulfide, that results when fu= ngi and bad bacteria in gut ferment sugar).=0D * toxins resulting from natural waste products produced by the body that = are not filtered out properly (e.g. free radicals that cause "oxidation" of=20 good" molecules).=0D =0D Damage to enzymes due to bad molecules is a MAJOR issue since enzymes are used to regulate and synthesize MANY processes in the body. If a tiny bad molecule binds to a big enzyme molecule, it can take it down. Enzymes hav= e a defense system to guard against this from occurring (e.g. thiols), yet if those defenses go down for a short period of time, the enzyme can go down= , and sometimes permanently. Enzymatic damage is a BIG issue with CFS/FMS.=0D =0D Problems caused by genes (i.e. a pathology that runs in a family) are similar. Each gene produces a protein (all genes do this). And a bad gene (one that messes you up) typically binds to something good and alters its function, in a manner similar to that which is done by a bad molecule suc= h as a heavy metal or a pesticide. =0D =0D =0D Systems That Go Down Because of Bad Molecules=0D =0D We begin with bad molecules that goof good molecules. These good molecule= s implement important systems in the body, and when these support molecules= go down, the system goes down.=0D =0D Below is a short list of systems that can go down, due to bad molecules. = =0D =0D * ATP energy generation impairments=0D * noradrenaline brain neurotransmitter disregulation=0D * sulfite sensitivity due to impair sulfite oxidase=0D * sugar regulation (hypoglycemia)=0D * digestive system=0D * immunity system=0D * fungi defense system=0D * thyroid regulation=0D * adrenal gland regulations=0D =0D Neurological and Metabolic fatigue=0D There are two big systems that involve fatigue. One is the NA/Dopamine neurotransmitter communication system. When this goes down, one experienc= es=20 Neurological" fatigue. Another system is that which produces ATP energy i= n the body. When this goes down, one experiences "Metabolic" fatigue. The customer of these molecules may not be able to differentiate where the fatigue is coming from unless they test for specific inhibited processes. All they know is the are tired and do not feel right.=0D =0D Fatigue Vs. Time Over 24hrs=0D A big issue is how one feels over the course of a day. If they feel good during part of the day, this is a huge clue in itself. Also, it is encouraging, since it proves that body does have what it takes to feel go= od. If this is the case, one can try to correlate this with a biochemical parameter in the body to get a better idea as to the specific pathology. = For example, if feeling good is proportional to blood sugar level, then sugar regulation is a major issue. If one is tired during the day and their Melatonin (hormone that puts one into the sleep state) is on at that time= , which it should not be, then Melatonin regulation may be a major issue. I= f one feels tired after eating foods (such as sugar, fast carbo, meat) that ferment in the gut to produce a gas which inhibits ATP energy synthesis, then gut ecology is a major issue. Have you ever wondered what is in that gas that you pass after eating? It is often not oxygen.=0D =0D Get To Know Your Fatigue=0D As you battle your fatigue, you must become acutely aware of how it chang= es over time, how it responds to medications, and how a pathology on a test = is related. Ideally, you want to know exactly where the fatigue is coming fr= om, in addition to understanding the host of other pathologies that you find = in your tests that are adversely affecting your body.=0D =0D =0D Some Examples=0D =0D At the 1999 Sydney CFS Research Conference (please see REFERENCE #15 for details), it was found that folks with CFS tend to have high levels of tyrosine (p<0.04) and 3-methyl histidine (p<0.03) in urine. This could be caused by impairment of the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme. If this enzyme d= oes not use the tyrosine, tyrosine gets dumped into the urine. What could cau= se this? Bad molecules such as mercury, excess methionine, and H2S, and SO3 (these are poisons) that bind to tyrosine hydroxylase. The study also fou= nd that folks with CFS typically have low levels of succinic acid (p<0.0003)= in urine. What could cause this? Anything that impairs succinate synthesis, which could be anything that depletes magnesium and/or anything that depletes succinyl-CoASh. What can do this? Bad molecules such as mercury. What happens when tyrosine goes down? The noradrenaline neurotransmitter goes down. What happens when the noradrenaline neurotransmitter goes down= ? Many things, including the regulation of energy in the body, which can result in fatigue. How does one test for this? They can increase their noradrenaline with an Rx drug for a short period of time, and see if they feel better.=0D =0D Bad Molecules and Good Molecules -- it is that simple.=0D =0D =2E.........snip ............=0D =0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_VOIDMY50000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0A =20
Hi Jim et all,
 
Thought you might enjoy another opinion regarding "root causes= " for=20 CFS/FMS. I'm enjoying your research and info Jim. Thanks for=20 sharing.
 
Blessings,
~ron~

http://www.cfspages= =2Ecom/chelation.html
 
The Root Cause of CFS/FMS Is Typically = "Bad"=20 Molecules

CFS/FMS is typically caused by "bad" mole= cules=20 that bind to good molecules inside the body and subsequently inhibi= t their=20 function. Sounds simple? It is very simple conceptually. However, t= here=20 are many bad and many good molecules, and tracking them is hard wor= k. This=20 is not for the faint of heart. We define "bad molecule" rather loos= ely as=20 a molecule that can take an internal biochemical system down. The g= ood=20 molecules typically involve:

* enzymes (chemical that conver= ts one=20 chemical to another chemical)
* neurotransmitters (sends a messa= ge from=20 one nerve to another)
* neurotransmitter receptors (the area of = a nerve=20 that receives message)
* hormones (chemical used to control a pr= ocesses=20 within the body)
* cofactors (ingredient used to make a chemical= )
*=20 cells in the immune system (when these go down; bacteria, virus, an= d fungi=20 go up)
* cells and parts of cells such as the cell membrane and=20 mitochondria

The bad=20 molecules are typically:

* heavy metals such as lead, mercur= y,=20 cadmium, nickel, silver, tin and barium
* natural and synthetic=20 chemicals and poisons (e.g. carbon monoxide, drugs)
* pesticides= (e.g.=20 DDT)
* natural toxins such as H2S= (i.e. hydrogen sulfide, that results when fungi and bad b= acteria=20 in gut ferment sugar).
* toxins resulting from natural waste pro= ducts=20 produced by the body that are not filtered out properly (e.g. free=20 radicals that cause "oxidation" of "good" molecules).

Damage= to=20 enzymes due to bad molecules is a MAJOR issue since enzymes are use= d to=20 regulate and synthesize MANY processes in the body. If a tiny bad m= olecule=20 binds to a big enzyme molecule, it can take it down. Enzymes have a= =20 defense system to guard against this from occurring (e.g. thiols), = yet if=20 those defenses go down for a short period of time, the enzyme can g= o down,=20 and sometimes permanently. Enzymatic damage is a BIG issue with=20 CFS/FMS.

Problems caused by genes (i.e. a pathology that run= s in a=20 family) are similar. Each gene produces a protein (all genes do thi= s). And=20 a bad gene (one that messes you up) typically binds to something go= od and=20 alters its function, in a manner similar to that which is done by a= bad=20 molecule such as a heavy metal or a pesticide.


Systems That Go Down Beca= use of Bad=20 Molecules

We begin with bad molecules that goof good mol= ecules.=20 These good molecules implement important systems in the body, and w= hen=20 these support molecules go down, the system goes down.

Below= is a=20 short list of systems that can go down, due to bad molecules.
<= BR>*=20 ATP energy generation impairments
* noradrenaline brain=20 neurotransmitter disregulation
* sulfite sensitivity due to impa= ir=20 sulfite oxidase
* sugar regulation (hypoglycemia)
* digestive= =20 system
* immunity system
* fungi defense system
* thyroid=20 regulation
* adrenal gland regulations

Neurological and Metabolic fatigue
There are two= big=20 systems that involve fatigue. One is the NA/Dopamine neurotransmitt= er=20 communication system. When this goes down, one experiences "Neurolo= gical"=20 fatigue. Another system is that which produces ATP energy in the bo= dy.=20 When this goes down, one experiences "Metabolic" fatigue. The custo= mer of=20 these molecules may not be able to differentiate where the fatigue = is=20 coming from unless they test for specific inhibited processes. All = they=20 know is the are tired and do not feel right.

Fatigue Vs. = Time=20 Over 24hrs
A big issue is how one feels over the course of a= day.=20 If they feel good during part of the day, this is a huge clue in it= self.=20 Also, it is encouraging, since it proves that body does have what i= t takes=20 to feel good. If this is the case, one can try to correlate this wi= th a=20 biochemical parameter in the body to get a better idea as to the sp= ecific=20 pathology. For example, if feeling good is proportional to blood su= gar=20 level, then sugar regulation is a major issue. If one is tired duri= ng the=20 day and their Melatonin (hormone that puts one into the sleep state= ) is on=20 at that time, which it should not be, then Melatonin regulation may= be a=20 major issue. If one feels tired after eating foods (such as sugar, = fast=20 carbo, meat) that ferment in the gut to produce a gas which inhibit= s ATP=20 energy synthesis, then gut ecology is a major issue. Have you ever=20 wondered what is in that gas that you pass after eating? It is ofte= n not=20 oxygen.

Get To Know Your FatigueAs=20 you battle your fatigue, you must become acutely aware of how it ch= anges=20 over time, how it responds to medications, and how a pathology on a= test=20 is related. Ideally, you want to know exactly where the fatigue is = coming=20 from, in addition to understanding the host of other pathologies th= at you=20 find in your tests that are adversely affecting your body.

<= IMG=20 height=3D4 src=3D"images/RedLine" width=3D429>
Some Examples<= /B>

At=20 the 1999 Sydney CFS Research Conference (please see REFERENCE=20 #15 for details), it was found that folks= with CFS=20 tend to have high levels of tyrosine (p<0.04) and 3-methyl histi= dine=20 (p<0.03) in urine. This could be caused by impairment of the tyr= osine=20 hydroxylase enzyme. If this enzyme does not use the tyrosine, tyros= ine=20 gets dumped into the urine. What could cause this? Bad molecules su= ch as=20 mercury, excess methionine, and H2S, and SO3 (t= hese are=20 poisons) that bind to tyrosine hydroxylase. The study also found th= at=20 folks with CFS typically have low levels of succinic acid (p<0.0= 003) in=20 urine. What could cause this? Anything that impairs succinate synth= esis,=20 which could be anything that depletes magnesium and/or anything tha= t=20 depletes succinyl-CoASh. What can do this? Bad molecules such as me= rcury.=20 What happens when tyrosine goes down? The noradrenaline neurotransm= itter=20 goes down. What happens when the noradrenaline neurotransmitter goe= s down?=20 Many things, including the regulation of energy in the body, which = can=20 result in fatigue. How does one test for this? They can increase th= eir=20 noradrenaline with an Rx drug for a short period of time, and see i= f they=20 feel better.

Bad Molecules and Good Molecules -- it is that=20 simple.

..........snip ............


