From: Scott Bergeson Subject: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory Date: 01 Jun 2001 16:14:42 -0600 I've gathered some on this list consider the NRA rabidly uncompromising in defense of unfettered Right to Keep and Bear Arms. That isn't so, as this editorial indicates, as well as GOA's concomitant decline. Scott Bergeson ----- FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED MAY 27, 2001 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz EDITORS: A SHORTER, 900-WORD VERSION OF THIS COLUMN ALSO MOVES Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory One way America's mainstream media reveal their rabid anti-self-defense prejudice is through their insistence on characterizing the National Rifle Association as a wild-eyed group of no-compromise, gun-rights extremists. Nothing could be further from the truth. The NRA endorsed the original federal handgun control bill of the 1930s; the 1968 Gun Control Act; and the Brady Bill with its waiting periods and now its so-called "instant check" national gun registration (for long guns as well as revolvers.) NRA executives seem happy so long as they continue to collect dues and contributions from the outfit's reported 4 million dull-witted members, who apparently never tire of the siren song, "We got you a better compromise than if we hadn't been here; we only bargained away a /few/ more of your rights this year; just keep voting for the same smiling Republican traitors so they'll let us into their offices to 'compromise' with them again next year; here's your 'Voters' Guide.'" "The politicians want the NRA, they can cut their deals with the NRA," explained gun rights activist Dennis Fusaro this week, phoning in from Northern Virginia. "The NRA has supported gun control since 1871, they admit it, I've got the 1968 issue of the Rifleman where [NRA] Vice President Ort is quoted saying that; the organization has never been about 'rights.' They were started by a bunch of darned Yankee generals who were pissed off that the Johnny Rebs shot their pants off in the Big War, it was all about improving marksmanship among the recruits so the army of the centralized state could keep its hobnailed boot on the throat of the people." Until March 16, Dennis Fusaro worked for the NRA's chief competitor in the field of Washington gun-rights lobbying, the 300,000-member Gun Owners of America, training local activists to lobby against further restrictions on the Second Amendment at the state level. He appears to have done his job too well. "The professionals at the NRA absolutely hate it when a bunch of people start coming to the Legislature and telling the politicians what they want and don't want, because it just makes an awful mess -- the politicians can't figure out whom they can cut a deal with. "Compromise is the way politicians like to play the game; you get the lobbyists in a room and everybody shakes hands on a compromise and the lobbyists go home and tell the grassroots to vote for this guy because we can work with him. A few more rights get sold down the river and everybody goes home happy and gets re-elected. In Utah (GOA local lobbyist) Sarah Thompson had worked to get through a good bill that would have honored concealed-carry permits from any other state without restriction." In the final days of the session, however, NRA lobbyist Brian Judy arrived in Salt Lake and made a deal to accept an amendment that the out-of-state permits would only be honored for 60 days. "They purposely kept Sarah out; he comes out like a knight on a white horse. Sarah had the senators pretty well under control and was pushing them with grassroots pressure, and then Brian Judy goes in the back room and accepts this bad amendment." GOA consultant Mike Rothfeld, who had worked with Fusaro since 1994 training the state-level activists, and who parted company with GOA within hours of Fusaro's dismissal, confirms the tale: "This year he cut Sarah off at the knees with a last-minute deal to undo a recognition bill she had drafted, caused to be introduced, and shepherded through the House. He blamed Sarah for making legislators 'angry.' As opposed to the old NRA game of "Let's Make a Deal," the way Fusaro says he was training GOA's local activists to hold the feet of anti-Bill-of-Rights politicians to the fire "was to tell them, 'Do what you have to do, but you know where we stand. If you vote any way but for our gun rights, we will work against you in the next election; we will rate you with an "F"; we will run people against you; we will get all the gun owners to vote against you; we will defeat you.' Politicians respond to anyone who makes their lives miserable; if they can count on your being their friend no matter what they do, they're going to start cozying up to Sarah Brady." Fusaro says it was precisely his budding success with these tactics in 20-plus states -- "a decentralized movement that couldn't be controlled; if the head went bad it couldn't poison the whole body ..." that finally led the GOA board of directors to attempt to pull in the reins on such effective lobbying, and -- when that didn't work -- to fire him. "The local pols tell the lobbyists, 'Can't you control your people?' And what's more important to the [professional] lobbyists is to have these relationships with these politicians rather than saving your rights. And I said that, and for saying that I had to go." "We're just as opposed to Project Exile as we've always been," responds GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt, Fusaro's former boss. "We're just as opposed to the instant background check as we've always been; it just isn't true that we're going to be any softer on these issues. "There were some personality differences" that led to the removal of Fusaro and consultant Rothfeld, Pratt insists. "It's a shame" that Fusaro had "a personality difference with the chairman of the board," 73-year-old GOA founder and former California state Sen. H.L. "Bill" Richardson. "If it had just been a personality difference that'd be great," Fusaro responds, "but if it was just a personality