From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Spiral Jetty Location (and others) Date: 01 Dec 1999 00:33:07 -0700 kellycpi wrote: > > Gene... Great Job! I have wanted something like this for a long time, > especially being new to the Lake. > I am having trouble saving this to my hard drive. Any suggestions? Get a REAL computer. http://www.freebsd.org/ > P.S. You guys shouldn't have told Sandy Meeks it is a Microsoft format, he > won't use it! Sandy, do you need to borrow my StarOffice CD? It runs quite nicely on FreeBSD. Oh, dear, now I've let a whole HERD of cats out of the bag. ;^) -- Wes * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: (utah-sailing) Do you have a hitch on your boat? Date: 01 Dec 1999 18:19:38 -0700 http://www.bumperdumper.com/bumper2.htm ;^) * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darin Christensen" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Do you have a hitch on your boat? Date: 01 Dec 1999 20:10:39 -0700 Actually, I think it would work on my Santana 525 or a Santana 20, if you don't miond wet feet! *************************************************************** Darin Christensen owner Victory 21 #195 "Kristoffer's Son" and Santana 525 #61 (67134) "Abraxas" http://users.sisna.com/darinc ************************************************************* * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Rosell" Subject: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 03 Dec 1999 10:39:05 -0700 So, Does anyone out there still feel like doing chili on the first Sunday = before the winter solstice? In the past this has been called Bottom Of = The Pit. I'm planning on Dec. 19th unless I hear otherwise. Hope I'm not = there by myself. Bob * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eugene Morgan Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 03 Dec 1999 09:44:12 -0800 YOU WON"T BE!!!! Are you going to be on duty? -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:39 AM lists.xmission.com.utah-sailing@STATE-GATE; softweyr.com.wes@STATE-GATE So, Does anyone out there still feel like doing chili on the first Sunday before the winter solstice? In the past this has been called Bottom Of The Pit. I'm planning on Dec. 19th unless I hear otherwise. Hope I'm not there by myself. Bob * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Doubek Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 03 Dec 1999 11:05:44 -0700 I was planning on coming down on the 19th. It looks like Gene replied while I was typing this, so there's at least 3! :) Paul Bob Rosell wrote: > > So, Does anyone out there still feel like doing chili on the first Sunday before the winter solstice? In the past this has been called Bottom Of The Pit. I'm planning on Dec. 19th unless I hear otherwise. Hope I'm not there by myself. * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Swigart Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 03 Dec 1999 11:42:57 -0800 (PST) Count us in! Bob. Look forward to seeing you and others. Pat, Jackie, Zen, Rick, & Annie "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" "Taciturn" Slip 19, K-Dock THE GREAT SALT LAKE: http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144 _______________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bryant Pratt" Subject: (utah-sailing) NOAA Navigation Charts Date: 03 Dec 1999 16:17:04 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3DA9.D691A5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You may already know about this site, but I just found it and it's = pretty neat. mapfinder.nos.noaa.gov Through this site you can preview all the NOAA navigation charts. Looks = like a great tool for planning a sailing excursion. You can see what = charts are available for an area and preview each chart. To get charts = via the site, you have to order CD ROMs from Map Tech, Inc. But you = could get the chart numbers from the site and then order the individual = paper charts elsewhere (I don't know why you can't order paper charts = from NOAA through the site.) Bryant Pratt C-30 "Narragansett" GSL Marina ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3DA9.D691A5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You may already know = about this site,=20 but I just found it and it's pretty neat.
mapfinder.nos.noaa.gov<= /DIV>
Through this site you = can preview all=20 the NOAA navigation charts.  Looks like a great tool for planning a = sailing=20 excursion.  You can see what charts are available for an area and = preview=20 each chart.  To get charts via the site, you have to order CD ROMs = from Map=20 Tech, Inc.  But you could get the chart numbers from the site and = then=20 order the individual paper charts elsewhere (I don't know why you can't = order=20 paper charts from NOAA through the site.)
 
Bryant = Pratt
C-30=20 "Narragansett"
GSL = Marina
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF3DA9.D691A5E0-- * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 03 Dec 1999 22:52:03 -0700 Bob Rosell wrote: > > So, Does anyone out there still feel like doing chili on the first Sunday > before the winter solstice? In the past this has been called Bottom Of The > Pit. I'm planning on Dec. 19th unless I hear otherwise. Hope I'm not there > by myself. I'll be there, with crew both big and small in tow. The little one doesn't eat much, but the big ones more than make up for it. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Tostado Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) NOAA Navigation Charts Date: 04 Dec 1999 08:01:44 -0700 Regarding the NOAA map page, I can't seem to get a "find map" function. All I get is a syntax error flag. Got into the coastal photos, awesome. Rocky * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretha W Record" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 04 Dec 1999 09:31:56 -0700 Bob, The Records will be there so count on five more. Gretha * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TammySilve@aol.com Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 05 Dec 1999 22:51:15 EST The Silver's will be there too! Four more! See ya! * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan Kitts Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 06 Dec 1999 17:29:35 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF404A.26AD4D34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What time do you usually meet for chili? -----Original Message----- From: owner-utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Bob Rosell Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:39 AM To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com; lists.xmission.com.utah-sailing@STATE-GATE; softweyr.com.wes@STATE-GATE Subject: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? So, Does anyone out there still feel like doing chili on the first Sunday before the winter solstice? In the past this has been called Bottom Of The Pit. I'm planning on Dec. 19th unless I hear otherwise. Hope I'm not there by myself. Bob * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF404A.26AD4D34 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone?

What time do you usually meet for = chili?

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   = owner-utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-utah-= sailing@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Bob Rosell
      Sent:   Friday, December 03, 1999 10:39 AM
      To:     utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com; = lists.xmission.com.utah-sailing@STATE-GATE; = softweyr.com.wes@STATE-GATE
      Subject:       = (utah-sailing) Chili anyone?