.
=20
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -=20 Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_VOIDMY50000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_VOIDRN00000000000000 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <7A254353-E9F4-44F6-85B9-4256B8829614> R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE CRQACAAsAgABABAADQAABEoQIUOrpXIOwrsPxiQUheeRAgUA49YNhbCqK1kS9grQhXGAhsDBUJgZ AL2Dcqkk7ogFpvRAokSn0p4PO6UIuUsQggSmFjKXdAgRAQAh+QQFCgAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEEhDJ Sau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oBAAh+QQJFAAIACwCAAEAEAANAAAEShAhQ6ulcg7Cuw/GJBSF55ECBQDj 1g2FsKorWRL2CtCFcYCGwMFQmBkAvYNyqSTuiAWm9ECiRKfSng87pQi5SxCCBKYWMpd0CBEBACH5 BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs= --------------Boundary-00=_VOIDRN00000000000000-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Jones" Subject: Fw: (thmi-fms) Root Cause of CFS/FMS Date: 10 Nov 2002 13:47:52 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) --------------Boundary-00=_SVIDCJD0000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_SVID7TH0000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_SVID7TH0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/index.html=0D =0D The text below from my first post belongs to the link above. Sorry about that.=0D =0D Be Well.=0D ~ron~=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D =0D Hi Jim et all,=0D =0D Thought you might enjoy another opinion regarding "root causes" for CFS/F= MS. I'm enjoying your research and info Jim. Thanks for sharing.=0D =0D Blessings,=0D ~ron~=0D =0D http://www.cfspages.com/chelation.html=0D =0D The Root Cause of CFS/FMS Is Typically "Bad" Molecules=0D =0D CFS/FMS is typically caused by "bad" molecules that bind to good molecule= s inside the body and subsequently inhibit their function. Sounds simple? I= t is very simple conceptually. However, there are many bad and many good molecules, and tracking them is hard work. This is not for the faint of heart. We define "bad molecule" rather loosely as a molecule that can tak= e an internal biochemical system down. The good molecules typically involve= :=0D =0D * enzymes (chemical that converts one chemical to another chemical)=0D * neurotransmitters (sends a message from one nerve to another)=0D * neurotransmitter receptors (the area of a nerve that receives message)=0D * hormones (chemical used to control a processes within the body)=0D * cofactors (ingredient used to make a chemical)=0D * cells in the immune system (when these go down; bacteria, virus, and fu= ngi go up)=0D * cells and parts of cells such as the cell membrane and mitochondria=0D =0D The bad molecules are typically:=0D =0D * heavy metals such as lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel, silver, tin and barium=0D * natural and synthetic chemicals and poisons (e.g. carbon monoxide, drug= s)=0D * pesticides (e.g. DDT)=0D * natural toxins such as H2S (i.e. hydrogen sulfide, that results when fu= ngi and bad bacteria in gut ferment sugar).=0D * toxins resulting from natural waste products produced by the body that = are not filtered out properly (e.g. free radicals that cause "oxidation" of=20 good" molecules).=0D =0D Damage to enzymes due to bad molecules is a MAJOR issue since enzymes are used to regulate and synthesize MANY processes in the body. If a tiny bad molecule binds to a big enzyme molecule, it can take it down. Enzymes hav= e a defense system to guard against this from occurring (e.g. thiols), yet if those defenses go down for a short period of time, the enzyme can go down= , and sometimes permanently. Enzymatic damage is a BIG issue with CFS/FMS.=0D =0D Problems caused by genes (i.e. a pathology that runs in a family) are similar. Each gene produces a protein (all genes do this). And a bad gene (one that messes you up) typically binds to something good and alters its function, in a manner similar to that which is done by a bad molecule suc= h as a heavy metal or a pesticide. =0D =0D =0D Systems That Go Down Because of Bad Molecules=0D =0D We begin with bad molecules that goof good molecules. These good molecule= s implement important systems in the body, and when these support molecules= go down, the system goes down.=0D =0D Below is a short list of systems that can go down, due to bad molecules. = =0D =0D * ATP energy generation impairments=0D * noradrenaline brain neurotransmitter disregulation=0D * sulfite sensitivity due to impair sulfite oxidase=0D * sugar regulation (hypoglycemia)=0D * digestive system=0D * immunity system=0D * fungi defense system=0D * thyroid regulation=0D * adrenal gland regulations=0D =0D Neurological and Metabolic fatigue=0D There are two big systems that involve fatigue. One is the NA/Dopamine neurotransmitter communication system. When this goes down, one experienc= es=20 Neurological" fatigue. Another system is that which produces ATP energy i= n the body. When this goes down, one experiences "Metabolic" fatigue. The customer of these molecules may not be able to differentiate where the fatigue is coming from unless they test for specific inhibited processes. All they know is the are tired and do not feel right.=0D =0D Fatigue Vs. Time Over 24hrs=0D A big issue is how one feels over the course of a day. If they feel good during part of the day, this is a huge clue in itself. Also, it is encouraging, since it proves that body does have what it takes to feel go= od. If this is the case, one can try to correlate this with a biochemical parameter in the body to get a better idea as to the specific pathology. = For example, if feeling good is proportional to blood sugar level, then sugar regulation is a major issue. If one is tired during the day and their Melatonin (hormone that puts one into the sleep state) is on at that time= , which it should not be, then Melatonin regulation may be a major issue. I= f one feels tired after eating foods (such as sugar, fast carbo, meat) that ferment in the gut to produce a gas which inhibits ATP energy synthesis, then gut ecology is a major issue. Have you ever wondered what is in that gas that you pass after eating? It is often not oxygen.=0D =0D Get To Know Your Fatigue=0D As you battle your fatigue, you must become acutely aware of how it chang= es over time, how it responds to medications, and how a pathology on a test = is related. Ideally, you want to know exactly where the fatigue is coming fr= om, in addition to understanding the host of other pathologies that you find = in your tests that are adversely affecting your body.=0D =0D =0D Some Examples=0D =0D At the 1999 Sydney CFS Research Conference (please see REFERENCE #15 for details), it was found that folks with CFS tend to have high levels of tyrosine (p<0.04) and 3-methyl histidine (p<0.03) in urine. This could be caused by impairment of the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme. If this enzyme d= oes not use the tyrosine, tyrosine gets dumped into the urine. What could cau= se this? Bad molecules such as mercury, excess methionine, and H2S, and SO3 (these are poisons) that bind to tyrosine hydroxylase. The study also fou= nd that folks with CFS typically have low levels of succinic acid (p<0.0003)= in urine. What could cause this? Anything that impairs succinate synthesis, which could be anything that depletes magnesium and/or anything that depletes succinyl-CoASh. What can do this? Bad molecules such as mercury. What happens when tyrosine goes down? The noradrenaline neurotransmitter goes down. What happens when the noradrenaline neurotransmitter goes down= ? Many things, including the regulation of energy in the body, which can result in fatigue. How does one test for this? They can increase their noradrenaline with an Rx drug for a short period of time, and see if they feel better.=0D =0D Bad Molecules and Good Molecules -- it is that simple.=0D =0D =2E.........snip ............=0D =0D =0D =2E --------------Boundary-00=_SVID7TH0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0A =20
http://www.beatcfs= andfms.org/index.html
 
The text below from my first post belongs to the link above. S= orry=20 about that.
 
Be Well.
~ron~
 
-------Original Message-------<= /I>
 
From: thmi-fms@lists.xmission= =2Ecom
Date: Sunday= , November=20 10, 2002 01:47:47 PM
To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission= =2Ecom
Subject: (th= mi-fms)=20 Root Cause of CFS/FMS
 
Hi Jim et all,
 
Thought you might enjoy another opinion regarding "root causes= " for=20 CFS/FMS. I'm enjoying your research and info Jim. Thanks for=20 sharing.
 
Blessings,
~ron~

http://www.cfspages= =2Ecom/chelation.html
 
The Root Cause of CFS/FMS Is Typically = "Bad"=20 Molecules

CFS/FMS is typically caused by "bad" mole= cules=20 that bind to good molecules inside the body and subsequently inhibi= t their=20 function. Sounds simple? It is very simple conceptually. However, t= here=20 are many bad and many good molecules, and tracking them is hard wor= k. This=20 is not for the faint of heart. We define "bad molecule" rather loos= ely as=20 a molecule that can take an internal biochemical system down. The g= ood=20 molecules typically involve:

* enzymes (chemical that conver= ts one=20 chemical to another chemical)
* neurotransmitters (sends a messa= ge from=20 one nerve to another)
* neurotransmitter receptors (the area of = a nerve=20 that receives message)
* hormones (chemical used to control a pr= ocesses=20 within the body)
* cofactors (ingredient used to make a chemical= )
*=20 cells in the immune system (when these go down; bacteria, virus, an= d fungi=20 go up)
* cells and parts of cells such as the cell membrane and=20 mitochondria

The bad=20 molecules are typically:

* heavy metals such as lead, mercur= y,=20 cadmium, nickel, silver, tin and barium
* natural and synthetic=20 chemicals and poisons (e.g. carbon monoxide, drugs)
* pesticides= (e.g.=20 DDT)
* natural toxins such as H2S= (i.e. hydrogen sulfide, that results when fungi and bad b= acteria=20 in gut ferment sugar).
* toxins resulting from natural waste pro= ducts=20 produced by the body that are not filtered out properly (e.g. free=20 radicals that cause "oxidation" of "good" molecules).

Damage= to=20 enzymes due to bad molecules is a MAJOR issue since enzymes are use= d to=20 regulate and synthesize MANY processes in the body. If a tiny bad m= olecule=20 binds to a big enzyme molecule, it can take it down. Enzymes have a= =20 defense system to guard against this from occurring (e.g. thiols), = yet if=20 those defenses go down for a short period of time, the enzyme can g= o down,=20 and sometimes permanently. Enzymatic damage is a BIG issue with=20 CFS/FMS.

Problems caused by genes (i.e. a pathology that run= s in a=20 family) are similar. Each gene produces a protein (all genes do thi= s). And=20 a bad gene (one that messes you up) typically binds to something go= od and=20 alters its function, in a manner similar to that which is done by a= bad=20 molecule such as a heavy metal or a pesticide.


Systems That Go Down Beca= use of Bad=20 Molecules

We begin with bad molecules that goof good mol= ecules.=20 These good molecules implement important systems in the body, and w= hen=20 these support molecules go down, the system goes down.

Below= is a=20 short list of systems that can go down, due to bad molecules.
<= BR>*=20 ATP energy generation impairments
* noradrenaline brain=20 neurotransmitter disregulation
* sulfite sensitivity due to impa= ir=20 sulfite oxidase
* sugar regulation (hypoglycemia)
* digestive= =20 system
* immunity system
* fungi defense system
* thyroid=20 regulation
* adrenal gland regulations

Neurological and Metabolic fatigue
There are two= big=20 systems that involve fatigue. One is the NA/Dopamine neurotransmitt= er=20 communication system. When this goes down, one experiences "Neurolo= gical"=20 fatigue. Another system is that which produces ATP energy in the bo= dy.=20 When this goes down, one experiences "Metabolic" fatigue. The custo= mer of=20 these molecules may not be able to differentiate where the fatigue = is=20 coming from unless they test for specific inhibited processes. All = they=20 know is the are tired and do not feel right.

Fatigue Vs. = Time=20 Over 24hrs
A big issue is how one feels over the course of a= day.=20 If they feel good during part of the day, this is a huge clue in it= self.=20 Also, it is encouraging, since it proves that body does have what i= t takes=20 to feel good. If this is the case, one can try to correlate this wi= th a=20 biochemical parameter in the body to get a better idea as to the sp= ecific=20 pathology. For example, if feeling good is proportional to blood su= gar=20 level, then sugar regulation is a major issue. If one is tired duri= ng the=20 day and their Melatonin (hormone that puts one into the sleep state= ) is on=20 at that time, which it should not be, then Melatonin regulation may= be a=20 major issue. If one feels tired after eating foods (such as sugar, = fast=20 carbo, meat) that ferment in the gut to produce a gas which inhibit= s ATP=20 energy synthesis, then gut ecology is a major issue. Have you ever=20 wondered what is in that gas that you pass after eating? It is ofte= n not=20 oxygen.

Get To Know Your FatigueAs=20 you battle your fatigue, you must become acutely aware of how it ch= anges=20 over time, how it responds to medications, and how a pathology on a= test=20 is related. Ideally, you want to know exactly where the fatigue is = coming=20 from, in addition to understanding the host of other pathologies th= at you=20 find in your tests that are adversely affecting your body.

<= IMG=20 height=3D4 src=3D"images/RedLine" width=3D429>
Some Examples<= /B>

At=20 the 1999 Sydney CFS Research Conference (please see REFERENCE=20 #15 for details), it was found that folks= with CFS=20 tend to have high levels of tyrosine (p<0.04) and 3-methyl histi= dine=20 (p<0.03) in urine. This could be caused by impairment of the tyr= osine=20 hydroxylase enzyme. If this enzyme does not use the tyrosine, tyros= ine=20 gets dumped into the urine. What could cause this? Bad molecules su= ch as=20 mercury, excess methionine, and H2S, and SO3 (t= hese are=20 poisons) that bind to tyrosine hydroxylase. The study also found th= at=20 folks with CFS typically have low levels of succinic acid (p<0.0= 003) in=20 urine. What could cause this? Anything that impairs succinate synth= esis,=20 which could be anything that depletes magnesium and/or anything tha= t=20 depletes succinyl-CoASh. What can do this? Bad molecules such as me= rcury.=20 What happens when tyrosine goes down? The noradrenaline neurotransm= itter=20 goes down. What happens when the noradrenaline neurotransmitter goe= s down?=20 Many things, including the regulation of energy in the body, which = can=20 result in fatigue. How does one test for this? They can increase th= eir=20 noradrenaline with an Rx drug for a short period of time, and see i= f they=20 feel better.

Bad Molecules and Good Molecules -- it is that=20 simple.

..........snip ............


