From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: Ace isn't the Place! Date: 03 Jul 2001 15:25:19 -0600 On Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:46:54 -0600 Sarah Thompson" wrote to utgoa@yahoogroups.com: ROSIE'S BACK! Rosie O'Donnell keeps turning up everywhere, like the bad penny she is. Rosie, as you remember, believes that anyone who owns a gun, for any reason, should go to prison. At the same time, she's hired armed bodyguards to protect her own kids, who are apparently far more deserving of safety than our kids. Because of a gun owner boycott, K-Mart was forced to eliminate Rosie as the company spokesperson. But now Ace Hardware is sponsoring Rosie on their web site! See http://www.acehardware.com/paintbrand/paint/PaintRosie.asp Please let Ace know what you think of their decision to feature Rosie, http://www.acehardware.com/root/contact_form.asp And please stay out of Ace Hardware stores until they apologize to their pro-liberty customers. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: Ashcroft's letter on gun rights prompts ethics complaint Date: 04 Jul 2001 00:44:08 -0600 Ashcroft's letter on gun rights prompts ethics complaint ---------- Enraged that Attorney General John Ashcroft admitted in a letter to the NRA that the Second Amendment protects the rights of individuals to keep and bear arms, two anti-freedom groups allege that the statement constitutes an ethical violation. (07/03/01) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/A10808-2001Jul2.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: FW: Re: Ace isn't the Place! Date: 04 Jul 2001 14:01:23 -0600 SDLiberty@aol.com advises: We certainly need to let Ace dealers know, but please, please, keep in mind that as far as I know, all Ace Hardware stores are locally owned and operated and are not corporate stores. Ace is a cooperative, and so letting their local affliates know will make a difference. Our local Ace store in Rapid City is owned by Bob Knecht, who if misguided (an NRA member by definition is) is certainly pro-Gun and highly unlikely to be pleased with ROD. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles C Hardy Subject: Fw: Justice Department Reverses Gun Rights Position Date: 11 Jul 2001 16:00:05 -0600 This is relatively good news. If anyone finds any easy way to provide feedback to yahoo about what sites they ought to list under their "related sites" please let me know. I'd really like to see them list JPFO, GOA, etc in addition to the NRA. --------- Forwarded message ---------- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Reversing a position it adopted nearly 30 years ago, the Justice Department is preparing a formal legal opinion that individuals, not just groups, have a constitutional right to own guns, a view advocated by Attorney General John Ashcroft, department officials said on Wednesday. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010711/ts/crime_guns_dc_1.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles C Hardy Subject: FW: URGENT: Help defeat Shays-Meehan/Ney-Wynn/McCain-Feingold Date: 11 Jul 2001 16:04:38 -0600 If passed, so-called "campaign finance reform" bills--more accurately known as "incumbant protection" bills--could seriously stifle the ability of grass roots organization to get out information about politicians close enough to an election to have any effect. --------- Forwarded message ---------- The U.S. House is set to debate and vote on two disastrous pieces of legislation: Shays-Meehan (HR 1256) and Ney-Wynn (HR 1260). These are the House versions of the Senate's McCain-Feingold bill. All of these bills are disastrous, and would restrict freedom of speech and association, protect incumbents, and cripple third parties. They must be defeated. RealCampaignReform.org has created an online lobbying system that will allow you to send a message directly to your Congressperson asking him or her to vote against Shays-Meehan and Ney-Wynn. Please go to http://www.RealCampaignReform.org NOW and send a message to your Representative. It will only take a few seconds. Please do it now. This is very important. They may vote on these bills tomorrow or Friday, and we need to do everything we can to make sure they don't pass. Among other things, these bills would: * Make it illegal for groups to run ads opposing candidates within 60 days of an election. * Ban soft money contributions to political parties. This would make it virtually impossible for smaller parties, like the Libertarian Party, to ever raise enough money to make their message heard. * Subject independent expenditures by individuals to harsh prohibitions, effectively silencing voters. * Place restrictions on Internet campaigning that would be devastating to the efforts of challengers and minor parties. These bills MUST be defeated. We've made it easy for you to tell your representative to vote no. Please go to http://www.RealCampaignReform.org and send your message right now. Thank you. P.S. After you've sent your message to your Representative, please forward this message to your friends and ask them to help, too. |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: Qwest and USWest (USWorst) email problems - PLEASE FORWARD Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:08:09 -0600 Please forward to Salt Lake area acquaintances and lists, and especially to qwest.net customers! Since June 29 (this time -- it has occurred before) emails to qwest.net customers in the Salt Lake area have been sporadically misdirected to uswest.net, which instead of correctly redirecting them bounces them as follows: -=-=-=- Quote -=-=-=- Hi. This is the qmail-send program at slkcpop2.slkc.uswest.net. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) -=-=-=- End quote -=-=-=- Please ask anyone with such an account to be on the alert for for bounces on posts to them, and call 1-888-777-9569 to complain. Qwest still does not have an area alert out even though this has been going on since June 29. A groundswell of protest may wake them up. It appears Utahns are too patient. You can also email mailto:dns-info@QWEST.NET and mailto:dns-nsi@QWESTIP.NET, and use the Web form at http://my.qwest.net/tools/tech_support.cgi . Copy and paste works reasonably well. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: FW: War at hand? We may never know Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:27:38 -0600 Finally an explanation for the incessant coverage, every hour on the hour for a long time each time, of the medical condition of that boy whose arm a shark bit off near Pensacola. No URL provided as I received this. Scott Chomsky's proof By William Rivers Pitt The United States is unusual among the industrial democracies in the rigidity of the system of ideological control—'indoctrination,' we might say—exercised through the mass media. —Noam Chomsky June 25, 2001—In the early morning hours of Thursday, June 22, 2001, a man named Jared T. Bozydaj took to the streets of New Paltz, New York, with an Intrac Arms 7.62 semi-automatic assault rifle. He fired pointedly at police officers, wounding one officer named Jeffery Quiepo in the arm. The shooting went on for several hours before Bozydaj was disarmed and arrested. Bozydaj was described as being highly upset by the execution of Timothy McVeigh. He apparently had decided to take revenge in McVeigh's name on the police, whom Bozydaj referred to as "control mechanisms for the government." Weapons and literature in his apartment indicated that Bozydaj had been planning this attack for some time. New Paltz is a small community near the Hudson River about an hour north of New York City. The downtown district is filled with small stores, as well as a number of bars that cater to the students of the State University of New York (SUNY) New Paltz, the campus of which is only a few blocks away from where this shooting occurred. The best word to describe the place is 'quaint.' My girlfriend was born and raised near this town. I have spent many drunken hours with her in the bars that now bear the bullet holes from Bozydaj's rampage. My girlfriend's parents report that much of downtown New Paltz is roped off with yellow police tape today. One can see quite clearly the damage done by Bozydaj's assault rifle, and the police believe it is a miracle that no one was killed. One SUNY student reported that eight bullets passed through her bedroom wall, and said that she would have been shot in the head if her radiator had not deflected the rounds. I discovered this story on the forums of DemocraticUnderground.com, where someone had posted it as a topic for discussion about McVeigh-oriented violence. I forwarded the link, a story from the Zwire news service, to my girlfriend, for obvious reasons. She called her parents and got the story from the ground. The local New Paltz paper, the Times-Herald Record, covered the shooting in detail, and she sent me the link to their story. The next day, my girlfriend called me. "I haven't seen this story in any of the newspapers," she said. "It wasn't on CNN or Peter Jennings last night. Why do you think they aren't reporting this? Some guy shot up my town, and shot a cop. That's news, isn't it?" I am a news junkie, and had myself noticed that this interesting and disturbing story had not appeared anywhere in the national news media. Using the words "New Paltz" and "Bozydaj," I searched The New York Times, an obvious place for this story to appear, and came up empty. I did the same at CNN.com, The Washington Post, ABCNews.com and several other news outlets, and found nothing. A man, motivated by the execution of Timothy McVeigh, had gone on an hours-long shooting rampage directed exclusively at cops in a small New York town with a sophisticated assault rifle. He blew a hole in a cop, and shot hell out of every storefront in the vicinity. He nearly put a bullet through the head of a sleeping college student. Somehow, this was not deemed newsworthy by virtually every major news outlet in America, including the Times of New York, the state where this shooting took place. Why? An immediate explanation is that the editors of these news sources were acting out of a sense of responsibility. For most Americans, the name Timothy McVeigh is synonymous with pure evil. It is likely that a decision was reached among the purveyors of our information that nothing should be published or broadcast that will give ear to those who consider McVeigh a martyred hero. The fear, I suppose, is that if enough of these kinds of stories get out, some of our militia-oriented citizenry