      So,  Does anyone out there still = feel like doing chili on the first Sunday before the winter = solstice?  In the past this has been called Bottom Of The = Pit.  I'm planning on Dec. 19th unless I hear otherwise.  = Hope I'm not there by myself.

      Bob


      * To unsubscribe send email to = majordomo@lists.xmission.com with
      * the one line body of = "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF404A.26AD4D34-- * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Pearson Subject: (utah-sailing) vhf repair Date: 06 Dec 1999 18:06:26 -0700 I have an icom m-10 handheld vhf that just stopped working. Its never been dropped or been wet and the batteries are ok. Who can you recommend for repair? Thanks, Craig * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sam Wilkinson" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) vhf repair Date: 07 Dec 1999 14:32:02 -0700 call Icom at 425-454-8155 they may have a flat rate repair ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 6:06 PM > I have an icom m-10 handheld vhf that just stopped working. Its never been > dropped or been wet and the batteries are ok. Who can you recommend for > repair? > Thanks, Craig > > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: meek@eng.utah.edu (Sanford Meek) Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) vhf repair Date: 07 Dec 1999 14:34:06 -0700 At 18:06 12/6/99 -0700, Craig Pearson wrote: >I have an icom m-10 handheld vhf that just stopped working. Its never been >dropped or been wet and the batteries are ok. Who can you recommend for >repair? I would check with Com-pute. They're a ham radio store on State at about 7500 south. It's under new ownership so they may have changed the name. I'll find out tonight and get the exact address. Sandy Sanford Meek Dept. of Mechanical Engineering University of Utah meek@mech.utah.edu * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taciturn Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News Date: 07 Dec 1999 16:28:42 -0700 The Nature Conservancy does it again! SL Tribune article: http://www.sltrib.com:80/1999/dec/12071999/utah/3995.htm Its snowing! Lake Effect = quality of life. Pat "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" The Great Salt Lake: http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144 * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) GSL News Date: 07 Dec 1999 20:44:30 -0700 Taciturn wrote: > > The Nature Conservancy does it again! SL Tribune article: > http://www.sltrib.com:80/1999/dec/12071999/utah/3995.htm Great news, Pat. Is there any hope for them to snarf up a parcel blocking the Idiocy Highway? I'd contribute to that effort. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taciturn Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News Date: 08 Dec 1999 22:30:35 -0700 The Deseret News article with photo on the Nature Conservancy acquisition along GSL. Click here: http://deseretnews.com:80/dn/view/0,1249,145009566,00.html? Pat Swigart "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" The Great Salt Lake: http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144 * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Tostado Subject: (utah-sailing) 30' Boat cradle. Date: 09 Dec 1999 17:08:50 -0700 I have a 30' boat cradle for sale, cheap. Make an offer. This can be mounted atop a car trailer and used as such or, mount an axle and tongue and hitch on it and make it into a trailer. Rocky and Ray * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taciturn Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News Date: 12 Dec 1999 09:13:34 -0700 This just in on the Arm-and-a-Leg Highway (Deseret News): http://deseretnews.com:80/dn/view/0,1249,145010618,00.html? And the Utah Stormzz are coming (SL Tribune): http://www.sltrib.com:80/1999/dec/12121999/utah/5396.htm Save the Great Salt Lake, Pat "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taciturn Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News: Date: 13 Dec 1999 17:50:48 -0700 A wagon-train ran through it [Attn: History buffs, Captain Morgan, et. al.] Unmitigating circumstances. SL Tribune: http://www.sltrib.com:80/1999/dec/12131999/utah/5554.htm Pat Swigart "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" The Great Salt Lake: http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144 * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Rosell" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Chili anyone? Date: 14 Dec 1999 11:39:33 -0700 I WILL BE AT THE MARINA AROUND 10 A.M. THOUGHT WE'D START AROUND 10:30 OR = 11:00. PLEASE BRING SOME CHILI IF YOU CAN COOK. OF COURSE, I'LL BRING = SOME.=20 * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taciturn Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News Date: 15 Dec 1999 07:31:58 -0700 Peripheral to the Great Salt Lake, this story: Salt Lake Tribune. Toxic metal , mercury, accumulations affecting the areas populations? Source? Accumulating in wetlands? Pat Swigart "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores/9144 * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Rosell" Subject: (utah-sailing) Trailers in marina Date: 15 Dec 1999 13:01:01 -0700 I am sure you are aware that there are a lot of trailers parked across the = road from I dock. Unfortunately, we don't have the facilities for trailer = storage. Therefore, I must ask that the trailers be removed from the = marina. Aside from the fact that it is an "eye sore", it encourages = others to store trailers there and creates an ever growing problem. =20 Please spread the word that the trailers need to be removed as soon as = possible. =20 Thanks, Bob * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Trailers in marina Date: 15 Dec 1999 15:19:23 -0700 Bob Rosell wrote: > > I am sure you are aware that there are a lot of trailers parked across the > road from I dock. Unfortunately, we don't have the facilities for trailer > storage. Therefore, I must ask that the trailers be removed from the marina. > Aside from the fact that it is an "eye sore", it encourages others to store > trailers there and creates an ever growing problem. > > Please spread the word that the trailers need to be removed as soon as possible. Speaking of eyesores, will you be disposing of the old gangplanks, or should we just festoon them with lights and wreaths? ;^) (Thanks for the new gangways, they're MUCH better.) Another data point for you trailer storage backsliders: my trailer left and returned 6 or 7 times in 2 years of storage at the marina, without my knowlege or permission. I'm quite thankful that whoever borrowed it returned it each time, apparently without harm, since it would be quite expensive to replace it. Merry Christmas! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Doubek Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Trailers in marina Date: 15 Dec 1999 15:25:02 -0700 Sounds like a bonfire waiting to happen! :) Wes Peters wrote: > > > Speaking of eyesores, will you be disposing of the old gangplanks, or should > we just festoon them with lights and wreaths? ;^) (Thanks for the new > gangways, they're MUCH better.) * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: meek@eng.utah.edu (Sanford Meek) Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Trailers in marina Date: 15 Dec 1999 16:54:32 -0700 Bob; Could the parking lot area in front of the hose by the launching ramp get some no parking signs or signs stating it as a boat wash area or something. Several times I have retrieved my boat and tried to wash it off only to find someone parked in front of the hose. Not only is it difficult to wash the boat and trailer but I doubt that the owners of the cars like me hosing down their cars. It is usually folks going on the tour boat and they do not realize where they are parking and that they are blocking the wash-off area. It would also be nice to mark some of the center parking strips near the ramp for trailer (with cars) parking only. This would help people trying to park their trailers for the day and help relieve the trailer parking along the side of the parking surface in the gravel. Thanks; Sandy Sanford Meek Dept. of Mechanical Engineering University of Utah meek@mech.utah.edu * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger V Ostergaard Subject: (utah-sailing) New to the list Date: 15 Dec 1999 20:27:58 -0700 Hello everyone. I'm Roger and new to the list. I am in the process of building my first sail boat. I have choose to build the skipjack from Stevenson's projects out of California. It is 13'6" sloop looking craft. At the present time I am serving as a varsity scout coach, and as a project we will build 12' minicups (looks alot like the sunfish) for the boys. We plan to use the boats for our summer activities. Is there any place in the state that a scout group can spend a week, where we could have a main camp and sail during the days. Keep in mind that we all will be beginning sailors. Being scouts means that we are cheap, so we don't want to spend to much. Thanks all and Merry Christmas. Roger O. * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taciturn Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News Date: 16 Dec 1999 07:28:48 -0700 Catching Ancient Winds. Salt Lake Tribune: http://www.sltrib.com:80/1999/dec/12161999/science/6175.htm Pat "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Justin Lee Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) New to the list Date: 16 Dec 1999 08:04:45 -0700 There is a Boy Scout camp on the water at Bear Lake...have you looked into using that facility? I know that they have several Hobies, some small Monohull's & a Catalina 25 that is usually anchored out in front of the camp. > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger V Ostergaard [mailto:rodostergaard@juno.