.
=20
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -=20 Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_SVID7TH0000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_SVIDCJD0000000000000 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE CRQACAAsAgABABAADQAABEoQIUOrpXIOwrsPxiQUheeRAgUA49YNhbCqK1kS9grQhXGAhsDBUJgZ AL2Dcqkk7ogFpvRAokSn0p4PO6UIuUsQggSmFjKXdAgRAQAh+QQFCgAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEEhDJ Sau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oBAAh+QQJFAAIACwCAAEAEAANAAAEShAhQ6ulcg7Cuw/GJBSF55ECBQDj 1g2FsKorWRL2CtCFcYCGwMFQmBkAvYNyqSTuiAWm9ECiRKfSng87pQi5SxCCBKYWMpd0CBEBACH5 BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs= --------------Boundary-00=_SVIDCJD0000000000000-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yildiz" Subject: Ynt: (thmi-fms) Root Cause of CFS/FMS Date: 11 Nov 2002 06:18:36 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2894A.2C58D680 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C2894A.2C58D680" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C2894A.2C58D680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank Ron, My CFS started before I had Mercury poisoning or any other toxin = exposure.Actually I believe my toxic load is due to CFS not due to any = exposure. There are many people who were exposed to toxicity and they = don't develop CFS.In this case it must be due to "bad genes"? In that = case I am wondering which bad gene?Which part of my body this bad gene = is related to?To me,It seems to be related to the brain? And this is = seems to be incurable for the time being. For the ones who have CFS due = to toxic exposure the answer may be easier. Decrease the toxic load and = get better. Actually I think the ones who have exhaustion due to toxic = exposure from outside sources don't have CFS,at all. I think what they = have is some kind of toxic exposure illness.Ones like me who have the = illness due to genetic reasons have real problem.We of course try to = decrease the toxic load and I am sure it will help but this will be a = survival technique and not cure. =20 Thanks. Nil =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ron Jones=20 To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:43 PM Subject: (thmi-fms) Root Cause of CFS/FMS=20 Hi Jim et all, Thought you might enjoy another opinion regarding "root causes" = for CFS/FMS. I'm enjoying your research and info Jim. Thanks for = sharing. Blessings, ~ron~ http://www.cfspages.com/chelation.html The Root Cause of CFS/FMS Is Typically "Bad" Molecules CFS/FMS is typically caused by "bad" molecules that bind to good = molecules inside the body and subsequently inhibit their function. = Sounds simple? It is very simple conceptually. However, there are many = bad and many good molecules, and tracking them is hard work. This is not = for the faint of heart. We define "bad molecule" rather loosely as a = molecule that can take an internal biochemical system down. The good = molecules typically involve: * enzymes (chemical that converts one chemical to another = chemical) * neurotransmitters (sends a message from one nerve to another) * neurotransmitter receptors (the area of a nerve that receives = message) * hormones (chemical used to control a processes within the = body) * cofactors (ingredient used to make a chemical) * cells in the immune system (when these go down; bacteria, = virus, and fungi go up) * cells and parts of cells such as the cell membrane and = mitochondria The bad molecules are typically: * heavy metals such as lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel, silver, = tin and barium * natural and synthetic chemicals and poisons (e.g. carbon = monoxide, drugs) * pesticides (e.g. DDT) * natural toxins such as H2S (i.e. hydrogen sulfide, that = results when fungi and bad bacteria in gut ferment sugar). * toxins resulting from natural waste products produced by the = body that are not filtered out properly (e.g. free radicals that cause = "oxidation" of "good" molecules). Damage to enzymes due to bad molecules is a MAJOR issue since = enzymes are used to regulate and synthesize MANY processes in the body. = If a tiny bad molecule binds to a big enzyme molecule, it can take it = down. Enzymes have a defense system to guard against this from occurring = (e.g. thiols), yet if those defenses go down for a short period of time, = the enzyme can go down, and sometimes permanently. Enzymatic damage is a = BIG issue with CFS/FMS. Problems caused by genes (i.e. a pathology that runs in a = family) are similar. Each gene produces a protein (all genes do this). = And a bad gene (one that messes you up) typically binds to something = good and alters its function, in a manner similar to that which is done = by a bad molecule such as a heavy metal or a pesticide.=20 Systems That Go Down Because of Bad Molecules We begin with bad molecules that goof good molecules. These good = molecules implement important systems in the body, and when these = support molecules go down, the system goes down. Below is a short list of systems that can go down, due to bad = molecules.=20 * ATP energy generation impairments * noradrenaline brain neurotransmitter disregulation * sulfite sensitivity due to impair sulfite oxidase * sugar regulation (hypoglycemia) * digestive system * immunity system * fungi defense system * thyroid regulation * adrenal gland regulations Neurological and Metabolic fatigue There are two big systems that involve fatigue. One is the = NA/Dopamine neurotransmitter communication system. When this goes down, = one experiences "Neurological" fatigue. Another system is that which = produces ATP energy in the body. When this goes down, one experiences = "Metabolic" fatigue. The customer of these molecules may not be able to = differentiate where the fatigue is coming from unless they test for = specific inhibited processes. All they know is the are tired and do not = feel right. Fatigue Vs. Time Over 24hrs A big issue is how one feels over the course of a day. If they = feel good during part of the day, this is a huge clue in itself. Also, = it is encouraging, since it proves that body does have what it takes to = feel good. If this is the case, one can try to correlate this with a = biochemical parameter in the body to get a better idea as to the = specific pathology. For example, if feeling good is proportional to = blood sugar level, then sugar regulation is a major issue. If one is = tired during the day and their Melatonin (hormone that puts one into the = sleep state) is on at that time, which it should not be, then Melatonin = regulation may be a major issue. If one feels tired after eating foods = (such as sugar, fast carbo, meat) that ferment in the gut to produce a = gas which inhibits ATP energy synthesis, then gut ecology is a major = issue. Have you ever wondered what is in that gas that you pass after = eating? It is often not oxygen. Get To Know Your Fatigue As you battle your fatigue, you must become acutely aware of how = it changes over time, how it responds to medications, and how a = pathology on a test is related. Ideally, you want to know exactly where = the fatigue is coming from, in addition to understanding the host of = other pathologies that you find in your tests that are adversely = affecting your body. Some Examples At the 1999 Sydney CFS Research Conference (please see REFERENCE = #15 for details), it was found that folks with CFS tend to have high = levels of tyrosine (p<0.04) and 3-methyl histidine (p<0.03) in urine. = This could be caused by impairment of the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme. = If this enzyme does not use the tyrosine, tyrosine gets dumped into the = urine. What could cause this? Bad molecules such as mercury, excess = methionine, and H2S, and SO3 (these are poisons) that bind to tyrosine = hydroxylase. The study also found that folks with CFS typically have low = levels of succinic acid (p<0.0003) in urine. What could cause this? = Anything that impairs succinate synthesis, which could be anything that = depletes magnesium and/or anything that depletes succinyl-CoASh. What = can do this? Bad molecules such as mercury. What happens when tyrosine = goes down? The noradrenaline neurotransmitter goes down. What happens = when the noradrenaline neurotransmitter goes down? Many things, = including the regulation of energy in the body, which can result in = fatigue. How does one test for this? They can increase their = noradrenaline with an Rx drug for a short period of time, and see if = they feel better. Bad Molecules and Good Molecules -- it is that simple. ..........snip ............ .=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C2894A.2C58D680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank = Ron,
 
My CFS = started before I=20 had Mercury poisoning or any other toxin exposure.Actually I believe my = toxic=20 load is due to CFS not due to any exposure. There are many people who = were=20 exposed to toxicity and they don't develop CFS.In this case it must be = due to=20 "bad genes"? In that case I am wondering which bad gene?Which part = of my=20 body this bad gene is related to?To me,It seems to be related to the=20 brain? And this is seems to be incurable for the time = being. For=20 the ones who have CFS due to toxic exposure the answer may be easier. = Decrease=20 the toxic load and get better. Actually I think the ones who have = exhaustion due=20 to toxic exposure from outside sources don't have CFS,at all. I = think what=20 they have is some kind of toxic exposure illness.Ones like me who have = the=20 illness due to genetic reasons have real problem.We of course = try to=20 decrease the toxic load and I am sure it will help but this will be a=20 survival technique and not cure. 
Thanks.
Nil  =
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ron=20 Jones
To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 = 8:43=20 PM
Subject: (thmi-fms) Root Cause = of CFS/FMS=20

Hi Jim et all,
 
Thought you might enjoy another opinion regarding "root = causes" for=20 CFS/FMS. I'm enjoying your research and info Jim. Thanks for=20 sharing.
 
Blessings,
~ron~

http://www.cfspages.com/c= helation.html
 
The Root Cause of CFS/FMS Is = Typically "Bad"=20 Molecules

CFS/FMS is typically caused by "bad" = molecules=20 that bind to good molecules inside the body and subsequently = inhibit=20 their function. Sounds simple? It is very simple conceptually. = However,=20 there are many bad and many good molecules, and tracking them is = hard=20 work. This is not for the faint of heart. We define "bad = molecule"=20 rather loosely as a molecule that can take an internal = biochemical=20 system down. The good molecules typically involve:

* = enzymes=20 (chemical that converts one chemical to another chemical)
*=20 neurotransmitters (sends a message from one nerve to = another)
*=20 neurotransmitter receptors (the area of a nerve that receives=20 message)
* hormones (chemical used to control a processes = within the=20 body)
* cofactors (ingredient used to make a chemical)
* = cells in=20 the immune system (when these go down; bacteria, virus, and = fungi go=20 up)
* cells and parts of cells such as the cell membrane and=20 mitochondria

The bad=20 molecules are typically:

* heavy metals such as lead, = mercury,=20 cadmium, nickel, silver, tin and barium
* natural and = synthetic=20 chemicals and poisons (e.g. carbon monoxide, drugs)
* = pesticides=20 (e.g. DDT)
* natural toxins such as H2S (i.e. hydrogen sulfide, that results when fungi and = bad bacteria=20 in gut ferment sugar).
* toxins resulting from natural waste = products=20 produced by the body that are not filtered out properly (e.g. = free=20 radicals that cause "oxidation" of "good" = molecules).

Damage to=20 enzymes due to bad molecules is a MAJOR issue since enzymes are = used to=20 regulate and synthesize MANY processes in the body. If a tiny = bad=20 molecule binds to a big enzyme molecule, it can take it down. = Enzymes=20 have a defense system to guard against this from occurring (e.g. = thiols), yet if those defenses go down for a short period of = time, the=20 enzyme can go down, and sometimes permanently. Enzymatic damage = is a BIG=20 issue with CFS/FMS.

Problems caused by genes (i.e. a = pathology=20 that runs in a family) are similar. Each gene produces a protein = (all=20 genes do this). And a bad gene (one that messes you up) = typically binds=20 to something good and alters its function, in a manner similar = to that=20 which is done by a bad molecule such as a heavy metal or a = pesticide.=20


Systems That=20 Go Down Because of Bad Molecules

We begin with bad = molecules=20 that goof good molecules. These good molecules implement = important=20 systems in the body, and when these support molecules go down, = the=20 system goes down.

Below is a short list of systems that = can go=20 down, due to bad molecules.

* ATP energy generation=20 impairments
* noradrenaline brain neurotransmitter = disregulation
*=20 sulfite sensitivity due to impair sulfite oxidase
* sugar = regulation=20 (hypoglycemia)
* digestive system
* immunity system
* = fungi=20 defense system
* thyroid regulation
* adrenal gland=20 regulations

Neurological and = Metabolic=20 fatigue
There are two big systems that involve fatigue. = One is=20 the NA/Dopamine neurotransmitter communication system. When this = goes=20 down, one experiences "Neurological" fatigue. Another system is = that=20 which produces ATP energy in the body. When this goes down, one=20 experiences "Metabolic" fatigue. The customer of these molecules = may not=20 be able to differentiate where the fatigue is coming from unless = they=20 test for specific inhibited processes. All they know is the are = tired=20 and do not feel right.

Fatigue Vs. Time Over = 24hrs
A=20 big issue is how one feels over the course of a day. If they = feel good=20 during part of the day, this is a huge clue in itself. Also, it = is=20 encouraging, since it proves that body does have what it takes = to feel=20 good. If this is the case, one can try to correlate this with a=20 biochemical parameter in the body to get a better idea as to the = specific pathology. For example, if feeling good is proportional = to=20 blood sugar level, then sugar regulation is a major issue. If = one is=20 tired during the day and their Melatonin (hormone that puts one = into the=20 sleep state) is on at that time, which it should not be, then = Melatonin=20 regulation may be a major issue. If one feels tired after eating = foods=20 (such as sugar, fast carbo, meat) that ferment in the gut to = produce a=20 gas which inhibits ATP energy synthesis, then gut ecology is a = major=20 issue. Have you ever wondered what is in that gas that you pass = after=20 eating? It is often not oxygen.

Get To=20 Know Your Fatigue
As you battle your fatigue, you must = become=20 acutely aware of how it changes over time, how it responds to=20 medications, and how a pathology on a test is related. Ideally, = you want=20 to know exactly where the fatigue is coming from, in addition to = understanding the host of other pathologies that you find in = your tests=20 that are adversely affecting your body.


Some = Examples

At the=20 1999 Sydney CFS Research Conference (please see REFERENCE=20 #15 for details), it was found that = folks with=20 CFS tend to have high levels of tyrosine (p<0.04) and = 3-methyl=20 histidine (p<0.03) in urine. This could be caused by = impairment of=20 the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme. If this enzyme does not use the = tyrosine, tyrosine gets dumped into the urine. What could cause = this?=20 Bad molecules such as mercury, excess methionine, and H2S, and SO3 = (these are=20 poisons) that bind to tyrosine hydroxylase. The study also found = that=20 folks with CFS typically have low levels of succinic acid = (p<0.0003)=20 in urine. What could cause this? Anything that impairs succinate = synthesis, which could be anything that depletes magnesium = and/or=20 anything that depletes succinyl-CoASh. What can do this? Bad = molecules=20 such as mercury. What happens when tyrosine goes down? The = noradrenaline=20 neurotransmitter goes down. What happens when the noradrenaline=20 neurotransmitter goes down? Many things, including the = regulation of=20 energy in the body, which can result in fatigue. How does one = test for=20 this? They can increase their noradrenaline with an Rx drug for = a short=20 period of time, and see if they feel better.

Bad = Molecules and=20 Good Molecules -- it is that simple.

..........snip=20 ............