difference, why did [GOA] board members come out and say we can't lose the Republican majority in 2002; we have to get Bush re-elected? If that's our primary objective then what can Bush and the Republicans in Congress do to us, or fail to do /for/ us? Why should they feel obliged to do anything for gun owners?" It's the larger NRA which cynics have long described as the "Gun Owners' Auxiliary to the Republican Party," of course, since the nation's largest gun control organization will often award its "A" or "B" rating to GOP turncoats who have voted for half the gun control laws to come down the pike, endorsing them over Libertarians or other third party candidates who vow to repeal every gun law on the books. Why? Because the third party candidate "can't win," of course, and the NRA lobbyist's real game is to "retain access" to the GOP incumbent after helping him win re-election. Why insist on the plain language of the Second Amendment ("shall not be infringed") if the end result is fewer cocktail party invitations next year? That could make your organization appear "out of the mainstream." "Richardson doesn't want GOA people criticizing the NRA," Fusaro explains. "Richardson yelled at me over the phone, he said they have wonderful relations with the NRA in California; we can't have this public disunity" among the supposed gun rights' groups. "Well, hell, let's look at California," which has some of the most onerous victim disarmament laws in the country. "Let's take the direct shuttle to the death camps, and not mess around on these winding train tracks. They don't do anything in California, they've been going to hell for 10 years. That's why I came to work for GOA a decade ago," Fusaro concludes, "because I wanted someone who'd let me fight. "What Richardson wants most, in my opinion, is to be part of that respectable conservative Republican establishment, and if that's what you want then they own you. You have to show them you're willing to break up the country club, you're willing to be thrown out, you're willing to be thrown into the briar patch." Insiders tell me there may indeed be a drop in GOA lobbying at the state legislative level this election cycle, though they place the primary blame on a shortfall in fund-raising -- one that's apparently affecting most conservative organizations since the Bush election. When it comes to conservative causes, "People are figuring with George Bush elected we've all died and gone to heaven," sighed one frustrated, inside-the-Beltway fund-raiser this week. Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Subscribe to his monthly newsletter by sending $72 to Privacy Alert, 1475 Terminal Way, Suite E for Easy, Reno, NV 89502 -- or dialing 775-348-8591. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available at 1-800-244-2224, or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right." -- Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926) "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Seeking union members who supports paycheck protection Date: 04 Jun 2001 15:56:37 -0400 (EDT) As you may recall, paycheck protection was supported by grass-roots pro-RKBA organizations as removing taxpayer funded advantages of public employee unions in lobbying against our rights. If you or someone you know is a member of public employee union and you or they support paycheck protection, please see the info below and respond to Mr. Solomon. ------Original Message------ The UEA, UPEA and other public employees unions are going to file suit against HB179 which requires these unions to have members opt-in to donating to their PACs by writing a check rather than spending government money to subsidize automatically deducting their payroll for the donation. We are currently looking for people who are members of these unions (ie. teachers, etc.) who would be willing to state that the don't believe this bill/law takes away any Constitutional rights to donate their money to a PAC. Please get the word out and have anyone that is willing to do this, who might belong to one of these unions contact me at the following e-mail address and leave their name and contact information and we'll get in touch with them. E-mail address: jksolomon01@yahoo.com Thanks, John. ===== "The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the republican model of government, are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finally staked, on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people." --George Washington - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: FOLLOW-UP: Re: Garage thefts Date: 04 Jun 2001 16:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Good news on the garage door situation. Further investigation has revealed that access to my friend's garage was probably NOT gained by defeating the rolling code remote technology. However, my thanks to Neil Sagers for pursuing the issue with Genie and getting the following information. It is well worth remembering especially anytime service personnel or others you don't necessarily trust fully have access to your garage. On some models a person only needs about 5 seconds of access to the wired control console (usually mounted near the door leading from the garage to the home) in order to add another remote to your opener. They will then have unlimited access to your garage until you clear out the opener memory (this usually requires access to the opener moter housing itself) and reprogram only your own remotes. This is probably a good practice to follow on some periodic basis (once a year?) and certainly immediately after moving into a new home (whether it be new construction or previously owned) or after having service personnel in the home for any extended length of time. It only took me about 5 minutes (including retrieving the remotes) to do this for two garage doors, each of which has 3 different remotes that control it. If you have a keyless coded remote mounted on your exterior garage wall, you will probably need a second set of hands to help you reprogram it after you clear out the memory--unless you want to un-mount