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 8:28 PM > To: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com > Subject: (utah-sailing) New to the list > > > Hello everyone. I'm Roger and new to the list. I am in the process of > building my first sail boat. I have choose to build the skipjack from > Stevenson's projects out of California. It is 13'6" sloop > looking craft. > At the present time I am serving as a varsity scout coach, and as a > project we will build 12' minicups (looks alot like the > sunfish) for the > boys. We plan to use the boats for our summer activities. Is there any > place in the state that a scout group can spend a week, where we could > have a main camp and sail during the days. Keep in mind that > we all will > be beginning sailors. Being scouts means that we are cheap, > so we don't > want to spend to much. Thanks all and Merry Christmas. Roger O. > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glen Martinsen Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) New to the list Date: 16 Dec 1999 08:14:02 -0700 When I was in scouts we would go up to Rockport. Fairly consistent wind and a nice campground site. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 8:28 PM Hello everyone. I'm Roger and new to the list. I am in the process of building my first sail boat. I have choose to build the skipjack from Stevenson's projects out of California. It is 13'6" sloop looking craft. At the present time I am serving as a varsity scout coach, and as a project we will build 12' minicups (looks alot like the sunfish) for the boys. We plan to use the boats for our summer activities. Is there any place in the state that a scout group can spend a week, where we could have a main camp and sail during the days. Keep in mind that we all will be beginning sailors. Being scouts means that we are cheap, so we don't want to spend to much. Thanks all and Merry Christmas. Roger O. * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Doubek Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) New to the list Date: 16 Dec 1999 08:49:40 -0700 Welcome to the list! I learned to sail on a Sailfish, which is the predecessor to the Sunfish; 12' long to the Sunfish's 14'. While it was a lot of fun, might I suggest a small dinghy like the Nutshell Pram? Jeff Thorpe with the GSLYC has a completed one you could look over and he could show you the plans. I'm not sure how the complexity compares to building a Minicup... it probably depends on whether you are putting in a cockpit or doing a flat plywood deck like my Sailfish (which was a kit my dad assembled in '58). There are already a couple Nutshells around, so there's potential for a nice little fleet. It can be rowed or sailed, and you can actually carry a little bit of gear. Also, if the Minicup is lateen rigged like the Sunfish, I think that makes it harder for new sailors to learn. The kids in the youth fleet seem to have a hard time reading when the luff breaks on the Sunfishes. Regardless of which boat you build, you might also want to look into bringing the scouts down for the Sailfest activities in the spring. They have some good introductory activities for the kids and some fun races. Good luck with your projects, Paul Roger V Ostergaard wrote: > > Hello everyone. I'm Roger and new to the list. I am in the process of > building my first sail boat. I have choose to build the skipjack from > Stevenson's projects out of California. It is 13'6" sloop looking craft. > At the present time I am serving as a varsity scout coach, and as a > project we will build 12' minicups (looks alot like the sunfish) for the > boys. We plan to use the boats for our summer activities. Is there any > place in the state that a scout group can spend a week, where we could > have a main camp and sail during the days. Keep in mind that we all will > be beginning sailors. Being scouts means that we are cheap, so we don't > want to spend to much. Thanks all and Merry Christmas. Roger O. * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) New to the list Date: 16 Dec 1999 09:29:46 -0700 Roger V Ostergaard wrote: > > Is there any > place in the state that a scout group can spend a week, where we could > have a main camp and sail during the days. Keep in mind that we all will > be beginning sailors. Being scouts means that we are cheap, so we don't > want to spend to much. Thanks all and Merry Christmas. Roger O. Definitely NOT the GSL Marina or Antelope Island Marina. Not that you wouldn't be welcome, but the mosquitos would eat you alive. We'd arrive Saturday morning to find empty tents with skin and bones left; the mozzies would have sucked everything else out of you. East Canyon is close, has a nice campground, and prett reliable winds. They do tend to get a little strong at times. Bear Lake sounds like a good bet. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Rosell" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Trailers in marina Date: 16 Dec 1999 09:32:07 -0700 Point well taken! Bob >>> Wes Peters 12/15 3:19 PM >>> Bob Rosell wrote: >=20 > I am sure you are aware that there are a lot of trailers parked across = the > road from I dock. Unfortunately, we don't have the facilities for = trailer > storage. Therefore, I must ask that the trailers be removed from the = marina.=20 > Aside from the fact that it is an "eye sore", it encourages others to = store > trailers there and creates an ever growing problem. >=20 > Please spread the word that the trailers need to be removed as soon as = possible. Speaking of eyesores, will you be disposing of the old gangplanks, or = should we just festoon them with lights and wreaths? ;^) (Thanks for the new gangways, they're MUCH better.) Another data point for you trailer storage backsliders: my trailer left=20 and returned 6 or 7 times in 2 years of storage at the marina, without=20 my knowlege or permission. I'm quite thankful that whoever borrowed it=20 returned it each time, apparently without harm, since it would be quite=20 expensive to replace it. Merry Christmas! --=20 "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters = Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.= com/=20 * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Swigart Subject: (utah-sailing) GSL News Date: 19 Dec 1999 10:07:13 -0700 This article about the Great Salt Lake ran in the Spokane News Dec. 19. Click here: http://www.spokane.net:80/news-story-body.asp?Date=121999&ID=s720302&cat= Pat Swigart and family, PS: See you all at the Bottom of the Pit, today!? Caution purists and Texans: my chili has beans and meat in it (but it has beer, too). Our motto: "Many people actually like it!" (Redeeming disclaimer: I never put ketchup on a hot dog, however.) My other motto: "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Shores9144 * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Oswald" Subject: (utah-sailing) Sailing in Portland Date: 19 Dec 1999 11:48:43 -0700 Does anyone know the best places near Portland Oregon to sail? I'm assuming the columbia is not too bad. What marinas are there in the area? I know this is off topic for "utah-sailing", but I may have a change of venue. Dave -- David Oswald | doswald@xmission.com A person who has had a bull by the tail once has learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't. -- Mark Twain * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BILHARRIS Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Sailing in Portland Date: 19 Dec 1999 12:06:01 -0700 Lake Oswego, Southwest of Portland about 10 miles. It's