.
____________________________________________________
  = IncrediMail -=20 Email has finally evolved - Click=20 Here = ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C2894A.2C58D680-- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2894A.2C58D680 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000e01c28939$67bbd760$0720fdd4@AD> R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE CRQACAAsAgABABAADQAABEoQIUOrpXIOwrsPxiQUheeRAgUA49YNhbCqK1kS9grQhXGAhsDBUJgZ AL2Dcqkk7ogFpvRAokSn0p4PO6UIuUsQggSmFjKXdAgRAQAh+QQFCgAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEEhDJ Sau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oBAAh+QQJFAAIACwCAAEAEAANAAAEShAhQ6ulcg7Cuw/GJBSF55ECBQDj 1g2FsKorWRL2CtCFcYCGwMFQmBkAvYNyqSTuiAWm9ECiRKfSng87pQi5SxCCBKYWMpd0CBEBACH5 BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2894A.2C58D680-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: Re: Ynt: (thmi-fms) Decreased ATP Production Date: 11 Nov 2002 10:53:32 -0700 (MST) Nil, Magnesium deficiency inside the cell may to the root cause for some. This deficiency blocks cellular respiration (metabolism) in the mitochondria in the kreb cycle. As an indirect result the cell produces more phosphates. Phosphates, according to the UK site, bind with magnesium and prevent it from entering the cell. It goes on to say that the magnesium is quickly flushed out of the body. According to Bernard Jensen, Sodium in the blood helps to keep calcium and magnesium in solution. My thinking is that if the sodium level is corrected then magnesium may stay in solution in the blood longer. When calcium falls out of solution it tends to accumulate in joints contributing to arthritis and can form bone spurs etc. This still does not address the problem of phosphates blocking magnesium from getting into the cell. By increasing the metabolism in the cell, the pH will gradually be restored to its ideal of about 7.4pH, phosphate production should decrease. In time magnesium will no longer be blocked from entry. As long as stomach acid is not being sufficiently produced the body is reduced in its ability to absorb magnesium, and other nutrients, from the diet. If this explanation is hard to follow, ask about a specific area that may be confusing and I'll try to break it down further. All the best, Jim PS: the problems in the brain are from blocked cellular respiration. Relying heavily upon glycolysis for energy production the brain cells end up producing a lot of lactic acid, which is what researchers have found to be the case. PSS: Adrenal exhaustion I believe is due to heavy demands for the adrenal hormones to reduce circulation to the extremities to conserve heat and signaling the cells to increase energy production. Over time, the vitamins and minerals required for the adrenals to produce these hormones becomes depleted. ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Yildiz wrote: > Jim, > > Thanks for the answer..This is still kind of complicated for me to > understand.I am really trying to find the root cause. I mean if mag is > deficient why?Where the problem comes from? Brain? Adrenals? > Seems like we will continue searching for the answer. > > Thanks very much. > Best luck! > Nil - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: Re: Fw: (thmi-fms) Root Cause of CFS/FMS Date: 12 Nov 2002 10:43:46 -0700 (MST) Ron, I appreciate your contributing this information on other possible root causes. I believe that there is likely a subset of the FMS/CFS population that could attribute onset of the condition to "bad molecules" such as mercury, cadmium, and other heavy metals and toxic substances. For those interested, here is another article that addresses that topic: "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Scleroderma, and Lupus: The Mercury Connection" by Bernie Windham http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/ID/3305 Heavy metals are dangerous because they bind tightly to cysteines in other proteins (enzymes), often blocking their action. Metallothionein sequesters these metals where they can do not harm. In the liver, metallothionein also soaks up toxic heavy metals such as cadmium, lead, and mercury. It is made in large quantities when a person is poisoned with heavy metals. "Our Molecular Nature" by David S. Goodsell, pg. 123 So if heavy metal poisoning were the root cause of a persons onset of FMS/CFS one would expect to see elevated levels of metallothionein. Or, possibly very depleted levels because the body is not able to produce it and it has exhausted the reserves that it did have. Glutathione is another potent scavenger that aids in the detoxification of the body. Dr. Cheney suggests taking isolate whey proteins to provide the raw ingredients that the body needs to manufacture this protein. In order for the body to absorb the amino acids that this whey protein provides the protein must be broken down, this is done by the enzymes in the stomach that are activated by hydrochloric acid. Some people have reported allergic reactions to this isolated whey protein and I believe that is directly related to the inability to properly break it down. If the body is successful in breaking down the protein and supplying the necessary raw materals (amino acids of glycine, cysteine, and glutamate) the protein must then be constructed and that takes ATP. So, even if the body had the necessary ingredients to make glutathione it still needs the energy provided by ATP to assemble it. In the presentation that Dr. Cheney gave in Dallas, TX he showed and explained a diagram of how glutathione production followed the production of ATP. Based on that information, my thinking is that the emphasis needs to be placed on generating ATP first. The raw ingredients may already be available so making more ATP would then generated more glutathione. I believe that if ATP generation is restored, as well as a restoral of HCl production so that the body can absorb the nutrients from a healty diet, the body will have the raw materials and energy that it needs to restore itself. Thanks for the article, I believe that all the findings are accurate so a model of CFS/FMS must account for these findings if it is to be correct. All the best, Jim PS: the David Goodsell book is an easy read and he does an excellant job of describing what is going on at the molecular level in layman terms. Recommended reading for anyone interested in learning more about this marvelous machine, your body. PSS: "Isolate Whey Protein" is different than "Sweet Dairy Whey" which Dr. Jensen recommends for its sodium content. Isolate Whey Protein is derived by filtering and concentrating the proteins from "Sweet Dairy Whey". Sweet Dairy Whey has relatively small amount of protein. __________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Ron Jones wrote: > http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/index.html > > The text below from my first post belongs to the link above. Sorry about > that. > > Be Well. > ~ron~ > > -------Original Message------- > > From: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com > Date: Sunday, November 10, 2002 01:47:47 PM > To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com > Subject: (thmi-fms) Root Cause of CFS/FMS > > Hi Jim et all, > > Thought you might enjoy another opinion regarding "root causes" for CFS/FMS. > I'm enjoying your research and info Jim. Thanks for sharing. > > Blessings, > ~ron~ > > http://www.cfspages.com/chelation.html > > The Root Cause of CFS/FMS Is Typically "Bad" Molecules > > CFS/FMS is typically caused by "bad" molecules that bind to good molecules > inside the body and subsequently inhibit their function. Sounds simple? It > is very simple conceptually. However, there are many bad and many good > molecules, and tracking them is hard work. This is not for the faint of > heart. We define "bad molecule" rather loosely as a molecule that can take > an internal biochemical system down. The good molecules typically involve: > > * enzymes (chemical that converts one chemical to another chemical) > * neurotransmitters (sends a message from one nerve to another) > * neurotransmitter receptors (the area of a nerve that receives message) > * hormones (chemical used to control a processes within the body) > * cofactors (ingredient used to make a chemical) > * cells in the immune system (when these go down; bacteria, virus, and fungi > go up) > * cells and parts of cells such as the cell membrane and mitochondria > > The bad molecules are typically: > > * heavy metals such as lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel, silver, tin and > barium > * natural and synthetic chemicals and poisons (e.g. carbon monoxide, drugs) > * pesticides (e.g. DDT) > * natural toxins such as H2S (i.e. hydrogen sulfide, that results when fungi > and bad bacteria in gut ferment sugar). > * toxins resulting from natural waste products produced by the body that are > not filtered out properly (e.g. free radicals that cause "oxidation" of > good" molecules). > > Damage to enzymes due to bad molecules is a MAJOR issue since enzymes are > used to regulate and synthesize MANY processes in the body. If a tiny bad > molecule binds to a big enzyme molecule, it can take it down. Enzymes have a > defense system to guard against this from occurring (e.g. thiols), yet if > those defenses go down for a short period of time, the enzyme can go down, > and sometimes permanently. Enzymatic damage is a BIG issue with CFS/FMS. > > Problems caused by genes (i.e. a pathology that runs in a family) are > similar. Each gene produces a protein (all genes do this). And a bad gene > (one that messes you up) typically binds to something good and alters its > function, in a manner similar to that which is done by a bad molecule such > as a heavy metal or a pesticide. > > > Systems That Go Down Because of Bad Molecules > > We begin with bad molecules that goof good molecules. These good molecules > implement important systems in the body, and when these support molecules go > down, the system goes down. > > Below is a short list of systems that can go down, due to bad molecules. > > * ATP energy generation impairments > * noradrenaline brain neurotransmitter disregulation > * sulfite sensitivity due to impair sulfite oxidase > * sugar regulation (hypoglycemia) > * digestive system > * immunity system > * fungi defense system > * thyroid regulation > * adrenal gland regulations > > Neurological and Metabolic fatigue > There are two big systems that involve fatigue. One is the NA/Dopamine > neurotransmitter communication system. When this goes down, one experiences > Neurological" fatigue. Another system is that which produces ATP energy in > the body. When this goes down, one experiences "Metabolic" fatigue. The > customer of these molecules may not be able to differentiate where the > fatigue is coming from unless they test for specific inhibited processes. > All they know is the are tired and do not feel right. > > Fatigue Vs. Time Over 24hrs > A big issue is how one feels over the course of a day. If they feel good > during part of the day, this is a huge clue in itself. Also, it is > encouraging, since it proves that body does have what it takes to feel good. > If this is the case, one can try to correlate this with a biochemical > parameter in the body to get a better idea as to the specific pathology. For > example, if feeling good is proportional to blood sugar level, then sugar > regulation is a major issue. If one is tired during the day and their > Melatonin (hormone that puts one into the sleep state) is on at that time, > which it should not be, then Melatonin regulation may be a major issue. If > one feels tired after eating foods (such as sugar, fast carbo, meat) that > ferment in the gut to produce a gas which inhibits ATP energy synthesis, > then gut ecology is a major issue. Have you ever wondered what is in that > gas that you pass after eating? It is often not oxygen. > > Get To Know Your Fatigue > As you battle your fatigue, you must become acutely aware of how it changes > over time, how it responds to medications, and how a pathology on a test is > related. Ideally, you want to know exactly where the fatigue is coming from, > in addition to understanding the host of other pathologies that you find in > your tests that are adversely affecting your body. > > > Some Examples > > At the 1999 Sydney CFS Research Conference (please see REFERENCE #15 for > details), it was found that folks with CFS tend to have high levels of > tyrosine (p<0.04) and 3-methyl histidine (p<0.03) in urine. This could be > caused by impairment of the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme. If this enzyme does > not use the tyrosine, tyrosine gets dumped into the urine. What could cause > this? Bad molecules such as mercury, excess methionine, and H2S, and SO3 > (these are poisons) that bind to tyrosine hydroxylase. The study also found > that folks with CFS typically have low levels of succinic acid (p<0.0003) in > urine. What could cause this? Anything that impairs succinate synthesis, > which could be anything that depletes magnesium and/or anything that > depletes succinyl-CoASh. What can do this? Bad molecules such as mercury. > What happens when tyrosine goes down? The noradrenaline neurotransmitter > goes down. What happens when the noradrenaline neurotransmitter goes down? > Many things, including the regulation of energy in the body, which can > result in fatigue. How does one test for this? They can increase their > noradrenaline with an Rx drug for a short period of time, and see if they > feel better. > > Bad Molecules and Good Molecules -- it is that simple. > > ..........snip ............ > > > . - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Heavy Metals, etc Date: 13 Nov 2002 13:28:21 -0700 Dear thmi-fms subscriber, Impaired metabolism and poor digestive health, these are the conditions that are at the root of fms/cfs symptoms. At least I believe that to be so. I have yet to come across any research that negates this thinking. I am not closed to making corrections when I am introduced to data that proves differently. There are a number of ways in which each person afflicted with these conditions has come to this point. High stress, antibiotics, trauma, prescription medications, chemical exposure, heavy metals contamination, fluoride and chlorine, viral illnesses, ... You name it, it likely contributed to the onset of the condition; We live in a toxic world. There is no one thing that caused the illness and there will not be a single medical cure that will correct it. However, FMS/CFS is not a condition for which nothing can help. The fact that you have subscribed to this forum indicates that you too must believe that. Those that think otherwise are commiserating with fellow sufferers in forums such as alt.med.fibromyalgia. Many on that list are just happy to have found someone else that can relate to what they are experiencing, they are relieved to have found another to validate that what they have is not in their heads as some of their Drs. may have suggested. Impaired metabolism can result from anything that would interfere with oxygen and/or nutrient delivery to the cells. As an earlier post pointed out this could be the result of heavy metals contamination. But there are many other ways that metabolism could have been negatively impacted. If heavy metals is the culprit you may be interested in reading the article: "Heavy Metal Detox: Why Sweating May Protect the Kidneys" at http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Lheavymetaldetox.htm From the Article "Turn up the Heat" by Dr. Stefan Kuprowsky we read: "One study found that sweat formed in conventional saunas is 95 to 97 percent water. In Infra-red saunas, only 80-85 percent of the sweat is composed of water; the remaining 15 to 20 percent consists of cholesterol, fat-soluble toxins, toxic heavy metals, sulfuric acid, sodium, ammonia and uric acid." When metabolism is impaired, the tissue undergoes respiratory acidosis. Tissue acidification then upsets the pH of the digestive system causing it to become more alkaline. This digestive system upset then causes impaired nutrient and mineral absorption which negatively affects metabolisim, creating a downward cycle. An effective program to reverse cfs/fms must address these two issues; metabolism and health of the digestive system. Since each area affects the other, trying to improve one without the other will likely produce poor results at best. I don't know what else I can tell you. When your ready to get over fms/cfs contact me and I'll help where I can. If money is an issue I'll work with you if I can. I'm grateful for the support of the following list members that have studied the information and been open to this appraoch to wellness. Beverly in WA, Janice in UT, Judith in CA, Madlyn in CA, Mary in MD, Michele in CA Paula in AZ, If a cure is to be found it will be through the efforts of people such as those listed above that are willing to try yet unproven modalities. If you are not actively educating yourself, searching and trying thing that may help you regain your health, you may want to spend some time first analyzing what has caused you to give up trying and correct that. All the best, Jim For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2nd Timothy 1:7 - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mary Michel Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Heavy Metals, etc Date: 13 Nov 2002 15:29:02 -0800 (PST) --0-2080596875-1037230142=:82530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jim, Thanks again for some good info. Regarding your discussion of tissue acidosis what would you suggest if one's urine is overly alkaline with crystals and a tendency toward e-coli infections? I appreciate your input. Mary Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD --0-2080596875-1037230142=:82530 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Jim,

Thanks again for some good info.

 Regarding your discussion of tissue acidosis what would you suggest if one's urine is overly alkaline with crystals and a tendency toward e-coli infections?

I appreciate your input.

Mary


Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD --0-2080596875-1037230142=:82530-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. Date: 14 Nov 2002 17:04:04 -0700 (MST) Hi Mary, I'll do a little bit more studying and see if I can offer more insights. The pH of urine is typically acidic with a pH of about 6.0, the pH can be as low as 4.5pH or can vary as high as 8.0pH. It tends to be acidic since most metaboic waste that the being expelled from the body via the urine is acidic. The venous blood pH is normally about 7.3 pH but researchers have found the venous blood in people with FMS/CFS is more alkaline. The examples given on the UK site (which I have a link to in the Soapbox article on bioterrain) show venous blood pH reading in excess of 7.5pH. In this case you would expect urine pH to be alkaline as the kidneys attempt to correct the blood pH. In extreme acidosis situations such as those seen in people with cancer, the kidneys will generate ammonium so that a greater quantity of acidic substances can be expelled. This will tend to make the urine pH more alkaline. You did not mention whether there was an ammonia odor. In the case of FMS where I suspect that acidification is occuring inside the cells with a buildup of pyruvate I can understand why blood pH would be more alkaline. And, with the impaired metabolism there would be less CO2 generated also contributing to venous blood alkalinity. Not sure what to say about the crystals. Just a thought have you had the urine tested for glucose levels being excreted? On the subject of e-coli, like candida this bacteria too has a role in the ecosystem of the digestive system. My guess is that when HCl production is restored that the e-coli will also be put in its place. Now that you've gotten your second heater you can use it for sauna but due to your low weight status take it easy. On a side note: I've been banned from another FMS/CFS forum. Seems that nobody wants to put up with my ranting. I can't understand how you all tolerate it. ;-) All the best, Jim ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Mary Michel wrote: > > Jim, > > Thanks again for some good info. > > Regarding your discussion of tissue acidosis what would you suggest if > one's urine is overly alkaline with crystals and a tendency toward > e-coli infections? > > I appreciate your input. > > Mary > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Jones" Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. Date: 14 Nov 2002 21:16:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) --------------Boundary-00=_BCILOOU3LVC000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_CCILJZY3LVC000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_CCILJZY3LVC000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't let the bozo's get you down Jim,=0D Your research is extremely accurate and your heart is in the right place.= =0D Consider it their loss. Rant all you want here. Make yourself at home !!! =0D Blessings !!!=0D ~ron~=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D =0D Hi Mary,=0D =2E.............snip .............=0D =0D On a side note: I've been banned from another FMS/CFS forum. Seems that=0D nobody wants to put up with my ranting. I can't understand how you all=0D tolerate it. ;-)=0D =0D All the best,=0D Jim=0D _________________________________________________________________________= __ --------------Boundary-00=_CCILJZY3LVC000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0A
Don't let the bozo's get you down Jim,
Your research is extremely accurate and your heart is in the r= ight=20 place.
Consider it their loss. Rant all you want here. Make yourself = at home=20 !!! <G>
Blessings !!!
~ron~
 
-------Original Message-------<= /I>
 
From: thmi-fms@lists.xmission= =2Ecom
Date: Thursd= ay,=20 November 14, 2002 07:06:06 PM
To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission= =2Ecom
Subject: (th= mi-fms)=20 Alkalinity, etc.
 