it. Instructions below and at the listed web site are for Genie. Instructions for Craftsman are very similar, check your owner's manual for specifics on clearing the memory (I've not seen anyway to remove a single remote) and then reprogramming those remotes you are using. Finally, consider the access that garage remote in your car gives to your house. I make a habit of removing the remote from the car anytime I leave the car for service (just as I don't leave any house keys on the keyring) or park it at an airport for an extended period of time. ------Original Message------ I was very interested in the e-mail on garage theft as I have the Genie Intellicode openers on my garage doors. I forwarded the e-mail to Genie and their response is below: ============== As distributors for Genie we have found the Intellicode system or any code rotating system for that matter, almost impossible to defeat. You see, since the remotes change frequency every time they are used, it is impossible to duplicate their codes. However, such a theft points to only one possibility: The intruder must have programmed his remote to your friend's machine prior to the theft. All the thief needed was to access the garage opener for just a few seconds to program his remote prior to the theft, perhaps your friend left the door open, forgot to close it or maybe had service people at his/her house that could have accessed that machine, it is also possible that the previous owners had a remote that was still coded to that machine... At any rate, your friend must now delete the machine's memory and reprogram only his existing remotes. This must be done because the thief can access the garage at will right now. To do that, locate the "learn" button and depress it for about 10-20 seconds until the small LED light next to it turns OFF. At that point, the receiver's memory will be deleted and no remotes will be able to open the machine, your friend will have to reprogram his xisting remotes to the machine using the following instructions: http://www.genie-garage-opener.com/git-instructions.html Let us know if we can be of further assistance. The Tech Help Team Marwest Access Controls, Inc. www.aaaremotes.com www.genie-garage-opener.com www.stanley-garage-opener.com 800-849-3998 Toll Free 818-892-5592 International 818-892-0435 Fax 9am-5pm M-F, 9am-1pm Sat. Pacific Time (GMT-8hrs) >>> utbagpiper@juno.com 05/30/01 04:16PM >>> Forgive me for an off-topic post, but this may be of interest to you if you have an electric garage door opener. I just visited with a friend of mine here in Sandy. He went home for lunch today and discovered his garage door up and his $500.00 Honda lawn mower missing. A neighborhood girl saw a "scary man," bald on top, tall, driving a red truck with a red shell drive up, put the door up, and load up the lawn mower. It seems the thief used some kind of transmitter to open the door. A police report has been filed, but obviously, trying to recover a lawn mower is tough. My friend has a 6 month old, Genie, screw drive door opener with the "Intellicode" rolling code remotes. Until now, I had assumed that such openers were highly resistant to being opened with a remote other than one the owner specifically programmed to open it. Obviously, such a theft takes only a moment and I know of no way to prevent it short of unplugging the electric opener and going back to manual key locks on the doors--an option most of us would loathe. But at least when you are going to be away for a protracted period of time (vacation, etc) you might want to consider unplugging or otherwise disabling the openers on your garage doors. Also bear in mind the possibility of such a theft if you think you hear your garage door going up when it really shouldn't do so. You might also want to consider how good the locks are between the gargage and your home and whether you use them as frequently as you should. You may also want to consider if various items currently stored in the garage would not be safer in an attic, basement, or locked tool shed. Just thinking out loud here. If anyone has any info or advice on increasing security of garages without sacrificing the convenience (and safety) of electric openers, I'd love to hear about it. Charles. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: America's Largets Gun Control Organization Date: 05 Jun 2001 17:19:39 -0400 (EDT) COLUMN: Vin Suprynowicz America's largest gun control organization On Jan. 16, 1968, in an address to the New York State University law school in Buffalo, Sen. Robert Kennedy, D-N.Y., stated: "I think it is a terrible indictment of the National Rifle Association that they haven't supported any legislation to try and control the misuse of rifles and pistols in this country." NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth took great umbrage at this remark in the October 1968 issue of the NRA's magazine, The American Rifleman, terming Sen. Kennedy's accusation "a great smear of a great American organization." Mr. Orth then went on to point out, "The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871." Really? But the NRA has always been portrayed in the mainstream press as a radical anti-gun-control organization. Is it? Has it ever been? In that 1968 issue of The American Rifleman, associate editor Alan C. Webber picked up the defense of the NRA's gun-control credentials. I quote again from the NRA's own, official organ: "Item: The late Karl T. Frederick, an NRA president, served for years as special consultant with the Commissioners on Uniform State Laws to frame the Uniform Firearms Act of 1930. ... Salient provisions of the Act require a license to carry a pistol concealed on one's person or in a vehicle; require the purchaser of a pistol to give information about himself which is submitted by the seller to the local police authorities; specify a 48-hour time lapse between application for purchase and delivery." Remember, I'm not asking whether you think these are good ideas. I'm asking whether the NRA is the pack of wild-eyed, take-no-prisoners, "pure language of the Second Amendment, take