been over 20 years since I've lived there but I remember it as a nice place. David Oswald wrote: > Does anyone know the best places near Portland Oregon to sail? I'm > assuming the columbia is not too bad. What marinas are there in the > area? > > I know this is off topic for "utah-sailing", but I may have a change > of venue. > > Dave > -- > David Oswald | doswald@xmission.com > A person who has had a bull by the tail once has > learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't. > -- Mark Twain > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shane Pollard" Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Sailing in Portland Date: 19 Dec 1999 17:07:41 -0700 If you don't mind traveling a little farther south, Fern Ridge Reservoir in Eugene is fantastic. Its pretty small, but good sailing and really nice people. The Eugene Yacht Club can be found at http://members.aol.com/OregonSail/index.html The only problem is that they drain the lake in the winter to make sure they can hold the flood water in the spring. -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 11:49 AM Does anyone know the best places near Portland Oregon to sail? I'm assuming the columbia is not too bad. What marinas are there in the area? I know this is off topic for "utah-sailing", but I may have a change of venue. Dave -- David Oswald | doswald@xmission.com A person who has had a bull by the tail once has learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't. -- Mark Twain * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Sailing in Portland Date: 20 Dec 1999 00:21:00 -0700 David Oswald wrote: > > Does anyone know the best places near Portland Oregon to sail? I'm > assuming the columbia is not too bad. What marinas are there in the > area? > > I know this is off topic for "utah-sailing", but I may have a change > of venue. Depoe Bay on the coast. Quaint little town, lovely little harbor. You'll have to pay attention to the tide, and enter/exit with the tide or at slack tide. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RAY TOSTADO Subject: (utah-sailing) A foggy port. Date: 20 Dec 1999 08:31:23 +0000 Dave Os.. Oregon had for quite a time the most favorable tax assessment laws concerning power and sail vessels. It was so favorable that if you took all of the boats that resided in So. California waters bearing a COOS BAY ORE transom home port you would have to enlarge the bay by 1000 percent, perhaps even more. My one passage through Coos Bay was a brief foggy one. You might even look it up on the charts. I recall it as a picture perfect protected bay, but it was foggy, and who knows what lurks in the mist? You have received several warnings about tides and currents already, but I'll add one more comment along those lines. Many docking accommodations do not have a floating dock. There simply are pilings that you tie to and climb a ladder to the platform dock level. When the tide is out, you climb a high ladder; as well, when the tide is up you almost step off. Knowing how to tie up to these facilities so as to protect your ship is not any easy task. Don't be embarrassed to ask a local when fist learning. Above all, understand that in some of these coastal harbors tidal flows can get real severe and requires a good engine to work against them. 3 to 4 knots can be expected. 1 to 3 is normal. Some "choke points" can be as high as 5 to 7 knots! Again, check with the locals. Cheers, Rocky * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger V Ostergaard Subject: (utah-sailing) Merit badge counselor Date: 20 Dec 1999 23:43:56 -0700 Thanks Phil You might want to contact your local scout district and offer to give a short presentation in their round table (monthly scout masters meeting). That is good for developing interest. My scout group is in the Highland/ Alpine area, so it might be difficult to take you up on your offer on a weekly basis, although we could plan a weekend trip or two to the north to benefit from your expertise. From the following questions you can tell that I am new to sailing, but I am willing to learn. I could use the groups good advice in a few areas. One thing, it was suggested that we build a dingy type boat instead of the sunfish type. What is the advantages of the dingy type over the other? I have been seriously looking into that. Also, is the stitch and glue (epoxy) method of building easier or cheaper than the screw and glue? Merry Christmas All. Rog * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Merit badge counselor Date: 21 Dec 1999 00:01:00 -0700 Roger V Ostergaard wrote: > > From the following questions you can tell that I am new to sailing, but > I am willing to learn. I could use the groups good advice in a few areas. > One thing, it was suggested that we build a dingy type boat instead of > the sunfish type. What is the advantages of the dingy type over the > other? I have been seriously looking into that. More hull volume, which means you can carry more gear if you want to camp and sail. It also makes the boats drier -- less water coming over the sides -- when the waves get up a bit. > Also, is the stitch and glue (epoxy) method of building easier or > cheaper than the screw and glue? Merry Christmas All. Rog I don't know, I've not built a stitch and glue boat. It looks a little easier, but I'm not so sure about keeping the joints in place. Panels don't wiggle when you put a few hundred screws in them. ;^) I had a lovely book that contained 6 simple-to-build plywood boat designs about 20 years ago, including a lovely 14' skipjack. I haven't been able to find it for years, and have never seen it in a bookstore since I bought it. It's a shame, because that skipjack was a pretty little design, and looked quite straightforward to build. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RAY TOSTADO Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Merit badge counselor Date: 21 Dec 1999 07:19:40 +0000 --------------0CA0E3B88B306C182E387ADE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Roger V Ostergaard wrote: Rocky answered: > You might consider building a larger kit boat from the plans (over 40 years old) for what was called the Pacific Thunderbird Class. It is a 26' hard chimed fractional sloop with a trunk cabin and excellent performance both as a cruiser and club racer. I recall someone had the plans scaled down to around 18', without trunk cabin as a day sailor. The TBird fleet is very closely regulated with a non reefable main, one jib, and no spinnaker in class one design races. They may have made some changes in the last 20 years, the last time I read the class specs. Originally the plans were offered by US Plywood as a promotion for their plywood products. There is a newer fiberglass version on the market. Although the construction technique is not true cold molding it offers a very simple ply over frame hull, in this case secured with monel or S.S. screws Avoid brass screws, even copper is not as good as a good galvanized fastener. As to fastening wood sheathing over frames; the fasteners used depend on the designer's specs concerning whether the fasteners are indeed used as a structural tool. During cold mold construction there are no screws used to apply the veneer skins over the frame work. The strips are saturated in either epoxy (Georgeon Bros, 'sic?') technique, or as I once did to restore a 28' Yugoslavian VIKING by simply saturating the strips in water based glue; in either case the attachment is made with a hand or air driven staple gun. This is a demonstration where the veneer is glued in several thin layers (3) and when cured provides all the spec strength required. The staples are for all intents and purpose left to rot, since at this point they contribute nothing to the strength of the vessel. Care should be taken that if a natural wood finish is required the last layer of fasteners should be pulled out after the curing process has been completed. It is always recommended to use Stainless Steel staples. There are many books, some with free designs that endorse the epoxy cold mold technique. Above all, follow the specs set down by the designer. It is pure folly for anyone to imagine that a boat design is a casual event. I have seen home builders do changes they felt were within reason: Move the mast forward 3" to allow for a full galley. Place the rudder post further aft to give more room in the cockpit. are some of the typical mistakes people have made. Docksides are full of experts with nothing to lose by influencing you to follow their advice. Stick with the plans, to the exact specs. Cheers, Rocky --------------0CA0E3B88B306C182E387ADE Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
 