Hi Mary,
..............snip .............
On a=20 side note: I've been banned from another FMS/CFS forum. Seems=20 that
nobody wants to put up with my ranting. I can't understand = how you=20 all
tolerate it. ;-)

All the=20 best,
Jim
___________________________________________________= ________________________
=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -=20 Click=20 Here --------------Boundary-00=_CCILJZY3LVC000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_BCILOOU3LVC000000000 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <41F6199D-32EC-4C25-A169-E13C96E5E372> R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE CRQACAAsAgABABAADQAABEoQIUOrpXIOwrsPxiQUheeRAgUA49YNhbCqK1kS9grQhXGAhsDBUJgZ AL2Dcqkk7ogFpvRAokSn0p4PO6UIuUsQggSmFjKXdAgRAQAh+QQFCgAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEEhDJ Sau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oBAAh+QQJFAAIACwCAAEAEAANAAAEShAhQ6ulcg7Cuw/GJBSF55ECBQDj 1g2FsKorWRL2CtCFcYCGwMFQmBkAvYNyqSTuiAWm9ECiRKfSng87pQi5SxCCBKYWMpd0CBEBACH5 BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs= --------------Boundary-00=_BCILOOU3LVC000000000-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Madi" Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. Date: 14 Nov 2002 20:11:00 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C28C19.F3674E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Ron. Jim you do us a great service! Madi ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ron Jones=20 To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 6:16 PM Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. Don't let the bozo's get you down Jim, Your research is extremely accurate and your heart is in the = right place. Consider it their loss. Rant all you want here. Make yourself at = home !!! Blessings !!! ~ron~ -------Original Message------- From: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, November 14, 2002 07:06:06 PM To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com Subject: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. Hi Mary, ..............snip ............. On a side note: I've been banned from another FMS/CFS forum. = Seems that nobody wants to put up with my ranting. I can't understand how = you all tolerate it. ;-) All the best, Jim = _________________________________________________________________________= __ =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C28C19.F3674E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree with Ron.  Jim you do us a great service!  = Madi
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ron=20 Jones
Sent: Thursday, November 14, = 2002 6:16=20 PM
Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) = Alkalinity,=20 etc.

Don't let the bozo's get you down Jim,
Your research is extremely accurate and your heart is in = the right=20 place.
Consider it their loss. Rant all you want here. Make = yourself at=20 home !!! <G>
Blessings !!!
~ron~
 
-------Original=20 Message-------
 
From: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com
Date: = Thursday,=20 November 14, 2002 07:06:06 PM
To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com
Subject: = (thmi-fms)=20 Alkalinity, etc.
 
Hi Mary,
..............snip = .............

On=20 a side note: I've been banned from another FMS/CFS forum. Seems=20 that
nobody wants to put up with my ranting. I can't = understand how=20 you all
tolerate it. ;-)

All the=20 = best,
Jim
_________________________________________________________= __________________
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally = evolved -=20 Click=20 Here = ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C28C19.F3674E60-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. Date: 14 Nov 2002 22:05:02 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C28C29.E23EA7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree also Jim! We appreciate your efforts! Paula ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Madi=20 To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:11 PM Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. I agree with Ron. Jim you do us a great service! Madi ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ron Jones=20 To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 6:16 PM Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. Don't let the bozo's get you down Jim, Your research is extremely accurate and your heart is in the = right place. Consider it their loss. Rant all you want here. Make yourself = at home !!! Blessings !!! ~ron~ -------Original Message------- From: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, November 14, 2002 07:06:06 PM To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com Subject: (thmi-fms) Alkalinity, etc. Hi Mary, ..............snip ............. On a side note: I've been banned from another FMS/CFS forum. = Seems that nobody wants to put up with my ranting. I can't understand how = you all tolerate it. ;-) All the best, Jim = _________________________________________________________________________= __ =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C28C29.E23EA7E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree also Jim!  We appreciate your efforts!
Paula
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Madi=20
Sent: Thursday, November 14, = 2002 9:11=20 PM
Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) = Alkalinity,=20 etc.

I agree with Ron.  Jim you do us a great service!  = Madi
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ron=20 Jones
To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Thursday, November 14, = 2002 6:16=20 PM
Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) = Alkalinity,=20 etc.

Don't let the bozo's get you down Jim,
Your research is extremely accurate and your heart is in = the=20 right place.
Consider it their loss. Rant all you want here. Make = yourself at=20 home !!! <G>
Blessings !!!
~ron~
 
-------Original=20 Message-------
 
From: = thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com
Date: = Thursday,=20 November 14, 2002 07:06:06 PM
To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com
Subject: (thmi-fms)=20 Alkalinity, etc.
 
Hi Mary,
..............snip=20 .............

On a side note: I've been banned from = another=20 FMS/CFS forum. Seems that
nobody wants to put up with my = ranting. I=20 can't understand how you all
tolerate it. ;-)