my gun from my cold dead fingers" radical extremists which the national press corps would have us believe. In fact, can the NRA rightly be said to be a "gun rights" organization, at all? "Item," Editor Webber of The American Rifleman continued back in 1968: "The NRA supported the National Firearms Act of 1934 which taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. ... "NRA currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts. ... " Nor is there much room to believe the NRA has changed its stripes in the past 23 years. In Utah this year, Utah Gun Owners Alliance lobbyist and M.D. Sarah Thompson had worked to get through "a good bill that would have honored concealed-carry permits from any other state without restriction," notes Dennis Fusaro, who himself was let go from GOA in March for not being cooperative enough with the gun-grabbers at the NRA. In the final days of the session, however, NRA lobbyist Brian Judy arrived in Salt Lake City and made a deal to accept an amendment that the out-of-state permits would only be honored for 60 days. "Sarah had the senators pretty well under control and was pushing them with grass-roots pressure, and then Brian Judy goes in the back room and accepts this bad amendment," Fusaro reports. Says Thompson: "Read their magazine. The NRA helped write the National Firearms Act of 1934, the Gun Control Act of 1968. ... Here in Utah they backed our Olympic gun ban" (restricting the right of Utah citizens to carry permitted weapons at Olympic venues while the winter Olympics are in town, so as not to offend the hoplophobic foreigners). "In the 2000 (Utah) Legislature the NRA backed a midnight gun control bill that vastly expanded the list of people prohibited from owning guns in the state, a retroactive ban on people who were adjudicated years ago. As a result of this I get calls from people who have been hunters for years who now have to go through a background check, who did something wrong as a juvenile 30 or 40 years ago, and they've lost their gun rights." The test case for whether GOA or the NRA remains a true "gun-rights organization" will be "what's going on with (President) Bush's proposal for Project Safe Neighborhoods," Thompson warns. Project Safe Neighborhoods is designed to prove the Bush administration is not against "sensible" gun control, she explains, "and the tagline on it is, 'If you use a gun illegally you will do hard time.' "But you don't have prosecutors saying 'We're not going to prosecute rapists because they're really good people.' That's not the problem. Those laws are already enforced. So the people they're really going after are people who are violating one of the 20,000 unconstitutional gun laws, people who put a flash suppressor on their rifle, or have a high capacity magazine on their firearm, or who drive by the school with a hunting rifle in the back of their truck; it's all the unconstitutional, politically correct gun control laws they're going to be enforcing." Vin Suprynowicz, the Review-Journal's assistant editorial page editor, is author of "Send in the Waco Killers." His column appears Sunday. This story is located at: http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/2001/Jun-03-Sun-2001/opinion/16231491.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: More News from Idaho Date: 06 Jun 2001 07:21:34 -0600 CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, CRIMINAL LAW & PROCEDURE IDAHO v. HORIUCHI, No 98-30149 (9th Cir. June 05, 2001) An FBI sniper is not entitled to qualified immunity from state criminal prosecution when executing unconstitutional rules of engagement to shoot an armed suspect. To read the full text of this opinion, go to: [PDF File] http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/9th/9830149p.pdf - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: FWD: Boys and Guns Date: 06 Jun 2001 18:24:10 -0400 (EDT) For any who missed this article in the papers, Janalee passes it along. The article doesn't indicate whether the study attempted to determine what affect gun safety education programs such as "Eddie Eagle" or even hunter safety programs may have had on the likelyhood of a young boy picking up and improperly handling a firearms. However, rather than allow the antis to use this as some kind of support for safe storage laws, liability laws, etc, I believe we should turn the tables on them and use this as evidence that gun safety education needs to be a priority. Reasonable people can probably disagree about whether that education should be mandated in public schools, but one way or another, whether in schools, in homes, or in some other setting, children NEED sound information on what to do should they or a playmate find a gun. Charles ------Original Message------ See the following story that appeared in the Trib today. I have a copy of this report. I studied it over the weekend--the reporter asked me to. I spoke with the reporter for an hour and notice my dinky quote. Here's the killer: This report was co-authored by Arthur Kellerman! I've been doing additional T.V. radio, and newspaper interviews all day exposing the fallacies of this report and calling it "junk science." jt Boys, Guns a Risky Mix, Study Says Tuesday, June 5, 2001 BY TROY GOODMAN THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Most preteen boys will pick up a handgun if they find one, and almost half of those who do will pull the trigger without knowing if it is a real or toy gun, according to research published this week by a Utah pediatrician. The study, which involved placing boys in a room with an unloaded gun in a drawer, confirm what many pediatric and behavior experts have long feared: The innate curiosity of boys -- especially those age 12 or younger -- spells trouble for thousands of gun-owning parents who fail to educate their children about firearms or who store their weapons improperly. "What we've done is prove the obvious," said Geoffrey Jackman, a Salt Lake City pediatric emergency doctor who led the study while he was in Georgia. Some families believe their children can be trusted around