From: Michele Bumbarger Subject: TPDIS: Fan Fiction Date: 03 Oct 1998 09:40:58 -0400 Hey there! I have started a fan fiction writer's support group mailing list. It's for anyone out there who writes and/or reads fan fic and wants to talk with others. It will (hopefully, in the future) provide a place for brainstorming, discussion, and finding beta readers. I thought it would be a great place for fan fiction writers to bond, so to speak. And on the subject of fan fiction, as an aside, I have also added a Forever Tomorrow Discussion list. This would be a great place to provide feedback to the authors (hint, hint) or simply discuss anything at all you like (or absolutely detest) about the stories. Yes, there will be more forthcoming in the future. Please drop by and join one of (or both of) the lists, okay? It would make you my friend forever -- and tell anyone you think will be interested about them. The lists can be found at http://www.mindspring.com/~chelesedai/mailcenter.html Thanks a million in advance, Michele _________________________________________________________________ "I laugh in the face of danger. . .Then I hide until it goes away." --Xander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 07 Oct 1998 18:50:49 -0700 About a week ago in my Public Speaking class we had to do a speech on our hobbies and interests, and of course, my interest in the TP was mentioned. The teacher has offered to dedicate a class period to watching an episode of it, but I'm unsure of which one to choose. As it's unlikely that the serial would be viewed in its entirety, it would have to be something that starts out well. And, it couldn't be something that would require much knowledge of previous episodes. Does anyone have any suggestions? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wendy Kelley Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 07 Oct 1998 22:10:20 -0500 Are you going to show original or new series? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 07 Oct 1998 20:46:14 -0700 Wendy Kelley wrote: > Are you going to show original or new series? Either - which do you think would be better? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 07 Oct 1998 20:54:23 PDT >From owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Wed Oct 7 19:03:43 1998 >From: Ariana Brill > As >it's unlikely that the serial would be viewed in its entirety, it would >have to be something that starts out well. And, it couldn't be >something that would require much knowledge of previous episodes. Does >anyone have any suggestions? > If you're talking new series, something from Origin Story would be the best bet. The first, like, three episodes are pretty easy to follow without seeing the previous ones. Eps two and three have a good deal of recap time, so I'd pick one with the most 'action'. If If I remember, the first ep of Origin Story had a *lot* of prepatory stuff and little of the TP stuff (telepathy, teleporting, etc.) Oh well. Good luck. Greyfalcon aka Mike Matott Nothing is stranger than reality ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wendy Kelley Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 07 Oct 1998 23:18:15 -0500 >Either - which do you think would be better? I'd say new series, if you're going to show it to your class. While original series definitely had it's moments, it also has a lot of things that'll probably distract your classmates from watching the show (70's clothes, bad special effects, etc) and that will only cause you heartbreat if/when they tease you about it. I made that mistake *once* with my old sci-fi club: finally got them all convinced to give the show a chance, and not one person stayed past the first five minutes. Not to mention that your copies of the tapes aren't that great. As for which episode: origin story is pretty good for setting up the show (duh!), but I'd say, show them Stones. It's the one with the most action and the least camp, IMO. Of course, if you're only going to show them the first couple of parts of something, it could be interesting to go with Rameses. The serial is really good if you don't see the end. *And* you could let your class try to get their minds around Red Rainwear :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 07 Oct 1998 22:26:39 -0600 At 06:50 PM 07/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >About a week ago in my Public Speaking class we had to do a speech on >our hobbies and interests, and of course, my interest in the TP was >mentioned. The teacher has offered to dedicate a class period to >watching an episode of it, but I'm unsure of which one to choose. As >it's unlikely that the serial would be viewed in its entirety, it would >have to be something that starts out well. And, it couldn't be >something that would require much knowledge of previous episodes. Does >anyone have any suggestions? Well, the Slaves of Jedekiah comes to mind, since there are no previous episodes to require knowledge of, but The Blue and the Green might work pretty well too. Sounds like fun :) Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net 9518-91 st., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6C 3P5 check out the ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 06:56:23 -0700 Okay - so, thus far, the suggestions I have been given (some of them off the list): Secret Weapon, The Dirtiest Business, Slaves of Jedikiah, The Blue and the Green, The Origin Story, The Rameses Connection, and The Living Stones. Well, that at least narrows it down a bit. I would probably have ended up showing The Doomsday Men, just because that's *my* favourite episode, but it's not really the best choice for the situation. Wendy Kelley wrote: > I'd say new series, if you're going to show it to your class. While > original series definitely had it's moments, it also has a lot of things > that'll probably distract your classmates from watching the show (70's > clothes, bad special effects, etc) and that will only cause you heartbreat > if/when they tease you about it. I made that mistake *once* with my old > sci-fi club: finally got them all convinced to give the show a chance, and > not one person stayed past the first five minutes. Not to mention that > your copies of the tapes aren't that great. That's a good point - I hadn't thought of that. In fact, *my* reaction to the Original Series wasn't exactly favourable, and they're likely to be less open than I was. (Of course, I was watching A Man For Emily and trying to aide Geoffrey in the murder of my little brother with a plastic phaser at the same time so...) Even though I like the Original Series better, I guess I really should go with New Series. > As for which episode: origin story is pretty good for setting up the show > (duh!), but I'd say, show them Stones. It's the one with the most action > and the least camp, IMO. My fear with Origin Story is that it won't be appreciated. Half the things in that episode are very subtle, and certainly all the humour is (Turtle Man, "That's my cinnamon doughnut!," "You wanted him to be a mermaid last time!," etc). They wouldn't either miss a lot, or I would have to be constantly interrupting and pointing things out. And it's very camp. Living Stones is actually a really good suggestion. I think it's less confusing than The Rameses Connection - probably the easiest to follow of any of the New Series episodes. It's not on my list of my top 10 episodes or whatnot, so I didn't think of it. I do really like the first episode - I love how they portray his relationship with his father. I think that's the ep they'd be most likely to appreciate. Opinions? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 18:07:04 EDT In a message dated 98-10-08 09:58:52 EDT, you write: > That's a good point - I hadn't thought of that. In fact, *my* reaction > to the Original Series wasn't exactly favourable, and they're likely to > be less open than I was. (Of course, I was watching A Man For Emily and > trying to aide Geoffrey in the murder of my little brother with a > plastic phaser at the same time so...) Even though I like the Original > Series better, I guess I really should go with New Series. LOL, that was hilarious! But before that I tried to get you and Steve to watch an ep, and you hated it after 30 seconds! Anyone else hate the OS upon first viewing it? -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ana isabel Sacristan Rock Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-TP fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 17:45:31 -0500 (CDT) > Anyone else hate the OS upon first > viewing it? > -Geoff > Yes. I remember back in 1975, my cousin told me to watch the TP because she thought it was a great program. It was the Blue and the Green and I did not like it much that first time, mainly because I didn't understand it. Today with the outdated clothes, style, and special effects, it must be even more difficult to get someone to like it on the first viewing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy O'Neal" Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 17:49:09 -0500 (CDT) I'd personally say ep. 2 of the Origin Story of New TP. As was stated the 70's aspect of the OS wouldn't be appreciated and would only get you riduculed. Show them OS when you've got them exactly where you want them. :) Anywho, Geoff, I only liked the OS as much as I did because of all the things I had read about it. Then again, if most of you of you say Doomsday Men is your fav, I'd love to see the rest. :) I almost wish I were in your perdicament Arpi. :) But then again, I'm the oddball of the area, and these people aren't much into Sci-Fi anywho. Ja ne, minnasan! KishiSankaku/Tim O'Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 18:14:51 -0500 >LOL, that was hilarious! But before that I tried to get >you and Steve to watch an ep, and you hated it after 30 >seconds! Anyone else hate the OS upon first viewing it? > -Geoff I only hated the fact that I couldn't understand a thing for the first ep of Slaves of Jedikiah, because the people spoke pretty good English, it's just they went too fast, I wanted to tell them "SLOW DOWN!". They've all got speedy dialects, and I'm not used to it. Everyone down here takes a day and half to finish a sentence. Show them either Origin or Stones, because it's got action, however I'd say that Origin will hold their attention more. Stones gets a little redundant after a bit. The joke at the end (if you get them that far) will totally turn them off. None of that scene is funny. However, if you're gonna show 'em an OS ep, you must show them either The Blue and Green or The Doomsday Men (I do believe DM will go over well, because once they get to the part where Stephen says "They don't, they just *don't*" they'll be hooked). Or Show them "A Man For Emily"! That'll be brilliant. It's wacky, minimal intelligence, action, weird cowboy people, it'll work! Then have a Doozslum Pin search. See who can get Elmer back to Momma without being kicked. There can be learning activities centered around it! Your best bet will be the New Series, because it's closest to modern time. Rameses will confuse them and frustrate them...more so the Doomsday Men. Monsoon Man won't be bad, because it's got action, mild plot, and some of the guys might like Lucy. Culex is also another good choice because they'll like the mosquitoes and people getting knocked out and all. It can get creepy at times. That will hold them for a good bit. Whatever you do don't show them something like Worlds Away, Into the Unknown, Medusa Strain, Return of Jedikiah, and whatever you do don't show them Living Skins ('cause then they'll know something I don't!). Keep away from Rameses and Stones. I would show them Rameses over Stones, You'll lose them on stones! Good Luck, May you Convert many Trekkies! Megan ***** "Oh no children, I've lost you! I've gone too far, too soon, too fast. I'm in the land where nothing's funny anymore!" -Robin Williams ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 17:00:48 -0700 Geoffy-chan wrote: > LOL, that was hilarious! But before that I tried to get you and Steve to watch > an ep, and you hated it after 30 seconds! Anyone else hate the OS upon first > viewing it? Steve and I were too busy trying to blow out matches with telekinesis and eating cheese-its, IIRC :) --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 17:00:04 -0700 Megan wrote: > Whatever you do don't show them something like Worlds Away, Into the Unknown, Medusa Strain, Return of > Jedikiah, and whatever you do don't show them Living Skins ('cause then they'll know something I don't!). Keep > away from Rameses and Stones. I would show them Rameses over Stones, You'll lose them on stones! Okay... Hmm. I don't think that Stones would be that confusing. What does everyone else think? If it's between Origin Story and Living Stones? --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 19:24:10 -0500 >Okay... Hmm. I don't think that Stones would be that confusing. What >does everyone else think? If it's between Origin Story and Living >Stones? No I meant you'll lose them to boredom! Not to confusion. If they're confused, make sure you can't make a hollow knocking sound on their skulls. My all time fave part is Part One (Dressed to Kill) of Doomsday Men! Show them that! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 09 Oct 1998 10:34:25 +1000 (EST) On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Megan R Freeman wrote: > My all time fave part is Part One (Dressed to Kill) of Doomsday Men! > Show them that! Um, why is this your favourite? Not that you don't have every right to like any episode you like, of course, it's just that this statement coupled with Ariana's like for that serial, and someone elses (Tim's? (I always want to capitalise that name for some reason!)) suggestion that so many people seem to like it makes me wonder why it appeals to people so much. I've nothing against it personally - I like it, but it's a fair distance from being my favourite serial and I can't, personally, see any reason why it stands out for so many people. Could one of its fans (or all of its fans, for that matter) 'reeducate' me? Dreadnought ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heidi tandy Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 20:42:11 -0400 The first episode I ever saw was A Much Needed Holiday - talk about your episodes that have serious relation to a previous episode in the first few minutes - the episode is premised on the idea that Mike was severely traumatized about what happened to Pavla (which I always spell wrong) & the first 5 minutes are a little confusing if you don't know that, but I did understand what was going on by the time it ended. My recommendation is the one that introduces Andrew (The Haunted Castle? Castle Of Fear? Someone help me!) because there's less cheezy clothing in it (kilts cannot, by definition, be cheezy, just old-fashioned), and because the whole Loch Ness Monster & ghosts things are pretty easy to get into - plus, there's no singing in this one (and as someone who actually owns one of Mike Holoway's cds, I don't have a problem with that : ) An introduction episode (one of the ones with a new tomorrow person) is great for an explanation of powers (although The Lost Gods is a little hard to follow, because hsu tai can be indecipherable at times) - and if my memory serves me correctly, noone ends up unconscious in this one. At 10:26 PM 10/7/98 -0600, jane starr wrote: >At 06:50 PM 07/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >>About a week ago in my Public Speaking class we had to do a speech on >>our hobbies and interests, and of course, my interest in the TP was >>mentioned. The teacher has offered to dedicate a class period to >>watching an episode of it, but I'm unsure of which one to choose. As >>it's unlikely that the serial would be viewed in its entirety, it would >>have to be something that starts out well. And, it couldn't be >>something that would require much knowledge of previous episodes. Does >>anyone have any suggestions? > >Well, the Slaves of Jedekiah comes to mind, since there are no previous >episodes to require knowledge of, but The Blue and the Green might work pretty >well too. heidi howard tandy ...close your eyes, get so dizzy... Faster Than Light (Neil Finn) ...and praise will come to those whose kindness leaves you without debt and bends the shape of things to come that haven't happened yet... Ditto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SunStar77@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 21:13:54 EDT I'd go with the Origin Story simply because it introduces the characters and basic plot elements. And it's pretty good story, Sun Star ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Monica Lewinsky" Subject: re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 18:24:14 -0700 My favorite episodes are "A Much Needed Holiday", "The Doomsday Men", and "Castle of Fear". All of those men in skirts really turn me on! John looks soooo yummy in a dress! I guess I just have a thing for men in power. But John's dress was too clean; it could've used a stain like mine! Oh well, I can always make it stained. Just give me 5 minutes. Oo la la! Love, Monica Whaat!!! Have you tried The Doghouse??! Get your FREE WEB-BASED EMAIL account at: http://www.thedoghousemail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 18:48:43 -0700 Megan wrote: > My all time fave part is Part One (Dressed to Kill) of Doomsday Men! Show them that! I love that episode, too, Megan :) But I think I want to stay away from the Original Series. I have a friend who I'd like to subject to it, but my class as a whole probably won't want to sit through it. '70's attire can be pretty frightening! Shaun wrote: > Um, why is this your favourite? Not that you don't have every right to > like any episode you like, of course, it's just that this statement > coupled with Ariana's like for that serial, and someone elses (Tim's? (I > always want to capitalise that name for some reason!)) suggestion that so > many people seem to like it makes me wonder why it appeals to people so > much. I've nothing against it personally - I like it, but it's a fair > distance from being my favourite serial and I can't, personally, see any > reason why it stands out for so many people. Could one of its fans (or > all of its fans, for that matter) 'reeducate' me? Well, Megan hasn't seen all the episodes. IIRC, she's only seen up to A Man For Emily. That, IMHO, encompasses the majority of the better episodes (otherwise known as Episodes Without Mike). And the same with Tim, only to a greater degree - AFAIK The Doomsday Men is the only ep he's seen. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't remain their favourite episode after they've seen all of them! It's a really cool ep. I think it's my favourite just because it's a lot of fun. It presents a lot of issues without getting too heavy or long. I love the scene with John talking to TIM - the bit about 'Scarlet Majors' and the same with the argument between John and Liz about whether or not to rescue Lee. Stephen is also very good in that episode - he starts to grow up a little, but is still very funny. I don't know! It's an all around good episode. --Ariana (who is not being extra ordinarily articulate this evening) "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:37:25 EDT In a message dated 98-10-08 19:33:23 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 98-10-08 19:33:23 EDT From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com >LOL, that was hilarious! But before that I tried to get >you and Steve to watch an ep, and you hated it after 30 >seconds! Anyone else hate the OS upon first viewing it? > -Geoff >> I only hated the fact that I couldn't understand a thing for the first >>ep of Slaves of Jedikiah, because the people spoke pretty good English, >>it's just they went too fast, I wanted to tell them "SLOW DOWN!". They've >>all got speedy dialects, and I'm not used to it. Everyone down here takes >>a day and half to finish a sentence. Gee, that must be awful not to be able to understand simple english.:) I had no problem undertanding them at all. I can't understand pure welsh,or gaelic irish,but anything from Liverpudlian Cockney to either the eastend or the westend of ol' London town,I have no problem. :) I bet Tyso gave you fits then? :) >> Show them either Origin or Stones, because it's got action, however I'd >>say that Origin will hold their attention more. Stones gets a little >> redundant after a bit. So do some of the other stories,not to mention seeing them constantly land in the ocean all the time. ( where's TIM when you need him? ) >> However, if you're gonna show 'em an OS ep, you must show them either The >>Blue and Green or The Doomsday Men (I do believe DM will go over well, because >> once they get to the part where Stephen says "They don't, they just >>*don't*" they'll be hooked). Or Show them "A Man For Emily"! That'll be >>brilliant. It's wacky, minimal intelligence, action, weird cowboy people, >> it'll work! Then have a Doozslum Pin search. See who can get Elmer back >>to Momma without being kicked. There can be learning activities centered >> around it! Well, I dont know about ''...Emily". maybe if you're a diehard fan, or a major ''Whovian'' but its an ok ep in my book. The time-travel eps were always good. The one with Col. Masters was great I thought. He should've been the semi-regular villain, as was The Master or even the Rani in Dr. Who. Col. Masters really could've been fleshed out into a truly evil nemesis. >> Your best bet will be the New Series, because it's closest to modern >>time. Rameses will confuse them and frustrate them...more so the Doomsday >>Men. Monsoon Man won't be bad, because it's got action, mild plot, and >>some of the guys might like Lucy. Culex is also another good choice >>because they'll like the mosquitoes and people getting knocked out and >>all. It can get creepy at times. That will hold them for a good bit. Well, if they are a total YOU CANT DO THAT ON TELEVISON fan, they might like it better,but i think that the OS does have some merit and shouldn't be pushed aside so easily. Had the NS been more faithful to the OS,and all the politics in the background that wasn't around in the OS, hadn't happened, the TP might still be going on as a 3-5 story summer series sort of as the OS was. >> Whatever you do don't show them something like Worlds Away, Into the >>Unknown, Medusa Strain, Return of Jedikiah, and whatever you do don't >>show them Living Skins ('cause then they'll know something I don't!). Like what? That it was a so-so story,or what Mike's band was like? Or what he looked like in the bubbleskin suit? :) Naughty, naughty!!! >>Keep away from Rameses and Stones. I would show them Rameses over >>Stones, >>You'll lose them on stones! Maybe not, just prepare them for it better,and it might not bore them to much. >>Good Luck, May you Convert many Trekkies! >>Megan Hey, I'm TREKKER,(nobody but the uniformed, or a mundane uses that archaic term anymore.) and I LOVED the TP from when I first saw it in 81 or so on Nickelodeon,back when Nick signed off at about 8pm here. I also loved ''The Third Eye'' which used to follow the TP during its final run on Nick. Remember that? :) Anyone have any eps of that on tape? Lemme know. Jeff ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by air-zc03.mail.aol.com (v50.17) with SMTP; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:33:23 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA04005; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zRPYB-0006UY-00 for tpdis-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:32:51 -0600 Received: from [205.231.100.25] (helo=x9.boston.juno.com) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zRPY9-0006UP-00 for tpdis@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:32:49 -0600 Received: (from tplight@juno.com) by x9.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DQ3VZU2N; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:32:37 EDT To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:14:51 -0500 Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Message-ID: <19981008.182937.3430.1.TPLight@juno.com> References: <464fce9b.361d3788@aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-5,10-11,23-24,30-31,36-41,43-46 From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 21:54:11 -0500 >Well, Megan hasn't seen all the episodes. IIRC, she's >only seen up to A Man For Emily. My tapes are up to Into The Unknown (which wasn't Oscar winning, but could have been worse. It could have been a Man For Emily -- ugh...) I didn't mind Mike. He's no Stephen (I will *not* drool, I will *not* drool...) but he's not so bad. I could have tolerated him being a bit nicer to John, but again, sometimes you must slay a holy cow. Teddle de Teedle da Megan **** "The back of the drivers seat is a piece of driving apparatus commonly taken forgranted. I lost mine and I went up a hill...I slid to the back and was merely making suggestions...Could you take a left here?" -Paula Poundstone ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ana isabel Sacristan Rock Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 21:59:59 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Shaun Owen Hately wrote: > On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Megan R Freeman wrote: > > > My all time fave part is Part One (Dressed to Kill) of Doomsday Men! > > Show them that! > > Um, why is this your favourite? Not that you don't have every right to > like any episode you like, of course, it's just that this statement > coupled with Ariana's like for that serial, and someone elses (Tim's? (I > always want to capitalise that name for some reason!)) suggestion that so > many people seem to like it makes me wonder why it appeals to people so > much. I've nothing against it personally - I like it, but it's a fair > distance from being my favourite serial and I can't, personally, see any > reason why it stands out for so many people. Could one of its fans (or > all of its fans, for that matter) 'reeducate' me? > I also like that episode a lot. Why exactly, I am not sure. I know I like the fact that Stephen has a central role in it. And I like the kilt! :) Ana. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:17:12 -0500 >Gee, that must be awful not to be able to understand >simple english.:) That's not simple at all. I come from America, in the South, where we talk very slow and with very bad a's i's e's o's u's b's c's (basically the whole alphabet). >I bet Tyso gave you fits then? :) Fits isn't the word. More like conniptions. My tape is worn because I had to rewind several times to get understand what they were saying. >Well, if they are a total YOU CANT DO THAT ON TELEVISON >fan, they might like it better,but i think that the OS >does have some merit and shouldn't be pushed aside so >easily. Hey! You don't have to tell me that. I know. I've got tapes. I watch them everyday. I *know* the OS has merit. In fact, I do believe that the OS was in many respects superior to NS. >Had the NS been more faithful to the OS, and all the >politics in the background that wasn't around in the OS, >hadn't happened, the TP might still be going on as a 3-5 >story summer series sort of as the OS was. The beauty of the NS was that it wasn't faithful. It broke rules, took chances, and turned out pretty good. Can you see Stephen getting Tyso to wear a dress? >Like what? That it was a so-so story,or what Mike's band >was like? Or what he looked like in the bubbleskin suit? >:) Naughty, naughty!!! Don't tell me! I haven't seen it yet!!!!!! >Maybe not, just prepare them for it better,and it might >not bore them too much. It bored me. I was well prepared. > Hey, I'm TREKKER,(nobody but the uniformed, or a mundane >uses that archaic term anymore.) I dunno about mundane but I don't wear a uniform. Sorry, no kilts for me. Again, a Doomsday Men reference! BTW, long live Luke Skywalker...I am a Star Wars fan...I'm so bad. Use the Force Megan **** "Will somebody get this walking carpet outta my way?" -Princess Leia Star Wars ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wendy Kelley Subject: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:38:25 -0500 Ana said: >I also like that episode a lot. Why exactly, I am not sure. I know I like >the fact that Stephen has a central role in it. And I like the kilt! :) I liked the episode a lot because of Chris. IMO, he shouldn't have been discarded as a character. I like the idea of a main character who isn't a TP (or otherwise extraordinary) but who is in the know. I can't recall what sized part Chris had in DM, but it seems to me to have been fairly large? Or am I hallucinating again? What I want to know . . . how *exactly* did Chris find out about the TP? Anyone feel like broaching that in fanfic? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 08 Oct 1998 21:04:49 -0700 Wendy Kelley wrote: > I liked the episode a lot because of Chris. IMO, he shouldn't have been > discarded as a character. I like the idea of a main character who isn't a > TP (or otherwise extraordinary) but who is in the know. I can't recall > what sized part Chris had in DM, but it seems to me to have been fairly > large? Or am I hallucinating again? Me too - Chris is a really interesting character. He did have a large role in the Doomsday Men - in almost all the scenes that take place in the lab. He's there when Stephen first puts on the kilt, and it's his van that they take into orbit. I wish I knew what happened to that van in real life! > What I want to know . . . how *exactly* did Chris find out about the TP? > Anyone feel like broaching that in fanfic? Presumably he met them through his brother, Ginge. IIRC, he appeared out of nowhere in The Blue and the Green, at the same time that Ginge stopped being involved. -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 00:36:14 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 00:07:34 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 00:07:34 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Wendy Kelley wrote: > I liked the episode a lot because of Chris. IMO, he shouldn't have been > discarded as a character. I like the idea of a main character who isn't a > TP (or otherwise extraordinary) but who is in the know. I can't recall > what sized part Chris had in DM, but it seems to me to have been fairly > large? Or am I hallucinating again? >>Me too - Chris is a really interesting character. He did have a large >>role in the Doomsday Men - in almost all the scenes that take place in >> the lab. He's there when Stephen first puts on the kilt, and it's his >>van that they take into orbit. I wish I knew what happened to that van >>in real life! It either rotted in storage as did most of the TP sets (that's why the lab and TIM were ''updated'' as the series progressed, not due to a larger budget, which according to RP, never really happened,but that the trailers that the sets were stored in were not checked often and they leaked) or was sold off after its usefulness had ended. > What I want to know . . . how *exactly* did Chris find out about the TP? > Anyone feel like broaching that in fanfic? >>Presumably he met them through his brother, Ginge. IIRC, he appeared >>out of nowhere in The Blue and the Green, at the same time that Ginge >>stopped being involved. Exactly. I dont have any of the OS on video (anyone care to sell me copies? Good ones please, i hate the slp\ep to slp\ep dubs, too washedout for my taste.) But according to Chris's debut, Ginge was hurt in a motorcycle accident,which a joke was made that Chris did it,which he didnt.:) And I think Left came back,but Ginge never did. I dont about the novels, I only have ''The Visitor'', "Three into Three'' and ''One Law'',so I cant state with any certainty if he ever came back in any form. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from relay30.mx.aol.com (relay30.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.30]) by air05.mail.aol.com (v50.17) with SMTP; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 00:07:34 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by relay30.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA21263; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zRTox-0002mv-00 for tpdis-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:06:27 -0600 Received: from [208.206.232.6] (helo=mail.advanc.net) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zRTov-0002mq-00 for tpdis@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:06:25 -0600 Received: from geocities.com ([152.175.223.11]) by mail.advanc.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-16954) with ESMTP id AAA44 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:06:00 -0400 Message-ID: <361D8B61.E7E5B51F@geocities.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:04:49 -0700 From: Ariana Brill X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men References: <199810090340.WAA08652@emerald.jvlnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 08 Oct 1998 21:44:05 PDT >From owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Thu Oct 8 17:52:54 1998 >>From: heidi tandy >Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Major snippage. > (although The Lost Gods is a little hard >to follow, because hsu tai can be indecipherable at times) - and if my >memory serves me correctly, noone ends up unconscious in this one. You mean there's an episode where nobody gets knocked out? Any synaptrol or whatever it's called? I didn't think it was possible. :-) mike, who needs to get tapes, but needs to get money before he can get the tapes (but someday, someday, I shall see the OS) Greyfalcon aka Mike Matott Nothing is stranger than reality ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 09 Oct 1998 00:52:53 EDT In a message dated 98-10-08 23:21:43 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 98-10-08 23:21:43 EDT From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com >>Gee, that must be awful not to be able to understand >simple english.:) >>That's not simple at all. I come from America, in the South, where we >> talk very slow and with very bad a's i's e's o's u's b's c's (basically >> the whole alphabet). I am also from the south ( Louisiana, where are you from? ) and I do have an accent,but I dont talk slow,and I NEVER had a problem with understanding them,not even Hsu Ti :) Now that's an accomplishment!! :) Oh, yeah, i also understood the SPIDRON too,could you? :) >>>I bet Tyso gave you fits then? :) >> Fits isn't the word. More like conniptions. My tape is worn because I had >>to rewind several times to get understand what they were saying. LOL! :) Cor Blimey, mate! 'spect you can't understand wot those blokes what are on Grange Hill or The Eastenders, or Coronation Street say either than, eh luv? :) You lot are what we'd call thick as a brick! :) >>Well, if they are a total YOU CANT DO THAT ON TELEVISON fan, they might >>like it better,but i think that the OS does have some merit and >>shouldn't be pushed aside so easily. >>Hey! You don't have to tell me that. I know. I've got tapes. I watch them >>everyday. I *know* the OS has merit. In fact, I do believe that the OS >>was in many respects superior to NS. Hey, great!!I take back the rude things what I muttered under me breath wot when I read wot your lot said. :) >>Had the NS been more faithful to the OS, and all the >>politics in the background that wasn't around in the OS, hadn't >>happened, the TP might still be going on as a 3-5 story summer series >>sort of as the OS was. >> The beauty of the NS was that it wasn't faithful. It broke rules, took >> chances, and turned out pretty good. Can you see Stephen getting Tyso to >>wear a dress? Erm, that's a bit scary,almost as scary as the SPICE GIRLS!!!! :P But, I don't think Tyso would look good in a dress, he doesn't have the legs like Stephen did ;) LOL!!!! :) >>Like what? That it was a so-so story,or what Mike's band was like? Or >>what he looked like in the bubbleskin suit? :) Naughty, naughty!!! >> Don't tell me! I haven't seen it yet!!!!!! Well, only if you say PLEASE :) Otherwise, I'll send ya a synopisis in the morning:) >>Maybe not, just prepare them for it better,and it might not bore them >>too much. >>It bored me. I was well prepared. Yeah, well, i was bored by most of the NS. >> Hey, I'm TREKKER,(nobody but the uniformed, or a mundane >uses that >> archaic term anymore.) >>I dunno about mundane but I don't wear a uniform. Sorry, no kilts for me. >>Again, a Doomsday Men reference! BTW, long live Luke Skywalker...I am a >>Star Wars fan...I'm so bad. Traitor :) actually I mistyped, I meant UNINFORMED, not uniformed. :) My mistake :) Jeff Darth Vader (which means something like Dark Lord in Afrikaans) : ''Luke, I am your FATHER...... Yoda: "Tells the truth does he....and your MOTHER am I, yes the truth is your weapon against evil, my son.... .... Luke ''NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" FADE TO BLACK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 01:53:15 CDT > But according to Chris's debut, Ginge was hurt in a motorcycle >accident,which a joke was made that Chris did it,which he didnt.:) Well, it wasn't exactly a joke... Chris and Ginge had been fighting over the Blue and Green badges... so when Chris said he was in the hospital John thought he meant that he was there because of the fight. kristy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 02:03:29 CDT >Wendy Kelley wrote: > >> I liked the episode a lot because of Chris. IMO, he shouldn't have been >> discarded as a character. I like the idea of a main character who isn't a >> TP (or otherwise extraordinary) but who is in the know. I can't recall >> what sized part Chris had in DM, but it seems to me to have been fairly >> large? Or am I hallucinating again? > >Me too - Chris is a really interesting character. He did have a large >role in the Doomsday Men - in almost all the scenes that take place in >the lab. He's there when Stephen first puts on the kilt, and it's his >van that they take into orbit. I wish I knew what happened to that van >in real life! I like Chris too... I also liked him a lot in Rift in Time and other stories. I think he is why I keep telling everyone that since I'm too old to *really* dream of breaking out... I'd gladly be the sap friend. You're right there in the thick of it, but you don't have quite as many Prime Barrier problems. You just have to talk your way past John... which is just about as tough I guess... but he did let him kidnap the Prime Minister. He got to be just a tad less limited in his thinking... kind of a 'We don't have to HURT someone... but we don't have to follow the rules quite so strictly either' feel. >> What I want to know . . . how *exactly* did Chris find out about the TP? >> Anyone feel like broaching that in fanfic? > >Presumably he met them through his brother, Ginge. IIRC, he appeared >out of nowhere in The Blue and the Green, at the same time that Ginge >stopped being involved. hehe - That would be interesting... Ginge and Lefty were bound to be lousy at keeping this secret. > >-- >(~.~) Ariana > >"If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my >life come true!" >-Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 08 Oct 1998 21:14:51 -0700 This is a nitpicky detail, but I'm fairly certain that the TP visited Wembley Stadium in the Living Stones. Did they? And if so, was that the first stadium with the race cars, or the second where the Pod People actually were? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 08:03:44 -0700 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > It either rotted in storage as did most of the TP sets (that's why the > lab and TIM were ''updated'' as the series progressed, not due to a larger > budget, which according to RP, never really happened,but that the trailers > that the sets were stored in were not checked often and they leaked) or was > sold off after its usefulness had ended. Hmm... That's an idea I don't think anyone's ever considered. Might the TP have switched to the new lab because of environmental conditions (too cold, damp, etc) rather than security? > Exactly. I dont have any of the OS on video (anyone care to sell me > copies? Good ones please, i hate the slp\ep to slp\ep dubs, too washedout for > my taste.) But according to Chris's debut, Ginge was hurt in a motorcycle > accident,which a joke was made that Chris did it,which he didnt.:) And I > think Left came back,but Ginge never did. I dont about the novels, I only have > ''The Visitor'', "Three into Three'' and ''One Law'',so I cant state with any > certainty if he ever came back in any form. Try http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/gftch/tapes.htm :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 08:08:42 -0700 Kristy Fahrenwald wrote: > I like Chris too... I also liked him a lot in Rift in Time and other > stories. I think he is why I keep telling everyone that since I'm too > old to *really* dream of breaking out... I'd gladly be the sap friend. > You're right there in the thick of it, but you don't have quite as many > Prime Barrier problems. You just have to talk your way past John... > which is just about as tough I guess... but he did let him kidnap the > Prime Minister. He got to be just a tad less limited in his thinking... > kind of a 'We don't have to HURT someone... but we don't have to follow > the rules quite so strictly either' feel. Somehow I don't think that John would have gone along with that if the situation hadn't been so desperate. As odd as it is, I think John would find the 'jaunt in there with stun guns blazing' approach more favourable. (Not that that's unreasonable - how did he know that the prime minister wouldn't do something else to them as soon as they released him?) But that wasn't working - what else could he have possibly done? (That's a fanfic idea, actually. Alternative endings for serials...) > hehe - That would be interesting... Ginge and Lefty were bound to be > lousy at keeping this secret. No one seemed to irritated with Ginge, though. I think it was probably more of a 'Hey, John, do you want to meet my brother?' kind of thing. But I wonder if they didn't perhaps tell more people than they let on. Especially if money was involved... -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 08:33:06 PDT >This is a nitpicky detail, but I'm fairly certain that the TP visited >Wembley Stadium in the Living Stones. Did they? Soooo close! :) It was Wimbledon Stadium, not Wembley. >And if so, was that >the first stadium with the race cars, or the second where the Pod People >actually were? Wimbledon Stadium was where they were sent on their goose chase and nearly ran over. The London Forum was the site of the concert. Be seeing you, Darryl "Such modesty." "A minor talent. Or hadn't you noticed?" --John Steed and Emma Peel, "The Avengers" (1998) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:36:35 +0100 If we follow the two premises which seem to have been adopted: 1 - 90s series, as something made on film in widescreen with stereo sound is going to impress on first sight more than something on old VT. 2 - Only an episode or two can be shown. ... then really any story will do, since they all start fairly well, and suffer varying degrees of problems later, confirming the adage that it is easier to start than finish. Personally I consider Stones to be the best crafted piece all round, even more so if you are aware of the inside jokes it contains against Nickelodeon management, but the first episode in itself is not particularly outstanding. The best first episode is (IMO of course) Rameses, and I have been in a none-too-sympathetic audience where this did go down well. Since you aren't going to show the whole thing anyway, you could include the conclusion to episode four as a powerful excerpt, which contains a lot of the series essence as well. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:49:22 +0100 Ariana Brill wrote: > Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > > It either rotted in storage as did most of the TP sets (that's why the > > lab and TIM were ''updated'' as the series progressed, not due to a larger > > budget, which according to RP, never really happened,but that the trailers > > that the sets were stored in were not checked often and they leaked) or was > > sold off after its usefulness had ended. > Hmm... That's an idea I don't think anyone's ever considered. Might the > TP have switched to the new lab because of environmental conditions (too > cold, damp, etc) rather than security? The actual reason behind the sets and props being destroyed was a fire that started in the scenery store in Teddington. It could have been direct damage, or from the water used to put it out. It so happens that Ruth Boswell was filming a fire scene using a model for another series (*) and came back in the afternoon to find her office had been burnt down. (*) The Warrier Queen - historical series about Boudicca. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:49:08 +0100 "Darryl Gillikin" contains these words: > >This is a nitpicky detail, but I'm fairly certain that the TP visited > >Wembley Stadium in the Living Stones. Did they? > Soooo close! :) It was Wimbledon Stadium, not Wembley. Although in the original script the actual venue was to have been Wembley stadium. Wimbledon Stadium is fairly small, and is mainly used for greyhound racing (at least it was the last time I went there). 6-5 and 2-1 reversed please :) Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 09:08:13 -0700 Darryl Gillikin wrote: > > >This is a nitpicky detail, but I'm fairly certain that the TP visited > >Wembley Stadium in the Living Stones. Did they? > > Soooo close! :) It was Wimbledon Stadium, not Wembley. This proves it's been *way* too long since I've watched the Living Stones in its entirety. There should be a holiday or something especially dedicated to watching the TP. -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 12:38:33 CDT >Somehow I don't think that John would have gone along with that if the >situation hadn't been so desperate. Yeah, still I love that Chris talked him into it. A mere sap. >No one seemed to irritated with Ginge, though. I think it was probably >more of a 'Hey, John, do you want to meet my brother?' kind of thing. >But I wonder if they didn't perhaps tell more people than they let on. >Especially if money was involved... That's what I was thinking... Chris was just in the rare position of being allowed to meet them... the rest wouldn't have believed them. But I really think Ginge had grown beyond selling them out... I just picture him having a big mouth. Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 12:40:17 CDT >This proves it's been *way* too long since I've watched the Living >Stones in its entirety. There should be a holiday or something >especially dedicated to watching the TP. > > > >-- >(~.~) Ariana I love this plan... let's vote on a date. Kristy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 11:25:21 -0700 Kristy Fahrenwald wrote: > >Somehow I don't think that John would have gone along with that if the > >situation hadn't been so desperate. > > Yeah, still I love that Chris talked him into it. A mere sap. Well, John is sort of arrogant, but he's not stupid. IMHO, he would accept a good solution from nearly anyone. And not that Chris's was *good*, exactly, but it was the best anyone could come up with at the time. -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 11:28:05 -0700 Kristy Fahrenwald wrote: > >This proves it's been *way* too long since I've watched the Living > >Stones in its entirety. There should be a holiday or something > >especially dedicated to watching the TP. > > I love this plan... let's vote on a date. Well, I celebrate my own Tomorrow People day on March 26th, just because that was the day my obsession began (just the fact that I can pinpoint the date shows an obsession (= ) but there's no reason for that to be our holiday. What about the date that the Original Series first aired? That seems kind of fitting. Does anyone know what it is? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:02:46 +0100 Ariana Brill wrote: > This proves it's been *way* too long since I've watched the Living > Stones in its entirety. Oddly I watched this through quite recently. I was sort of prompted to do so by the death of Patricia Hayes. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 12:12:56 -0700 Jeremy Rogers wrote: > Oddly I watched this through quite recently. I was sort of prompted to do > so by the death of Patricia Hayes. Forgive me for asking - who is Patricia Hayes? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ana Isabel Sacristan Subject: Re: TPDIS: Chris Date: 09 Oct 1998 13:29:33 -0500 >> hehe - That would be interesting... Ginge and Lefty were bound to be >> lousy at keeping this secret. > >No one seemed to irritated with Ginge, though. I think it was probably >more of a 'Hey, John, do you want to meet my brother?' kind of thing. >But I wonder if they didn't perhaps tell more people than they let on. >Especially if money was involved... > >-- >(~.~) Ariana We know (Slaves of Jedikiah) that the TP tell their family their secret to have their support. This must extend to friends they feel they can confide in. Chris obviously belongs to this category, particularly since his brother already knew the secret. And Chris seems to be a more trustworthy person than Ginge! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:15:54 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 02:54:24 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 02:54:24 EDT From: kristyfah@hotmail.com (Kristy Fahrenwald) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com > But according to Chris's debut, Ginge was hurt in a motorcycle >accident,which a joke was made that Chris did it,which he didnt.:) >>Well, it wasn't exactly a joke... Chris and Ginge had been fighting over >>the Blue and Green badges... so when Chris said he was in the hospital >>John thought he meant that he was there because of the fight. >>kristy Ok, thanks. I couldn't recall,and as I've said, I dont have the OS to watch,so I'm relying on my faulty memory, where's TIM when you need him? :) Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:32:12 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 11:11:20 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 11:11:20 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > It either rotted in storage as did most of the TP sets (that's why the > lab and TIM were ''updated'' as the series progressed, not due to a larger > budget, which according to RP, never really happened,but that the trailers > that the sets were stored in were not checked often and they leaked) or was > sold off after its usefulness had ended. >>Hmm... That's an idea I don't think anyone's ever considered. Might the >>TP have switched to the new lab because of environmental conditions (too >>cold, damp, etc) rather than security? That is a possibility. I hope that if someone has any of the missing novels (ones I dont have) or any of the ''Look-In'' or any of the Thames-TV magazines published at that time might have some sort of reference as to what made the TP move the Lab for story reasons. One ''universe'' of TPFANFICT that I've read has the new Lab orbiting the Earth, hidden from SAPS by a ''spectra-shift'' (cloaking device) and most of the TP live there full-time in order to remain hidden from the governments and anti-TP terrorist groups. But in reality,as I've stated, Roger Price mentioned in an interview with one of the older now non-operating US TP clubs, that during the year of so hiatus the old lab sets DID rot while in storage on some sort of field in London that Thames-TV used to store its sets. The same happened to the old Jaunting belts,so they had to redesign most everything due to this. I plan to send those old interviews to someone so that they can go over them,and possibly get them re-typed and then I'll pass them along to everyone who wants one, or I will try to xerox them instead. They are badly damaged from a fire we had several years ago,and most of the TP material I had was badly damaged by the water and some of the smoke. So some might be better off being retyped rather than xeroxed. Any volunteers????? :) > Exactly. I dont have any of the OS on video (anyone care to sell me > copies? Good ones please, i hate the slp\ep to slp\ep dubs, too washedout for > my taste.) But according to Chris's debut, Ginge was hurt in a motorcycle > accident,which a joke was made that Chris did it,which he didnt.:) And I > think Left came back,but Ginge never did. I dont about the novels, I only have > ''The Visitor'', "Three into Three'' and ''One Law'',so I cant state with any > certainty if he ever came back in any form. >>Try http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/gftch/tapes.htm :) ok, thanks :) Jeff -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-za01.mx.aol.com (rly-za01.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.97]) by air-za02.mail.aol.com (v50.17) with SMTP; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 11:11:18 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-za01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA24728; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zReBt-0001MZ-00 for tpdis-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:10:49 -0600 Received: from [208.206.232.6] (helo=mail.advanc.net) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zReBn-0001Lg-00 for tpdis@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:10:44 -0600 Received: from geocities.com ([152.206.29.84]) by mail.advanc.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-16954) with ESMTP id AAA238 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:10:46 -0400 Message-ID: <361E25CF.1D41CAE8@geocities.com> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:03:44 -0700 From: Ariana Brill X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men References: <96d70f5d.361d92be@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:37:35 EDT << > hehe - That would be interesting... Ginge and Lefty were bound to be > lousy at keeping this secret. >>No one seemed to irritated with Ginge, though. I think it was probably >> more of a 'Hey, John, do you want to meet my brother?' kind of thing. >>But I wonder if they didn't perhaps tell more people than they let on. >>Especially if money was involved... >> I suppose,but I think that Ginge and certainly Lefty, were a bit more honorable than that. They did help the TP at some great personal risk, if I recall correctly(and if not, I'm sure that some kind soul will correct me),so I think only if they were actually harmed,or hypnotized would they only reveal what they know. I know that they were hooligans,but not quite as tough or evil as you would think if you judged them by their appearnce only. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 13:41:40 -0700 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > But in reality,as I've stated, Roger Price mentioned in an interview with > one of the older now non-operating US TP clubs, that during the year of so > hiatus the old lab sets DID rot while in storage on some sort of field in > London that Thames-TV used to store its sets. The same happened to the old > Jaunting belts,so they had to redesign most everything due to this. I plan to > send those old interviews to someone so that they can go over them,and > possibly get them re-typed and then I'll pass them along to everyone who wants > one, or I will try to xerox them instead. They are badly damaged from a fire > we had several years ago,and most of the TP material I had was badly damaged > by the water and some of the smoke. So some might be better off being retyped > rather than xeroxed. Any volunteers????? :) Oooh! I'll do it! I'll do it! (Megan may be the most enthusiastic beta-reader, but I'm going for most enthusiastic typist (= ) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:43:17 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 13:41:44 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 98-10-09 13:41:44 EDT From: kristyfah@hotmail.com (Kristy Fahrenwald) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com >This proves it's been *way* too long since I've watched the Living >Stones in its entirety. There should be a holiday or something >especially dedicated to watching the TP. > > > >-- >(~.~) Ariana >> I love this plan... let's vote on a date. >>Kristy How about Boxing Day (Dec. 26) ? That way the fans who wish to argue the OS vs. NS can have a go about it when their egos get in the way? :) I'm sure that the ''Prez'' of TPI (Totally Pathetic Idiots) would love to get in on that one!! :) Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:49:22 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 16:42:26 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 16:42:26 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > But in reality,as I've stated, Roger Price mentioned in an interview with > one of the older now non-operating US TP clubs, that during the year of so > hiatus the old lab sets DID rot while in storage on some sort of field in > London that Thames-TV used to store its sets. The same happened to the old > Jaunting belts,so they had to redesign most everything due to this. I plan to > send those old interviews to someone so that they can go over them,and > possibly get them re-typed and then I'll pass them along to everyone who wants > one, or I will try to xerox them instead. They are badly damaged from a fire > we had several years ago,and most of the TP material I had was badly damaged > by the water and some of the smoke. So some might be better off being retyped > rather than xeroxed. Any volunteers????? :) >>Oooh! I'll do it! I'll do it! (Megan may be the most enthusiastic >>beta-reader, but I'm going for most enthusiastic typist (= ) Ok, you asked for it!!! :) Sure, just drop me an e-mail sometime,and I'll try to get the stuff together for you. Its quite a lot,and I'm still going over a lot of it, laughing at all the lies that TPI sent to all of its members over the years, its a real hoot!! :) Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Steinberg Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > Ok, you asked for it!!! :) Sure, just drop me an e-mail sometime,and > I'll try to get the stuff together for you. Its quite a lot,and I'm still > going over a lot of it, laughing at all the lies that TPI sent to all of its > members over the years, its a real hoot!! :) Like what? -David "ZZYZX" Steinberg www.ihoz.com "very strange raving egomaniac" ************************************************************************** *"The glow stick war is coming! *"I can't believe I'm a junior and a* * Arm yourselves...be prepared. * film major, when all I really * * The weak will be lost in darkness! * wanted in this life was to marry a* * -a glowstick vendor at Lemonwheel * lobsterman and cook fish." * * Time for Timer * -a letter from Christie Searing * ************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SapphireSky Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 17:28:08 -0400 Ariana wrote: > > This proves it's been *way* too long since I've watched the Living > > Stones in its entirety. I watch an episode or two of the show every single day, and this past week has just happened to be "The Living Stones." Tonight will be Part 5. You should definitely watch it again soon! Jez wrote: > Personally I consider Stones > to be the best crafted piece all round, even more so if you are aware > of the inside jokes it contains against Nickelodeon management. Like what? You've made me really curious now. Rachel with an E :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 17:17:53 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 16:58:19 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 16:58:19 EDT From: zzyzx@seanet.com (David Steinberg) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > Ok, you asked for it!!! :) Sure, just drop me an e-mail sometime,and > I'll try to get the stuff together for you. Its quite a lot,and I'm still > going over a lot of it, laughing at all the lies that TPI sent to all of its > members over the years, its a real hoot!! :) >> Like what? I feel that this ought to be private. E-mail me, and I'll tell you. I'd rather just talk about the TP here. :) Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Newman Subject: TPDIS: Re: TP Holiday Date: 09 Oct 1998 22:18:23 +0100 Ariana Brill wrote: > Well, I celebrate my own Tomorrow People day on March 26th, just because > that was the day my obsession began (just the fact that I can pinpoint > the date shows an obsession (= ) but there's no reason for that to be > our holiday. What about the date that the Original Series first aired? > That seems kind of fitting. Does anyone know what it is? I think it was 30th April 1973 That could be a god date for us to celebrate. Jackie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 22:27:42 +0100 Ariana Brill wrote: > Forgive me for asking - who is Patricia Hayes? In the narrow sense of TP Patricia Hayes played the umbrella-wielding Felicity Triplett in The Living Stones. However, she had an extremely long and distinguished career as a charachter actress. Like many actresses her age was somewhat in doubt, but she was at least 87 and possibly 89 when she died a few weeks ago. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 09 Oct 1998 23:03:59 +0100 SapphireSky wrote: > I wrote: > > Personally I consider Stones > > to be the best crafted piece all round, even more so if you are aware > > of the inside jokes it contains against Nickelodeon management. > Like what? You've made me really curious now. Hmm, the full details come from a conversation that was on a confidential basis, and although some of it has come out through other sources I am still going to keep the confidence as I can't always remember what has not been revealed elsewhere and by others, particularly in UK fanzines. What I will say is that Nickelodeon requested certain features to be included in that particular series, and Lee Pressman did include them, but with a twist applied in each case. A more simple inside joke is in the end sequence when Lee Pressman appears as a Brian Lucifer band member. Look out for the bandana-wearing guitar player. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 23:14:36 +0100 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > I feel that this ought to be private. E-mail me, and I'll tell you. I'd > rather just talk about the TP here. :) Well I for one would think you would be, but I respect what you prefer. There has been, and still is, a lot of drivel written about TP, and in some cases it is quite interesting to trace the misinformation back to its origin. However, there is a general difficulty in finding accurate information, as the original primary material is good to start with, but tapers off fairly rapidly during the run, a result I guess of a lack of promotion. Present day interviews with the cast or crew are also not 100% reliable, as people tend to remember things the way they want, rather than the way it was. I also suspect that Roger Price liked to play games with his interviewers, as the stories are often differ from one to another. Some stories go right back though. I can trace the one which suggests that Nick Young sent 25 photographs, 24 of himself for the part of John to an interview of Stephen Salmon in 1973. Another 1973 interview, of Nick Young, raises a smile with me: 'It's my first nice part too. I've always seemed to play arrogant characters in other TV shows'. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 18:47:58 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 18:17:27 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 18:17:27 EDT From: jeremy.rogers@zetnet.co.uk (Jeremy Rogers) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > I feel that this ought to be private. E-mail me, and I'll tell you. I'd > rather just talk about the TP here. :) >>Well I for one would think you would be, but I respect what you prefer. Hmmm....I'm confused. What are you referring to? I was referring to David's question about TPI--the club,not the TP show, or Roger Price's interviews. >>There has been, and still is, a lot of drivel written about TP, and >>in some cases it is quite interesting to trace the misinformation >>back to its origin. However, there is a general difficulty in finding >>accurate information, as the original primary material is good to >>start with, but tapers off fairly rapidly during the run, a result I >>guess of a lack of promotion. I agree. Its much like STAR TREK. I love the show,but some have made jokes about the coverage that STARLOG has given it over the years. Remarks about interviewing the ''redshirt'' who did a walkby in episode #32 or who did the work on Shatner's hair-pieces (which he still denies wearing). TREK was the first SF show that caught on very quickly, and was ''The Show that Wouldn't Die!! '' That irritates some people,and I feel sorry for them. I grew up lucky enough to have seen TREK do a first run syndication in 1970 on our local NBC affiliate. I can also recall seeing Lost In Space, Land of the Giants, a show called Star Lost, (I think) , several shows in the early to mid seventies by Filmation Studios-- Space Academy, Jason of StarCommand, ( one of these shows had Jimmy Doohan, and the other had Jonathan Harris) and none of these shows get much attention. Why? Becasue they arent as marketable as STAR TREK. Its a shame, but the truth. I too, would die to see STARLOG do a several issue spread of interviews with the cast members,and show some of the ''unpublished'' photos that must exist before they rot away in somebody's musty attic.:( Wiil it every happen? Maybe. I suppose we could all start a letter writing campaign to them. If I was a subscriber I'd threaten to cancel :) But I dont subscribe simply becasue I grow tired of all the crap that they put in there. I mean, look at Dr. Who, the most successful Uk show,and almost the longest running TV show EVER,had it not had the hiatises that it had during the last few seasons. ( I also didnt like the new tv movie much becasue it wasnt Dr. Who, and besides, Anthony Ainley (?) is THE MASTER,and to not have given him the honor of at least having some screen time as Sylvester McCoy had, is a shame. >> Present day interviews with the cast or crew are also not 100% reliable, >>as people tend to remember things the way they want, rather than the >> way it was. I also suspect that Roger Price liked to play games with >>his interviewers, as the stories are often differ from one to another. I agree,as this is normal with anybody, not just celebrities. As for Roger Price, I must agree,as he seems to present one image,yet his actions say something differnt. He stated in some interview that I have somewhere, that he regretted what he did to PVC about not using him more,and how he dumped him as he became older. He said he didnt want to do that again. Yet, when he did YCDTOT he had a chance to use Kevin Kubicheskie and didnt really do it. Yes, he did try with UFO KIDNAPPED,but other than the pilot, that's all he did,and then left for Britian again,and put YCDTOT on one of its long breaks before dropping it. You will also notice how in the last few years, and during Allisdar's last season, that he became a bit more vulgar with farts, and even several jokes in one episode about Allisdar's penis size. It seems as if he WANTED to get the show canceled. I also spoke to Allisdar on the phone about a few months before UFO KIDNAPPED debuted on US television,and he was somewhat slient when I asked him about Mr. Price. Speaks volumes to me, do you agree? >> Some stories go right back though. I can trace the one which suggests >>that Nick Young sent 25 photographs, 24 of himself for the part of John >> to an interview of Stephen Salmon in 1973. Another 1973 interview, of >> Nick Young, raises a smile with me: 'It's my first nice part too. >>I've always seemed to play arrogant characters in other TV shows'. :) Kewl. I've never seen any of the 70's interviews,so that's a nice revelation. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Newman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 10 Oct 1998 00:01:15 +0100 Jeremy Rogers wrote: > Some stories go right back though. I can trace the one which suggests > that Nick Young sent 25 photographs, 24 of himself for the part of John > to an interview of Stephen Salmon in 1973. Another 1973 interview, of > Nick Young, raises a smile with me: 'It's my first nice part too. > I've always seemed to play arrogant characters in other TV shows'. > This photo incident is also mentioned by nick in an interview with Muriel- Jane Smith which is available on my web page. I have lost the precise date of publication but guess that it was around 1973/4 www.effdee.demon.co.uk/article1.htm Jackie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Steinberg Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > Hmmm....I'm confused. What are you referring to? I was referring to > David's question about TPI--the club,not the TP show, or Roger Price's > interviews. See I thought the misinformation would be about stuff from the show. Silly me :-) -David "ZZYZX" Steinberg www.ihoz.com "very strange raving egomaniac" ************************************************************************** *"The glow stick war is coming! *"I can't believe I'm a junior and a* * Arm yourselves...be prepared. * film major, when all I really * * The weak will be lost in darkness! * wanted in this life was to marry a* * -a glowstick vendor at Lemonwheel * lobsterman and cook fish." * * Time for Timer * -a letter from Christie Searing * ************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:06:30 -0700 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > I suppose,but I think that Ginge and certainly Lefty, were a bit more > honorable than that. They did help the TP at some great personal risk, if I > recall correctly(and if not, I'm sure that some kind soul will correct me),so > I think only if they were actually harmed,or hypnotized would they only reveal > what they know. I know that they were hooligans,but not quite as tough or > evil as you would think if you judged them by their appearnce only. I don't think they're evil at all - I don't know, they just don't strike me as being extraordinarily loyal. Chris does, however. (It could just be because I like the episodes with Chris in them better than the ones with Ginge and Lefty!) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 09 Oct 1998 16:09:39 -0700 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > How about Boxing Day (Dec. 26) ? That way the fans who wish to argue the OS > vs. NS can have a go about it when their egos get in the way? :) I'm sure > that the ''Prez'' of TPI (Totally Pathetic Idiots) would love to get in on > that one!! :) Seems a bit too close to Christmas... although I guess it's a plus since most of us would already be off and could spend the day watching the TP. What was the original intention of Boxing Day, anyway? I've never heard of it except when seeing the name written on calendars. > I think it was 30th April 1973 > > That could be a god date for us to celebrate. I think that would be a good day, too. Hmm... how to decide? :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 19:32:34 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 19:26:33 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 19:26:33 EDT From: zzyzx@seanet.com (David Steinberg) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > Hmmm....I'm confused. What are you referring to? I was referring to > David's question about TPI--the club,not the TP show, or Roger Price's > interviews. >>See I thought the misinformation would be about stuff from the show. >> Silly me :-) LOL :) Sorry, i dont deal with misinformation of any kind.:) But if you know any, I'll gladly entertain it.:) J ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 19:46:58 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 19:27:34 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 19:27:34 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > I suppose,but I think that Ginge and certainly Lefty, were a bit more > honorable than that. They did help the TP at some great personal risk, if I > recall correctly(and if not, I'm sure that some kind soul will correct me),so > I think only if they were actually harmed,or hypnotized would they only reveal > what they know. I know that they were hooligans,but not quite as tough or > evil as you would think if you judged them by their appearnce only. >>I don't think they're evil at all - I don't know, they just don't strike >>me as being extraordinarily loyal. Chris does, however. (It could just >>be because I like the episodes with Chris in them better than the ones >>with Ginge and Lefty!) Well, I suppose you're right. Lefty was dumb(er) but a bit more of a softy than Ginge. I suppose that had Col. Masters really had his way, and could've kidnapped Ginge and Lefty,and threaten them, they might've broken down, or Patricia (?) would've scanned their minds and possibly broke down any restistance that they might've offered. I just hate to think that they'd turn traitor willingly,but I guess it'll happen in a new story now.:) Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 09 Oct 1998 19:49:47 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 19:27:39 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 98-10-09 19:27:39 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > How about Boxing Day (Dec. 26) ? That way the fans who wish to argue the OS > vs. NS can have a go about it when their egos get in the way? :) I'm sure > that the ''Prez'' of TPI (Totally Pathetic Idiots) would love to get in on > that one!! :) >>Seems a bit too close to Christmas... although I guess it's a plus since >>most of us would already be off and could spend the day watching the >>TP. What was the original intention of Boxing Day, anyway? I've never >>heard of it except when seeing the name written on calendars. Its the day that alot of boxing goes on tele. But there is more to it,but that's the only reason I've been told. > I think it was 30th April 1973 > > That could be a god date for us to celebrate. >> I think that would be a good day, too. Hmm... how to decide? :) nah, gotta be this one.It makes sense,unless you wanna celebrate the last episode that Carol whined in? :) J ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:22:27 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 19:43:59 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 98-10-09 19:43:59 EDT From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) To: Jeffl1965@aol.com > > >>>I am also from the south ( Louisiana, where are you from?) >>As Stephen says to Cawston in Secret Weapon "I wouldn't tell you where I >> live, not in a million years." :) :) > > LOL! :) Cor Blimey, mate! 'spect you can't understand wot >those blokes >>what are on Grange Hill or The Eastenders, or >Coronation Street say >>either than, eh luv? :) You lot are >what we'd call thick as a brick! :) >>You know I can READ just fine and any accent you wish to type...I'm >>southern, not illiterate, MATE. I don't mind a fair deal of jesting, but >>that's uncalled for. BTW, I understand a great deal of Brit-speak, I have >> an ear disorder, MATE, that's why I can't handle it sometimes. I'm not >>stupid. No offense was intended. I'm sorry that you were offended. If you are so hyper sensitive about things that people have no idea about until you tell them, then perhaps you shouldn't be here, as written text doesn't reveal emotion very well,and if taken the wrong way can be blown so out of whack that it becomes a BIG problem. As a sountherner,(and i dont care where you're from, i could find out easily if I wanted to) I thought that the joke about accents would tickle you some,as I'm sure that you must get a few laughs from any northern friends that you do realtime phone converstations with. I've been kidded about mine before,and I really dont have one. My family from down south DO have a more pronounced accent,and it tickles me to hear them pronounce some words,as do any yankees I've heard. >>Hey, great!!I take back the rude things what I muttered >under me breath >>wot when I read wot your lot said. :) >>Nice to know you've cussed me out when I wasn't online. that too was aJOKE. I am sorry that you seem to be so sensitve. Why would you think that I'd attack you? I dont know you,and have no reason to attack you. Even now, while I could, I dont feel a need to . Get over it,ok? >>Well, only if you say PLEASE :) Otherwise, I'll send ya a >>synopisis in the morning:) >>I'll delete it. how mature. Guess you wont read this either. How can I offer an apology if you wont even let me explain? > >Yeah, well, i was bored by most of the NS. >>I was in certain scenes, but mind you it was intended for a certain >> audience. Very True. After Roger Price washed his hands of the NS, that gave you a hint about how he felt about it after stating in some interviews that he was pleased that so many people still liked the show. i guess he wanted to kill it off once and for all,just as he tried to do with YCDTOT during the last season or so. You did notice the flatulence and the remarks about Allisdar's penis size in some of his last episodes? Very strange if you ask me. >>Traitor :) actually I mistyped, I meant UNINFORMED, not >>uniformed. :) My mistake :) >>That's okay. Still, no kilts for me. Trekker-hood isn't a prerequisite to >>TPism. Nobody said I've got to like Star Trek. BTW, The convert many >>Trekkies thing was an in joke to Ariana and Geoff. I wasn't offending >>anyone. Nobody ever said it was. You seem to have a irritating predilection for assuming facts not in evidence and trying to turn it into a negative statement. I wasn't offended, I was merely attempting to correct a misnomer started by the mundanes in a futile attempt to create an illusion that all SF fans are social misfits who have no life other than quoting lines from their favorite show/film,much as posters do here. i find the quotes funny,and do not think the poster to be a mongoloid becasue he/she quotes Han Solo rather than Wm. Shakespear. I'm still not offended by the staement,and I accept your explaination with no problem. I understood that it was some kind of ''family'' joke,and had no problem with it. Best wishes, J Star Wars Megan **** "Either shut him up or shut him down!" -Han Solo ________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to use the Internet? Get fast, reliable, affordable Web access from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software here . ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from relay27.mx.aol.com (relay27.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.27]) by air06.mail.aol.com (v50.18) with SMTP; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 19:43:58 -0400 Received: from x9.boston.juno.com (x9.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.25]) by relay27.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA28822 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tplight@juno.com) by x9.