 
Roger V Ostergaard wrote: Rocky answered:
 
You might consider building a larger kit boat from the plans (over 40 years old) for what was called the Pacific Thunderbird Class. It is a 26' hard chimed fractional sloop with a trunk cabin and excellent performance both as a cruiser and club racer. I recall someone had the plans scaled down to around 18', without trunk cabin as a day sailor.

The TBird fleet is very closely regulated with a non reefable main, one jib, and no spinnaker in class one design races. They may have made some changes in the last 20 years, the last time I read the class specs.

Originally the plans were offered by US Plywood as a promotion for their plywood products. There is a newer fiberglass version on the market. Although the construction technique is not true cold molding it offers a very simple ply over frame hull, in this case secured with monel or S.S. screws  Avoid brass screws, even copper is not as good as a good galvanized fastener.

As to fastening wood sheathing over frames; the fasteners used depend on the designer's specs concerning whether the fasteners are indeed used as a structural tool. During cold mold construction there are no screws used to apply the veneer skins over the frame work. The strips are saturated in either epoxy (Georgeon Bros, 'sic?') technique, or as I once did to restore a 28' Yugoslavian VIKING by simply saturating the strips in water based glue; in either case the attachment is made with a hand or air driven staple gun.

This is a demonstration where the veneer is glued in several thin layers (3) and when cured provides all the spec strength required. The staples are for all intents and purpose left to rot, since at this point they contribute nothing to the strength of the vessel. Care should be taken that if a natural wood finish is required the last layer of fasteners should be pulled out after the curing process has been completed.

It is always recommended to use Stainless Steel staples. There are many books, some with free designs that endorse the epoxy cold mold technique.

Above all, follow the specs set down by the designer. It is pure folly for anyone to imagine that a boat design is a casual event. I have seen home builders do changes they felt were within reason: Move the mast forward 3" to allow for a full galley.  Place the rudder post further aft to give more room in the cockpit. are some of the typical mistakes people have made.

Docksides are full of experts with nothing to lose by influencing you to follow their advice. Stick with the plans, to the exact specs.