guns, Jackman said, and this study should prove otherwise. The parents who volunteered the 8- to 12-year-old boys "all wanted their children to do the right thing -- you know, don't pull the trigger. But many of them did," he said. The findings appear in the latest issue of Pediatrics, a journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics. The study involved 64 preteen boys, each of them put into groups of two or more friends or siblings, who were then placed in a room with a one-way mirror and two separate drawers. One drawer contained a pair of water pistols and the other drawer had an unloaded .38-caliber handgun equipped with a hidden sensor that detected when the trigger is pulled back, Jackman said. A large portion of the boys, about 72 percent, discovered the real gun within 15 minutes of being placed in the room. Of those, more than three-fourths of the sets of boys handled the gun and almost half pulled the trigger with enough force to fire a loaded weapon, according to the study. Jackman's team of three researchers asked the boys who picked up the gun if they thought it was a toy when they touched it, and many said they were not sure. None of the children involved in the study lived in Utah; Jackman, who now works at the University of Utah's Primary Children's Medical Center, conducted the study a couple of years ago while working at Emory University and the Children's Healthcare of Atlanta. One interesting detail to emerge from the research is that parents of the boys appeared unable to predict whether or not their children would pick up the .38, based upon a survey where they ranked their child's curiosity about real guns on a scale between low and high interest. "Boys who were believed to have a low interest in real guns were as likely to handle the handgun or pull the trigger as boys who were perceived to have a moderate or high interest in guns," researchers wrote in the study's conclusion. Growing concern about childhood firearm injuries, including intense news-media coverage of school shootings across the nation, has prompted many advocacy groups to stress the importance of educating parents about the need to remove guns from their homes or at least secure them in a proper manner -- locked up and unloaded. But at least one Utah pro-gun activist said research like the Pediatrics study could do little but feed an anti-gun bias and may even thwart responsible gun ownership and education. This study is "no more than a gun haters' tool to say 'OK, we cannot have guns in homes,' " said Janalee Tobias, president and founder of the Salt Lake City-based Women Against Gun Control. "Man, I sure hope they didn't spend taxpayer money on this study." The study was paid by the pediatrics academy and by private funds from child advocacy groups. Utah Shooting Sports Council Chairman Elwood Powell, however, said he could see the benefit of any finding that pushes parents to teach children more about gun safety. The more they know, said Powell, himself a father of five, the quicker children lose the view of weapons as intriguing, off-limit gadgets. National Rifle Association southwestern volunteer Larry Foster agreed. "You need to show children the gun and let them know it's real and tell them not to bother it," said Foster, who has instructed preteen boys attending the NRA's Whittington Center, a two-week hunting camp held annually on 33,000 acres in northern New Mexico. Unintentional firearm injuries kill about 400 U.S. children each year, often after a child discovers a gun in a home while playing with friends or siblings. Approximately 80 percent of Utah households contain one or more firearms, according to Powell. The national average for gun-owning households was 40 percent in the mid-1990s. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" Subject: Re: FWD: Boys and Guns Date: 06 Jun 2001 18:32:16 -0400 --On Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:24 PM -0400 charles hardy wrote: > For any who missed this article in the papers, Janalee passes it along. > > The article doesn't indicate whether the study attempted to determine > what affect gun safety education programs such as "Eddie Eagle" or even > hunter safety programs may have had on the likelyhood of a young boy > picking up and improperly handling a firearms. This also contradicts another study I read about, which I cannot find now, that showed that those kids who had been to Eddie Eagle almost without fail did as they had been taught... The settings were similar, room with toys and disabled guns and one way mirror... Chad Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Athay, Mark" Subject: RE: FWD: Boys and Guns Date: 06 Jun 2001 16:02:46 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EEDC.CCCA26F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's important to note in the article that these were all boys that had no prior training or experience around guns. Kind of brings to a point the need to train your kids about gun safety, but it doesn't clearly bring this out. Mark R. Athay P.E. NTO 260, SE Wires (801) 220-2130 mark.athay@pacificorp.com mark.athay@ieee.org -----Original Message----- [mailto:chad@pengar.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:32 PM Cc: wagc-ut@egroups.com --On Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:24 PM -0400 charles hardy wrote: > For any who missed this article in the papers, Janalee passes it along. > > The article doesn't indicate whether the study attempted to determine > what affect gun safety education programs such as "Eddie Eagle" or even > hunter safety programs may have had on the likelyhood of a young boy > picking up and improperly handling a firearms. This also contradicts another study I read about, which I cannot find now, that showed that those kids who had been to Eddie Eagle almost without fail did as they had been taught... The settings were similar, room with toys and disabled guns and one way mirror... Chad Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EEDC.CCCA26F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: FWD: Boys and Guns