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DQ6G2WU5; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 19:43:43 EDT To: Jeffl1965@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:39:57 -0500 Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Message-ID: <19981009.183958.3590.2.TPLight@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-8,11,16-17,19-26,28-31,35-43 From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 17:26:17 -0700 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > >>I don't think they're evil at all - I don't know, they just don't strike > >>me as being extraordinarily loyal. Chris does, however. (It could just > >>be because I like the episodes with Chris in them better than the ones > >>with Ginge and Lefty!) > > Well, I suppose you're right. Lefty was dumb(er) but a bit more of a > softy than Ginge. I suppose that had Col. Masters really had his way, and > could've kidnapped Ginge and Lefty,and threaten them, they might've broken > down, or Patricia (?) would've scanned their minds and possibly broke down any > restistance that they might've offered. I just hate to think that they'd turn > traitor willingly,but I guess it'll happen in a new story now.:) I could definitely see that happening. Or I could see them slipping, or doing something out of stupidity. Like, perhaps if they were short on cash, they might decide to contact Colonel Masters and have him leave off some money somewhere with a promise of giving him information about the TP once they got they money, but no intention of actually doing telling him anything. And then, once Colonel Masters outsmarted them, they might tell him out of fear. -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 09 Oct 1998 17:28:18 -0700 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > >>Seems a bit too close to Christmas... although I guess it's a plus since > >>most of us would already be off and could spend the day watching the > >>TP. What was the original intention of Boxing Day, anyway? I've never > >>heard of it except when seeing the name written on calendars. > > Its the day that alot of boxing goes on tele. But there is more to > it,but that's the only reason I've been told. Well, I guess that's no sillier than a lot of other holidays. Super Bowl Sunday is practically a holiday in the States. > > I think it was 30th April 1973 > > > > That could be a god date for us to celebrate. > > >> I think that would be a good day, too. Hmm... how to decide? :) > > nah, gotta be this one.It makes sense,unless you wanna celebrate the last > episode that Carol whined in? :) *giggle* I like the idea of celebrating the anniversary. I wonder how one goes about having an international holiday declared? :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SunStar77@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:51:07 EDT In a message dated 10/9/98 7:50:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jeffl1965@aol.com writes: << What was the original intention of Boxing Day, anyway? >> My history professor said it was a day when rich families would box up the left overs from their huge meals the day before and give them to either their servants or the poor, I can't remember. SunStar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: Fwd: TP stuff for me to type Date: 09 Oct 1998 21:01:36 EDT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_907981298_boundary Content-ID: <0_907981298@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-10-09 20:59:10 EDT, Jeffl1965 writes: << >> In a message dated 98-10-09 20:31:19 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 20:31:19 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > >>I don't think they're evil at all - I don't know, they just don't strike > >>me as being extraordinarily loyal. Chris does, however. (It could just > >>be because I like the episodes with Chris in them better than the ones > >>with Ginge and Lefty!) > > Well, I suppose you're right. Lefty was dumb(er) but a bit more of a > softy than Ginge. I suppose that had Col. Masters really had his way, and > could've kidnapped Ginge and Lefty,and threaten them, they might've broken > down, or Patricia (?) would've scanned their minds and possibly broke down any > restistance that they might've offered. I just hate to think that they'd turn > traitor willingly,but I guess it'll happen in a new story now.:) >> I could definitely see that happening. Or I could see them slipping, or >>doing something out of stupidity. Like, perhaps if they were short on >> cash, they might decide to contact Colonel Masters and have him leave >>off some money somewhere with a promise of giving him information about >>the TP once they got they money, but no intention of actually doing >>telling him anything. And then, once Colonel Masters outsmarted them, >>they might tell him out of fear. I agree. I suppose that's reasonable to expect. I just dont get to suspicious of the ''good guys'',and I do consider them to be part of the team. However, you are correct,as they are from a lower middle class area, i guess. Somewhere in the east end? I dont really recall where they were from exactly. >> In a message dated 98-10-09 20:31:22 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 98-10-09 20:31:22 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > >>Seems a bit too close to Christmas... although I guess it's a plus since > >>most of us would already be off and could spend the day watching the > >>TP. What was the original intention of Boxing Day, anyway? I've never > >>heard of it except when seeing the name written on calendars. > > Its the day that alot of boxing goes on tele. But there is more to > it,but that's the only reason I've been told. >> Well, I guess that's no sillier than a lot of other holidays. Super >>Bowl Sunday is practically a holiday in the States. Yeah, and it certainly is the noisiest of them all I think.:) Even the fireworks on the 4th stop after a while.:) > > I think it was 30th April 1973 > > > > That could be a god date for us to celebrate. > > >> I think that would be a good day, too. Hmm... how to decide? :) > > nah, gotta be this one.It makes sense,unless you wanna celebrate the last > episode that Carol whined in? :) >>*giggle* I like the idea of celebrating the anniversary. I wonder how >> one goes about having an international holiday declared? :) Hmmm.....good question. Ask Kenneth Starr, he's know what to do.:) Jeff >> --part0_907981298_boundary Content-ID: <0_907981298@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-path: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-10-09 20:30:50 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TP stuff for me to type Date: 98-10-09 20:30:50 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) To: Jeffl1965@aol.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > Hi Ariana! >> >> Hi Jeff! :) Hi again! I've decided to send you one big letter to answer all the comments so that I dont flood your mailbox with all 3 letters.:) But, I will still post to the list the other 2 and keep this one private,so you can just delete them when they show up.:) > Sure, I'd be glad to send it to you. I have several zines as well. Wendy > K. is going to try to get Diane Elliot, who wrote one HUGE zine that I have > that is pretty good. (Its a bit on the romantic side,and I'm just not much of > a romance reader. However, it is VERY good if you ever want to read it. Its > called ''Dreams of Destiny'',and it is a fanfict trying to close some of the > gap inbetween ''War of the Empires'' and 1988 when the zine takes place. >>I would love to read/type that, too, if Wendy doesn't have the time to >>type it (or Dianne doesn't have copy typed). I type at a little over >> 110 wpm, so it isn't a big deal for me. (My parents are always saying >>that I should give up getting A's in school and become a secretary (= ). Kewl! :) But dont joke, they do make pretty good money from what I understand,and having PC wordproccessing program knowledge is also a plus in the job market.:) Besides, if you can still enjoy typing, then you could also apply as a typist/proofreader/editor for a publishing company. It might be a LOT of hard work,but if you like it, then that's what counts,being happy in ANY job is always more inportant than money (most of the time) :-) > > I feel that this ought to be private. E-mail me, and I'll tell you. > I'd rather just talk about the TP here. :) > > >>You've really got me curious, now! > > Hee hee> :) well, please be patient now.:) >> Okay... :) :) Good! I'd hate to know that I was the reason that someone lost sleep worrying about something I said.:) > Here's all my information in exchange for yours ,( I have nothing to > hide,and any TP fan is a friend to me) :-) > > Jeff Lambing > PO Box 8728 > Shreveport, La. 71148-8728 > > (318)-687-7092 (unlisted,so 411 won't have it listed) >>All right - here's mine! >>Ariana Brill >>1077 Coyote Road >>Montecito, CA 93108 >>(805) 565-8999 >>I just moved a few months ago, so I doubt that's listed, either. Ok. :) My home address is: 9241 Savanna Drive Shreveport,La. 71118 I dont mind which you use,unless you are sending the stuff back. I use the POBox to keep things flat, and undamaged. It doesn't always work, as they seem to find a way to damage some things that you really dont want damaged.:) Its happended to me.:P > PS. If you want, We can either chat on the phone about TPI's problems, > or you can go over the letters and try to make sense of it all.:) > Name your poison:) >> Either is fine - I'm sure I could make a lot of it out from the letters, >>but I would be overjoyed to get a ring from you, as well :) Agreed. I too like to chat,and sometimes can't shut up,but other times i get tounge tied and cant thing of a darn thing to say.:) Then I end up repeating something I told the person before the last time we chatted. :) I guess sometimes drain bamage sets in ? :) >> In a message dated 98-10-09 20:31:19 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 20:31:19 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > >>I don't think they're evil at all - I don't know, they just don't strike > >>me as being extraordinarily loyal. Chris does, however. (It could just > >>be because I like the episodes with Chris in them better than the ones > >>with Ginge and Lefty!) > > Well, I suppose you're right. Lefty was dumb(er) but a bit more of a > softy than Ginge. I suppose that had Col. Masters really had his way, and > could've kidnapped Ginge and Lefty,and threaten them, they might've broken > down, or Patricia (?) would've scanned their minds and possibly broke down any > restistance that they might've offered. I just hate to think that they'd turn > traitor willingly,but I guess it'll happen in a new story now.:) >> I could definitely see that happening. Or I could see them slipping, or >>doing something out of stupidity. Like, perhaps if they were short on >> cash, they might decide to contact Colonel Masters and have him leave >>off some money somewhere with a promise of giving him information about >>the TP once they got they money, but no intention of actually doing >>telling him anything. And then, once Colonel Masters outsmarted them, >>they might tell him out of fear. I agree. I suppose that's reasonable to expect. I just dont get to suspicious of the ''good guys'',and I do consider them to be part of the team. However, you are correct,as they are from a lower middle class area, i guess. Somewhere in the east end? I dont really recall where they were from exactly. >> In a message dated 98-10-09 20:31:22 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 98-10-09 20:31:22 EDT From: saylormars@geocities.com (Ariana Brill) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > >>Seems a bit too close to Christmas... although I guess it's a plus since > >>most of us would already be off and could spend the day watching the > >>TP. What was the original intention of Boxing Day, anyway? I've never > >>heard of it except when seeing the name written on calendars. > > Its the day that alot of boxing goes on tele. But there is more to > it,but that's the only reason I've been told. >> Well, I guess that's no sillier than a lot of other holidays. Super >>Bowl Sunday is practically a holiday in the States. Yeah, and it certainly is the noisiest of them all I think.:) Even the fireworks on the 4th stop after a while.:) > > I think it was 30th April 1973 > > > > That could be a god date for us to celebrate. > > >> I think that would be a good day, too. Hmm... how to decide? :) > > nah, gotta be this one.It makes sense,unless you wanna celebrate the last > episode that Carol whined in? :) >>*giggle* I like the idea of celebrating the anniversary. I wonder how >> one goes about having an international holiday declared? :) Hmmm.....good question. Ask Kenneth Starr, he's know what to do.:) Jeff --part0_907981298_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:22:27 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 19:43:59 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 98-10-09 19:43:59 EDT From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) To: Jeffl1965@aol.com > > >>>I am also from the south ( Louisiana, where are you from?) >>As Stephen says to Cawston in Secret Weapon "I wouldn't tell you where I >> live, not in a million years." :) :) > > LOL! :) Cor Blimey, mate! 'spect you can't understand wot >those blokes >>what are on Grange Hill or The Eastenders, or >Coronation Street say >>either than, eh luv? :) You lot are >what we'd call thick as a brick! :) >>You know I can READ just fine and any accent you wish to type...I'm >>southern, not illiterate, MATE. I don't mind a fair deal of jesting, but >>that's uncalled for. BTW, I understand a great deal of Brit-speak, I have >> an ear disorder, MATE, that's why I can't handle it sometimes. I'm not >>stupid. No offense was intended. I'm sorry that you were offended. If you are so hyper sensitive about things that people have no idea about until you tell them, then perhaps you shouldn't be here, as written text doesn't reveal emotion very well,and if taken the wrong way can be blown so out of whack that it becomes a BIG problem. As a sountherner,(and i dont care where you're from, i could find out easily if I wanted to) I thought that the joke about accents would tickle you some,as I'm sure that you must get a few laughs from any northern friends that you do realtime phone converstations with. I've been kidded about mine before,and I really dont have one. My family from down south DO have a more pronounced accent,and it tickles me to hear them pronounce some words,as do any yankees I've heard. >>Hey, great!!I take back the rude things what I muttered >under me breath >>wot when I read wot your lot said. :) >>Nice to know you've cussed me out when I wasn't online. that too was aJOKE. I am sorry that you seem to be so sensitve. Why would you think that I'd attack you? I dont know you,and have no reason to attack you. Even now, while I could, I dont feel a need to . Get over it,ok? >>Well, only if you say PLEASE :) Otherwise, I'll send ya a >>synopisis in the morning:) >>I'll delete it. how mature. Guess you wont read this either. How can I offer an apology if you wont even let me explain? > >Yeah, well, i was bored by most of the NS. >>I was in certain scenes, but mind you it was intended for a certain >> audience. Very True. After Roger Price washed his hands of the NS, that gave you a hint about how he felt about it after stating in some interviews that he was pleased that so many people still liked the show. i guess he wanted to kill it off once and for all,just as he tried to do with YCDTOT during the last season or so. You did notice the flatulence and the remarks about Allisdar's penis size in some of his last episodes? Very strange if you ask me. >>Traitor :) actually I mistyped, I meant UNINFORMED, not >>uniformed. :) My mistake :) >>That's okay. Still, no kilts for me. Trekker-hood isn't a prerequisite to >>TPism. Nobody said I've got to like Star Trek. BTW, The convert many >>Trekkies thing was an in joke to Ariana and Geoff. I wasn't offending >>anyone. Nobody ever said it was. You seem to have a irritating predilection for assuming facts not in evidence and trying to turn it into a negative statement. I wasn't offended, I was merely attempting to correct a misnomer started by the mundanes in a futile attempt to create an illusion that all SF fans are social misfits who have no life other than quoting lines from their favorite show/film,much as posters do here. i find the quotes funny,and do not think the poster to be a mongoloid becasue he/she quotes Han Solo rather than Wm. Shakespear. I'm still not offended by the staement,and I accept your explaination with no problem. I understood that it was some kind of ''family'' joke,and had no problem with it. Best wishes, J Star Wars Megan **** "Either shut him up or shut him down!" -Han Solo ________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to use the Internet? Get fast, reliable, affordable Web access from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software here . ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from relay27.mx.aol.com (relay27.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.27]) by air06.mail.aol.com (v50.18) with SMTP; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 19:43:58 -0400 Received: from x9.boston.juno.com (x9.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.25]) by relay27.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA28822 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tplight@juno.com) by x9.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DQ6G2WU5; Fri, 09 Oct 1998 19:43:43 EDT To: Jeffl1965@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:39:57 -0500 Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Message-ID: <19981009.183958.3590.2.TPLight@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-8,11,16-17,19-26,28-31,35-43 From: tplight@juno.com (Megan R Freeman) >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Fwd: TP stuff for me to type Date: 09 Oct 1998 21:08:13 EDT Hey, what's up with the message? it printed everything I deleted!!!!!! What happened here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: Fwd: TP stuff for me to type DELETE @ PREVIOUS MESSAGES Date: 09 Oct 1998 21:09:36 EDT DELETE previous 2 messages. AOL software screw up!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 10 Oct 1998 11:38:33 +1000 > From: Megan R Freeman > > The beauty of the NS was that it wasn't faithful. It broke rules, took > chances, and turned out pretty good. Can you see Stephen getting Tyso to > wear a dress? As a matter of fact - I find it very easy to see that happening. I'm not sure how readily Tyso would cooperate, but I can definitely see those two characters interacting in that way. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 10 Oct 1998 11:51:01 +1000 > From: Jeffl1965@aol.com > > That is a possibility. I hope that if someone has any of the missing > novels (ones I dont have) or any of the ''Look-In'' or any of the Thames- > TV magazines published at that time might have some sort of reference as > to what made the TP move the Lab for story reasons. Yep - in the novelisation of 'The Lost Gods', page 13: "The new Lab was born out of necessity. After the Secret Intelligence Service had discovered the whereabouts of the old one the Tomorrow People had never felt secure, in spite of the defences put up by TIM: a Spectra Shift to hide the Lab and a Force Field barrier to protect it. So they had decided to move, and at the same time build themselves a larger and more comfortable Headquarters. They all had their own sleeping cabins as well as a spacious living area, and separate sections for work and research." > One ''universe'' of TPFANFICT that I've read has the new Lab orbiting > the Earth, hidden from SAPS by a ''spectra-shift'' (cloaking device) and > most of the TP live there full-time in order to remain hidden from the > governments and anti-TP terrorist groups. We have very little information on the location of the new Lab (unlike the original Lab (-8), but it is on Earth - this is seen in 'The Thargon Menace' where the Lab is affected by the earth tremors caused by the crash of the Thargon space craft. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 21:55:06 EDT In a message dated 98-10-09 21:50:09 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 98-10-09 21:50:09 EDT From: drednort@alphalink.com.au (Shaun Hately) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com > From: Jeffl1965@aol.com > > That is a possibility. I hope that if someone has any of the missing > novels (ones I dont have) or any of the ''Look-In'' or any of the Thames- > TV magazines published at that time might have some sort of reference as > to what made the TP move the Lab for story reasons. >>Yep - in the novelisation of 'The Lost Gods', page 13: Kewl. :) Now if only you'd send me the whole book on disc...........:) > One ''universe'' of TPFANFICT that I've read has the new Lab orbiting > the Earth, hidden from SAPS by a ''spectra-shift'' (cloaking device) and > most of the TP live there full-time in order to remain hidden from the > governments and anti-TP terrorist groups. >> We have very little information on the location of the new Lab (unlike the >>original Lab (-8), but it is on Earth - this is seen in 'The Thargon >>Menace' where the Lab is affected by the earth tremors caused by the crash >> of the Thargon space craft. Kewl again.:) The Lab I'm speaking of is newer than that one. It was supposedly being built in the late 1980's to prepare for the ''Great Mass Breakout'' referred to by Peter the Time Guardian in the OS. J ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: TPDIS: Hey, where'd Ginge go? Date: 10 Oct 1998 12:07:34 +1000 I've been thinking about Ginge and Chris (and I do have a fanfic going where how Chris finds out about the TP is explained (-8 ), and I have a few observations on Ginge's 'character' (in the moral sense) and on why he became a good guy. This is all MHO. It seems to me on viewing the first season that Ginge has a genuine soft spot for Kenny - he likes the other TP but he seems to really like Kenny - he jokes with him and teases him quite a bit. I wonder if Ginge sees something in Kenny that remind him of himself. If we look at the four TP of the first season, it seems that Kenny is the only member of the 'working class' among them. Stephen's father is a scientist, Carol is the daughter of journalists, and while John is the son of a Police Sergeant, his mode of speech, and manner of behaviour seems generally removed from the normal working class attitudes to me (again, I will be expanding on this in a fic). Kenny's mother is a nurse and he appears to have no father - while I doubt he is actually poor, I do think he seems unashamedly working class. It seems to me that Ginge is also from that type of background and so he may have more in common with Kenny than the others and also like Kenny more than the others. This might explain his disappearance (in terms of the show, not real life) after season 1. Kenny is gone - he's at the Trig, and we are left with John and Stephen (joined by Liz). Ginge may simply have found he no longer had much in common with the Tomorrow People and moved away from them. Chris appears, and I think he likes Liz a great deal - not necessarily in a romantic sense but certainly as a friend. I also think Chris is brighter than Ginge and I think he also has a very clear idea of what the Tomorrow People mean for mankind - he sees things in a much more detailed way than Ginge did, and realises the Tomorrow People must be protected. Witness his passionate speech to the Prime Minister in 'Secret Weapon' where he explains why the Tomorrow People must be protected. Ginge protected the Tomorrow People because they were his friends. I think Chris has an additional reason - he sees their potential and the fact that the world needs them. I also wonder, in terms of Ginge's relationship with Kenny, whether Ginge had also been without a father as a child. If he had, it is possible that he was seeking to give Kenny that type of support - having missed his own father, he was trying to give Kenny what he lacked. Such an attitude might explain why Chris seems more educated than Ginge - Ginge may have given up part of his own chance of an education to support his little brother after their father disappeared for whatever reason. That would explain why Chris seems brighter (at least to me) and also might lend insight into Ginge's character - he is someone who wants to look after others. Chris, Kenny - even Lefty (would you let Lefty out on the street alone?). All conjecture that may pop up in later fics. Any comments? Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Hey, where'd Ginge go? Date: 09 Oct 1998 19:46:45 -0700 Shaun Hately wrote: > All conjecture that may pop up in later fics. Any comments? That's actually a really good explanation. I'll have to watch my first season tapes again when they're returned to me - I haven't noticed some of the things you have (well, Chris did strike me as more intelligent than Ginge). However, I'm not so sure that Kenny doesn't have a father. If they are in fact working class (which I agree, is very likely) he could just have a very busy father who is never around. It could produce a similar effect. Does Kenny ever say anything about his family? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 19:55:15 -0700 Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > Kewl. :) Now if only you'd send me the whole book on > disc...........:) Actually, Shaun does have The Visitor and the first two stories in Three in Three typed up. And I'm working on typing the last bit in Three in Three. > DELETE previous 2 messages. AOL software screw up!!!! So, what else is new? Try going into technical service - they are oh-so-helpful :) The average user is probably aware of more AOL bugs then they are! -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ana isabel Sacristan Rock Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 22:55:29 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Ariana Brill wrote: > Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > > > I plan to > > send those old interviews to someone so that they can go over them,and > > possibly get them re-typed and then I'll pass them along to everyone who wants > > one, or I will try to xerox them instead. They are badly damaged from a fire > > we had several years ago,and most of the TP material I had was badly damaged > > by the water and some of the smoke. So some might be better off being retyped > > rather than xeroxed. Any volunteers????? :) > > Oooh! I'll do it! I'll do it! (Megan may be the most enthusiastic > beta-reader, but I'm going for most enthusiastic typist (= ) > How about putting them on one the Web pages? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Why we like Doomsday Men Date: 09 Oct 1998 23:14:20 CDT >>Ginge and Lefty were bound to be > > lousy at keeping this secret. > I suppose,but I think that Ginge and certainly Lefty, were a bit more >honorable than that. They did help the TP at some great personal risk, if I >recall correctly(and if not, I'm sure that some kind soul will correct me),so >I think only if they were actually harmed,or hypnotized would they only reveal >what they know. I know that they were hooligans,but not quite as tough or >evil as you would think if you judged them by their appearnce only. > > > > Jeff I didn't really picture them telling anyone because they were tough or evil... they just seem to be the type to brag about it to people they thought they could trust. I can imagine a friend asking where they had been lately and them trying to shrug off the question... but if the point was pressed... especially if they started in to teasing them about what they may have been doing... I can picture the walls tumbling down as they set the record straight. Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 09 Oct 1998 23:32:26 CDT >*giggle* I like the idea of celebrating the anniversary. I wonder how >one goes about having an international holiday declared? :) > > >-- >(~.~) Ariana Who needs it declared by anyone but us? Reality is no fun anyway. ;) Kristy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Newman Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 10 Oct 1998 08:58:08 +0100 > > How about Boxing Day (Dec. 26) ? That way the fans who wish to argue the > OS > > vs. NS can have a go about it when their egos get in the way? :) I'm sure > > that the ''Prez'' of TPI (Totally Pathetic Idiots) would love to get in on > > that one!! :) > > >>Seems a bit too close to Christmas... although I guess it's a plus since > >>most of us would already be off and could spend the day watching the > >>TP. What was the original intention of Boxing Day, anyway? I've never > >>heard of it except when seeing the name written on calendars. > > Its the day that alot of boxing goes on tele. But there is more to > it,but that's the only reason I've been told. > > > I think it was 30th April 1973 > > > > That could be a god date for us to celebrate. > > >> I think that would be a good day, too. Hmm... how to decide? :) > > nah, gotta be this one.It makes sense,unless you wanna celebrate the last > episode that Carol whined in? :) > > J AFAIK Boxing Day has it's origin in Victorian society (any historians out there please help me on this) The presents were not opened on the religious holiday but given in boxes on the day after christmas. I have heard my grandfather saying that he will give a christmas box (i.e. a tip) to a local service e.g. the postman or refuse collector. I've never seen any boxing on that day, unless you count that the postman never thought the tip was big enough! The comment about the rich giving left overs to the poor in boxes also fits in with this idea. Lazerus...This is list telepathy didn't we have this same conversation just a few days ago? The day we choose could a public holiday as this would give us all time off work/school etc. But most of us are visiting family or friends on that day and I know for sure that my mother would never agree to watching the TP instead of the queen :) Jackie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Hey, where'd Ginge go? Date: 10 Oct 1998 19:20:16 +1000 > From: Ariana Brill > > That's actually a really good explanation. I'll have to watch my first > season tapes again when they're returned to me - I haven't noticed some > of the things you have (well, Chris did strike me as more intelligent > than Ginge). However, I'm not so sure that Kenny doesn't have a > father. If they are in fact working class (which I agree, is very > likely) he could just have a very busy father who is never around. It > could produce a similar effect. Does Kenny ever say anything about his > family? My information on Kenny's family was drawn from memory of what is said in 'The Visitor'. I've now looked it up and it is stated that his father had died when he was small (page 13): "Kenny's father had died when he was very small. He and his sister lived with their mother, a hospital sister who had come from West Africa as a teenager to begin her training as a nurse." Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Hey, where'd Ginge go? Date: 10 Oct 1998 10:30:20 -0500 >"Kenny's father had died when he was very small. He and >his sister lived with their mother, a hospital sister who >had come from West Africa as a teenager to begin her >training as a nurse." When in doubt, just get somebody to quote a novelisation. BTW, I think that Chris was smarter, but it seems as though sometimes he did things Ginge would never do. Chris tried to show off with a matter transporter in DM. Ginge wouldn't try and step on the TP's toes that way. Also, Chris seems to be a bit less star struck than Ginge. He also is very emotional at times. He gets extremely violent and upset at the idea of not being able to rescue John from the dungeon basement place in TBaTG. He also gives a nice speech to the Prime Minister in Secret Weapon. I like Chris... Megan **** If I could tell the world just one thing I'd tell them that we're all ok -Jewel ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 09 Oct 1998 22:05:00 -0700 Kristy Fahrenwald wrote: > Who needs it declared by anyone but us? Reality is no fun anyway. ;) Oh, I'm just interested in getting out of school! :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Hey, where'd Ginge go? Date: 10 Oct 1998 09:53:56 -0700 As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done (aka Megan) wrote: > BTW, I think that Chris was smarter, but it seems as though sometimes > he did things Ginge would never do. Chris tried to show off with a matter > transporter in DM. Ginge wouldn't try and step on the TP's toes that way. > Also, Chris seems to be a bit less star struck than Ginge. He also is > very emotional at times. He gets extremely violent and upset at the idea > of not being able to rescue John from the dungeon basement place in > TBaTG. He also gives a nice speech to the Prime Minister in Secret > Weapon. Chris definitely seems more comfortable with the TP. It seems as though he feels as though he's one of them, even without the special powers (hence Kristy's idea to want to be the Sap friend). So he's more inclined to risk himself to help them, just as they do for each other. This may have simply been a development of Ginge's character - I don't really know the story of why the actor left, and how far in advance they wrote the scripts and stories. -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 10 Oct 1998 09:54:16 -0700 Jack Newman wrote: > The day we choose could a public holiday as this would give us all time off > work/school etc. But most of us are visiting family or friends on that day and I > know for sure that my mother would never agree to watching the TP instead of the > queen :) Well, it could always be a public holiday that no one really does anything special on (in the states there's Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, and Columbus Day, just to name a few) but I'm not sure if there's any international holidays like that. Or we could all just call in sick :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michele Bumbarger Subject: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 10 Oct 1998 21:59:59 -0400 Right now, (Oct 10, 9:59PM EST) in the US on a very -- well cheesy is the word that comes to mind -- movie on US Sci-Fi. Movie: Habitat -- Christian Tessier has a role. Laters, Michele _________________________________________________________________ "I laugh in the face of danger. . .Then I hide until it goes away." --Xander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Monica Lewinsky" Subject: Re: TPDIS: why we like Doomsday Men Date: 10 Oct 1998 19:05:12 -0700 Ooooh, *I'd* like to see Stephen and Tyso play dress-up! They can up my dress any day of the week! Ooo, that Stephen makes me think of Billy! I need to make a phone call... Love, Monica Whaat!!! Have you tried The Doghouse??! Get your FREE WEB-BASED EMAIL account at: http://www.thedoghousemail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 11 Oct 1998 13:40:28 -0500 On Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:59:59 -0400 Michele Bumbarger writes: >Right now, (Oct 10, 9:59PM EST) in the US on a very -- well cheesy is >the >word that comes to mind -- movie on US Sci-Fi. > >Movie: Habitat -- Christian Tessier has a role. He also has a fairly big role in Angels in the Endzone. He plays the main bad guy, who bets on high school games and then loses money because the Angels are helping the football team. He gets arrested at the end of the movie (awww!). The move is dorky beyond any kind of divine comprehension, but it's nice to know Christian Tessier can act. And his hair is waaay short. Yes I watched it, but only to get an objective view of Christian Tessier. Habitat wasn't near as bad as AITE. At least it was science- fiction!! I dream of Megabyte, Megan **** My lover's charms are in a box Beneath my bed Piece by piece I'll cherish them Untill the end -Garbage "My Lover's Box" ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 11 Oct 1998 23:22:47 +0100 tplight@juno.com wrote: > The move is dorky beyond any kind of divine comprehension, It's as corny as any bad-team-becomes-good sports film. > but it's nice to know Christian Tessier can act. And his hair is waaay > short. But longer than in series 3. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 11 Oct 1998 18:31:06 -0500 Responding to the message of <1998100923035969182@zetnet.co.uk> from tpdis@lists.xmission.com: > Hmm, the full details come from a conversation that was on a confidential > basis, and although some of it has come out through other sources I am > still going to keep the confidence as I can't always remember what has > not been revealed elsewhere and by others, I seem to remember reading in the one newsletter I ever got from TPI something about a dog and a rock star. That probably explains the Jessie as the inept lassie-wanna-be scene. > A more simple inside joke is in the end sequence when Lee Pressman appears > as a Brian Lucifer band member. Look out for the bandana-wearing guitar > player. Does he play with Danny John-Jules too? Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy O'Neal" Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 12 Oct 1998 16:57:07 -0500 (CDT) I sighted that one on the original veiwing... Tee Hee.. :) And I thought Habitat was really good.. *Adapting* to his surroundings to make humanity stronger, and for survival.. Hmmm.. Very similar plot line there.. :) Oh! I watched the rest of Culex, 1 1/2 eps. of Monsoon, and LS since my last veiwing in '95 (Thanks Arpi! :) )... Monsoon had a promising start(What happened?), and LS wasn't as bad as I thought I remmbered of it. I have a couple of things the NS TP do that is bad.. They have a bad continuity problem. They never explain where people/powers go! Lisa and Kev just *disappear* (I know the real story), thier healing powers *go away*, and they always forget to teleport at crucial times! Differing writer's ideas, or just bad writing? You decide! Anywho, see you in the chatroom! Tim O'Neal/KishiSankaku On Sat, 10 Oct 1998, Michele Bumbarger wrote: > Right now, (Oct 10, 9:59PM EST) in the US on a very -- well cheesy is the > word that comes to mind -- movie on US Sci-Fi. > > Movie: Habitat -- Christian Tessier has a role. > > Laters, > Michele > _________________________________________________________________ > "I laugh in the face of danger. . .Then I hide until it goes away." > --Xander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy O'Neal" Subject: TPDIS: Oh, and... Date: 12 Oct 1998 16:59:09 -0500 (CDT) I also forgot to mention the *change* Jade's dog goes through.. Poor dog! :) Tim O'Neal/KishiSankaku ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 13 Oct 1998 08:26:00 +1000 (EST) On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Timothy O'Neal wrote: > I sighted that one on the original veiwing... Tee Hee.. :) > > And I thought Habitat was really good.. *Adapting* to his surroundings to > make humanity stronger, and for survival.. Hmmm.. Very similar plot line > there.. :) > > Oh! I watched the rest of Culex, 1 1/2 eps. of Monsoon, and LS since my > last veiwing in '95 (Thanks Arpi! :) )... Monsoon had a promising > start(What happened?), and LS wasn't as bad as I thought I remmbered of > it. I have a couple of things the NS TP do that is bad.. They have a bad > continuity problem. They never explain where people/powers go! Lisa and > Kev just *disappear* (I know the real story), thier healing powers *go > away*, and they always forget to teleport at crucial times! Differing > writer's ideas, or just bad writing? You decide! I think a lot of it is the different writers take on things, and also, sometimes, a matter of the story working. If the TP always teleport, how do you put them in danger? If they are not in danger, you don't have much of a story. The healing powers we had in the first story will totally destroy the premise for this one. So let's ignore them. Obviously you can write good stories without needing to resort to such tactics, but it's often harder, and production schedules, etc, being what they are, often the time can't be taken in any show. Personally I like the inconsistencies - I like trying to come up with ways of explaining them. Dreadnought ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: TPDIS: Oh, and... Date: 13 Oct 1998 08:27:58 +1000 (EST) On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Timothy O'Neal wrote: > I also forgot to mention the *change* Jade's dog goes through.. Poor > dog! :) I'm wondering if that's the same change I noticed? Of course, my own idea is that Jade just has an incredibly rapid turnover of pets (probably from not feeding them!) So it may not be the same dog. (And it's not as bad as Spot the Cat in ST:TNG which actually changes breeds!) Dreadnought ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Oh, and... Date: 12 Oct 1998 18:33:15 EDT In a message dated 98-10-12 18:28:26 EDT, you write: > Of course, my own idea is that Jade just has an incredibly rapid turnover > of pets (probably from not feeding them!) So it may not be the same dog. grrrrr! NO ONE insults my Jade and gets away with it! I mean... -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Oh, and... Date: 12 Oct 1998 15:24:07 -0700 Timothy O'Neal wrote: > > I also forgot to mention the *change* Jade's dog goes through.. Poor > dog! :) I've wondered about that, too. I think she probably gets a new dog - Bonnie was brutally murdered by our good friend Dr Culex :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy O'Neal" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Oh, and... Date: 12 Oct 1998 18:08:30 -0500 (CDT) Tim O'Neal On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Ariana Brill wrote: > Timothy O'Neal wrote: > > > > I also forgot to mention the *change* Jade's dog goes through.. Poor > > dog! :) > > I've wondered about that, too. I think she probably gets a new dog - > Bonnie was brutally murdered by our good friend Dr Culex :) Bonnie was a short, black curly-haired, wirey puppy. Gypsy is a white, straight haired, big dog.. There's a large difference in the two. :) Timothy O'Neal/KishiSankaku ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Oh, and... Date: 12 Oct 1998 19:09:13 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Shaun Owen Hately wrote: > On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Timothy O'Neal wrote: > > > I also forgot to mention the *change* Jade's dog goes through.. Poor > > dog! :) > > I'm wondering if that's the same change I noticed? > > Of course, my own idea is that Jade just has an incredibly rapid turnover > of pets (probably from not feeding them!) So it may not be the same dog. > > (And it's not as bad as Spot the Cat in ST:TNG which actually changes > breeds!) When did Spot change breeds? I thought she was always a ginger / yellow tabby cat. Except when she changed species, to an iguana, of course. > > Dreadnought > > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM J M A R C E L L J. E L S E G O O D J J J J Quote 1: "Forget belief systems..forget the perimeters of rational J J thinking as it so smugly is called; feel, my friend, feel..." J J Quote 2: "Mrs. Nordberg, I think we can save your husband's arm... J J Where would you like it sent?" J J Quote 3: "Smithers, there's a rocket in my pocket." ... "You don't J J have to tell me, Sir." J J J EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 13 Oct 1998 16:45:14 EDT >They never explain where people/powers go! Lisa and >Kev just *disappear* (I know the real story) What was the story? I know Kristen Ariza went away because she wanted to be a doctor or something, but what happened with Adam Pierce? Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 13 Oct 1998 18:53:23 -0500 >What was the story? I know Kristen Ariza went away >because she wanted to be a doctor or something, but what >happened with Adam Pierce? From what I know, he left because he felt his character Kevin wasn't going anywhere. The truth/untruth of that, I don't know. CS Stayed Though! Megan ***** "Now I know why the copy machines don't work around us! They're afraid, they hear us coming and they roll over and play dead!" -Anne Taylor ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 13 Oct 1998 20:53:12 PDT >From owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Tue Oct 13 13:56:36 1998 > >>They never explain where people/powers go! Lisa and >>Kev just *disappear* (I know the real story) > >What was the story? I know Kristen Ariza went away because she wanted to be a >doctor or something, but what happened with Adam Pierce? > >Amy :) > (Just to be nitpicky it's Pearce, I believe.) If I recal the story I heard correctly: Initially the writers had to add in Kevin's character on Nickolodeon's insistence as the execs at Nick felt the show needed a young character that their younger audience could relate to, so the show would appeal to th 8-12 crowd as well as the 13-16 year old group (a much narrower demographic). The writers, not liking this, put Kevin into a coma five minutes into Culex and didn't bring him out of it until the last two minutes. I think he had a total of ten lines in the entire serial. He wasn't too thrilled and wanted out. The Thames execs didn't try too hard to dissaude him. mike Greyfalcon aka Mike Matott Nothing is stranger than reality ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Sighting! Date: 13 Oct 1998 23:01:49 +0100 AmyH3x4@aol.com wrote: > >They never explain where people/powers go! Lisa and > >Kev just *disappear* (I know the real story) > What was the story? I know Kristen Ariza went away because she wanted to be a > doctor or something, but what happened with Adam Pierce? Two factors: his friendship with Megabyte was thought to be improbable with the age difference, and the actor himself was not well regarded by some. Indeed originally he would not have appeared at all in Culex. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: TPDIS: Re: TPFICT: Stranded in Space (1/1) / List telepathy Date: 14 Oct 1998 20:48:42 PDT >From: Caroline Fales >Subject: TPFICT: Stranded in Space (1/1) > >"Knock it off you two or no more reruns of MacGyver!" Mike said >sternly. > >The two robots immediately fell to apologizing, "Oh please, Mike, >not that. What will we do if we can't watch MacGyver escaped >death-defying situations with only chewing gum, paper clips, and >string?" > It scares me that I was reading this while a MacGyver rerun is playing in the background. mike :-) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Caroline Fales Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: TPFICT: Stranded in Space (1/1) / List telepathy Date: 15 Oct 1998 03:01:28 -0400 At 08:48 PM 10/14/98 PDT, you wrote: >>From: Caroline Fales >>Subject: TPFICT: Stranded in Space (1/1) > >> >>"Knock it off you two or no more reruns of MacGyver!" Mike said >>sternly. >> >>The two robots immediately fell to apologizing, "Oh please, Mike, >>not that. What will we do if we can't watch MacGyver escaped >>death-defying situations with only chewing gum, paper clips, and >>string?" >> > >It scares me that I was reading this while a MacGyver rerun is playing >in the background. LOL! I'm psychic! This proves it! Not only can I tell whenever the phone is about to ring and finish sentences for people I've never met but I figure out what people are watching! Tee hee!:) Sorry, waaaaay too much MST3k and caffeine. Hope you enjoyed the story! Caroline ________ "You were destined to die; it was written." "What can I say? I flunked the written." --The Master and Buffy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Romana3@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 15 Oct 1998 16:22:10 EDT Well I have to say that at first I did not care for the OS. it went to slow and it didn't show a lot of things that they did... You had to sit threw like about three of the stories to even see half of what they did.. Rather sad.. And I would like to have known more about Adam.. He said that he went home to get the tent and clothes and what not but after the first eps. you hear nothing more abot his family or any thing.. Does any one know any thing else about him? It's that big empty void that many TV series do to you.... Romana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Romana3@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 15 Oct 1998 17:02:19 EDT Since every one seame to be on the subject of tapes.. IF there was any way possible I would LOVE to get some tapes as well. I DID have the NS but stupid me goes and tapes over ALL of them! How dumb could I get! Well I would be interested in both series esp. the Original ones because I have never seen them which is very sad. They sound soo good. Now if the sets are any thing like Doctor Who, I will enjoy that very much and if the clothes are the same... I won't laugh too hard.. But I highly doubt that they use bubble wrap on a regular basis. :) Romana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Romana3@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 15 Oct 1998 18:40:07 EDT >Or we could all just call in sick :) Umm this could cause a problem for those of us who are still in school, under parents rule, and the school only lets you miss 10 days with a doctor note, or if you are out of state or something like that... I missed three because of that and I am going to miss more because I am going to England over winter break so, it's going to be a bit hard to get me back from there right?.. What about November 23.. To me this holds a very special date.. Some of you may know what I mean others may not.. Hint: Ever seen Doctor Who? Romana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 15 Oct 1998 21:54:24 PDT >From owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Thu Oct 15 15:46:52 1998 >From: Romana3@aol.com > What >about November 23.. To me this holds a very special date.. Some of you may >know what I mean others may not.. Hint: Ever seen Doctor Who? Hmm. I'm a Whovian and I'm missing the significance of this. "A Strange Child" wasn't aired on that date, was it? Was it the Doctor's birthday? I'm dying to know. Oblig TP/suggestion - A holiday that doesn't have (much) religious significance and yet most everyone has it off is New Year's eve or New Year's day. A TP New Year's party might be an interesting thing - after all, if they are the next stage in human evolution, it's kind of ushering in the future. And just think, in two years, it's the next millenium. Oodles, of neat possibilities. Greyfalcon aka Mike Matott Nothing is stranger than reality ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeffe Boats" Subject: TPDIS: Am I just seeing double? Date: 16 Oct 1998 00:56:19 EDT ***TP de-lurk warning! Howdy, y'all. :) I just received a bulging boxful of the original series episodes from a most generous and charming source, and I've been watching them in order. And I noticed something that I found a bit odd. Episode 2 of "The Blue and the Green" features a brief scene where Liz walks beneath a porch ledge, and two women nudge a flowerpot off it, which nearly hits her before shattering on the ground. Sort of an inconsequential scene probably added only to heighten the atmosphere of the episode. What catches my attention are those two women -- they bear a striking resemblence to the evil twins working for Dr. Culex in the new series' "The Culex Experiment." Are they the same pair? Can anyone verify or dismiss? Well, that was my interesting tidbit with which to out myself as a Tomorrow Person fan. I grew up on them, back in the day when we used to get the Movie Channel and Nickelodeon free with the other channels 2 through 13 (this was a while ago). I watched my first episodes of the Tomorrow People on a TV where you still had to turn the knobs manually. Like, stone age, eh? ;) Maybe I'll get around to writing some fanfic one of these days, I have some ideas. Until then, if you're inclined, feel free to check out my web page(s). I have a mischievous congregation of my own characters, the Bonavengers, who you may like despite their complete lack of superpowers: http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~jbbz Jauntily yours, Jeffe Boats ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Newman Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 16 Oct 1998 06:31:30 +0100 Romana3@aol.com wrote: > I missed three because of that and I am going to miss more because I am going to > England over winter break so, it's going to be a bit hard to get me back from there > right?.. Come watch TP with me Romana....You are very welcome, I have most of the original series. Visit me if you are in the area. There will be another list member staying here at that time too... :))) Jackie -- "May your senses be enlightened and your dreams be fulfilled." Traditional Manyarnern Greeting ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 16 Oct 1998 07:12:01 +0100 "Michael Matott" wrote: > Hmm. I'm a Whovian Ugh - how I hate that word :) > and I'm missing the significance of this. "A > Strange Child" wasn't aired on that date, was it? No, but "An Unearthly Child" was. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan C Day Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 16 Oct 1998 09:16:44 -0400 (EDT) > Umm this could cause a problem for those of us who are still in school, under > parents rule, and the school only lets you miss 10 days with a doctor note, or > if you are out of state or something like that... I missed three because of > that and I am going to miss more because I am going to England over winter > break so, it's going to be a bit hard to get me back from there right?.. What > about November 23.. To me this holds a very special date.. Some of you may > know what I mean others may not.. Hint: Ever seen Doctor Who? E-Space has e-mail? Well, I suppose that makes sense. :) :) (Hint: Another Dr. Who reference. :) You'd need access to a TARDIS if you wanted to make it the evening of Nov. 23rd 1963. :) Personally, I wish someone -did- have access to a TARDIS, so that they could make backup copies of a certain 100 or so tapes. :) You only get 10 days sickness per year? Urk! My sympathies. I hope someone's told the bacteria & viruses this, or it could produce some real misunderstandings. Hey! I've an idea! How about everyone on the list campaigning to have November 23rd a recognised national (or international) telefantasy holiday? (Yeah, yeah, I know, but it'd be great if it could work. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 16 Oct 1998 15:21:35 -0500 >Umm this could cause a problem for those of us who are >still in school, under parents rule, and the school only >lets you miss 10 days with a doctor note, or if you are >out of state or something like that Unless you're in the land of the terminally stupid like I am, and you only get 9 days max, you fail the course, you flunk the grade, you fail high school, and wahlah, you're a genuine flunkie! But So far I haven't missed a school day in six school years. I'm terminally stupid and forget that they do let you out (rarely, but they do) if you're throwing out. >that and I am going to miss more because I am going to >England over winter break TOO LUCKY! I wanna go to England! Can I go as luggage? >What about November 23... This isn't a good date, it's too close to my dad's B-DAY! He just *had* to get born close to that date? He's not even a DW fan! How about May 21? That's the day I get out of school...We start August 7th, so It's a long ways off... Holiday Much Needed... Megan Vacation@need.one.NOW **** "You don't need a student to help you clean the stage up, you need the Armed Forces!" -Tasha Debree ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 16 Oct 1998 17:09:38 -0500 Responding to the message of from tpdis@lists.xmission.com: > Hey! I've an idea! How about everyone on the list campaigning to have > November 23rd a recognised national (or international) telefantasy > holiday? (Yeah, yeah, I know, but it'd be great if it could work. :) You think the over-the-edge Trekkies* and the more hard core Trekkers are going to stand for that? *I* think Dr. Who is the right choice (either that or Isaac Asimov's b-day:), but they wouldn't. Of course, in an ideal world, it would be um, March 25 I think (I'm trying to remember the first airing of ep 1 of "Slaves of Jedikiah", but I know I'm mucking that up). Actually, I like Mike M's idea of New Year's because I'd always pictured this as a big day for the TP (expect fanfic about it at some point). And I *definitely* vote for TPcon 2000. Tigger *My definition: Trekkie= scary Star Trek fan who knows way too much and wears Starfleet Uniforms and/or alein make-up (not like, a Bajoran earing, like the nose bumps:) in any capacity other than 1) Conventions, 2) Halloween, 3) Costume Parties. Trekkers are any Star Trek fan who doesn't meet those criteria. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 16 Oct 1998 19:27:28 CDT >first airing of ep 1 of "Slaves of Jedikiah" >Actually, I like Mike M's idea of New Year's because I'd always pictured this as >a big day for the TP (expect fanfic about it at some point). And I *definitely* >vote for TPcon 2000. Got to be one of the two. >*My definition: Trekkie= scary Star Trek fan who knows way too much and wears >Starfleet Uniforms and/or alein make-up (not like, a Bajoran earing, like the >nose bumps:) in any capacity other than 1) Conventions, 2) Halloween, 3) Costume >Parties. >Trekkers are any Star Trek fan who doesn't meet those criteria. Same here. The term is still valid... just more specialized. Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 16 Oct 1998 22:17:20 EDT In a message dated 98-10-16 20:28:25 EDT, you write: > >first airing of ep 1 of "Slaves of Jedikiah" Let's celebrate it on March 21st! (my b-day =) > >Actually, I like Mike M's idea of New Year's because I'd always > pictured this as > >a big day for the TP (expect fanfic about it at some point). And I > *definitely* > >vote for TPcon 2000. > > Got to be one of the two. TPcon2k sounds awesome! > >*My definition: Trekkie= scary Star Trek fan who knows way too much and > wears > >Starfleet Uniforms and/or alein make-up (not like, a Bajoran earing, > like the > >nose bumps:) in any capacity other than 1) Conventions, 2) Halloween, > 3) Costume > >Parties. > >Trekkers are any Star Trek fan who doesn't meet those criteria. > > Same here. The term is still valid... just more specialized. I think you have it backwards. when I liked star trek I was NOT a trekker and I only wore a starfleet uniform to a convention (and I was in 4th grade...) -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 16 Oct 1998 21:06:37 PDT >From owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Fri Oct 16 00:17:14 1998 >X-ZSender: jeremy.rogers@zetnet.co.uk > "Michael Matott" wrote: > >> Hmm. I'm a Whovian > >Ugh - how I hate that word :) I like it much better than Trekker or Trekkie (neither of which I will admit being.) > >> and I'm missing the significance of this. "A >> Strange Child" wasn't aired on that date, was it? > >No, but "An Unearthly Child" was. > Ugh. What a terrible gaffe. (Can I at least make up for it if I say I know the year Dr. Who first started was 1963?) mike (hiding in shame) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 17 Oct 1998 11:14:57 -0700 Okay - I thought it would be fun to put a poll up on a web site to get an idea of which date is most popular for our 'official TP holiday.' So far we've got the suggestions of: March 21st (Geoffy-chan's birthday) December 26th (Boxing Day) April 30th (TP's anniversary) November 23rd (Something to do with Doctor Who that I'm not clear on) One of these doesn't seem too serious of a suggestion (I'm not naming any names, Geoffy-chan (= ), but I'll leave it there anyway. Were there any other suggestions that I missed? Anything anyone wants to add before I put up the poll? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 17 Oct 1998 11:00:46 -0700 Geoffy-chan (Latimer84@aol.com) wrote: > I think you have it backwards. when I liked star trek I was NOT a trekker > and I only wore a starfleet uniform to a convention (and I was in 4th grade...) Objection! I seem to recall things differently. You wore your uniform to *way* more places than that... Movie theatres, my house... *Evil grin* -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Newman Subject: TPDIS: Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 19:49:31 +0100 I have been considering the future of the Tomorrow People and wondered what everyone else thought... It seems to me that the breakouts are so slow that to actually repopulate the planet would take an awfully long time. So I began to speculate what would happen if their numbers increased dramatically over a short period of time. Let's say that there are hundreds of new TP's breaking out every day, how would the existing TP's cope? Would they still be able to keep their existence a secret from the Earth authorities? As their numbers grow into the millions or tens of millions how would the authorities react. Could there be a call for extermination born out of fear on the part of the Saps? Or maybe rounding them up in holding facilities. Using some form of radiation to prevent them teleporting. These would be dangerous times indeed... NB Possible fan fic idea here! At what point would they try to take over the world? And how could they go about it? There is the possibility of secret infiltration into government office and from this position a subtle influence on policy could be brought to bear. But any TP undertaking such a dangerous course would have to keep their powers very well hidden. Then I wondered whether the Galactic Federation would get involved. Has there ever been any mention of how a world becomes 'open' as opposed to closed? If the TP's could prove that their numbers had increased enough to become a major political force on the Earth would the Federation help to establish a new world order or just leave them to get on with it? I am reminded of their mission to Peeri (Original Series). Although this was not officially sanctioned by the Federation council once Timus had established that the Kultarn had left and that there were thousands of Vesh kept in suspended animation he remained behind to sort out their reintegration into the society. This was a pre industrial world but on Earth the existing powers would no doubt put up considerable resistance to the next stage of evolution usurping them... My last point is to do with the aftermath of the TP's 'Coming out' so to speak. What style of government (if any) would they be likely to adopt. In both series so far there has been one dominant person who acted as the leader and decision maker for the small group. This was adequate under these circumstances but what sort of system could the TP's evolve? Would they follow the model set by the Galactic Federation? I doubt it. This overly bureaucratic organization seems to set up many committees which have no real power to make decisions, and are usually a complete waste of time. An alternative is to form a sort of new religion. There are some very spiritual qualities in their inability to kill and love of peace, could they gain credibility as a new form of religion first and then move into politics from this stand point? I wondered whether anyone has read 'Stranger in a Strange Land' by R A Heinlein. It deals with some very similar concepts. Well that's my political musings. I hope it manages to stimulate some debate. Oh and by the way I like the idea of New Years day as the official TP holiday. Maybe that can be the first law passed once we gain power! Jackie -- "May your senses be enlightened and your dreams be fulfilled." Traditional Manyarnern Greeting ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 17 Oct 1998 15:11:07 EDT In a message dated 98-10-17 14:15:56 EDT, you write: > Objection! I seem to recall things differently. You wore your uniform > to *way* more places than that... Movie theatres, my house... *Evil > grin* I never wore it to the movies ;) I wore it to your house once, I think (it was YOUR idea!), and for Halloween (duh ;) Anyway, to keep this on topic: Tomorrow Just kidding! Seriously, how do I keep this on T? Oh, I know! Two questions: if there was a TP comp game, would you DL it? would seomeone make one? and: who hates Mike? (ME! ME!) -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 17 Oct 1998 14:49:20 -0500 Responding to the message of Arpi from tpdis@lists.xmission.com: > March 21st (Geoffy-chan's birthday) > December 26th (Boxing Day) > April 30th (TP's anniversary) > November 23rd (Something to do with Doctor Who that I'm not clear on) New Year's, either Dec 31 or Jan 1 Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 14:49:25 -0500 Responding to the message of <3628E6BA.4C9DF2F@effdee.demon.co.uk> from tpdis@lists.xmission.com: > > I have been considering the future of the Tomorrow People and wondered > what everyone else thought... > It seems to me that the breakouts are so slow that to actually > repopulate the planet would take an awfully long time. So I began to > speculate what would happen if their numbers increased dramatically over > a short period of time. This was hinted at in the Visitor. And besides, if the Proximity theory is true, at some point they would start to increase exponentially. > Let's say that there are hundreds of new TP's > breaking out every day, how would the existing TP's cope? I can't anticipate it getting this hectic for a long time. I was thinking as their numbers increased so would break outs-- say increasing to biannually, then monthly, then a couple each week over ten years or so. They'd have to institute a less centralized way of training people in-- say mentors (volunteers or people roped into it by John and Liz and/or Adam) who would teach the kids about their new powers, keep them on track in school, etc. (Let's face it, at the rate kids are falling off track now-- decreasing though it finally may be-- some sort of nonparental mentor might be a really good thing.) > Would they > still be able to keep their existence a secret from the Earth > authorities? At some point, no, though my guess it's more likely to be from some careless teleport than anything. Either that or one absentee parent journalist who puts their carreer in front of their child's well being. (Not likely, but possible.) > Could there be a call for extermination born out > of fear on the part of the Saps? You'd probably have a few literal witch hunts. Maybe something like (gasp) Psi Corps. Actually what I'd envisioned was cramming them all into the same school with VERY rigid ethics classes (guesses on who'd teach these:). Might cause more problems than it solved, though. > NB Possible fan fic idea here! This is all from stuff I'm contemplating for my universe in the far future. (I'll have published 20 scientific papers by the time I write that, though!) > At what point would they try to take over the world? When a lot of TP's have grown up to be politicians. > And how could they > go about it? Get elected to government and work hard for reform. > Then I wondered whether the Galactic Federation would get involved. Has > there ever been any mention of how a world becomes 'open' as opposed to > closed? Nope. >If the TP's could prove that their numbers had increased enough > to become a major political force on the Earth would the Federation help > to establish a new world order or just leave them to get on with it? I can't see the federation interfering unless the Saps tried mass extermination or something. > What style of government (if any) would they be likely to > adopt. Either a "council of elders" type deal, or some elected means. Poor John can't be in charge forever! Maybe through the UN, but have elected reps. > I wondered whether anyone has read > 'Stranger in a Strange Land' by R A Heinlein. Made a valient effort once. Couldn't get through it. (It gave me nightmares!) > Maybe that can be the first law passed once we gain > power! Yeah! Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 17 Oct 1998 14:03:39 -0700 Latimer84@aol.com wrote: > I never wore it to the movies ;) I wore it to your house once, I think (it was > YOUR idea!), and for Halloween (duh ;) Anyway, to keep this on topic: Tomorrow > Just kidding! Seriously, how do I keep this on T? Oh, I know! Two questions: > if there was a TP comp game, would you DL it? would seomeone make one? and: > who hates Mike? (ME! ME!) Okay - well, you *did* wear one to the movies. I remember - you and Dawn and I went to see Generations together and we *all* wore one. And as for wearing a uniform to my house, I would bet that was Dawn's idea. If there was a TP computer game, I would definitely download it, especially if it mentioned Tomorrow Penguins. And I bet I hate Mike more than you do, Geoffy-chan!! :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 14:09:33 -0700 Beth Epstein wrote: > > At what point would they try to take over the world? > When a lot of TP's have grown up to be politicians. I think that they would be more likely to try something more immediate - basically to save themselves from the 'psi corps' or whatever arises. > > Then I wondered whether the Galactic Federation would get involved. Has > > there ever been any mention of how a world becomes 'open' as opposed to > > closed? > Nope. There's probably some committee or counsel or something that deals with that type of thing. > > What style of government (if any) would they be likely to > > adopt. > Either a "council of elders" type deal, or some elected means. Poor John can't > be in charge forever! > Maybe through the UN, but have elected reps. I could definitely see John attempting to run (or at least oversee) absolutely everything - it seems like he would be too nervous that things weren't being done well if he didn't. > > Maybe that can be the first law passed once we gain > > power! > Yeah! Definitely! -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 17 Oct 1998 14:10:40 -0700 Beth Epstein wrote: > New Year's, either Dec 31 or Jan 1 Okay - thanks. Both have been noted. :) We need to make sure the TP know exactly what laws to pass once they are put into power! *grin* -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 17:16:59 EDT In a message dated 98-10-17 17:11:56 EDT, you write: > > > At what point would they try to take over the world? > > When a lot of TP's have grown up to be politicians. > > I think that they would be more likely to try something more immediate - > basically to save themselves from the 'psi corps' or whatever arises. I see some evil TP breaking out and taking over 3rd world countries.. > > > Then I wondered whether the Galactic Federation would get involved. Has > > > there ever been any mention of how a world becomes 'open' as opposed to > > > closed? > > Nope. > > There's probably some committee or counsel or something that deals with > that type of thing. Yeah, but it'd take decades for them to actually *do* anything if they actually *did* *plan* to do anything/// > > > What style of government (if any) would they be likely to > > > adopt. > > Either a "council of elders" type deal, or some elected means. Poor John > can't > > be in charge forever! > > Maybe through the UN, but have elected reps. > > I could definitely see John attempting to run (or at least oversee) > absolutely everything - it seems like he would be too nervous that > things weren't being done well if he didn't. I can see Jon takings LOTS of medication. it might be easier for him to have IVs even! ;) > > > Maybe that can be the first law passed once we gain > > > power! > > Yeah! > > Definitely! Yep!! -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 20:06:10 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Jack Newman wrote: > It seems to me that the breakouts are so slow that to actually > repopulate the planet would take an awfully long time. So I began to > speculate what would happen if their numbers increased dramatically over > a short period of time. Let's say that there are hundreds of new TP's > breaking out every day, how would the existing TP's cope? Would they > still be able to keep their existence a secret from the Earth > authorities? With certain exceptions, it takes a rather short time to go from the 'WHATS HAPPING TO ME?" stage of breakout (os) to fully matured and productive TP. Is it as simple as a 1 to 1 'mentoring' type program?... One established TP 'finds' a potential TP and (for lack of a better word) 'OUTS' him/her. Remember Steven had guessed that Liz was a TP before she even experienced any discomfort/pain/halucinations (Like Steven did) Using TNS as a jumping off point, each TP could go back to there original home and help the next people (Lisa to Virginia, if she simple didn't disappear :) ) > > As their numbers grow into the millions or tens of millions how would > the authorities react. Could there be a call for extermination born out > of fear on the part of the Saps? Or maybe rounding them up in holding > facilities. Using some form of radiation to prevent them teleporting. > These would be dangerous times indeed... By the time they grew into the millions or more, THEY would be the authorities. At some point not everybody could be an "Active" TP (saving the universe every week!) So they would go back to School (Steven) or Teaching (Liz) or being a Rock Star (Mike) and yes even perhaps a Prime Minister (Eventually) (My bet's on John!) > Then I wondered whether the Galactic Federation would get involved. Has > there ever been any mention of how a world becomes 'open' as opposed to > closed? If the TP's could prove that their numbers had increased enough > to become a major political force on the Earth would the Federation help > to establish a new world order or just leave them to get on with it? My guess is majority rules.. Once enough TP's break out, they ask the trig for official recognition. Its not like they have NO contact with them... And I'm sure Timus/Tikno would sail them the the application proccess > My last point is to do with the aftermath of the TP's 'Coming out' so > to speak. What style of government (if any) would they be likely to > adopt. I don't think any major change would effect some of the world, democracies (sp?) would continue to exists (Although the need for a War Department is probably gone) ... Dictatorships probably would have ended BEFORE a whole major change... Thats another point though...If you are a TP in Bosnia or Rowanda or some such place... what are your resposibilties to effect change and actual CAUSE peace? > Maybe that can be the first law passed once we gain That's a great reason to watch C-SPAN! Look for any Senator/Congressman to propose a national TP holiday... oh wait Senators CAN'T be TP's... you have to HAVE a brain BEFORE you can break out oh well... Scott G Need any Help? - Oh... All I can Get! - Bart to Jim in Blazing Saddles btw ... I'd like to dress up for Halloween and if anyone has any good movie characters that I could dress as, please email me with them... I'd appreciated all the help I can get! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Adams Subject: TPDIS: TP Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 19:30:44 From Dianne To everyone Greetings: It has been awhile, but I wanted to throw in my opinions on the TP international holiday. First off, I'm more partial a telefantasy holiday than just a straight TP holiday. Since I am a Whovian, I do like the idea of having it on Nov. 23. If that's not possible, then New Year's Eve, which most of the planet has off. I have been reading the TP future history mailings with much interest. Once TP start breaking out in large numbers, their secret would be out. Of course the Saps would be very upset, and would turn to desprite and nasty means to keep TP from evolving into being perhaps with mind controling drugs or worse lobotamies. Naturally, TP would face all sorts of discrimination and worse. As the history evolves, if it is possible, most of the orginial TP would return to their chosen careers and lives, with John being the exception. If he tries to go off, say to become a professor and/or an inventor, his anxious nature would likely draw him back in, perhaps to the chagrin of the current active group. Gee, John on medication? Likely, if he's active and tries to run everything in a much expanded and deeply troubled TP universe. John on Prozac? That doesn't bare thinking of. Must Dash Dianne ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 17:59:37 -0700 Dianne Adams wrote: > Gee, John on medication? Likely, if he's active and tries to run > everything in a much expanded and deeply troubled TP universe. John on > Prozac? That doesn't bare thinking of. What if John (or any of the TP) was put on Prozac? Or for that matter, any other drug that's intended to produce similar results. What affect would it have on their special powers? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 21:27:39 EDT In a message dated 98-10-17 21:26:28 EDT, you write: > What if John (or any of the TP) was put on Prozac? Or for that matter, > any other drug that's intended to produce similar results. What affect > would it have on their special powers? Maybe Jon would stop being such a-- ::stops after realizing that Shaun will read this:: -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 21:36:16 -0600 At 05:59 PM 17/10/98 -0700, Ariana wrote: >Dianne Adams wrote: >> Gee, John on medication? Likely, if he's active and tries >to run >> everything in a much expanded and deeply troubled TP universe. John on >> Prozac? That doesn't bare thinking of. > >What if John (or any of the TP) was put on Prozac? Or for that matter, >any other drug that's intended to produce similar results. What affect >would it have on their special powers? I don't see the TP ever *voluntarily* going on any kind of medication unless they really had to for health reasons. I can't imagine them wanting to take anything that would mess with their heads, affect their special powers, or kill brain cells. Antibiotics, yes. Antacids for John's ulcer :). Acetominophen (paracetemol). The younger ones would probably avoid aspirin because of the link to Reyes syndrome (I can't recall exactly what that is, but it's fatal and my doctor told me never to give my kids aspirin because of it). In _The Visitor_ we were led to believe that they were extremely reluctant to take anything stronger than aspirin, and Stephen comes quite clearly down against alcohol in "Doomsday Men." Now, as to what a hostile non-TP might force feed them, and what it might do, that's another story. Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net 9518-91 st., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6C 3P5 check out the ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 22:15:07 PDT >From: Jack Newman > > Let's say that there are hundreds of new TP's >breaking out every day, how would the existing TP's cope? Would they >still be able to keep their existence a secret from the Earth >authorities? I kind of thought that breakouts would sort of go on an exponential curve. Start out with very few at a slow rate (one a year), then faster and faster until you got to carrying capacity (say 100 breakouts a day. I couldn't imagine more than that being possible, the whole world would break out by then.) That way you get a few people to start who have time to figure everything out, then when larger and larger numbers start arriving you have a key group of people to help the rest along. (That being the role of the TPs in the two TV series. They were the first squad, prepping for the mass explosion of TPs) > >As their numbers grow into the millions or tens of millions how would >the authorities react. Could there be a call for extermination born out >of fear on the part of the Saps? Or maybe rounding them up in holding >facilities. List telepathy strikes again. One of the themes for my serial is that the future isn't perfect. As the TPs numbers grow they can't hide anymore and witch hunts do ensue. You'd have religious extremists (in some countries, probably government supported), political extremists, military extremists, etc. all gunning for the TPs. Their abilities make them a major threat to the world order. My story plans call for Adam making plans to hide the TPs somewhere else. Somewhere the 'saps can't really get to too easily. :-) > >At what point would they try to take over the world? And how could they >go about it? I don't see the TPs actively trying to take over the world. I think it's a position they'll just have to assume - in order to save the world from itself. I see the TPs as being more reactionary than calculated. (generally speaking.) If they see a danger to the planet, they might take over. Otherwise, I think they'll leave the saps alone. > >My last point is to do with the aftermath of the TP's 'Coming out' so >to speak. What style of government (if any) would they be likely to >adopt. Some sort of oligarchy, I'd expect. If you have telepathy communication between a number of people simultaneously is easy and presumably there is no slippage of meaning as is found in spoken language. (big assumption there) Why leave the rule up to one person when you can have a group of people thinking in sync with each other? >An alternative is to form a sort of new religion. There are some very >spiritual qualities in their inability to kill and love of peace, could >they gain credibility as a new form of religion first and then move into >politics from this stand point? I could see it more as a philosophy or way of life rather than religion. (Religion implies worship.) The TP remind me very much of Taoism, at times. >I wondered whether anyone has read >'Stranger in a Strange Land' by R A Heinlein. It deals with some very >similar concepts. Like six times. Not my favorite by Heinlein, but a good read. It influenced a *lot* of my beliefs. (which is scary since the Scientologists base their cult on the works of L.Ron Hubbard, another sci-fi writer.) The idea of people developing godlike powers is pretty cool. Appeals to most people. If it didn't, we wouldn't have as rich a mythology as is found worldwide. Humans like heroes that are bigger than life. They're inspiring. Heck, they're just plain fun. If anyone were likely to grok, it'd be the Tomorrow People. :-) Greyfalcon aka Mike Matott Nothing is stranger than reality ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 17 Oct 1998 22:26:48 PDT Big surprise, I agree with most of what Tigger says. > >Responding to the message of <3628E6BA.4C9DF2F@effdee.demon.co.uk> >from tpdis@lists.xmission.com: > >> Would they >> still be able to keep their existence a secret from the Earth >> authorities? >At some point, no, though my guess it's more likely to be from some careless >teleport than anything. Technically, the TPs existence wasn't secret in either series. The military/government/BigBrother found out about them first and kept it hush hush with the public. So I would say the question is more, when will the public have enough info that the government no longer has plausible deniability? In my serial, I'm planning a story where the TPs existence is revealed to the world because two of them come across a building fire with chldren trapped inside and just based on the nature of TPs, of course they're going to help the kids. So, teleporting in front of over 50 people and reappearing with some of the trapped kids would reveal their existence. (I doubt anyone really cares about my plot points, but I thought I'd share anyway.) >> Could there be a call for extermination born out >> of fear on the part of the Saps? >You'd probably have a few literal witch hunts. Maybe something like (gasp) Psi >Corps. Why is it so believable that a non-tepes response to telepathy would be to try and regulate or control it? I think the PsiCorps type of setup is more believable than a friendly welcoming society. (Would you be afraid of a telepath if you weren't one? Knowing that they could know your thoughts, but you'd never know theirs.) > >> NB Possible fan fic idea here! >This is all from stuff I'm contemplating for my universe in the far future. >(I'll have published 20 scientific papers by the time I write that, though!) Ditto. (at least I hope I'll publish some scientific papers) > >> At what point would they try to take over the world? >When a lot of TP's have grown up to be politicians. Would they be able to slip that low morally? :=) >> I wondered whether anyone has read >> 'Stranger in a Strange Land' by R A Heinlein. >Made a valient effort once. Couldn't get through it. (It gave me nightmares!) Oh, you should read through it. It has a happy ending. (Very obvious Christ mythos throughout the book, so you can probably guess what happens.) mike ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 18 Oct 1998 02:14:16 CDT >An alternative is to form a sort of new religion. No, now what *this* is here - is the answer to our little international holiday problem. (I considered bringing this up earlier, but I have a nagging fear of being hit by freak lightning bolts... just kidding) The list needs to start its own religion based on the TP... then we declare our TP holiday as a *religious* holiday. NP getting out of school/work then. (Unfortunatly, I and, I'm certain, others would be unable to convert due to the depth of our current convictions... but it has the makings of a great plan.) Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Future History Date: 18 Oct 1998 11:04:36 EDT In a message dated 98-10-17 23:36:36 EDT, you write: > I don't see the TP ever *voluntarily* going on any kind of medication unless > they really had to for health reasons. Who said anything about voluntarily? >;) >I can't imagine them wanting to take > anything that would mess with their heads, affect their special powers, or > kill > brain cells. Antibiotics, yes. Antacids for John's ulcer :). Acetominophen > (paracetemol). The younger ones would probably avoid aspirin because of the > link to Reyes syndrome (I can't recall exactly what that is, but it's fatal > and > my doctor told me never to give my kids aspirin because of it). In _The > Visitor_ we were led to believe that they were extremely reluctant to take > anything stronger than aspirin, and Stephen comes quite clearly down against > alcohol in "Doomsday Men." Well, you'd think the TP would get some wicked headaches. I can see them scarfing "Excedrin Migraine" left and right! -Geoff, who just caught a psychic starfish in Pokemon! YAY! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 18 Oct 1998 09:47:30 -0700 Kristy Fahrenwald wrote: > No, now what *this* is here - is the answer to our little international > holiday problem. (I considered bringing this up earlier, but I have a > nagging fear of being hit by freak lightning bolts... just kidding) The > list needs to start its own religion based on the TP... then we declare > our TP holiday as a *religious* holiday. NP getting out of school/work > then. What a wonderful idea! > (Unfortunatly, I and, I'm certain, others would be unable to convert due > to the depth of our current convictions... but it has the makings of a > great plan.) I don't think that's really that much of a problem :) IMHO, the religions that are the most interesting are the ones that have lots of room for interpretation and incorporation of things that one finds outside it. We would just have to fashion our TP religion to include other persuasions... -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: TPDIS: TP holiday poll Date: 18 Oct 1998 09:51:21 -0700 Okay - the TP holiday poll is up and (as far as I can tell) functional! Make sure to vote (please?). The URL is http://www.geocities.com/area51/dreamworld/1837/tpholiday.htm This is a link for Geoffy-chan, or anyone else on AOL or other mailers that only respond to HTML tags for links :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 18 Oct 1998 16:36:51 -0500 On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:49:31 +0100 Jack Newman writes: >I have been considering the future of the Tomorrow People >and wondered what everyone else thought...It seems to me >that the breakouts are so slow that to actually >repopulate the planet would take an awfully long time. Yes, but if they were fast multipliers then it they'd already in control. If they immediately began to take over, the Saps would begin to kill them in mass numbers, and they'd never get anywhere. They have to do it gradually as to keep themselves safe. A lot of people *COULD* be Tomorrow People but don't ever reach the final stages for different reasons. The ones that do are STRONG TP. Tricia makes a good example. She didn't make it because she wasn't following it through. It's been suggested from what I've seen of the OS (which ends at Into The Unknown) that there were TP before John. Liz says she talked to them in her head a child, but who was she talking to? She's older than John, so it wasn't John. Perhaps TP that had broken out before John (wow, we're getting to great pre-OS potential here) were talking to her and when they left there was a silence and when Joh broke out things started up again. >Let's say that there are hundreds of new TP's breaking >out every day, how would the existing TP's cope? Would >they still be able to keep their existence a secret from >the Earth authorities? Well, if there are hundreds then they're going to start identifying and helping each other. That means that few would be discovered. Hundreds also mean a lot more die before break out, because with all that telepathic thought and the confusion, many would be lost to hyperspace. The deaths wouldn't be that hard to cover up. Nobody is going to connect the deaths in anyway. People die mysteriously everyday. >As their numbers grow into the millions or tens of >millions how would the authorities react. Could there be >a call for extermination born out of fear on the part of >the Saps? Or maybe rounding them up in holding >facilities. Using some form of radiation to prevent them >teleporting. >These would be dangerous times indeed... I believe the authorities if they were scared would get extremely proactive and start giving out hormones to prevent women from bearing TP children. They'd take TP children away at birth and do whatever to them...it gets grotesque when you begin to think about. As really offending and horrid as this is going to sound, it could get to Holocaust proportions. If they saw them as weapons, they'd frustrate the heck out of themselves trying to get these stubborn TP's to kill someone. No TP is going to fire a gun at somebody. They just *CAN'T*. >NB Possible fan fic idea here! FF possibilities are running rampant here. >At what point would they try to take over the world? And >how could they go about it? There is the possibility of >secret infiltration into government office and from this >position a subtle influence on policy could be brought to >bear. But any TP undertaking such a dangerous course >would have to keep their powers very well hidden. Considering they get that far, they aren't going to take over. They're not going to converge on the government and start gretting elected. If a TP were president how could he/she possibly order soldiers to go attack an enemy knowing that somebody is going to die?? >Then I wondered whether the Galactic Federation would get >involved. Has there ever been any mention of how a world >becomes 'open' as opposed to closed? My theory is that they've got scouts that look over worlds and when one starts to look as though it's getting to be Open, then they investigate further, and when they've determined that it is, they send an Ambassador or other person down and begin to negotiate. Of course this would take FOREVER. >An alternative is to form a sort of new religion. There >are some very spiritual qualities in their inability to >kill and love of peace, could they gain credibility as a >new form of religion first and then move into politics >from this stand point? I don't think they'd get religious about it, but I do believe they would begin a movement of peace. I believe they'd start organisations and clubs and councils, not churches. They'd do something like Green Peace or Red Cross. They'd bring a very subtle pacifism into the world, not a direct religious take over. Two Dollars and Two cents is your change, come again! Megan **** I'm the kinda guy who laughs at a funeral Can't understand what I mean You soon will -Barenaked Ladies "One Week" ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 18 Oct 1998 17:33:53 -0600 At 04:36 PM 18/10/98 -0500, Megan wrote: >I don't think they'd get religious about it, but I do believe they would >begin a movement of peace. I believe they'd start organisations and clubs >and councils, not churches. They'd do something like Green Peace or Red >Cross. They'd bring a very subtle pacifism into the world, not a direct >religious take over. I agree. I think they'd get involved in or start the kind of aid organizations that train people to help themselves - Medecins Sans Frontieres, Habitat for Humanity, Red Cross, Street Kids International, etc. Non-governmental, non-denominational, non-nationalistic organizations. Especially orgs that aid children. Or the "commit random acts of kindness and senseless beauty" school - I know it sounds a bit trite, but the principle of doing good on a small scale, if you know what I mean. I've seen a lot of the "had a bad day at the office so I take it out on the spouse who yells at the kids who kick the dog who bites the cat" chain of cause and effect. Amazing how doing one little nice thing for someone - even someone you don't know - can break that chain. Now, this theory is based on what I know of the current TP - I'm sure that some of the TP to come will have strong religious convictions and will work within the structure of their own religion to promote peace and help people. The one thing I think is less likely is a strongly nationalistic bent, but there may be a few of those, too. By nationalistic I don't mean not proud of their country and their heritage. I mean that they wouldn't be forcing their country's or religion's way down the throats of others. Live and let live, eh? Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net 9518-91 st., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6C 3P5 check out the ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 18 Oct 1998 20:24:13 EDT In a message dated 98-10-18 17:45:51 EDT, tplight telepathed the following random thoughts to fellow telepaths: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 98-10-18 17:45:51 EDT From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:49:31 +0100 Jack Newman writes: >>I have been considering the future of the Tomorrow People and wondered >>what everyone else thought...It seems to me that the breakouts are so >>slow that to actually repopulate the planet would take an awfully long time. >Yes, but if they were fast multipliers then it they'd already in control. >If they immediately began to take over, the Saps would begin to kill them >in mass numbers, and they'd never get anywhere. They have to do it >gradually as to keep themselves safe. A lot of people *COULD* be Tomorrow >People but don't ever reach the final stages for different reasons. The >ones that do are STRONG TP. Tricia makes a good example. She didn't make > it because she wasn't following it through. This is true. I believe that Peter the Time Guardian hinted that the ''Great Mass Break-Out'' would occur sometime after the year 2000,but that it would begin gradually before that. Assuming that Col. Masters, and other sociopaths like him, wouldn't be in power at the time,which I think we would all agree that they are in power at this time. Therefore, the secret destruction of TP would've already begun,and the surviving TP would be at a empass as what to do, try to contact the PM again and plead for mercy, or just try to find as many new bo's as possible before the government does, or begin a ''peaceful'' attempt at sabotage or terroist acts by disabling any government bases set up soley for detection/destruction of ''enemy agents'' (TP). If any of you were lucky enough to have received any of the fanfict published by TPI,and I'm sure that there is a small number besides myself,maybe 2 or 3 of you? :) Then you'd seen one interpetation of what could've occured during this timeframe. With the inclusion of some of the Dr. Who universe into the TP universe, you have UNIT on one hand who are TP friendly due to the Doctor,and then you have several other agencies that are bent on the destruction off ALL telepathic lifeforms. Maybe I oughta get this stuff typed and posted here, so that you can all enjoy it. :) >It's been suggested from what I've seen of the OS (which ends at Into >The Unknown) that there were TP before John. Liz says she talked to them >in her head a child, but who was she talking to? She's older than John, >so it wasn't John. Perhaps TP that had broken out before John (wow, we're >getting to great pre-OS potential here) were talking to her and when they >left there was a silence and when John broke out things started up again. Well, again in some fanfict that I read that wasn't under the Nazi-like control of TPI, a story was done about John's early days, pre-TP, and how he lost a girl TP to hyperspace that he loved very dearly. As soon as I can find the address of the writers, I'll post it here , with their permission,so that you can buy the stories. > >Let's say that there are hundreds of new TP's breaking out every day, >> how would the existing TP's cope? Would they still be able to keep their >> existence a secret from the Earth authorities? > Well, if there are hundreds then they're going to start identifying and >helping each other. That means that few would be discovered. Hundreds >also mean a lot more die before break out, because with all that >telepathic thought and the confusion, many would be lost to hyperspace. >The deaths wouldn't be that hard to cover up. Nobody is going to connect >the deaths in anyway. People die mysteriously everyday. True, their would be some confusion and chaos,but I think that TIM would be upgraded and well prepared for the eventuallity of the situation,as with the connections he has, he might even be entrusted with the information of where/when the bo's would occur so that he's ready for the greater masses of TP to contact. Remember, one of TIM's primary instructions is to assist ALL TP and to protect their lives even at the sacrifice of his own. while I am not saying that TIM is omnipotent as some may feel,but he does have a greater advantage of more knowledge than any human, sap or TP could safely handle mentally or emotionaly. I must argue the point of the lack of caring about mass deaths. True, people die and disapear on a daily, even hourly basis, but I must contend that should some of the TP die and their bodies are found, then the great number of kids that die from brain hemmorages would alert the scientific comunity that somethings afoot. Perhaps with the intervention of evil alien forces, the governments would know what's happening,and might try to use advanced knowlege of what is going to happen to either kidnap these kids,or kill them.Panic would ensue of course. >>As their numbers grow into the millions or tens of millions how would >>the authorities react. Could there be a call for extermination born out >>of fear on the part of the Saps? Or maybe rounding them up in holding >>facilities. Using some form of radiation to prevent them teleporting. >>These would be dangerous times indeed... > I believe the authorities if they were scared would get extremely >proactive and start giving out hormones to prevent women from bearing TP >children. They'd take TP children away at birth and do whatever to >them...it gets grotesque when you begin to think about. As really >offending and horrid as this is going to sound, it could get to Holocaust >proportions. That's exactly what would happen, either in fantasy or reality. The world governments would be terrofied that they could lose their hold on their citizens,and would stop at nothing to keep their power,even if it mean to kill a child. Remember what King Herod did in the Bible in a futile attempt to prevent the ''king of the Jews'' from taking power. Look at what Bill Clinton is doing to keep his power............ > If they saw them as weapons, they'd frustrate the heck out of >themselves trying to get these stubborn TP's to kill someone. No TP is >going to fire a gun at somebody. They just *CAN'T*. That would depend. If they weren't a full or true TP, then the ''Prime Barrier'' might not have developed, or could be supressed by drugs. Besides, if they failed in a misson, they'd be killed, no questions asked. I have a character that is a ''psi-vampire'' who can and does kill. I worked around the prime barrier. It takes some thought,but makes for an intresting characters. :) >>NB Possible fan fic idea here! > FF possibilities are running rampant here. Its already been done.:) >>At what point would they try to take over the world? And how could they >>go about it? There is the possibility of secret infiltration into >>government office and from this position a subtle influence on policy >>could be brought to bear. But any TP undertaking such a dangerous course >>would have to keep their powers very well hidden. > Considering they get that far, they aren't going to take over. They're >not going to converge on the government and start getting elected. If a >TP were president how could he/she possibly order soldiers to go attack >an enemy knowing that somebody is going to die?? Well, again you have to assume that the ''good'' TP get there first. Should a puppet TP get into office, he/she could use telepathy to psionicly ''push'' people into their control,and if they could create a psi-booster, then a small group of renengade TP could control a country, or even the world. As for the war aspect, again a mental''suggestion'' that the enemy withdraw his troops is a possiblity in order to prevent any deaths at all, or to make sure that the TP in charge doesnt feel any gulit over it,and therfore no prime barrier break down, and the TP doesn't die. Anybody feel a story coming on yet?? :) >>Then I wondered whether the Galactic Federation would get involved. Has >> there ever been any mention of how a world becomes 'open' as opposed to >> closed? >My theory is that they've got scouts that look over worlds and when one >starts to look as though it's getting to be Open, then they investigate >further, and when they've determined that it is, they send an Ambassador >or other person down and begin to negotiate. Of course this would take >FOREVER. This sounds logical,and of course with all the red-tape, your assesment of the lengthy process of the ''opening'' of a world is most likely the closest to the truth.But dont forget that even if a planet is considered ''closed'' by the Federation, that doesnt prevent non-member worlds to come here anyway,so the federation would possibly consider having some type of protection set up for that world. Here it is the TP,but elsewhere it might be some type of interplanetary space Marines or something of that nature. Also, a plantetary Cloaking Device might also be used in some cases. > >An alternative is to form a sort of new religion. There are some very >>spiritual qualities in their inability to kill and love of peace, could >> they gain credibility as a new form of religion first and then move into >> politics from this stand point? >> I don't think they'd get religious about it, but I do believe they would >>begin a movement of peace. I believe they'd start organisations and clubs >>and councils, not churches. They'd do something like Green Peace or Red >>Cross. They'd bring a very subtle pacifism into the world, not a direct >>religious take over. I agree. The evil Tp might attempt something of that nature (similar to the X-FILES episode, or like Jedikiah did in one of the Novels, I think) But i doubt that being as they are that the TP would try to control people in that manner. If they had to reveal themselves, they'd just lay their cards on the table, with no ''parlor tricks' so that they dont scare the general public any more than they have to. >> Two Dollars and Two cents is your change, come again! >>Megan Hmm...service with a smile! :) I like that in a business.:) Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 19 Oct 1998 11:02:47 +1000 > From: Michael Matott > > Oblig TP/suggestion - A holiday that doesn't have (much) religious > significance and yet most everyone has it off is New Year's eve or New > Year's day. A TP New Year's party might be an interesting thing - after > all, if they are the next stage in human evolution, it's kind of > ushering in the future. And just think, in two years, it's the next > millenium. Oodles, of neat possibilities. They also leave Earth on this date in 1980 in my fanfic 'Exodus' and it's the concept you mention that made me make it that date - it's a natural transition and I think you're right that it might be a day with some special significance for them. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 19 Oct 1998 11:09:15 +1000 > From: Michael Matott > > >From owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Fri Oct 16 00:17:14 1998 > >X-ZSender: jeremy.rogers@zetnet.co.uk > > > "Michael Matott" wrote: > > > >> Hmm. I'm a Whovian > > > >Ugh - how I hate that word :) > > I like it much better than Trekker or Trekkie (neither of which I will > admit being.) You know we seem to be one of the few SF fandoms without a cool(?) nickname - anyoen got any ideas. Personally I like 'Sups' Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 19 Oct 1998 11:24:56 +1000 > From: Jack Newman > > I have been considering the future of the Tomorrow People and wondered > what everyone else thought... Well, I can't say too much about what I think because this is where 'A MOre Perfect Union' is going eventually (-8 > It seems to me that the breakouts are so slow that to actually > repopulate the planet would take an awfully long time. So I began to > speculate what would happen if their numbers increased dramatically over > a short period of time. Let's say that there are hundreds of new TP's > breaking out every day, how would the existing TP's cope? Would they > still be able to keep their existence a secret from the Earth > authorities? Probably not - we know that sometime in the 21st Century, something called the Great Emergence occurs (mentioned in 'The Medusa Strain') and it appears from the context (at least to me) that this is not the time the Tomorrow People actually take over the world, but rather a preliminary stage where their existence becomes generally known. Rapid exponential growth seems very likely - by the 25th Century, Homo sapiens is a virtually extinct race. Only 500 years before the Tomorrow People are the dominant strain. > As their numbers grow into the millions or tens of millions how would > the authorities react. Could there be a call for extermination born out > of fear on the part of the Saps? Or maybe rounding them up in holding > facilities. Using some form of radiation to prevent them teleporting. > These would be dangerous times indeed... It seems to me likely that there would be a backlash from the authorities - people like Rabowski in 'The Medusa Strain' show the attitude that some saps have. > NB Possible fan fic idea here! > > At what point would they try to take over the world? And how could they > go about it? There is the possibility of secret infiltration into > government office and from this position a subtle influence on policy > could be brought to bear. But any TP undertaking such a dangerous course > would have to keep their powers very well hidden. Actually I wonder if the Tomorrow People would be particularly benevolent rulers. We know that Rabowski feels himself persecuted because of his species and we know that the Tomorrow People of the 70s don't always show a particularly benevolent attitude towards Saps. > Then I wondered whether the Galactic Federation would get involved. Has > there ever been any mention of how a world becomes 'open' as opposed to > closed? If the TP's could prove that their numbers had increased enough > to become a major political force on the Earth would the Federation help > to establish a new world order or just leave them to get on with it? The Federation consists of 64,000,000 worlds and there are 1,000,000 worlds approaching eligibility (from 'The Vanishing Earth'). The Federation seems very understaffed - would they really get involved? > I am reminded of their mission to Peeri (Original Series). Although this > was not officially sanctioned by the Federation council once Timus had > established that the Kultarn had left and that there were thousands of > Vesh kept in suspended animation he remained behind to sort out their > reintegration into the society. This was a pre industrial world but on > Earth the existing powers would no doubt put up considerable resistance > to the next stage of evolution usurping them... But would they? Remember these people who are in power may very well be seeing their children become Tomorrow People. There would be a backlash but the situation is different from most takeovers. Here we see one generation taking over from another. The backlash may be very short lived. > My last point is to do with the aftermath of the TP's 'Coming out' so > to speak. What style of government (if any) would they be likely to > adopt. In both series so far there has been one dominant person who > acted as the leader and decision maker for the small group. This was > adequate under these circumstances but what sort of system could the > TP's evolve? Would they follow the model set by the Galactic Federation? > I doubt it. This overly bureaucratic organization seems to set up many > committees which have no real power to make decisions, and are usually a > complete waste of time. Hail John, Emperor and Overlord! Personally, I think they'd probably adopt Westminster style democracy (the system already in place in the UK, Australia, New Zealand - even the US in a modified form). This is the system most of them have grown up with and it seems to work. They'd probably seek to make it more efficient but as it's basis I think it would ocntinue to exist. > An alternative is to form a sort of new religion. There are some very > spiritual qualities in their inability to kill and love of peace, could > they gain credibility as a new form of religion first and then move into > politics from this stand point? I wondered whether anyone has read > 'Stranger in a Strange Land' by R A Heinlein. It deals with some very > similar concepts. A philosophy, yes - a religion, no. Perhaps something akin to Buddhism - not strictly a religion but a way of life. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Future History Date: 19 Oct 1998 01:13:05 CDT >Hail John, Emperor and Overlord! That's the way. >Personally, I think they'd probably adopt Westminster style democracy (the >system already in place in the UK, Australia, New Zealand - even the US in >a modified form). This is the system most of them have grown up with and it >seems to work. They'd probably seek to make it more efficient but as it's >basis I think it would ocntinue to exist. I agree. It even has it's simalarites to the Federations government... red tape and all... so we know it would work for telepaths. They just have to do some refining trim the red tape. Kristy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 19 Oct 1998 06:27:36 +0100 "Shaun Hately" wrote: > You know we seem to be one of the few SF fandoms without a cool(?) nickname And IMO, let's keep it that way. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 19 Oct 1998 13:37:26 EDT In a message dated 98-10-17 23:20:22 EDT, ruby@welkin.apana.org.au flatulated the following insipid babblings: << Subj: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans Date: 98-10-17 23:20:22 EDT From: ruby@welkin.apana.org.au (Ruby Red) To: Jeffl1965@aol.com On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 10:37:25PM -0400, Jeffl1965@aol.com wrote: > >>Good Luck, May you Convert many Trekkies! > >>Megan > > Hey, I'm TREKKER,(nobody but the uniformed, or a mundane uses that > archaic term anymore.) and I LOVED the TP from when I first saw it in 81 or so > on Nickelodeon,back when Nick signed off at about 8pm here. I also loved >> Oh, people *do* use the term "trekkie" who *are* informed, and not >> mundanes... they use it to annoy "trekkers". I know I do. (-8 Lemme guess, you're one of those inane,asinine wikkens? :) May a aborigine defecate in your living room.:) -- Ruby Red http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-za04.mx.aol.com (rly-za04.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.100]) by air-za05.mail.aol.com (v50.21) with SMTP; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:20:21 -0400 Received: from core.apana.org.au (core.apana.org.au [203.12.236.10]) by rly-za04.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id XAA01390 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21371 invoked by uid 10); 18 Oct 1998 03:01:06 -0000 MBOX-Line: From ruby Sun Oct 18 07:51:30 1998 remote from welkin Received: by welkin.apana.org.au (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0zUeG2-0009WIC; Sun, 18 Oct 98 07:51 EST Message-ID: <19981018075130.53321@welkin.apana.org.au> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:51:30 +1000 From: Ruby Red To: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: best TP ep to show non-fans References: <5cefe3d2.361d76e5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <5cefe3d2.361d76e5@aol.com>; from Jeffl1965@aol.com on Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 10:37:25PM -0400 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 19 Oct 1998 15:54:17 EDT Here's a new way to look at our future history thread: what would YOU do? If you broke out or didn't. -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 19 Oct 1998 17:34:01 -0500 On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:14:57 -0700 Ariana Brill writes: >Okay - I thought it would be fun to put a poll up on a web site to get >an idea of which date is most popular for our 'official TP holiday.' >So >far we've got the suggestions of: > >March 21st (Geoffy-chan's birthday) >December 26th (Boxing Day) >April 30th (TP's anniversary) >November 23rd (Something to do with Doctor Who that I'm >not clear on) How about we pick a date clearly out of the blue for no good reason? How about...June 25th. AFAIK...there is nothing on June 25th. If there is nothing on June 25th then we can all participate. Students will probably be out of school (hey, I'm out of school in MAY), and June has nothing major in it. It's a good summery time to mosey on down to the Lab, wake TIM up, and fine some nice quiet debauchery in which to have fun with. We cannot do April. Can't say why (or they'd HAVE to kill me), but we cannot do April. March and Boxing Day are okay. I can even try for November. But PLEASE do not pick April. I'm going for June Megan ***** Did it happen one day? The day that you faced Just wasn't happening It just didn't bring anything Anything more than despair -Duncan Sheik "Serena" ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 19 Oct 1998 17:58:15 -0500 On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:54:17 EDT Latimer84@aol.com writes: >Here's a new way to look at our future history thread: what would YOU >do? If >you broke out or didn't. > -Geoff If I broke out, I'd probably try and join an organisation and get involved and help with the pacifism movement. If I did not, then I would be involved with the Sapien Rights Movement. I'd make sure that at least if we were gonna get blowed up or torn apart by aliens, that we would *KNOW* about it. If I did then I would make sure that Jedikiah was never treated so badly by telepaths that he resented them for life. Therefore saving the TP from Medusa Strain. One has to feel a bit badly for Jedikiah because he must have suffered horridly being non telepathic on a world of TP. Imagine everyone around you teleporting while you've got to walk. Imagine people making crude telepathic remarks behind your back while you couldn't hear it. Imagine looking bad when every one else studies you for a science project because you're a homo sapien, not a homo superior. Imagine having to deal with TP using their TK to throw spitballs at you, or steal your pencils and paper or do something else cruel. Or (a certain person WILL understand this) using TK to unlock your locker and putting BEEF in it. You'd never be safe or sane. You'd be in constant misery because some quirk of fate destined you to be a dumb brute in the eyes of the world. However, it would be peaceful and altogether utopian for me if I did break out. Then I would have millions of my own kind around and for once I'd be NORMAL. It wouldn't be as special though, because if teleporting were an everyday event, then it wouldn't be exciting or special. It would be like brushing your teeth or something! Brush, floss, rinse, teleport, repeat, brush... Megan **** You've gone to wizards, princes, and magicmen You've gone to witches The good, the bad, the indifferent -Tracy Chapman "Remember the Tinman" ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 19 Oct 1998 20:00:03 EDT This is all true and I agree with you that this would happen with some, but a) there will be nice TPs too! and b) Jed could beat them up since he can kill and all that... -Geoff, who wouldn't mess w/ the only person on that planet that could kill! n a message dated 98-10-19 19:03:26 EDT, you write: > One has to feel a bit badly for Jedikiah because he must have suffered > horridly being non telepathic on a world of TP. Imagine everyone around > you teleporting while you've got to walk. Imagine people making crude > telepathic remarks behind your back while you couldn't hear it. Imagine > looking bad when every one else studies you for a science project because > you're a homo sapien, not a homo superior. Imagine having to deal with TP > using their TK to throw spitballs at you, or steal your pencils and paper > or do something else cruel. Or (a certain person WILL understand this) > using TK to unlock your locker and putting BEEF in it. You'd never be > safe or sane. You'd be in constant misery because some quirk of fate > destined you to be a dumb brute in the eyes of the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 19 Oct 1998 19:11:43 -0600 At 05:34 PM 19/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >How about we pick a date clearly out of the blue for no good reason? How >about...June 25th. AFAIK...there is nothing on June 25th. If there is >nothing on June 25th then we can all participate. Students will probably >be out of school (hey, I'm out of school in MAY), and June has nothing >major in it. It's a good summery time to mosey on down to the Lab, wake >TIM up, and fine some nice quiet debauchery in which to have fun with. University students are out in May, but Canadian primary and secondary school students (that's grades kindergarten to 12 (13 in Ontario), not that there are any on the list) don't get out until June 30th. June 25th is either St. John Baptiste day or the day after it, the big cultural bash in Quebec (not that there are any Quebecois on the list either). I vote for January 1st, when it's too bloody cold to do anything outdoors in this latitude and a visit to the nice warm lab would be just the ticket. Ta Ta Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net 9518-91 st., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6C 3P5 check out the ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:44:18 -0500 Silly Shaun wrote: > You know we seem to be one of the few SF fandoms without a cool(?) nickname > - anyoen got any ideas. Personally I like 'Sups' We're TP's silly. Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:46:07 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 Latimer84@aol.com wrote: > This is all true and I agree with you that this would happen with some, but > a) there will be nice TPs too! > and > b) Jed could beat them up since he can kill and all that... > -Geoff, who wouldn't mess w/ the only person on that planet that could > kill! > > > n a message dated 98-10-19 19:03:26 EDT, you write: > > > One has to feel a bit badly for Jedikiah because he must have suffered > > horridly being non telepathic on a world of TP. Imagine everyone around > > you teleporting while you've got to walk. Imagine people making crude > > telepathic remarks behind your back while you couldn't hear it. Imagine > > looking bad when every one else studies you for a science project because > > you're a homo sapien, not a homo superior. Imagine having to deal with TP > > using their TK to throw spitballs at you, or steal your pencils and paper > > or do something else cruel. Or (a certain person WILL understand this) > > using TK to unlock your locker and putting BEEF in it. You'd never be > > safe or sane. You'd be in constant misery because some quirk of fate > > destined you to be a dumb brute in the eyes of the world. > You must be confusing Jedikiah with Robowski. There wasn't any indication that Jedikiah was a time traveler before being marooned in space. Jedikiah was a shape changing robot, but probably just a bad alien visitor. Besides, Jedikiah exhibited slight telepathic abilities at will. (He coerced Steven into jaunting himself, Jedikiah and Tyso into the lab, and was able to read Steven's thoughts when he called for Elizabeth and John. And on Robowski's ship, was it just the fact that Peter's silencer band lit up when Peter was calling the Tomorrow People for help that tipped Jedikiah off, or might he have heard some echo or whisper of the telepathic call?) Jedikiah wasn't some sort of victim. He was just evil :) MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM J M A R C E L L J. E L S E G O O D J J J J Quote 1: "There were mystics from sequestered communities outside J J Taos who used psilocybin as a sacrament, and nuns from a convent J J near Albuquerque who used ethanol for the same purpose." J J Quote 2: "Smithers, there's a rocket in my pocket." ... "You don't J J have to tell me, Sir." J J J EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McElrath, Jamon" Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 20 Oct 1998 13:35:24 -0500 So how exactly did Jedikiah make that big transformation from Slaves to Medusa? He started out as just a shape-shifting Robot in Slaves controlled by the Cyclops and was accidently damaged. He really had little independent thought-just a mechanical device to be used by another. Then, in Medusa he becomes this evil villain bent on looting the earth and exacting revenge on the TP. Do you think he had this capacity for independant thought all along? And when the Galactic Fed made him permanently human at the end of Revenge, does that mean he only had a permanently human shape but was still a robot internally. If so, would he live indefinately? This is all true and I agree with you that this would happen with some, but a) there will be nice TPs too! and b) Jed could beat them up since he can kill and all that... -Geoff, who wouldn't mess w/ the only person on that planet that could kill! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: TPDIS: Fan Nicknames Date: 20 Oct 1998 17:33:06 -0500 >You know we seem to be one of the few SF fandoms without >a cool(?) nickname- anyone got any ideas. Personally I >like 'Sups' Never! I say we call our selves TeePees or Peoples. The SeaQuest fans have Questies, and the Trek fans have Trekkies and Trekker. However, Jez, if we don't want a nick name, we're in good company. Star Wars fans don't have one either. Star Wars (aka, best SF movie EVER made). Nicknames--- ummm--- another idea Megan **** Actin' on your best behaviour Turn your back on mother nature Everybody wants to rule the world -Tears for Fears "Everybody wants to rule the world" ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 20 Oct 1998 17:59:06 -0500 I guess I was wrong. I just remember Carol saying (in a very whiny voice) "You were a Sap on a world of Tomorrow People. I feel sorry for you, you must have suffered!" ::Me is so ashamed, going to watch Medusa Strain and whimper::. If you were, wouldn't the telepathic kids treat you fairly badly. Maybe there would be a few good ones, but on the whole you'd get abused totally. Kids are mean, spiteful little animals at times. I mean, and this kids despite the fact that he/she could kill, probably wouldn't get the chance. The TP officials would be all over them. I'll beta (wait, I already do that!) I mean, bet that Sap kids are punished more and put under heavier laws than TP kids. Also, there would be thing about segregation. The Saps might not be allowed to eat, drink, or use the restroom in the same places TP are. Such as it was in the 1960's in America. There would be TP and Sap entrances into buildings. The TP would not show a lot of mercy for these Saps. No matter how nice or peaceful, the fact would remain that they are SAPS. In fact, they'd come up with worse names for them. So, what few Saps, and imagine their despair, they're a dying race, an evolutionary step behind, and despised throughout the world. They must know that they have no chance of seeing any hope. The TP went through the same thing they did, only the TP knew that one day they would rule. The TP had hope, the Saps would not. The Saps would be so depressed. If you think about them living in such despair, you can *almost* sympathise with some people who didn't the like the TP. ::me hugs the Saps, poor brothers and sisters!:: Now this could get to some interesting fan fic, and this could also lead to some interesting thoughts. If good TP ruled the world, they might treat the Saps nicely. But the Saps wouldn't be able to get the jobs that the TP would. A lot of jobs would require TK, TP, and TL (teleporting). So the Saps would be poor. They would be condemned to the same thing that Jedikiah was in ROJ. It doesn't look good for the Saps. To carry that even further, what would it be like to be the LAST Sap on Earth. What would it be like to be alone, forever? What would it be like to be the last of an entire species, and all that stand between it and an EXTINCT label in science books? What would it be like to have people try and stop you from being born? What would it be like to live your whole life with people wanting you to die? What would it be like to have people cheer as you die? I just see a terrible future for the Saps. I feel bad for the Saps Megan ****** "If I treated you the way that you treated me then I would lose my right to pity you for what you are." -Robert, SeaQuest DSV "Daggers PT2" ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ana isabel Sacristan Rock Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history Date: 20 Oct 1998 22:55:21 -0500 (CDT) > There would be TP and Sap > entrances into buildings. TPs dont need entrances. They just jaunt in! Ana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 20 Oct 1998 23:01:07 -0500 (CDT) Just a thought: Other than windows to let in light, do you think that houses and structures ona fully telepathic world would even have doors? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM J M A R C E L L J. E L S E G O O D J J J J Quote 1: "There were mystics from sequestered communities outside J J Taos who used psilocybin as a sacrament, and nuns from a convent J J near Albuquerque who used ethanol for the same purpose." J J Quote 2: "Smithers, there's a rocket in my pocket." ... "You don't J J have to tell me, Sir." J J J EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 01:37:39 CDT > I guess I was wrong. I just remember Carol saying (in a very whiny >voice) "You were a Sap on a world of Tomorrow People. I feel sorry for >you, you must have suffered!" She did, just not to Jedikiah. > Also, there would be thing about segregation. The Saps might not be >allowed to eat, drink, or use the restroom in the same places TP are. >Such as it was in the 1960's in America. I'm not sure about all of that, but I would bet it would happen in the schools. It would start out that the new TP needed their own training with their different abilities... and the ethics as Beth suggested,... and I'm sure it would stick when the TP were the rule and not the exception. And the Sap schools would be (or at least quickly become) poorer schools than the TP schools. They are a dying race of backward people... who would want to teach them? I mean I suppose there would be a few deep hearted people - maybe Liz will come back and retire on Earth - but overall, the TP will have the best teachers and the best effort spent on them... the future. >The TP went through the >same thing they did, only the TP knew that one day they would rule. The >TP had hope, the Saps would not. exactly >But the >Saps wouldn't be able to get the jobs that the TP would. A lot of jobs >would require TK, TP, and TL (teleporting). Very True >So the Saps would be poor. Well, there would be some undesirable jobs that could pay well. > It doesn't look good for the Saps. To carry that even further, what >would it be like to be the LAST Sap on Earth. What would it be like to be >alone, forever? What would it be like to be the last of an entire >species, and all that stand between it and an EXTINCT label in science >books? What would it be like to have people try and stop you from being >born? What would it be like to live your whole life with people wanting >you to die? What would it be like to have people cheer as you die? > > I just see a terrible future for the Saps. > >I feel bad for the Saps Wow. Poor us. But while we are in the majority... I'll stay proud to be the Sap friend. :) Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McElrath, Jamon" Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 11:11:32 -0500 > Also, there would be thing about segregation. The Saps might not be >allowed to eat, drink, or use the restroom in the same places TP are. >Such as it was in the 1960's in America. And the Sap schools would be (or at least quickly become) poorer schools than the TP schools. They are a dying race of backward people... who would want to teach them? I mean I suppose there would be a few deep hearted people - maybe Liz will come back and retire on Earth - but overall, the TP will have the best teachers and the best effort spent on them... the future. This seems a bit extreme. I sincerely believe that being TP does not mean greater intelligence. It would be a great oversight on the part of any TP leadership to ignore the potential of Sap intelligence. I can see problems for the TP when they are the minority, but as soon as they are the majority, their innate pacifism will be the dominate philosophy. Also, I think for the Saps, the TPs would set up a system of matter transportation networks (maybe with another Tim-type computer to process it all) so that there would be equal access. Food replication ability would be shared with all on earth, so the only thing a Sap would miss out on would be telepathy and TK. Probably the greatest advantage a TP has over any Sap is expressed best by Carol: "The Tomorrow People are never alone-anywhere." Perhaps the Saps might start a chain of support groups where particularly sensitive Saps can come to share their problems and fears. But then, a Sap like that is probably a strong candidate for breaking out anyway. And having TK would make me prone to being extra lazy. I would never move!! Jamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 13:59:03 CDT >This seems a bit extreme. I sincerely believe that being TP does not mean >greater intelligence. It would be a great oversight on the part of any TP >leadership to ignore the potential of Sap intelligence. I agree, but I think it is an oversight they would be likely to make. The TP already dismiss the Saps so easily... I can't see them doing better when they have the numbers on their side. >Also, I think for the Saps, the TPs would set up a system of matter >transportation networks >Food replication ability would be >shared with all on earth I agree, there would be a lot of advantages that would be shared with the Saps... but being different in itself would be hard. And as Megan was saying... they are not only different, but on the road to obsolete. Bad as he was, I think Robinoski(sp) was a very understandable character. There would be pluses to the new world, but for the Saps... a lot of minuses as well. >And having TK would make me prone to being extra lazy. I would never move!! Ah, so true... sounds like a great idea. Kristy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Murch" Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 12:14:16 PDT >From: "McElrath, Jamon" >To: 'TPDIS' >Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... >Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:11:32 -0500 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) >Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com > > >> Also, there would be thing about segregation. The Saps might not be >>allowed to eat, drink, or use the restroom in the same places TP are. >>Such as it was in the 1960's in America. Would the tp's need restrooms? Useful uses of TK/PK!!! But you better learn to be accurate fast after breaking out. >And the Sap schools would be (or at least quickly become) poorer schools >than the TP schools. They are a dying race of backward people... who >would want to teach them? I mean I suppose there would be a few deep >hearted people - maybe Liz will come back and retire on Earth - but >overall, the TP will have the best teachers and the best effort spent on >them... the future. > I agree in part but this sort of change would not happen over night. There would be a time when the Saps and tp's would work together to make the world a better place... >This seems a bit extreme. I sincerely believe that being TP does not mean >greater intelligence. It would be a great oversight on the part of any TP >leadership to ignore the potential of Sap intelligence. I can see problems >for the TP when they are the minority, but as soon as they are the majority, >their innate pacifism will be the dominate philosophy. > >Also, I think for the Saps, the TPs would set up a system of matter >transportation networks (maybe with another Tim-type computer to process it >all) so that there would be equal access. Food replication ability would be >shared with all on earth, so the only thing a Sap would miss out on would be >telepathy and TK. Probably the greatest advantage a TP has over any Sap is >expressed best by Carol: "The Tomorrow People are never alone-anywhere." >Perhaps the Saps might start a chain of support groups where particularly >sensitive Saps can come to share their problems and fears. But then, a Sap >like that is probably a strong candidate for breaking out anyway. I will set up the first group. Sensitive Saps may only apply! > >And having TK would make me prone to being extra lazy. I would never move!! > >Jamon Can you imagine a world full of obese tp's too lazy to lift the food into their mouths by hand! Chris. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 15:50:09 EDT In a message dated 98-10-21 15:15:17 EDT, it was stated: << Probably the greatest advantage a TP has over any Sap is >> >expressed best by Carol: "The Tomorrow People are never >>alone-anywhere." >> Now there's a comforting thought: Never being able to shut Carol out of your mind!! All that excessive whining!!!! :P OH, Calgon, take me away!! :) Seriously, that is a nice thought. that would end the 'Net,as we'd have no need for all this anonyminity. We'd know each other better,and could keep all the sociopaths who never leave home and stay on here lurking away from us. Better security I susupect. No more lies, hurting each other etc,etc. But then I suspect that any of the Nazi's from the US GOVERNMENT would try to control the TP's thoughts as they try to control ours now. Look at what's happening to the net even now. Hillary BI**H Clinton wants to control the net herself. Not caring that the US would be interferring with the rights of people from all over the world. I don't mean to ruin the illusion of a UNITED world, full of peacable TP,but ya gotta break a few eggs to make an omlete. Any thoughts about that? Any Fanfic ideas? :) Perhaps the world that Roboski came from wasn't all it was cracked up to be? Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:11:05 +1300 (NZDT) When I first read some of the views on how non -tp's would be treated I thought that there were some really pessimistic people on the group but having thought about it I think some good points have been made. In my opinion it would be best to keep the tp a secret for as long as possible and for tp to slowly "infiltrate" areas of society such as education, psychology, universities and government. Not to mention gaining influence in the media (so tp sightings could be quashed). Then again all this infiltration could eventually look like a "plot" to the non-tps once it was all revealed. Perhaps it would be better for the tps to reveal themselves early (of course taking steps to protect themselves as much as possible) At least with the whole world aware of them government agencies might have to tread more carefully. Segregation probably wouldn't be a problem at first but as more tps developed it would probably become a problem. I think tp "elders" would have to actively encourage tps to mix with non-tps. The fact that non-tps children could turn out to be tp's would probably prevent some prejudice against tps however there are always people around who hate others for stupid reasons. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Newman Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 21:19:25 +0100 Michael Edmonds wrote: > When I first read some of the views on how non -tp's would be treated I > thought that there were some really pessimistic people on the group but > having thought about it I think some good points have been made. In my > opinion it would be best to keep the tp a secret for as long as possible > and for tp to slowly "infiltrate" areas of society such as education, > psychology, universities and government. Not to mention gaining influence > in the media (so tp sightings could be quashed). I thought of this in my fan fic and they set up Jameson Industries to produce the revenue needed to slowly infiltrate the various agencies you mention. > Then again all this infiltration could eventually look like a "plot" to > the non-tps once it was all revealed. Perhaps it would be better for the > tps to reveal themselves early (of course taking steps to protect > themselves as much as possible) At least with the whole world aware of > them government agencies might have to tread more carefully. Yes but we all know how paranoid the Saps can be when there are just a few tp's think what it would be like if a government thought they could get their hands on hundreds of them! > Segregation probably wouldn't be a problem at first but as more tps > developed it would probably become a problem. I think tp "elders" would > have to actively encourage tps to mix with non-tps. > The fact that non-tps children could turn out to be tp's would probably > prevent some prejudice against tps however there are always people around > who hate others for stupid reasons. There's another issue here... Would a tp marry a non telepath. I'v discussed this in IRC chat before and IMHO no because they would miss out on too much. Jackie -- "May your senses be enlightened and your dreams be fulfilled." Traditional Manyarnern Greeting ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Romana3@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 17:44:10 EDT Okay, after reading what every one wrote I think I got a better idea of what I was going to say. First, I sortta agree with just about every one in what they have to say. There might be some problems with the Saps and TPs mixing in with each other. Some of the TP might have a huge ego problem and think them self all high and mighty because they were more superior than the saps. This, to me, would really offend me. But then again, what if a lot of the TPs were not born as a TP? Those kids/people would remember what it was like to be the minority in a group, ,they would remember how it felt not to fit in with others and what not. The last of a dying race. They would not see the saps as inferior beings but would help them out in different. And what if the saps started to evolve.. Not get all the powers that a TP has but small stuff like telepathic abilites and what not. I remember reading in a book called Dark Visions. One of the characters talked about how every person had ESP, but they didn't know how to use it, and some people had more than others. He was going to help people to learn how to use their ESP and make the world a better place so to speak. I think that this is what some of the TP might do. In short this is some of my ideas.. You know this could make a REALLY good fan-fic... Must dash! Romana ~K~ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, the seas asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke, and cities made of song. Somewhere there is danger, somewhere there is injustice, someplace else the teas getting cold. Come along, Ace, we've got work to do." Sylvester McCoy Doctor Who ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: test.. Date: 21 Oct 1998 19:10:17 EDT I haven't gotten any e-mail today! is the list down? (or AOL? or neither?) Sorry if I'm wrong! -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 16:47:43 -0700 Christopher Murch wrote: > Would the tp's need restrooms? Useful uses of TK/PK!!! But you better > learn to be accurate fast after breaking out. Oh no! Did I just hear a TP/restroom question? Now I have to decide whether or not to post some of my ideas... *grin* > Can you imagine a world full of obese tp's too lazy to lift the food > into their mouths by hand! Stephen seems to have a tendency to do things like that... only John makes sure he doesn't enjoy himself *too* much. Can't you just imagine John jaunting all over everywhere making sure that billions of TP's get too lazy? :) -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: Re:TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 20:27:11 -0600 At 05:44 PM 21/10/98 -0400, Romana wrote: > But then again, what if a lot of the TPs were not born as a TP? No TP is born a TP, remember? They break out. Until they break out they don't know whether or not they ARE TP. You can't have schools for non-TP that aren't as good as schools for TP, because until they break out you don't know who's going to be which. None of the TP we know about had TP parents. We don't have enough information to know whether the children of existing TP will also be TP. Given the varying ages at which TP have broken out (11 (Kenny) to late 20s (Tricia)), when is it safe to say that a person isn't going to break out? Sure, the odds diminish as one gets older, but who's to say that I at 40 might not break out if I hung around TP enough (I wish!)? Especially if I showed some limited gift already (empathy, telepathy, or whatever) (I also wish!). We had a discussion on the list a long time ago about how early kids might break out. One point made was that children may not be mentally able to cope with breaking-out before a certain age - not spatially aware enough to jaunt for instance. Someone (Wendy? Beth?) had had a recent psych course and provided some information about mental development that was pertinent. As a parent myself, the idea of a jaunting toddler gives me the screaming heebie jeebies. They're hard enough to keep track of when they're limited to where their feet can take them. I don't think a species where very young children can jaunt would survive very long unless there's a strong enough parental mental bond that the parents can control the kid (wanna try? I'll lend you a 6 year old). Actually the idea of having a teenager that can jaunt gives me the willies too, but at least they're more able to take care of themselves. Also, there's still the possiblility that a TP could have a mentally-challenged child - Down's syndrome, for example. Or a child that was damaged after birth by accident or disease. How would that affect the potential to break out? Can a blind person jaunt? I think it very likely that many non-TP will be afraid/resentful/jealous of TP and I'm sure some of the TP will be arrogant and irritating and there's bound to be friction, even deaths. But the non-TP are still human beings, even if not TP. Still covered by the "prime barrier" that says the TP can't kill them. Still capable of great beauty and many wonders (where would we be today without non-TP?). I don't think the TP can afford to discount future contributions just because of a fluke of genetics. My 2 cents :) Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net 9518-91 st., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6C 3P5 check out the ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 23:31:01 -0500 (CDT) Who says that our telepaths would even be telepathic from birth? If you ask me, telepathic abilities in a newborn or fetus would probably overload a mind, and lead someone to be insane! If not insane, certainly unbalanced, like Tamron (sp?) in the Star Trek:TNG episode "Tin Man"! Think about it. On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 Romana3@aol.com wrote: > Okay, after reading what every one wrote I think I got a better idea of what > I was going to say. First, I sortta agree with just about every one in what > they have to say. There might be some problems with the Saps and TPs mixing in > with each other. Some of the TP might have a huge ego problem and think them > self all high and mighty because they were more superior than the saps. This, > to me, would really offend me. > But then again, what if a lot of the TPs were not born as a TP? Those > kids/people would remember what it was like to be the minority in a group, > ,they would remember how it felt not to fit in with others and what not. The > last of a dying race. They would not see the saps as inferior beings but would > help them out in different. > And what if the saps started to evolve.. Not get all the powers that a TP has > but small stuff like telepathic abilites and what not. I remember reading in a > book called Dark Visions. One of the characters talked about how every person > had ESP, but they didn't know how to use it, and some people had more than > others. He was going to help people to learn how to use their ESP and make the > world a better place so to speak. I think that this is what some of the TP > might do. > In short this is some of my ideas.. You know this could make a REALLY good > fan-fic... > > Must dash! > Romana ~K~ > "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, the seas asleep, and > the rivers dream. People made of smoke, and cities made of song. Somewhere > there is danger, somewhere there is injustice, someplace else the teas getting > cold. Come along, Ace, we've got work to do." > Sylvester McCoy > Doctor Who > > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM J M A R C E L L J. E L S E G O O D J J J J Quote 1: "There were mystics from sequestered communities outside J J Taos who used psilocybin as a sacrament, and nuns from a convent J J near Albuquerque who used ethanol for the same purpose." J J Quote 2: "Smithers, there's a rocket in my pocket." ... "You don't J J have to tell me, Sir." J J J EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Murch" Subject: Re:TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 21 Oct 1998 23:36:28 PDT > >We had a discussion on the list a long time ago about how early kids might >break out. One point made was that children may not be mentally able to cope >with breaking-out before a certain age - not spatially aware enough to jaunt >for instance. Someone (Wendy? Beth?) had had a recent psych course and >provided some information about mental development that was pertinent. As a >parent myself, the idea of a jaunting toddler gives me the screaming heebie jeebies. But what about other planets in the Federation they must be able to cope withtelepathic, telekinetic kids... There must be some way to keep an eye on them. Actually the idea of having a teenager that can jaunt gives me the >willies too, but at least they're more able to take care of themselves. Yeah but think of the freedom... Mom shouts 'your grounded'. Teenager (like Mike)replies 'I'm off and how are you going to stop me!' Also, >there's still the possiblility that a TP could have a mentally-challenged child >- Down's syndrome, for example. Or a child that was damaged after birth by >accident or disease. How would that affect the potential to break out? Can a >blind person jaunt? Of course they can. You don't need to see the place you are jaunting to create a mental image of it. Anyway TIM cuuld use his medi bed to fix any problems... I don't think the TP can afford to discount future >contributions just because of a fluke of genetics. the tp's seem very arrogant when they think of the Saps to me and some will feel superior, like john. But mainly they will have to use them to still contribute to the more boring jobs on the planet. Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Murch" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:58:28 PDT Some one said (Sorry I wipped off who it was by mistake):) >Who says that our telepaths would even be telepathic from birth? If you >ask me, telepathic abilities in a newborn or fetus would probably overload >a mind, and lead someone to be insane! If not insane, certainly >unbalanced, like Tamron (sp?) in the Star Trek:TNG episode "Tin Man"! > >Think about it. > > > But why would nature develop a species with such an obvious design flaw... Surely the TP's brain is developed enough to cope with the additional demands put on it by being telepathic etc. And we have no evidence that a marriage between two tp's won't produce telepathic babies... Apart from Carol they all seem to pretty bad at relationships to me! Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 22 Oct 1998 12:12:01 -0500 >Who says that our telepaths would even be telepathic from >birth? If you ask me, telepathic abilities in a newborn >or fetus would probably overload a mind, and lead someone >to be insane! If not insane, certainly unbalanced, like >Tamron (sp?) in the Star Trek:TNG episode "Tin Man"! If they've evolved, then their brains would be evolved to handle it. Even at a newborn stage I believe telepaths could handle it. However, too much, too early, too fast would overload the mind. Not to the point of death, but would drive the poor kid nuts. Imagine if ppl could nag you telepathically! Raise your hand if "UGH!". Saps, TP, two entirely different animals (literally), Megan **** Tarzan was king of the forest And lord over all the apes But he could hardly strain together four words I Tarzan You Jane -Crash Test Dummies "Superman's Song" ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history.. Date: 22 Oct 1998 13:59:34 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Michael Edmonds wrote: > opinion it would be best to keep the tp a secret for as long as possible > and for tp to slowly "infiltrate" areas of society such as education, > psychology, universities and government. Not to mention gaining influence > in the media (so tp sightings could be quashed). So... How exactly do we know that this HASN'T already happened.... Ohhh Just wishfull thinking I gues.... Scott G ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Trina L. Short" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history.. Date: 22 Oct 1998 16:43:11 -0400 For an interesting take on what happens if people are telepathic from birth, you might check out the Audio Adventure, "Prosperity Island" written by Tim Saward and produced by Bill Baggs Video (they do audio stories as well as videos now)=2E And if you like Doctor Who as well, you get a chance to hear Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred play very very familiar characters=2E=2E=2E Can you say, "Professor!"? --=20 trinalin =A91998 ACME Page Fillers, Inc=2E http://www=2Epagefillers=2Ecom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Adams Subject: TPDIS: A few stray thoughts on future TP evolution Date: 22 Oct 1998 18:25:31 -0500 --=====================_909116731==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From Dianne To Everyone: Greetings: I've given some thought to the current debate on how the world would change while the TP evolve. Up until the point in which TP would be in vast majority, and even beyond that point, the Saps would do anything to keep their vaulted status as the paragon of all. Coupled with Sap intelligence, cunning and violence, anything and everything would be tried from exterminating TP outright, to developing TP specific plagues, to using no TP-telepaths to monitor, influtrate and control, the TP population. (John said somewhere in the second season that there were unfriendly, and dangerous telepaths out there, who were not TP. Those people would have their own agenda, but the Saps could win them over, with money or nationalisitic loyalty.) Should the small, emerging pockets of TP communities should survive on Earth, the TP numbers would continue to grow via break outs, likely in waves of millions and via births. In a post-TP full emergence world, where there are only a few Saps remaining, no one has mentioned that the remaining Saps would be likely jealous of the more advanced TP, and resentful. Granted the TP could theorically create and run a world without physical want, everyone would be fed, educatated and warm, and perhaps legally equal, (not socially by any means), but I can see quite a few Saps resent all comforts and sympathies given to them by the TP civilization. What would the Saps do, I wonder? Perhaps a few would simply give up, and migrate off world to try to re-establish a Sap run planet, however, if the genetics for TP'hood is widespread as I suspect, it would only be a matter of time TP children would come into being on their world, dragging up all of the bad conflicts between the two peoples all over again. So Earth history would be doomed to be repeated over and over again. Then there would be another very stubborn bunch of Saps who would go underground, and carry on the war to hurt, then elimanite the TP anyway they can. Of course, for all of the Sap bravado, and damage, they too would eventually become extinct. Once the Sap population is down to a handful, say four or five people, those few would feel little more than curiosities in a zoo, likely monitored empathically and telepathically, in a world that would be alien to us. Future TPs may be reluctant to phyiscally speak, since they could achieve more expression and detail with a burst of telepathy. Their techinology would be an extention of their biology, hence one would need to be able to use TK instead of fingers and hands. Of course, evolution is a never ending process. Perhaps future TP would become obese, living out their lives in elaborate mental constructs, teleporting food into their bodies and not moving. Somehow, I think feeding in this manner would be horribly boring, like having a feeing tube in you all of the time. Perhaps out of a malaise of missing the Saps, a few TP might attempt to reverse evolution via genetic engineering, to the point of eradicating their powers and barriers. However, since native evolution would carry on, I see future TP in general developing the mental, over the phyiscal. Over the generations, TP could eventually evolve out of phyiscal form, into maybe an energy life form. Naturally, a lot of this is stolen from various science fiction epics, but for an interesting conjecture on the future of humankind was written by Dougal Dixon in 'Man After Man'. Hope I was not too verbose. Dianne --=====================_909116731==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="RESPONSE.TXT" From Dianne To Everyone: Greetings: I've given some thought to the current debate on how the world would change while the TP evolve. Up until the point in which TP would be in vast majority, and even beyond that point, the Saps would do anything to keep their vaulted status as the paragon of all. Coupled with Sap intelligence, cunning and violence, anything and everything would be tried from exterminating TP outright, to developing TP specific plagues, to using no TP-telepaths to monitor, influtrate and control, the TP population. (John said somewhere in the second season that there were unfriendly, and dangerous telepaths out there, who were not TP. Those people would have their own agenda, but the Saps could win them over, with money or nationalisitic loyalty.) Should the small, emerging pockets of TP communities should survive on Earth, the TP numbers would continue to grow via break outs, likely in waves of millions and via births. In a post-TP full emergence world, where there are only a few Saps remaining, no one has mentioned that the remaining Saps would be likely jealous of the more advanced TP, and resentful. Granted the TP could theorically create and run a world without physical want, everyone would be fed, educatated and warm, and perhaps legally equal, (not socially by any means), but I can see quite a few Saps resent all comforts and sympathies given to them by the TP civilization. What would the Saps do, I wonder? Perhaps a few would simply give up, and migrate off world to try to re-establish a Sap run planet, however, if the genetics for TP'hood is widespread as I suspect, it would only be a matter of time TP children would come into being on their world, dragging up all of the bad conflicts between the two peoples all over again. So Earth history would be doomed to be repeated over and over again. Then there would be another very stubborn bunch of Saps who would go underground, and carry on the war to hurt, then elimanite the TP anyway they can. Of course, for all of the Sap bravado, and damage, they too would eventually become extinct. Once the Sap population is down to a handful, say four or five people, those few would feel little more than curiosities in a zoo, likely monitored empathically and telepathically, in a world that would be alien to us. Future TPs may be reluctant to phyiscally speak, since they could achieve more expression and detail with a burst of telepathy. Their techinology would be an extention of their biology, hence one would need to be able to use TK instead of fingers and hands. Of course, evolution is a never ending process. Perhaps future TP would become obese, living out their lives in elaborate mental constructs, teleporting food into their bodies and not moving. Somehow, I think feeding in this manner would be horribly boring, like having a feeing tube in you all of the time. Perhaps out of a malaise of missing the Saps, a few TP might attempt to reverse evolution via genetic engineering, to the point of eradicating their powers and barriers. However, since native evolution would carry on, I see future TP in general developing the mental, over the phyiscal. Over the generations, TP could eventually evolve out of phyiscal form, into maybe an energy life form. Naturally, a lot of this is stolen from various science fiction epics, but for an interesting conjecture on the future of humankind was written by Dougal Dixon in 'Man After Man'. Hope I was not too verbose. Dianne --=====================_909116731==_-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: Poor Geoffy-chan ^_^ Date: 22 Oct 1998 19:22:16 EDT Geoff has notified me that his email (Latimer84@aol.com) won't be working for a while... he's waiting for tech support from aol... (and we all know how nice they are... ahem). He'd just like everybody to be aware of this. On a side note, for those who like anime, I recently talked to one of the major producers/directors/voice actors for the company ADV (http://www.advfilms.com), and she turns out to be a big fan of the Tomorrow People too. Her name's Amanda Winn Lee, and she's played... um, well actually she's played quite a few roles in anime... I have a list for her at my Dub Seiyuu page: (http://www.cyhaus.com/Camp/Jupiter/seiyuu.htm) Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history Date: 22 Oct 1998 20:12:45 EDT In a message dated 98-10-20 23:57:28 EDT, you write: > > There would be TP and Sap > > entrances into buildings. > > TPs dont need entrances. They just jaunt in! There's a scary thought! Maybe they had no entrances to buildings, just to keep saps out? Then Volumin (or whatever =) would be a *serious* problem... -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: Volumin in our "future history" Date: 22 Oct 1998 20:40:19 EDT What would happen if some sociopathic sap () got some volumin? Especially if there were no doors.. -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Heidi H. Tandy Subject: TPDIS: Teleportation study - story on CNN Date: 22 Oct 1998 21:08:18 -0600 I'm at work, where I have no fun incoming email, but saw this on CNN, and don't know if it's been sent to the list yet - it's only 30 minutes old, so I think not - but you're a fast bunch of people! Spooky teleportation study brings future closer October 22, 1998 Web posted at: 4:50 PM EDT WASHINGTON (Reuters) - They may not be able to ask Scotty to beam them up yet, but California researchers said Thursday they had completed the first "full" teleportation experiment. They said they had teleported a beam of light across a laboratory bench. They did not physically transport the beam itself, but transmitted its properties to another beam, creating a replica of the first beam. "We claim this is the first bona fide teleportation," Jeff Kimble, a physics professor at the California Institute of Technology, said in a telephone interview. Kimble thinks the experiment can eventually transform everyday life. Scientists hope that quantum computers, which move information about in this way rather than by using wires and silicon chips, will be infinitely faster and more powerful than present-day computers. "I believe that quantum information is going to be really important for our society, not in five years or 10 years, but if we look into the 100-year time frame it's hard to imagine that advanced societies don't use quantum information," Kimble said. "The appetite of society is so voracious for the moving and processing of information that it will be driven to exploit even the crazy realm of quantum physics." Quantum teleportation allows information to be transmitted at the speed of light -- the fastest speed possible -- without being slowed down by wires or cables. The experiment depends on a property known as entanglement -- what Albert Einstein once described as "spooky action at a distance." It is a property of atomic particles that mystifies even physicists. Sometimes two particles that are a very long distance apart are nonetheless somehow twinned, with the properties of one affecting the other. "Entanglement means if you tickle one the other one laughs," Kimble said. In the weird world of quantum physics, where the normal ideas of what is solid or what is real do not apply, scientists can use these properties to their advantage. What Kimble's team did was create two entangled light beams -- streams of photons. Photons, the basic unit of light, sometimes act like particles and sometimes like waves. They used these two entangled beams to carry information about the quantum state of a third beam. The first two beams were destroyed in the process, but the third successfully transmitted its properties over a distance of about a yard , Kimble's team reported in the journal Science. Last December a team of physicists in Innsbruck, Austria and a month later another team in Rome said they did a similar thing, with single photons. But Kimble said his team was able to verify what they had done, and also used full light beams as opposed to single photons. "Ours is an important advance beyond that," he said. Although the Caltech team worked with light, Kimble thinks teleportation could be applied to solid objects. For instance, the quantum state of a photon could be teleported and applied to a particle, even to an atom. "Way beyond sex change operations and genetic engineering, the quantum state of one entity could be transported to another entity," Kimble said. "We think we know how to do that." In other words, an object's individual atoms would not be transported, but transmitting its properties could create a perfect replica. Could this mean the transporters of the television and movie science-fiction series Star Trek, which beam people and objects for huge distances, could one day be a reality? "I don't think anybody knows the answer," Kimble said. "Let's don't teleport a person -- let's teleport the smallest bacterium. How much entanglement would we need to teleport such a thing?" Would such a teleported bacterium actually be the same bacterium, or just a very good copy? "Again, no one knows for sure," Kimble said. But his team is working on it. Close your eyes, get so dizzy... - Faster Than Light (Neil Finn) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 22 Oct 1998 22:21:20 -0600 At 09:58 AM 22/10/98 -0700, Chris wrote: >But why would nature develop a species with such an obvious design >flaw... Surely the TP's brain is developed enough to cope with the >additional demands put on it by being telepathic etc. The only evidence we have about how human TP develop is what we've seen in the series. No evidence of pre-puberty talent at all. Anyway, maybe it isn't a design flaw. Maybe it is a survival trait. Children are not born with the skills and judgement to use gifts like this wisely or safely. Maybe nature protects them by making those gifts inaccessible to them until their mental development is advanced enough to handle them. We know nothing about how other telepathic species develop either. >And we have no evidence that a marriage between two tp's won't produce >telepathic babies... Apart from Carol they all seem to pretty bad at >relationships to me! Apart from Carol they haven't found anyone to have relationships with! Me, I think after War of the Empires Liz somehow forced John to attend University, where he maybe met a few people :) Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net Edmonton, Alberta, Canada check out the ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: Re:TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 22 Oct 1998 22:07:43 -0600 At 11:36 PM 21/10/98 -0700, Chris wrote: >But what about other planets in the Federation they must be able to cope >withtelepathic, telekinetic kids... There must be some way to keep an >eye on them. Well, we don't know that, do we? Maybe they are non-telepathic up to a certain age, too. Or maybe telepathic but they can't jaunt. We can argue this back and forth until we're all blue in the face - we just don't have any proof either way :) >>Actually the idea of having a teenager that can jaunt gives me the >>willies too, but at least they're more able to take care of themselves. > >Yeah but think of the freedom... Mom shouts 'your grounded'. Teenager >(like Mike)replies 'I'm off and how are you going to stop me!' My point exactly :) (you're not a parent yet, are you?). >Also, >>there's still the possiblility that a TP could have a >mentally-challenged child >>- Down's syndrome, for example. Or a child that was damaged after >birth by >>accident or disease. How would that affect the potential to break out? >Can a >>blind person jaunt? > >Of course they can. You don't need to see the place you are jaunting to >create a mental image of it. I'm not convinced of that. But again, we lack information to categorically state one way or the other. >Anyway TIM cuuld use his medi bed to fix >any problems... Can he? Deus ex machina for sure. I think it all depends on what caused the problem. Friend of mine's kid was diagnosed with retinoblastoma when 6 months old - she had to have one eye removed and radiation therapy to kill the cancer in the other eye. We don't know that TIM's medi-centre includes the capability to regenerate tissue that no longer exists. Maybe he could have cured the cancer so both eyes could be saved in the first place. Maybe not. >>I don't think the TP can afford to discount future >>contributions just because of a fluke of genetics. > >the tp's seem very arrogant when they think of the Saps to me and some >will feel superior, like john. But mainly they will have to use them to >still contribute to the more boring jobs on the planet. Oh, boy. Brain the size of a planet and here I am parking cars. No wonder the non-tps will hate the tps. Just because they're TP doesn't mean they're all Mensa material you know (look at Mike!). I don't think John is arrogant. The non-TP are the parents of the TP. He's cautious, and he's rightly afraid of going public too early. He understands the need to pick his battles. He has done what he's had to do to save Earth for the TP and non-TP alike. Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net Edmonton, Alberta, Canada check out the ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: Re: TPDIS: A few stray thoughts on future TP evolution Date: 22 Oct 1998 22:26:59 -0600 At 06:25 PM 22/10/98 -0500, Dianne wrote some interesting stuff that I snipped and: > Of course, evolution is a never ending process. Perhaps future TP would >become obese, living out their lives in elaborate mental constructs, >teleporting food into their bodies and not moving. Somehow, I think >feeding in this manner would be horribly boring, like having a feeing tube >in you all of the time. Perhaps out of a malaise of missing the Saps, a >few TP might attempt to reverse evolution via genetic engineering, to the >point of eradicating their powers and barriers. However, since native >evolution would carry on, I see future TP in general developing the mental, >over the phyiscal. Over the generations, TP could eventually evolve out of >phyiscal form, into maybe an energy life form. This doesn't seem to have happened to the other Federation races that we've seen, though. I think there is something in humanity that needs challenges. I think they'd be out there, exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations... er, well, something like that, anyway. Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net Edmonton, Alberta, Canada check out the ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 23 Oct 1998 01:11:21 EDT In a message dated 98-10-23 00:27:55 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re:TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 98-10-23 00:27:55 EDT From: starr@planet.eon.net (jane starr) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com >>At 11:36 PM 21/10/98 -0700, Chris wrote: >But what about other planets in the Federation they must be able to cope >withtelepathic, telekinetic kids... There must be some way to keep an >eye on them. >>Well, we don't know that, do we? Maybe they are non-telepathic up to a certain >>age, too. Or maybe telepathic but they can't jaunt. We can argue this back >>and forth until we're all blue in the face - we just don't have any proof >>either way :) I suppose it would be foolish to suggest that in other Federation planets that have an open TP group or what have you, use their Biotronic Computer to assist them to a point? TIM stated at some point, I think, that he's constantly monitoring world media and searching for new TP,so he could possibly alert the parents as to the whereabouts of their kids via jaunting belt/band or by ''reading'' their minds while in the Lab area to make certain that it an accidental Jaunt was going to occur that they could be prepared to prevent it by getting the toddler's attention or something? I dont mean to imply that TIM is ''all-knowing-all-seeing'' as some think,but that with the knowldge that he must have, he could be of some assitance. >Also, there's still the possiblility that a TP could have a >mentally-challenged child- Down's syndrome, for example. Or a child that was >damaged after birth by accident or disease. How would that affect the potential to >break out? Can a blind person jaunt? > >Of course they can. You don't need to see the place you are jaunting to >create a mental image of it. >>I'm not convinced of that. But again, we lack information to categorically >>state one way or the other. I concur. I think that they stated in an early episode that they can only Jaunt short distances unaided,and that ''line of sight'' was also necessary without TIM's help. Also, since they used the Jaunting Pad, I assume that was created not just for a common place to appear,but also to prevent accidental materialisation into a wall. Assume that a TP needs to make an emergency Jaunt and during the fear\escape cycle going on in their brain they are thinking about home and the Lab at the same time? What then? Simple, they Jaunt,and TIM assists,to prevent being lost in Hyperspace. >Anyway TIM cuuld use his medi bed to fix >any problems... >>Can he? Deus ex machina for sure. I think it all depends on what caused the >>problem. Friend of mine's kid was diagnosed with retinoblastoma when 6 months >>old - she had to have one eye removed and radiation therapy to kill the cancer >>in the other eye. We don't know that TIM's medi-centre includes the capability >>to regenerate tissue that no longer exists. Maybe he could have cured the >> cancer so both eyes could be saved in the first place. Maybe not. Sorry to read about that. That's so sad. Again, TIM isnt GOD. He can only do what he is programmed to do,and if its your time to go, you go. Think about how many people die in hospitals every year from ''simple operations'' that Doctor's do EVERY DAY! Why do they die? Becasue its their time, just as many people who should've died, didnt. I've read fanfict where TP died from AIDS, cancer, and other things that TIM could've prevented,but couldn't. Its sad,but somethings are beyond us arrogant humans control,and we hate it,but that's life. > >> I don't think John is arrogant. The non-TP are the parents of the TP. He's >> cautious, and he's rightly afraid of going public too early. He understands >>the need to pick his battles. He has done what he's had to do to save Earth >>for the TP and non-TP alike. I agree. John is very much a ''by the book'' man. True, he might appear whimpy at times,but he's fought very hard for the TP over the years. He was still a kid himself at the begining,but I think that he's matured a bit so that now in the 90's if he's still leader,then he's a very wise one by now. He'd give his very life to save the Earth, regardless as to rather it was under Sap or TP rule. I assume that he'd be tempted to try to put some of the more insane world leaders in prison,but i doubt that he'd want to be responsible for the possible deaths of innocents that would occur from that interference. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ana isabel Sacristan Rock Subject: Re: TPDIS: Teleportation study - story on CNN Date: 23 Oct 1998 00:18:24 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Heidi H. Tandy wrote: > I'm at work, where I have no fun incoming email, but saw this on CNN, > and don't know if it's been sent to the list yet - it's only 30 minutes > old, so > I think not - but you're a fast bunch of people! > > Spooky teleportation study brings future closer > > October 22, 1998 > Web posted at: 4:50 PM EDT > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - They > may not be able to ask Scotty to beam > them up yet, but California researchers > said Thursday they had completed the > first "full" teleportation experiment. > > They said they had teleported a beam > of light across a laboratory bench. Earlier this year I read about another experiment done in Switzerland (and written in such similar way to this one, that I first thought it was the same), where what was done to one particle, SIMULTANEOUSLY affected another particle more than 20 kilometers away. I dont remember the details, but the article did say this phenomenon was at the basis for future teleportation. Ana. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ana isabel Sacristan Rock Subject: TPDIS: TP relationships Date: 23 Oct 1998 00:22:38 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, jane starr wrote: > > Apart from Carol they haven't found anyone to have relationships with! Me, I > think after War of the Empires Liz somehow forced John to attend University, > where he maybe met a few people :) > About a year ago I actually wrote a fanfic about John having a romance, but I havent shown it to anyone. (When I tried the message got lost, and I never tried sending it again). Just in case anyone is interested in beta reading it. Ana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP relationships Date: 23 Oct 1998 01:46:01 EDT In a message dated 98-10-23 01:24:44 EDT, you write: << Subj: TPDIS: TP relationships Date: 98-10-23 01:24:44 EDT From: asacrist@mail.cinvestav.mx (Ana isabel Sacristan Rock) Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Reply-to: tpdis@lists.xmission.com To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, jane starr wrote: > > Apart from Carol they haven't found anyone to have relationships with! Me, I > think after War of the Empires Liz somehow forced John to attend University, > where he maybe met a few people :) > >>About a year ago I actually wrote a fanfic about John having a romance, >>but I havent shown it to anyone. (When I tried the message got lost, and I >>never tried sending it again). Just in case anyone is interested in beta >>reading it. Hi, Sure, I'd LOVE to read it. I'm always looking for fanfict to read. If you want to, please do send me a copy or post it here. Jeff ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v50.22) with SMTP; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:24:43 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id BAA18519; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zWZi9-0001CI-00 for tpdis-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:24:29 -0600 Received: from [148.247.1.4] (helo=enigma.red.cinvestav.mx ident=asacrist) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zWZi6-0001C8-00 for tpdis@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:24:26 -0600 Received: from localhost (asacrist@localhost) by enigma.red.cinvestav.mx (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA17458 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:22:38 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:22:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Ana isabel Sacristan Rock To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com Subject: TPDIS: TP relationships In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981022220831.00a6c220@pop.planet.eon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-tpdis@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Adams Date: 23 Oct 1998 10:23:53 -0500 Greetings good folks: I'm Dianne's significant other, breaking in if I may. Dianne tried to send this last night as an attatchment, and it appears to have mis-fired. Our house telephone is dead at the moment, so I'll see about re-sending it as a straight e-mail from the office. If this is a redundancy, let me offer my sincerest apologies. W. L. Adams From Dianne To Everyone: Greetings: I've given some thought to the current debate on how the world would change while the TP evolve. Up until the point in which TP would be in vast majority, and even beyond that point, the Saps would do anything to keep their vaulted status as the paragon of all. Coupled with Sap intelligence, cunning and violence, anything and everything would be tried from exterminating TP outright, to developing TP specific plagues, to using no TP-telepaths to monitor, influtrate and control, the TP population. (John said somewhere in the second season that there were unfriendly, and dangerous telepaths out there, who were not TP. Those people would have their own agenda, but the Saps could win them over, with money or nationalisitic loyalty.) Should the small, emerging pockets of TP communities should survive on Earth, the TP numbers would continue to grow via break outs, likely in waves of millions and via births. In a post-TP full emergence world, where there are only a few Saps remaining, no one has mentioned that the remaining Saps would be likely jealous of the more advanced TP, and resentful. Granted the TP could theorically create and run a world without physical want, everyone would be fed, educatated and warm, and perhaps legally equal, (not socially by any means), but I can see quite a few Saps resent all comforts and sympathies given to them by the TP civilization. What would the Saps do, I wonder? Perhaps a few would simply give up, and migrate off world to try to re-establish a Sap run planet, however, if the genetics for TP'hood is widespread as I suspect, it would only be a matter of time TP children would come into being on their world, dragging up all of the bad conflicts between the two peoples all over again. So Earth history would be doomed to be repeated over and over again. Then there would be another very stubborn bunch of Saps who would go underground, and carry on the war to hurt, then elimanite the TP anyway they can. Of course, for all of the Sap bravado, and damage, they too would eventually become extinct. Once the Sap population is down to a handful, say four or five people, those few would feel little more than curiosities in a zoo, likely monitored empathically and telepathically, in a world that would be alien to us. Future TPs may be reluctant to phyiscally speak, since they could achieve more expression and detail with a burst of telepathy. Their techinology would be an extention of their biology, hence one would need to be able to use TK instead of fingers and hands. Of course, evolution is a never ending process. Perhaps future TP would become obese, living out their lives in elaborate mental constructs, teleporting food into their bodies and not moving. Somehow, I think feeding in this manner would be horribly boring, like having a feeing tube in you all of the time. Perhaps out of a malaise of missing the Saps, a few TP might attempt to reverse evolution via genetic engineering, to the point of eradicating their powers and barriers. However, since native evolution would carry on, I see future TP in general developing the mental, over the phyiscal. Over the generations, TP could eventually evolve out of phyiscal form, into maybe an energy life form. Naturally, a lot of this is stolen from various science fiction epics, but for an interesting conjecture on the future of humankind was written by Dougal Dixon in 'Man After Man'. Hope I was not too verbose. Dianne ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jen Sulzer" Subject: Re:TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 23 Oct 1998 09:31:38 -0400 -----Original Message----- >At 05:44 PM 21/10/98 -0400, Romana wrote: >> But then again, what if a lot of the TPs were not born as a TP? > >No TP is born a TP, remember? They break out. Until they break out they don't >know whether or not they ARE TP. You can't have schools for non-TP that aren't >as good as schools for TP, because until they break out you don't know who's >going to be which. None of the TP we know about had TP parents. We don't have >enough information to know whether the children of existing TP will also be TP. >Given the varying ages at which TP have broken out (11 (Kenny) to late 20s >(Tricia)), when is it safe to say that a person isn't going to break out? >Sure, the odds diminish as one gets older, but who's to say that I at 40 might >not break out if I hung around TP enough (I wish!)? Especially if I showed >some limited gift already (empathy, telepathy, or whatever) (I also wish!). > >We had a discussion on the list a long time ago about how early kids might >break out. One point made was that children may not be mentally able to cope >with breaking-out before a certain age - not spatially aware enough to jaunt >for instance. Someone (Wendy? Beth?) had had a recent psych course and >provided some information about mental development that was pertinent. As a >parent myself, the idea of a jaunting toddler gives me the screaming heebie >jeebies. They're hard enough to keep track of when they're limited to where >their feet can take them. I don't think a species where very young children >can jaunt would survive very long unless there's a strong enough parental >mental bond that the parents can control the kid (wanna try? I'll lend you a 6 >year old). Actually the idea of having a teenager that can jaunt gives me the >willies too, but at least they're more able to take care of themselves. > >Jane You think a teleporting toddler is bad? How about a teething telepathic infant? Just imagine the headaches! I would hope TIM, John, and the others would be able to create some type of "shield" that would prevent premature break-outs, or at least limit what the children were able to do! Jen "Live, love, learn, share, and survive." Peter Wingfield ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 24 Oct 1998 10:18:28 +1000 > From: McElrath, Jamon > > This seems a bit extreme. I sincerely believe that being TP does not mean > greater intelligence. It would be a great oversight on the part of any TP > leadership to ignore the potential of Sap intelligence. I can see problems > for the TP when they are the minority, but as soon as they are the > majority, their innate pacifism will be the dominate philosophy. Personally, I feel the TP are more intelligent than the Saps - we have quite a bit of evidence to support this. The Tomorrow People seem to have invented a large array of powerful technological items while still very young - stun guns, matter transporters, etc. We know John has invented many useful objects from 'The Slaves of Jedikiah' and it is mentioned in 'The Visitor' that Stephen has also invented some items. We also have mentioned in 'The Visitor' that Stephen is able to calculate the altitude of a descending spacecraft and it's speed of deceleration simply by direct observation of the object. It is suggested that Carol, John and Kenny are also able to do so. We also have the following statement in 'The Visitor' that certainly suggest the TP have higher than average intelligence: "Stephen's father, now attempting once more to concentrate on his newspaper, was a physicist employed on medical research at one of the great London hospitals. Though he was extremely able in his own field, Stephen had soon been forced to give up his attempts to explain to him the mechanics of jaunting and tele-kinesis, the power of moving objects by thought, which all Tomorrow People possessed. They were simply beyond even the keenest Sap brain." (The Visitor, page 12). I think it's fairly obvious the Tomorrow People are generally more intelligent than the Saps. And I feel that this would (and should) mean that they would need a different education to Saps as they become more widespread. No matter what the intentions behind it, this could very easily lead to prejudice and discrimination against the Saps. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 24 Oct 1998 10:52:23 +1000 > From: Michael Edmonds > > When I first read some of the views on how non -tp's would be treated I > thought that there were some really pessimistic people on the group but > having thought about it I think some good points have been made. In my > opinion it would be best to keep the tp a secret for as long as possible > and for tp to slowly "infiltrate" areas of society such as education, > psychology, universities and government. Not to mention gaining influence > in the media (so tp sightings could be quashed). > Then again all this infiltration could eventually look like a "plot" to > the non-tps once it was all revealed. Perhaps it would be better for the > tps to reveal themselves early (of course taking steps to protect > themselves as much as possible) At least with the whole world aware of > them government agencies might have to tread more carefully. > Segregation probably wouldn't be a problem at first but as more tps > developed it would probably become a problem. I think tp "elders" would > have to actively encourage tps to mix with non-tps. > The fact that non-tps children could turn out to be tp's would probably > prevent some prejudice against tps however there are always people around > who hate others for stupid reasons. Am I pessimistic? Well, yes I am to an extent, but I also feel I'm realistic. We are talking about the evolution of a new species of mankind here. Evolution is often simpy expressed as being about 'Survival of the Fittest'. While this is a simplification of a very complex idea, it does have some truth to it - the species that is best adapted to its environment will eventually become the dominant species, and any species that is less developed will eventually cease to exist. In nature, there is always a struggle between different species whenever there is a lack of resources. While I don't support most of the theories of environmental armageddon you see in the media, it is clear that as the number of people on Earth increases, there is more pressure on the Earth's natural resources. While, if we use effective methods of agriculture, pollution management, food distribution etc, we can certainly slow down the effects of this pressure, there will come a time when we are facing pressures that threaten the survival of mankind - it may not be for 10,000 years or longer, but at some point it will occur - unless we die out before it happens. At that point, even if not before, a struggle will develop between Homo superior and Homo sapiens for dominance. Even if the Tomorrow People are total pacifists who wish to live in harmony with the Saps, the Saps (or at least some elements of them) will not wish to live in harmony with the Tomorrow People, and they will attempt to dominate. Homo superior will be faced with a very limited number of alternatives - fail to resist, in which case Homo sapiens will emerge as the dominant species, and Homo superior will fall by the wayside (bear in mind, this may have happened before - there is some evidence that the Neandertals may have been more intelligent and culturally advanced than Cro-Magnon man of the same era, but Cro-Magnon managed to survive to be our ancestors while Neandertal ceased to exist.) Or the Tomorrow People can fight back (without killing - as Liz says, not being able to kill does lower the Tomorrow People's chance of survival as a species) and come to dominate. Homo sapiens is an inferior and doomed species. This is a fact in the universe of the Tomorrow People. Yes, the Tomorrow People may attempt to ease the transition, allowing Homo sapiens to die out gradually and naturally, rather than engaging in genocide, but short of establishing reserves or 'zoos' I can see no logical reason for taking any special measures to allow Homo sapiens to survive. Actually I've often wondered why Rabowski in 'The Medusa Strain' describes telepaths as Homo novis - perhaps the TP leadership has decided to drop the designation Homo superior by that time, because it is perceived as being something akin to 'racism'. A two class world will develop - those who are members of the superior strain of mankind, and those who are part of the doomed species. Even if the rights of Homo sapiens are protected, that doesn't mean they will be equal - look at the US Declaration of Independance with it's declaration of the 'self evident' truth that all men are created equal. 190 years later, black Americans were still fighting for their civil rights to be enshrined in law, and even today there are obviously still major flaws. Australia created 'Protectors of Aborigines' to ensure that the rights of our indigenous people were protected, and yet, universal citizenship didn't come until the 1960s. This is true in so many places - that people may, with the best will in the world, attempt to protect the rights of others, but that it ends up doing comparatively little. And there is a difference between the racism of the past (and today) and the situation as regards the Homo superior/ Homo sapiens situation in my opinion. Racism occurs on the basis of a FALSE belief that one form of man is superior to another. But there is no reason to doubt that Tomorrow People are superior to Homo sapiens, as far as I can see. They have a set of abilities (the Three Ts) which are obviously not shared by Homo sapiens. They can't kill deliberately. There may be other differences as well - perhaps they are more intelligent, or perhaps not, perhaps they live longer, perhaps not - but there are a few definite and real things that separate Homo superior from Homo sapiens. I do think the leaders of the Tomorrow People will seek to protect Homo sapiens from prejudice as much as they can. I think they will attempt to set up systems of matter transportation to compensate for the inability to jaunt. I think they'd also seek to ban discrimination on the basis of species - but that would not stop discrimination on the basis of ability and the TP do have some abilities the Saps lack. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 24 Oct 1998 11:06:08 +1000 > From: Romana3@aol.com > > But then again, what if a lot of the TPs were not born as a TP? Those > kids/people would remember what it was like to be the minority in a group, > ,they would remember how it felt not to fit in with others and what not. As has been pointed out, it doesn't seem that anyone is born with the abilities of a Tomorrow Person, but that they develop them sometime around puberty. But even so - would this make much difference to their outlook? Children don't have the vote - regardless of their race. They also have less rights than adults in almost every area. Historically, does this mean that a white person who turned 21 and acquired the vote and acquired adult rights, had much in the way of empathy for the black person who turned 21 and did not? > And what if the saps started to evolve.. Not get all the powers that a > TP has but small stuff like telepathic abilites and what not. That's a slightly different issue, because if the Saps started to evolve it does change the situation we are talking about - we're no longer talking about a struggle between Homo superior and Homo sapiens, but a struggle between Homo superior and another new form of human (albeit a less advanced one). Certainly, if the Saps develop skills that improve their abilities, it will improve their chance of survival. > I remember reading in a book called Dark Visions. One of the characters > talked about how every person had ESP, but they didn't know how to use it, > and some people had more than others. He was going to help people to learn > how to use their ESP and make the world a better place so to speak. I > think that this is what some of the TP might do. Sure - and we do know that some Saps have either telepathy or telekinesis. We also know that some TP never actually develop their full powers. I think every effort would be made to help people reach whatever potential they have (unlike today!) and for some people, this will greatly improve their life. But to what extent? Take me - I have very poor eyesight. Without my glasses on, I border on the legal definition of blind. With my glasses on, I can see almost perfectly - well enough to function in daily life. I can do almost anything I choose to. So the help I have been given (in the form of specs) have allowed me to become a useful member of society. But some people can't be helped - those who have eyesight conditions that we still don't know how to correct. Their disability means they are very limited in what they can do - it doesn't make them useless by any means but it does cut down on their options. And while I can see well enough to do most things, I couldn't (for example) be a fighter pilot. My eyesight isn't good enough for that. Helping people to achieve their full potential and training them is worthwhile and I am sure it would happen in a TP world. But even with all the training, some people are going to have less ability than others just as occurs in our world. And if (as I suspect) the general ability of the Saps is lower than that of the TP, they will become less and less prominent until they all but fade from existance. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 23 Oct 1998 22:46:00 EDT In a message dated 98-10-23 21:25:25 EDT, you write: > And while I can see well enough to do > most things, I couldn't (for example) be a fighter pilot. But Shaun, TP can't kill! I wonder, could TP join the army (or navy or whatever) or a political thing where they'd be forced to kill even if they didn't (i.e. went AWOL), or be in a government position where they'd order attacks? -Geoff the Wonderer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 23 Oct 1998 23:00:38 EDT In a message dated 98-10-23 12:30:25 EDT, you write: > You think a teleporting toddler is bad? How about a teething telepathic > infant? Just imagine the headaches! I would hope TIM, John, and the others > would be able to create some type of "shield" that would prevent premature > break-outs, or at least limit what the children were able to do! We're treading in *dangerous* waters here!!! You think that the government should be able to control TPs' powers? So I'm 14, so maybe I should just have telepathy? Or nothing at all, since I'm a minor?!? Trying not to get steamed (and doing a pretty bad job of it!), -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy O'Neal" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Poor Geoffy-chan ^_^ Date: 23 Oct 1998 23:30:33 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 AmyH3x4@aol.com wrote: > On a side note, for those who like anime, I recently talked to one of the > major producers/directors/voice actors for the company ADV > (http://www.advfilms.com), and she turns out to be a big fan of the Tomorrow > People too. Her name's Amanda Winn Lee, and she's played... um, well actually > she's played quite a few roles in anime... I have a list for her at my Dub > Seiyuu page: (http://www.cyhaus.com/Camp/Jupiter/seiyuu.htm) > > Amy :) Misato is a TP fan! Hey, my favorite Eva character is a TP fan. Nifty! :) Anywho, This topic is really great, and it makes you think. Here's a thought, how many TP make a world an 'Open World', as apposed to being 'Closed' at the moment. And if the Saps get really hostile, who says they won't reactivate the dampaning field that broke down the Original TP series? :) Timothy O'Neal/KishiSankaku Stirring the pot.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy O'Neal" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Poor Geoffy-chan ^_^ Date: 23 Oct 1998 23:38:22 -0500 (CDT) > Misato is a TP fan! Hey, my favorite Eva character is a TP fan. Nifty! :) *feels silly for a moment and thanks Amy for her Seiyuu page* So, she's not Misato, but she's a nother fave, Rei Ayanami. :) Oh well.... TIM/KishiSankaku :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Matott" Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP holiday Date: 23 Oct 1998 21:57:30 PDT > June 25th is either St. John >Baptiste day or the day after it, the big cultural bash in Quebec (not that >there are any Quebecois on the list either). I'm descended from Quebecois. My father's paternal line is French Canadian. And St. Jean de Baptiste Day is June 24. (I know this because it's my birthday. It's also exactly 6 months before Christmas Eve.) mike Greyfalcon aka Mike Matott Nothing is stranger than reality ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Newman Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP relationships Date: 24 Oct 1998 06:05:52 +0100 Hi All Ana isabel Sacristan Rock wrote: > On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, jane starr wrote: > > > > Apart from Carol they haven't found anyone to have relationships with! Me, I > > think after War of the Empires Liz somehow forced John to attend University, > > where he maybe met a few people :) > > > > About a year ago I actually wrote a fanfic about John having a romance, > but I havent shown it to anyone. (When I tried the message got lost, and I > never tried sending it again). Just in case anyone is interested in beta > reading it. > > Ana I have, at last, completed my epic TP novel and will be posting it to the fictlist this weekend. One reason that I mentioned the future history of the TP's in the first place was to judge the groups opinion on the possible future. I never guessed it would stimulate such detailed debate. I think that many of you may disagree with my ideas but at least they all marry and have kids... As for telepathic toddlers... read it and see! Jackie -- "May your senses be enlightened and your dreams be fulfilled." Traditional Manyarnern Greeting ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 25 Oct 1998 12:31:18 -0800 This is kind of an odd question, but what social situation do you think Jade would find most distressing? -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People Saylormars@geocities.com IRC 9737939 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 25 Oct 1998 16:11:20 EST In a message dated 98-10-25 15:33:14 EST, you write: > This is kind of an odd question, but what social situation do you think > Jade would find most distressing? Something where she offended someone, I'd say. Or maybe if she was seriously offended by something =) -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heidi tandy Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... & a Date: 25 Oct 1998 16:36:06 -0500 On the issue of how saps & TPs would live together, I've got a bunch of comments: 1. A series of books by Julian May (Intervention, Metaconcert, Jack The Bodiless) are about the next phase in human evolution (viewed tru her eyes) where people have telekenisis, telepathy, and healing abilities (but they don't teleport - and most importantly for the plot, they CAN kill). The second book, Metaconcert, does a very interesting job in describing the prejudices faced by the Next Phase people (who I'll call TPs for short : ) - the homo sapiens (HS) are very upset, there are whole political parties in every country who are devoted to trying to keep TPs out of sensitive positions, nobel peace prizes are eventually awarded to those who try to make peace between TPs and HSs, Jerusalen gets destroyed by a nuclear bomb deployed by some religious fanatics who think that TPs are devils, and there's a lot of terrorism. On the flip side, of the TPs work very intetly to keep all the other TPs from gaining any power, and are willing to support HSs to that end. Laws in the Us are passed to keep TPs out of government office of any level, out of high positions with businesses and publicly funded universities (in the states, that means all of them - no school gets NO funding). In the book, it basically takes intervention by aliens AND a war that lasts for years to get everything moving in a positive direction again - and even that's not fully enough. 