Cheers,

Rocky --------------0CA0E3B88B306C182E387ADE-- * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Doubek Subject: (utah-sailing) Re: Thunderbird Class Date: 21 Dec 1999 10:58:15 -0700 FWIW: There was a pretty good article in WoodenBoat this last summer on the Thunderbird class... made it tempting to build one! Might be a bit much for a first boat, though. It may have had some sources for plans, I don't recall. Paul RAY TOSTADO wrote: > > You might consider building a larger kit boat from the plans (over 40 > years old) for what was called the Pacific Thunderbird Class. It is a > 26' hard chimed fractional sloop with a trunk cabin and excellent > performance both as a cruiser and club racer. I recall someone had the > plans scaled down to around 18', without trunk cabin as a day sailor. > > The TBird fleet is very closely regulated with a non reefable main, > one jib, and no spinnaker in class one design races. They may have > made some changes in the last 20 years, the last time I read the class > specs. ...SNIP TO END... * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RAY TOSTADO Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Re: Thunderbird Class Date: 21 Dec 1999 12:34:09 +0000 What makes this design very interesting in today's high tech world is that given the new high strength veneers and glues, as well as fiberglass materials, including epoxy, the hull could be laid up with superb strength and a weight reduction of about 20% and greater. The fin keel was about as fin as can be imagined, a single flame cut iron "plate". That alone would improve the performance tremendously when one of those controversial "Petersen type" keels were attached. I recall that around 1975 or so a TBird won the overall PHRF division in the Ensenada Race. I know it was Oliver Macann, but it might not have been a TBird he sailed with. WOODEN BOAT MAGAZINE!!!! I haven't heard that title in 10 years. My first two boats were wood construction. A Yugoslavian Viking made of Med. Pine planking that was a treat for all the wood borers known to man, that's why I cold molded it. My next boat was an Alden designed 44' yawl, "Estrella". Wood boats are something special. But they require constant attention. My third boat was all f/g and came with a 2" fire hose for maintenance. Cheers, Rocky and his faithful scribe, Ray. * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: meek@eng.utah.edu (Sanford Meek) Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Merit badge counselor Date: 21 Dec 1999 14:11:49 -0700 At 23:43 12/20/99 -0700, Roger V Ostergaard wrote: > From the following questions you can tell that I am new to sailing, but >I am willing to learn. I could use the groups good advice in a few areas. >One thing, it was suggested that we build a dingy type boat instead of >the sunfish type. What is the advantages of the dingy type over the >other? I have been seriously looking into that. Dinghys are usually more stable (not always), can carry more (consider dinghy cruising), and are drier (usually). Depending on the boat, dinghys can have cat rigs (mainsail only), sloop rigs (add a jib), or even spinnakers. This means, as the kids learn to sail, they can learn more complex rigs. Sunfish are great boats, especially for beginners. Sandy Sanford Meek Dept. of Mechanical Engineering University of Utah meek@mech.utah.edu * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger V Ostergaard Date: 22 Dec 1999 22:02:48 -0700 Thanks for all the input. I have a few inquires into a number of designer about small dingy type boats. Hope to have things researched enough to get started on the boys boats by mid January. My skipjack is about 1/2 done. It is ending up to be 12 foot LOD, and about 4'10" wide. It is to the point where a few small time consuming things have to be done. I have also been wondering about what rig to put on it. I saw a pic of one that had a main with a jib. It looked good, but I am not sure what height the mast should be. I was thinking about 16' to 18' foot. Would that be to much for this sized boat? The plans call for the same thing that the sunfish uses which I wonder about, this being a larger boat. Rog * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RAY TOSTADO Subject: (utah-sailing) Re: Date: 23 Dec 1999 06:39:36 +0000 Build according to the plans. If you choose to enlarge the rig you must have the following conditions well in hand: You must be, nimble, quick, experienced, very lucky, and well insured. Rocky Roger V Ostergaard wrote: > Thanks for all the input. I have a few inquires into a number of designer > about small dingy type boats. Hope to have things researched enough to > get started on the boys boats by mid January. My skipjack is about 1/2 > done. It is ending up to be 12 foot LOD, and about 4'10" wide. It is to > the point where a few small time consuming things have to be done. I have > also been wondering about what rig to put on it. I saw a pic of one that > had a main with a jib. It looked good, but I am not sure what height the > mast should be. I was thinking about 16' to 18' foot. Would that be to > much for this sized boat? The plans call for the same thing that the > sunfish uses which I wonder about, this being a larger boat. > Rog > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Oswald" Subject: (utah-sailing) Merry Christmas Date: 26 Dec 1999 00:21:47 -0700 As Christmas day winds to an end I just wanted to thank everyone on the list for another great year, and wish you all a happy holiday season. The Utah-sailing emailing list currently has 96 members, and has been operational for a little over two years. Merry sailing! Dave -- David Oswald | doswald@xmission.com A person who has had a bull by the tail once has learned 60 or 70 times as much as one who hasn't. -- Mark Twain * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Doubek Subject: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North Arm Date: 27 Dec 1999 14:25:12 -0700 This is GSL related, not really sailing related. Does anybody know anything about a shrimp boat that flipped on the north arm? I didn't get all the details, but the story that was related to me is as follows: Three guys took one of the 40' boats out in a slight swell toward the end of last week. The boat had been modified with some sort of flying bridge up above the pilot house to better spot the shrimp from. There were no other shrimpers on the water because the egg was in solution from the wave action. Apparently, the boat was unstable in the swell due to the height of the flying bridge and capsized. All the radio gear was submerged, so these guys were on their own. I don't know what kind of protective gear they were wearing, but they must have had something because it doesn't sound like any of them died! Two guys climbed back up on the overturned boat. One guy swam to shore (5 mls out?) and walked to camp which was deserted due to the poor shrimping conditions. He was hypothermic, but took a speed boat and rescued the other two. The boat may still be out there, and with a 15' construction on top, it's probably pretty firmly anchored in the mud! It would be interesting to hear whether this is an accurate version of the story, if anyone else knows anything about it. It also underscores Ray's advice against modifying a boat unless you know what the hell you're doing! Hope y'all had a great Christmas and have a great New Year. My sympathies go out to all you techies that will be at work ringing in the new year (as will I). Paul * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taciturn Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North Arm Date: 27 Dec 1999 14:38:23 -0700 Quite a story, Paul. Nope, just checked, nothing has come over the wires yet from the local Newspapers. It looks like the Utah-Sailing E-Mail Newsgroup has scooped them again. Call the Newspapers -- they give bonuses for such leads! I'll post it when it shows up! Pat "Why bring weather you would rather be in out of up for?" Hoping all had/having a great holiday! Paul Doubek wrote: > > This is GSL related, not really sailing related. Does anybody know > anything about a shrimp boat that flipped on the north arm? I didn't get > all the details, but the story that was related to me is as follows: > > Three guys took one of the 40' boats out in a slight swell toward the > end of last week. The boat had been modified with some sort of flying > bridge up above the pilot house to better spot the shrimp from. There > were no other shrimpers on the water because the egg was in solution > from the wave action. Apparently, the boat was unstable in the swell due > to the height of the flying bridge and capsized. All the radio gear was > submerged, so these guys were on their own. I don't know what kind of > protective gear they were wearing, but they must have had something > because it doesn't sound like any of them died! Two guys climbed back up > on the overturned boat. One guy swam to shore (5 mls out?) and walked to > camp which was deserted due to the poor shrimping conditions. He was > hypothermic, but took a speed boat and rescued the other two. The boat > may still be out there, and with a 15' construction on top, it's > probably pretty firmly anchored in the mud! > > It would be interesting to hear whether this is an accurate version of > the story, if anyone else knows anything about it. It also underscores > Ray's advice against modifying a boat unless you know what the hell > you're doing! > > Hope y'all had a great Christmas and have a great New Year. My > sympathies go out to all you techies that will be at work ringing in the > new year (as will I). > > Paul > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Tostado Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North Arm Date: 27 Dec 1999 16:02:57 -0800 I regret the advice found support in real life so suddenly. Maybe a crow's nest with a light hydraulic steering station, and one guy? Not more than 300# at the max? OK, you take 300# and hoist it up a mast to about 20' above water line. And remember, the boat in question has no keel plane to dampen roll moments. I'd guess it would go over after about 15 to 20 degrees. The most costly boo-boo I have direct knowledge of was a friend who bought into a-in-the-works 55' salmon fishing trawler being built by a very bright and competent welder/fabricator/boiler maker, etc., type. He did beautiful work and was a very sound and reasonable person. Except, he had never followed a DeFever design, or any ship design, before and mistook the measurements as open to interpretation. All of his professional life making changes on drawings was a call of insight and sound improvements. He never even considered the effect that moving a 8k# live bait well aft 6", or something of that sort, would totally destroy the roll stability. He made several changes, none of which were conferred with the DeFever design group. My buddy put up $25k of his life savings to become a salmon fisherman; a partner in the boat. Why not? A pair of hard working guys can make $50k to $75k a week for two weeks of season. What was the outcome of the changes? The ship rolled uncontrollably in moderate seas. In heavy seas it became nearly impossible to hold on to the companionway ladders leading from the deck to the upper wheel station. The sudden and violent whipping would rip their hands from the pipe railings. It was total disaster; even atop that it was the worst salmon run in history, (25 years ago or so). 70% of the fleet stayed in port that year. Even if there had been a decent run the word got out amongst the free-agent fishermen and no one would ship out with them. Such a deal. No fish and a totally worthless boat. My buddy bailed out and took the loss. Later he heard that the DeFever people when being made aware of the changes made told the builder that had they been into a good season and filled their hold with salmon they most likely would have rolled in anything but a flat calm sea. Rule of thumb #2, from the text book of facts: A 2k square foot spinnaker sail in 20 knot wind weighs 2k # ! ! ! ! ! Like the guys say, you only learn by taking the bull by the tail. ------- End of forwarded message ------- * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Philip McDonald" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North Arm Date: 28 Dec 1999 07:48:36 -0700 Fairly accurate account according to what I heard. Boat was drifting to shore but bridge structure snagged bottom about 1 mile out. They had been on hull 3 - 4 hrs without survival suits and captain (100 ton license lobster boy from back east) tied a couple of fenders together and kicked to shore. 8 mile walk to camp with 4 coyotes doggin him all the way. No one at the camp so he roared out in a safe-boat to pick up his buddies. Boat has been recovered but bridge structure had been torn off. As per other response boat was quite top heavy with up to 14 bags of egg on deck in addition to flying bridge. If you haven't read "The Perfect Storm" check it out. Disaster in the book was also connected to boat modifications that may have rendered it unstable. * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Philip McDonald" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North Arm Date: 28 Dec 1999 07:51:38 -0700 One other note. Turn over time was less than 3 seconds and they were lucky to get out of the wheel house. psmcd * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eugene Morgan Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North Arm Date: 28 Dec 1999 08:17:02 -0800 It's amazing the skipper was able to get to shore given the current water temperature. My estimation is that a 1-mile swim in nearly saturated brine would have taken a good 30 to 60 minutes plus the time they were in the water after the catastrophe. My gauge measured the water temperature in the south arm at 42 degrees last Sunday. However, I can't testify as to the accuracy of my gauge. I've been considering a design change on Highwire. I'd like to put a crow's nest (remember Water World) at the second spreader with rat lines so I could climb up. I think it might only add 200 pounds plus my meager bulk. What ya think Ray, screw on an extra 1000 pound bulb at the bottom of my keel?? ;-) -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 7:52 AM One other note. Turn over time was less than 3 seconds and they were lucky to get out of the wheel house. psmcd * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Oswald Subject: (utah-sailing) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:11:15 -0700 Date: 28 Dec 1999 11:09:34 -0700 __________Quoted message follows_____________ Arm Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:17:02 -0800 Send reply to: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com I've been considering a design change on Highwire. I'd like to put a crow's nest (remember Water World) at the second spreader with rat lines so I could climb up. I think it might only add 200 pounds plus my meager bulk. What