It's important to note in the article that these were = all boys that had no prior training or experience around guns.  = Kind of brings to a point the need to train your kids about gun safety, = but it doesn't clearly bring this out.

Mark R. Athay  P.E.
NTO 260, SE Wires
(801) 220-2130
mark.athay@pacificorp.com
mark.athay@ieee.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & = Shire.Net LLC
[mailto:chad@pengar.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:32 PM
To: utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com
Cc: wagc-ut@egroups.com
Subject: Re: FWD: Boys and Guns




--On Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:24 PM -0400 charles = hardy
<utbagpiper@juno.com> wrote:

> For any who missed this article in the papers, = Janalee passes it along.
>
> The article doesn't indicate whether the study = attempted to determine
> what affect gun safety education programs such = as "Eddie Eagle" or even
> hunter safety programs may have had on the = likelyhood of a young boy
> picking up and improperly handling a = firearms.

<snip>

This also contradicts another study I read about, = which I cannot find now,
that showed that those kids who had been to Eddie = Eagle almost without fail
did as they had been taught...  The settings = were similar, room with toys
and disabled guns and one way mirror...

Chad



Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC
Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web = hosting
Chad Leigh     
chad@pengar.com =         =         chad@shire.net


-

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EEDC.CCCA26F0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Re: FWD: Boys and Guns Date: 07 Jun 2001 00:07:25 -0600 Make sure your legislators hear from you on this issue. On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:32:16 -0400 "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" writes: > > > --On Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:24 PM -0400 charles hardy > wrote: > > > For any who missed this article in the papers, Janalee passes it > along. > > > > The article doesn't indicate whether the study attempted to > determine > > what affect gun safety education programs such as "Eddie Eagle" or > even > > hunter safety programs may have had on the likelyhood of a young > boy > > picking up and improperly handling a firearms. > > > > This also contradicts another study I read about, which I cannot > find now, > that showed that those kids who had been to Eddie Eagle almost > without fail > did as they had been taught... The settings were similar, room with > toys > and disabled guns and one way mirror... > > Chad > > > > Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC > Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting > Chad Leigh > chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net > > > - > > ---------------- Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: FWD: Urgent Plea! NRWLDF looking for help... Date: 08 Jun 2001 15:11:27 -0400 (EDT) --381230923.992027487622.JavaMail.root@web340-wra.mail.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you probably recall, HB 179, "Paycheck Protection," was supported by grass-roots RKBA groups and citizens as being good for RKBA as well as basic fairness in the electoral process among other good things. Charles ------Original Message------ Dear Friends, The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, Inc. (NRWLDF) is looking for individuals who would be interested in participating in an intervention on behalf of Utah's new paycheck protection statute, House Bill 179, the Voluntary Contributions Act, which is now before the third district court. Of primary interest are individuals who belong to the following organizations listed as plaintiffs: * The Utah Education Association * The Utah Public Employees Association * Utah State AFL-CIO * American Federation of Teachers-Utah * American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Local 1004 * Utah School Employees Association * Professional Fire Fighters of Utah * Salt Lake County Sheriff's Association, F.O.P. Lodge #2 The NRWLDF also needs any other employees from any other groups, both in or out of the government sector, who would be personally affected by HB 179 and who want to help defend this important statute. Participants will not accrue any attorneys fees -- the NRWLDF will cover those expenses. The NRWLDF needs as many people from as many organizations as possible in order to have sufficient "standing." This case has garnered national attention for very good reason -- our new law is arguably the toughest law against union paycheck abuses in America. All eyes are on Utah for leadership in successfully defending this law in court, as this case will test the future integrity of our systems of government. We believe that other education reforms will be more successful once the power of the runaway government employee unions is checked. If you have ANY leads, please contact me immediately. Time is of the essence. In earnest, Daniel P.S. The NRWLDF Web site is at http://www.nrtw.org/home.htm *********************************************** Daniel B. Newby Director of Operations & Development dnewby@sutherlandinstitute.org The Sutherland Institute: Shaping the Future of Utah Independence Square 111 East 5600 South, Suite 202 Salt Lake City, Utah 84107 Phone: (801) 281-2081 Fax: (801) 281-2414 Website: www.sutherlandinstitute.org If you have questions, or would like to receive membership information, please use the contact information above. We welcome your questions, comments, and suggestions. ************************************************ --381230923.992027487622.JavaMail.root@web340-wra.mail.com Content-Type: text/html; name=Attachment1.html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Attachment1.html Content-ID: Attachment1.html Dear Friends,

The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, Inc. (NRWLDF) is looking for individuals who would be interested in participating in an intervention on behalf of Utah's new paycheck protection statute, House Bill 179, the Voluntary Contributions Act, which is now before the third district court.  Of primary interest are individuals who belong to the following organizations listed as plaintiffs:

* The Utah Education Association
* The Utah Public Employees Association
* Utah State AFL-CIO
* American Federation of Teachers-Utah
* American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Local 1004
* Utah School Employees Association
* Professional Fire Fighters of Utah
* Salt Lake County Sheriff's Association, F.O.P. Lodge #2

The NRWLDF also needs any other employees from any other groups, both in or out of the government sector, who would be personally affected by HB 179 and who want to help defend this important statute.  Participants will not accrue any attorneys fees -- the NRWLDF will cover those expenses.  The NRWLDF needs as many people from as many organizations as possible in order to have sufficient "standing."

This case has garnered national attention for very good reason -- our new law is arguably the toughest law against union paycheck abuses in America. All eyes are on Utah for leadership in successfully defending this law in court, as this case will test the future integrity of our systems of government.  We believe that other education reforms will be more successful once the power of the runaway government employee unions is checked.

If you have ANY leads, please contact me immediately.  Time is of the essence.