All = the=20 = best,
Jim
_________________________________________________________= __________________
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally = evolved -=20 Click=20 Here=20
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C28C29.E23EA7E0-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Stress and Magnesium Date: 19 Nov 2002 17:59:10 -0700 Dear thmi-fms subscriber, To new subscribers, Welcome to the group. If anyone is unfamiliar with the program suggested as being beneficial for those that suffer with FMS/CFS you can glean the basics by reading the articles in the "SoapBox" section of the website at http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html As more people improve their health following a very simple program, one day people will come to accept the notion that symptoms of FMS/CFS are the indirect result of multiple nutritional deficiencies. How can you help? Get well and tell. Tell others that may also benefit how you did it. Of course the die-hard person with FMS/CFS will tell you that nothing will help FMS/CFS and your getting better only proves that you did not have this mysterious disease with which they are afflicted. Anyway, that's another rant. In the online presentation I briefly mention that we are each three part entities; Body, Mind, and Spirit. And, that the health of each entity affects the health of the others, for better and for worse. To achieve total health each entity, Body, Mind, and Spirit, must be in good health. Dr. Ali on his website makes the statement that: "The true answer to stress is spirituality--not psychology." I will address this topic another day. I only mention it now to prepare you for related future topics. In this post I want to show the cyclic interrelationship between stress and magnesium deficiency. A nutrient becomes depleted either because it A) is lacking in the diet, B) the nutrient is not being absorbed adequately, C) another nutrient required for its absorption or use is lacking, D) physical requirement for the nutrient is greater than that being supplied, or a combination of the above. Is it in the diet? The best food source of magnesium is fresh green vegetables, but much of this heat-sensitive mineral is lost in the cooking water.[2;pg.92] Man must have the biochemic (organic) form -- food magnesium -- rather than the inorganic form.[1;pg.222] Too often we rely upon supplements to provide or compensate for the lack of a specific nutrient in our diet. It is best to obtain nutrients from food sources. The foods that contain certain nutrients will generally also contain any other nutrient that the body may need to absorb or use that nutrient. Different Vitamin and mineral combinations and concentrations are found in different kinds of foods. The nutrients unique to a food may help the body fully utilize all the nutrients available in the food. I'm not real keen on vitamin supplements. Your body does need vitamins and minerals but your best bet is to obtain them from natural foods. Is the nutrient being absorbed? Nutrients depleted in stress situations are: Protein, vitamin E, riboflavin, choline, pantothenic acid, vitamin A, unsaturated fatty acids and vitamin C, Stress makes nutritional needs skyrocket.[1;pg.367] If the diet is lacking in vitamin B1, B2, Niacin, pantothenic acid or choline, the stomach is unable to secret sufficient hydrochloric acid to dissolve iron.[2;pg.738] Under stress the body uses up riboflavin (vit. B2) and pantothenic acid. Each of these nutrients, as well as others, are required for the production of hydrochloric acid. The "SoapBox" article "Nutrient Depletion and FMS/CFS" shows the nutritional analysis of one woman diagnosed with having both CFS and FMS. Riboflavin and pantothenic acid were both reported to be extremely low; Magnesium was also reported as being extremely low. Eight essential amino acids, two vitamins and fifteen minerals are dependent on proper HCl (hydrochloric acid) for absorptions. [3;pg.33] Magnesium is one of the minerals that require HCl for absorption. Magnesium can become depleted from poor absorption of the mineral. Extra magnesium is in demand when the nerves are under stress or depleted; when one is an extremely intellectual thinker; during times of intense study because the brain disintegrates much phosphorus and this breaks down the supply of magnesium in the body.[1;pg.228] The more phosphorus used by the brain, the more phosphates must be eliminated by the body, and this process calls for magnesium.[1;pg.228] Many people with FMS/CFS report difficulty sleeping. They tell of lying in bed with all kinds of thoughts running through their brain. This activity is burning up phosphorus which requires magnesium to help eliminate the resulting phosphates from the body. Side note: Many people do not realize just how much energy resources are consumed by brain activity. Almost 50 percent of the glucose from the food we eat is used to fuel the brain. The brain does not burn fat, fat and glucose are burned by muscle cells. When the pituitary is not getting the magnesium it needs, it fails in its function of exercising a sort of thermostatic control over the adrenals which are thus allowed to overproduce adrenalin[2;pg.89] (this is kind of unrelated but I thought it interesting.) The nervous system is hyperactive if magnesium is short in the body.[1;pg.225] The more phosphorus used by the brain, the more phosphates must be eliminated by the body, and this process calls for magnesium.[1;pg.228] During intense muscle activity inorganic phosphate (Pi) accumulates in the cell. A reduced pH will increase the dipronated form of Pi (H2PO4-), and this has been shown to be particularly effective in inhibiting muscle force development during muscle fatigue.[4;pg.221] In a research study in Switzerland with the OBJECTIVE: To measure inorganic phosphate (Pi), phosphocreatine (PCr), ATP and phosphodiesters (PDE) in fibromyalgic muscle tissue by (31)P magnetic resonance spectroscopy.[5] The results compared to controls was that there was an increase in Pi of +19%. As the cell uses glycolysis to produce energy the cell becomes more acidic, with a build-up of pyruvate the pH is reduced, an indirect result is the generation of more inorganic phosphates (Pi). This is supported by the findings of the Swiss researchers. This increase in Pi uses magnesium to flush it out of the body, adding to the problem of magnesium depletion. Magnesium is essential for the operation of the kreb cycle, necessary in the production of energy. When magnesium is prevented from entering the cell because it is binding with phosphates outside the cell it impairs the cells ability to create energy and places even greater dependence upon glycolysis for creating energy. (another catch-22 situation.) Negative passions such as hatred, temper outbursts, jealousy, quarrels, resentment, bitterness, hostility, selfishness, greed need magnesium; so do fears, dreads, worry, panic, paranoia, nerve shocks, overwork or over study, loss of a loved one.[1;pg.228] Coffee, alcohol and tobacco, as well as refined sweets, have a disastrous impact on magnesium metabolism.[1;pg.230] In conclusion: Stress burns up the nutrients essential for HCl production, lack of adequate HCl impairs absorption of magnesium (and other nutrients), low magnesium contributes to emotions and fears that cause stress. Stress depletes magnesium and magnesium depletion contributes to stress. The cycle continues until interventions are taken to break it. All the best, Jim References: 1. Jensen, Bkjkjiernard, "The Chemistry of Man". 2. Rodale, J.I. and Staff, "The Complete Book of Minerals for Health". 3. Baroody, Theodore A., "Alkalize or Die". 4. Sperilakis, Nichola, "Cell Physiology Source Book" 5. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11035133&dopt=Abstract - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Ciguatoxins Date: 20 Nov 2002 17:59:34 -0700 Dear thmi-fms subscriber, I'm on the Immune support mailing list and today received an email which included information on "Neurotoxin Discovered in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" The link to the article for those that would like to read it is http://www.immunesupport.com/library/bulletinarticle.cfm?ID=4088&PROD=PH28 The article reports the findings of a Dr. Hokama, a Professor in the Department of Pathology at the John A. Burns School of Medicine at the University of Hawaii. The research, for the first time, discovered ciguatoxin, a potent neurotoxin, in the blood of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome patients. Many CFS patients in the study had higher levels of the toxin than the patients with cancer, hepatitis or acute ciguatera poisoning. Here is my thinking. Ciguatoxin is a neurological poison found in tropical coastal waters. It can accumulate in fish and then be introduced into the human food chain. Here are a couple links I've gathered this info from: http://www.aims.gov.au/arnat/arnat-0004.htm http://www.cigua.com/ I suspect that the CFS patients that Dr. Hokama sees are residents of Hawaii, and may have a greater amount of fish in their diet. It may be that for this group of CFS patients, these toxins may have interfered with cellular metabolic processes. I very much doubt that this toxin will be found in the CFS suffer in Ohio. As I, and others, have pointed out in other posts, there are a number of ways in which the metabolism and digestive system balance can be disrupted. We can now add ciguatoxins to the long list. At least this will provide another topic of discussion on the FMS/CFS conference talks circuit. All the best, Jim - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Shivering Date: 22 Nov 2002 11:02:45 -0700 Dear thmi-fms subscriber, I posted the following to another forum in response to a person telling about an episode of severe shivering. Shivering is a physiologic response of the body attempting to generate heat. Most people, if not all, with FMS/CFS tend to be slightly lower in core body temperature. Core Body Temperature - This is the temperature of the core of the body, including the heart, lungs, and brain, that is essential to the overall metabolic rate of the body. The optimum core body temperature is 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit. Blood flow to the extremities is reduced to maintain temperature at the body core. This puts a load on the adrenals. I have wondered why more people with FMS/CFS do not exhibit symptoms of shivering since the body needs to raise its core temperature. A lower body temperature has a negative affect on metabolism and functions of the immune system. I found the following at another site. Hypothermia causes significant liquid volume depletion, which limits the body's ability to shiver, and prevents exercise. So maybe more people do not experience shivering as a symptom because of dehydration issues. But there must be more to it so I'll keep looking. All the best, Jim Addendum: I just did a little more searching and I think I understand why people w/FMS/CFS do not experience shivering symptoms more often. Shivering is a high-frequency reflex producing oscillatory contraction of mutually-antagonistic skeletal muscles, giving little net movement. Thus the ATP hydrolyzed to provide energy for contraction is producing minimal physical work but substantial heat output. Shivering is mediated through neuromuscular junctions and under cerebellum control. http://www.sfu.ca/biology/courses/bisc445/lectures/regulation_heat_gain.html Shivering is probably not a more common symptom in FMS/CFS because it requires ATP to generate the heat. And, as you have learned from the presentation ATP is something that is in very low suppply. - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Take Care of Yourself Date: 22 Nov 2002 12:35:52 -0700 Dear thmi-fms subscriber, Stress plays a big part in fibromyalgia. The effects of long term stress put a load on the adrenals, creates imbalances in the digestive system, and contributes to nutrient depletions in the body. For many people with fibromyalgia, prolonged stress likely contributed to its onset. Some of the commonly reported stressors are: stressful work environment, stressful relationships, and the stress of physical and emotional traumas. For some people with fibromyalgia, the condition may have been due to an illness or exposure to toxic chemicals. No matter how the condition originated, everyone with fibromyalgia will likely agree that stress definitely exacerbates the condition, causing symptoms to flare. According to Dr. Ali, "The true answer to stress is spirituality--not psychology". I believe this to be very true. Most people agree with the concept that there is a spiritual side to our being. It has been said that "We are not human beings that sometimes have a spiritual experience, but that we are spiritual beings having a human experience". We are aware of the need to feed our physical body; Go without a few meals and hunger pangs remind us that we need to eat. Go too long without feeding the body and it becomes weak. The spirit too needs to be fed. And, like the physical body, the spirit becomes weak if it is not constantly nourished. Most people are familiar with the ten commandments. But have you ever considered the order in which the commandments were given? The first three commandments deal with our relationship with God. The fourth commandment refers to the sabbath day. The fifth commandment deals with our relationship to our parents. The remaining commandments are related to our relationship to everyone. I believe that the fourth commandment may actually refer to our relationship with ourself. The sabbath day is the day set aside for us to renew ourself spiritually. The Ten Commandments then deal with our relationship to God, ourself, our parents, and others in that order. The Ten Commandments: I. Thou shalt have no other god's before me. II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. III. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. IV. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: In it thou shalt not do any work... V. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land, which the lord thy god giveth thee. VI. Thou shalt not kill. VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery. VIII. Thou shalt not steal. IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbour. X. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet they neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservent, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour's. Exodus 5:1 - 10 KJV Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Looking up the work in the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary we find: Sabbath, noun Etymology: Middle English sabat, from Old French & Old English, from Latin sabbatum, from Greek sabbaton, from Hebrew shabbAth, literally, rest 1 a : the seventh day of the week observed from Friday evening to Saturday evening as a day of rest and worship by Jews and some Christians b : Sunday observed among Christians as a day of rest and worship 2 : a time of rest The Lord, being our creator, knows the importance of rest for the health of our body and spirit. He also knows our nature. Unless He made it a commandment, He must have known that man would go every day, non-stop, and ignore the needs for rest and spiritual renewal. And, in time suffer burnout as a result. Thou shalt take care of thyself; Is implied in the Ten Commandment. In the New Testament, Jesus is asked which of the commandments was the greatest. He condenses the ten commandments into two commandments. Matthew 22: 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Implied in this second commandment is that we first love ourself and then love our neighbour in a like manner. These two commandments deal with our relationship to God, to ourself, and then others in that order. In the September 2002 edition of "Prevention Magazine" There is an article titled: Say, "It's all about me!" which reads: Practice healthy selfishness. Pay more attention to your own needs throughout the day. One study of 105 type 2 diabetics found that those who were more self-involved had better blood sugar control than those who focused more on other people's needs. The person with a chronic illness must set as a high priority taking time to take care of themself. This program takes time, the people that are benefiting most are those that take the time to do it. In a presentation by Dr. Morter he told of his observations when trying to find characteristics or behaviours common in people that developed cancer. His observation was that many people with cancer were some of the nicest people in the world. People that were always doing things for others; Often at the expense of putting their own needs at a lower priority. The movie "One True Thing" depicts this very well. The character played by Meryl Streep, who has been diagnosed with cancer, is always doing things for everybody else. Also, her husband has had a number of affairs which she had knowledge of but never confronted him. She told her daughter that she had come to accept that as being a weakness in her husband but that it no longer upset her. I'm guessing that her illness was due, in part, to suppressed feelings; not thinking highly enough of herself to put her own needs at a higher priority. What Dr. Morter observed in people with cancer, may also be true for people with FMS/CFS. They are some of the nicest people in the world, putting the needs of others above their own. As a person with FMS/CFS, it is important that you take care of your own needs first. Accept the fact that you are not in a position to help others with their problems. Learn to say no when people make requests for assistance if you know that you are not up to the task. And, when you do say that you cannot help, do not harbor feelings of guilt for not being able to. I'm not suggesting that you not help others, just stay within the bounds that you are able without wearing yourself down. As Jesus told Peter "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brothers". Likewise, when you are healthy provide help and service to others where you can. Serving others is important, but we are instructed that we should not run faster than we can walk. One problem with many support groups, and is especially true of many online support groups, is that people often tell how hard things are going for them and how this disease has impacted their personal life. They express relief at finally finding a group of people that can understand what they are going through. Reading, and subsequently worrying, about the problems that others are facing, problems for which you have no control, only puts more stress upon you. Don't do it. In closing I'll share a few of my Sunday activities which help me relax and maintain some perspective in my life. I worship the Lord. I attend church services. I leave the TV off. I avoid using the computer. I listen to soothing instrumental or spiritual music in the background. I read uplifting material. I visit or phone family and friends. In general, I rest from the activities that I do throughout the week. Use your sabbath day to rest from your daily activities and focus on the more important things in life. In time, I think you may find that it will help reduce stress. The less energy your body expends on stress, the more energy it can devote to restoring its health. Take care of yourself. It's a commandment. All the best, Jim - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Madi" Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Shivering Date: 22 Nov 2002 21:46:24 -0800 Very interesting! I took my temperature every morning for 10 days and it never did reach 98.6. It was mostly in the 97 degree range. Madi ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:02 AM > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > I posted the following to another forum in response to a person > telling about an episode of severe shivering. > > > Shivering is a physiologic response of the body attempting to generate > heat. Most people, if not all, with FMS/CFS tend to be slightly lower in > core body temperature. > > Core Body Temperature - This is the temperature of the core of the body, > including the heart, lungs, and brain, that is essential to the overall > metabolic rate of the body. The optimum core body temperature is 98.6 > degrees Fahrenheit. > > Blood flow to the extremities is reduced to maintain temperature at the > body core. This puts a load on the adrenals. > > I have wondered why more people with FMS/CFS do not exhibit symptoms of > shivering since the body needs to raise its core temperature. A lower body > temperature has a negative affect on metabolism and functions of the > immune system. > > I found the following at another site. > Hypothermia causes significant liquid volume depletion, which limits the > body's ability to shiver, and prevents exercise. > > So maybe more people do not experience shivering as a symptom because of > dehydration issues. But there must be more to it so I'll keep looking. > > > All the best, > Jim > > Addendum: I just did a little more searching and I think I understand > why people w/FMS/CFS do not experience shivering symptoms more often. > > Shivering is a high-frequency reflex producing oscillatory contraction > of mutually-antagonistic skeletal muscles, giving little net movement. > Thus the ATP hydrolyzed to provide energy for contraction is producing > minimal physical work but substantial heat output. Shivering is mediated > through neuromuscular junctions and under cerebellum control. > http://www.sfu.ca/biology/courses/bisc445/lectures/regulation_heat_gain.html > > Shivering is probably not a more common symptom in FMS/CFS because it > requires ATP to generate the heat. And, as you have learned from the > presentation ATP is something that is in very low suppply. > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Madi" Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Take Care of Yourself Date: 22 Nov 2002 21:57:56 -0800 Jim, This really hearkens back to the way I was raised. My family ceased all labor at sundown Friday night and didn't resume "worldly things" until sundown Saturday night. When I left home I got away from that and eventually I was a workaholic. I worked everyday from 8 am to 12 midnight at two jobs for about 12 years. It is really very wise to take time for ourselves and to not work ourselves into a place where our health is put at risk. Madi ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:35 AM > > Dear thmi-fms subscriber, > > Stress plays a big part in fibromyalgia. The effects of long term stress > put a load on the adrenals, creates imbalances in the digestive system, > and contributes to nutrient depletions in the body. > > For many people with fibromyalgia, prolonged stress likely contributed > to its onset. Some of the commonly reported stressors are: stressful > work environment, stressful relationships, and the stress of physical > and emotional traumas. For some people with fibromyalgia, the condition > may have been due to an illness or exposure to toxic chemicals. > > No matter how the condition originated, everyone with fibromyalgia will > likely agree that stress definitely exacerbates the condition, causing > symptoms to flare. > > According to Dr. Ali, "The true answer to stress is spirituality--not > psychology". I believe this to be very true. > > Most people agree with the concept that there is a spiritual side to our > being. It has been said that "We are not human beings that sometimes > have a spiritual experience, but that we are spiritual beings having a > human experience". > > We are aware of the need to feed our physical body; Go without a few > meals and hunger pangs remind us that we need to eat. Go too long > without feeding the body and it becomes weak. The spirit too needs > to be fed. And, like the physical body, the spirit becomes weak if it > is not constantly nourished. > > Most people are familiar with the ten commandments. But have you ever > considered the order in which the commandments were given? The first > three commandments deal with our relationship with God. The fourth > commandment refers to the sabbath day. The fifth commandment deals with > our relationship to our parents. The remaining commandments are related > to our relationship to everyone. > > I believe that the fourth commandment may actually refer to our relationship > with ourself. The sabbath day is the day set aside for us to renew > ourself spiritually. The Ten Commandments then deal with our relationship > to God, ourself, our parents, and others in that order. > > The Ten Commandments: > I. Thou shalt have no other god's before me. > II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of > anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, > or that is in the water under the earth. > III. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the > Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. > IV. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work, but the seventh > day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: In it thou shalt not do any > work... > V. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the > land, which the lord thy god giveth thee. > VI. Thou shalt not kill. > VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery. > VIII. Thou shalt not steal. > IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbour. > X. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet > they neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservent, > nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour's. > Exodus 5:1 - 10 KJV > > Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not > man for the sabbath: > > Looking up the work in the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary we find: > Sabbath, noun > Etymology: Middle English sabat, from Old French & Old English, from > Latin sabbatum, from Greek sabbaton, from Hebrew shabbAth, literally, > rest > 1 a : the seventh day of the week observed from Friday evening to > Saturday evening as a day of rest and worship by Jews and some > Christians b : Sunday observed among Christians as a day of rest and > worship > 2 : a time of rest > > The Lord, being our creator, knows the importance of rest for the health > of our body and spirit. He also knows our nature. Unless He made it > a commandment, He must have known that man would go every day, non-stop, > and ignore the needs for rest and spiritual renewal. And, in time suffer > burnout as a result. > > Thou shalt take care of thyself; Is implied in the Ten Commandment. > > In the New Testament, Jesus is asked which of the commandments was > the greatest. He condenses the ten commandments into two commandments. > > Matthew 22: > 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? > 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy > heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. > 38 This is the first and great commandment. > 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as > thyself. > 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. > > Implied in this second commandment is that we first love ourself and then > love our neighbour in a like manner. These two commandments deal with > our relationship to God, to ourself, and then others in that order. > > In the September 2002 edition of "Prevention Magazine" There is an > article titled: Say, "It's all about me!" which reads: Practice > healthy selfishness. Pay more attention to your own needs throughout the > day. One study of 105 type 2 diabetics found that those who were more > self-involved had better blood sugar control than those who focused more > on other people's needs. > > The person with a chronic illness must set as a high priority taking > time to take care of themself. This program takes time, the people that > are benefiting most are those that take the time to do it. > > In a presentation by Dr. Morter he told of his observations when trying > to find characteristics or behaviours common in people that developed > cancer. His observation was that many people with cancer were some of > the nicest people in the world. People that were always doing things for > others; Often at the expense of putting their own needs at a lower priority. > > The movie "One True Thing" depicts this very well. The character played > by Meryl Streep, who has been diagnosed with cancer, is always doing > things for everybody else. Also, her husband has had a number of affairs > which she had knowledge of but never confronted him. She told her > daughter that she had come to accept that as being a weakness in her > husband but that it no longer upset her. I'm guessing that her illness > was due, in part, to suppressed feelings; not thinking highly enough of > herself to put her own needs at a higher priority. > > What Dr. Morter observed in people with cancer, may also be true for > people with FMS/CFS. They are some of the nicest people in the world, > putting the needs of others above their own. > > As a person with FMS/CFS, it is important that you take care of your own > needs first. Accept the fact that you are not in a position to help > others with their problems. Learn to say no when people make requests > for assistance if you know that you are not up to the task. And, when > you do say that you cannot help, do not harbor feelings of guilt for not > being able to. > > I'm not suggesting that you not help others, just stay within the bounds > that you are able without wearing yourself down. As Jesus told Peter > "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brothers". Likewise, when you > are healthy provide help and service to others where you can. > > Serving others is important, but we are instructed that we should not > run faster than we can walk. > > One problem with many support groups, and is especially true of many > online support groups, is that people often tell how hard things are > going for them and how this disease has impacted their personal life. > They express relief at finally finding a group of people that can understand > what they are going through. > > Reading, and subsequently worrying, about the problems that others are > facing, problems for which you have no control, only puts more stress > upon you. Don't do it. > > In closing I'll share a few of my Sunday activities which help me relax > and maintain some perspective in my life. I worship the Lord. I attend > church services. I leave the TV off. I avoid using the computer. I listen > to soothing instrumental or spiritual music in the background. I read > uplifting material. I visit or phone family and friends. In general, I > rest from the activities that I do throughout the week. > > Use your sabbath day to rest from your daily activities and focus on the > more important things in life. In time, I think you may find that it will > help reduce stress. The less energy your body expends on stress, the more > energy it can devote to restoring its health. > > Take care of yourself. It's a commandment. > > All the best, > Jim > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Judith Gilbert" Subject: (thmi-fms) Take Care of Yourself Date: 22 Nov 2002 22:25:15 -0800 hi Jim - while I appreciate the essence of your message, I was really offended by its Judeo-Christian tone, particularly by going to the extent of citing Biblical verse to proselytize. As one who practices neither Judaism or Christianity (I am a practicing Buddhist) I found it extremely inappropriate in the context of a health related list. However, since you are the list-owner you are certainly free to post what you please - the pleasures of living in a democratic society! but I don't care to read it - the same pleasures - so please unsub me from this list! Judith Gilbert > > Most people are familiar with the ten commandments. But have you ever > > considered the order in which the commandments were given? The first > > three commandments deal with our relationship with God. The fourth > > commandment refers to the sabbath day. The fifth commandment deals with > > our relationship to our parents. The remaining commandments are related > > to our relationship to everyone. > > > > I believe that the fourth commandment may actually refer to our > relationship > > with ourself. The sabbath day is the day set aside for us to renew > > ourself spiritually. The Ten Commandments then deal with our relationship > > to God, ourself, our parents, and others in that order. > > > > The Ten Commandments: > > I. Thou shalt have no other god's before me. > > II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of > > anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, > > or that is in the water under the earth. > > III. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the > > Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. > > IV. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work, but the seventh > > day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: In it thou shalt not do any > > work... > > V. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon > the > > land, which the lord thy god giveth thee. > > VI. Thou shalt not kill. > > VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery. > > VIII. Thou shalt not steal. > > IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbour. > > X. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet > > they neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservent, > > nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour's. > > Exodus 5:1 - 10 KJV > > > > Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not > > man for the sabbath: > > > > Looking up the work in the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary we find: > > Sabbath, noun > > Etymology: Middle English sabat, from Old French & Old English, from > > Latin sabbatum, from Greek sabbaton, from Hebrew shabbAth, literally, > > rest > > 1 a : the seventh day of the week observed from Friday evening to > > Saturday evening as a day of rest and worship by Jews and some > > Christians b : Sunday observed among Christians as a day of rest and > > worship > > 2 : a time of rest > > > > The Lord, being our creator, knows the importance of rest for the health > > of our body and spirit. He also knows our nature. Unless He made it > > a commandment, He must have known that man would go every day, non-stop, > > and ignore the needs for rest and spiritual renewal. And, in time suffer > > burnout as a result. > > > > Thou shalt take care of thyself; Is implied in the Ten Commandment. > > > > In the New Testament, Jesus is asked which of the commandments was > > the greatest. He condenses the ten commandments into two commandments. > > > > Matthew 22: > > 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? > > 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy > > heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. > > 38 This is the first and great commandment. > > 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as > > thyself. > > 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. > > > > Implied in this second commandment is that we first love ourself and then > > love our neighbour in a like manner. These two commandments deal with > > our relationship to God, to ourself, and then others in that order. > > > > In the September 2002 edition of "Prevention Magazine" There is an > > article titled: Say, "It's all about me!" which reads: Practice > > healthy selfishness. Pay more attention to your own needs throughout the > > day. One study of 105 type 2 diabetics found that those who were more > > self-involved had better blood sugar control than those who focused more > > on other people's needs. > > > > The person with a chronic illness must set as a high priority taking > > time to take care of themself. This program takes time, the people that > > are benefiting most are those that take the time to do it. > > > > In a presentation by Dr. Morter he told of his observations when trying > > to find characteristics or behaviours common in people that developed > > cancer. His observation was that many people with cancer were some of > > the nicest people in the world. People that were always doing things for > > others; Often at the expense of putting their own needs at a lower > priority. > > > > The movie "One True Thing" depicts this very well. The character played > > by Meryl Streep, who has been diagnosed with cancer, is always doing > > things for everybody else. Also, her husband has had a number of affairs > > which she had knowledge of but never confronted him. She told her > > daughter that she had come to accept that as being a weakness in her > > husband but that it no longer upset her. I'm guessing that her illness > > was due, in part, to suppressed feelings; not thinking highly enough of > > herself to put her own needs at a higher priority. > > > > What Dr. Morter observed in people with cancer, may also be true for > > people with FMS/CFS. They are some of the nicest people in the world, > > putting the needs of others above their own. > > > > As a person with FMS/CFS, it is important that you take care of your own > > needs first. Accept the fact that you are not in a position to help > > others with their problems. Learn to say no when people make requests > > for assistance if you know that you are not up to the task. And, when > > you do say that you cannot help, do not harbor feelings of guilt for not > > being able to. > > > > I'm not suggesting that you not help others, just stay within the bounds > > that you are able without wearing yourself down. As Jesus told Peter > > "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brothers". Likewise, when you > > are healthy provide help and service to others where you can. > > > > Serving others is important, but we are instructed that we should not > > run faster than we can walk. > > > > One problem with many support groups, and is especially true of many > > online support groups, is that people often tell how hard things are > > going for them and how this disease has impacted their personal life. > > They express relief at finally finding a group of people that can > understand > > what they are going through. > > > > Reading, and subsequently worrying, about the problems that others are > > facing, problems for which you have no control, only puts more stress > > upon you. Don't do it. > > > > In closing I'll share a few of my Sunday activities which help me relax > > and maintain some perspective in my life. I worship the Lord. I attend > > church services. I leave the TV off. I avoid using the computer. I > listen > > to soothing instrumental or spiritual music in the background. I read > > uplifting material. I visit or phone family and friends. In general, I > > rest from the activities that I do throughout the week. > > > > Use your sabbath day to rest from your daily activities and focus on the > > more important things in life. In time, I think you may find that it will > > help reduce stress. The less energy your body expends on stress, the more > > energy it can devote to restoring its health. > > > > Take care of yourself. It's a commandment. > > > > All the best, > > Jim > > > > - > > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > > > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Take Care of Yourself Date: 23 Nov 2002 01:37:41 -0700 (MST) Hi Judith, The intention was not to offend, I'm sorry that you found it so. Stress is a key element to health, that was the point of the post. As Dr. Ali says, stress is a spiritual issue. I don't totally agree with that. Stress is more an issue of faith, a belief in an outcome. Faith is independent of any particular religious or spiritual belief. All religions, to my knowledge, recognize the spirit element. I was raised in a christian denomination so that is the scripture I am most familiar. I could probably find text in the scriptures of all religions that promote a similar philosophy regarding the need for rest and renewing the spirit. One problem with healthcare is the separation of body, mind, and spirit. Trying to treat one entity, without addressing the influences of the others. I have gotten to the point that I've pretty much told all I can about fibromyalgia. Further posts are kind of beating a dead horse. If people would ask questions, I would have something to write about. The intention of the list was to share experiences. A couple more people have recently invested in heaters to use for sauna, in a few weeks hopefully we will see some posts from people sharing their experience. People still want to hear their own Dr. recommend a protocol before they are willing to try it. I've been promoting this approach for well over two years and I'm getting very tired of beating my head against the wall of skepticism. The one lady on CFSFMExp. when she finally heard it recommended by her "expert" Dr. she invested $4,000 into a FIR sauna, I believe that she took out a loan to pay for it. She could have obtained the same benefits for under $300 using 2 heaters. I've got 38 heaters left. They are the only ones (according to the exporting company) that this manufacturer has shipped to the US. When they are gone, I may or may not have the financial resources to order more. Anyone that has attempted to start their own business can appreciate where I'm at in trying to get this venture off the ground. Anyway, I guess in what could be the final days of this list, I figure it doesn't matter much what I post. The irony in this is that I'm beginning to lose faith in my ability to build this into a business. I've had thoughts of writing to a local successful businessman with strong humanitarian interests to see if he would be interested in taking over this venture, on the condition that he give me a job. I've helped a few people and made a few friends so the journey as has been a good experience. Take care, Jim ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Judith Gilbert wrote: > hi Jim - > > while I appreciate the essence of your message, I was really offended by > its Judeo-Christian tone, particularly by going to the extent of citing > Biblical verse to proselytize. As one who practices neither Judaism or > Christianity (I am a practicing Buddhist) I found it extremely > inappropriate in the context of a health related list. However, since > you are the list-owner you are certainly free to post what you please - > the pleasures of living in a democratic society! but I don't care to > read it - the same pleasures - so please unsub me from this list! > > Judith Gilbert > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Carrie Thomas" Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Take Care of Yourself Date: 23 Nov 2002 07:50:17 -0500 Dear Jim, I appreciated your post & even passed it on (with credit to you & listing your email) to my fibromyalgia friends (I hope that was okay). Although I haven't ordered a heater yet, I appreciate all the effort you put into this list. Some things I am skeptical about & have to take a while pondering upon them before trying. On this, I've already decided I want to try the heaters because I get cold to the bone. However, I'm pregnant & am experiencing an increase in doctor bills (due to the pregnancy) and right now I can't afford the heater. (Side note: pregnancy reduces fibro symptoms for some reason--in me anyway its almost a cure. However, the chronic fatigue symptoms are terrible....so go figure. Trade pain for more fatigue?) Once the pregnancy is over, hopefully I'll have the itty bitty amout you charge for those heaters. No, they aren't expensive, they just are a lot to me & my husband right now. Keep posting whatever you feel like. If I'm offended, I will delete the emails or unsub myself (using the directions at the bottom of every email post). But, for now, I enjoy your research. If you want to answer questions on pregnancy, please do so as I have no idea why the FMS would have gotten better. Is it temporary? What can I do to make the slight remission permanent? Why is CFIDS worse during pregnancy? Thanks! Carrie ----- Original Message ----- > Anyway, I guess in what could be the final days of this list, I figure > it doesn't matter much what I post. The irony in this is that I'm > beginning to lose faith in my ability to build this into a business. I've > had thoughts of writing to a local successful businessman with strong > humanitarian interests to see if he would be interested in taking over > this venture, on the condition that he give me a job. - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mary Michel Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Take Care of Yourself Date: 23 Nov 2002 05:17:29 -0800 (PST) --0-822118450-1038057449=:79804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Carrie, I appreciated your post. In response - first: I bought two of Jim's heaters ( just said the h--- with the cost). It is very cold here ( in MD.) now and I have not yet gotten chilled in the bones. In fact after a while I have to turn it down or off for a while because I get hot - Oh, Joy!!!!! Your comments about pregancy were interesting. Signs of the involvement with hormones. This needs to be studied more. I was pregnant long before I got CFIDS but I remember being hot when no one else was and I never felt so good in my life. After giving birth ( and I hate to tell you this) I never felt the same - never as good as before. It's interesting that the CFIDS are worse for you. I know my sy;;mptoms always got worse at the time of my periods. I wish you all the bgest on your pregnancy and birth. May you have much joy with your baby. Mary Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-822118450-1038057449=:79804 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Dear Carrie,