will think the Revolution is finally at hand, and take to the streets of their own small burgs with rifles at the ready. This kind of quiet censorship, however, raises some disturbing questions. If unreported McVeigh-motivated shootings like this are happening in New Paltz, where I am lucky enough to have eyes on the ground, where else are they happening, and going unreported? I have no friends in Akron, Butte, Silver Springs, Kissimmee, El Paso, or Needles. Where else in America is violence like this breaking loose? Why are we not being told of it? What else is being withheld? Noted linguist Noam Chomsky has observed many times that the national media is not the information-disbursing entity created by our love for the First Amendment of the Constitution. Rather, the national media is the propaganda wing of the status quo. The national media tells us things in a certain way to keep our eyes on the ground, and to keep us from questioning power too closely. When no other avenue is available to control the masses, the national media simply refuses to inform us at all. We have seen this phenomenon many times in many places. How many of us truly know the level of poverty that exists in America? How many of us know the toll our sanctions in Iraq have taken on the civilian populace of that country? How many of us know the number of dead that were left at the hands of CIA-trained and armed murderers in Nicaragua during the Reagan administration? How many of us truly know the extent to which corporations run the government of this country? Were we told all the facts in unpolished newspaper prose, a howl of outrage the likes of which has never before been heard would rise from the throat of the American populace. This, more than anything, is the reason we are left in our uninformed state of bliss. Were we to be truly informed by the media outlets, so much would change so fast, and so many of those who hold the power and the purse strings would be run out of town on a rail, that the very nature of power in this country would be shattered forever. Those who sup on the teat of the status quo want nothing to do with this. Ergo, we are left in the dark. Such a condition is beyond the concepts of Left or Right. Political affiliation is mere window-dressing in the high apartments of true power in America. One need only look at the corporate connections of Gore and Bush, our last two presidential challengers, to know that party politics doesn't matter a damn at the end of the day. Everything boils down to the central question: who rules? Not us, friends. Not when we are kept safe and uninformed. It is better this way, when the tree-shakers are kept out of the loop. The fact that Mr. Bozydaj's shooting rampage went completely unreported by the national news media, an entity entrusted with informing this vast nation about the truths that happen within its borders, should shake your confidence in what we are told to its foundations. I don't care for Mr. Bozydaj's views, and I despise anyone who would attack police officers with an assault rifle. But, simply put, he happened. We deserve to know. If the news media can report on a consensual relationship between adults for two years, they can report on Mr. Bozydaj. If the news media can report on every school shooting, despite the real danger of inciting copycat outrages, they can report on Mr. Bozydaj. And if they can report the actions of Mr. Bozydaj, they can certainly report other stories, as well. We deserve to know who runs this country. We deserve to know where we are at war, and who is dying. We deserve to know where we have been at war, and whom we killed. We deserve to know who is starving in our country, and why. We deserve to know what happened in Florida. We deserve to know many things we are never told of, or are lied to about. When we are not told, we are deprived of the right and ability to determine the course of this country, as is our purpose as citizens. We all know the dangers of making uninformed decisions, having done so to our woe many times in our daily lives. How many decisions have we made in the name of this nation without all the relevant facts in hand? How many more such decisions will we make? Too often, others do our thinking for us. The story of Mr. Bozydaj is just one example of this phenomenon. If you love this country, fear in your soul what other areas in the life of our country you are not allowed to participate in, simply because someone else decided you didn't need to know. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: FW: California Patriot Stands Up and Fights Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:30:35 -0600 On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:53:38 -0400 Skypod (Melissa) provides: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2223 California Patriot Stands Up and Fights by Brian Puckett President, www.CitizensOfAmerica.org One American has had enough of politicians infringing on his right to own and use firearms, and is using the law to go after these politicians personally. Donald Bird, 67, of Rancho Tehama, California filed suit on June 12 against Governor Gray Davis, a number of California senators and assemblymen, and 10 John Does and Jane Does. Mr. Bird claims damages for violation of his civil rights, specifically his right to own and use firearms as protected under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. The suit was filed suit in the Eastern U.S. District Court of California, citing U.S. Code Title 18, which outlines various legal sanctions against government officials who conspire to misuse their offices and powers to violate the constitutional rights of their fellow citizens, and Title 42 which outlines the legal remedies citizens have for violations of constitutional rights. Mr. Bird believes that his chance of winning in court was but one consideration in his decision to file suit. Quoted in an article by staff writer Jack Moran in the Red Bluff (CA) Daily News, Mr. Bird said, "To me, it will be worth the $150 I paid to file the suit just to have a jury hear my complaints." and further, "Hopefully, others will see what I've done and can improve on the lawsuit." Mr. Bird, a retired contractor, filed suit without benefit of an attorney. Whether or not attorneys are used, such actions taken by hundreds of individuals across the nation may result in getting a Second Amendment case before the U.S. Supreme Court. Mr. Bird - with whom I have spoken and corresponded previously - is nothing if not a serious, dedicated, and tenacious patriot. Regarding this lawsuit, he says, "If I get beaten up in court, at least I will get a chance to find out what my mistakes were. If I'm not successful, I'll just try again." In an article titled "A Plan to Restore the Second Amendment", originally published in Handguns Magazine, I recommended using precisely this tactic to fight usurpations and abrogations of our right to own and use firearms. This article may be read on KeepAndBearArms.com: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=132 Anyone interested in filing suit against city, county, state, or federal agents or officials can email me at Brian@CitizensOfAmerica.org and I'll email them a basic "starter kit" listing various laws and lawsuits that may be utilized to file your own lawsuit. - Brian Puckett, President, Citizens Of America - A National Pro-Gun Rights Ad Campaign: http://www.CitizensOfAmerica.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: FW: K-Mart Ammunition Sales Date: 13 Jul 2001 18:09:32 -0600 ----- I just talked to K-Mart at 866 562-7848 which they had setup for the complaints on the ammunition sales. They must be getting a lot of calls to have set up a new number. Anyway, when you call this number they will type out a complaint and take your name and number. They say that they will forward that to the executive board at K-Mart. They seem very willing to listen and type up everything you have to say. Don't pass up the opportunity to express your frustration at K-Marts' giving in to the anti-gun extremists. Be polite when calling for it makes us all look more reasonable. John L. Cushman Semper Fidelis (always faithful) Semper Vigilanti (always vigilant) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: Qwest improv platform Date: 13 Jul 2001 19:45:55 -0600 I'd like to let you all know, though the BCC list is markedly pared from before, that Qwest technician Tom, badge #20726, found two errors in the improv platform (No, I don't know what that is.) and corrected them. Let's hope that solves the bounce problem. If not, refer to the numbers and addresses on my previous post. Scott - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: Freedom and Firearms Date: 14 Jul 2001 17:18:31 -0600 http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web/mcclintock/article_print.asp?PID=189 -- "The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the law of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence." -- John Adams - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: FW: ca-firearms] Lowes Home Improvement - Guns Are Bad Date: 15 Jul 2001 16:21:20 -0600 ----- Forwarded Message ----- My response to Lowe's: "Nurses for Self Defense Rights has noticed you've recommended that people remove all guns from their homes, with the admonition that this will enhance home safety. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our research indicates that for every accidental and criminal related death by firearms, their are ten lives saved and over 60 violent crimes prevented. Additionally, our research also indicates that no gun control law has ever reduced death rates at the local, state, or national level, not only in the United States, but worldwide. In fact, the overall violent crime rate usually goes up as a direct result of reduced access to firearms by citizens within a country that enacts gun control. Nurses for Self Defense Rights is saddened by the irresponsible position taken by Lowe's corporate structure and will be certain to forward your dangerous position to all information outlets available. Sincerely, Pat A. Hines, BSN, RN National Chair, Nurses for Self Defense Rights" ================================================= The Second Amendment Police Department (in CyberSpace) http://www.2ampd.net/ Join our Discussion List for cops and cop-friendly citizens at http://www.egroups.com/group/2ampd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" Subject: ABC CCW Gun poll - VOTE! (fwd) (fwd) Date: 16 Jul 2001 14:50:39 -0400 ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- FYI - Go to it before it disappears. Currently we are ahead 66% to 33% ... Vote on the on-line poll at abcnews.com Notice that the poll uses the term "hidden" instead of "concealed." The bias never ends. Poll listed in right hand column under VOTE http://abcnews.go.com/ (For newcomers: Polls like this are not scientific, because they are not based on a random sampling of voters. But we forward the link because if our side loses, the poll will be used against us. When we win, we never hear about the poll again.) -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: British crimes soaring after gun ban Date: 16 Jul 2001 12:51:27 -0600 British crimes soaring after gun ban ---------- The controversial British ban on the ownership of handguns which was introduced after the Dunblane massacre has failed to halt a surge in crimes involving firearms. Handguns were used in 3,685 offenses last year compared with 2,648 in 1997. (07/16/01) http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/07/15/ngun15.xml - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" Subject: Add "Google" to the anti-gun crowd. Date: 17 Jul 2001 15:31:26 -0400 Hi All Add "Google" search engine to the anti-gun crowd. Let them know your displeasure if you can as well, if you are so inclined. I sell Dillon loading presses through my website www.eguns.com . That is all I sell. I am not an FFLand do not trade at all in firearms. I was trying to use Google's AdWords ads to see if I can increase my business. This is the response I got from them "...please know that we do not allow advertisements for the sale of guns or related products." This was a direct mail from their support team when I inquired why I had not receivde a confirmation. They allow porno, but not loading presses? You can let the AdWords team know your displeasure at mailto:adwords@google.com . Their general email seems to be mailto:info@google.com . Their snailmail address is: Goggle, Inc. 2400 Bayshore Parkway Mountain View CA 94043 Best regards Chad Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: RE: GOOGLE, IS THIS TRUE???????????????????? (e) Date: 18 Jul 2001 08:54:58 -0600 -------- Original Message -------- CC: KABA-Advisors@yahoogroups.com Google.com AdWords Team, Thank you for your timely response. Couple more questions, please: 1) Besides guns and gun-related items, what other types of legal products do you block from being advertised in your AdWords advertising system? 2) Specifically, do you allow pornography websites to advertise in your AdWords system? 3) I understand that you have a clause in your Terms & Conditions that stipulates your right to refuse any old person or business you choose -- your prerogative, of course -- but will you please offer some sort of explanation, so we and our associates can make an informed decision as to whether or not to remove any reference to Google.com from numerous websites? Respectfully, Angel Shamaya Founder/Executive Director KeepAndBearArms.com (520) 522-8833 Copies to: Date sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:11:17 -0700 >Hello Angel, >Thank you for your email. It is Google's corporate policy that we do >not allow the advertisement of firearms. While we do not state this >directly on our site currently, we do state in our AdWords Terms and >Conditions that >"Notwithstanding anything contained in this Agreement to the contrary, >Google may, in its sole discretion, terminate or discontinue the >AdWords Program at any time, terminate your AdWords Program account, >discontinue your participation in the AdWords Program, cancel your >Advertisements, or cancel your use of any Target.." >Also, please know that if you search Google.com for "guns," we do >provide search results, just not ads. We in no way are saying that >the advertiser is not law abiding. >Thank you for your understanding. >Please feel free to email us at adwords@google.com with further >questions or concerns. >Sincerely, >The Google AdWords Team >-----Original Message----- >From: Angel Shamaya [mailto:Director@KeepAndBearArms.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:44 PM >To: adwords@google.com; info@google.com >Cc: KABA-Advisors@yahoogroups.com >Subject: GOOGLE, IS THIS TRUE???????????????????? >RE: Google.com Censoring Legal Products from Search Engine >July 17, 2001 >Dear Google.com Support Team, >One of our colleagues has contacted us to relate that Google.com "does >not allow advertisements for the sale of guns or related products." >This particular gentleman -- a lawful, decent citizen -- was seeking >to advertise the sale of reloading presses, to assist sports shooters >in saving money that they may enjoy their sport. The product is a >legal product to sell and legal product to buy -- sold legally, by a >law-abiding citizen. >Can you either confirm or deny that your policy does "not allow >advertisements for the sale of guns or related products." >If this is true, can you please direct me to a place on your website >where your policy is published? I used your site's internal search >engine and received the following message: "Your search - gun - did >not match any documents. No pages were found containing 'gun'." As >you are clearly capable in producing a funtioning search engine, I am >assuming that your policy is not published, or doesn't exist. I hope >it is the latter. >We currently provide a link to your website on our home page -- use >you as our sole "websearch engine" from our site, actually -- and your >server logs can show you the amount of traffic we provide. We also >have numerous allies throughout the nation who use your services, as >well, and they do not take kindly to censorship or being discriminated >against. >I truly hope this rumor is just that... a rumor. >Respectfully, >Angel Shamaya >Founder/Executive Director >http://www.KeepAndBearArms.com >Director@KeepAndBearArms.com >(520) 522-8833 >At least 83,000,000 gun owners behaved peacefully today. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles C Hardy Subject: Link debunking Kellerman's "study" Date: 19 Jul 2001 12:57:05 -0600 For any who would like a nice, brief, article debunking Kellerman's "43 times" numbers, the following link is provided by wagc-ut member... --------- Forwarded message ---------- http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,7217,00.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles C Hardy Subject: Fw: Fw: NEWS - NSW Tingle on stolen guns Date: 25 Jul 2001 11:40:34 -0600 No doubt the anti-gun side will use this as evidence that even gun clubs ought to be shut down. As a personal asside, back when gun racks were more common than gun safes, my step father refused to have one, incisting they only made it convenient for theives to steal all your guns at once. Instead, our guns were spread throughout the entire house, tucked into the backs of clothes closets, tool closets, pantries, and food storage rooms. We never had a break in, so I don't know if it "worked," but I always figured another benefit of such storage was that nearly every bedroom (and many other rooms) in the home had a gun in it--generally with some ammo nearby--in the event of a home invasion. We stored our guns this way from the time my younger brother was 6 and through a dozen grandchildren (my nieces and nephews) coming to visit regularly. My grandfather had stored his guns similarly. We were simply all taught proper gun safety. Interestingly (as long as I'm on a personal note) my step-father really disliked BB and pellet guns. He considered them too dangerous. Instead, I had my first .22 when I was about 7 or 8 (late by many standards, I know). It lived in my step-father's closet and was taken out only to go shooting. Sometime a year or two later, rather than taking it to put it away following a trip to the shooting pit, my step-father had me put the gun in my closet. It, and later a 12 ga. and various deer rifles, lived in my closet from then on. I was nearly 18 before I ever had a BB gun. Of course, everyone's situation is unique, and these days a good gun safe, properly secured, is probably desireable for many peaple for a variety of reasons. --------- Forwarded message ---------- Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 12:44 AM > MEDIA RELEASE July 25 2001 > FIREARMS ARE SAFER AT HOME! > Firearm owners claimed today that the theft of 14 handguns from a > Queensland shooting club had demonstrated "the ignorant folly" of the > campaign by anti-gun groups for firearms to be stored in gun clubs or > central repositories. > > Shooters Party MLC John Tingle said the constant claim of the > anti-gunners had been that central storage of guns, in repositories and > clubs, rather than in the homes of their licensed owners would keep the > guns safe and out of harm's way. Mr Tingle said Sunday night's theft of > 14 semi-automatic pistols from a club south of Brisbane, had shown just > how silly and uninformed this argument was. > > "We have tried again and again to explain that central storage of guns > just creates a supermarket for criminals." he said. "The concentration > of large numbers of firearms in the one place allows the criminal who > breaks into that place a wonderful opportunity to pick and choose the > best. This is illustrated in the Queensland incident, where the thieves > stole high quality handguns, including Smith and Wessons, Glocks and > Rugers. What those efficient, concealable guns are going to be used for > now, is anybody's guess - but one thing is certain; and that is that > they're in the hands of criminals, to be used in crime, or even > terrorist activities during the CHOGM meeting in Brisbane in October." > > The firearms were stolen after the club had closed up on Sunday night, > and even though they had been stored in a locked strong-room, it is > reported that the thieves broke in through a rear door, and forced their > way into the strong-room. > > "With our present rules about safe storage, legally owned guns are > secured in locked safes in the homes of their legal owners, scattered > throughout the community" Mr Tingle said. "Usually a thief has no way > of knowing which guns a particular firearm owner has; and if the thief > does succeed in breaking into a house, he then has to try to force a > substantial safe, not knowing whether it will ultimately be worth his > while, or not. It would take weeks or months to acquire the sort of > firearms that were stolen in Brisbane in a matter of minutes." > > Mr Tingle claimed that by campaigning to have guns left locked in > unattended club