In earnest,
Daniel

P.S.  The NRWLDF Web site is at http://www.nrtw.org/home.htm


***********************************************
Daniel B. Newby
Director of Operations & Development
dnewby@sutherlandinstitute.org

The Sutherland Institute: Shaping the Future of Utah
Independence Square
111 East 5600 South, Suite 202
Salt Lake City, Utah  84107
Phone:   (801) 281-2081
Fax:         (801) 281-2414
Website: www.sutherlandinstitute.org

If you have questions, or would like to receive membership
information, please use the contact information above.  We
welcome your questions, comments, and suggestions.
************************************************ --381230923.992027487622.JavaMail.root@web340-wra.mail.com-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fred on discouraging sexual assault Date: 12 Jun 2001 15:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Fred's latest police column is a great read in favor of concealed carry. A= few quotes too good to not pass along. "The most workable approach is to get a concealed-carry permit and a small = revolver. The idea is shocking to the highly liberal. It is, however, remar= kably effective. Being shot a half-dozen times usually causes the assailant= to reconsider his priorities. Except through a miracle, a woman isn=92t go= ing to fight off a determined attacker, but a woman can pull a trigger as w= ell as a man can." "If you live in Maryland or Washington, you have a problem. Practically spe= aking, these jurisdictions allow criminals to carry concealed. Citizens can= =92t. The wisdom of this is highly debatable, but the reality is that self-= defense is discouraged." I like the second one. We might just as easily say, "Practically speaking,= "gun free" zones (whether they be churches, or schools, or even olympic ve= nues) allow criminals to carry concealed weapons. However, law abiding citi= zens can't. The reality is that self defense is discouraged." Full article, which is a delightful read is at . Charles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Does Firearms Confiscation Lie Ahead? Date: 14 Jun 2001 07:11:04 -0600 Drop by this URL to read this alert, find your congers-critter using your zip code, and email or fax him a letter. This bill would gut the Brady registration scheme, and the more letters that pour in the better. GOA has timed this perfectly. Evoking all the records problems at the FBI is a master-stroke; there is sentiment in Washington to "do something" about the FBI. http://capwiz.com/gunowners/issues/alert/?alertid=2&type=CO&azip= *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** Does the Confiscation of your Firearms Lie Ahead? -- Congressman sponsors bill to drive a "stake" through Brady's registration scheme Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.org (Wednesday, June 13, 2001) -- Greece. Ireland. Jamaica. Bermuda. England. New York City. What do all of these countries or jurisdictions have in common? The answer: each government used gun registration lists to later confiscate firearms. And yes, this even happened in our own country as documented by the New York City media several years ago. (For example, see "Weapons ban defied: S.I. man, arsenal seized," Daily News, September 5, 1992.) Federal Gun Registration Well, fast forward to 2001. There is a growing concern among the gun-owning community that names are permanently being registered in a federal database as a result of the 1993 Brady law. In most cases, a person who buys a firearm from a gun dealer must have his name phoned in to the FBI for a background check. The FBI compares that name to a list of known criminals, and then lets the dealer know if the sale can proceed. But no one can be certain of what the FBI does with that gun owner's name. Officially, the FBI is supposed to delete the names of lawful buyers after 180 days. FBI officials say that's what they are doing. But they also said they gave Timothy McVeigh's defense all the files they had... and that they never fired any pyrotechnics into the Branch Davidian home in Waco... and that they knew Michael Salvati of Massachusetts was guilty of murdering a man in 1965 -- when in reality the FBI suppressed evidence that would have cleared Salvati, thus sparing him the 30 years he later spent in jail. The FBI has since been forced to "come clean" on these and other issues. See the problem? How can gun owners be sure they are getting the truth? Which, of course, takes us back to gun owner registration. Once a name is punched into an FBI computer, can anyone be positively sure that name will ever be deleted? Can anyone be sure that no back up will exist -- anywhere? Brady Abuse Cut-off One of the highest agenda items at Gun Owners of America is to roll back the unconstitutional Brady law. Taking a major stride toward that goal, Rep. Joel Hefley (R-CO) has introduced a bill, H.R. 1460, that will keep the FBI from taxing and registering gun owners. H.R. 1460 is identical to the language introduced by Sen. Bob Smith of New Hampshire three years ago -- legislation that would have, if fully enacted, cut the heart out of the Brady law. The Hefley language calls for the "immediate destruction" of ANY and ALL information that might help identify lawful gun buyers. But the best part about this bill is that it does more than just put restrictions on the FBI -- restrictions that might otherwise be ignored. H.R. 1460 contains teeth. Private individuals will be specifically authorized to sue the FBI for any violations of privacy under the Brady Law -- such as maintaining registration information. Moreover, the bill specifically offers to compensate gun owners for legal fees when they sue the FBI. ACTION: Please urge your Representative to cosponsor the Hefley bill, H.R. 1460. Ultimately, of course, true defenders of freedom realize that the entire Brady Law, including the unconstitutional Instant Check, must be repealed. The Hefley bill would be -- in the words of Sarah Brady -- a "good first step." Please use the pre-written text below to help direct your comments to Capitol Hill. You can call your Representatives at 1-877-762-8762 (toll free) or at 202-225-3121. To identify your Representatives, as well as to send a message via e-mail, see the Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm on the GOA website. ----- Pre-written message ----- Dear Representative: I urge you to cosponsor H.R. 1460, the "Second Amendment Rights Protection Act of 