2. While I feel that the healing power is generally a good thing, mucking around with genetics is a VERY dangerous thing, and I don't care how smart the average TP is, I am not perfectly sure that removing all the genetic causes for various problems is a good thing to plan for or expect. How many of you have seen Gattaca? I can't even begin to imagine that a world full of TPs, who have all been genetically engineered - talk about an elimination of individuality! Yes, it's wonderful to say that all cancers or sickle cell anemias or morfin's syndrome (did I spell that right) which have genetic links should be eliminated either in utero or even before a child is concieved - wouldn't it be great to have a world with no illnesses like that? - but what extensive damage could that cause to the other genetic material that makes us humans (even the homo superior ones!) 3. Why does everyone presume that mike is a dolt? Is it the accent? I've never thought something like that - just that he may not've had the same kind of schooling as obviously-middle-class John, Carol & Stephen (and Andrew, for that matter). And the other thing that I've always just assumed is that for him, in his world of growing up, it may've been more important to be with the cool group - not be considered a swot by doing too much studying - you know, those kids in school who never had to study much, never talked about what kinds of grades they were getting, but always managed to have the best averages in class - and you wouldn't necessarily know this by talking to them. Darnit -I think I'll have to put all these assumptions together into a mike-focused fanfic - I've got too many running around in my brain, and that would be the best way to explain them - a fanfic from me! that'll be a first.... (stay tuned...) heidi howard tandy ...close your eyes, get so dizzy... Faster Than Light (Neil Finn) ...and praise will come to those whose kindness leaves you without debt and bends the shape of things to come that haven't happened yet... Ditto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heidi tandy Subject: One request - (was Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future Date: 25 Oct 1998 16:45:15 -0500 Jeff - can try to keep our personal political opinions off this list when they involve masked curse words - unless you want to put a PG-rating atop your post - there are, as we know kids of all ages on this list, and I don't want someone's parents' email filter causing them to miss emails. Do I sound like a paranoid ninny? probably, but I've seen what has happened on this list before when the over-18s/21s on the list have positive comments about adult pursuits (you know what they are!) and it's caused nothing but trouble for a few days. Plus, I don't want to get into a huge, nasty and potentially-damaging-to-our-opinions-of-each-other fight about exactly what certain republicans did and are doing regarding net issues, like domain names (and being a trademark attorney, I have some *very* particular views about that : ) At 03:50 PM 10/21/98 EDT, wrote: > Now there's a comforting thought: Never being able to shut Carol out of >your mind!! All that excessive whining!!!! :P OH, Calgon, take me away!! :) > Seriously, that is a nice thought. that would end the 'Net,as we'd have >no need for all this anonyminity. We'd know each other better,and could keep >all the sociopaths who never leave home and stay on here lurking away from us. >Better security I susupect. No more lies, hurting each other etc,etc. But >then I suspect that any of the Nazi's from the US GOVERNMENT would try to >control the TP's thoughts as they try to control ours now. Look at what's >happening to the net even now. Hillary [removed to avoid filters - HT] Clinton wants to control the net >herself. Not caring that the US would be interferring with the rights of >people from all over the world. I don't mean to ruin the illusion of a UNITED >world, full of peacable TP,but ya gotta break a few eggs to make an omlete. >Any thoughts about that? Any Fanfic ideas? :) Perhaps the world that Roboski >came from wasn't all it was cracked up to be? > > > > Jeff > > > heidi howard tandy ...close your eyes, get so dizzy... Faster Than Light (Neil Finn) ...and praise will come to those whose kindness leaves you without debt and bends the shape of things to come that haven't happened yet... Ditto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heidi tandy Subject: TPDIS: Only Jeff was supposed to recieve my ONE REQUEST post - Date: 25 Oct 1998 16:45:58 -0500 Thanks! heidi8@cris.com You're whistling without a care.... -Winter Haven High Roddy Frame You need no introduction to great works and bright lights -Rainy Greys and Blues Ditto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jen Sulzer" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 25 Oct 1998 16:53:01 -0500 -----Original Message----- (Geoff's message was re: mine about the "teething telepathic infant") >We're treading in *dangerous* waters here!!! You think that the government >should be able to control TPs' powers? So I'm 14, so maybe I should just have >telepathy? Or nothing at all, since I'm a minor?!? > Trying not to get steamed (and doing a pretty bad job of it!), > -Geoff You bring up a good point, Geoff--I hadn't thought of my message being taken that way. Of course, the gov't should not control anyone, and many young people are responsible enough to control any powers they develop. I didn't mean that minors shouldn't have any powers at all, just that those who cannot control their powers, or would use them recklessly, should be shielded for their own safety, as well as that of others. A child who developed telepathy and used it recklessly before he understood about ethics could cause a lot of problems, for example. Or, back to my original example of the teething telepath. Just imagine what a distraction that would be for those TPs who were trying to get any work done! I apologize, I didn't mean to offend anyone, Jen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heidi tandy Subject: Differences in a TP world (was Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking Date: 25 Oct 1998 17:09:28 -0500 At 04:53 PM 10/25/98 -0500, Jen Sulzer wrote: > back to my original example >of the teething telepath. Just imagine what a distraction that would be for >those TPs who were trying to get any work done! Jen- what an interesting thought this gave me! A big problem for women in the workforce with little kids is what to do while they are nursing - having teleportation abilities would eliminate any problem because the mom who was working outside of the home could pop home in a fraction of a second for "lunch" and stay in touch with the office, and be back to work in less time than someone would take for regular break these days. And all those problems about commuting would be eliminated completely - plus, no school busses, no problem getting the kids to their after school activities, no problem working 1000 miles from your family - you could still have dinner together every day. I've come up with a bunch of other things in our world that would be * very* different if TPs were the majority - does anyone have any others? but what would happen to the poor airline industry, and all those points people have been saving up? who'd use a frequent flyer credit card if you never had to fly anywhere again? Why would rock bands go on tour if all their fans could just come to one big concert at some pre-chosen location? Governing bodies like congress and parliament could meet every weekday because their members could get there in the blink of an eye AND be at home among their constituents every night. Part of the test to get your teaching certificate would be Can You Put Up A Screen Strong Enough to Prevent Your Students From Learning The Answers to A Test? People with strong empathy-telepathy would either make great doctors or terrible surgeons - can YOU imagine operating on someone while picking up EITHER all their pain or all their sedation? Long distance romances would no longer be a hinderance - but ever bathroom would have to have a screen preventing people from jaunting in (and a lot of bedrooms (and some offices)) would have to have the same protection as well. So would movie theaters and amusement parks and stores (sneaking into movies would be SO much easier, disney's revenues from park admission would *crash*, and those funky anti-shoplifting devices in stores would have to have tracers, so if one lifted something, the store would know exactly where you took it, so they could track you). And there's no concern about hyperspace getting as dirty as a junkyard, because everything dropped in there would eventually disintegrate. heidi howard tandy ...close your eyes, get so dizzy... Faster Than Light (Neil Finn) ...and praise will come to those whose kindness leaves you without debt and bends the shape of things to come that haven't happened yet... Ditto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Date: 26 Oct 1998 09:17:32 +1100 (EST) On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, heidi tandy wrote: > 3. Why does everyone presume that mike is a dolt? Is it the accent? I've > never thought something like that - just that he may not've had the same > kind of schooling as obviously-middle-class John, Carol & Stephen (and > Andrew, for that matter). And the other thing that I've always just assumed > is that for him, in his world of growing up, it may've been more important > to be with the cool group - not be considered a swot by doing too much > studying - you know, those kids in school who never had to study much, > never talked about what kinds of grades they were getting, but always > managed to have the best averages in class - and you wouldn't necessarily > know this by talking to them. Darnit -I think I'll have to put all these > assumptions together into a mike-focused fanfic - I've got too many running > around in my brain, and that would be the best way to explain them - a > fanfic from me! that'll be a first.... (stay tuned...) > heidi howard tandy As someone who is often accused of Mike bashing (I deny it!), here's my take on why Mike comes in for a fair amount of criticism. Mike is different from the other TP in quite a few ways. Some of those differences may have something to do with his background - but only in a peripheral sense. I don't think it's his accent or his background itself that opens him up to criticism but his actions. Mike got off to a bad start as far as the Tomorrow People are concerned. The first time we see him in 'One Law', he's involved in criminal activity. Now, it's not through choice that he is doing the things he is doing - he's being coerced into it by threats to Timmy the cat, and later by threats to his own family, but he still comes across as quite mercenary in his dealings with Lord Dunning and henchmen. He's also quite foolish, in my opinion, when he demonstrates his TK abilities to Two Tone and Slow - although, at his age, faced with the prospect of money, so would I have been. Of course, Mike's foollishness in showing off to Two Tone and Slow don't compare to a couple of the things Stephen did, but they still do show a lack of judgement IMHO. Then Mike makes things worse - his first forays into criminal activity occur under duress and we know it (even though the Tomorrow People don't). But then it appears to us (and the TP) that Mike has genuinely turned criminal - and this is strange. The TP seem highly moral people who would never get involved in criminal behaviour (except Tyso and poaching - and I don't think he sees that as criminal). They, themselves, seem to have a hard time even believing Mike could possibly be involved in criminal behaviour which suggests that the idea is quite alien to them. As it turns out, Mike's actions are motivated, not by criminal ideals, but by revenge and a desire for justice. But we don't get to see that for quite a while and I think it does cause some degree of prejudice towards Mike - although I think it's more that it makes him a convenient target for jokes, I don't think most people seriously feel he's a bad person. Mike tends to do the wrong thing quite often - in most cases, it is *not* his fault, but it's caused by something beyond his control - the 'rotten genes' that make him worship Hitler, or the bubbleskin jumpsuits, that cause him to defy John, or the Heart of Sogguth. But even though, these aren't things he can actually help, they still mean that he is the TP we most often see engaging in activities that are less than pure. Then there is his clothing - OK, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover but most of the Tomorrow People dress fairly conservatively (IMHO - I'm not an expert on '70s fashion), whereas Mike tends to take it to the edge. He tries to keep up with fashion - in "Hitler's Last Secret" and "The Living Skins" this desire for fashion actually directly helps to cause the problems they face. Mike looks different to the other Tomorrow People, he acts differently. He's less concerned with the future of mankind and more concerned with his own future as a pop star. This can make him appear irresponsible at times - preventing TIM from doing his important work by getting him to help with a pop song for example. Most of the Tomorrow People are very responsible - is Mike? I think he is, but he's less obvious about it. Mike isn't stupid - but he does lack judgement. He's overconfident and hat can be dangerous. In 'One Law' (based on the novel as well as the serial) he is so convinced that he can use TK to prevent a gun being fired that he puts his life at risk, only to discover he was wrong. In "The Dirtiest Business" his actions lead to the death of Pavla - he had the best of intentions, certainly, but by acting on his own and not letting John and Liz accomplish their aims, he wound up killing her. I think the root of my disatisfaction with Mike comes from his failure to work in a team - he's too independant, and the Tomorrow People seem to me to be the ultimate team - they work better together than apart. It takes Mike a long time to work out that he doesn't have to do things on his own, and that he can be helped by others. He also has the disadvantage that he is often taken over by outside evil factors - Hitler, Sogguth, the Ballboids - it's natural (though incorrect) for people to become cautious around him - perhaps they wonder if there is an inherent weakness in him that causes him to be prone to these attacks. It's similar to the prejudice that exists in our own world towards people with certain illnesses (depression, chronic fatigue syndrome, etc) where some people feel the presence of disease is an indicator of weak character, or the prejudice some people have that poverty is a sign of weak will. These are illogical prejudices but they do exist, and I just wonder if there is some prejudice towards Mike in the same way. Mike has many good points. He is courageous, loyal to what he considers important, and his independance does have good points - he does what needs to be done. But he isn't perfect. Most of the TP come in for criticism about a small part of their character - John, for his arrogance, Stephen, for his lack of sense on occasion, Carol, for her perception as being whiny, etc. But that doesn't mean anyone is saying they are a bad person as a whole - far from it. IMHO, the fact that the TP aren't perfect is a strength. Dreadnought ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Date: 25 Oct 1998 19:03:58 EST In a message dated 98-10-25 17:17:55 EST, you write: > TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Yes! I really don't like Mike. He does the dumbest things and the worst times! Ducking Mike-Lovers, -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 25 Oct 1998 19:12:45 EST the problem is, who decides who understands ethics, etc.? We could have some psychos deciding that (like certain teachers at a certain school decide things ;) I wasn't offended, I just need more sleep =) Sleep, that sounds so nice...zzzzzz... -Geoffzzzzzzzzz In a message dated 98-10-25 16:53:44 EST, you write: > You bring up a good point, Geoff--I hadn't thought of my message being taken > that way. Of course, the gov't should not control anyone, and many young > people are responsible enough to control any powers they develop. I didn't > mean that minors shouldn't have any powers at all, just that those who > cannot control their powers, or would use them recklessly, should be > shielded for their own safety, as well as that of others. A child who > developed telepathy and used it recklessly before he understood about ethics > could cause a lot of problems, for example. Or, back to my original example > of the teething telepath. Just imagine what a distraction that would be for > those TPs who were trying to get any work done! > I apologize, I didn't mean to > offend anyone, > Jen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: RE: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... & a little more Date: 26 Oct 1998 11:40:26 +1100 (EST) On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, heidi tandy wrote: > On the issue of how saps & TPs would live together, I've got a bunch of > comments: > 1. A series of books by Julian May (Intervention, Metaconcert, Jack The > Bodiless) are about the next phase in human evolution (viewed tru her eyes) > where people have telekenisis, telepathy, and healing abilities (but they > don't teleport - and most importantly for the plot, they CAN kill). The > second book, Metaconcert, does a very interesting job in describing the > prejudices faced by the Next Phase people (who I'll call TPs for short : ) > - the homo sapiens (HS) are very upset, there are whole political parties > in every country who are devoted to trying to keep TPs out of sensitive > positions, nobel peace prizes are eventually awarded to those who try to > make peace between TPs and HSs, Jerusalen gets destroyed by a nuclear bomb > deployed by some religious fanatics who think that TPs are devils, and > there's a lot of terrorism. On the flip side, of the TPs work very intetly > to keep all the other TPs from gaining any power, and are willing to > support HSs to that end. Laws in the Us are passed to keep TPs out of > government office of any level, out of high positions with businesses and > publicly funded universities (in the states, that means all of them - no > school gets NO funding). In the book, it basically takes intervention by > aliens AND a war that lasts for years to get everything moving in a > positive direction again - and even that's not fully enough. Bear in mind that the Homo superior (and they do use that term) of May's books aren't anywhere near as 'good' as the Tomorrow People - they can get engaged in some pretty evil actvities (you mention they can kill, but some get involved in *seriously* nasty stuff which I know you mention, but I'm not sure someone who hadn't read the books will realise - those people who have a problem with the 're-education' of "The Doomsday Men" will have serious problems with some of the things advocated in 'The Galactic Mileu' Trilogy). Many of the Homo superiors of that series are highly moral beings but, in many cases, the Homo sapiens are totally justified in being scared. It's an excellent series (and in some ways, a much more potentially accurate portrayal than the Tomorrow People IMHO) but there are important differences. We also have the fact that in that series, we know Homo superior is, itself, only an interim step - doomed to one day be superseded itself by a still more advanced form of man. > 2. While I feel that the healing power is generally a good thing, mucking > around with genetics is a VERY dangerous thing, and I don't care how smart > the average TP is, I am not perfectly sure that removing all the genetic > causes for various problems is a good thing to plan for or expect. How many > of you have seen Gattaca? I can't even begin to imagine that a world full > of TPs, who have all been genetically engineered - talk about an > elimination of individuality! Yes, it's wonderful to say that all cancers > or sickle cell anemias or morfin's syndrome (did I spell that right) which > have genetic links should be eliminated either in utero or even before a > child is concieved - wouldn't it be great to have a world with no illnesses > like that? - but what extensive damage could that cause to the other > genetic material that makes us humans (even the homo superior ones!) Potentially quite a lot - but it's also potentially possible that the conditions could be removed without problems. And with the advanced technology and science available to the Tomorrow People through the Federation, it seems very possible that genetic engineering may be able to be undertaken with no potential ill-effects. It is important to ensure that individuality remains - but there are some things that are clearly defects and, if possible, should be eliminated (all MHO, naturally). The trick is deciding when something is a defect and when it isn't. Gattaca wasn't about engineered defects and their removal - at least not really, IMHO. It was about what might happen in a society where genetics became the sole determinant of a persons potential and nothing else was considered except a persons genetic profile. This is a real fear with insurance companies, etc, already investigating ideas such as genetic testing to determine risks - but here the concern is with a potential misuse of the technology not the technology itself. Technology is not good or bad - it simply is. All technologies have potential positive and negative uses. It's my belief that discussing the problems caused by a technology before that technology becomes widely used is often pointless - it may stop the grossest misuse of that technology but the smaller problems will still occur. The same applies to natural changes. What does this mean for the Tomorrow People and the future of Earth? To me, it suggests that no matter how careful the Tomorrow People are to avoid discrimination against the Saps, that discrimination will still occur - it may be dealt with, but only after it has been noted as occurring. And some discrimination may even be justified - if you have a terrorist threat to a building where someone has threatened to bring in a bomb to kill people, is there any point searching TPs? Their nature means they cannot be involved in an act that would kill - whereas the Saps could be. That's one example where an act of discrimination may seem totally justified even to people normally opposed to it. Even if there is no discrimination, growing up a Sap in a world of Tomorrow People would be hard - you know you are doomed, you know that you have been superseded. Dreadnought ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffl1965@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Only Jeff was supposed to recieve my ONE REQUEST post - everyone e... Date: 25 Oct 1998 20:23:51 EST In a message dated 98-10-25 16:49:09 EST, you write: <> LOL Glad to see that I'm not the only one having problems with e-mail software/servers.:) I sent a personal reply that also whas posted here complete with the deleted selections that were re-inserted at the bottom of my new message.:) Ah, modern technology.:) BTW I agree. I forget that we do have teenies here,and VERY sensitive ones at that,if I am reading some statements by a certain few.:) But I still stand by what I said about the Feds.:) They still make me blow chunks.:) '' Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans...." John Lennon (Oct. 9, 1940-Dec.8,1980) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Date: 25 Oct 1998 22:01:46 -0600 > Then there is his clothing - OK, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover I'm just gonna add to what Shaun said that the open shirts do get a little... out of line. I have to keep repeating to myself that the "slimebag" image of people dressed like that comes from '80's sitcoms and movies, and at the time, it wasn't quite as unacceptable. (It's more frighteing when John does it, though.:) > In "The Dirtiest > Business" his actions lead to the death of Pavla - he had the best of > intentions, certainly, but by acting on his own and not letting John and > Liz accomplish their aims, he wound up killing her. I'm not saying Mike should've done what he did, or that he shouldn't have trusted John, but John, knowing that Mike has trouble trusting people, even him, should've explained to Mike what he had in mind! It might've helped. >It takes > Mike a long time to work out that he doesn't have to do things on his > own, and that he can be helped by others. His background. Which is gonna jump up and get him one of these days-- if I can ever get these silly profs at the U to give me two seconds. That and Colin Mallory and the crew of the Deepwater to quit shoving the TP out of the way. (Not to mention original characters who want a say too!!) > Mike has many good points. He is courageous, loyal to what he considers > important, and his independance does have good points - he does what > needs to be done. But he isn't perfect. Real characters are never perfect. In some ways, Mike is more real than John. I think part of the reason he gets picked on more, however, is his hairbrained schemes. I think he holds the single character record for getting the idiot award for an episode. (Long story, ask Maria, she has more time.:) tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: Differences in a TP world (was Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at Date: 25 Oct 1998 22:01:43 -0600 Responding to the message of <3.0.1.32.19981025170928.00a445a0@pop3.concentric.net> from tpdis@lists.xmission.com: > And all those problems about commuting would be eliminated completely - Apparently, I'm not the only one wishing I could avoid the commute by jaunting. :) (I just hope it waits awhile longer before it gets too cold to bike.) > plus, no school busses, Um, break out around 13, remember? Unless, of course, New series. ;) > no problem getting the kids to their after school > activities, See above. > I've come up with a bunch of other things in our world that would be * > very* different if TPs were the majority - does anyone have any others? How much longer would the 'net be around? > but what would happen to the poor airline industry We'd need people for other stuff, they'd be reemployed. :) > Why would rock bands go on tour if all > their fans could just come to one big concert at some pre-chosen location? 1) Not enough good seats. 2) Large crowds at rock concerts, even TP ones, are asking for trouble. While TP's are unlikely to start a riot, there'd still be... well... what about for the *really big* bands. One stadium wouldn't fit everyone who'd want to go. Talk about skyrocketing ticket prices! (supply and demand) Part of the test to get your > teaching certificate would be Can You Put Up A Screen Strong Enough to > Prevent Your Students From Learning The Answers to A Test? > So would movie theaters and > amusement parks and stores (sneaking into movies would be SO much easier, Am I the only one on this list who thinks that TP would, in general, be more moral than this? *sighs* Have some FAITH people. Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... & a little more Date: 25 Oct 1998 22:01:49 -0600 Responding to the message of from tpdis@lists.xmission.com: > Gattaca wasn't about engineered defects and their removal - at least not > really, IMHO. It was about what might happen in a society where genetics > became the sole determinant of a persons potential and nothing else was > considered except a persons genetic profile. This is a real fear with > insurance companies, etc, already investigating ideas such as genetic > testing to determine risks - but here the concern is with a potential > misuse of the technology not the technology itself. Yes, you see, it's not the geneticists who are evil, it's the coporate dorks stealing our data! :) So ask yourself this: are the TP's going to take it to this extreme? Are they evil? If you answered yes, have we been watching the same show??? (BTW, GATTACA gets major kudos for the science never making me fall over laughing. No SF on TV has managed that record.) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... & a little more Date: 26 Oct 1998 20:48:01 +1100 > From: Beth Epstein > > Yes, you see, it's not the geneticists who are evil, it's the coporate dorks > stealing our data! :) But you would say that - wouldn't you? (-8 > So ask yourself this: are the TP's going to take it > to this extreme? Are they evil? If you answered yes, have we been > watching the same show??? Well, honestly I think they might. It seems to me that John would certainly approve of the removal of Mike's 'rotten gene' in "Hitler's Last Secret" if that was possible - which seems to me to indicate he has a firm belief in the idea that genetic identification of particular traits might be a good idea - and if a gene couldn't be modified, neutralised, or removed, it might seem logical to deny people with that gene access to jobs etc where the gene might cause a problem - indeed John seeks to do this on a small scale in HLS when he tells Mike to remain in the Lab after it becomes clear that he does have a genetic predisposition to worship Hitler. I certainly think Tricia might have been able to - she was able to (to an extent) oppose her nature by working for the Government - apparently in the belief that she was working towards some 'greater good.' I don't think a Tomorrow Person (at least any we have seen) would engage in any activity they believed was wrong - but if they felt it was justified by some higher ideal, they might well do so. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Date: 26 Oct 1998 20:54:34 +1100 > From: Beth Epstein > > > In "The Dirtiest > > Business" his actions lead to the death of Pavla - he had the best of > > intentions, certainly, but by acting on his own and not letting John and > > Liz accomplish their aims, he wound up killing her. > I'm not saying Mike should've done what he did, or that he shouldn't have > trusted John, but John, knowing that Mike has trouble trusting people, > even him, should've explained to Mike what he had in mind! It might've > helped. Agreed - it just shows that John isn't perfect either. Tragedy could have been averted if John had told him what he and Liz were working towards. And I've now thought of an example where Mike's independence and diobeying John actually pays off (I knew there was one) - his action in leaving the Lab, stunning the others and then stunning Hitler so his true form is revealed in "Hitler's Last Secret." His independence isn't always a bad thing. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: Re: Differences in a TP world (was Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history...) Date: 26 Oct 1998 10:56:50 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, heidi tandy wrote: Heidi brings up some great points... but take it a little bit farther.. (I'll use her examples 'cause there good) 1) Why do tp's even need 'an office' - A common meeting place and maybe a document retrial center (tim) but with jaunting and telepathy two people sitting in ther own homes are as close as two saps sitting in two cubicles >Jen- what an interesting thought this gave me! A big problem for women in > the workforce with little kids is what to do while they are nursing - >having teleportation abilities would eliminate any problem because the mom >who was working outside of the home could pop home in a fraction of a >second for "lunch" and stay in 2) Airline industry wooff... what about phone companies, cars, manaufactures of any kind... the list is HUGE... if every tp has access to tim no one needs to actually build anything... > Long distance romances would no longer be a hinderance 3) Who would need movies (oh no.. I'm out of a Job!)... one person with a 'vision' of a movie could broadcast it directly into others minds... remeber the 're-education' scene in The Doomsday Men... Much more realistic than DOLBY DIGITAL! >So would movie theaters and > amusement parks and stores (sneaking into >movies would be SO much easier, > disney's revenues from park admission would *crash*, and those funky > 4) Why shoplift at all??? "Tim, can you make me up a 5 carat diamond ring?" "Certainly Scott... What kind..." Who would need to steal!.. Having only TP's around would bring the crime rate way down! >anti-shoplifting devices in stores would have to have tracers, so if on >lifted something, the store would know exactly where you took it, so they > could track you). 5) Why hyperspace..just matter transport right to the surface of the sun...or to Mercury (Like they tried with Jedikiah!) > And there's no concern about hyperspace getting as dirty > as ajunkyard, because everything dropped in there would THE PROCEDING PROGRAM HAS BEEN AN INSANE LOOK AT THE FUTURE... Obvioulsy..I had a little fun, but some interesting points were raised... What DO a whole society of TP's do with themsevles...once there are no more saps left what do you do? Theres no need for money... mere survival is assured (almost) I guess you you just watch the Thargons & the Saursens (sp!) fight it out... Thats probably the reason the Trig is as bueacratic as it is... There really isn't anything else for full TP races to do, Is there? ScottG... "Where are we going?"... PLANET TEN "When?"... REAL SOON Bukaroo Banzi (Sorry, it was on this weekend!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 27 Oct 1998 07:55:35 +1300 (NZDT) After reading Shauns detailed post I had a thought (these things do happen :) ) If the human population were getting out of hand could the Tp's introduce some sort of chemical sterilization effectively wiping out future generations of homo saps? Theoretically it isn't killing anyone even though it is definitely genocide. Morally I think it is a horrible idea but does it conflict with their inability to kill? Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Date: 26 Oct 1998 06:19:57 -0800 Shaun Hately wrote: > And I've now thought of an example where Mike's independence and diobeying > John actually pays off (I knew there was one) - his action in leaving the > Lab, stunning the others and then stunning Hitler so his true form is > revealed in "Hitler's Last Secret." > > His independence isn't always a bad thing. Yes, but that was a gamble. It may or may not have worked, and Mike didn't really know. It was irresponsible. And we don't know whether or not things would have worked out if John and Liz had been left to their own accord - they seem to be perfectly capable of handling things without Mike's shenanigans. Maybe his independence isn't a bad thing, but Mike is! *evil grin* -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People Saylormars@geocities.com IRC 9737939 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: TPDIS: Michael Holloway Date: 27 Oct 1998 11:37:27 +1100 I just got sent the following URL - some of you may have also received it. It contains a semi-biography of Michael Holloway - it does mention the Tomorrow People. It also contains a link to which has a review of what may be a current CD (I can't tell) that he features in. http://www.jayrecords.com/Perf/mikeh.htm Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@alphalink.com.au | http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html ICQ: 6898200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ariana Brill Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... Date: 26 Oct 1998 17:39:56 -0800 Michael Edmonds wrote: > After reading Shauns detailed post I had a thought (these things do happen > :) ) > If the human population were getting out of hand could the Tp's introduce > some sort of chemical sterilization effectively wiping out future > generations of homo saps? Theoretically it isn't killing anyone even > though it is definitely genocide. > Morally I think it is a horrible idea but does it conflict with their > inability to kill? If the saps were really causing the TP severe problems, I think I could see them doing something similar to this to save themselves. If it was their only option to remain alive, I don't think it's morally worse than any of the other questionable things we've seen individual TP (*coughMIKEcough*) do. -- (~.~) Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" -Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People Saylormars@geocities.com IRC 9737939 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tplight@juno.com (As if the last of days were fading and all the wars were done) Subject: Re: TPDIS: fanfic question Date: 26 Oct 1998 20:56:04 -0600 On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:31:18 -0800 Ariana Brill writes: >This is kind of an odd question, but what social situation do you think Jade would >find most distressing? Being put in front of a large group of people for any reason and not being able to get out. Or being asked to do something she can't do, or having large crowds call her name. It would terrify her! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A new way of looking at future history... & a little more Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:09:37 -0600 Shaun wrote: > > From: Beth Epstein > > > > Yes, you see, it's not the geneticists who are evil, it's the coporate > dorks > > stealing our data! :) > > But you would say that - wouldn't you? (-8 :p > > So ask yourself this: are the TP's going to take it > > to this extreme? Are they evil? If you answered yes, have we been > > watching the same show??? > > indeed John seeks to do this on a small > scale in HLS when he tells Mike to remain in the Lab after it becomes clear > that he does have a genetic predisposition to worship Hitler. The "slippery slope" hypothesis? Most genes don't cause people to go catatonic, start chanting "Heil Hitler" and >I certainly > think Tricia might have been able to - she was able to (to an extent) > oppose her nature by working for the Government - apparently in the belief > that she was working towards some 'greater good.' ??? Ok, so it's not cannon, but since Roger never gave us a good reason for Tricia to be in the army, I like Analgesia as an explanation. Anything to get the guy to leave her alone. And after all, you just can't tell the army "I've changed my mind." :) Tigger (bouncing Shaun's own fanfic back in his face.:) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth Epstein" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:09:40 -0600 Shaun wrote: > And I've now thought of an example where Mike's independence and diobeying > John actually pays off (I knew there was one) - his action in leaving the > Lab, stunning the others and then stunning Hitler so his true form is > revealed in "Hitler's Last Secret." > > His independence isn't always a bad thing. Also taking off in the airplane trying to find Hsui Tai. She'd have been killed if he hadn't. (This is a bad thing! Honest it is! I get to have lots of fun with her in fanfic!:) He's just plain lucky that way. Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Date: 27 Oct 1998 02:05:21 CST >> I'm not saying Mike should've done what he did, or that he shouldn't have > >> trusted John, but John, knowing that Mike has trouble trusting people, >> even him, should've explained to Mike what he had in mind! It might've >> helped. > >Agreed - it just shows that John isn't perfect either. Tragedy could have >been averted if John had told him what he and Liz were working towards. One time (at least) where Mike's teamwork problem was enhanced by the team leaving him out of the loop. >And I've now thought of an example where Mike's independence and diobeying >John actually pays off (I knew there was one) - his action in leaving the >Lab, stunning the others and then stunning Hitler so his true form is >revealed in "Hitler's Last Secret." > >His independence isn't always a bad thing. Ah, cut it out before I start liking the guy. Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Mike, a dolt? Date: 27 Oct 1998 18:07:57 EST In a message dated 98-10-26 22:10:05 EST, you write: > Also taking off in the airplane trying to find Hsui Tai. She'd have been > killed > if he hadn't. So? Hsui Tai is a little too submissive, I think. She's like Kasumi in "Ranma 1/2", but dumber! "Oh dear..." "Oh my..." "Bye bye birrrrrdie!!!" >(This is a bad thing! Honest it is! I get to have lots of > fun > with her in fanfic!:) -Geoff Kasumi to evil Pheonix who's flying away: Bye byyyyeee birrrdieee! Nabiki (her sister): *Please* stop that. Kasumi:Bye byyye birrrrdie! Nabiki (with a great expression starts waving): okay sis.. you win... Kasumi: Bye byyyeeeee birrrrrdieeee! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Hillsdon" Subject: TPDIS: Return of TP in Australia Date: 28 Oct 1998 18:05:11 +1100 I dont know if anyone is interested but I notice that in November on Foxtel that TP is returning to Fox Kids. It looks like from what I can work out that it is the new series. If anyone has more information then let me know. Warren ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachael Bailey" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Return of TP in Australia Date: 28 Oct 1998 03:00:20 PST >I dont know if anyone is interested but I notice that in November on Foxtel >that TP is returning to Fox Kids. It looks like from what I can work out >that it is the new series. > >If anyone has more information then let me know. oh great now i'm gunna spend my uni holidays running around trying to find a new friend who has foxtel :) Rachael with an A ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amy Bridger Subject: Re: TPDIS: Return of TP in Australia Date: 28 Oct 1998 21:07:06 +1000 At 03:00 AM 28/10/98 PST, you wrote: > > >>I dont know if anyone is interested but I notice that in November on >Foxtel >>that TP is returning to Fox Kids. It looks like from what I can work >out >>that it is the new series. >> >>If anyone has more information then let me know. I wonder if foxtel is available in my new area.. I'm moving soon and already wanted cable but now I have a good reason to beg my parents for it :) >oh great now i'm gunna spend my uni holidays running around trying to >find a new friend who has foxtel :) *grins* You get holidays? I think I get a week off over Christmas and thats it. -- Amy Bridger (ami@full-moon.com) I am in Brisbane Warning on Borg Starter Kit: Some assimilation required. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: TPDIS: Return of TP in Australia Date: 29 Oct 1998 08:46:32 +1100 (EST) On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Warren Hillsdon wrote: > I dont know if anyone is interested but I notice that in November on Foxtel > that TP is returning to Fox Kids. It looks like from what I can work out > that it is the new series. I'd suspect it is the new series except for one problem - the ABC still seems to think it has the sole broadcast rights for Australia and still lists it as part of their lineup. I'd still say it has to be the new series though as the Original Series contains episodes that now require a PG rating to be shown (in some cases possibly an M) and I doubt it would be very attractive to Fox Kids under those circumstances. Although - according to the Foxtel website, it's actually not going to be on Fox Kids, but rather Fox Soap and does seem to be PG rated. If that is the case and their website is correct, perhaps it is the old series. I just wish I had Foxtel (-8 Dreadnought ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Romana3@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Return of TP in Australia Date: 29 Oct 1998 19:12:25 EST In a message dated 10/28/98 7:07:37 am, you wrote: < > >>I dont know if anyone is interested but I notice that in November on >Foxtel >>that TP is returning to Fox Kids. It looks like from what I can work >out >>that it is the new series. >> >>If anyone has more information then let me know. I wonder if foxtel is available in my new area.. I'm moving soon and already wanted cable but now I have a good reason to beg my parents for it :) >oh great now i'm gunna spend my uni holidays running around trying to >find a new friend who has foxtel :) *grins* You get holidays? I think I get a week off over Christmas and thats it. -- Amy Bridger (ami@full-moon.com) I am in Brisbane Warning on Borg Starter Kit: Some assimilation required. >> Wow! TP is comming back! Now only if it would come to the US again.. If any one hears any thing please tell me! Oh and BTW, what is that web sight that you all were talking about? I don't remember who said something about it, but i would really like to know more about it. Kristin "And then Romana said what every one else was thinking. 'So Doctor, Where to next?'" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KenichiX9@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Return of TP in Australia Date: 29 Oct 1998 20:26:32 EST > I dont know if anyone is interested but I notice that in November on >Foxtel >that TP is returning to Fox Kids. It looks like from what I can work >out >that it is the new series. Is there any chance that this isn't limited to Austrilia, or is everything totally different? :::grins hopefully::: -Nicole