I appreciated your post.  In response - first: I bought two of Jim's heaters ( just said the h--- with the cost).  It is very cold here ( in MD.) now and I have not yet gotten chilled in the bones.  In fact after a while I have to turn it down or off for a while because I get hot  -  Oh,  Joy!!!!!

Your comments about pregancy were interesting.  Signs of the involvement with hormones.  This needs to be studied more.  I was pregnant long before I got CFIDS but I remember being hot when no one else was and I never felt so good in my life.  After giving birth ( and I hate to tell you this) I never felt the same - never as good as before. It's interesting that the CFIDS are worse for you.  I know my sy;;mptoms always got worse at the time of my periods.

I wish you all the bgest on your pregnancy and birth.  May you have much joy with your baby.

Mary


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-822118450-1038057449=:79804-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sortasweet65@webtv.net Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Take Care of Yourself Date: 23 Nov 2002 13:25:03 -0500 (EST) Those of you that feel better during pregnancy might want to check out Vitalaxin made with the relaxin hormone. Also Dr. Sam Yue's research. I take this product for my fibromyalgia but of course I have no financial interest in it. Thanks, Cindy <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) Pregnancy and FMS/CFS Date: 23 Nov 2002 12:44:30 -0700 (MST) Hello Carrie, Congratulations on your pregnancy. May you be blessed with a healthy child and receive much joy in raising your child. Basically, the fetus has taken control of the systems that regulate your body. The hormone HCG halts the menstrual cycle. HCG also causes the nausea which results in morning sickness. Dr. Batmanghelidj, in his book "Your Body's Many Cries For Water" says: "Morning sickness of the mother is a thirst signal of both the fetus and the mother." Maybe the nausea is to get the mother to drink more. And, usually after throwing up some kind of fluid is drank to remove the taste from the mouth. So, be sure to drink plenty of fluids, especially water. The growth of the fetus requires energy. To reduce energy consumption in your body the fetus signals the production of progesterone. Progesterone levels in a pregnant womans body is 7X normal, which interferes with electrical signals in the brain. This has a tranquilizing effect on the body, causing you to become exhausted to conserve energy. This may be why CFS symptoms seem to be increased during pregnancy. Your own body has increased blood volume an additional 3.5 pints and red blood cell production has increased. Your heart rate has increased and due to the added workload it has increased in size and strength. During pregnancy your heart effectively is pumping an additional 70,000 pints of blood a day through your body. At about 3 months into the pregnancy the sense of wellbeing is increased due to increased production of estrogen. During the 9 months of pregnancy the womans body produces more estrogen than a non-pregnant woman produces in her entire lifetime. Estrogen increases sensitivity to serotonin in the brain. You will feel happier as a result. Besides eating for two you are also now breathing for two. The metabolic waste of CO2 from the fetus will cause your own breathing to increase to about 20% more than your normal levels. It may be that the CO2 from the fetus is assisting in normalizing production of your own stomach acid, allowing you to obtain many of the nutrients from the food you eat; Nutrients that you were not getting with FMS. Eat plenty of nutritious foods. Even with increased food intake you will probably not eat enough to satisfy the demands of the fetus. It will take reserves from your own body, especially calcium from your bones. You are probably taking neonatal vitamins, which is good, but do not depend on them to provide all the nutrients your developing child needs. After birth, control of your body is turned back over to your own body. I suspect that post partum depression that some women experience is a result of the body returning things to normal levels. The body has become accustomed to elevated progesterone and estrogen and increased blood volume and flow. In making the adjustments, for a short time levels may dip below normal resulting in the depression. One tip after birth is to wean the child on mother's milk. The child receives the correct balance and type of nutrients in human milk. Mother's milk also provides immune protection properties, the childs own immune system will not be fully developed until about the age of two. Also, the bacteria in mother's milk establishs the intestinal flora in the childs gut. I have found a large correlation between people reporting symptoms of FMS/CFS in childhood and having been weaned on formulas. Also, if you have problems producing milk, eat plenty of green leafy vegetables. The cow, an animal that produces lots of milk, feeds primarily on grasses, similar nutrients are needed for the prodution of human milk. On another note, do some searching on the internet and educate yourself on possible risks of vaccinations which the current medical community will try to force upon your child. One parting thought, the improvements seen during pregnancy may have lasting results if you take advantage of the improved digestion to resolve nutrition deficiencies. I hope that this information has helped. All the best, Jim ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Carrie Thomas wrote: > Dear Jim, > > I appreciated your post & even passed it on (with credit to you & listing > your email) to my fibromyalgia friends (I hope that was okay). > > Although I haven't ordered a heater yet, I appreciate all the effort you put > into this list. Some things I am skeptical about & have to take a while > pondering upon them before trying. On this, I've already decided I want to > try the heaters because I get cold to the bone. > > However, I'm pregnant & am experiencing an increase in doctor bills (due to > the pregnancy) and right now I can't afford the heater. (Side note: > pregnancy reduces fibro symptoms for some reason--in me anyway its almost a > cure. However, the chronic fatigue symptoms are terrible....so go figure. > Trade pain for more fatigue?) > > Once the pregnancy is over, hopefully I'll have the itty bitty amout you > charge for those heaters. No, they aren't expensive, they just are a lot to > me & my husband right now. > > Keep posting whatever you feel like. If I'm offended, I will delete the > emails or unsub myself (using the directions at the bottom of every email > post). But, for now, I enjoy your research. > > If you want to answer questions on pregnancy, please do so as I have no idea > why the FMS would have gotten better. Is it temporary? What can I do to > make the slight remission permanent? Why is CFIDS worse during pregnancy? > > Thanks! > > Carrie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "THMI" > > Anyway, I guess in what could be the final days of this list, I figure > > it doesn't matter much what I post. The irony in this is that I'm > > beginning to lose faith in my ability to build this into a business. I've > > had thoughts of writing to a local successful businessman with strong > > humanitarian interests to see if he would be interested in taking over > > this venture, on the condition that he give me a job. > > > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marilee Stauffer" Subject: (thmi-fms) sent this to wrong address first time Date: 23 Nov 2002 12:04:36 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C292E8.7DE62D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, I am new to the list and watching to see if others have experinces that = will help me to decide about purchasing infrared heaters. I do NOT have = a doctor's diagnosis for fibromyalgia (tried another protocol that = didn't help) or chronic fatigue (a good description of me is chronically = fatigued) so I need to know if people are really being helped and = especially if the lamps help people who only know they are "acid" or = "toxic" or have "mineral imbalances" (things I do know about myself) My = husband isn't excited about me spending $300 on another treatment that = he knows I won't follow through with if it doesn't make me feel better = in a short period of time. I have a low body temperature and throid = supplementation didn't change that. I work with diet and believe that = is important but that it isn't the total answer. I am taking exotic = supplements that help a little but aren't doing for me what they seem to = do for others. I need answers for myself and my daughter and granddaughter (only 6) who = are on anti-deppressants I would appreciate your input and the comments of others. Marilee =DC ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C292E8.7DE62D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim,
I am new to the list and watching to = see if others=20 have experinces that will help me to decide about purchasing infrared=20 heaters.  I do NOT have a doctor's diagnosis for fibromyalgia = (tried=20 another protocol that didn't help) or chronic fatigue (a good = description=20 of me is chronically fatigued) so I need to know if people are really = being=20 helped and especially if the lamps help people who only know they are = "acid" or=20 "toxic" or have "mineral imbalances" (things I do know about = myself)  My=20 husband isn't excited about me spending $300 on another treatment that = he knows=20 I won't follow through with if it doesn't make me feel better in a short = period=20 of time.  I have a low body temperature and throid=20 supplementation didn't change that.  I work with diet and = believe that=20 is important but that it isn't the total answer.  I am taking = exotic=20 supplements that help a little but aren't doing for me what = they seem=20 to do for others.
I need answers for myself and my = daughter and=20 granddaughter (only 6) who are on anti-deppressants
I would appreciate your input and the = comments of=20 others.
Marilee =DC
  ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C292E8.7DE62D20-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: (thmi-fms) vitalaxin Date: 23 Nov 2002 13:12:49 -0700 (MST) Thank you for the information on vitalaxin. Though I have no scientific basis to support this opinion, I'm not keen on the use of hormones of any kind, this includes human growth hormone which is getting a lot of attention these days. If it is suspected that a particular hormone is deficient it is best, in my opinion, to provide the body with the basic ingredients needed to produce the hormone. As an example, many people take the hormone melatonin for sleep. melatonin production is affected by serotonin, the body needs the amino acid tryptophan to produce serotonin. So, instead of taking melatonin focus on including foods rich in tryptophan into the diet. (other nutrients/ingredients may also be lacking.) Hormones are chemical messengers and still not enough is known about all the systems in the body that respond to the messages of the different hormones. Also, certain hormones may be low because that is the intention of the body. Supplying hormones in this case may cause the body to produce even less, which in the long run may cause a lifetime dependence upon having to supplement the hormone, which may or may not be a good thing. Just some thoughts, for what it's worth. All the best, Jim ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 sortasweet65@webtv.net wrote: > > Those of you that feel better during pregnancy might want to check out > Vitalaxin made with the relaxin hormone. Also Dr. Sam Yue's research. > I take this product for my fibromyalgia but of course I have no > financial interest in it. > > Thanks, > > Cindy > > > > > > > > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > > > - > To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yildiz" Subject: Ynt: (thmi-fms) sent this to wrong address first time Date: 23 Nov 2002 22:15:45 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2933D.DE4754A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would check for adrenal exhaustion. One of the helpful sites=20 http://www.drrind.com/ I find this page very helpful http://www.drrind.com/scorecard.asp What you may need may be some hormones not anti-depressants. Take care. Nil ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marilee Stauffer=20 To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: (thmi-fms) sent this to wrong address first time Jim, I am new to the list and watching to see if others have experinces = that will help me to decide about purchasing infrared heaters. I do NOT = have a doctor's diagnosis for fibromyalgia (tried another protocol that = didn't help) or chronic fatigue (a good description of me is chronically = fatigued) so I need to know if people are really being helped and = especially if the lamps help people who only know they are "acid" or = "toxic" or have "mineral imbalances" (things I do know about myself) My = husband isn't excited about me spending $300 on another treatment that = he knows I won't follow through with if it doesn't make me feel better = in a short period of time. I have a low body temperature and throid = supplementation didn't change that. I work with diet and believe that = is important but that it isn't the total answer. I am taking exotic = supplements that help a little but aren't doing for me what they seem to = do for others. I need answers for myself and my daughter and granddaughter (only 6) = who are on anti-deppressants I would appreciate your input and the comments of others. Marilee =DC =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2933D.DE4754A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would check for = adrenal=20 exhaustion.
 
One of the helpful = sites=20
http://www.drrind.com/
I find this page very = helpful
http://www.drrind.com/scorec= ard.asp
What you may need may = be some=20 hormones not anti-depressants.
 
Take = care.
Nil
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Marilee=20 Stauffer
To: thmi-fms@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Saturday, November 23, = 2002 10:04=20 PM
Subject: (thmi-fms) sent this = to wrong=20 address first time

Jim,
I am new to the list and watching to = see if=20 others have experinces that will help me to decide about purchasing = infrared=20 heaters.  I do NOT have a doctor's diagnosis for fibromyalgia = (tried=20 another protocol that didn't help) or chronic fatigue (a good = description=20 of me is chronically fatigued) so I need to know if people are really = being=20 helped and especially if the lamps help people who only know they are = "acid"=20 or "toxic" or have "mineral imbalances" (things I do know about = myself) =20 My husband isn't excited about me spending $300 on another treatment = that he=20 knows I won't follow through with if it doesn't make me feel better in = a short=20 period of time.  I have a low body temperature and throid=20 supplementation didn't change that.  I work with diet and = believe=20 that is important but that it isn't the total answer.  I am = taking exotic=20 supplements that help a little but aren't doing for me what = they=20 seem to do for others.
I need answers for myself and my = daughter and=20 granddaughter (only 6) who are on anti-deppressants
I would appreciate your input and the = comments of=20 others.
Marilee =DC
  ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2933D.DE4754A0-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yildiz" Subject: Ynt: (thmi-fms) Take Care of Yourself Date: 23 Nov 2002 22:18:01 +0200 No problem with faith issues Jim.. Nil ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:37 AM | | Hi Judith, | | The intention was not to offend, I'm sorry that you found it so. Stress | is a key element to health, that was the point of the post. As Dr. Ali | says, stress is a spiritual issue. I don't totally agree with that. | Stress is more an issue of faith, a belief in an outcome. Faith is not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Jones" Subject: (thmi-fms) Pregnancy Date: 24 Nov 2002 11:08:12 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) --------------Boundary-00=_OT83BHK0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable https://www.immunesupport.com/shop/product.cfm?Product__Code=3Dn0110=0D =0D Hi Carrie,=0D Check this out for info on WHY your symptoms may change during pregnancy.= I ve read Jim's response regarding hormone supplements and I'm inclined to agree. Nevertheless, this info may be useful to you.=0D Sincere best wishes for permanent remission and for a very healthy, happy baby.=0D In Health=0D ~ron~=0D =0D =2E....snip.........=0D Carrie wrote:=0D =2E....snip.......=0D "However, I'm pregnant & am experiencing an increase in doctor bills (due= to=0D the pregnancy) and right now I can't afford the heater. (Side note:=0D pregnancy reduces fibro symptoms for some reason--in me anyway its almost= a=0D cure. However, the chronic fatigue symptoms are terrible....so go figure.= =0D Trade pain for more fatigue?)=0D =0D Once the pregnancy is over, hopefully I'll have the itty bitty amout you=0D charge for those heaters. No, they aren't expensive, they just are a lot = to=0D me & my husband right now.=0D =0D Keep posting whatever you feel like. If I'm offended, I will delete the=0D emails or unsub myself (using the directions at the bottom of every email= =0D post). But, for now, I enjoy your research.=0D =0D If you want to answer questions on pregnancy, please do so as I have no i= dea=0D why the FMS would have gotten better. Is it temporary? What can I do to=0D make the slight remission permanent? Why is CFIDS worse during pregnancy?= =0D =0D Thanks!=0D =0D Carrie"=0D =0D =0D =2E=20 --------------Boundary-00=_OT83BHK0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D =0A
https://www.immunesupport.com/shop/product.cfm?Product__Code=3D= n0110
 
Hi Carrie,
Check this out for info on WHY your symptoms may change during= =20 pregnancy. I've read Jim's response regarding hormone supplements a= nd I'm=20 inclined to agree. Nevertheless, this info may be useful to you.
Sincere best wishes for permanent remission and for a very hea= lthy,=20 happy baby.
In Health
~ron~

 

.....snip.........

Carrie wrote:

.....snip.......

"However, I'm pregnant & am experiencing an increase in doct= or=20 bills (due to
the pregnancy) and right now I can't afford the he= ater.=20 (Side note:
pregnancy reduces fibro symptoms for some reason--in= me=20 anyway its almost a
cure. However, the chronic fatigue symptoms = are=20 terrible....so go figure.
Trade pain for more fatigue?)

O= nce the=20 pregnancy is over, hopefully I'll have the itty bitty amout you
= charge=20 for those heaters. No, they aren't expensive, they just are a lot t= o
me=20 & my husband right now.

Keep posting whatever you feel l= ike. If=20 I'm offended, I will delete the
emails or unsub myself (using th= e=20 directions at the bottom of every email
post). But, for now, I e= njoy=20 your research.

If you want to answer questions on pregnancy,= please=20 do so as I have no idea
why the FMS would have gotten better. Is= it=20 temporary? What can I do to
make the slight remission permanent?= Why is=20 CFIDS worse during pregnancy?

Thanks!

Carrie"

=
.=20

=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
--------------Boundary-00=_OT83BHK0000000000000-- - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THMI Subject: Re: (thmi-fms) Pregnancy Date: 25 Nov 2002 15:01:57 -0700 (MST) Hi Carrie, Much of the information that I sent out on the earlier post regarding pregnancy and FMS I got from a video put out by Discovery Channel. The video is one of the Body Story series that they produced. The specific video is titled "Body Story; Body Snatchers" It deals with how the body responds to foriegn entities, the embryo is considered a foriegn entity by your own immune system. You may want to see if your local library has this video. It will help you better understand some of your bodies responses during this time. All the best, Jim ___________________________________________________________________________ Jim Clements | email: clements@xmission.com Total Health Marketing | ph. 801/583-5060 On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Ron Jones wrote: > https://www.immunesupport.com/shop/product.cfm?Product__Code=n0110 > > Hi Carrie, > Check this out for info on WHY your symptoms may change during pregnancy. I > ve read Jim's response regarding hormone supplements and I'm inclined to > agree. Nevertheless, this info may be useful to you. > Sincere best wishes for permanent remission and for a very healthy, happy > baby. > In Health > ~ron~ > > .....snip......... - To unsubscribe to thmi-fms, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe thmi-fms" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.