2001." This bill is extremely important, since it will stop the FBI attempts to register and tax gun owners. H.R. 1460 contains real "teeth." It gives aggrieved private citizens the ability to sue the FBI, and to collect monetary damages -- including attorney's fees -- if a court determines the FBI is registering gun owners. Relying on the police to police themselves is never the best way to go. This bill would help protect the privacy of American citizens. Again, please cosponsor H.R. 1460. Gun Owners of America will keep me informed on the progress of this bill. Sincerely, __________________________ ************** Do not reply directly to this message. To subscribe to free, low-volume GOA alerts, go to http://www.gunowners.org/ean.htm on the web. Change of e-mail address may also be made at that location. *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: [RKBA!] BUY A GUN DAY July 9 Date: 18 Jun 2001 12:14:22 -0600 On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:45:02 -0400 Skypod (Melissa) informs: GREAT poster! http://www.wtv-zone.com/Kristy/images3/Buy_a_gun.jpg in Life, Liberty & pursuit of happiness, Melissa ICQ#: 58058555 HTTP://profiles.yahoo.com/Skypod "No law ever written has stopped any robber, rapist or killer, like cold blue steel in the hands of their last intended victim." ~ W.Emerson Wright - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: Minorities and Guns: Armed affirmative action Date: 21 Jun 2001 12:02:03 -0600 Minorities and Guns: Armed affirmative action http://www.free-market.net/spotlight/minguns/ Allowing authorities to veto effective means of self-defense may be the worst nightmare for minorities and persecuted groups. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: PayPal Must Die! Date: 25 Jun 2001 19:41:12 -0600 PayPal Discriminates Against Gun Owners Paypal online transaction systems discriminates against gun owners. http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2141 So long, Paypal. from Angel Shamaya KeepAndBearArms.com June 25, 2001 The now famous Paypal http://www.paypal.com/ system for transferring funds online with reduced risk of having your credit card number nabbed boasted over $2 Billion in transactions as recently as April of this year. They've been written up in such illustrious magazines and periodicals as Investor's Business Daily, PC Magazine, CNET, Time, Esquire, ZDNet, U.S. News, the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, the Washington Post, and many more including both the Associated Press and PBS broadcasting. And now it's time to nuke them. They've taken a stand against the free and full expression of the right to keep and bear arms, and they must die. You can turn to the "Prohibited Goods and Services" section of their http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/shop/guide-outside#prohibited website and scroll down to where you'll find the following statements: "Firearms/Guns/Explosives "Shopkeepers who sell firearms or explosives will be disqualified from listing in PayPal Shops. Any item that is designed to propel a metal (or similar) projectile is covered by this policy. Exceptions to this rule include collectible, curio & relic, and antique firearms, as well as archery supplies. "Firearms-related items that are not permitted include silencers, converters (any item which can convert a firearm to have automatic capability), short barrels, and kits (any kit that can be used to create a firearm). High capacity magazines and ammunition with propellant cannot be listed. Blank ammunition is not allowed. "There is Federal and state laws requiring that replica, "look alike" and imitation firearms have clear markings permanently affixed to the weapon. This law applies even to novelty items, such as cigarette lighters that are designed to look like firearms. All look-alike items of this nature listed by a PayPal Shopkeeper must comply with the law." Okee dokie, Paypal. If you say so. If you have a Paypal account and would like to cancel it, hop over to their contact page and do so: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_contact-general. If you were thinking of setting up a Paypal account and are now reconsidering, let them know all about your position. Then pass this message on, far and wide. If you're not the letter writing type but are willing to use a pre-written letter, perhaps the following will assist you: Dear Paypal, I just found out about your policy of prohibiting the sales of constitutionally protect items (firearms) within your Paypal system -- proving yourself to be yet one more entity unworthy of my business, time, attention and money. Should you change your policy, feel free to let me know. Otherwise, you're in my rearview mirror permanently. Please don't bother sending excuses. I have no ear for people who make it that much harder to exercise the constitutional right to keep and bear arms, whatever their unAmerican sub-justifications may be. Goodbye. Sincerely, - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: FW: Kmart on Handgun ammo Date: 30 Jun 2001 10:26:12 -0600 -------- Original Message -------- ATTENTION BLUELIGHT.COM SHOPPERS! In order to better serve you, please include this email number in any future inquiry or reply: [redacted] Dear Scott, Thank you for sharing your feedback on Kmart's decision to stop selling firearm ammunition. Our ability to continue satisfying our customers relies to a great extent on feedback from consumers like you. Kmart Corporation confirms that it is in the process of phasing out the sale of handgun ammunition in the continental United States. The business plan calls for this process to be complete within the next 90 days. The sale of firearms and ammunition at Kmart stores has been under review as part of the merchandising strategy of the company's new executive team for some time. The company will continue to carry a limited selection of sporting firearms and related products. Kmart Corporation recognizes the responsibility that comes with selling firearms of any kind and has extensive safety procedures and training in place for all store employees. Additional questions or suggestions may be directed to the team at our Kmart Customer Care Network: kmartCCN@kmart.com. --Your BlueLight Customer Care Team >I hear you will no longer sell handgun ammunition. >I've enjoyed shopping at Kmart since you fired >Rosie O'Donnell. I'll miss you. Hope you miss me. >Scott Bergeson -