ya think Ray, screw on an extra 1000 pound bulb at the bottom of my keel?? ;-) ___________End Quoted Message____________ Would there be a compensation made to your PHRF? * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bryant Pratt" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North Arm Date: 28 Dec 1999 12:00:03 -0700 Current lake water temperature at Hat Island weather station is about 36°F., per Wasatch Front mesomap... http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/Saltlake/current/meso.wfrnt.html Bry Pratt * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:11:15 -0700 Date: 28 Dec 1999 14:05:56 -0700 David Oswald wrote: > > Eugene Morgan wrote: > > > > I've been considering a design change on Highwire. I'd like to put a > > crow's nest (remember Water World) at the second spreader with rat lines > > so I could climb up. I think it might only add 200 pounds plus my > > meager > > bulk. What ya think Ray, screw on an extra 1000 pound bulb at the > > bottom > > of my keel?? ;-) > > Would there be a compensation made to your PHRF? Yes: Penalize him 9,000 seconds per mile for ugliness. No, the boat modifications, not the Commodore himself! Get your minds out of the gutter! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eugene Morgan Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:11:15 -0700 Date: 28 Dec 1999 16:57:38 -0800 Why of course, it would go from it's current 105 to 327 ;-) -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:10 AM __________Quoted message follows_____________ Arm Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:17:02 -0800 Send reply to: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com I've been considering a design change on Highwire. I'd like to put a crow's nest (remember Water World) at the second spreader with rat lines so I could climb up. I think it might only add 200 pounds plus my meager bulk. What ya think Ray, screw on an extra 1000 pound bulb at the bottom of my keel?? ;-) ___________End Quoted Message____________ Would there be a compensation made to your PHRF? * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Tostado Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:11:15 -0700 Date: 28 Dec 1999 20:58:48 -0800 No, Gene. Put the 1000# in your pocket and climb the rig. Rocky David Oswald wrote: > __________Quoted message follows_____________ > > From: Eugene Morgan > To: "'utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com'" > Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North > Arm > Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:17:02 -0800 > Send reply to: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com > > > > I've been considering a design change on Highwire. I'd like to put a > crow's nest (remember Water World) at the second spreader with rat lines > so I could climb up. I think it might only add 200 pounds plus my > meager > bulk. What ya think Ray, screw on an extra 1000 pound bulb at the > bottom > of my keel?? ;-) > > ___________End Quoted Message____________ > > Would there be a compensation made to your PHRF? > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Tostado Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:11:15 -0700 Date: 28 Dec 1999 21:01:29 -0800 Weaving? Wes Peters wrote: > David Oswald wrote: > > > > Eugene Morgan wrote: > > > > > > I've been considering a design change on Highwire. I'd like to put a > > > crow's nest (remember Water World) at the second spreader with rat lines > > > so I could climb up. I think it might only add 200 pounds plus my > > > meager > > > bulk. What ya think Ray, screw on an extra 1000 pound bulb at the > > > bottom > > > of my keel?? ;-) > > > > Would there be a compensation made to your PHRF? > > Yes: Penalize him 9,000 seconds per mile for ugliness. > > No, the boat modifications, not the Commodore himself! > Get your minds out of the gutter! > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Tostado Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:11:15 -0700 Date: 28 Dec 1999 21:02:32 -0800 105? why is Runaway rated at 99? Eugene Morgan wrote: > Why of course, it would go from it's current 105 to 327 ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Oswald [mailto:DavidO@ZCMI.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:10 AM > To: 'utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: (utah-sailing) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:11:15 -0700 > > __________Quoted message follows_____________ > > From: Eugene Morgan > To: "'utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com'" > Subject: RE: (utah-sailing) Shrimpers Flip on the North > Arm > Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:17:02 -0800 > Send reply to: utah-sailing@lists.xmission.com > > > > I've been considering a design change on Highwire. I'd like to put a > crow's nest (remember Water World) at the second spreader with rat lines > so I could climb up. I think it might only add 200 pounds plus my > meager > bulk. What ya think Ray, screw on an extra 1000 pound bulb at the > bottom > of my keel?? ;-) > > ___________End Quoted Message____________ > > Would there be a compensation made to your PHRF? > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with > * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Tostado Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:11:15 -0700 Date: 28 Dec 1999 21:12:02 -0800 Opps, thats right. You made Rich Osborn race chairman. But at 327, that means Tim Adams would be 10,642. Oh well, (an Olsen 30 race slogan) Weather report: San Pedro California. Tuesday/ 12/27/99 fair. 78 degrees, low 54, s/sw/ at 8 knots. More of the same throughout week. Cheers, Rocky (ps) no leash laws at Cabrillo Marina. Goodbye, Gene, XXX * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: meek@eng.utah.edu (Sanford Meek) Subject: (utah-sailing) questionable crew? Date: 30 Dec 1999 09:20:40 -0700 Would you go sailing with these people? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-12/24/113l-122499-idx.html Sandy Sanford Meek Dept. of Mechanical Engineering University of Utah meek@mech.utah.edu * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) questionable crew? Date: 30 Dec 1999 22:43:46 -0700 Sanford Meek wrote: > > Would you go sailing with these people? > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-12/24/113l-122499-idx.html "I'm disappointed that they want to look at the deficiencies in us as a crew in operating this boat. Frankly, I don't know too many people who have the [nerve] to go out there, get stuck 50, 60 miles offshore in the middle of the storm with nothing, absolutely nothing but the boat floating beneath you." What an idiot. The saddest part is he seems determined to kill his wife and children as part of his suicide. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JEANNE M. O'BRIEN" Subject: Re: (utah-sailing) questionable crew? Date: 31 Dec 1999 14:17:57 -0700 I can't help but think of the film "Mosquito Coast" after reading this. -----Original Message----- >Would you go sailing with these people? > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-12/24/113l-122499-idx.html > >Sandy > > >Sanford Meek >Dept. of Mechanical Engineering >University of Utah >meek@mech.utah.edu > > > >* To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with >* the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes). > * To unsubscribe send email to majordomo@lists.xmission.com with * the one line body of "unsubscribe utah-sailing" (no quotes).