houses, or central repositories, the anti-gun element > were showing massive ignorance of the facts of safe storage; and, if > their campaign succeeded, they would put the community at greater > risk. Statistically, the greater numbers of firearm thefts occurred in > places where large numbers were kept, including defence establishments, > police stations and security organisations. > > "Thankfully, Governments have had the good sense to reject the central > repository idea" he said "and this dangerous and worrying theft should > knock the idea on the head for good. Licensed firearms owners are > responsible for their registered firearms, and the safest place for > those firearms to be stored, when not in use, is in the homes of their > owners." > Contact: John Tingle Parliament House 9230 3059 > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles C Hardy Subject: Fwd: The World's New Crime Capital Date: 25 Jul 2001 16:58:45 -0600 This is an interesting and potentially useful way to view crime stats... --------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Found an interesting article in "American Handgunner" today. According to >the article the Leiden University in Holland conducted what it called a >"International Crime Victims Survey". It's number one most dangerous >country was Australia with more than 30 percent of it's citizens falling >victim to violent crime. England (including Wales) was second with 26 >percent. Holland, Sweden, and Canada round out the top five. The United >States didn't even make the top ten (even though we have more guns >per-person than any of the others). This is a trend that can be seen on >a state-to-state level here in the US. Those states with the most >regulation concerning private ownership of firearms have the highest >national crime rates. Those with relaxed standards have lower crime >rates.(This is an incredibly brief summary of Dr. Lotts book "More Guns, >Less Crime".) Just something to think about. > >Jake ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles C Hardy Subject: Broadband ISP company to avoid--off topic Date: 30 Jul 2001 10:49:12 -0600 Forgive me an off topic post, but I hope someone can avoid gettng burned. A company in the SL area called BBSC (Broadband Business Solutions, or something) offers wireless broadband, internet service to businesses. They recently purchased all assetts of CoGoLink which had been offering wireless broadband internet service to both business and residential customers. CoGoLink then declared bankruptcy defaulting on pre-paid contracts. I know of several people who have been burned, having paid in advance for 1 to 2 years (after having purchased fairly expensive equipment required for the service) as little as 6 months ago. Jsut due to dumb luck, my prepaid contract expired just before service was disconnected. However, having purchased the radio equipment (there was no rental option), I now have over $500 dollars worth of equipment that is not doing much good, though I may be able to use it with another service at some point in the future. I had planned to amortorize that cost over at least 3 years of service. Over the single year that I got, I eneded up with pretty expensive internet sevice this last year. I consider it unethical, and immoral on the parts of both CoGoLink and BBSC to be involved in this kind of transfer of assetts (but not liabilities) knowing full well such a transfer would make it physically impossible for CoGoLink to honor existing contracts and thus needing to declare bankruptcy. BBSC is not offered to residential customers, but I would highly suggest not doing business with them for any reason. You may also want to avoid doing business with CentrixNet Solutions and HomePipeline. These last two companies are run by the same people who ran CoGoLink. All three companies shared office space here in the Union Park Plaza. I have not investigated who all the officers of both companies are, but a Mac Adamson is/was the VP of CoGoLink. In the SL are, there are two other wireless options available. Sprintbroadband offers wirless service, but Sprint has been labeled as being anti-gun. Networld.com also offers wireless service. I had wireless service through CoGoLink for a year. Other than the unethical business practices on their part, I was happy with the service and can tell you that wireless is a very workable option for high speed internet access if DSL or Cable Modem is not available in your area. But again, I do reccommend you avoid any business dealings with BBSC, or anyone associated with CoGoLink, including CentrixNet Solutions and HomePipeline. Just my opinions. Charles. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Quick project Date: 30 Jul 2001 17:06:38 -0600 Angel Shamaya is asking for feedback from the pro-gun community with the following poll on https://www.keepandbeararms.com/default.asp Drop by and give him your opinion. Given the facts that alcohol prohibition was a complete flop, most gun-related deaths are drug related and the war on some drugs is being used to systematically strip you of your rights, do you support the decriminalization of illicit drugs? NO. Yes on "soft drugs" like marijuana. YES on all drugs. The prohibition is an unconstitutional farce and the bane of a free society. -